Good initial impressions review Matt. I would be interested in a follow-up after you have put them through their paces. edit to add: Do these have a Newton rating? Seems these days all manufacturers aught to include this for serious consideration/comparison.
The heavy one looks a lot like The SPES AP, the way it is cut, plus the extra thing for the mask to go in. Looks nice! If u dont want to use it with bib underneath, just close it tight under the Mask bib, u then essencially got a "normal" throat protection, or am i wrong?
Always eat more pie. Does the light version allow for the addition of solid couters or other elbow protection? Taking a sidesword cut on the elbow just... sucks. Padded or no.
Have you ever tried using waist belts for any of the jackets? Does it make it better/worse? Maybe the padding is too stiff. I've never used a traning jacket I'd imagine a waist belt making ot more comfortable and sitting tighter to your body.
A lot of HEMA jackets are a bit too short to effectively use a belt, but if you have a jacket that is long enough and struggle with the bottom bit feeling "loose" then sure, a belt is an excellent solution. Just make sure your belt of choice can survive a swing from a blunt sword.
Mail are protection against edge weapon, not feder, or any edged weapon simulator for that matter. I guess mail would work to a certain degree. But for the cushioning against blunt metal hitting you over and over, padded armor is still required. So we're kind of back to the point of why bother, just wear a jacket that's dedicated to HEMA sparring like regular people.
Mail protects against cuts and thrusts so its pointless when fighting with blunt weapons. Mail gives no protection against impact *however* th-cam.com/video/AkrSnSCgfmM/w-d-xo.html
lukutiss1324 With a Gambeson under - cause you will need it-, sure you're way OK but it's quite "overkill" against blunt edge weapons IMO + prepare your bottles of water compared to the kinds of jacket Matt presents us IMHO though you still need some :)
I wonder if HEMA jackets would be good winter jackets. It's hot where I live, but maybe in the winter it could be good. No pockets though. Are they good against rain?
They'd work in a pinch, but they're designed to be as cool as possible given how bulky they are, the exact opposite of what you want in a winter jacket.
I've worn mine to and from training during winter. It worked, but a normal winter jacket is much better. While my torso was hot enough, the jackets sleeves was a bit too thin, with a normal jacket I can have a sweater inside to give me an extra layer for the arms. I haven't tested it in rain.
What do you think of the idea of making masks with no bib and creating jackets or gorgets with more detailed neck protection? So for example a high collared jacket (I think Gajardoni made one that you reviewed?) Perhaps with a low profile gorget underneath snd then you have a bibless mask, allowing the jacket collar/gorget to take over neck protection without the bib getting in the way and making it less comfortable as well as (I hypothesize at least) increasing mobility of your head as you don't have a bib jamming into your chest or your gorget/jacket bulk making it easier to turn your head up, down, left, or right.
Are there any reviews of good HEMA bags? The red dragon MK2 says it should hold sword, forearm, shin, elbow, and gloves too, but I dont see any pics of it doing that so I'm hesitant to buy without seeing what it can actually hold.
Would the heavy jacket be ok for steel feder sparring or would I have to upgrade when I buy a feder. Still on the synthetic sword at the min, buying bits here and there when I can afford.. money is an issue...
What do you think about these jackets versus the Black Armoury jacket you reviewed last year? I'm specifically looking for longsword purposes, but any comparisons would be great.
Has anyone tried this gambeson for longsword sparring ? I suppose for light sparring is perfect , but I am not so sure about tournament level.. Has anyone ever tried it in sparring ?
Hey Matt! I was wondering how combat in a late medieval or renaissance-era pitched battle might differ from the HEMA combat that we practice today, considering most of the treatises that HEMA is derived from are based on one-on-one duel situations. Are they the same? Or do many of the "rules" go out the window once a battle ensues?
