This has very quickly become legitimately one of my very favorite TH-cam channels. All of these stories are incredibly told, with great detail. Well done, Waterline Stories! And thanks!
somehow that's the companies fault I bet according to the other two groups involved. That being sailors and family. The three way arguments get pretty interesting when blame is being assigned. Its the one common factor in all these stories.
@@robert48044 with no contact between the boats its both crews faults whether they want to admit it or not. Different industry but working with oversized trucks and loads on the highway, mile markers are called out so that they know when they are going to meet one another and the pilot trucks usually decided where they will pull off and let the other pass, or where a safe pass can be made. Its almost unthinkable that 2 ships in those conditions wouldn't radio one another and communicate their intent to one another.
@@BType13X2 especially, because there is only one person "piloting" the truck and there are many crew members on a ship. People do forget about very basic stuff, even if it's the daily routine. I have left home without my phone, wallet or keys. But how can something like this be overlooked, when multiple people are supposed to pay attention?
@@WormBurger You realize other creators have made videos about this tragedy as well right? And that this has been reported on well before youtube was a thing. Everytime I hear this story I think about the lack of radio communication as well, everything that happened was completely avoidable with a 30 second radio conversation.
Enjoying the 3D models of the vessels - Nice touch! 🚢 Always captivated by the detail with which these tales are expressed and learning about maritime procedures in the process. Details also amplify the tragic loss of life that could otherwise been have avoided. This tale at least had the majority of those aboard evacuated. Components of this tale reminded me of the Sewol Ferry Tragedy. Ever heard of it? I was in Korea when it happened and it shocked the country to a standstill, with memorials and a sadness that spread throughout the whole country. Each passing day bringing new revelations one could hardly comprehend. Acts of bravery by crew and civilians never to be seen again. Revelations of a cowardly Captain, build up to a nation wide man hunt and near impeachment of the country’s President. I think your narration on this tragic event would be quite poignant… Anyhow - thanks for the intriguing content as always. Kind regards from JHB.
Excellent analysis. My late father in law, Istvan Rabovsky and his dancing partner/first wife Nora Kovach were passengers. There are accounts of Hungarian ballet dancers on the deck in their underwear, well, that was them. We lost Istvan aged 90 a few years ago but he would share his personal account of that day with me many times, although he was never really able to explain to me how the collision happened, only what it felt like to be in it. This video has answered so many questions for me. Many thanks.
@@lewismartinez5130 Also, the Stockholm was almost an icebreaker. I've read that it ripped so smoothly into the Andrea Doria's hull that very little was felt.
The use of radio between ships for the purposes of collision avoidance has always and still is officially discouraged. On a number of occasions the use of radio has contributed to a collision rather than avoided it. This is because it's by no means certain which ship each one is talking to and the possibility of a misunderstanding is great, especially if the two ships have little or no knowledge of each other's or a common language. I'm not even sure that in 1956 it was easy for ships to communicate bridge to bridge, which would have been required on this occasion.
Andrea Doria was trying to avoid the Nantucket Shoals. She would have been farther to the left of the Stockholm if their radar was set to the proper range and the captain actually knew where he was.
I remember when you started the channel, and how you said you were looking forward growing it to the point where you could implement all the the ideas, research, production values and presentation that you wanted to. I think it’s fair to say that you’ve managed it!
Being a true thalassophobe, and with the captivating way you tell a story, I feel like I'm within the experience. Thrilling times :) ... Thanks for yet another great one, WS!
great series of videos from you, just discovered your channel today. As an aside, I continuously telling my team that same saying "You don't get what you expect, you get what you inspect" a saying I've had for years and never fails to be true!
I'm from Hull UK that was once the biggest fishing port on earth, we had an especially bad tragedy in 1968 where 3 trawlers ( the triple trawler tragedy ) were lost in 1 trip with 60 men lost . It would be fascinating to see this channel tell the story
its 2024, by now its safe to assume based on historical records that ships usually LIST first before they go down, and that with such design of the lifeboats and deployment systems, in a listing scenario, HALF, if not all of them, will become unusable.....luckily we already have a better design from those hyper clever naval engineers capable of conceiving a 5 casino 23 deck 5 pool cruise ships...right? right?
Unless a ship takes damage directly to the bow or stern a list is unavoidable. That's why ships are designed to just accept that a list is inevitable and they instead try and slow or stop it. Water tight doors and bulkheads keep the flooding contained and then you can counter flood to right the ship. Life boats also have a range of acceptable listing. Listing to a limited degree is completely normal even for a ship that is not flooding. Consider that when the Costa concordia sank the listing only got bad enough to affect life boat operation because the crew was negligent and did not call an abandoned ship soon enough. Other cases of sinking are either older ships not built to modern safety standards or the listing had no effect on life boats operation.
@@jasonirwin4631 given all those facts you explain I still find it kind of stupid that more efforts are not invested in lifeboats that deploy no matter what, no matter what side they are in, and whatever position the ship finds itself in...I wish I was naval engineer levels of clever though, to tackle that and make myself rich.
@@guachingman There are life boats that can be quickly and safely deployed no matter what, and there have been for a while. Problem is they cost a bit more than the simpler kinds so, well... :P
Statistics claim the inflatable liferafts are safer than lifeboats to a large extent, as long as there is no fire 🔥, I have talked to two Survivors from the Estonia (aquaintabces to my parents), according to them the boats where worse of than the rafts in the high steep waves.
(This has nothing to do with the ship, but just the phone anxiety memories making me laugh.) I’m assuming you’re somewhere around my age (I’m 33). When I first graduated college and got my first full time job, my god, was phone anxiety a thing. It’s way better now but I bet it’s even worse for gen Z. I at least grew up when “oh, I need to talk to my doctor. Let me call.” Now I can send a message. Things are so much easier but that phone anxiety? That’s a real one. And yes… when I first started around 22? There were times I’d email, get no response and walk across the entire college campus I worked at just to get an answer. If I was that bad, I feel bad both for gen Z, and the people onboarding them.
