ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ย. 2024
- Today's Pokemon Deep Dive will zoom in on the Pokemon Emerald Battle Frontier as we look at a particular facility I'm declaring the most unfair place in Pokemon. There are many tough as nails challenges present in the older Pokemon games, but this one in particular, the Battle Palace, may just take the cake in some ways.
The Battle Palace is 1 of the 7 Battle Frontier facilities in Emerald, each employing their own slight spin to the battle formula to test trainers strength in certain ways and are designed to be the ultimate end game challenge for players. The gimmick employed at the palace is a particularly brutal one though. Pokemon are made to fight for themselves and choose their own moves- significantly changing the strategy and RNG of battles.
But Pokemon Emerald isn't like the Pokemon of our dreams, or like that of the world we would see in the anime or manga. The AI and design of the game makes the Battle Palace a significantly difficult and frustrating challenge for casual and hardcore players alike- often coming down to sustaining long streaks of good luck. But today I'd like to dive a bit deeper into that "difficulty", and explore the ways that the game communicates with the player to give the Palace more and more layers of difficulty, and why I would describe it specifically as the most unfair place in Pokemon.
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Wow! What a great video! Perhaps even better than usual, all because @funnelkaek (www.youtube.com/@funnelkaek ) is now helping me edit! she makes great videos too!!! And also thanks yall FOR THE UNBELIEVABLE 50K!!! I enjoy getting to do these so much and the community makes me so happy 😊
This place sounds more unfair than the Volo battle from Legends Arceus
i thought i smelled the unmistakable scent of funnelkaek funnies! good work team
an honor!!
A visionary, an icon, truly incredible stuff
Serebii is a much better resource than bulbapedia tbh
The Battle Frontier was the first time in Pokemon where I, as a little kid, realized there was more to being strong than higher levels and bigger moves. It was definitely unfair, but it was the first reason I looked up what Pokemon natures actually do!
My play-through team: gets sent packing by intimidate mightyena and a fake out shiftry
Me: i needa get me summadat
See the problem here... You had to look up presumably on the Internet to find our what something in this game did
@@lukemorgan6166 okay but you had to actually think and you could still figure out the game through trial and error. Nowadays kids are too smooth brained. I had fun playing the Battle Frontier as a kid and actually grew because of it. But go off on your want of instant gratification ya tart
@lukemorgan6166 My buddy had the Pokemon Emerald guide, that was our Bible. Even with the internet, I don't really see an issue with having to find things, it felt like a knowledge treasure hunt.
@@lukemorgan6166 again such a zoomer thing. Lots of games don’t fully explain their mechanics. Fire emblem 3H never explains how weapon weight works or the formulas for it, final fantasy never explained how their growths work, etc.
even then without the internet there were a lot of guide books that explained how it work, and it was also in the game manual you got for free with the game. Back in the day you had to read these physical manuals because internet was dialup. Most people did above the age of 8. I did and I was 7, but I just didn’t care that much lol. But I knew what they did. Gen 4 onwards it’s literally shown in pokemon summary as one stat is blue and one is red depending on nature. It’s a different era so I doubt you understand and I can see your misguided view. Most people at the time knew what natures and ivs did. We knew about EVs because they already existed. And other guidebooks published by Nintendo explained it (which I agree is bs and should be in game or in the game manual so I agree with you on the point for evs ivs)
Ironic how the Battle Pike, the one bragging about testing your luck, is LESS RNG dependent than that goddamn Palace
AND less luck-based than the Factory!
Me in the Battle Pike, carrying my poisoned, paralyzed, and/or burning Pokemon out after stepping through the first doorway. I’ve never hated Dusclops and Kirlia so much until the Battle Pike.
I beat the Battle Pike Silver Symbol with my normal sorry team. That is how easy it is
@@Shlankyman545 the idea that a Kirlia would cripple a random Pokemons spine because they felt like it is infuriating lol
@DaShoopdahoop I think you meant "is hilarious." Common mistake, I know. 😂
Seven battle facilities made exclusively to screw you up, make you cry, spit on you while you’re crying, then leaving, and coming back just to repeat the process. Perfection
and I loved every second of it! those little silver and gold circles are calling me
Ok
Thats probably why so many people love (most) of them. I wouldnt say they're what got me into competetive but they definitely helped in me understanding it.
