Other browsers when making a sponsorship: Your browser is terrible and ours is 1000x better! Google when advertising their browser: Uhhhh, use it if you like it continue using it? I don't know, do what you want, some nerd out there will tell you which browser is better
It makes sense that AI Sada and AI Turo would be so strong. Not only because of having teams of only Pokémon with Base Stat Totals reaching 570 and 590, but they even say themselves “My battling abilities are peerless. They are built upon analysis of all the battles carried out by the various Champions of the Paldea region.”
@@Cr3zant Assuming Geeta is the _actual_ champion and we don't have an "acting champion" thing going on here with her like we did with Lance in GSC and HGSS. We know that Nemona most likely beat Geeta, but we see her continuing to adventure rather than holding the champion's position.
@@VestedUTuberExcept that's not how being a champion in Paldea works. In Paldea, being a champion isn't a position it's a rank. Anyone who makes it through the league challenge is a champion, and unlike in other regions they don't take over the champion spot from the person they defeated.
Geeta and Nemona aren’t the only Champion-Ranked Trainers to have ever existed in Paldea. And even if it only looked at the two of them, Nemona alone is still strong enough to get valuable data.
@@brocautry5063 Actually, you basically confirmed my suspicions. If that's how it works then it _is_ effectively the same as with Lance in GSC/HGSS, because the champion you need to beat to become one yourself _isn't_ the most recent champion. In either case, that means that the other champions aren't weaker than Gretta, they're _stronger._
I find it funny that Cheren ranked the absolute lowest since in a regular, casual B2W2 playthrough, I think Cheren is unironically the hardest gym leader in the entire franchise. If he spams Work Up, he can easily sweep your team of level 10s and his only real counter is if you overlevel a Riolu EDIT: I'm glad people are actually agreeing with me instead of just assuming I have a skill issue. I've replayed B2W2 more times than I can count and Cheren is the only leader I still struggle with.
Agreed, he swept me multiple times in challenge mode. Granted, I was only using my starter because the other Pokemon I wanted weren’t available yet, but still
A lot of Cheren's difficulty comes down to a lack of options. You have nothing to deal with Normal-types except maybe a Lucario with no STAB if you're lucky and also very sweaty.
Bruno is kinda lucky that this is using gen 9 mechanics I takes his hitmonchan actually useful with the physical special split Meanwhile Lance suffers from the mechanic switch, since hyper beam don't work like gen 1 hyper beam.
yeah, and gen 2, 3, 4, 5 steel type users are harmed by the lack of ghost/dark resistance, although the fairy type super effective does help. All poison type trainers are also pretty buffed by this too
I mean Gen 1 Lance vs Gen 1 Bruno has to hope he can pull off the win with just gyarados + aerodactyl, because once the dragons come out they'll spam agility for the rest of time.
@@m05513 Fortunately, that shouldn't be much of an issue. The Onixes get one-shotted by Hydro Pump (even if a miss, they're not going to do much with their pathetic base ATK and 65% Rock Throw accuracy), Hitmonchan's easy even with 4x effective Thunderpunch, and Hitmonlee should be easy as well despite Mega Kick. On top of all that, Bruno has no Smart AI, so his damage potential goes down tremendously vs Gyarados, and Lance has a Hyper Potion. So that leaves Machamp. The remainder of Gyarados as well as Aerodactyl can probably do the job, but let's assume they both deal 0 damage: other than Fissure which has 0% accuracy against everything in Lance's team since Machamp's slower than everything, Machamp can only damage with Submission. Bruno has no healing items (and Lance has 1 for each, which he won't even need). Lance spamming Agility will actually work, since Machamp will just knock itself out.
Yeah I think that's the real reason the newer games feel easier than the old ones. It's not that the new ones are badly designed, it's that players are just given access to way more pokemon, especially in the early game.
@@kylekyleson3971 I wouldn't have the balls to say that new games are easier than older ones after Iono was born. She is the strongest gym leader compared to your resources in the entire franchise, I would even calling it unfair. Old games are easy, very very easy. I could beat any gen 1-4 game in a few hours because as older games, they are less complex and more easy to just patternize. You can't call a game hard if I can repeat the same inputs over and over (or just an overall simple strategy) and win easily. After seing how Iono is the strongest 3rd gym leader that will ever exist there's no way you can say newer games are easier. They are easy, but no easier.
Even with all the resources I unironically thought Turo was pretty difficult. One of the only battles in the entire franchise I've had to retry a few times. I wish they'd make more battles like this
@@tpfoxCastro Yeah I don't think the newer games actually ARE easier, I was mostly referring to a lack of difficulty being one of the common criticisms. Maybe that was more of an issue in Sword and Shield (I haven't played them yet, so I don't know), but Scarlet and Violet have some tough battles if you're not over-levelled.
Professor Sada and Turo were the only bosses who did not Terastallize any of their Pokémon or use a Starmobile and were still the most challenging opponents in Scarlet & Violet.
I am honestly impressed with how Cynthia stacked up. I thought she’d rank lower honestly but getting a top seven placement in all of Pokemon is impressive. I guess it's just further proof that in the anime she deserves her title as third/second strongest trainer in the world depending on if we're counting Ash.
Can't help but wonder if he took ALL of her iterations into account, including the summer villa visits in gen 5, her cameo in the battle tree in gen 7, etc.
Out of 16700 battles, Turo lost 894 of them. That is about 5.35% in losses overall. More than 1 percent, but still pretty decent. In order to have less than 1 percent, Turo needed to have less than 167 losses.
I suppose it makes sense that Raihan would be the #1 Gym trainer of all time; after all, he is introduced to us taking on Leon, who is the current champion and one of the best champions of all time. I think it's even stated somewhere that Raihan is considered strong enough that he could be a Champion in any other region, which stacks up considering how many champions he outranks.
@@jimkas3606not sure why they learns them, but if I had to guess, Aggron had these two moves as they specifically counter both Kyogre and Groudons weather setting abilities to hit them super effectively.
Makes sense that she was only defeated by Iono (and Kabu too I guess), she's literally the strongest gym leader (comparetively to where you are in the game, obviously). Honestly, I don't think I see enough people talking about how strong Iono is for a 3rd gym learder, 4 pokemon, 2 of them being fully evolved, coverage and immunities agaisn't ground (her only weakness). Iono is OP
Para, flinch, or not as reliable accurate debuffs make easy work of her. I never understood why people always complained about her until I did a nuzzlock and didn't have a para move. I think I ended up poisoning her twice coz she had a berry or something. It was awhile ago
@@faytleingod1851 Yeah I really believe you are thinking of HG/SS and not the original gen 2 games here mate. There was no easy acces to paralysis unless you went out of your way to catch a Magnemite in the underground or used something stupid like an Ekans. A Mareep would work too, but this was a time where most people didn't have access to a massive database on the internet.
@@suckieduckie yeah I was thinking of back in the day original gold then I also played a bunch of crystal. Mareep was my shock wave and Butterfree had stun powder. Just outside goldenrod was Drowzee with hypnosis and disable. Or sprout tower had Gastly which I always got with hypnosis, confuse Ray ,and lick always got lucky Paras for me. Hoot hoot has hypnosis but I always hated him so I never used em. I also remember as a kid I loved bird types and Faulkner giving out mudslap was nice. I didn't even know you could get a Magnemite at that point lol. I really oughta okay hg/ss I grew out of Pokemon after playing fire red, now I play the newer ones with my kid let's go Pikachu, sword, legends of Arceus.
