How They DId It - Elections in Ancient Rome
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- We step back in time to join the Romans as they head to the polls! In this episode on ancient elections we look at the offices, the voters, and the process of the mid Republic.
Bibliography:
-- Yakobson, Alexander. “Secret Ballot and Its Effects in the Late Roman Republic.” Hermes, Vol. 123, No. 4 (1995) pp. 426-442.
-- “Traditional Political Culture and the People’s Role in the Roman Republic.” Historia: Zeitschrift für Alte Geschichte, Bd. 59, H. 3 (2010) pp. 282-302.
-- Elections and Electioneering in Rome: A Study in the Political System of the Late Republic. Franz Steiner Verlag Stuttgart, 1999.
Lintott, Andrew. The Constitution of the Roman Republic. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2002.
-- Phillips, Daryll. “Voter Turnout in Consular Elections”, Ancient History Bulletin 18 (2004), 48-60.
-- Morstein-Marx, Robert. Mass Oratory and Political Power in the Late Roman Republic. New York: Cambridge University Press, 2004.
-- Taylor, Lily Ross. Jerszy Linderski, ed. The Voting Districts of the Roman Republic. University of Michigan Press, 2013.
-- Roman voting assemblies from the Hannibalic War to the dictatorship of Caesar. Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press, 1990.
-- “The Centuriate Assembly Before and After the Reform.” The American Journal of Philology, Vol. 78, No. 4 (1957), pp. 337-354.
Hall, Ursula. “Voting Procedure in Roman Assemblies.” Historia: Zeitschrift für Alte Geschichte, Bd. 13, H3 (1964), pp. 267-306.
-- “’Species Libertatis’ Voting Procedure in the Late Roman Republic.” Bulletin of the Institute of Classical Studies, Supplement No. 71 (1998), pp. 15-30.
Research: James Conrad
Artwork: Anders Végh Blidlöv (www.behance.ne...)
Music:
"Strings and Drums Comedy" by 8th Mode Music
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#HowTheyDidIt
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Remember to vote! : )
Time Stamps:
0:40 - The Offices up for Election
3:24 - The Voters
4:32 - The Tribal Assembly
6:02 - The Centuriate Assembly
7:38 - The Voting Process
8:36 - The Voting of the Tribal Assembly
11:29 - The Voting of the Centuriate Assembly
Finn MacCool. Democrats and Republicans suck ass. Neither side follows The Constitution. Both want more federal power but in different ways. Both want to control different aspects of your life. Both are cancer within our country. So no don't vote republican or democrat. Vote third party. And if you think its a wasted vote remember this quote from one of our founding fathers. "Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost."-John Quincy Adams.
Switch to proportional representation, that would solve the problem. Make citizens vote for political parties instead of candidates, with an extra vote for a preferred member of that party. Give seats in the senate, or city council, based on the percentage of votes that a party got. Now hand out those seats to members of the party that earned them, ordering them by the number of preferred votes. Now suddenly there's a chance for third parties to win power, and your vote will not be lost.
Of course, don't wait for the Democrats or Republicans to do it for you, as the current system benefits them greatly.
Just a small thing, the "i" in "DId/Did" is capitalized in the title
Awesome upload. I will definitely be voting.
Heya, could you please enable the translation of subtitles by the community? Thanks a lot. :)
*This public service announcement is brought to you by th Capitoline Hill Guild of Millers. True Roman Bread for True Romans.*
And by Guido and Felix Public Advocates.
Have a pending case? Need an "amici?" We will speak for you, citizen.
That speaker guy was amazing along with the rest of the series
Herod, the Tetrarch of Galilee visits the city. During his stay mockery of Jews and their one god should be kept to an appropriate minimum!
*Trve
ROMA SPONSOR !
Finally giving our boy Historia Civilis some recognition!
ancient roman politicians be like: “mom said its my turn in the consulship”
i am already consul
"But the Senate..."
"I AM THE SENATE!"
?
Lol, not so unlike the US. See the Bush family.
Money said it’s my turn in the consulship
Do they also get a Sticker if they voted?
No. But tell you what, citizen: make the right decision, and you'll walk away a slightly richer man. (whistle) Cassius! Some bread and wine for my new friend here. And don't forget to pay a little visit to the Venus and Lyre while you're here. Tell them Aurelius sent you and the first ride is free.
When in Rome, am I right?
@@garcalej O tempora, o mores! Some moral rectitude would not go amiss citizen! These elections are ordained by Jupiter himself!