I will never forget that time I got perish trapped in the Battle Factory when I was 11.
The Battle Facilities made you cry. Then they said goodbye after Dppt. Then they lied when they said they'd return in ORAS. That hurt.
Sometimes, Pokemon is a series held up by dataminers and wiki editors
Shiftry:"Your Pokemon is getting into position."
Shiftry:Uses Explosion 💀
The whole Battle Frontier is quite unfair. The game doesn't let you see most of the competitive characteristics while the NPCs somehow do it or are designed with those features in mind. And now, in the present games, where we CAN see them and find ways to counter; they haven't put anymore BFrontiers 😐.
Unfortunately, That's a very Japanese game design type of issue where systems will get introduced into a game then never ever are spoken of again. If you've played the Yakuza series, very similar issues from game to game. It doesn't help that Pokémon is such an institution now, so there's no desire to make it less child play friendly
I guess they can't think of new RNG mechanics after two generations of Battle Frontiers.
@@matthewhall1467 Nah that's just not true. I'm sure that's true for Yakuza but most JP games (and games in general) don't have this issue especially a turn based game where the strategy is behind actually having a feel for the numbers
Whats more, the streak based system with no second changes will guarantee that you're getting screwed over by RNG, whether it's by the opponent being really lucky or you being very unlucky. A full RNG set with only OHKO moves and quick claw/focus band wouldn't work in your favor, but is almost guaranteed to ruin your day at some point by a lucky opponent. Also most enemy move sets include Double Team for some stupid reason, someone at Gamefreak thought it's apparently a staple move for strong Pokémon.
@@solidzack Granted, double team is actually a pretty good move on certain mons (reduces both physical and special damage taken, without crits ignoring the damage reduction). It's mostly just banned from pvp as it is deemed uncompetitive as it is very RNG heavy.
I just realized a much better way they could have implemented this: contest types. Have each mon prefer to use moves matching the type of its higher contest stats! That way you can control the ratio yourself with pokeblocks.
I think this could've worked if they didn't let Pokémon skip turns and natures favored moves that use the stats they alter. So a Modest nature would favor Special attacking moves, would disdain Physical attacking moves, and would be neutral towards the rest. Bold or Calm natures would favor defensive moves and disdain Physical attacking moves. And so on.
Also, since Pokémon wouldn't be allowed to skip turns, the game would just pick a random move should the move category not exist in the moveset. This would make the Palace manageable imo.
Additionally Pokémon shouldn't use moves that are guaranteed to not work because of immunity, abilities, already inflicted status conditions or because its stats are already min/maxed out.
And since you can already influence the battles by switching it wouldn't have hurt if you could "suggest" a battle style instead of selecting an attack, which would raise the odds for the Pokémon choosing an attack of that category
As someone who never done gen 3 post game, that's literally how i thought the palace worked
Remember this and pokeblocks, then remember that going to spear pillar with an event item was “too confusing” to be released in the next generation
Or even the puzzles for the Regis. If you don't have the game manual you'd be lost without looking it up
@@stonalisa3729 I actually used an encyclopedia as a kid to translate the braille.
@@wordsdistorted GF really underestimates children
@@stonalisa3729 I believe you do get the Braille alphabet in-game, so it is doable without any external sources. But you DO need to figure out to try and use Dive in front of the first tablet, which could be difficult.
Never forget the Azure Flute
Pokemon wants to distance themselves from the idea of making players think of their Pokemon as just numbers, but then they put in challenges that all but force players to use external sources and turn the game into a spreadsheet anyways
I think the idea was to make the complexity sufficient that you couldn't do it by numbers and had to "feel it out", but they underestimated the lengths people would go to in order to optimise.
@@Interesting_Failure I appreciate the experimentation at the very least!