😂 why solve a simple problem in 2 minutes on the phone when I can hide behind an email and let it escalate over a few hours and then call my boss to solve a major problem that's gotten out of my control.
@@nyanbinary1717 But is it rational? The only type of phone anxiety I get is knowing that I'll have to wait hours and navigate 1000 robo menus before I solve my problem. If I can talk to a human being and it takes 30min or less I'm pleased as punch every time
@@johnconnor2572 Oh no, of course it’s not rational. I recognize that I could just spend 5 minutes on the phone to make an appointment, but can I? Probably not.
This is a great channel, I'm relatively new to it, I love the way each story is told, such detail and told in an interesting way that leaves you wanting more, well done.
i wonder why the ships are not more "chatty" and just say "i see you on radar, do you see me?" Especially in the Pre-Satelite era where a direct communication would be a good source of information.
You didn't know who to call. It's not that simple. It could be any vessel replying complicating things further. Under normal circumstancies following the COLREG ensures safe passage. Today we have AIS making radio coms easier.
The use of radio between ships for the purposes of collision avoidance has always and still is officially discouraged. On a number of occasions the use of radio has contributed to a collision rather than avoided it. This is because it's by no means certain which ship each one is talking to and the possibility of a misunderstanding is great, especially if the two ships have little or no knowledge of each other's or a common language. I'm not even sure that in 1956 it was easy for ships to communicate bridge to bridge, which would have been required on this occasion.
@@simonjohn9525 thanks for some insight, just "talking" to each other would not solve the problem if both ships are clueless about each others exact position...
I have enjoyed binge watching your channel. You are clear, concise, and intelligent in your delivery. You also have excellent humility (what you mentioned in the Edmund Fitzgerald video). Thank you for wonderful content. Keep it up!
Cpt Calamai is one hell of a Champ...willing to go down with his Ship.. even in the face of rescue.. these are one of the more better endings despite the unfortunate loss of lives. May their souls Rest.
He took the sinking quite hard and it affected him quite negatively, never wanting to go to sea again. Calamai’s last words before his death in 1972 were reported by his daughters as ‘Are all the passengers safe?’ His valour shouldn’t be surprising considering he served as an officer in the Regia Marina in both World Wars (decorated in both), serving aboard a destroyer during the First and then as a Lt-Cdr taking charge of the battleship Caio Duilio during the Nov. 1940 Taranto raid and running her aground to avoid sinking in deeper water. Between the wars, he even received a silver Medal for Civil Valour while serving as an officer aboard SS Conte Grande. He was quite a good sailor.
Thanks...excellent video. Both ships should have been on the radio to each other...to confirm they're both in agreement as to which side they'll pass....
The use of radio between ships for the purposes of collision avoidance has always and still is officially discouraged. On a number of occasions the use of radio has contributed to a collision rather than avoided it. This is because it's by no means certain which ship each one is talking to and the possibility of a misunderstanding is great, especially if the two ships have little or no knowledge of each other's or a common language. I'm not even sure that in 1956 it was easy for ships to communicate bridge to bridge, which would have been required on this occasion.
My grandfather worked for Socony Mobil Oil Company as a truck driver in NYC and made deliveries of their products to businesses and gas stations. He told us that he used to have to back all the way down the piers in Manhattan with an 18-wheeler to make deliveries to the ships. When this accident happened and the ship was on the news, he told his family about how he'd made a delivery of barrels of oil to the Andrea Doria and commented on how beautiful of a ship it was.
Awesome storytelling. Even if not the most effective rescue ever, it is rather inspiring seeing people of so many different nationalities come to the aid a stricken vessel. Mariners know their fellow mariners would do the same thing if it happened to them.
I sailed on the Astoria (Stockholm) to the high Arctic in 2018 it had the ship's bell in a cabinet it had been recovered by a diver on the Andrea Doria and returned many years latter.
Fog is screwy, the sea giveth and the sea taketh. It gives us fish, it takes our ships and lives if ye fail to respect it. There’s a reason the Greeks feared Poseidon.
I was just thinking what if Costa Concordia captain Schettino had headed Andrea Doria, that guy would have certainly dashed off in the first life boat itself
I wonder if this inspired the movie ghost ship. It was an Italian ocean liner named Antonia Graza that went missing in the 60s and was found floating in the ocean.
I guess radar was so new, they hadn't internalized the concept of Constant Bearing, Decreasing Range (CBDR). Pretty simple stuff to figure out if you on a collision course if you know what CDRD means. Nothing wrong with passing starboard to starboard, as long everyone has good situational awareness. Fog plus a lack of contact should have created enough doubt to abandon the starboard to starboard plan and fall back to the standard port to port. If you keep turning and the other guy keeps counteracting your moves, it's time to change your plan.
In 1956 radars were unstabilised, i.e. they showed everything relative to the ship's heading, so as the ship altered course, even by one degree, the whole picture would rotate. It wasn't possible to monitor a constant bearing without taking a note of the ship's head when taking a bearing and plotting that on a paper plotting sheet. In 1956 it's unlikely that there was much radar training. Both ships detected each other by radar fine on their starboard bow, were due to pass at ¼ mile (very close in reduced visibility), but could not see each other visually This is not a good situation. As the ships were meeting end on or nearly end on the collision regulations at the time required each ship to alter course to starboard but this would have meant crossing the other ships bow. The Andrea Doria altered course slightly to port to open the passing distance but this small alteration was not (and could not) be picked up by the Stockholm. This alteration put the Stockholm fine on the Andrea Doria's starboard bow, this led the crew of the Andrea Doria to think that they would pass the Stockholm on her starboard side against convention. Based on the previous radar plots the crew of the Stockholm estimated the passing distance to be too close so made small alterations of course to starboard, also not detected by the Andrea Doria, to pass the Andria Doria on her port side. Neither ship was aware of the other's plan. At night in clear visibility it's impossible to tell if visibility ahead is reduced and where the poor visibility begins. There is much argument about which ship saw the other first and what the relative aspects of the were but when they did see each other both continued with their intended actions. The Andrea Doris altered a little further to port and the Stockholm realised that in order to pass the Andrea Doria to port a very large and quick alteration of course to starboard was required. This brought the ships together with the inevitable result. The use of radio between ships for the purposes of collision avoidance has always and still is officially discouraged. On a number of occasions the use of radio has contributed to a collision rather than avoided it. This is because it's by no means certain which ship each one is talking to and the possibility of a misunderstanding is great, especially if the two ships have little or no knowledge of each other's or a common language. I'm not even sure that in 1956 it was easy for ships to communicate bridge to bridge, which would have been required on this occasion.