Before finishing this video I just want to say that this was exactly what I wanted. Throughout the first video I was constantly thinking that this experiment would've been better if the levels were even so thank you for this.
@@smithplayspokemonyeah, but each trainer typically has a 5 or 6 pokemon team due to post game rematchs. Using these would have made it a lot more definitive and fair.
Same, respect. I was laughing through the ad because it just felt clever. Plus dude knows his fanbase. A pokemon emerald theme? I downloaded that shit right away.
@@smithplayspokemondo you know why people hated it? opera gx sells your data. this may sound normal, (Chrome sells your data) but the data they're selling is not normal. private information, personal info (including your credit card) and device info (ip address, device serial number and imei). ITS SUPPOSED TO BE PRIVATE BUT THEY KILLED THE PROMISE! come on, quit the sponsorship with opera gx and take on other sponsors.
So... UltraSun/UltraMoon Hau don't count? He is the final boss of the main adventure in the games, he basically plays the role of the champion in the games
I think she'll have a tough time competing with the absolute powerbloat that is the paradox pokemon, but yeah I hope she has a much better showing when she catches up with mechanics/movesets.
@@Pgans94honestly I think Cynthia might just be able to beat them. I know the paradox Pokémon are strong, but All of Cynthia’s Pokemon have optimised EV’s and actual Held Items, unlike AI Sada and AI Turo
That was honestly the hardest fight i've ever had in this series. Both AI Turo and Volo I beat first try (idk if it was some sort of AI solidarity or something but that fight was NOT that hard) but Cynthia I was warring with for four straight hours to no avail.
@@Pgans94turo and sada are the only true challenge. It’s sheer base stats and power creep in min maxxing as compared to powerful composition and cultured stats via nature, ev and iv. Uncapped levels bdsp cynthia cleanly wins as second highest average level + evs. Capped levels, she’s only really got the profs as competition, but evs and natures and items add so much to a pokemons potential.
Having more/better moves is also a bit of a sign of power creep. I think the older trainers suffer quite a bit from that. Like Champion Blue's teams - given the options there were in Gen1, the move sets aren't that bad.
True, Red and Blue for most Gym and Elite Four trainers were only level up movesets with the exception of one tm only for the last team pokemon. @@smithplayspokemon
Man, I love that my boy Raihan placed so high! His team is so versatile and well designed. It also helps that sandstorm is by far the best weather for the AI to use, since it can used way more passively than the other weathers with the chip damage and defense boost. I can’t wait to see N’s weather teams show up in future videos!
Since there's going to be a 3rd installment in this series I'm genuinely curious how the teacher's Ace Academy Tournament teams stack up and how much stronger Geeta will be with her updated roster
Geeta's blueberry team is actually decent since KG and Glimmora are in the correct positions, and gogoat has been replaced by an actually decent grass type, while Veluza has been fired for a Dragapult.
The time has come! Thanks Smith for the hard work!! I still think the OG "simulating as-is level" has value too, since it helps confirm most gym leaders are usually better later on (and highlights the weird outliers).
@@smithplayspokemon And now that the SV epilogue is out and this isn't leak territory (that even then I needed spelling out to me as I've not played gen 8 let alone the DLC) anymore, it's kinda funny how you ended up mentioning a certain someone's father right after her in the rankings... and I suspect you were picking up on it at the time with how similar their names are. Referring to Penny being close to Peony in that first video's rankings, here.
Fucking Whitney holding rank 129 and strongest third gym leader for 20 years with one pokémon validates everyone whose opinion and experience was that fucking Miltank was bullshit. Like holy moly, imagine how terrifying she'd be if she had 3 pokémon and all 3 were competent.
While normal Cynthia did rank lower than I thought, it does make sense with the increasing amounts of post-game content (which have a steady power creep). If I understood you correctly, she is still the second or third strongest for her place in the game (being non-postgame) which is incredible considering how old gen 4 is. I wonder where her 'hidden boss' Unova teams rank, maybe also throw that in the gen 4 versus remake comparison?
I'm both surprised and not surprised at the top few ranks. Also big props to who chose to include Sophisticated Fight as part of the background music early on
Nice to see that Poppy also managed to be the best E4 like in Pokedad's tournaments, although her placement was tied with Agatha, ironically the weakest E4 here Also suprised to see Tulip as 2nd strongest Gym Leader, and Penny get 25th with 6 Eeveelutions with Quick Attack and Baby-doll Eyes. Sada actually beat Turo here, but just you wait until the next video, where their relative lack of optimization will hurt them. I think. Wally at least. Hopefully.
Sada and Turo in Level Equalized are at a huge advantage over everyone except BDSP Cynthia and the Battle Leaders because they have a full team of 6 borderline pseudolegendaries. other then obviously flawed pokemon that require technical play to fully utilize like Flutter Mane, Turo and Sada simply are going to bludgeon everyone else to death with raw stats and decent movesets
I really would love it if in a future video, you stacked together the Frontier Brains and equivalents to them against each other. While I know it would get tricky since some, like Thorton, get random teams, it would still be great to see how they stack against each other, or even how they compare to the champions, since they usually are the ultimate goals of postgames.
For people who like this kind of video, a channel named "pimanrules" made something in a similar vein. I'm not affiliated with him or anything, but I appreciated the depth of their videos and just wanted to put it out there incase it brings enjoyment to any of y'all :)
After examining her team, I think part of the reason why Nemona did so well is due to the fact that she technically has 7 immunities built into her team through abilities and typings. These include Grass, Ghost, Ground, Poison, Electric, Normal, and Fighting.
I'm definitely looking forward to the version of this video using each trainer's best teams so the older gen trainers have almost as many tools to work with as their modern counterparts.
Yes. Do you think BDSP or the Unova games have Cynthia’s best team? I know it’s probably BDSP, but I was just wondering about the Unova team that she jumps the player with because I don’t think I’ve seen it mentioned in this context before.
6:20 That's actually super important when you consider that, if Hop in fact defeated us in the pre-cup, this means he would lose to Nessa in the tournament-proper, with Nessa, Allister or Bea likely winning the whole Cup. Which would kinda fit what anime presented to us (Bea was one of the main rivals to Ash in the Coronation Cup). 9:05 Mind you her deadbeat Clefairy is an RNG farm. If lucky it could bring any move with Metronome, potentially reversing a lot of those losses. A solid Transform (before gen 5), Minimize, OHKO move or Status condition, could directly impact the end result. 10:25 Sabrina opposite to the gen 1 mechanics, actually gets a lot of buffs along the way. Especially her Venomoth now has actually really strong STAB move in Leech Life and all three abilities are viable for it more or less. 19:00 Mind you Diantha is to this day the highest leveled champion, when it comes to the original fight. And you took her main power source that is Mega-Gardevoir. 24:30 I genuinely now want to see how the final teams work for every trainer. Especially the World Tournament teams for the older gym leaders, Let's Go teams for Elite Four (including Alolans). Alolan Red and Blue and the post DLC updated Geeta.
I would have been interested to see teams from the remakes/directors cut versions of the games alongside the base game teams to explore how much better or worse these teams with better/more modern moves do over the older versions. For example, including Wattson's R/S team, his Emerald team, and his ORAS team, and see which one does best and by how much.
Basically the older games are harder not because the teams are better but because we didnt have as many broken things as we do now. Cynthia team in SV would not be hard
But whatever Blind Cynthia hater. You must be a Leon Fanboy just like the directors of Anime and Gamefreak before all their hopes getting dashed by BDSP Cynthia.
