The most important difference between Dealing 20 vs gaining 20 is when it comes to multiplayer. You can never be "eliminated" in this game. On the other hand in magic, you can be targeted early and watch your friends play forever.
Also it is inherently a better experience to gain something vs losing something. It is also less directly aggressive. Your not harming someone else your just helping yourself.
Don’t forget that taking damage in MTG can be blocked while your opponent questing (atm), cannot be “blocked” or even lessened. They can only lose lore AFTER their turn is over. Which means if they already reached 20 by questing, it’s over.
They really nailed the "accessibility with depth" that they were aiming for. It is the first TCG that I have gotten my wife to play, and I am already see the possibilities with depth in future sets. Hoping they add more card draw mechanics!
awesome overview, thanks guys!! I'm so excited for Lorcana!!. I have a 5 yr old and a 4yr old who talk about "daddy's card games" all the time(I play a lot, been playing since like '95/'96) and I'm wicked excited to get my kids and hopefully my wife into this game!!
Same. My son is 7 and loves collecting Pokémon cards. I like kitchen table MtG, although I do not buy modern Magic products due to WotC milking formats, jacking up prices, ramming Commander into non-EDH formats, and the dog***t card quality. C'mon! One job to do. One job: produce good quality cards. Pokémon is light years ahead on the card quality. Lorcana appears to have a good mix of gameplay, theme and art style - even as someone who has almost zero Disney interest. However, my son, his cousin and his niece will greatly enjoy this product for the card collection and it's Disney. And there is a good game as well. Bonus points for limited formats - draft and sealed - appearing possible. Love the included booster in the starter decks: first hit is free, then you have to pay
the big thing is that this game isn't disney itself but another company paying for the license so the game has to satisfy disney enough in terms of profit and also justify the licensing fees that ravensburger is paying to make it. So honestly seeing disney's recent behaviour they could easily toss it out on the street at any point if it isn't explosively popular past the usual release hype.
What blocks me is that I left Magic because of its "pay to win" infernal spiral! So I don't want to fall in another game were I will have to buy boosters for years!
It's more pay to play (competitively). I feel you because I used to play Modern, them MH2 wrecked every reason why I played Modern (looking at you, Fury).
A lot of negative from the comments so far, but I think it's cool. My wife and kids are more likely to play this with me than other TCGs and there is enough new mechanics to make it interesting to build decks around. I am also all for a "big" company making a high quality game with great art, good card stock, and the ability to support long-term and high quality design. Most of the "landfill" CCGs people are talking about were missing one or more of the aforementioned components.
Zee's talking point at 19:54 - 20:32 really hits the nail on the head for making new and interesting games. A resource-heavy org spent lots of time and money of making a new game, and somehow reverted to making yet another TCG with COMBAT as a mechanic.
... and yet I don't recall him or anyone else at the Dice Tower having any trouble accepting the COMBAT mechanics in "Sorceror's Arena", but for some reason, they didn't like it "thematically" in this game? That sounds like a tcg vs boardgame bias, almost.
@@edwardlasso3092 I can definitely see your criticism. I do think however they were struck by it more, because it just seems like a mechanic that is pretty derivative of CCGs as a whole.
@@successfulgeek Not sure what that has to do with the issue at hand. We are told we are "illumineers" in the world of this game. We are creating art and lore. We are not characters in conflict in a Disney movie.
@@revimfadli4666 Not exactly, you cannot mix cards from the different characters (the mixed hero deck in Star Wars Villainous being sort of an exception), so no LCG model
Well I like the fact that the intro decks are good but I think they may fell more competitive than they are because there is not metagame yet, once the game advances more we can see better how good these decks really are, but it is a good start.
The only thing that has me considering this is that my daughter loves playing games with me and is very much in the Disney phase of her life. She’s a bit young to play this one yet, but I doubt she’s too far off. Either way, it’s definitely a little difficult to take the dive into a CCG style game.
Okay, that singing a song mechanic might turn this into a buy for me. My little girl spends all her time singing disney songs, that might be too cute for me to ignore lol.
My girls are definitely too young right now, but I'm thinking it will be fun to get in on the ground floor of something similar to the Pokemon TCG. That way, when they are older and want to play whatever the latest expansion is, I'll have a good collection of the original stuff. Of course, I'm into these games too so it's not like I won't enjoy the wait for them to join me. I don't know, it could flop or not get as big, but I think it'll be a fun ride. I had a blast with Pokemon when it came out and it's a pipe dream of mine to give that kind of experience to my kids someday. I feel like these kinds of big games don't come around too often.
@@danielklinger9053 Yeah, sharing these games with kids can be really great. My daughter is too young to play too competitively on her own, but I recently started buying her Pokemon cards (which I never had played myself) and she is OBSESSED. Every single day she takes her collection out and organizes her cards on the table and just loves to look at them, even when we aren’t playing the game. I’d imagine that she’d have just as great a time, if not better, with this Disney game, since she’s already been a fan of all of those characters for a few years now.
I’m genuinely not trying to be a hater, and this does seem fun. But with so many other amazing games coming out, I’m kind of confused about the insane hype this game has been basking in. With some games it seems earned, but with this I just don’t see it Edit: Actually nevermind. It’s a TCG and also it’s Disney. I get it now hahahaha
Scar comes back in a volcano as a lava formation in the Disney Junior show The Lion Guard. I only know this because my kids watched the show on Disney+.
its got elements from all the main tcgs , its very close to magic , but then u have life counters (pokemon) only tapped cards can be attacked (digimon) and the cards are flipped as mana (bakugan) , i like thats its not colors tho for mana so u can use any character in ur deck it seems
You're darn right I'll buy it just for the artwork. I almost bought the original Marvel Legendary just for all of those cool looking superhero cards, and I'm a much bigger fan of Disney than Marvel. Seeing as I moved three time zones to Orlando to work for and live near Disney World, I expect my fandom to drive me to spend way too much money on this, and associated card sleeves, and I might never even play it. 😜
The design being a bit deeper than people originally expected is a nice surprise. And while I'm not the biggest Disney fan, I like that the IP for this product is going to be very cohesive and immersive. MTG has been weakening their IP over the last couple years and with Disney having such a huge library it's safe to say it'd be a long time before we saw a "Warhammer 40k Mickey" set, for instance. :D
@@ezes.5125 Well I think it's like Tom alluded to, but Mickey is the figurehead so it makes sense in the base set to have these variants. And they don't have "multicolor" cards yet right? I think they'll be able to have fun variants while still being in Disney's wheelhouse.
I can agree on that. Part of why I got out of Magic a few years back was the dilution of the theme and the way they started changing the sales model. Really felt like MTG decided to throw away immersion for the chance to make some extra bucks on printing other characters and universes right into the game.
I've been playing this a lot with my kids and I'm very impressed with the game. There's a lot of luck involved in what you draw, but each starter deck has its own interesting strategies.
This is my first TCG since MTG back in middle school. Honestly, I'm quite surprised at how much my wife and I enjoy this game. Looking forward to the next set. First video of yours I'm catching, btw. Great stuff. Subbed!
So pumped for this game. Been playing with proxies and having a blast with my kids and family. Not a normal TCG player (boardgamer instead) so this is right up my alley with an attractive theme, great artwork and cool mechanics for both head-to-head and multiplayer...I could care less if they are not innovative because I wouldn't really know otherwise since I don't play other TCG's.
When Zee talked about the songs I immediately thought of the inventions and hexes from Doomtown Reloaded. Not exactly the same, but similar. Those are cards that you play, but to use them you need a character with the apropiate keyword and you need to make an RPG-like check to see if you succeed.
Zee doesn’t want there to be fighting in a card game with Disney characters ? I couldn’t think of a worse critique. What would be the point of the game? Solving problems?