One thing that (I've read) was decisive to the Andrea Doria's sinking was the fuel tanks. Yes, he said they floated - but there is an problem: the procedure should be to flood them with salt water, once empty. Exactly to act as ballast, and help stabilize the ship. But it costs money, since you have to wash them after. So, they were empty. And the controls for the valves to fill them were bellow water after the crash - so no one could correct it after the fact. Had they being full of water - as per manual procedure - the Andrea Doria would have not sank.
Very well done. I’ve read the book on the event and this is well balanced when using the book as the reference. The viewer must remember that maritime radar was in its infancy. I forgot which of the officers had not even been trained on it. Regardless, the hero was the Ilê de France. I’m glad the conventions are standardized today.,
Great video as usual! Just 1 correction to ur pronounciation of "Andrea Doria". Doria is pronounced DO-ria, not Do-RI-a, the emphasis is on the DO, not the RI.
And Andrea is not AN-dre-a. It is An-DRE-a. Because the namesake Andrea Doria was a famous Italian admiral and a male. There was even a statue of him on the ship.
A little nitpick: the picture of the Cape Ann at 19:00 isn't the SS Cape Ann that assisted the Andrea Doria. That ship operated between 1943 and 1968 and was scrapped. This one is the current Cape Ann that was completed in 1962 and is currently laid up in the National Defense Reserve Fleet in Virginia.
And several time a photo of a ship with two smoke stacks were used to show the Stockholm. And several times a single stacked Stockholm is shown. The single stacks one is the correct ship involved in the accident. Also once, a twin stacked white paint Andrea Doria was shown. The accident Andrea Doria is also a single stacked ship. I do not believe she was ever painted all white as she was used strictly as an "ocean line." Which at the time "usually" had a black painted hulls. The Stockholm, as we see, was one of a few exceptions. I didn't know the incorrect Cape Anne was used here. I'm not that familiar with either naval ship using this name, nor their history's. I've only seen aerial photos where we see her 1956 named ship standing by the stricken Andrea Doria. Good catch!
Yeah the guy beat him out for an apartment. Kramer had a book called _Astonishing Tales of the Sea_ that had a chapter about the _Andrea Doria_ sinking.
I feel that with the captain wanting to go down with it…people lost their lives on his watch, whether or not if it was his fault or not, that’s hard to live with.
I was seven years old when this happened. The network news stations sent helicopters out to take film and rush back. The film was then processed and broadcast. Before video tape and broadcasting live from the site. Very basic technology of the age. Appropriately enough, this was the year NBC broadcast a live dramatization of Walter Lord's A Night To Remember. Very good documentary.
Isn't putting the rudder hard over and engines full astern another mistake? I'm not an expert, but I've heard that that combination of orders causes the props to cavitate and disrupt the water flow around the rudder. Essentially like locking your breaks in a skid, I.E. no stearing any more.
I lived in Cape Cod, the area of the Collision, and listened to the radio reports that morning. I wanted Dad to rent a plane to go take a look. He thought about in, but wisely desided against it. Later, as a lobsterman, i visited AD's sinking site. I well understand the variability of the weather, especially fog all throughout the Cape area. From all that I've read Stockholm plotted the radar returns while AD simply used "Seamans Eye" to determine S's range, course, and bearing. With the radars both ships had, plotting is a Must to accurately locate the other ship. The AD used course changes too small to be readily apparent, while S simply made minute course changes to maintain the course the captain set. From all that seems to bear on the accident, the AD made an illegal left turn in front of S. Further, the AD failed to follow the builders stability requirements by not properly ballasting, leading to the excessive list as the narrator says. The routine and regular failure to ballast, as per the builders instructions, could well lead to the loss of limited liability on the part of the owners , the Italian Home lines. Thus, the Italian Lines settled their lawsuits, absorbing the entire $30MM loss of the AD. What no one has satisfactorily explained is the variance in the actual visual sightings of the two crews. The AD lookouts reported lights to starboard for a green to green passing as they expected. Lookouts for the S called lights to port for a proper and expected port to port or red to red passing. These calls were made Before the collision, so it appears neither sets of lookouts are trying to cover a mistake at the time. Somebody has to be, Not Lying, but just plain wrong.
19:41 "200 panicked crew men, and very few passangers.."? Why does that sound so familiar? So, if usually half of the boats are unusable, if the vessel lists, should there be more boats?
The use of radio between ships for the purposes of collision avoidance has always and still is officially discouraged. On a number of occasions the use of radio has contributed to a collision rather than avoided it. This is because it's by no means certain which ship each one is talking to and the possibility of a misunderstanding is great, especially if the two ships have little or no knowledge of each other's or a common language. I'm not even sure that in 1956 it was easy for ships to communicate bridge to bridge, which would have been required on this occasion.
@@waterlinestories I wrote that my brother is a blank... Glad I didn't post it. What I know is there is a lot of in fighting , it's keeping things from getting done properly while everyone argues over which way it should be done. ACOE has to stay there till it's done tho.