@@dannykazariI feel like this is already a pretty big issue in the evs/ivs/natures system even if they have been trying to improve it slowly over time
@@MachuThePichu Agreed! The more systems they introduce to try and differentiate Pokémon, the more people are going to try and optimize it
I think the Indigo Disc had a lot of content that was in the right direction, but unlike the Battle Frontier, there’s no replayability and you’re just supposed to play ranked until Gen 10.
I remember battling in the Battle Palace in Emerald once and never tried it again. Thanks Blaziken for spamming Blaze Kick against the Marril when you had Sky Uppercut right there.
To give people an idea here...
All you can do in the battle palace is sit back and press A... nothing else... you don't can't use items... you just have to sit there maybe do a switch and that's it...
I used a Suicune here and the guy made it seem he was mocking me... because against pokemon that he would be weak against, he would create a subsitute, stack calm mind to the max, and then just sit there tanking solabeams... we never lost because of him but I tell you this facility drove me mad
You'd think they'd at least add an option to autoprogress without hitting A so you can zone out and go do something else.
It is so bizarre how with the release of scarlet and violet + their DLC it has never been easier to train up competitive Pokémon (barring paywall legendaries that break the game in two), which would’ve made the battle frontier so much more accessible and fun and yet we will probably never see it again
I would like to add that the Battle Frontier is just the culmination of every bad decision GF made with the underlying systems colliding at high speed. "Obscure shit that only works in the background that you have no way to check" is basically a running gag in Gen III. IVs, EVs, Natures, its effects, abilities, EVERYTHING was just an obscure mechanic. We got used to it, but it's overwhelming how many things were absolutely determinant in winning at any level of competition yet were hid from your eyes. The last pkmn game I played was UltraSun and at least it let you track your EVs, but still requires beating the League to check IVs... it's honestly insane, and always has been. And when all that obscure stuff determines how your pokemon plays itself, it truly shine as The Worst Decision Ever.
Meanwhile, Gen I-II only had uncapped EVs that didn't need tracking and low IVs that didn't really matter. If you wanted your favorite mon to be competitively viable you only needed patience, skill and a good moveset, not hatch a few thousand eggs.
What if Facilities never existed in the Pokemon franchise? From Crystal to SwSh. How'd the games and anime have looked like? And what would Ash do between Hoenn & Sinnoh if there wasn't the Frontier?
@@tlst94 Ash could have gone to Orre instead of Kanto Battle Frontier. Would have been awesome to see Shadow Pokemon in the mid 2000s Anime Style. Hunter J could have been introduced early working for Cipher if that happened.
Gen 1 and 2 was really funy with thair IVs, as a child knowing nothing i at some point restarted and tested starters and other things, at some point i noticed my charmander would some times start with 1hp more thqn normal, this lead me to a conspirasy that some times the starter was buffed and special, i didn't know at the time what it meant but something like an IV system was incomprahensible for me because random hiden stats like that didn't exist in games i played at the time which mostly was turn based rpgs and strategy
spending an entire summer to get all 7 gold badges in the battle frontier was the most satisfying challenge ive completed.
Zero proof
@@lukemorgan6166who cares lmao
@lukemorgan6166 are you just going to every comment to act like a 5 year old lmao
@@lukemorgan6166 Why are you the way that you are?
@@lukemorgan6166Lol who cares
I like the _idea_ of this place, but what were they thinking with this implementation? Unintuitive move preferences for natures, an idiotic 50% chance to do nothing if the RNG picks a category you don’t have, *and* the Battle Frontier Pokémon aren’t even made any easier. The lack of a Battle Frontier in ORAS actually doing this right really isn’t doing this place any favors.
I mean I imagine the 50% odds is meant to be a punish. Like theoretically the whole gimmick dies if you just stack one type of move (probably attack) so they had to disincentive you to do that somehow.
It's really the Palace that's most frustrating. I loved Battle Arena. Considering the prevalence of hazards these days, it's probably gonna be a breath of fresh air for players if it came back as a PvP format.