@Anakin Skywalker Yes, yes, of course. Nothing amiss going on here, citizen. Just having a friendly chat with an out of towner. As innocent as a Vestal Virgin's footstep, I assure you. (Wink)
Of course.
Not stickers...
Maybe little pins though.
Too complicated. Much more interesting to choose chiefs by using scuffle and yelling.
lol
I second this.
Is that like a germanic Thing, or something? I don't know.
You sound like a German, go back to your side of the Rhine.
How dare you! Check your roman citizen privilege, oppressor!
It's a shock, as native Italian, and lover of ancient history, to see the total lack of italian YT channels related to ancient history and, more specifically, to Roman era. some scarce channels are just rip off or patchwork of videos stolen here and there, in low quality and with almost non-existent comment or criteria. For this I greatly appreciate channels like Invicta, that show a REAL love, and great skills, in creating documentaries like this. I just feel the need, now, to push all my friends in all social media, to subscribe to this channel, watch all the videos and put likes everywhere. Thanks again, Invicta. Keep doing this great work, ad maiora!
Man it must be wild seeing this comment 5 years later. Now you almost can't search for history on youtube for ANY period of time without having to scroll past a couple roman history documentaries lol
Really loving this series keep it up !
shut up
Hey invicta, could you please make a video on how the romans actually made their armour? Thanks
I think something on Roman industry could be cool. We could discuss the armor Fabrica and maybe mining operations
I would very much like to see that too.
please do that :D
YES PLEASE DO. Oh, and their trade and logistics too? How ancient industry (specifically romans) work?
@@InvictaHistory if you make one about mines please include a "no slaves died in the making of this video" disclaimer, Slave Lives Matter.
Hey mate. A Great overview about two of the three assemblies of the roman republic, but you kinda did not mention the Plebeian Council (lat. concilium plebis), which was quite important for passing laws (until Sulla's time), electing lower magistrates and try judicial cases. It was held on the Forum Romanum too and not on the Campus Martius (btw the Tribal Assembly was also held near the Forum Romanum and not on the Campus Martius). Furthermore, the Plebeian Council was special, because it did not allow any patricians to be present (although they tried to watch it from the Curia Hostilia). Thus it created some sort of a counter balance to the Centuriate Assembly. I'm aware that in the later republic things changed for the Plebeian Council and demagogues started to use it quite often, but since you said that you focus on the mid republic I felt that this information would not be out of place.
Cheers & keep going with your vids man. I'm enjoying them quite a bit lately.
We did in fact skip over it for some brevity, maybe I'll have time to make an addendum video to discuss it
Another vid always sounds good. =)
I originally read the title as 'ELECTRONICS in Ancient Rome' and was very confused.
Looks like Juliter is about to strike someone down.
"I love democracy. I love the republic."
24 hours and one crossing of the Rubicon later....."UNLIMITED POWAAAA"
@menkrep1337 bot and Athens
*3 drinks later*
The Republic shall be reorganized into the FIRST GALACTIC EMPIRE!
The tribal voting system feels uncomfortably familiar
its very similar to gerrymandering
Funny how the us system is loosely based on rome and we're having similar problems.
@@qwerty975311 here in Aus we use preferential votes which works pretty well. Our downside is that its mandatory which is awkward when you dont consider yourself knowledgable on the party policies.
It reminds me of the electoral college.
@@greenie2600 It isn't a democracy but a REPUBLIC, and do you really think California and New York taking up all the votes is very democratic?! What about the millions of people in the middle with very different needs
My personal second favorite channel on youtube, name dropping my favorite channel on youtube. Warms my heart to see.
Fascinating video. As a side note I think it's very interesting to delve into why the Romans structured their "democracy" in this way and also how these concepts are still in play today. Studying the past tells us a lot about the present. Rome being the cornerstone of our modern democracies can teach us a lot about how and why our current governments operate the way they do.
It's also interesting to study what didn't work well either, and how that did (or didn't) contribute to the collapse of the Republic into the Empire.
You answered every question my teacher couldn't, thanks mate!
Certainly makes you appreciate modern gains in equality
Pft, yeah right. As if modern voting systems aren't completely rigged too...
@@RenegadeVile I can see why they'd allow the rural voters more power since they produced and also made up the spirit of the nation whereas the concentration of mi-grants which usually flock to cities and other people who had little to contribute weren't going to make Rome better. Sort of how millions of im-migrants in Western nations today have actually destroyed democracy for the locals and killed the culture and spirit of the land. The same way it killed the Roman empire.