It seems like every ship incident involves a severe list to port or starboard which eliminates half of the available boats. Are there any lifeboat systems that are designed to be deployed, say, from the center of the deck instead of gravity systems from the sides of the ship?
Watching blips on a radar screen is not the way to avoid a collision. Each ship should have established and maintained a radar plot which would have established their CPA (closest point of approach) and the plot used to establish unexpected course changes on the part of the other vessel.
You do realize that this was in 1956 and because of this and other accidents, new regulations and safer sea travel were created right?.... Apparently not 🤦
Both ships detected each other by radar fine on their starboard bow, were due to pass at ¼ mile (very close in reduced visibility), but could not see each other visually This is not a good situation. As the ships were meeting end on or nearly end on the collision regulations at the time required each ship to alter course to starboard but this would have meant crossing the other ships bow. The Andrea Doria altered course slightly to port to open the passing distance but this small alteration was not (and could not) be picked up by the Stockholm. This alteration put the Stockholm fine on the Andrea Doria's starboard bow, this led the crew of the Andrea Doria to think that they would pass the Stockholm on her starboard side against convention. Based on the previous radar plots the crew of the Stockholm estimated the passing distance to be too close so made small alterations of course to starboard, also not detected by the Andrea Doria, to pass the Andria Doria on her port side. At night in clear visibility it's impossible to tell if visibility ahead is reduced and where the poor visibility begins. There is much argument about which ship saw the other first and what the relative aspects of the were but when they did see each other both continued with their intended actions. The Andrea Doris altered a little further to port and the Stockholm realised that in order to pass the Andrea Doria to port a very large and quick alteration of course to starboard was required. This brought the ships together with the inevitable result.
This has very quickly become legitimately one of my very favorite TH-cam channels. All of these stories are incredibly told, with great detail. Well done, Waterline Stories! And thanks!
Wow, thank you!
😮😮@@waterlinestories
No radio contact from either ship. That part of the story always gets me.
somehow that's the companies fault I bet according to the other two groups involved. That being sailors and family. The three way arguments get pretty interesting when blame is being assigned. Its the one common factor in all these stories.
@@robert48044 with no contact between the boats its both crews faults whether they want to admit it or not. Different industry but working with oversized trucks and loads on the highway, mile markers are called out so that they know when they are going to meet one another and the pilot trucks usually decided where they will pull off and let the other pass, or where a safe pass can be made. Its almost unthinkable that 2 ships in those conditions wouldn't radio one another and communicate their intent to one another.
@@BType13X2 especially, because there is only one person "piloting" the truck and there are many crew members on a ship. People do forget about very basic stuff, even if it's the daily routine. I have left home without my phone, wallet or keys. But how can something like this be overlooked, when multiple people are supposed to pay attention?
@HandyMan657 always gets you? As in more than one time? How many times have you watched this video??? It's only 8 hours old...
@@WormBurger You realize other creators have made videos about this tragedy as well right? And that this has been reported on well before youtube was a thing. Everytime I hear this story I think about the lack of radio communication as well, everything that happened was completely avoidable with a 30 second radio conversation.
Enjoying the 3D models of the vessels - Nice touch! 🚢 Always captivated by the detail with which these tales are expressed and learning about maritime procedures in the process. Details also amplify the tragic loss of life that could otherwise been have avoided. This tale at least had the majority of those aboard evacuated. Components of this tale reminded me of the Sewol Ferry Tragedy. Ever heard of it? I was in Korea when it happened and it shocked the country to a standstill, with memorials and a sadness that spread throughout the whole country. Each passing day bringing new revelations one could hardly comprehend. Acts of bravery by crew and civilians never to be seen again. Revelations of a cowardly Captain, build up to a nation wide man hunt and near impeachment of the country’s President. I think your narration on this tragic event would be quite poignant… Anyhow - thanks for the intriguing content as always. Kind regards from JHB.
Howsit. I'm working on the Sewol video at the moment.
Which part of Joburg are you from? I grew up in Bedfordview.
Excellent analysis. My late father in law, Istvan Rabovsky and his dancing partner/first wife Nora Kovach were passengers. There are accounts of Hungarian ballet dancers on the deck in their underwear, well, that was them. We lost Istvan aged 90 a few years ago but he would share his personal account of that day with me many times, although he was never really able to explain to me how the collision happened, only what it felt like to be in it. This video has answered so many questions for me. Many thanks.
The man who managed to sleep until he was rescued… honestly I need his sleeping regimen.
If I recall correctly, he had a back injury and was on narcotics at the time.
likely morphine or laudanum, they didn't even need prescription before 1960s in some European countries...
@@lewismartinez5130 Also, the Stockholm was almost an icebreaker. I've read that it ripped so smoothly into the Andrea Doria's hull that very little was felt.
Natural class in your presentations. Thanks for such well researched and quality content. You'd make any captain proud.
Supporting the channel from the start here from East london south Africa
My brutha from another mutha 🤛🏻
One of the best, if not the best, channels for maritime tragedies. 👍🏻
Thanks 👍🏻
I agree 100% , and his attention to detail is fantastic . I'm hoping he'll do one on the 79 fastnet race .
Passing a ship starboard to starboard, without even a radio call, is unfathomable.
The use of radio between ships for the purposes of collision avoidance has always and still is officially discouraged. On a number of occasions the use of radio has contributed to a collision rather than avoided it. This is because it's by no means certain which ship each one is talking to and the possibility of a misunderstanding is great, especially if the two ships have little or no knowledge of each other's or a common language. I'm not even sure that in 1956 it was easy for ships to communicate bridge to bridge, which would have been required on this occasion.
Andrea Doria was trying to avoid the Nantucket Shoals. She would have been farther to the left of the Stockholm if their radar was set to the proper range and the captain actually knew where he was.