I'm very excited about this. The only issue I see here is that it seems to me that it's not too easy to stop the other from getting up the lore. I haven't played it yet but what I've seen I think it would need more control elements (well then it might turn too toxic especially for children)
Landfills are literally filled with games that all thought they could either beat or stand beside Magic. For every Pokemon or Flesh and Blood, we have a Spellfire or countless other obscure games that have come and gone over the years. I mean at this point in life, I cannot see myself getting into another TCG. Even with the income to get the cards I want, I just don't see the joy. Between the scalpers and the individual card markets, I cannot reconcile the fun I had playing Magic back in the 90s, with TCGs in the 2020s.
Yea, there are those of us for which Magic it is just too much. I think Disney will make it fly. We'll if they improve the draw ability. I will give you the if they can't really get a good game play and just try to survive on IP alone.
Well the big 3 had either popular IP or first-mover advantage, while FnB stood on better giant shoulders than "cloning magic complete with the land system"
The landfills are full of all those 'contractual obligations' that WotC, Score, and the other 'wannabe' big players cranked out for X-Men, Transformers, IP-flavor of the moment - to only see them crank out a Base Set, 2 expansions, and then die.
As expected, the comments are 75% people just hating on CCGs in general. I'm not trying to say that they are an amazing game model, but I think they have loads of positives. Growing up with Magic and Pokemon, yeah people spent their teenager cash on packs and cards online, but I think that's just a product of being a teenager . . . I bet you spent money on other dumb stuff too. As a grad student I went back and played magic again and loved it in a different way, following set reveals and deckbuilding off cheap singles. I no longer play them, but can honestly says CCG games, tournaments, and communities are some of the best parts of game stores (And what keeps them afloat). Yes I think it is dumb to gamble on packs, but I really don't see the same benefits come about form LCGs. I also bet that most people in a CCG spend about $100-400 a year on their game of choice, about as much as an all in kickstarter pledge of your favorite game. . .
@@chuckm1961I don't even play them anymore, but I probably am. Maybe I'm just lit by the BGG comments. It just seems odd to me with a culture applauding the huge "shelfie" of games to look down on people who spend money on a CCG.
Seems like a solid mix of Magic the Gathering and the LOTR LCG. LOTR LCG has the questing mechanic where you have to designate some characters to quest/explore to complete a quest, while others are attacking/defending enemies. The fact that all of the art is completely new and gorgeous at that, is definitely a bonus for Disney fans (and non-Disney fans, honestly). Looking forward to trying this out when it's available to the masses and not selling online for the inflated MSRP as it is now.
The only thing it has in common with LOTR LCG is that attacking in Lorcana is called "questing", it doesn't seem to have anything in common with questing in LOTR LCG.
Zee hit the exact two issues I have looking from the outside and not having tried the game yet. What is the purpose of the colors, and why am I attacking at the end of the day. They could have gone in such a cooler direction. I also am not a fan of mixing Disney movies. I want to build an Aladdin deck, or a The Sword in the Stone deck, but they've mixed so many different movies into the set that that isn't possible at this time. I'm sure it will be more dooable in the future, but will the deck feel cohesive if I do an all Aladdin deck? Can I do an all good Aladdin deck and an all evil Aladdin deck? These are the current mysteries for me with this game.
They have a way to "evolve" any version of your Aladin to a stronger version and they said they are gonna work to create synergies between similar types of cards (like a princess deck, etc). Pretty sure there are gonna be plenty of benefits to playing a deck from the same series of movies (like a Lion King deck, Aladin deck, etc) - since you want lots of versions of your Aladin if you plan to evolve him so you make sure you draw him, etc. But even when you put together a deck from just one movie I'm sure it will just be much more competitive and cohesive if you throw some other cards in there form other movies here and there. It's just gonna be the nature of the game as the card pool expands - themed decks are always a thing in TCG's.
Well, the cards are divided more so by theme and function than franchise. The green beast cards and the gray ones function VERY different from each other and would not flow well together in a deck if you were to go by franchise.
Lorcana gets credits from me for art and graphic design. It's fine if you just want to collect artworks. Gameplay, theme (besides card-intrinsic theme) and overall card balance are a bit weak, though. I mean it's playable but if you come for the gameplay, there are better alternatives. For example, I would suggest to try out the upcoming Star Wars Unlimited TCG instead. That one is quite amazing gameplay-wise with constant back and forth, better card draw, and overall more interesting decisions. The art might feel a bit oldschool but you get used to it.
I feel like characters have to challenge(fight). That’s better than kill spell, kill spell, repeated lol. If not your just building a massive board until someone hits 20 lore
Aside from the obvious problem with TCGs, I feel like my main issue with this game is that it feels too much like you are forced to largely ignore your opponent and just race for 20 lore as quickly as possible. I've had numerous games where it really felt like the right move was to hold off for a turn and just build my board up and then react to what my opponent does the following turn, something that you would do regularly in Magic and other TCGs, and yet that seems like it is never an option in Lorcana. Perhaps that is the goal of the game, that you are almost playing just on your own with minimal interaction with your opponent. I'm sure for some people that is an upside. But, for me, that's hard to get used to when so many other card games have so much interaction between players.
My wife is a big Disney fan, however she is not a big CCG fan. So my plan is to wait until stock comes back in and buy 1 set of each of the starter sets and go from there. This looks like a simple card game to play and I'm excited to try it.
If you're looking for actual play may I suggest the 'Instinct TCG and collectables' TH-cam Channel. As they upload play videos almost every day. And as an added advantage they look like they've been playing Lorcana for years. Along with knowing the lingo and lore of the game.
I hear everything that's being said and yet... it's a Disney themed game with a collectible element. They knew what they were doing here and regardless of the fact that you can play it with just a basic set it just doesn't sit right with me that they produced another CCG with kids in mind.
@@thedicetower And yet the age rating is 8+. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against companies making money but I'm really not sure how we can speak about Lorcana without at least bringing up that fact. Pokemon have been getting away with it for decades in my opinion and here we are with another.
Fantastic review gents! You’ve done really well in identifying positive and negatives (associated with the game) without being zealously fanatical or vitriolic. The biggest concern that I have for Lorcana is that this is a licensed game and consequently reflects this in its MSRP. For example Flesh and Blood is a 24 pack booster box that has an MSRP of 109 USD. Lorcana, similarly, is a 24 pack booster box @ 145 USD. My other concern rests with the unresolved Upper Deck lawsuit.
The problem with these collectable cardgames lies in the fact that you will never be able to win against someone who bought 7 boosterpacs. Therefore it's a never ending moneygrab. Internet is swimming in clips of what the best cards are and wich pack to buy. On the plusside: the cards look very pretty.
@@insanegammer109 which is basically the standard in Japanese TCGs ever since Duel Masters came out, unlike Western TCGs which seem to be stuck with "either dedicated resource cards with all the drawbacks, or none at all" until recently
I don't understand why everyone just gleams over the fact that this is a form of gambling that is very much geared towards children. Spend money for a chance to get a better card.... gambling...
@@RhinoBarbarian all the more reason to bring it up in my opinion. This is becoming the norm. It's unacceptable. It's becoming illegal in some countries to have loot boxes in video games because it is predatory towards users and seen as gambling for underaged children. I personally believe that TCGs should be under the same gabbling rules as scratchy tickets etc with age restrictions put on purchasing them.
@@whataboutki The difference between video games and actual physical games like this one is the kids they are targeted at, aren't going to have the money to buy this unless the parent gives it to them./they earn it.
@whataboutki No, they really don't. Doesn't work the same way in games as it does with physical products. All you have to do is put in your card once in game services and it stays. You need the card each and every time for physical purchases.
If this had a digital version in a similar way to Pokemon (you can scan a code to add cards to the digital version) then I'd probably look more into this. As it stands though, it might be a pass for now.