@@timyumichuck9262 Don't repeat the BS right wing nationalists want to say that "immigration destroyed the Roman Empire." Romanization and assimilation of tribes and nations have always been a policy since the time of Augustus. and if the Romans actually followed their promises to the Goths and give them land, maybe Rome would not have been sacked. Also, immigration is just one of the myriad of reasons Rome fell such as (and not limited to): Economic mismanagement, debasement of the currency, constant civil wars, invasion of the huns, third century crisis, the adoption of Christianity and the end of Religious tolerance of the Empire, lack of infrastructure, constant use of slaves, plagues, the empire being overstretched, general lack of wealth the Western provinces had unlike the richer east, the division of the empire, etc.
And if any pundit or announcer clearly has an agenda over a topic, I recommend you simply broaden your information to know the many nuances and sides of matter.
@@timyumichuck9262 And what is this "spirit of the nation." If that is the case then the views of the many settled citizens in cities (which generally took up more percentage than the rural parts) are not part of the accepted political discourse? And what is to say that the immigrants can accept this so called "spirit of the nation" that predominantly belongs in the rural parts of a nation state? (not mentioning that many other societies are not held together by a common national identity, but by ethnicity, religion, language, etc).
cool! I just voted in my home country (Bavaria, Germany) today and this was very interesting to watch!
Lax comix it was pretty cool 👍
we're having a local election next month and i always find them depressing. my state is about a 50/50 split between Democrats and Republicans but since the majority of the people who work for the government are democrats (I'd guess around 90%) only Democrats get the major offices. I think my state has voted a republican for president once in the last 60 years and the same goes for governor. The corruption is pretty bad (by Western standards at least) and the last time we _tried_ voting a republican for governor they had a "recount" and "lost" a bunch of votes, said the democrat candidate had won, and said any further recounts or investigations would be "a waste of tax payers money". I still look forward to voting on some propositions/issues though.
@@arthas640 what State is it?
@@arthas640 Lol what's your actual evidence for electoral fraud?
A fellow bavarian
I like your videos on Rome. I've been a fan of Historia Civilis for some time too, that's really cool ya gave em a shout-out! Keep up the great work!
I'm glad I watched Historia Civilis' video about this beforehand. It made it easier to understand this. I wish I'd seen them in the opposite order lol You did a great job, I really appreciate your videos and historical perspective
Thank you for the embedded bibliography. I've been telling friends they should do history videos like that.
This is something that can be hard to understand when reading about it, so I appreciate the visualization. 😊 Also, I love the artstyle and the effort puy into it on this channel overall.
the roman urban vs rural tribes makes me think of urban vs rural states in the us
I could have sworn that Rome elected eight (8) Praetors by 80 BC, according to Handbook to Life in Ancient Rome by Lesley & Roy Adkins. Could you please source where the number of Praetors was doubled?
I accidentally used a number that wouldn't be reached until later in the imperial period. I just checked the book you cited (which I have next to me) and agree that it would have been more appropriate to list the number as 8 for the Republican period.
Invicta np, your videos are still awesome. 😎
you are a good man Stephen
People in the middle ages :"Let's do monarchy"
It was modeled after the late roman empire, which had emperors.
Venice: "no"
Less convoluted, at least.
You forgot about 500 years of history there
The reason the winner was called before counting all votes is because the rich (higher classes) voted first.
If the rich (which voted first) came to an agreement for a candidate, the election was closed. If however, the rich could not agree, then the poor (by which I mean the less rich rich. Since the actual poor had almost no voting power) were consulted to tilt the election one way or another.
One of my favorite channels on TH-cam. Another stellar video. A+!
So sometimes a tribal vote could lead to a candidate winning without winning the popular vote, urban citizens had their voting power weakened and rich land owners greatly influenced elections... this system sounds familiar
Sounds like a system that works
You know what’s crazy? Electoral college
2:02 jeez someone is ripped
He fapped a lot
Now i get where Censorship comes from
They also weren't very well liked back then as well, and the position didn't even last the length of the Roman empire..
*Glass Houses*
No, if this system seems bad, it's because it is. The fact that other systems are bad also has no bearing on that.
This is a great series and I watch it as soon as it is uploaded. Thanks for sharing these very interesting topics.
I love this so much. Keep doing this series!
"Check out this video by Historia Civilis"
*Glances at autoplay*
Well, this will be easy.