I remember when you started the channel, and how you said you were looking forward growing it to the point where you could implement all the the ideas, research, production values and presentation that you wanted to. I think it’s fair to say that you’ve managed it!
🤣 Thanks. Still loads of ideas. I feel like we are having incremental steps. Great to see someone who's been around since the start.
@@waterlinestories success breeds success! Looking forward to seeing them put into action over the upcoming months and years.
Supporting this channel from Uganda Africa
Awesome. Always Great to see people from Africa.
Cool!!! 😎
Gods peace from west Michigan. (The good part)
Thank-you for these stories. We would have never known about them if you hadn't posted.
Most detailed and accurate marine review ever
And his voice makes me wet
Except the 10x they show the wrong Stockholm in pictures. The 2 stacker shown is an earlier ship that was sold before the end of WW2.
@@J.R.in_WVConsidering the pre-war Stockholm is by far the lesser known of the various ships of that name, it’s quite careless.
Check out BrickImmortar, insanely detailed and well made Maritime accident case reviews
Not.
As always, a great forensic video description of events. Very nice.
Thanks
Being a true thalassophobe, and with the captivating way you tell a story, I feel like I'm within the experience. Thrilling times :) ... Thanks for yet another great one, WS!
You are afraid of the sea?
great series of videos from you, just discovered your channel today. As an aside, I continuously telling my team that same saying "You don't get what you expect, you get what you inspect" a saying I've had for years and never fails to be true!
Another masterpiece Paul, one could listen to you for hours👍 Many greetings from Würzburg :)
Great to see you again. Hope all is well.
I'm doing okay and what about you^^? The production quality, narration and cinematography is incredible, thanks for sharing these stories with us🙏🏼
I'm from Hull UK that was once the biggest fishing port on earth, we had an especially bad tragedy in 1968 where 3 trawlers ( the triple trawler tragedy ) were lost in 1 trip with 60 men lost . It would be fascinating to see this channel tell the story
Thanks. I hadn't heard of it. I'll check it out. A number off years ago I looked at buying flats in Hull too rent out. Never pulled the trigger.
@@waterlinestories Yeah , You dodged a bullet there mate doing that means you would probably have to come here lol
@@waterlinestoriesAvoid any investment in the UK, is sinking faster than any ship in your stories 😂
Another great story from my favorite story teller. I wonder why people didn't talk to each other since they had radio's, crazy. Thanks pal 😉😉😉
its 2024, by now its safe to assume based on historical records that ships usually LIST first before they go down, and that with such design of the lifeboats and deployment systems, in a listing scenario, HALF, if not all of them, will become unusable.....luckily we already have a better design from those hyper clever naval engineers capable of conceiving a 5 casino 23 deck 5 pool cruise ships...right? right?
Unless a ship takes damage directly to the bow or stern a list is unavoidable. That's why ships are designed to just accept that a list is inevitable and they instead try and slow or stop it. Water tight doors and bulkheads keep the flooding contained and then you can counter flood to right the ship. Life boats also have a range of acceptable listing. Listing to a limited degree is completely normal even for a ship that is not flooding. Consider that when the Costa concordia sank the listing only got bad enough to affect life boat operation because the crew was negligent and did not call an abandoned ship soon enough. Other cases of sinking are either older ships not built to modern safety standards or the listing had no effect on life boats operation.
@@jasonirwin4631 given all those facts you explain I still find it kind of stupid that more efforts are not invested in lifeboats that deploy no matter what, no matter what side they are in, and whatever position the ship finds itself in...I wish I was naval engineer levels of clever though, to tackle that and make myself rich.
@@guachingman There are life boats that can be quickly and safely deployed no matter what, and there have been for a while. Problem is they cost a bit more than the simpler kinds so, well... :P
Statistics claim the inflatable liferafts are safer than lifeboats to a large extent, as long as there is no fire 🔥, I have talked to two Survivors from the Estonia (aquaintabces to my parents), according to them the boats where worse of than the rafts in the high steep waves.
Modern ships are designed to launch their lifeboats in much worse lists than back in the day.
"pick up the darn phone" still telling new hires that to this day "but i sent an email"
(This has nothing to do with the ship, but just the phone anxiety memories making me laugh.) I’m assuming you’re somewhere around my age (I’m 33). When I first graduated college and got my first full time job, my god, was phone anxiety a thing. It’s way better now but I bet it’s even worse for gen Z. I at least grew up when “oh, I need to talk to my doctor. Let me call.” Now I can send a message.
Things are so much easier but that phone anxiety? That’s a real one.
And yes… when I first started around 22? There were times I’d email, get no response and walk across the entire college campus I worked at just to get an answer. If I was that bad, I feel bad both for gen Z, and the people onboarding them.
😂 why solve a simple problem in 2 minutes on the phone when I can hide behind an email and let it escalate over a few hours and then call my boss to solve a major problem that's gotten out of my control.
@@OfftheWallTalesI’m almost 40, and I go out of my way to avoid talking on the phone. 😅 Phone anxiety sure is real.
@@nyanbinary1717 But is it rational? The only type of phone anxiety I get is knowing that I'll have to wait hours and navigate 1000 robo menus before I solve my problem. If I can talk to a human being and it takes 30min or less I'm pleased as punch every time
@@johnconnor2572 Oh no, of course it’s not rational. I recognize that I could just spend 5 minutes on the phone to make an appointment, but can I? Probably not.
Excellent analysis.
Love these. Always going to be a good day when you release a new episode.
Thanks, I really appreciate that👍🏻
This channel is fantastic. Well-informed and well told.
This is a great channel, I'm relatively new to it, I love the way each story is told, such detail and told in an interesting way that leaves you wanting more, well done.
Thanks that's great to hear.
i wonder why the ships are not more "chatty" and just say "i see you on radar, do you see me?" Especially in the Pre-Satelite era where a direct communication would be a good source of information.