Dill Pick Well there aren't many "rules" outlined in the fencing treatises, other than various masters such as Hutton for example saying you shouldn't use some of the more brutal cuts like the "Italian strike" in a fencing school setting against your training partner. Modern rules in modern competitions exist to make the competitiors more safe, in the same way that MMA doesn't allow eye gouging or groin shots, even though both would be valid in a street fight. Back during the period Fiore mentions tons of nasty things such as dislocations, bone breaks, flying teeth from a pommel strike groin and knee kicks and other things that would definitely never be allowed in modern HEMA competition but was very much a part of historical HEMA. As far as rules back then, in Battles, in which I doubt you would be using a sword in the first place, I'm pretty sure almost anything went however it wasn't usually in formation where the majority of people died, it was in fleeing. In something closer to the style of combat we're trying to emulate, unarmored dueling, an official judicial duel would likely have some rules which I would imagine you would incur the wrath of the organizers because you cheated by using something that was permitted to kill your opponent, like a simple magical charm or something who had you, which skewed God's result. I would imagine disobeying the rules in that context could result in death
oh, they definitely hit harder and are stiffer. its just in our "club" we dont require jackets for RD swords, but anything more requires a jacket. i just dont wanna spend more money on a jacket than what i need to.
We don't really duel in the historical sense. We train, spar and compete. And about armour: Some train in/with armour if they can afford the armour (it's really expensive) and if they are interested in the treatises covering armoured fighting.
It was indeed, for their launch, so that the customers could see the video first through their advertising. But thanks for reminding me to make it public now.
For what it's worth, I've been doing HEMA very regulary for two years now and my first (and current) jacket is a proper Gambeson (no armpit holes like you get in some) and I've never had any problems with it and I've done Broadsword (my main weapon of choice), Messer, Sword and Buckler and even Montante
Hermes those are okay but i find that they do more to prevent you from being cut than bruised, they help but the modern gambeson will keep you from looking like you do naked paintball
In the early days of HEMA that's all we pretty much had and that's what everyone wore. Now there are no tournaments that allow them because the standards have increased for safety. Modern HEMA jackets must be at least 350N for puncture resistance (some are now 800N) and the padding in HEMA jackets is typically more rigid to protect better against blows.
Throat protection seems still quite messy. There are bits on masks, bits on jackets and gorgets. I feel like it will take the three designed together to provide a good coverage for the back of the head, the side of the neck... all while avoiding any constriction. Start with a suspension system and risk stepping away from sport fencting gear production methods.
Hey, Matt! Don't mean to nitpick but could you maybe invest a bit on the acoustics of the room you record in mostly? Something to soften the echo a bit would be nice, it's been jarring me a bit since I started watching your videos. Curtains or a few blocks of styrofoam behind the camera should do the trick. Love your videos and carry on the good work. Cheers!
"...about 13 stone." I'm American. We haven't standardized our rocks all to one size yet. What's that in a real measurement system? Yes, I can go Google it, but I wanted to irritate some red coats today, and I don't have any tea to throw into a harbor, or ice down.
That jacket doesn't look better than most of the stuff that is on the market and that gorget-thing seems outright dangerous! I must say, these Red Dragon products which are promoted on this channel, were rather shitty so far. After lots of expensive disappointments from all kinds of producers, I will only go with custom-sized orders and items that are directly based on historical designs (e.g. maximilian gorget for neck protection) from now on.
I suppose it's a bit of a compromise, yes, in an ideal world I would go for something that was bespoke but I doubt I can afford it, especially as I am just beginning HEMA and I do trust Matt's opinion on this stuff since I have only seen good informative knowledge on his site.
Gorjay? Gorget. It is funny to hear people say gorjay when it is gorgette in french. Enough people say gor jay these days that the dictionary people will need to change the gorget entry.
Really appreciate the shout out on this. It's good seeing how these things are developing and nice to get a credit.☺
Yup, great videos :-)
"not because we're insane, but because we get hit by swords". So why are we getting hit by swords?
For the same reason people jump with parachutes and bungee
Paweł Andonis Gawralidis Dobrzański herbu Leliwa. Because they are insane
Paweł Andonis Gawralidis Dobrzański herbu Leliwa. *parachutes and bungee/bungy
Because in order to be able to hit a guy with a sword without going to prison, you have to let him have a chance to hit you.