That and the powercreep was so ridiculous that teams from the newer games that exploit these powercrept features pretty much had to win. DPPt's teams are no longer the strongest, but they're the best designed by far, the fact that they still score high desprite being at such a disadvantage compared to the newer games proves this
When you look at Hitmonchan's moveset, it becomes clear how Red and Blue Bruno managed to overperform, despite widely being considered so bad. Thunder and ice punches in gen 1 were special moves, which are notoriously awful on Hitmonchan. In the gen 9 system, they're physical and have great coverage, so this likely was enough to prop him up. It's still disappointing that you don't include remake versions of early gen teams in these, or the Kanto revisit teams in GSC, especially since you *do* include so many variations of more recent trainers. If a trainer can have multiple versions included from the same game, then multiple versions across different games should be counted too. I wouldn't count post-game cameo battles of trainers from outside the current game, though, since those aren't required to "beat the game."
I think there are two things worth pointing out about the gen 9 DLC fights, except for the Loyalty Plaza Carmine fight . The first is that all of them are designed to be much closer to competitive play than the more casual gym leaders or even champions. They've got maxed out stats, held items, and optimized abilities. The second is that all of them are double battles, so some of their moves are less useful or even completely pointless in singles.
This is an amazing rabbit hole to go down and I want to go even further. Now I want to see it again but with the Pokémon having competitive move sets for their respective generations. I know it would take a while to determine what set would work with the whole team but that would be cool too
Pokemon Legends Arceus is counted as a mainline game. I would love to see where Volo and Commander Kamado rank in one of these! I know they aren't Gym Leaders/E4, but they are at the very least notable trainers. Especially if we are considering people like Hop who isn't a Gym Leader, E4, or Champion.
Im hoping as you continue to do this you continue to tweak and fix the variables, this one is WAY better than the first experiment. And its only gonna get better. I see the vision .
Still think, most leaders have underleveled Pokémon because of when you encounter them they arent at a level they can evolve, if they are capped at 50 and these are GREAT trainers 99% of them will evolve those Pokémon. And update moves, hard for me to see Agatha riding with her Gengar in Gen 9 with no new ghosts moves. If shes an elite 4 member chances are thier are elite 4 championships sp they can match up at thier level, and i PROMISE she aint rollin up with just dream eater. If we are gonna gen 9 them gotta Smogon the moves. Because they will have HIGHLY competitive Pokémon. You dont have to add Pokémon, but i promise Whitwould evolve her clefable, and have fairy moves. She aint last 19 years just being a push over. Thats where i wanna see the next video.
It’s funny how gen 9 leaders actually get buffed by the lack of generational gimmicks, as they lose shared weaknesses due to their aces being of different type.
I would love to have seen this list include the rematch teams for all the trainers since that easily puts most of the gym leaders, for example, on an even more similar playing field. Looking forward to seeing that result in a future video as you hinted at.
Yeah agree with you, since I assume this was single battles than yeah I see him like top ten in my list but yeah double battles, Kieran destroys everyone with no contest
makes sense that Utro would place where he did, after all, if Power Creep occurs as time goes on, then he has centuries of power creep on his side. and Sada does say the ancient variants are stronger than their modern counterparts
all paradox pokemon are borderline pseudolegendaries or legendaries outright, meaning their team of 6 pokemon is inherently already superior to basically everyone else. having passable movesets helps a ton, but the difference is night and day. Cynthea still has the best team ever given to a single character, but that team requires very technical play to fully express their capabilities, especially the BDSP team.
I've done a lot of Pokemon challenge runs over the years and this video basically confirms a lot of the problem battles to me, was very satisfying to see. Turo is an absolute monster on challenge runs.
It would be nice to have a short table at the end of the video about the strongest and the weakest Trainer of every category (1st gym leader, 2nd gym leader, etc.) Just as a summary. It does not need to be voiced.
For the next video whee you do the "absolute best" teams, will you be updating their learnsets as well? I'd love to see how high trace will rank when he has a 4th move on his side.
I'm most excited for the 3rd iteration of this video. Later games in the series have all but confirmed that the team a leader uses in their storyline fight with you is NOT their actual/main/best team. The games have gone on record in recent gen showing us that all of these trainers have better set ups than what we see the first time around. They're going easy on us to test us at that specific level of skill. So it feels really unfair to use their first encounter teams. It especially does the earlier leaders super dirty. If we normalize for levels to be fair for the rankings, than we have to give them their best teams, too. Like, HGSS Red is MUCH scarier than OG Red fight, yanno??
To account for power creep and due to mechanic changes, I would've used FRLG teams for Kanto gym leaders (except Giovanni since he doesn't have Rhydon, so Yellow makes more sense for him), and HGSS teams for Johto Gym Leaders.
Wow, AI Sada and Turo weren't Joking about them having the Data of Many Past Champions making them extremely tough to beat! It made the the Two Strongest Trainers in the world!
That Raihan team has Rain dance, sunny day/drought and sandstorm. That is so anti-synergistic to his own, he is actually harming himself at that point. They could have at least given him a Castform, so the team made a little more sense.
I wonder how possible it would be to have a ranking of teams where you could have different sets of mechanics for each person. Like have gen 1 teams with the mechanics of the games they were from (just in gen 1 you have things like hyper beam, old blizzard freeze chance, psychic-type nonsense, and wrap mechanics), and the AI type used at the type. Maybe even including the special mechanics like mega evolution and tera-types, though that could maybe be best suited as an addendum. Presumably still place trainers at a level cap, but I would be curious if dragon types pre-fairy were given, say, a neutral interaction with fairy-types and how that might change things.
@@arpandas2243 You have a serious problem, it's scary how intense your feelings are on Pokémon that you straight up make up stuff like this about people. Btw, are you even old enough to ever have ridden meat? lol
@@arpandas2243 Lots of males experience that, also the other way around with having the meat ridden. Why are you using it as an insult, especially with no experience? No, you just have a problem with intense feelings on Pokémon, leading you to make up stuff about people (and repeating it a dozen times in this comment section).
Very interesting video. I am curious though as to why the Kanto leaders G/S teams and Hau were excluded. There are a few other strong trainers that could have been included such as the Alola league challengers (Ryuki, Plumeria, Sophocles, Guzma, Gladion, Lusamine), Sordward, Shielbert, Klara, Avery and Volo but I can understand why they weren't included or missed.
Are the Orre games excluded for being spinoffs, or are they excluded for their teams not being designed with singles in mind? I think it'd be slightly interesting to see how the teams including legendaries would fare (Perhaps the Shadow moves can be replaced with the moves that replace them upon purification?)
Ah yes. Let’s stop people from asking you to subscribe to one of their sources of income. Let’s just not have ads on TVs and such in general to ask people to buy things
If it's possible, for the next video you should disable the Physical/Special split for Generations 1-3, and disable the Sp.Atk/Sp.Def split for Generation 1. I feel like it would give us much more realistic data for how quite a few of those older trainers perform.
@zaneheaston8254 Easy question, with a simple answer. It's because in modern games the player has access to more of an abudence of resources that the player never had access to in the earlier gen games.
Pokemon team building has come a long way since Blue and Cynthia, but the fact that Cynthia's endured for this long is a sign of just how out of the park they really nailed her. Even going against absolute bosses like the my girl Nemona, Mustard, Hop (whom I still can't fathom being as high as he is), Leon, and others, it goes to show she was ahead of her time. Now if only we could get her to make an appearance in a newer game... where would she go from there?