"supp dude" - one radio guy tells the other
Titanic told the California to shut up.
You didn't know who to call. It's not that simple. It could be any vessel replying complicating things further. Under normal circumstancies following the COLREG ensures safe passage. Today we have AIS making radio coms easier.
The use of radio between ships for the purposes of collision avoidance has always and still is officially discouraged. On a number of occasions the use of radio has contributed to a collision rather than avoided it. This is because it's by no means certain which ship each one is talking to and the possibility of a misunderstanding is great, especially if the two ships have little or no knowledge of each other's or a common language. I'm not even sure that in 1956 it was easy for ships to communicate bridge to bridge, which would have been required on this occasion.
@@simonjohn9525 thanks for some insight, just "talking" to each other would not solve the problem if both ships are clueless about each others exact position...
Such an under-rated channel. Amazing story telling.
I have enjoyed binge watching your channel. You are clear, concise, and intelligent in your delivery. You also have excellent humility (what you mentioned in the Edmund Fitzgerald video). Thank you for wonderful content. Keep it up!
Thanks. I'm glad that comes through. Thanks for watching
Supporting this amazing channel from land locked Woodstock Illinois 🏴☠️
Fantastic narration and visual story telling
Love your channel. Really interesting, can't get enough. Much love from the UK
Awesome. Thanks, that's great to hear
Cpt Calamai is one hell of a Champ...willing to go down with his Ship.. even in the face of rescue.. these are one of the more better endings despite the unfortunate loss of lives. May their souls Rest.
He took the sinking quite hard and it affected him quite negatively, never wanting to go to sea again. Calamai’s last words before his death in 1972 were reported by his daughters as ‘Are all the passengers safe?’ His valour shouldn’t be surprising considering he served as an officer in the Regia Marina in both World Wars (decorated in both), serving aboard a destroyer during the First and then as a Lt-Cdr taking charge of the battleship Caio Duilio during the Nov. 1940 Taranto raid and running her aground to avoid sinking in deeper water. Between the wars, he even received a silver Medal for Civil Valour while serving as an officer aboard SS Conte Grande. He was quite a good sailor.
One of the most tragic parts is the two lives lost as a result of injuries sustained in the panicked evacuation.
Thanks again for a very interesting story! 🥇👍
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Thanks...excellent video. Both ships should have been on the radio to each other...to confirm they're both in agreement as to which side they'll pass....
The use of radio between ships for the purposes of collision avoidance has always and still is officially discouraged. On a number of occasions the use of radio has contributed to a collision rather than avoided it. This is because it's by no means certain which ship each one is talking to and the possibility of a misunderstanding is great, especially if the two ships have little or no knowledge of each other's or a common language. I'm not even sure that in 1956 it was easy for ships to communicate bridge to bridge, which would have been required on this occasion.
You say “complete” just like emperor Palpatine 😂
All the best to everyone
Love this channel paired with Mentour pilot. Alternate between air and sea.
Yeah he's great
LOL - I just came here from there - in this instance the YT algorithm made a good recommendation...
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Your content is amazing! Thank you!
Thanks 👍🏻
❤😅😂❤@@waterlinestories
Classy style. [youtuber] Two BEAUTIFUL boats. Sad end.
My grandfather worked for Socony Mobil Oil Company as a truck driver in NYC and made deliveries of their products to businesses and gas stations. He told us that he used to have to back all the way down the piers in Manhattan with an 18-wheeler to make deliveries to the ships. When this accident happened and the ship was on the news, he told his family about how he'd made a delivery of barrels of oil to the Andrea Doria and commented on how beautiful of a ship it was.
Fantastic video as always
👍🏻 thanks
Very good program...really enjoyed that one , thanks
Great Video. Clear and well-explained. 👍
Thanks 👌🏻
'...it took 10 hours, it eased into the water like an old man into a nice warm bath - no offense'
🤣 not the imagery I would have chosen.
George Costanza, a national treasure? Lol
Well presented. Echoes of the Empress of Ireland tragedy in this story.
That’s what I said. It’s eerie how much the two resemble each other.
@@nyanbinary1717 and titanic, how come andrea dorias watertight compartments never went right up to the deck above? just like titanic
Awesome storytelling. Even if not the most effective rescue ever, it is rather inspiring seeing people of so many different nationalities come to the aid a stricken vessel. Mariners know their fellow mariners would do the same thing if it happened to them.
Excellent explanation of the event.
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I sailed on the Astoria (Stockholm) to the high Arctic in 2018 it had the ship's bell in a cabinet it had been recovered by a diver on the Andrea Doria and returned many years latter.
Been waiting for this one!
I hope you enjoy it.
The oceans cover more area then anything on earth and 2 ships can't manage to avoid eachother lol
Fog is screwy, the sea giveth and the sea taketh. It gives us fish, it takes our ships and lives if ye fail to respect it. There’s a reason the Greeks feared Poseidon.
The most important rule, "trust, but, verify" was ignored.
Thank you sir, I love history of most kinds and especially the sea, greetings from Ukraine
Remember that Seinfield episode when one of the survivors of the Andrea Doria gets preferential treatment over George for a new apartment 😂.
It's funny how lorry drivers can never stop talking on the radios while these two were reluctant to exchange their assumptions
I was just thinking what if Costa Concordia captain Schettino had headed Andrea Doria, that guy would have certainly dashed off in the first life boat itself
Fantastic video, as always!
I wonder if this inspired the movie ghost ship. It was an Italian ocean liner named Antonia Graza that went missing in the 60s and was found floating in the ocean.
Howsit! Awesome vid as always!
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I guess radar was so new, they hadn't internalized the concept of Constant Bearing, Decreasing Range (CBDR). Pretty simple stuff to figure out if you on a collision course if you know what CDRD means.