...be cause we're In sane?
Good initial impressions review Matt. I would be interested in a follow-up after you have put them through their paces.
edit to add: Do these have a Newton rating? Seems these days all manufacturers aught to include this for serious consideration/comparison.
+Paul Alvarado *ought
they do now.
I like the light jacket for rapier. I'm still dying to get the new version of the Easton Sabre.
Pretty impressed with the throat protection on the heavy jacket. Some good thinking there
The heavy one looks a lot like The SPES AP, the way it is cut, plus the extra thing for the mask to go in. Looks nice!
If u dont want to use it with bib underneath, just close it tight under the Mask bib, u then essencially got a "normal" throat protection, or am i wrong?
Looks very effective, especially the neck protection.
I would prefer a very light jackets with plastic plates for impact protection. Mobility keeps me safe not heavy padding
The problem with that solution is when a blade breaks it slides straight between the gaps of the plates and stabs you.
Always eat more pie.
Does the light version allow for the addition of solid couters or other elbow protection?
Taking a sidesword cut on the elbow just... sucks. Padded or no.
I like the red parts! Put a crest there, its perfect.
The Union Jack is back. Cool.
Have you ever tried using waist belts for any of the jackets? Does it make it better/worse? Maybe the padding is too stiff. I've never used a traning jacket I'd imagine a waist belt making ot more comfortable and sitting tighter to your body.
A lot of HEMA jackets are a bit too short to effectively use a belt, but if you have a jacket that is long enough and struggle with the bottom bit feeling "loose" then sure, a belt is an excellent solution. Just make sure your belt of choice can survive a swing from a blunt sword.
How does wearing armour (riveted mail) compare to a jacket? More/less protection? More/less weight? More/less manoeuvrability?
I guess you would wear the mail over something like that, because in historical armor you had some padded armor or gambeson under your mail armor.
More protection, more weight, about the same maneuverability.
Mail are protection against edge weapon, not feder, or any edged weapon simulator for that matter.
I guess mail would work to a certain degree. But for the cushioning against blunt metal hitting you over and over, padded armor is still required.
So we're kind of back to the point of why bother, just wear a jacket that's dedicated to HEMA sparring like regular people.
Mail protects against cuts and thrusts so its pointless when fighting with blunt weapons. Mail gives no protection against impact *however*
th-cam.com/video/AkrSnSCgfmM/w-d-xo.html
lukutiss1324 With a Gambeson under - cause you will need it-, sure you're way OK but it's quite "overkill" against blunt edge weapons IMO + prepare your bottles of water compared to the kinds of jacket Matt presents us IMHO though you still need some :)
I think I'm gonna get the heavy red dragon jacket. Gotta support my kind, lol.
What about wearing a traditional Gambeson?
no penetration rating on gabeson. also mostly no blade catchers. they are ok for normal training but i wouldn`t use one for sparring
I wonder if HEMA jackets would be good winter jackets. It's hot where I live, but maybe in the winter it could be good. No pockets though. Are they good against rain?
If you want to look like an idiot, you could wear one
I mean, "tough guys" wear biker jackets while walking around... I'd miss the pockets though x)
They'd work in a pinch, but they're designed to be as cool as possible given how bulky they are, the exact opposite of what you want in a winter jacket.
What about a proper Gambeson?
I've worn mine to and from training during winter. It worked, but a normal winter jacket is much better. While my torso was hot enough, the jackets sleeves was a bit too thin, with a normal jacket I can have a sweater inside to give me an extra layer for the arms. I haven't tested it in rain.
What do you think of the idea of making masks with no bib and creating jackets or gorgets with more detailed neck protection? So for example a high collared jacket (I think Gajardoni made one that you reviewed?) Perhaps with a low profile gorget underneath snd then you have a bibless mask, allowing the jacket collar/gorget to take over neck protection without the bib getting in the way and making it less comfortable as well as (I hypothesize at least) increasing mobility of your head as you don't have a bib jamming into your chest or your gorget/jacket bulk making it easier to turn your head up, down, left, or right.
review the new leon paul hema gloves!