What made magic the gathering so special was the top down design nature. So when you see a giant dragon, obviously it flies and does a ton of damage, a moat will prevent you from taking damage, a creature with defender can't attack etc. This isn't the case in Lorcana. Why does Moana's grandmother ramp you up? Because that's just the art the decided to put on that card.
None of the art that I saw in this review looked different from the art I've seen in movies; so they "fooled" me if this is supposed to all be "unique" new art. The colors seem to lack a theme, and the gameplay seems tired. Even if I wasn't over and done with Disney, I think this would still be a hard-pass for me.
The Inkwell system is neat...but not as neat as the Memory/Materialization system in Grand Archive. The two systems are similar but the one in Grand Archive is a bit more interesting overall. I feel like the decision to use a count-up VP system may ultimately prove to be a poor one in that as compared to games that use a count-down to zero life system it places a heavier limitation on how cards can interact with said system. That said, Grand Archive uses a count-up-to-fatal-damage-on-your-hero system and it works well enough there so I guess it will come down to how many options the game provides in terms of manipulating your own and the opponents Lore track... On the subject of combat, the ECG Mage Noir basically skips having creature combat and I think it was a mistake. Like it or not with regards to thematic dissonance, the reality is that a combat system provides another interaction point in the game that cards can work with. If a game removes it, it needs to replace it with something that works otherwise the game ends up feeling rather flat like Mage Noir.
Well, hopefully it has legs. Yu Gi Oh, Pokémon, and M:tG will likely stay top 3, but there is room in the market for something different. But honestly, there doesn't seem to be anything different about this game.
@@tzarthomas7787 FAB is one of the first truly original TCGs I've played in a long time and it rules. Lightseekers (goodnight sweet prince) had so much potential as well, I loved that the game was about timing out your card rotations several turns in advance and then letting your board resolve like an auto-battler before you play new cards for the turn. It's refreshing to come into a new TCG and have to learn a completely new strategy and mindset instead of "oh this is just Magic but control decks are green instead of blue."
Many comments here seem to think if Lorcana isn’t a top 3 CCG/TCG, then it is worthless. I wonder if these feelings extend to other types of games? “If this worker placement game isn’t knocking one of the top three worker placement games of the pedestal, it is a failure!” Do you hear how silly that sounds?
Been seeing this a ton in boardgames, video games, and movies lately. Most people seem to think if it isn't a 10, it is a 0. And that's really annoying to me.
I agree that it seems weird to think this way. However, I think many people have gotten their hopes dashed by CCGs that fail after a few years. So it becomes increasingly hard to play the game even if you love it, because 1. It's no longer produced and 2. tournament or community play is no longer supported at local game stores. We can still really enjoy a game that doesn't break the CCG dominance, but the fact is we won't really be able to play much of it as time goes on. . .
@@sarumon17 Why can’t you play it if they stop making future series? Again, think about it in terms of board games. Brass Birmingham is #1 on BGG and that came out in 2018 and there is no new content being released for it.
@@ImaginEric I think if you and you friend have cards, you absolutely can/should. But I think the sense of community around a CCG is fundamentally different than board games. You are looking for a hub (game store) where new people are messing with new decks and play testing different deck constructions. I just know multiple people with a bunch of star wars destiny cards that they can't find anyone to play with. Basically my argument is not whether you can play them or not, but that the community surrounding CCG is way more integral to how they are played than a board game. Tom talks a lot about "overpowered" and I'm sure there are those cult fans that collaborate and play, but the bottom line is they are not at your local game store.
Because TCG's require a ton of time and financial investment. If worker placement games cost me $1,000 each, then I for sure wouldn't be buying a dozen different ones of them either.
The reason the characters are attacking each other is because they're not the actual characters. You, as the illumineer, are summoning a version of the character (that isn't actually the character) and they're helping you to bring back the stories (or whatever).
Wow, this just looks like a ripoff of Magic the Gathering, with minor minor changes. I can't understand the hype for this game unless you're a very big Disney fan...
What a astoundingly lazy copy of MTG. They didnt even come up with decent terminology. Ink drying? Exert? Lore? Its incoherent. Lets fact it...this is a straight cash grab. Disney has become a pathetic corporation who just shovels out trash and depends on its super fans to gobble it up without a thought. Its so sad what Disney has become & how disrespectfully it treats its fans. They didnt even pick a different number of points to play to....unbelievable.
Just a personal opinion, but I've always had a problem with mechanics where you have to burn a card with a function to use for "mana". I spend too much time burning really good cards just to get cheaper cost cards onto the field. There are two or three other games with this same mechanic. Not saying this is a bad game, just saying I personally don't care for that style of mana generation.
The theme is there?! I thought none of the characters ever feel like their characters. There is very little flavour in this game other than calling some spells are songs
Two thing I don’t like about this game, 1- drawing only 1 card and It’s should’ve been two cards like starwars ultimate 2- the lore target is very low which lacks the depth of the game, If the target was 30 lore it will be better m other than that the game has a huge potential
I like that the goal is set to 20. People have things to do, and 20 makes it so that the game doesn't go on for hours. If you want to keep playing, then start another game. There are 6 different ink types to explore, and as a new/casual TCG player the idea of experimenting and building a strong deck is interesting. It might seem trivial now, but this is only the first chapter with more cards planned to release at the end of this year/beginning of '24.
Zee: "this borrows a little bit from a lot of different games" Upper Deck: "and a lot from one" Ravensburger: *whisper* "don't mention Ikorr don't mention Ikorr don't mention Ikorr don't men..."
I love trading card games/LCGs. Been playing Pokémon since release, Magic here and there and have been sinking my teeth into Marvel Champions. As much as I love Disney...I'm gonna stay far away from this. Not to say it doesn't look fun, because it certainly does. It's just I can't afford yet another card game to collect
This game does not have a lazy theme. Many characters have relevant effects/stats, all the art is original, and every card has a little flavor text on the bottom.
TCG and CCG are widely synonym as far as I know. TCG got a bad image and then they tried to establish a new term for the same thing to circumvent but it's the same thing.
There have been CCGs I really loved, but I am not a "CCG guy". I didn't like Keyforge. I like Pokémon as a card game. All of that given, I think the hype is way off the charts for this, but I'm not even sure what to base an opinion on. It looks OK. I wouldn't spend 14 hours of my life getting ahold of it :), but that's a personal choice.
This game is specifically for intense Disney fans with little ccg/lcg experience. Practically no innovation and the card draw and top decking aspect is terrible. imo 5/10
I was curious, and a tad hopeful for this one - I know lots of TCG players and thought Disney might try something new - going on adventures, completing quests, maybe even fix the problems of the almost-excellent MLP CCG. There's so much that could be done with all that Disney has, especially in terms of worlds and IPs. Oh...so...more of the same. Ah well. Epic is still the champ, and doesn't look like it will be toppled anytime soon. If I'm going to fight, I'd rather fight with a T-Rex and griffons and dragons and robots and a zombie apocalypse than with...Abu, I guess.