Nothing wrong with passing starboard to starboard, as long everyone has good situational awareness. Fog plus a lack of contact should have created enough doubt to abandon the starboard to starboard plan and fall back to the standard port to port. If you keep turning and the other guy keeps counteracting your moves, it's time to change your plan.
In 1956 radars were unstabilised, i.e. they showed everything relative to the ship's heading, so as the ship altered course, even by one degree, the whole picture would rotate. It wasn't possible to monitor a constant bearing without taking a note of the ship's head when taking a bearing and plotting that on a paper plotting sheet. In 1956 it's unlikely that there was much radar training.
Both ships detected each other by radar fine on their starboard bow, were due to pass at ¼ mile (very close in reduced visibility), but could not see each other visually This is not a good situation. As the ships were meeting end on or nearly end on the collision regulations at the time required each ship to alter course to starboard but this would have meant crossing the other ships bow. The Andrea Doria altered course slightly to port to open the passing distance but this small alteration was not (and could not) be picked up by the Stockholm. This alteration put the Stockholm fine on the Andrea Doria's starboard bow, this led the crew of the Andrea Doria to think that they would pass the Stockholm on her starboard side against convention. Based on the previous radar plots the crew of the Stockholm estimated the passing distance to be too close so made small alterations of course to starboard, also not detected by the Andrea Doria, to pass the Andria Doria on her port side. Neither ship was aware of the other's plan. At night in clear visibility it's impossible to tell if visibility ahead is reduced and where the poor visibility begins. There is much argument about which ship saw the other first and what the relative aspects of the were but when they did see each other both continued with their intended actions. The Andrea Doris altered a little further to port and the Stockholm realised that in order to pass the Andrea Doria to port a very large and quick alteration of course to starboard was required. This brought the ships together with the inevitable result.
The use of radio between ships for the purposes of collision avoidance has always and still is officially discouraged. On a number of occasions the use of radio has contributed to a collision rather than avoided it. This is because it's by no means certain which ship each one is talking to and the possibility of a misunderstanding is great, especially if the two ships have little or no knowledge of each other's or a common language. I'm not even sure that in 1956 it was easy for ships to communicate bridge to bridge, which would have been required on this occasion.
One thing that (I've read) was decisive to the Andrea Doria's sinking was the fuel tanks. Yes, he said they floated - but there is an problem: the procedure should be to flood them with salt water, once empty. Exactly to act as ballast, and help stabilize the ship.
But it costs money, since you have to wash them after. So, they were empty. And the controls for the valves to fill them were bellow water after the crash - so no one could correct it after the fact.
Had they being full of water - as per manual procedure - the Andrea Doria would have not sank.
Very well done. I’ve read the book on the event and this is well balanced when using the book as the reference. The viewer must remember that maritime radar was in its infancy. I forgot which of the officers had not even been trained on it. Regardless, the hero was the Ilê de France. I’m glad the conventions are standardized today.,
According to George Costanza, this boat went into the water like a old man into a hot bath
Great video as usual!
Just 1 correction to ur pronounciation of "Andrea Doria". Doria is pronounced DO-ria, not Do-RI-a, the emphasis is on the DO, not the RI.
And Andrea is not AN-dre-a. It is An-DRE-a. Because the namesake Andrea Doria was a famous Italian admiral and a male. There was even a statue of him on the ship.
@@Jens-Viper-Nobel the statue of Admiral Andrea Doria was salvaged a few years ago.
A little nitpick: the picture of the Cape Ann at 19:00 isn't the SS Cape Ann that assisted the Andrea Doria. That ship operated between 1943 and 1968 and was scrapped. This one is the current Cape Ann that was completed in 1962 and is currently laid up in the National Defense Reserve Fleet in Virginia.
And several time a photo of a ship with two smoke stacks were used to show the Stockholm. And several times a single stacked Stockholm is shown.
The single stacks one is the correct ship involved in the accident.
Also once, a twin stacked white paint Andrea Doria was shown.
The accident Andrea Doria is also a single stacked ship. I do not believe she was ever painted all white as she was used strictly as an "ocean line." Which at the time "usually" had a black painted hulls. The Stockholm, as we see, was one of a few exceptions.
I didn't know the incorrect Cape Anne was used here. I'm not that familiar with either naval ship using this name, nor their history's. I've only seen aerial photos where we see her 1956 named ship standing by the stricken Andrea Doria.
Good catch!
Didn't George Costanza go after an Andrea Doria survivor? Over an apartment or something? Well, it sounds like something George would have done.
Yeah the guy beat him out for an apartment. Kramer had a book called _Astonishing Tales of the Sea_ that had a chapter about the _Andrea Doria_ sinking.
It's strange that I always hope that the outcome will be avoided even knowing what will happen. As usual, wonderfully told and a likely explanation.
This and Green Dot Aviation are the best channels on youtube
Thanks.
The phonetic accent is onthe O of Doria....that said you are great at telling these stories...thank you.
I am binge watching this channel, the addiction is bad man
Down the rabbit hole. Enjoy
ANN-dreah DOOR-eeah. I grew up on Cape Cod.
Excellent work!
👌🏻 thanks
Great vid keep ‘em up!
Thanks👍🏻
I feel that with the captain wanting to go down with it…people lost their lives on his watch, whether or not if it was his fault or not, that’s hard to live with.
Very good, Commander Data!
AN-dria DOR-ia
When two ships are closing each other "show a red and port your helm (which is old tiller terminology for turn to starboard".
I was seven years old when this happened. The network news stations sent helicopters out to take film and rush back. The film was then processed and broadcast. Before video tape and broadcasting live from the site. Very basic technology of the age. Appropriately enough, this was the year NBC broadcast a live dramatization of Walter Lord's A Night To Remember. Very good documentary.
Isn't putting the rudder hard over and engines full astern another mistake? I'm not an expert, but I've heard that that combination of orders causes the props to cavitate and disrupt the water flow around the rudder. Essentially like locking your breaks in a skid, I.E. no stearing any more.