Cynthia is impressive but I am even more impressed at Whitney. Being the third best third gym leader with a clefairy and a miltank and holding on to the first position of third gym leaders until gen 8 is impressive. She is the personification of Karen's philosophy.
Diantha’s reputation is a victim of X/Y’s poorly designed level curve. I always thought her team was awesome, but way too easy for how good of Pokémon she had
if you want to make another part, instead of having the leaders fight each other, have them fight teams that you can use at that point of the game because of course milktank isnt gonna beat like hop or smth, but your encounters at each point change how hard a battle will be.
In my opinion Iono is the strongest Gym leader/special trainer compared to where you are in the whole franchise. She has 4 pokemon, half of them fully evolved with one having coverage agaisnt ground and the other having no weaknesses (and with on of the other unevolved 2 being a flying type), which is insane for a third gym leader. No kidding she is a run killer on multiple nuzlocks! At least with Witney you have the machop and depending on your pokemon's gender and your luck there's a chance it ends up being much easier than it should and with Raihan you have 50% more fully evolved team members than him. But with Iono, probably the only case in the game's history where is likely that you have an equal amount of pokemon (if not less) than the gym leader!
The previous version of this video was awesome, because we could see the upsets of trainers winning with lower level Pokemon than their opponent. This video is even MORE awesome because we get to see a much more fair version of the massive Round Robin, much closer to how the trainers would be in-universe relative to each other. If we wanted to go one step FURTHER and do something more insanely cool, then we should do this same competition, but with these attributes: 1. All trainers have full teams of six 2.All Pokemon are fully evolved 3. All Pokemon are level 100 4. All existing moves with a similar, more powerful level-up move are replaced with it (e.g. replace Ember with Flamethrower) I know this would take a lot of work, but the pool of trainers could be reduced if needed. And you'd need to think of a fair system or formula for filling out the rest of each trainer's team.
This video right here, right now is the very thing I need right now, my doggo has been undergoing life-threating surgary and right now I am waiting on the results.
I was pleasantly surprised to see Turo place #1. I’m also glad Leon ranked as high as he did. Personally, just from playing Sword and Shield and watching Journeys, he’s become one of my favorite champions. I’m bummed to see N rank as low as he did, because he’s probably my favorite antagonist in the entire franchise
What I find interesting is that Volkner and Raihan have very lore accurate perfomances. Volkner is literally bored because of how strong he is and Raihan is said to be Champion level and probably could go to another region to claim thitle but stays in Galar to finally beat Leon.
I can’t wait for the video with the strongest teams for everyone. I’m very into the belief that gym leaders purposely hold back during the journey but that they all have similar power levels when going all out. Also, both Red and Cynthia’s best teams are so broken and I wanna see who ranks higher overall😄
![F.HERO Ft. JSPKK x ลำไย ไหทองคำ x M-PEE - ไม่สนิทบิดหมด (Thai Riders Anthem) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kPJZ0UihBfk/mqdefault.jpg)
Your current browser is bad. Get a better one here: operagx.gg/SmithPlaysPokemon
no thanks, I am a Firefox enjoyer
My current browser IS operagx tho
I just wanted to let you know that you said that elesa was the worst 4th gym leader at 7:51 at #135 but Erika was #142. 😂
Oops
Other browsers when making a sponsorship: Your browser is terrible and ours is 1000x better!
Google when advertising their browser: Uhhhh, use it if you like it continue using it? I don't know, do what you want, some nerd out there will tell you which browser is better
Morty: "I fear no man. But this thing..."
*points at Cheren*
"It scares me."
"Uh... Morty? That's a ma-"
*Confused Morty Noises*
It makes sense that AI Sada and AI Turo would be so strong. Not only because of having teams of only Pokémon with Base Stat Totals reaching 570 and 590, but they even say themselves “My battling abilities are peerless. They are built upon analysis of all the battles carried out by the various Champions of the Paldea region.”
But that means their data is based off of Geeta level players, not exactly the best thing to learn from. It's miraculous they're as good as they are.
@@Cr3zant
Assuming Geeta is the _actual_ champion and we don't have an "acting champion" thing going on here with her like we did with Lance in GSC and HGSS. We know that Nemona most likely beat Geeta, but we see her continuing to adventure rather than holding the champion's position.
@@VestedUTuberExcept that's not how being a champion in Paldea works. In Paldea, being a champion isn't a position it's a rank. Anyone who makes it through the league challenge is a champion, and unlike in other regions they don't take over the champion spot from the person they defeated.
Geeta and Nemona aren’t the only Champion-Ranked Trainers to have ever existed in Paldea. And even if it only looked at the two of them, Nemona alone is still strong enough to get valuable data.
@@brocautry5063
Actually, you basically confirmed my suspicions. If that's how it works then it _is_ effectively the same as with Lance in GSC/HGSS, because the champion you need to beat to become one yourself _isn't_ the most recent champion.
In either case, that means that the other champions aren't weaker than Gretta, they're _stronger._
I find it funny that Cheren ranked the absolute lowest since in a regular, casual B2W2 playthrough, I think Cheren is unironically the hardest gym leader in the entire franchise. If he spams Work Up, he can easily sweep your team of level 10s and his only real counter is if you overlevel a Riolu
EDIT: I'm glad people are actually agreeing with me instead of just assuming I have a skill issue. I've replayed B2W2 more times than I can count and Cheren is the only leader I still struggle with.
Agreed, he swept me multiple times in challenge mode. Granted, I was only using my starter because the other Pokemon I wanted weren’t available yet, but still
Yeah, if you don't have a fast way to take him out, you're screwed
Snivy solos him at his level. Set up two growths then sweep
A lot of Cheren's difficulty comes down to a lack of options. You have nothing to deal with Normal-types except maybe a Lucario with no STAB if you're lucky and also very sweaty.
Thank you for reminding me why I lost to him my first time: I remember being baffled that this is the game's first gym leader and he whupped me good!
Bruno is kinda lucky that this is using gen 9 mechanics
I takes his hitmonchan actually useful with the physical special split
Meanwhile Lance suffers from the mechanic switch, since hyper beam don't work like gen 1 hyper beam.
yeah, and gen 2, 3, 4, 5 steel type users are harmed by the lack of ghost/dark resistance, although the fairy type super effective does help. All poison type trainers are also pretty buffed by this too
Yeah, Bruno's Hitmonchan goes from garbage in his own game to solid here.
I mean Gen 1 Lance vs Gen 1 Bruno has to hope he can pull off the win with just gyarados + aerodactyl, because once the dragons come out they'll spam agility for the rest of time.
Onix also gets sturdy so it's possible that his onix don't get one shot
@@m05513 Fortunately, that shouldn't be much of an issue. The Onixes get one-shotted by Hydro Pump (even if a miss, they're not going to do much with their pathetic base ATK and 65% Rock Throw accuracy), Hitmonchan's easy even with 4x effective Thunderpunch, and Hitmonlee should be easy as well despite Mega Kick. On top of all that, Bruno has no Smart AI, so his damage potential goes down tremendously vs Gyarados, and Lance has a Hyper Potion.
So that leaves Machamp. The remainder of Gyarados as well as Aerodactyl can probably do the job, but let's assume they both deal 0 damage: other than Fissure which has 0% accuracy against everything in Lance's team since Machamp's slower than everything, Machamp can only damage with Submission. Bruno has no healing items (and Lance has 1 for each, which he won't even need). Lance spamming Agility will actually work, since Machamp will just knock itself out.