From what I'm hearing, it does look like a watered down version of Magic? I can't speak for the comparisons with other card games, but other than the songs (a very nice thematic touch, I'll agree) there isn't much in the way of game mechanisms representative of the game's core appeal. The mostly unoriginal gameplay will not give this the legs to remain relevant IMO--the nostalgic artwork might though, which I don't think is reason enough to spend the money. Point is, there is already a superior Disney game to this in every way; as much if not more thematically coherent, and that is called Villainous. Yes, it is not a collectible deck builder (already a plus in my book, but to each their own), but it is more focused, with no fluff, with core mechanisms tied to the character's backstory in unique ways that shape win conditions and gameplay, with inter-player conflict that is not so simple as "I tap and attack you", while also being optional (which I think is what Zee was alluding to here, in terms of using worn TCG mechanisms instead of exploring options). I will concede that replayability is the one aspect that will always be better in CCGs, so I give it that, but alas, that is the nature of finite/fixed boardgames vs ever expanding, never-ending deck-building systems. And right now Lorcana is more welcoming, but I see it eventually pushing people away as they grow in card quantity, complexity, and price (as the objectively better cards hit the third-party markets), much like Magic did. My 2 cents. Love you guysssss
One thing to consider…the MTG theme does not appeal to everyone, and the MTG scene at many FLGS is not very friendly to women. There is a large market that is not being served by MTG, and this game might fill that void
Zee: "we still couldn't find mechanical ways which don't devolve into I'm Attacking You" Ravensburger: "don't blame us, blame Upper Deck... oh wait..." If there is any merit to the lawsuit, based on the ruleset, if Upper Deck plasterers a fantasy/scifi/steampunk or whatever theme Ikor will be on it, it would fail with or without Lorcana, except for a forum somewhere who members lament that "no one understands how good Ikor is" Disney theme has given this ruleset a chance and it's clearly not aiming to be an MtG competitor, it's looking at pokemon and similar to steal market share. Wait... does yo-gi-oh still exist?
I COMPLETELY agree with Zee's point about how attacking breaks immersion. Like, why can't it be about something else? It's such a missed opportunity to redefine the genre a bit. Also, the multiple pieces of artwork are clearly in response to Marvel Snap's success with its variants. If this was delivered in an LCG/deckbuilder format instead of a CCG that's designed to suck money out of you, I'd be interested, but I'll pass on this.
@Draffut2003 True, but to some extent, Disney knew about all of it at once, right (I'm sure there are different divisions)? So yes, it probably wasn't a direct inspiration, but maybe Disney had plans for alt artwork to be a driving component of its monetary strategy for both.
Looking forward to this from a collector and fan viewpoint, with the hopes that it is a quality game I can easily play with other people. Like how people enjoy the idea of Villainous. On a scale of 1-10 a 5 is good. Wish schools hadn't ingrained the idea of 7 as the fail mark. 7 really just meant you had enough mastery to advance to another level. Even a rating of 2-4 means some people are going to enjoy it.
Another soulless TCG, from an equally soulless company. Had the same hatred towards Keyforge, which is literally "microtransaction-lootboxes-the-game." I won't be surprised if this winds up in a landfill somewhere. But, hey if it breaks the mold and goes toe-to-toe with MTG, Pokemon, or Yugioh, I will be impressed. I just don't see it, and maybe it could've been "non-collectible," but I see the outpouring of folks dumping cash into this from the onset, and maybe that was the intention afterall.
Disney already has a head to head game that is not collectible in "Sorceror's Arena", so it makes sense for them to not make yet another product that will compete against their own.
@@chauveet It's sad that you feel the need to defend an exploitative business model that sh**s on the idea of fair competition and even playfields. If it was just about being a fun game, it wouldn't use a garbage CCG business model.
@@lastburning I am not specifically defending any business model...I am pointing out that you came to make such a negative, antagonistic, and critical post. Instead of spreading joy, you choose to spread your teenage angst.
Gameplay is not original or creative enough. It's probably not in the top 20 TCGs ever created in terms of gameplay, and they are just banking on the Disney brand and on speculating investors. It's not a complete throwaway that's barely a game just to sell Disney, but it's also not a very good creative original game idea. They wanted to force a Disney TCG, and they created a good system, they didn't have a GREAT system to paste Disney on top or, better yet, an AWESOME concept that could only work for Disney theme. I get that reviewers have to be nice and not give a bad score, since it's a very hype product from a big company and they don't want bad blood, but this seems to have no staying power, be super boring, have no cohesive themes and tribes/colors, get into topdeck mode way too often and just overall not be very engaging. In a few months they will play it with the enthusiasm of a 6/10 game. And the artwork is a bit too samey everywhere for my liking. I get that it's one consistent style and they follow it, but they could've spiced it up.
Meh, I’ll stick with Magic the Gathering. Is this different enough (to a MtG fan)? Maybe. A little? It clearly is vying for the same popularity/profit that MtG has had for years and years. I just don’t think I need to go investing in an all new game when I have an excellent one already that has the history, community and selection that this doesn’t (yet, I’m sure). If you’ve never played a game like MtG then this is probably the perfect game for you to get started in the pure chaos/money sink that is a CCG. And it doesn’t have demons and rituals and all the more sinister things that MtG can have, so it probably appeals to families and Disney fanatics (I’m not a Disney fanboy). Gonna be hard to get? Probably. Gonna be “expensive”? Probably. Welcome to CCGs, ha! 😜
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![Top 10 Rules Questions Answered [Lorcana TFC]](/img/n.gif)
The most important difference between Dealing 20 vs gaining 20 is when it comes to multiplayer. You can never be "eliminated" in this game. On the other hand in magic, you can be targeted early and watch your friends play forever.
That's a very good point.
Also it is inherently a better experience to gain something vs losing something. It is also less directly aggressive. Your not harming someone else your just helping yourself.
Don’t forget that taking damage in MTG can be blocked while your opponent questing (atm), cannot be “blocked” or even lessened. They can only lose lore AFTER their turn is over. Which means if they already reached 20 by questing, it’s over.
This is fair, however most of these types of games are really designed for 2 players. If one gets eliminated, the other wins.
@@Alittlefruitgoesalongway Magic's most popular format is multiplayer and in many ways the entire game has pivoted to support it.
I love that the starters come with a booster
The ultimate goal is a lot like Keyforge. You're not really trying to damage the other player, it's a race to get the most points which I really like.
They really nailed the "accessibility with depth" that they were aiming for. It is the first TCG that I have gotten my wife to play, and I am already see the possibilities with depth in future sets. Hoping they add more card draw mechanics!
Same. My wife will finally play with me!! Lol
awesome overview, thanks guys!!
I'm so excited for Lorcana!!. I have a 5 yr old and a 4yr old who talk about "daddy's card games" all the time(I play a lot, been playing since like '95/'96) and I'm wicked excited to get my kids and hopefully my wife into this game!!
Same. My son is 7 and loves collecting Pokémon cards.
I like kitchen table MtG, although I do not buy modern Magic products due to WotC milking formats, jacking up prices, ramming Commander into non-EDH formats, and the dog***t card quality.
C'mon! One job to do. One job: produce good quality cards.
Pokémon is light years ahead on the card quality.
Lorcana appears to have a good mix of gameplay, theme and art style - even as someone who has almost zero Disney interest.
However, my son, his cousin and his niece will greatly enjoy this product for the card collection and it's Disney. And there is a good game as well.
Bonus points for limited formats - draft and sealed - appearing possible.
Love the included booster in the starter decks: first hit is free, then you have to pay
the big thing is that this game isn't disney itself but another company paying for the license so the game has to satisfy disney enough in terms of profit and also justify the licensing fees that ravensburger is paying to make it. So honestly seeing disney's recent behaviour they could easily toss it out on the street at any point if it isn't explosively popular past the usual release hype.
I almost wrote the same. Disney will likely drop this after 1-2 years, because it won't make the same amount of profit as MTG for Hasbro of the Coast.
What blocks me is that I left Magic because of its "pay to win" infernal spiral! So I don't want to fall in another game were I will have to buy boosters for years!
It's more pay to play (competitively). I feel you because I used to play Modern, them MH2 wrecked every reason why I played Modern (looking at you, Fury).
A lot of negative from the comments so far, but I think it's cool. My wife and kids are more likely to play this with me than other TCGs and there is enough new mechanics to make it interesting to build decks around. I am also all for a "big" company making a high quality game with great art, good card stock, and the ability to support long-term and high quality design. Most of the "landfill" CCGs people are talking about were missing one or more of the aforementioned components.
Zee's talking point at 19:54 - 20:32 really hits the nail on the head for making new and interesting games. A resource-heavy org spent lots of time and money of making a new game, and somehow reverted to making yet another TCG with COMBAT as a mechanic.