@@viewer6152 I actually didn’t grow up with a smartphone? I didn’t have any of the games with the Battle Frontiers as a kid, and didn’t get a smartphone until I was a teen.
I feel like this facility is right between being pretty cool and pretty stupid.
@@viewer6152What the fuck are you on about? What made you jump to that conclusion?
In high school, 10th grade, i completed the Hoenn Dex so i could get a Johto Starter to transfer up to Pearl. After i accomplished that, i decided to try to beat the Hoenn Battle Frontier. (Just Silver Symbols). When i got to the Battle Palace, it took me 2 years to beat it... and it was eventually the final one i needed to beat. I couldn't even beat the Lead Crobat. I even had a friend with an Gameshark get me a Wonder Guard Sableye... and Crobat easily beat it with Toxic. But eventually, 12th Grade year, i beat it with the help of my Glalie. It beat the Crobat, and i went on to win the battle, and had then gotten all 7 Symbols! ...Never bring back the Battle Palace Gimmick, ever, Gamefreak!!
Holy shit the amount of dedication you must have had for that
I respect the heck out of you!
it's so depressing, that we're probably never getting post game content of this kind ever again
Yeah:’(
Sadly post game stuff of this caliber is DLC now or found in Black/White 2.
The closest we got to a competitive Difficulty spike is in Indigo Disk focusing on doubles and competetive team building. A good expansion but sullied by the Dexit and DLC wall.
SV and SwSh DLC be like 🙄😳
They got our hopes up by bringing back BP but then it just turned out to be blueberry points 😅
Very little people bothered with it and who can blame them.
Totally agreed; the Battle Palace is a neat concept but such an unfun experience. I've been talking with my friends about some of the Frontier challenges lately and we collectively lamented this one lmao.
I remember putting endless hours into battle frontier as a kid, I managed to get gold symbols in everything but only silver in battle palace. It felt so impossible I ended up using a gameshark to modify my teams stats to 999 to finish the last gold symbol and didn't even feel bad about it
I kinda did it on Battle Tower with save states because it was tedious as heck, hell pretty much half of the Hoenn Battle Frontier was tedious.
No wonder GF didn't implement it anymore
Yeah, I feel like people forget like, 70% of the battle frontier outside of the tower anf factory when reminiscing about it. Tower and factory are iconic, but the rest? Arena and dome just have minor gimmicks (and especially arena just basically rewards pressing attacks like a braindead ghoul), and the other three facilities imo are just RNG luckfests. So out of 7, like 3-4 max are even good to decent. Gen 4 did it better with the castle and hall introducing more strategy into it, but I really don't miss the battle frontier at all, and imo the frontier isn't even the best post-game since it's just brainless grinding and hoping for luck. Which to me is like saying looter shooters have "infinite content" because you grind out stuff forever. @@ammagon4519
@@ammagon4519I always thought so too, i want post game stuff but more on the adventure side with the teams i like and the pokemon i want to use, not this competitive stuff that never appealed to me at all. I spent a hour with the battle frontier and knew that this isn't for me and had honestly more fun with the extra episode in the remakes and finding the legendaries in the wormholes.
One thing I actually liked about Sword and Shield was how those games actually lowered the barrier to entry for the competitive scene. EV training was easier than ever, IV's could be maxed out with hyper training and getting to level 100 to do so wasn't hard either. They also had nature changing mints and even had a way to change a Pokemon's ability to it's hidden ability in the Crown Tundra. Sadly, outside of actual competitive battles, the only place you could use these hyper powerful mons was at the Battle Tower which is a battle facility that you could beat with a rental team. I really would like the Battle Frontier or some similar facility to return someday.
Pokemon: hey you know that traded Pokemon system nobody likes? Let's make an entire challenge around it
The Civ5 "someone else just finished the wonder you spent the last 20 turns building" sound effect startled me.
6:15 'The Key at the end of the day ... isn't optimizing for success, it's avoiding too much frustration'. There's some life wisdom in that.