Those ships moving on that map were sick. Helps explain what happened too
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Greetings from Benson, NC
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I lived in Cape Cod, the area of the Collision, and listened to the radio reports that morning. I wanted Dad to rent a plane to go take a look. He thought about in, but wisely desided against it. Later, as a lobsterman, i visited AD's sinking site. I well understand the variability of the weather, especially fog all throughout the Cape area. From all that I've read Stockholm plotted the radar returns while AD simply used "Seamans Eye" to determine S's range, course, and bearing. With the radars both ships had, plotting is a Must to accurately locate the other ship. The AD used course changes too small to be readily apparent, while S simply made minute course changes to maintain the course the captain set. From all that seems to bear on the accident, the AD made an illegal left turn in front of S.
Further, the AD failed to follow the builders stability requirements by not properly ballasting, leading to the excessive list as the narrator says. The routine and regular failure to ballast, as per the builders instructions, could well lead to the loss of limited liability on the part of the owners , the Italian Home lines. Thus, the Italian Lines settled their lawsuits, absorbing the entire $30MM loss of the AD.
What no one has satisfactorily explained is the variance in the actual visual sightings of the two crews. The AD lookouts reported lights to starboard for a green to green passing as they expected. Lookouts for the S called lights to port for a proper and expected port to port or red to red passing. These calls were made Before the collision, so it appears neither sets of lookouts are trying to cover a mistake at the time. Somebody has to be, Not Lying, but just plain wrong.
19:41 "200 panicked crew men, and very few passangers.."?
Why does that sound so familiar?
So, if usually half of the boats are unusable, if the vessel lists, should there be more boats?
Man, your posting frequency has really gone up lately. I love it, but I hope you take care of yourself too, buddy! 😊🙌
Thanks. Yeah it's taking some doing.
Why use radio when ESP is so much easier? What a senseless loss. Worse yet, at least 22 scuba divers have died exploring the wreck.
The use of radio between ships for the purposes of collision avoidance has always and still is officially discouraged. On a number of occasions the use of radio has contributed to a collision rather than avoided it. This is because it's by no means certain which ship each one is talking to and the possibility of a misunderstanding is great, especially if the two ships have little or no knowledge of each other's or a common language. I'm not even sure that in 1956 it was easy for ships to communicate bridge to bridge, which would have been required on this occasion.
I haven't even listened yet but I'm very curious to hear your input on the Baltimore key bridge incident
I think I'm gonna hold tight and find out what actually happened.
@@waterlinestoriesof course. My brother is ACOE and is there now
Interesting. He will probably be closer to this. I'm sure he will have an inside line or at least something from the rumour mill.
@@waterlinestories He's kind of an asshole but I will definitely get a scoop
@@waterlinestories I wrote that my brother is a blank... Glad I didn't post it. What I know is there is a lot of in fighting , it's keeping things from getting done properly while everyone argues over which way it should be done. ACOE has to stay there till it's done tho.
This story reminds me so much of the Empress of Ireland, down to the reinforced bow of the other ship.
However, the SS Storstad was an ice breaker prior to be a collier.
Did you know the fictional ship Andrea Graza from the 2002 horror movie Ghost Ship based their ship design on the Andrea Doria?
are there collision warning systems like in aviation (TCAS) on the ships in the seas now?
Yes. And radar will give an extended line of direction to visualise the path.
@@waterlinestories cool
It seems like every ship incident involves a severe list to port or starboard which eliminates half of the available boats. Are there any lifeboat systems that are designed to be deployed, say, from the center of the deck instead of gravity systems from the sides of the ship?
Brave man taking on Italian name pronunciation 👏🏻😂
I have a hard time pronouncing words from all over the world😂
I remember this like it was yesterday. Back then, I thought that a war was going to break out between Italy and Sweden at any moment.
Always hilarious to me when a captain wants to go down with the ship
So is it weird that these water tight areas meant to allow the ship to survive always seem to fail?
Like i always tell my gf, communication is key. Amazing that not a single person tried to communicate, blows my fckn mind
@@chrism4008 Come on Chris! You should surely insert the word ‘try’?
It's sad to think if they'd just contacted each other they could've just agreed and passed each other!
Brillant as usual
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I always have issues about port and starbord. Why don’t ships use left and right it’s very confusing.
Never heard of stationary Light Ships before, cool !
Radar assisted collision.
Pre reflection plotter, arpa and of course, VHF radio.
Watching blips on a radar screen is not the way to avoid a collision. Each ship should have established and maintained a radar plot which would have established their CPA (closest point of approach) and the plot used to establish unexpected course changes on the part of the other vessel.
You do realize that this was in 1956 and because of this and other accidents, new regulations and safer sea travel were created right?.... Apparently not 🤦
Both ships detected each other by radar fine on their starboard bow, were due to pass at ¼ mile (very close in reduced visibility), but could not see each other visually This is not a good situation. As the ships were meeting end on or nearly end on the collision regulations at the time required each ship to alter course to starboard but this would have meant crossing the other ships bow. The Andrea Doria altered course slightly to port to open the passing distance but this small alteration was not (and could not) be picked up by the Stockholm. This alteration put the Stockholm fine on the Andrea Doria's starboard bow, this led the crew of the Andrea Doria to think that they would pass the Stockholm on her starboard side against convention. Based on the previous radar plots the crew of the Stockholm estimated the passing distance to be too close so made small alterations of course to starboard, also not detected by the Andrea Doria, to pass the Andria Doria on her port side. At night in clear visibility it's impossible to tell if visibility ahead is reduced and where the poor visibility begins. There is much argument about which ship saw the other first and what the relative aspects of the were but when they did see each other both continued with their intended actions. The Andrea Doris altered a little further to port and the Stockholm realised that in order to pass the Andrea Doria to port a very large and quick alteration of course to starboard was required. This brought the ships together with the inevitable result.