... and yet I don't recall him or anyone else at the Dice Tower having any trouble accepting the COMBAT mechanics in "Sorceror's Arena", but for some reason, they didn't like it "thematically" in this game? That sounds like a tcg vs boardgame bias, almost.
@@edwardlasso3092 I can definitely see your criticism. I do think however they were struck by it more, because it just seems like a mechanic that is pretty derivative of CCGs as a whole.
Is there a Disney movie that doesn't have some combat in it?
@@successfulgeek Dumbo (well, the pink elephants), Cinderella, probably Lady and Tramp? Just looking at a list.
@@successfulgeek Not sure what that has to do with the issue at hand. We are told we are "illumineers" in the world of this game. We are creating art and lore. We are not characters in conflict in a Disney movie.
If this was an LCG or a deck building game, I'd be all over it. But I will not buy TCGs ever.
Guess they already have Villanous for that
Why noooot? We just want, 83% of your money, your first born, and your eternal soul. People these days. So stingy...
@@revimfadli4666 Not exactly, you cannot mix cards from the different characters (the mixed hero deck in Star Wars Villainous being sort of an exception), so no LCG model
One thing I’d mention too if you aren’t playing super competitive is you can play this multiplayer which imo is more fun than the 2 player game.
I wonder if that's gonna be another case of Commander lol
if they want to avoid screwing this up, it would be in the best interest to never change the formula.
it works and that is all they should care about.
Got a spot in a sort of "learn to play league" starting Friday and can't wait to try it out.
I always trust Roy’s opinion; he is Candid-every-day
Well I like the fact that the intro decks are good but I think they may fell more competitive than they are because there is not metagame yet, once the game advances more we can see better how good these decks really are, but it is a good start.
The lore builing instead of life taking is giving me KeyForge key forging Aember tapping vibes.
Yep, it's the same shit all over again.
The only thing that has me considering this is that my daughter loves playing games with me and is very much in the Disney phase of her life. She’s a bit young to play this one yet, but I doubt she’s too far off. Either way, it’s definitely a little difficult to take the dive into a CCG style game.
Okay, that singing a song mechanic might turn this into a buy for me. My little girl spends all her time singing disney songs, that might be too cute for me to ignore lol.
Well, at least the super ultra chocolatey fudge wowee-zowee mega awesome rare versions of cards will keep the price of the regular cards down.
My girls are definitely too young right now, but I'm thinking it will be fun to get in on the ground floor of something similar to the Pokemon TCG. That way, when they are older and want to play whatever the latest expansion is, I'll have a good collection of the original stuff. Of course, I'm into these games too so it's not like I won't enjoy the wait for them to join me. I don't know, it could flop or not get as big, but I think it'll be a fun ride. I had a blast with Pokemon when it came out and it's a pipe dream of mine to give that kind of experience to my kids someday. I feel like these kinds of big games don't come around too often.
@@danielklinger9053 Yeah, sharing these games with kids can be really great. My daughter is too young to play too competitively on her own, but I recently started buying her Pokemon cards (which I never had played myself) and she is OBSESSED. Every single day she takes her collection out and organizes her cards on the table and just loves to look at them, even when we aren’t playing the game. I’d imagine that she’d have just as great a time, if not better, with this Disney game, since she’s already been a fan of all of those characters for a few years now.
Including a booster pack with the starter decks is s great idea.
I’m genuinely not trying to be a hater, and this does seem fun.
But with so many other amazing games coming out, I’m kind of confused about the insane hype this game has been basking in. With some games it seems earned, but with this I just don’t see it
Edit: Actually nevermind. It’s a TCG and also it’s Disney. I get it now hahahaha
I've seen so many TCG's get crushed my MTG and Pokemon. Not sure if this can survive, but it will be nice to get some fresh blood out there.
I really don't need Disney(-controlled) 'fresh blood' in TCGs!
Speaking about fresh blood, that reminded me of Flesh and Blood
Pokemon survives on theme due to the show and not as a game. Lorcana will survive on theme alone as well.
Nobody ever remembers Yu-Gi-Oh.
@@Gamerdude770Kinda funny, given it's so popular XD
Scar comes back in a volcano as a lava formation in the Disney Junior show The Lion Guard.
I only know this because my kids watched the show on Disney+.
27:05 let's go Zee! Wooooooo so hyped for this now.
its got elements from all the main tcgs , its very close to magic , but then u have life counters (pokemon) only tapped cards can be attacked (digimon) and the cards are flipped as mana (bakugan) , i like thats its not colors tho for mana so u can use any character in ur deck it seems
You're darn right I'll buy it just for the artwork. I almost bought the original Marvel Legendary just for all of those cool looking superhero cards, and I'm a much bigger fan of Disney than Marvel. Seeing as I moved three time zones to Orlando to work for and live near Disney World, I expect my fandom to drive me to spend way too much money on this, and associated card sleeves, and I might never even play it. 😜
Very useful video!
When talking about "those nuggets" I noticed it was like you were all avoiding saying Lorcana encaptured the LORE 😅😂
Never mentioned price?
The design being a bit deeper than people originally expected is a nice surprise. And while I'm not the biggest Disney fan, I like that the IP for this product is going to be very cohesive and immersive. MTG has been weakening their IP over the last couple years and with Disney having such a huge library it's safe to say it'd be a long time before we saw a "Warhammer 40k Mickey" set, for instance. :D
@@ezes.5125 Well I think it's like Tom alluded to, but Mickey is the figurehead so it makes sense in the base set to have these variants. And they don't have "multicolor" cards yet right? I think they'll be able to have fun variants while still being in Disney's wheelhouse.
I can agree on that. Part of why I got out of Magic a few years back was the dilution of the theme and the way they started changing the sales model. Really felt like MTG decided to throw away immersion for the chance to make some extra bucks on printing other characters and universes right into the game.
No it's neither cohesive nor immersive.
No, it's not deep at all. Pokemon TCG is deeper.
I've been playing this a lot with my kids and I'm very impressed with the game. There's a lot of luck involved in what you draw, but each starter deck has its own interesting strategies.
Disney Keyforge with a splash of Magic.
Since it doesn't have the algorithmically generated decks angle, I'd say it's Magic with a splash of KeyForge!
Keyforge's whole premise is having a truly unique deck that no one else has. This game does not fit that at all.
@@AdamRasmussenXP But the core goal is to generate points not to do damage so it's more like Keyforge
60 card deck; 20pts to win; tapping cards; hmmmm, where have I heard this before . . .
This is my first TCG since MTG back in middle school. Honestly, I'm quite surprised at how much my wife and I enjoy this game. Looking forward to the next set.
First video of yours I'm catching, btw. Great stuff. Subbed!
So pumped for this game. Been playing with proxies and having a blast with my kids and family. Not a normal TCG player (boardgamer instead) so this is right up my alley with an attractive theme, great artwork and cool mechanics for both head-to-head and multiplayer...I could care less if they are not innovative because I wouldn't really know otherwise since I don't play other TCG's.
When Zee talked about the songs I immediately thought of the inventions and hexes from Doomtown Reloaded. Not exactly the same, but similar. Those are cards that you play, but to use them you need a character with the apropiate keyword and you need to make an RPG-like check to see if you succeed.
Zee doesn’t want there to be fighting in a card game with Disney characters ? I couldn’t think of a worse critique. What would be the point of the game? Solving problems?
I'm very excited about this. The only issue I see here is that it seems to me that it's not too easy to stop the other from getting up the lore. I haven't played it yet but what I've seen I think it would need more control elements (well then it might turn too toxic especially for children)
Looking forward to trying this one casually!