Good timing! Today was communal and provencal voting day in Belgium
"Two plebeian and two patrician Aediles"
Initially yes, but in later Rome Curule Aedile could be held by either patrician or plebeian. Marcus Tullius Cicero, for example, was an Eques, or rich plebeian, but he was elected Curule Aedile.
it's a shame that us italians we dont have such beautiful documentary in italian!!!! thank you very much
Polish local elections are coming up in a week, you couldn't have made this in a better time :D
nice artwork on the roman officials. where did it come from?
Nice timing since there are currently elections in Belgium.
Roman way or the highway
You mean; "The Appian Way"?
You mean aquiduct.
but the roads head to Rome
Love these videos
Thanks! I've been getting a lot of positive feedback on this series but do want to get back to Moments episodes
Can you do a video about how Gladiators lived and were treated? Love your content
In Brazil lower classes vote willingly for upper class candidates, its called coronelismo or caudilhismo
colonelism? As in the military rank?
Hey Oakley. I hope you do a video on jugurtha and Marianas. The war was fascinating, filled with bribes and corruption in a time when Rome was being asswhooped by the Germanics.
👍 *My compliments on the well done presentation. Keep up the good work!* Cheers! 🍺 Roma Aeterna Victrix!
I like your Warhammer 2 videos but I really like your history videos.
This comes at a perfect time for the local elections in my province!
Loving the artwork you use in these videos man!
Hi I love the videos on your site. Can you have a video on the following two topics:
- religious ceremonies and omens Greek armies used to look out for
- punishment in the Greek armies
We know something about punishment in Roman armies ( eg decimation) but not about Greek armies
Would a Citizen be casting a vote in both Assemblies?
Yes I believe so
The whole video is on roman elections but you still skipped parts...... Why make the video if you didn't want to do it right?
youre actually a hero for referencing. thanks
It does not matter who votes but who counts the votes .........
When you say it out loud its not that hard
Hey can you do more videos with the artstyle of your older videos (A Roman soldier prepares dinner, 9 lives of Alexander, etc.) That one feel really smooth. Good video anyways?
Wow who would have knew the US system would be very similar today
The founding fathers actually set it up that way on purpose. Many parallels have been drawn between the United States and Rome due to their incredibly similar election bodies. This is not always good.
its pretty close, even an ancient version of gerrymandering
It's supposed to be. The US was the first actual representative republic since Roman times, so what better model was there to go off of?
its kind of based on the Roman system.
@@CaptainConformist Incredibly similar? What the hell do you think goes on in the U.S.?
Awesome video!
Really love the artwork too, keep up!
Who agrees with me that we should make a Roman state by everything in Latin
+Saguntum-Iberian-Greek Konstantinopoli
the us is pretty much an improved version of rome.
What?
Two questions. 1.) How did they decide to what tribe to assign you? and 2). if most Romans of the lower classes were illiterate (and I suppose they were) how did they know how to write the initials of the person for whom they were voting if by "secret ballot"?
My guesses (4 years on)
1. Hereditary
2. I guess they couldn't vote then, more power to the elites
Hey there @invicta fan here, since the thfe production days. I was hoping you'd do a video on importance of rivers in classical antiquity warfare, river crossings, bridge building and importance of bridges.
Can you do one for HRE?
Well done!
More please! Roman life was so interesting...
Oh God the ad I got before the video was nauseating. But other than that awesome video as always 👍
Great history lesson, can't wait!!
Excellent .. we DID NOT see this in Rome2 !!
Roman Industry explained would be cool. Thanks for the uplaod btw. I will definitely be voting this Nov.
How did the empire deal with snow? Shovel the roads?
All is fair in war. *Fight about it*
@I AM ALIVE !!!!! Kill the people trying to kill you, not the people peacefully trying to exist
Please do a piece on the transport system
The Tribal Assembly got to pick Preators. Oh the carnage this would cause when the Preators got their own personal guard....
the origins of the praetorian guard date back to groups of elite soldiers that protected generals during the Roman Republic. As early as the second century B.C., special units were selected to shadow famed Roman leaders such as Marc Antony, Scipio Africanus and Lucius Cornelius Sulla whenever they ventured into the field. Julius Caesar later enlisted his tenth legion as personal security, but the Praetorian Guard as we know it didn’t appear until shortly after Augustus became Rome’s first emperor in 27 B.C.
Great video! I wonder how it changed as the empire expanded and more and more people were citizens.