I think this really goes to show how the amount of resources the player is given has a lot of influence on how difficult the boss fight is
Yeah I think that's the real reason the newer games feel easier than the old ones. It's not that the new ones are badly designed, it's that players are just given access to way more pokemon, especially in the early game.
@@kylekyleson3971 I wouldn't have the balls to say that new games are easier than older ones after Iono was born. She is the strongest gym leader compared to your resources in the entire franchise, I would even calling it unfair. Old games are easy, very very easy. I could beat any gen 1-4 game in a few hours because as older games, they are less complex and more easy to just patternize. You can't call a game hard if I can repeat the same inputs over and over (or just an overall simple strategy) and win easily. After seing how Iono is the strongest 3rd gym leader that will ever exist there's no way you can say newer games are easier. They are easy, but no easier.
Even with all the resources I unironically thought Turo was pretty difficult. One of the only battles in the entire franchise I've had to retry a few times. I wish they'd make more battles like this
@@tpfoxCastro Yeah I don't think the newer games actually ARE easier, I was mostly referring to a lack of difficulty being one of the common criticisms. Maybe that was more of an issue in Sword and Shield (I haven't played them yet, so I don't know), but Scarlet and Violet have some tough battles if you're not over-levelled.
@@kylekyleson3971 Oh, I get it. Understandable, have a nice day
Professor Sada and Turo were the only bosses who did not Terastallize any of their Pokémon or use a Starmobile and were still the most challenging opponents in Scarlet & Violet.
Cheren beating Morty is like in my Soul Silver playthrough where he took out my entire team except a random Rattata I picked up and it won for me
Go rat.
This is me with a Furret that I accidentally brought to a Gengar fight.
Your Rattata was of the top percentile
@@maskedtonezHOW DARE YOU SAY SUCH A THING!!! ONLY YOUNGSTER JOEY HAS A TOP PERCENT RATTATA!!!
It was my underleveled Pidgey at 15 for me... Gust go brrrrr! 😅 Took half his team.
I am honestly impressed with how Cynthia stacked up. I thought she’d rank lower honestly but getting a top seven placement in all of Pokemon is impressive. I guess it's just further proof that in the anime she deserves her title as third/second strongest trainer in the world depending on if we're counting Ash.
Yeah it's really nice how the experience as a kid actually matches a mathematic analysis. I feel the same about Whitney performing very well.
She still was never hard
Can't help but wonder if he took ALL of her iterations into account, including the summer villa visits in gen 5, her cameo in the battle tree in gen 7, etc.
@@XxRaveRabbitxX he didn't because it's just Cynthia's Platinum team
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 Ok women hater leon Red simp
Can we talk about that W/L Ratio on Turo?! Like dude wtf?! That's not even 10% for losses in the range it's set to! It's 5.3% That's ABSOLUTELY Wild.
I think you got your decimals wrong
@omnibeta1876 possibly but even then it's still a massively low decimal all the same 15k wins to 800 losses is massive
Out of 16700 battles, Turo lost 894 of them. That is about 5.35% in losses overall. More than 1 percent, but still pretty decent. In order to have less than 1 percent, Turo needed to have less than 167 losses.
@omnibeta1876 also to be fair I thought it was 150,000 so it is 5.3% loss ratio still absurdly low.
@SonicDraco yeah ended up changing what I said to what it was I misread as 150k battles not 15k.
I suppose it makes sense that Raihan would be the #1 Gym trainer of all time; after all, he is introduced to us taking on Leon, who is the current champion and one of the best champions of all time. I think it's even stated somewhere that Raihan is considered strong enough that he could be a Champion in any other region, which stacks up considering how many champions he outranks.
Awesome analysis!
Gen 1-3 trainers suffer a lot from having teams made before the physical special split
Makes me wonder how they'd have placed with the remakes
steven's aggron has thunder and solar beam, these were special and are still special. they are just not good sometimes. but you do have a point.
@@notcraig255 Why does Aggron even learn those moves? Old gen movepolls where weird
@@jimkas3606not sure why they learns them, but if I had to guess, Aggron had these two moves as they specifically counter both Kyogre and Groudons weather setting abilities to hit them super effectively.
@@Janders797funny how it gets outsped and one hit koed by both groudon and kyogre
Team Whitney for life her Milktank is utterly ridiculous and really stomps the competition.
Udderly ridiculous 😏
Makes sense that she was only defeated by Iono (and Kabu too I guess), she's literally the strongest gym leader (comparetively to where you are in the game, obviously). Honestly, I don't think I see enough people talking about how strong Iono is for a 3rd gym learder, 4 pokemon, 2 of them being fully evolved, coverage and immunities agaisn't ground (her only weakness). Iono is OP
Para, flinch, or not as reliable accurate debuffs make easy work of her. I never understood why people always complained about her until I did a nuzzlock and didn't have a para move. I think I ended up poisoning her twice coz she had a berry or something. It was awhile ago
@@faytleingod1851 Yeah I really believe you are thinking of HG/SS and not the original gen 2 games here mate. There was no easy acces to paralysis unless you went out of your way to catch a Magnemite in the underground or used something stupid like an Ekans. A Mareep would work too, but this was a time where most people didn't have access to a massive database on the internet.
@@suckieduckie yeah I was thinking of back in the day original gold then I also played a bunch of crystal. Mareep was my shock wave and Butterfree had stun powder. Just outside goldenrod was Drowzee with hypnosis and disable. Or sprout tower had Gastly which I always got with hypnosis, confuse Ray ,and lick always got lucky Paras for me. Hoot hoot has hypnosis but I always hated him so I never used em. I also remember as a kid I loved bird types and Faulkner giving out mudslap was nice. I didn't even know you could get a Magnemite at that point lol.
I really oughta okay hg/ss I grew out of Pokemon after playing fire red, now I play the newer ones with my kid let's go Pikachu, sword, legends of Arceus.
Before finishing this video I just want to say that this was exactly what I wanted. Throughout the first video I was constantly thinking that this experiment would've been better if the levels were even so thank you for this.
So glad we could deliver this for you!!
doesnt matter cause some have 6 pokemon others have 2
@@patrickormerod3472yes, it’s almost as if each trainer is balanced unevenly😅
@@smithplayspokemonyeah, but each trainer typically has a 5 or 6 pokemon team due to post game rematchs. Using these would have made it a lot more definitive and fair.
@@jaxthomas3202 Believe that is going to be a future video
That was one of the most slick ad placements I've ever seen. It's literally integrated into the video so it HAS to be watched. Bravo.
Some people HATED it but I appreciate the respect🙏
Same, respect. I was laughing through the ad because it just felt clever. Plus dude knows his fanbase. A pokemon emerald theme? I downloaded that shit right away.
@@smithplayspokemondo you know why people hated it? opera gx sells your data.
this may sound normal, (Chrome sells your data) but the data they're selling is not normal.
private information, personal info (including your credit card) and device info (ip address, device serial number and imei).
ITS SUPPOSED TO BE PRIVATE BUT THEY KILLED THE PROMISE!
come on, quit the sponsorship with opera gx and take on other sponsors.
My man really disrespected barry twice in a row by not including him again as post game fight 😂
Whitney: Strongest 3rd Gym Leader for 19 years!!
Give this girl an award!!!
Players: No thank you! We’re traumatized enough!