It looks really good and it seams fun, but i am a former addict that has gone cold turkey from tcg for quite some time and i want to keep it that way
Landfills are literally filled with games that all thought they could either beat or stand beside Magic. For every Pokemon or Flesh and Blood, we have a Spellfire or countless other obscure games that have come and gone over the years. I mean at this point in life, I cannot see myself getting into another TCG. Even with the income to get the cards I want, I just don't see the joy. Between the scalpers and the individual card markets, I cannot reconcile the fun I had playing Magic back in the 90s, with TCGs in the 2020s.
Yea, there are those of us for which Magic it is just too much. I think Disney will make it fly. We'll if they improve the draw ability. I will give you the if they can't really get a good game play and just try to survive on IP alone.
I still miss Magi-Nation.
Well the big 3 had either popular IP or first-mover advantage, while FnB stood on better giant shoulders than "cloning magic complete with the land system"
@@Draffut2003 - me too - but to some degree, 14 regions was just too much (60 card expansions barely offered anything to move the metagame forward).
The landfills are full of all those 'contractual obligations' that WotC, Score, and the other 'wannabe' big players cranked out for X-Men, Transformers, IP-flavor of the moment - to only see them crank out a Base Set, 2 expansions, and then die.
As expected, the comments are 75% people just hating on CCGs in general. I'm not trying to say that they are an amazing game model, but I think they have loads of positives. Growing up with Magic and Pokemon, yeah people spent their teenager cash on packs and cards online, but I think that's just a product of being a teenager . . . I bet you spent money on other dumb stuff too. As a grad student I went back and played magic again and loved it in a different way, following set reveals and deckbuilding off cheap singles. I no longer play them, but can honestly says CCG games, tournaments, and communities are some of the best parts of game stores (And what keeps them afloat).
Yes I think it is dumb to gamble on packs, but I really don't see the same benefits come about form LCGs. I also bet that most people in a CCG spend about $100-400 a year on their game of choice, about as much as an all in kickstarter pledge of your favorite game. . .
I just read every comment, and it's more like 10%. You seem really defensive about your perceived need to defend CCG's ....
@@chuckm1961I don't even play them anymore, but I probably am. Maybe I'm just lit by the BGG comments. It just seems odd to me with a culture applauding the huge "shelfie" of games to look down on people who spend money on a CCG.
CCGs should be constantly and loudly criticized all the time until they die out. They sh*t on the idea of fair competition and even playfields.
Seems like a solid mix of Magic the Gathering and the LOTR LCG. LOTR LCG has the questing mechanic where you have to designate some characters to quest/explore to complete a quest, while others are attacking/defending enemies. The fact that all of the art is completely new and gorgeous at that, is definitely a bonus for Disney fans (and non-Disney fans, honestly). Looking forward to trying this out when it's available to the masses and not selling online for the inflated MSRP as it is now.
The only thing it has in common with LOTR LCG is that attacking in Lorcana is called "questing", it doesn't seem to have anything in common with questing in LOTR LCG.
Zee hit the exact two issues I have looking from the outside and not having tried the game yet. What is the purpose of the colors, and why am I attacking at the end of the day. They could have gone in such a cooler direction.
I also am not a fan of mixing Disney movies. I want to build an Aladdin deck, or a The Sword in the Stone deck, but they've mixed so many different movies into the set that that isn't possible at this time. I'm sure it will be more dooable in the future, but will the deck feel cohesive if I do an all Aladdin deck? Can I do an all good Aladdin deck and an all evil Aladdin deck? These are the current mysteries for me with this game.
They have a way to "evolve" any version of your Aladin to a stronger version and they said they are gonna work to create synergies between similar types of cards (like a princess deck, etc).
Pretty sure there are gonna be plenty of benefits to playing a deck from the same series of movies (like a Lion King deck, Aladin deck, etc) - since you want lots of versions of your Aladin if you plan to evolve him so you make sure you draw him, etc.
But even when you put together a deck from just one movie I'm sure it will just be much more competitive and cohesive if you throw some other cards in there form other movies here and there. It's just gonna be the nature of the game as the card pool expands - themed decks are always a thing in TCG's.
Well, the cards are divided more so by theme and function than franchise. The green beast cards and the gray ones function VERY different from each other and would not flow well together in a deck if you were to go by franchise.
Lorcana gets credits from me for art and graphic design. It's fine if you just want to collect artworks. Gameplay, theme (besides card-intrinsic theme) and overall card balance are a bit weak, though. I mean it's playable but if you come for the gameplay, there are better alternatives. For example, I would suggest to try out the upcoming Star Wars Unlimited TCG instead. That one is quite amazing gameplay-wise with constant back and forth, better card draw, and overall more interesting decisions. The art might feel a bit oldschool but you get used to it.
I feel like characters have to challenge(fight). That’s better than kill spell, kill spell, repeated lol. If not your just building a massive board until someone hits 20 lore
Aside from the obvious problem with TCGs, I feel like my main issue with this game is that it feels too much like you are forced to largely ignore your opponent and just race for 20 lore as quickly as possible.
I've had numerous games where it really felt like the right move was to hold off for a turn and just build my board up and then react to what my opponent does the following turn, something that you would do regularly in Magic and other TCGs, and yet that seems like it is never an option in Lorcana.
Perhaps that is the goal of the game, that you are almost playing just on your own with minimal interaction with your opponent. I'm sure for some people that is an upside. But, for me, that's hard to get used to when so many other card games have so much interaction between players.
My wife is a big Disney fan, however she is not a big CCG fan. So my plan is to wait until stock comes back in and buy 1 set of each of the starter sets and go from there. This looks like a simple card game to play and I'm excited to try it.
If you're looking for actual play may I suggest the 'Instinct TCG and collectables' TH-cam Channel. As they upload play videos almost every day. And as an added advantage they look like they've been playing Lorcana for years. Along with knowing the lingo and lore of the game.
Mickey The Gathering.
Great video. I am curious about this game and you helped alot!
Collectible games are a big turn off. Pass
Tom never looks comfortable on that love seat.
I hear everything that's being said and yet... it's a Disney themed game with a collectible element. They knew what they were doing here and regardless of the fact that you can play it with just a basic set it just doesn't sit right with me that they produced another CCG with kids in mind.
Yeah, I think the target is Disney adults with money.
@@thedicetower And yet the age rating is 8+. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against companies making money but I'm really not sure how we can speak about Lorcana without at least bringing up that fact. Pokemon have been getting away with it for decades in my opinion and here we are with another.
6:05 definitely not "tapped" tho 🤭
Fantastic review gents! You’ve done really well in identifying positive and negatives (associated with the game) without being zealously fanatical or vitriolic. The biggest concern that I have for Lorcana is that this is a licensed game and consequently reflects this in its MSRP. For example Flesh and Blood is a 24 pack booster box that has an MSRP of 109 USD. Lorcana, similarly, is a 24 pack booster box @ 145 USD. My other concern rests with the unresolved Upper Deck lawsuit.
The game seems quite overpriced. Boxes are more expensive and have less cards. The amount Tom showed is an ENTIRE booster box? Yikes.
The problem with these collectable cardgames lies in the fact that you will never be able to win against someone who bought 7 boosterpacs. Therefore it's a never ending moneygrab. Internet is swimming in clips of what the best cards are and wich pack to buy. On the plusside: the cards look very pretty.
Interesting that it's 60 cards and none of them are mana/resource cards since every card acts as an ink card if you choose.
Not all cards can be used in the inkwell
@@truthxbexheard1 good to know, but any inkwell cards are still multi purpose, so there are no dedicated land cards increasing deck card count.
only cards that have the golden burst around its cost can be converted into ink.
@@insanegammer109 which is basically the standard in Japanese TCGs ever since Duel Masters came out, unlike Western TCGs which seem to be stuck with "either dedicated resource cards with all the drawbacks, or none at all" until recently
Sounds like the No Land Magic variant to me.