Many thanks for this video and the links Matt, very instructive!
Im honestly surpised nobody else to my knowledge has done a jacket review on these
Nice to see a bit of colour though. All that black looks a little dorky.
Are there any reviews of good HEMA bags? The red dragon MK2 says it should hold sword, forearm, shin, elbow, and gloves too, but I dont see any pics of it doing that so I'm hesitant to buy without seeing what it can actually hold.
Would the heavy jacket be ok for steel feder sparring or would I have to upgrade when I buy a feder. Still on the synthetic sword at the min, buying bits here and there when I can afford.. money is an issue...
This is off topic, but I just saw you on the TV show "Ancient Assassins: Vlad's Impalers"
Good protection for body.Impressive thing,thank you sir for the feed back
How good those jackets would be on a historical battlefield?
Aldor as good as a padding jacket can be against a bullet
Better than nothing, but probably not as good as a multi-layered gambeson when it comes to stopping sharp edges.
Anything on their pants maybe? I'm thinking about getting them since they're dirt cheap and seem okay
that jacket looks great and very well priced
I think using buckets of dry sand would make for a better weight measurement system.
Is there an option to have extra plastic protection for shoulders (smth like SPES pro jacket)? Would be helpful for people with shoulder injuries! =)
Please do review of glaive/naginata/bisanto/guandao/bisento/war scythe
i actually like the red on the heavy one just my taste
What do you think about these jackets versus the Black Armoury jacket you reviewed last year? I'm specifically looking for longsword purposes, but any comparisons would be great.
Matt, do you think the light jacket is good enough for Rawling's plastic long sword fencing?
looking good today mate
13 stone hey... what century are you guys from
Do you ever wear these fencing jackets as a coat?
You can, in winter.
How does the pig face cost and where did you get it
Gajardoni mask? Will you review it?
Do you know where to get a tailored jacket
Has anyone tried this gambeson for longsword sparring ? I suppose for light sparring is perfect , but I am not so sure about tournament level.. Has anyone ever tried it in sparring ?
given how similar they are to the spes, i bet they do fine
Hey Matt! I was wondering how combat in a late medieval or renaissance-era pitched battle might differ from the HEMA combat that we practice today, considering most of the treatises that HEMA is derived from are based on one-on-one duel situations. Are they the same? Or do many of the "rules" go out the window once a battle ensues?
Dill Pick Well there aren't many "rules" outlined in the fencing treatises, other than various masters such as Hutton for example saying you shouldn't use some of the more brutal cuts like the "Italian strike" in a fencing school setting against your training partner.
Modern rules in modern competitions exist to make the competitiors more safe, in the same way that MMA doesn't allow eye gouging or groin shots, even though both would be valid in a street fight. Back during the period Fiore mentions tons of nasty things such as dislocations, bone breaks, flying teeth from a pommel strike groin and knee kicks and other things that would definitely never be allowed in modern HEMA competition but was very much a part of historical HEMA.
As far as rules back then, in Battles, in which I doubt you would be using a sword in the first place, I'm pretty sure almost anything went however it wasn't usually in formation where the majority of people died, it was in fleeing. In something closer to the style of combat we're trying to emulate, unarmored dueling, an official judicial duel would likely have some rules which I would imagine you would incur the wrath of the organizers because you cheated by using something that was permitted to kill your opponent, like a simple magical charm or something who had you, which skewed God's result. I would imagine disobeying the rules in that context could result in death
Wow, it looks like it's the best!
Matt do a video on open carry sword in texas that is in function since september 2nd!! I love it :-)
the lighter jacket. would that be good for black fencer broadsword? not thinking of going into steel for quite a while
oh, they definitely hit harder and are stiffer. its just in our "club" we dont require jackets for RD swords, but anything more requires a jacket. i just dont wanna spend more money on a jacket than what i need to.
Can you debunk monster quest series?
Do the HEMA practicioners ever do duels with full medieval armour ?
2:30 - 2:43 thats how long protective jacket takes to put on.