So... UltraSun/UltraMoon Hau don't count?
He is the final boss of the main adventure in the games, he basically plays the role of the champion in the games
Ik right? I would've included it.
Can't wait to see where BDSP Cynthia will be on this. I think the IVs, EVs and held items will make up for the BST difference and put her on top.
I think she'll have a tough time competing with the absolute powerbloat that is the paradox pokemon, but yeah I hope she has a much better showing when she catches up with mechanics/movesets.
@@Pgans94honestly I think Cynthia might just be able to beat them. I know the paradox Pokémon are strong, but All of Cynthia’s Pokemon have optimised EV’s and actual Held Items, unlike AI Sada and AI Turo
That was honestly the hardest fight i've ever had in this series. Both AI Turo and Volo I beat first try (idk if it was some sort of AI solidarity or something but that fight was NOT that hard) but Cynthia I was warring with for four straight hours to no avail.
@@Pgans94turo and sada are the only true challenge. It’s sheer base stats and power creep in min maxxing as compared to powerful composition and cultured stats via nature, ev and iv.
Uncapped levels bdsp cynthia cleanly wins as second highest average level + evs. Capped levels, she’s only really got the profs as competition, but evs and natures and items add so much to a pokemons potential.
Sadly they didn't use BDSP
I never felt that Kalos Gym Leaders were really any weaker than the rest. It was just us getting more stacked than in any other Pokémon game.
The games are pretty fun when you don’t use the exp share
And it doesn't help that there's massive chunks of content in the early game that massively inflate your levels (basically anti gen 2)
ahh yes penny and her evolutions. genuinely dropped my drink
Couldn’t believe it either
Having more/better moves is also a bit of a sign of power creep. I think the older trainers suffer quite a bit from that. Like Champion Blue's teams - given the options there were in Gen1, the move sets aren't that bad.
It’s tough when you got an Arcanine that only knows ember😆
True, Red and Blue for most Gym and Elite Four trainers were only level up movesets with the exception of one tm only for the last team pokemon. @@smithplayspokemon
Man, I love that my boy Raihan placed so high! His team is so versatile and well designed. It also helps that sandstorm is by far the best weather for the AI to use, since it can used way more passively than the other weathers with the chip damage and defense boost.
I can’t wait to see N’s weather teams show up in future videos!
Turo really is Professor Gigachad, huh?
Also that sponsorship transition was the smoothest I've ever seen on TH-cam. Kudos.
He's Pokedad's PFP for a reason.
Since there's going to be a 3rd installment in this series I'm genuinely curious how the teacher's Ace Academy Tournament teams stack up and how much stronger Geeta will be with her updated roster
Also Nemona's League Club room teams.
Geeta's blueberry team is actually decent since KG and Glimmora are in the correct positions, and gogoat has been replaced by an actually decent grass type, while Veluza has been fired for a Dragapult.
I'm curious about all the HGSS rematch placements
@@F14thunderhawkGogoat was never the problem in Geeta’s team lol
The time has come! Thanks Smith for the hard work!!
I still think the OG "simulating as-is level" has value too, since it helps confirm most gym leaders are usually better later on (and highlights the weird outliers).
Well said! The other video is not without value at all.
@@smithplayspokemon And now that the SV epilogue is out and this isn't leak territory (that even then I needed spelling out to me as I've not played gen 8 let alone the DLC) anymore, it's kinda funny how you ended up mentioning a certain someone's father right after her in the rankings... and I suspect you were picking up on it at the time with how similar their names are.
Referring to Penny being close to Peony in that first video's rankings, here.
Fucking Whitney holding rank 129 and strongest third gym leader for 20 years with one pokémon validates everyone whose opinion and experience was that fucking Miltank was bullshit.
Like holy moly, imagine how terrifying she'd be if she had 3 pokémon and all 3 were competent.
You know, it's INSANE seeing the Professors do SO well, but it's a very welcome surprise. Also shoutouts to Nemona and Penny.
It's not surprising when you consider the stat spreads of pokemon they use
While normal Cynthia did rank lower than I thought, it does make sense with the increasing amounts of post-game content (which have a steady power creep). If I understood you correctly, she is still the second or third strongest for her place in the game (being non-postgame) which is incredible considering how old gen 4 is.
I wonder where her 'hidden boss' Unova teams rank, maybe also throw that in the gen 4 versus remake comparison?
I'm both surprised and not surprised at the top few ranks.
Also big props to who chose to include Sophisticated Fight as part of the background music early on
Sophisticated Fight was the reason i never skipped or ran from a fight in Trails in the Sky
Its such a fukin vibe
Personally i prefer sky 3rd's one but theyre all peak
Nice to see that Poppy also managed to be the best E4 like in Pokedad's tournaments, although her placement was tied with Agatha, ironically the weakest E4 here
Also suprised to see Tulip as 2nd strongest Gym Leader, and Penny get 25th with 6 Eeveelutions with Quick Attack and Baby-doll Eyes.
Sada actually beat Turo here, but just you wait until the next video, where their relative lack of optimization will hurt them. I think. Wally at least. Hopefully.
Sada and Turo in Level Equalized are at a huge advantage over everyone except BDSP Cynthia and the Battle Leaders because they have a full team of 6 borderline pseudolegendaries. other then obviously flawed pokemon that require technical play to fully utilize like Flutter Mane, Turo and Sada simply are going to bludgeon everyone else to death with raw stats and decent movesets
I really would love it if in a future video, you stacked together the Frontier Brains and equivalents to them against each other. While I know it would get tricky since some, like Thorton, get random teams, it would still be great to see how they stack against each other, or even how they compare to the champions, since they usually are the ultimate goals of postgames.
For people who like this kind of video, a channel named "pimanrules" made something in a similar vein. I'm not affiliated with him or anything, but I appreciated the depth of their videos and just wanted to put it out there incase it brings enjoyment to any of y'all :)
Im still curious how the Cut post Gen 1 Fight with Professor Oak would have ranked in both the simulations you have done so far.
Without gen 1 mechanics, and without updated movesets, probably not high.
After examining her team, I think part of the reason why Nemona did so well is due to the fact that she technically has 7 immunities built into her team through abilities and typings. These include Grass, Ghost, Ground, Poison, Electric, Normal, and Fighting.
I'm definitely looking forward to the version of this video using each trainer's best teams so the older gen trainers have almost as many tools to work with as their modern counterparts.
Yes. Do you think BDSP or the Unova games have Cynthia’s best team? I know it’s probably BDSP, but I was just wondering about the Unova team that she jumps the player with because I don’t think I’ve seen it mentioned in this context before.
6:20 That's actually super important when you consider that, if Hop in fact defeated us in the pre-cup, this means he would lose to Nessa in the tournament-proper, with Nessa, Allister or Bea likely winning the whole Cup. Which would kinda fit what anime presented to us (Bea was one of the main rivals to Ash in the Coronation Cup).
9:05 Mind you her deadbeat Clefairy is an RNG farm. If lucky it could bring any move with Metronome, potentially reversing a lot of those losses. A solid Transform (before gen 5), Minimize, OHKO move or Status condition, could directly impact the end result.
10:25 Sabrina opposite to the gen 1 mechanics, actually gets a lot of buffs along the way. Especially her Venomoth now has actually really strong STAB move in Leech Life and all three abilities are viable for it more or less.
19:00 Mind you Diantha is to this day the highest leveled champion, when it comes to the original fight. And you took her main power source that is Mega-Gardevoir.