I don't understand why everyone just gleams over the fact that this is a form of gambling that is very much geared towards children. Spend money for a chance to get a better card.... gambling...
Because that's par for the course. Pokemon is the same. Yugioh is the same.
@@RhinoBarbarian all the more reason to bring it up in my opinion. This is becoming the norm. It's unacceptable. It's becoming illegal in some countries to have loot boxes in video games because it is predatory towards users and seen as gambling for underaged children. I personally believe that TCGs should be under the same gabbling rules as scratchy tickets etc with age restrictions put on purchasing them.
@@whataboutki
The difference between video games and actual physical games like this one is the kids they are targeted at, aren't going to have the money to buy this unless the parent gives it to them./they earn it.
@@RhinoBarbarian if children have access to credit cards to buy within video games they have access to buy cards online also.
@whataboutki
No, they really don't. Doesn't work the same way in games as it does with physical products. All you have to do is put in your card once in game services and it stays. You need the card each and every time for physical purchases.
Seems fine and will be gone in a few years, like most CCGs.
If this had a digital version in a similar way to Pokemon (you can scan a code to add cards to the digital version) then I'd probably look more into this. As it stands though, it might be a pass for now.
What made magic the gathering so special was the top down design nature. So when you see a giant dragon, obviously it flies and does a ton of damage, a moat will prevent you from taking damage, a creature with defender can't attack etc. This isn't the case in Lorcana. Why does Moana's grandmother ramp you up? Because that's just the art the decided to put on that card.
To be fair, folks who watched the movie will know why. When the grandma passes away in the movie, she still helps Moana from the other realm.
@@Turtlewax88 I've seen the movie and that didn't even occur to me. It's quite the stretch and it's certainly not intuitive.
None of the art that I saw in this review looked different from the art I've seen in movies; so they "fooled" me if this is supposed to all be "unique" new art. The colors seem to lack a theme, and the gameplay seems tired. Even if I wasn't over and done with Disney, I think this would still be a hard-pass for me.
Isn’t this game almost exactly like wow tcg that died a couple of years ago?
The Inkwell system is neat...but not as neat as the Memory/Materialization system in Grand Archive. The two systems are similar but the one in Grand Archive is a bit more interesting overall.
I feel like the decision to use a count-up VP system may ultimately prove to be a poor one in that as compared to games that use a count-down to zero life system it places a heavier limitation on how cards can interact with said system. That said, Grand Archive uses a count-up-to-fatal-damage-on-your-hero system and it works well enough there so I guess it will come down to how many options the game provides in terms of manipulating your own and the opponents Lore track...
On the subject of combat, the ECG Mage Noir basically skips having creature combat and I think it was a mistake. Like it or not with regards to thematic dissonance, the reality is that a combat system provides another interaction point in the game that cards can work with. If a game removes it, it needs to replace it with something that works otherwise the game ends up feeling rather flat like Mage Noir.
Well, hopefully it has legs. Yu Gi Oh, Pokémon, and M:tG will likely stay top 3, but there is room in the market for something different. But honestly, there doesn't seem to be anything different about this game.
the theme alone will make this rival all of the top ccgs
I don't see a tournament scene developing personally. Theme is more casual oriented.
Flesh and Blood is growing really fast
@@tzarthomas7787 FAB is one of the first truly original TCGs I've played in a long time and it rules. Lightseekers (goodnight sweet prince) had so much potential as well, I loved that the game was about timing out your card rotations several turns in advance and then letting your board resolve like an auto-battler before you play new cards for the turn. It's refreshing to come into a new TCG and have to learn a completely new strategy and mindset instead of "oh this is just Magic but control decks are green instead of blue."
There is zero room in the market. No legs, none.
thanks for this review! super helpful
Many comments here seem to think if Lorcana isn’t a top 3 CCG/TCG, then it is worthless.
I wonder if these feelings extend to other types of games? “If this worker placement game isn’t knocking one of the top three worker placement games of the pedestal, it is a failure!” Do you hear how silly that sounds?
Been seeing this a ton in boardgames, video games, and movies lately. Most people seem to think if it isn't a 10, it is a 0. And that's really annoying to me.
I agree that it seems weird to think this way. However, I think many people have gotten their hopes dashed by CCGs that fail after a few years. So it becomes increasingly hard to play the game even if you love it, because 1. It's no longer produced and 2. tournament or community play is no longer supported at local game stores. We can still really enjoy a game that doesn't break the CCG dominance, but the fact is we won't really be able to play much of it as time goes on. . .
@@sarumon17 Why can’t you play it if they stop making future series? Again, think about it in terms of board games. Brass Birmingham is #1 on BGG and that came out in 2018 and there is no new content being released for it.
@@ImaginEric I think if you and you friend have cards, you absolutely can/should. But I think the sense of community around a CCG is fundamentally different than board games. You are looking for a hub (game store) where new people are messing with new decks and play testing different deck constructions. I just know multiple people with a bunch of star wars destiny cards that they can't find anyone to play with.
Basically my argument is not whether you can play them or not, but that the community surrounding CCG is way more integral to how they are played than a board game.
Tom talks a lot about "overpowered" and I'm sure there are those cult fans that collaborate and play, but the bottom line is they are not at your local game store.
Because TCG's require a ton of time and financial investment. If worker placement games cost me $1,000 each, then I for sure wouldn't be buying a dozen different ones of them either.
The reason the characters are attacking each other is because they're not the actual characters. You, as the illumineer, are summoning a version of the character (that isn't actually the character) and they're helping you to bring back the stories (or whatever).
meh
Sounds like a convoluted justification for attacking.
Wow, this just looks like a ripoff of Magic the Gathering, with minor minor changes. I can't understand the hype for this game unless you're a very big Disney fan...
What a astoundingly lazy copy of MTG. They didnt even come up with decent terminology. Ink drying? Exert? Lore? Its incoherent. Lets fact it...this is a straight cash grab. Disney has become a pathetic corporation who just shovels out trash and depends on its super fans to gobble it up without a thought. Its so sad what Disney has become & how disrespectfully it treats its fans. They didnt even pick a different number of points to play to....unbelievable.
floodborn kind of reminds me of rabbids from mario rabbids
Just a personal opinion, but I've always had a problem with mechanics where you have to burn a card with a function to use for "mana". I spend too much time burning really good cards just to get cheaper cost cards onto the field. There are two or three other games with this same mechanic. Not saying this is a bad game, just saying I personally don't care for that style of mana generation.
The theme is there?! I thought none of the characters ever feel like their characters. There is very little flavour in this game other than calling some spells are songs
Two thing I don’t like about this game,
1- drawing only 1 card and It’s should’ve been two cards like starwars ultimate
2- the lore target is very low which lacks the depth of the game, If the target was 30 lore it will be better m
other than that the game has a huge potential
I like that the goal is set to 20. People have things to do, and 20 makes it so that the game doesn't go on for hours. If you want to keep playing, then start another game. There are 6 different ink types to explore, and as a new/casual TCG player the idea of experimenting and building a strong deck is interesting. It might seem trivial now, but this is only the first chapter with more cards planned to release at the end of this year/beginning of '24.
Zee: "this borrows a little bit from a lot of different games"
Upper Deck: "and a lot from one"
Ravensburger: *whisper* "don't mention Ikorr don't mention Ikorr don't mention Ikorr don't men..."
I love trading card games/LCGs. Been playing Pokémon since release, Magic here and there and have been sinking my teeth into Marvel Champions. As much as I love Disney...I'm gonna stay far away from this. Not to say it doesn't look fun, because it certainly does. It's just I can't afford yet another card game to collect
Played it today. I like the songs stuff and I can see kids liking it, but it was just average to me.
People getting crazy already spending way above msrp for cards. Feel bad. There is a sickness among folks and a greed among others.
I would love to play this game but I know no one who would play it so no not buying it.
Gas tone?