Plate armour takes about 10mins to put on
We don't really duel in the historical sense. We train, spar and compete. And about armour: Some train in/with armour if they can afford the armour (it's really expensive) and if they are interested in the treatises covering armoured fighting.
Most HEMA people focus on styles of fighting intended for unarmoured fighting. Armoured fighting technique looks very different.
I would have been nice to see a review after you used it for sparring.
Hey Matt, why is this video unlisted?
(I got here from the Facebook post by The Knight Shop if you are wondering.)
It was indeed, for their launch, so that the customers could see the video first through their advertising. But thanks for reminding me to make it public now.
sidesword guy needs love
are they YKK zips ?
Do you think the lighter one would work ok for Bolognese Sidesword?
Chris N it is advertised as a one-handed weapon jacket so it should be ok
Wait if you are 6'1" how freakin tall is lloyd?
MasterChief at least i mean i know thats over 5cm extra height but the difference is more than that
Anybody else thinking of The Venture Brothers? "...satin jacket, HEMA padded jacket!
I actually like the red and two color jackets to much black makes it hard to tell people apart.
What if you used a real gambeson?
For what it's worth, I've been doing HEMA very regulary for two years now and my first (and current) jacket is a proper Gambeson (no armpit holes like you get in some) and I've never had any problems with it and I've done Broadsword (my main weapon of choice), Messer, Sword and Buckler and even Montante
Hermes those are okay but i find that they do more to prevent you from being cut than bruised, they help but the modern gambeson will keep you from looking like you do naked paintball
In the early days of HEMA that's all we pretty much had and that's what everyone wore. Now there are no tournaments that allow them because the standards have increased for safety. Modern HEMA jackets must be at least 350N for puncture resistance (some are now 800N) and the padding in HEMA jackets is typically more rigid to protect better against blows.
Throat protection seems still quite messy. There are bits on masks, bits on jackets and gorgets. I feel like it will take the three designed together to provide a good coverage for the back of the head, the side of the neck... all while avoiding any constriction. Start with a suspension system and risk stepping away from sport fencting gear production methods.
Hey, Matt! Don't mean to nitpick but could you maybe invest a bit on the acoustics of the room you record in mostly? Something to soften the echo a bit would be nice, it's been jarring me a bit since I started watching your videos. Curtains or a few blocks of styrofoam behind the camera should do the trick.
Love your videos and carry on the good work. Cheers!
So this is basically going to be our zombie apocalypse armor, right ?
So strange that you use pounds for currency and stone for weight. Units are weird.
Stone is part of the lbs system, being 14lbs to a stone. And pounds currency is theoretically lbs of silver :)
I really thought we wear jackets because we are insane....im dissapointed :(
Don't do the Merkel in your video opener, raised the hair in my neck and made me hiss loudly at the screen. My dog is very confused now.
"...about 13 stone." I'm American. We haven't standardized our rocks all to one size yet. What's that in a real measurement system?
Yes, I can go Google it, but I wanted to irritate some red coats today, and I don't have any tea to throw into a harbor, or ice down.
A fat guy like me would just have to accept being bruised.
That jacket doesn't look better than most of the stuff that is on the market and that gorget-thing seems outright dangerous! I must say, these Red Dragon products which are promoted on this channel, were rather shitty so far. After lots of expensive disappointments from all kinds of producers, I will only go with custom-sized orders and items that are directly based on historical designs (e.g. maximilian gorget for neck protection) from now on.
I suppose it's a bit of a compromise, yes, in an ideal world I would go for something that was bespoke but I doubt I can afford it, especially as I am just beginning HEMA and I do trust Matt's opinion on this stuff since I have only seen good informative knowledge on his site.
Gorjay? Gorget. It is funny to hear people say gorjay when it is gorgette in french. Enough people say gor jay these days that the dictionary people will need to change the gorget entry.
th-cam.com/video/FXf88Sn0TF8/w-d-xo.html
It's now an english word and is pronounced correctly for english.
Yet another "It's pronounced talwar!" comment.
Yes. The dictionary pronunciation is gor jet for english. Sheesh.
gor·get
ˈɡôrjət/