Roman citizenship was restricted to italy and colonies until 212ad and by that time the senate was mostly irrelevant
Great video, you put elections in in anceint rome
It's really too bad K lost the election to a technicality. I thought he had some really good ideas to clean up the city.
where is part 2 of evolution of the roman Legions?
Could a citizen in the Centuriate Assembly also vote in the Tribal Assembly?
Ancient Roman politics were shady. Back then, "Donaldius Tangerium Trumpius
could have claimed ''this election was as pre-determined as a gladitorial duel' and not necessarily have been wrong.
Really great and interesting video on the voting process. I was wondering which of your sources you got the information at 12:42 (about how the higher class could essentially determine the result of the voting without it even reaching the lower votes)? I am doing an essay on this period of democracy and would greatly appreciate the help with finding the course, thanks!
03:35 - 03:50 the picture on this slide depicts what scene from what film or series?
But candidate K is not a candidate. It only means that the particular tribe couldn't vote for, say, candidate J or candidate I. Otherwise, there would've been 11 candidates not 10 in that particular example. Also, why would some tribes be able to elect 2 candidates at once (speaking of tribes 10-18)?
there's been a typo in the title for over a year - don't tell him (;
Is there any record of using flags to signify victory or margin of victory in Roman elections. Appian uses the term " elected with flying colors" vis a vis Gaius Gracchus. The term is usually associated with the Age of discovery / Conquest but I thought maybe the Romans used electoral flags the same way as gladitorial flags . The first thing I though of was the Papal Smoke to signify the College of cardinals' decisio - yea or nay?
Great video!
The American Electoral College is a good thing that protects the rights of smaller states. You shouldn’t throw shade at it.
Great video, and quite apropos.
Nice video, very interesting
I understand now. I came here after reading Robert Harris book "Imeperium". How they elect officials in that book confused me. Thank you
how did roman census' work? biblical accounts seemed to have muddied the waters on what when why and how.
what was the senate function under the empire?
According to the graph about midway through you video you need a lot of "asses" to be considered heavy infantry. I know it is kind of immature, but that really made me laugh.
"Dude, you don't know how many asses I had to buy to be considered a first rate citizen".
You could say they were really putting their asses on the line.
hahaha, yeah, and some were off their asses afterwards.
Like holy crap that is confusing!
Probably had higher turn out rates than the U.S. :/
Just as unrepresentative and gerrymandered, however.
Romans didn't have liberals.
@@vivigesso3756 you should read mary beard's SPQR. Or really any book on roman history at all.
Aside from all it's liberals...
i know what you mean, my local state by population is a 50/50 split between both parties but the Democrats win virtually every major election. this is originally due to corruption, the democrats control most major offices and around 90% of government employees are all democrats. because they win all the important decisions and all the major offices most republicans just kind of gave up. If i were to hazard a guess I'd say republican turn out is probably a quarter that of democrats due to pessimism. I'm middle of the road politically but it's kind of depressing when your vote doesnt count on most issues.
How terrible! Could you imagine living in a society where all matters of public governance and democratic organization was dictated by only the wealthiest citizens? THANK GOD we don't have a society like that in (America/Britain/China/Russia/Germany/Italy/Brazil/France/Spain/etc. etc.) anymore. That would be unacceptable!
** Scott Witte ** Yeah! ...Oh, wait. :-|
In Rome it wasnt decided only by wealthiest one.
Wealthiest can be actually ignored. Like for example Caesar did with his first reform.
The one that make bill a law are Rome poorest.
In other words
Richer have most if power when it come to appointing most of public servants. And those appointed create bills.
But its the poorest in plebiean assembly that make turn bill into law. Akin to modern day referendums.
Ok this particular kinda comment (although true) is getting kinda stale.
Roman Republic gave a great power to the poor in the form of a veto. Veto power was left to the Pleabian Assembly so every bill had to be approved by the Plebs. Imagine if today we had a referendum for ever bill pass by Legislative branches.
It's rigged and still is.
Yeah like still today
Awesome video! Small typo in the title, it says DId instead of Did.
It's Better than the US postal vote at last.
Thank you
as of writing the 'i' in did is capitalized, you may wanna fix that lmao
thanks for catching that! Fixed : )
@@InvictaHistory still haven't fixed it lmao
Its still there 😞
@@mikeyholterfield9019 it's also still there
Who cares
Oakley, is that second video on the Roman Legion History in the works?
3:33 you added a scene from japanese movie, live action from manga.😎😁
ree
Which manga