Gastone
I dislike lazy theme games... So by not touching this card game, I'm gonna save SO MUCH MONEY! Thank you, DISNEY!!!
This game does not have a lazy theme. Many characters have relevant effects/stats, all the art is original, and every card has a little flavor text on the bottom.
Is this a CCG or a TCG or both?
Both are usually the same thing, but one of the terms was trademarked a while.
@@TorIverWilhelmsen Thank you!
TCG and CCG are widely synonym as far as I know. TCG got a bad image and then they tried to establish a new term for the same thing to circumvent but it's the same thing.
So far on my play group whoever goes first wins…. Anyone else?
There have been CCGs I really loved, but I am not a "CCG guy". I didn't like Keyforge. I like Pokémon as a card game. All of that given, I think the hype is way off the charts for this, but I'm not even sure what to base an opinion on. It looks OK. I wouldn't spend 14 hours of my life getting ahold of it :), but that's a personal choice.
This game is specifically for intense Disney fans with little ccg/lcg experience. Practically no innovation and the card draw and top decking aspect is terrible. imo 5/10
I was curious, and a tad hopeful for this one - I know lots of TCG players and thought Disney might try something new - going on adventures, completing quests, maybe even fix the problems of the almost-excellent MLP CCG. There's so much that could be done with all that Disney has, especially in terms of worlds and IPs.
Oh...so...more of the same.
Ah well. Epic is still the champ, and doesn't look like it will be toppled anytime soon. If I'm going to fight, I'd rather fight with a T-Rex and griffons and dragons and robots and a zombie apocalypse than with...Abu, I guess.
Since I started Flesh and Blood, Epic is collecting dust. Still good artwork though.
From what I'm hearing, it does look like a watered down version of Magic? I can't speak for the comparisons with other card games, but other than the songs (a very nice thematic touch, I'll agree) there isn't much in the way of game mechanisms representative of the game's core appeal.
The mostly unoriginal gameplay will not give this the legs to remain relevant IMO--the nostalgic artwork might though, which I don't think is reason enough to spend the money. Point is, there is already a superior Disney game to this in every way; as much if not more thematically coherent, and that is called Villainous. Yes, it is not a collectible deck builder (already a plus in my book, but to each their own), but it is more focused, with no fluff, with core mechanisms tied to the character's backstory in unique ways that shape win conditions and gameplay, with inter-player conflict that is not so simple as "I tap and attack you", while also being optional (which I think is what Zee was alluding to here, in terms of using worn TCG mechanisms instead of exploring options).
I will concede that replayability is the one aspect that will always be better in CCGs, so I give it that, but alas, that is the nature of finite/fixed boardgames vs ever expanding, never-ending deck-building systems.
And right now Lorcana is more welcoming, but I see it eventually pushing people away as they grow in card quantity, complexity, and price (as the objectively better cards hit the third-party markets), much like Magic did.
My 2 cents.
Love you guysssss
ugh I want to play this lol and I don't think that's a good thing.
One thing to consider…the MTG theme does not appeal to everyone, and the MTG scene at many FLGS is not very friendly to women. There is a large market that is not being served by MTG, and this game might fill that void
Doubtful.
Zee: "we still couldn't find mechanical ways which don't devolve into I'm Attacking You"
Ravensburger: "don't blame us, blame Upper Deck... oh wait..."
If there is any merit to the lawsuit, based on the ruleset, if Upper Deck plasterers a fantasy/scifi/steampunk or whatever theme Ikor will be on it, it would fail with or without Lorcana, except for a forum somewhere who members lament that "no one understands how good Ikor is"
Disney theme has given this ruleset a chance and it's clearly not aiming to be an MtG competitor, it's looking at pokemon and similar to steal market share.
Wait... does yo-gi-oh still exist?
I think Yugioh is approaching a singularity where the games end before they begin, so it may as well not exist, but yeah, for now.
@@ccggenius - It's time to do-do-do-do-dododododo something else!
I COMPLETELY agree with Zee's point about how attacking breaks immersion. Like, why can't it be about something else? It's such a missed opportunity to redefine the genre a bit. Also, the multiple pieces of artwork are clearly in response to Marvel Snap's success with its variants. If this was delivered in an LCG/deckbuilder format instead of a CCG that's designed to suck money out of you, I'd be interested, but I'll pass on this.
Marvel Snap isn't even a year old, I can't imagine they generated all that art and everything since then.
@Draffut2003 True, but to some extent, Disney knew about all of it at once, right (I'm sure there are different divisions)? So yes, it probably wasn't a direct inspiration, but maybe Disney had plans for alt artwork to be a driving component of its monetary strategy for both.
My LGS ordered $90,000 of product. They were allocated $800... Something seems off here.
It’s lottery. It’s gambling. They’ll prey on peoples’ weaknesses
Looking forward to this from a collector and fan viewpoint, with the hopes that it is a quality game I can easily play with other people. Like how people enjoy the idea of Villainous.
On a scale of 1-10 a 5 is good. Wish schools hadn't ingrained the idea of 7 as the fail mark. 7 really just meant you had enough mastery to advance to another level. Even a rating of 2-4 means some people are going to enjoy it.
I can’t wait for Friday!!!!!!
#DemonRush
Arielle-control is my favourite mechanism!
Another soulless TCG, from an equally soulless company. Had the same hatred towards Keyforge, which is literally "microtransaction-lootboxes-the-game." I won't be surprised if this winds up in a landfill somewhere. But, hey if it breaks the mold and goes toe-to-toe with MTG, Pokemon, or Yugioh, I will be impressed. I just don't see it, and maybe it could've been "non-collectible," but I see the outpouring of folks dumping cash into this from the onset, and maybe that was the intention afterall.
Disney already has a head to head game that is not collectible in "Sorceror's Arena", so it makes sense for them to not make yet another product that will compete against their own.
I actually just feel bad that you can't seem to find joy in anything anymore.
Lol with this comment, on a scale of 1-even, I can’t.
@@chauveet It's sad that you feel the need to defend an exploitative business model that sh**s on the idea of fair competition and even playfields. If it was just about being a fun game, it wouldn't use a garbage CCG business model.
@@lastburning I am not specifically defending any business model...I am pointing out that you came to make such a negative, antagonistic, and critical post.
Instead of spreading joy, you choose to spread your teenage angst.
Gameplay is not original or creative enough. It's probably not in the top 20 TCGs ever created in terms of gameplay, and they are just banking on the Disney brand and on speculating investors. It's not a complete throwaway that's barely a game just to sell Disney, but it's also not a very good creative original game idea. They wanted to force a Disney TCG, and they created a good system, they didn't have a GREAT system to paste Disney on top or, better yet, an AWESOME concept that could only work for Disney theme.
I get that reviewers have to be nice and not give a bad score, since it's a very hype product from a big company and they don't want bad blood, but this seems to have no staying power, be super boring, have no cohesive themes and tribes/colors, get into topdeck mode way too often and just overall not be very engaging. In a few months they will play it with the enthusiasm of a 6/10 game.
And the artwork is a bit too samey everywhere for my liking. I get that it's one consistent style and they follow it, but they could've spiced it up.
Meh, I’ll stick with Magic the Gathering. Is this different enough (to a MtG fan)? Maybe. A little? It clearly is vying for the same popularity/profit that MtG has had for years and years. I just don’t think I need to go investing in an all new game when I have an excellent one already that has the history, community and selection that this doesn’t (yet, I’m sure).
If you’ve never played a game like MtG then this is probably the perfect game for you to get started in the pure chaos/money sink that is a CCG.
And it doesn’t have demons and rituals and all the more sinister things that MtG can have, so it probably appeals to families and Disney fanatics (I’m not a Disney fanboy).
Gonna be hard to get? Probably. Gonna be “expensive”? Probably.
Welcome to CCGs, ha! 😜