24:30 I genuinely now want to see how the final teams work for every trainer. Especially the World Tournament teams for the older gym leaders, Let's Go teams for Elite Four (including Alolans). Alolan Red and Blue and the post DLC updated Geeta.
I would have been interested to see teams from the remakes/directors cut versions of the games alongside the base game teams to explore how much better or worse these teams with better/more modern moves do over the older versions. For example, including Wattson's R/S team, his Emerald team, and his ORAS team, and see which one does best and by how much.
The biggest disrepancy would absolutely be RS Tate and Liza vs Emerald Tate and Liza lol.
Having only two Pokemon was ass for a seventh gym.
Basically the older games are harder not because the teams are better but because we didnt have as many broken things as we do now. Cynthia team in SV would not be hard
The same thing can be said for the fake boasting Clown with the most Overrated starter
But whatever Blind Cynthia hater. You must be a Leon Fanboy just like the directors of Anime and Gamefreak before all their hopes getting dashed by BDSP Cynthia.
That and the powercreep was so ridiculous that teams from the newer games that exploit these powercrept features pretty much had to win.
DPPt's teams are no longer the strongest, but they're the best designed by far, the fact that they still score high desprite being at such a disadvantage compared to the newer games proves this
@@tabbender1232 That's why you should look up to BDSP Cynthia which was purposefully ignored here to pump up Leon
@arpandas2243 yo that's actually funny asf😂😂.... cuz like.. it's a joke right?
When you look at Hitmonchan's moveset, it becomes clear how Red and Blue Bruno managed to overperform, despite widely being considered so bad. Thunder and ice punches in gen 1 were special moves, which are notoriously awful on Hitmonchan. In the gen 9 system, they're physical and have great coverage, so this likely was enough to prop him up.
It's still disappointing that you don't include remake versions of early gen teams in these, or the Kanto revisit teams in GSC, especially since you *do* include so many variations of more recent trainers. If a trainer can have multiple versions included from the same game, then multiple versions across different games should be counted too. I wouldn't count post-game cameo battles of trainers from outside the current game, though, since those aren't required to "beat the game."
I think there are two things worth pointing out about the gen 9 DLC fights, except for the Loyalty Plaza Carmine fight . The first is that all of them are designed to be much closer to competitive play than the more casual gym leaders or even champions. They've got maxed out stats, held items, and optimized abilities. The second is that all of them are double battles, so some of their moves are less useful or even completely pointless in singles.
The Trails in the Sky battle theme in the background ❤ muah! Chef’s kiss 👌🏽
This is an amazing rabbit hole to go down and I want to go even further. Now I want to see it again but with the Pokémon having competitive move sets for their respective generations. I know it would take a while to determine what set would work with the whole team but that would be cool too
Dude calls Elesa the worst 4th gym leader when in the same breath he says Ramos, the 4th gym leader of Kalos, is ranked lower than her
Pokemon Legends Arceus is counted as a mainline game.
I would love to see where Volo and Commander Kamado rank in one of these! I know they aren't Gym Leaders/E4, but they are at the very least notable trainers. Especially if we are considering people like Hop who isn't a Gym Leader, E4, or Champion.
Im hoping as you continue to do this you continue to tweak and fix the variables, this one is WAY better than the first experiment. And its only gonna get better. I see the vision
.
Still think, most leaders have underleveled Pokémon because of when you encounter them they arent at a level they can evolve, if they are capped at 50 and these are GREAT trainers 99% of them will evolve those Pokémon. And update moves, hard for me to see Agatha riding with her Gengar in Gen 9 with no new ghosts moves.
If shes an elite 4 member chances are thier are elite 4 championships sp they can match up at thier level, and i PROMISE she aint rollin up with just dream eater.
If we are gonna gen 9 them gotta Smogon the moves. Because they will have HIGHLY competitive Pokémon. You dont have to add Pokémon, but i promise Whitwould evolve her clefable, and have fairy moves. She aint last 19 years just being a push over.
Thats where i wanna see the next video.
It’s funny how gen 9 leaders actually get buffed by the lack of generational gimmicks, as they lose shared weaknesses due to their aces being of different type.
I can't wait to see how strong the BDSP Cynthia team is cause I know that entire E4 was on demon timing.
I would love to have seen this list include the rematch teams for all the trainers since that easily puts most of the gym leaders, for example, on an even more similar playing field. Looking forward to seeing that result in a future video as you hinted at.
Could see Kieran getting the top spot in double battles
Yeah agree with you, since I assume this was single battles than yeah I see him like top ten in my list but yeah double battles, Kieran destroys everyone with no contest
makes sense that Utro would place where he did, after all, if Power Creep occurs as time goes on, then he has centuries of power creep on his side.
and Sada does say the ancient variants are stronger than their modern counterparts
all paradox pokemon are borderline pseudolegendaries or legendaries outright, meaning their team of 6 pokemon is inherently already superior to basically everyone else.
having passable movesets helps a ton, but the difference is night and day. Cynthea still has the best team ever given to a single character, but that team requires very technical play to fully express their capabilities, especially the BDSP team.
@@F14thunderhawkdude.. its not that hard to use her team
I've done a lot of Pokemon challenge runs over the years and this video basically confirms a lot of the problem battles to me, was very satisfying to see. Turo is an absolute monster on challenge runs.
Yooo this was sick. Gotta give it up to my girl Cynthia for being the strongest for TWELVE YEARS
I’m sure she’s been the strongest again since BDSP, too. I think that including her BDSP team will make her beat everyone.
It would be interesting to be able to see how her teams from the other games would fare, too. Like the team she had in the Unova games.
Would love to see this type of video with the super bosses like Wally included
Sinnoh trainers are built different
It would be nice to have a short table at the end of the video about the strongest and the weakest Trainer of every category (1st gym leader, 2nd gym leader, etc.) Just as a summary. It does not need to be voiced.
For the next video whee you do the "absolute best" teams, will you be updating their learnsets as well? I'd love to see how high trace will rank when he has a 4th move on his side.
I’m surprised the Frontier Brains and the leaders of other battle facilities weren’t included. Hope to see them in the next one!
Yeah, but what about Hau from Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon? That champion fight?
I'm most excited for the 3rd iteration of this video. Later games in the series have all but confirmed that the team a leader uses in their storyline fight with you is NOT their actual/main/best team. The games have gone on record in recent gen showing us that all of these trainers have better set ups than what we see the first time around. They're going easy on us to test us at that specific level of skill. So it feels really unfair to use their first encounter teams. It especially does the earlier leaders super dirty. If we normalize for levels to be fair for the rankings, than we have to give them their best teams, too. Like, HGSS Red is MUCH scarier than OG Red fight, yanno??
To account for power creep and due to mechanic changes, I would've used FRLG teams for Kanto gym leaders (except Giovanni since he doesn't have Rhydon, so Yellow makes more sense for him), and HGSS teams for Johto Gym Leaders.
I can't wait to see how the remake games teams match up with these matchups goes.
SmithPlays and Jrose11 are my favorite pokemon youtubers! Love your content!!
Wow, AI Sada and Turo weren't Joking about them having the Data of Many Past Champions making them extremely tough to beat! It made the the Two Strongest Trainers in the world!
You should do this with their full rematch teams (if available, RIP Kalos in that one).
That Raihan team has Rain dance, sunny day/drought and sandstorm. That is so anti-synergistic to his own, he is actually harming himself at that point. They could have at least given him a Castform, so the team made a little more sense.