Spent years on the Frontier as a kid. I liked having lots to do in the post game but the Frontier rewards are insanely hard to get for casuals. You need really long winstreaks and all it takes is for bad RNG or just not having the right counter to a certain strategy. I only ever managed all silver badges on the physical game. I ended up getting gold on an emulator which still actually took a couple days with savestates.
I also abused save states on my emulator to get the gold symbols. On several playthroughs.
@@wikiuser92especially Palace. No, you gonna keep rerolling till you do what I want.
Honestly there's no shame in that. When I replay emerald or platinum I only go for silvers and nothing more. I like to use my in-game teams and would rather not go for perfect Pokémon when I'm just trying to play the game. Golds just aren't feasible for your average in game team
Hearing that i wonder why people want it back. Seems like other approaches to post game would be better.
One of the most necessary videos about Pokemon I could imagine. Holy crap there’s no way a kid could figure this out
If you ask me, "Battle Factory" was the most fun in idea and execution quality. I mean, its quite roguelikesque and with enough adjustment and features, you can make a gamemode that is hella fun. I mean just imagine this stuff with modern features and newer monsters.
Have you heard of the hack “Emerald Rogue?” It’s a full blown rogue lite and I really enjoyed it.
@@stubbwinkley4015 Yeah, i know that hack. It seems really fun, but i never had time to play it sadly :(
I liked it because I never had time to EV train (it was absurdly difficult in older gens) so having ones that were trained for me was nice
I honestly wish a challenge like the Battle Palace would return just without all the obfuscation of how it works, just to attempt to build teams for it with newer mechanics.
once it gets this complex it makes me wonder if just like, one person or small team came up with the whole thing and whoever had to write the text was like "yeah i ain't reading all that i'll just put what i understand"
Metagross! STOP DOING NOTHING!! -9 Year Old Me in the battle palace
Its funny that this was supposed to create an understanding with your pokemon and instead it makes you just throw out ones you can't use for something better.
Seeing that little display of the Frontier in ORAS with the final line of “coming soon” was both a slap in the face and a colossal middle finger from Gamefreak.
It feels like they were gonna add it in an update ala animal crossing new leaf but then the game never got updated
You got Zinnia and the Deoxys fight instead.
Fair trade.
@@a-s-greig If you believe that is a fair trade then being a businessman isn't your strong suit my friend
@@plebmcpleb5761 Correct in the assessment and incorrect about the implications. She's the best NPC they ever made.
@@a-s-greig I respect your opinion then if you like her that much!
It’s a shame that game freak doesn’t merge many of the good older mechanics and modes with the ones found in newer releases. We finally get an easy way to change natures and ivs, plus new Pokémon, abilities and items, but it really doesn’t matter when there are no in-game challenges that make this stuff worth doing or learning. Sure you can battle online, but that’s a centralized meta so creativity is somewhat limited by viability. Even talking to NPCs, which provided so many interesting details and clues, has been largely removed. Two steps forward, one step back for Pokémon
That's a nice way to say Game Freak doesn't really make sequels that iterate on their mechanics and just make the same game over again
@@tankiegirl true. It for sure sucks that some traditionally bad or overlooked mons get new forms like megas which are then completely axed after 1 gen
@@schwiftyschwimmer And even the mechanics not tied to specific Pokemon - such as Legends Arceus' move styles and "forecasting" the turn order, Legends Arceus' more involved dex completion process (which I know not everyone is a fan of but I personally thought it was a massive improvement over the one-and-done approach of the rest of the series), or, ya know, _Legends Arceus' whole field interaction thing with some Pokemon attacking you the human_ - get left behind not even a generation's worth of games later
@lordmarshmal_0643 I really dislike the concept of Pokemon "attacking humans" as I feel it's supposedly a family friendly version of most monster taming games, although I get it's funny when Pokemon pursue you.
This was one of the two places in the frontier where i had REALLY good luck. I had a Crobat, Lapras, and Raikou that just always did what i wanted. I had no clue why they worked, they just loved me .
Your videos are very pleasing to watch, no excessive meme editing or earblasting, and funny moments that arent overwhelming, very informative, love them!