So, removing the AI, Mustard is still the strongest? Respect for the old man
Yeah! I guess he's the strongest human
I figured Red would drop because his team was so overleveled but gahlee I thought maybe early 20's, not in the late 30's
I wonder how possible it would be to have a ranking of teams where you could have different sets of mechanics for each person. Like have gen 1 teams with the mechanics of the games they were from (just in gen 1 you have things like hyper beam, old blizzard freeze chance, psychic-type nonsense, and wrap mechanics), and the AI type used at the type. Maybe even including the special mechanics like mega evolution and tera-types, though that could maybe be best suited as an addendum. Presumably still place trainers at a level cap, but I would be curious if dragon types pre-fairy were given, say, a neutral interaction with fairy-types and how that might change things.
I really like how Poppy ended up being the strongest Elite 4 member. Tinkaton FTW!
The madlad really did it! Rooting for Cynthia personally
They purposefully hid bdsp cynthia to meat ride leon even more
and bdsp is the best game for making cynthia really OP and a tight slap to the meat riding Leon Directors of Anime and Gamefreak
@@arpandas2243 You have a serious problem, it's scary how intense your feelings are on Pokémon that you straight up make up stuff like this about people. Btw, are you even old enough to ever have ridden meat? lol
@@mokarokas-1727 no I havent but the directors in anime and gamefreak sure love to. And I am a Male why should I need to experience that
@@arpandas2243 Lots of males experience that, also the other way around with having the meat ridden. Why are you using it as an insult, especially with no experience?
No, you just have a problem with intense feelings on Pokémon, leading you to make up stuff about people (and repeating it a dozen times in this comment section).
That may be the smoothest sponsor transition I've ever heard. Well done.
Very interesting video. I am curious though as to why the Kanto leaders G/S teams and Hau were excluded.
There are a few other strong trainers that could have been included such as the Alola league challengers (Ryuki, Plumeria, Sophocles, Guzma, Gladion, Lusamine), Sordward, Shielbert, Klara, Avery and Volo but I can understand why they weren't included or missed.
Might be a cool idea to include Pokémon colosseum and XD Gale of Darkness top trainers id love to see where they go in lists like this
Are the Orre games excluded for being spinoffs, or are they excluded for their teams not being designed with singles in mind? I think it'd be slightly interesting to see how the teams including legendaries would fare (Perhaps the Shadow moves can be replaced with the moves that replace them upon purification?)
I like how the sponsor was integrated in the video
Please chill with the subscription begging.
Ah yes. Let’s stop people from asking you to subscribe to one of their sources of income. Let’s just not have ads on TVs and such in general to ask people to buy things
If it's possible, for the next video you should disable the Physical/Special split for Generations 1-3, and disable the Sp.Atk/Sp.Def split for Generation 1. I feel like it would give us much more realistic data for how quite a few of those older trainers perform.
And people say modern Pokémon games are too easy
Cuz they are.
@@adhamwashere5320 Then explain the #2 & #1 trainers on this ranking
@zaneheaston8254 I didn't play sv, but I did play swsh and Leon was easy
@zaneheaston8254 Easy question, with a simple answer. It's because in modern games the player has access to more of an abudence of resources that the player never had access to in the earlier gen games.
@@devilrider39000000 The oppenent also has access to those resources, looks at the insane coverage of the AI Professors
Pokemon team building has come a long way since Blue and Cynthia, but the fact that Cynthia's endured for this long is a sign of just how out of the park they really nailed her. Even going against absolute bosses like the my girl Nemona, Mustard, Hop (whom I still can't fathom being as high as he is), Leon, and others, it goes to show she was ahead of her time.
Now if only we could get her to make an appearance in a newer game... where would she go from there?
well she actually has made appearance in BDSP
Cynthia is impressive but I am even more impressed at Whitney. Being the third best third gym leader with a clefairy and a miltank and holding on to the first position of third gym leaders until gen 8 is impressive. She is the personification of Karen's philosophy.
Cynthia being the raining champion for 12 years is just insane to me but makes sense.
Diantha’s reputation is a victim of X/Y’s poorly designed level curve. I always thought her team was awesome, but way too easy for how good of Pokémon she had
if you want to make another part, instead of having the leaders fight each other, have them fight teams that you can use at that point of the game
because of course milktank isnt gonna beat like hop or smth, but your encounters at each point change how hard a battle will be.
Should do this similar, but fully evolved with levels at 60.
22:35 why does this guy‘s T-Shirt look like he‘s subjugated all of Europe using Norway on an extreme alt-history path in Hearts of Iron or Victoria?
In my opinion Iono is the strongest Gym leader/special trainer compared to where you are in the whole franchise. She has 4 pokemon, half of them fully evolved with one having coverage agaisnt ground and the other having no weaknesses (and with on of the other unevolved 2 being a flying type), which is insane for a third gym leader. No kidding she is a run killer on multiple nuzlocks! At least with Witney you have the machop and depending on your pokemon's gender and your luck there's a chance it ends up being much easier than it should and with Raihan you have 50% more fully evolved team members than him. But with Iono, probably the only case in the game's history where is likely that you have an equal amount of pokemon (if not less) than the gym leader!
The previous version of this video was awesome, because we could see the upsets of trainers winning with lower level Pokemon than their opponent.
This video is even MORE awesome because we get to see a much more fair version of the massive Round Robin, much closer to how the trainers would be in-universe relative to each other.
If we wanted to go one step FURTHER and do something more insanely cool, then we should do this same competition, but with these attributes:
1. All trainers have full teams of six
2.All Pokemon are fully evolved
3. All Pokemon are level 100
4. All existing moves with a similar, more powerful level-up move are replaced with it (e.g. replace Ember with Flamethrower)
I know this would take a lot of work, but the pool of trainers could be reduced if needed. And you'd need to think of a fair system or formula for filling out the rest of each trainer's team.
This video right here, right now is the very thing I need right now, my doggo has been undergoing life-threating surgary and right now I am waiting on the results.
as a scarlet fangirl seeing sada at #2 being beat out by turo makes me a bit sad lol
I’m so happy Raihan lived up to his in game reputation (being strong enough to be a champion but refuses to give up on beating Leon)
I was pleasantly surprised to see Turo place #1. I’m also glad Leon ranked as high as he did. Personally, just from playing Sword and Shield and watching Journeys, he’s become one of my favorite champions. I’m bummed to see N rank as low as he did, because he’s probably my favorite antagonist in the entire franchise
Diantha has a ridiculously well built team for how low of a reputation she has
So it's official, Whitney's Miltank is an absolute beast.
It always was official ;)
I love how the top spots are canon accurate. Also things like Raihan being the strongest gym leader, also canon accurate.
What I find interesting is that Volkner and Raihan have very lore accurate perfomances. Volkner is literally bored because of how strong he is and Raihan is said to be Champion level and probably could go to another region to claim thitle but stays in Galar to finally beat Leon.
I can’t wait for the video with the strongest teams for everyone. I’m very into the belief that gym leaders purposely hold back during the journey but that they all have similar power levels when going all out.
Also, both Red and Cynthia’s best teams are so broken and I wanna see who ranks higher overall😄
To whomever edited, I love your use of Sophisticated Fight. One of my favorite battle themes of all time.
i really wanna see remakes included in videos like this because trainers like zinnia would perform quite well imo
That Ad was smooth af, well done!
All the elite 4 members being beat by a child is hilarious