I found that the simplest way to tackle the Palace was to just remove every defense or support move from the Pokémon and lead with a strong Choice Band Pokémon since you'll always know what move it'll use after turn 1 if it decides to attack. That is to say, ignore its gimmick as much as possible lol
10:07 “but unlike usual, those finer details go a long way here to make the experience even less friendly to the player than it already is”
…so just like usual XD
The battle frontier rocks! Not getting it in Gen 6 despite characters in-game mentioning it was an absolute travesty. Love to see it getting some shine!
Yeah. The Battle Frontier didn't exist in Ruby/Sapphire, as it is a FRLG and Emerald addition, but ORAS focused on being a Ruby/Sapphire remake above all else, so we never ended up getting it Gen 6.
It seems doubtful we are getting anything resembling the Battle Frontier anytime soon unfortunately, as the last Battle Frontier was created in 2008, around 15 years ago.
@the_bookworm8281
That is not the reason so stop using that lame exuse for it. Same thing with people giving excuses why Distortion world etc. Weren’t in BDSP, ”tHeY aRe DiAmOnD aNd PeArL rEmAkEs.” Of course they are and should take elements from the in every way superior game lmao.
They left out Battle frontier not because they were ”ruby and sapphire remakes” but because they were so disconnected with their fanbase that they thought people wouldn’t care for it. One of the dumbest moves they have ever made
@@grydon6422 To be fair, ORAS takes place in a different universe. Still doesn't excuse the lack of Battle Frontier though.
@@grydon6422 Agreed. HGSS had the gen 4 Battle Frontier, while there was nothing in the originals and Crystal only had the Battle Tower. I don't understand while people are trying to be apologetic for gamefreak's laziness.
@@FloorFourteenand HGSS also had elements from Crystal, like the Eusine plot
when droomish speaks i sit my ass down and listen
Hard to believe this is even more luck based than the actual luck based challenge in the Battle Pike.
You think you know your Pokemon until you put them to the Battle Palace and watch them ignore your commands for 5 turns.
great job on this one team, I was there for the field research and really enjoyed seeing this one come together! Editing was sublime :]
I remember crying when I finally got my Emerald gold card. This place filtered out the great trainers from the legends
Or the lucky ones. I’m just saying.
Battle Palace and Battle Factory were luck based but the Battle Factory was somewhat fun while the Battle Palace was pure bullshit. Fuck the Battle Palace.
regardless of luck; the time investment and perseverance in the face of adversity is why legends come out the other side. Everyone knows the AI is merciless, but the challenge is still there.
@@hibbs1712 It’s a video game.
Have you not heard about how the only way to win is not to play? You’re not a legend.
You’re just a guy smashing his head against a rock until they win. Ignore the concussions and severe internal bleeding and the major waste of time.
If it was making legends, it wouldn’t be focused on luck where it can fuck you up without hesitating and you stand no change if it wants you dead.
@@PerfectAzrael oh man. That is the saltiest, most cynical take on single player Pokémon endgame I have ever seen. I hope you can find some determination within yourself to complete a challenge!! 💞
Dear god. I am so glad that we had the pokemon crystal guide for maximum GSC enjoyment back in the day.
The saving grace for the battle palace is that the enemy has to play by the same rules as you, so they don't get to pick all of their best moves and sometomes fail to do anything. Spencer is just tough though.
The strategy that worked for me was using a Hasty Tyranitar. At high hp it generally attacks or uses Dragon Dance. At low HP it almost always just attacks. I think i threw Attract on it as well just so it has something to do when it decides to use a support move.
When I first got the battle palace back when the game came out my team kept getting annihilated and of course I had no idea how it worked. That was until I entered a Mightyena, a pokemon I did not use regularly but had brought onto my team to help out against powerful psychics that kept getting the better of me.
It absolutely swept the battle palace, don't remember its nature, but somehow it could do what none of my regular team could.
found this channel the other day and really enjoying it. very snappy, solid editing and sincere voiceover. good stuff
I'd still put the Battle Factory at the top of the list for unfair locations, if only because every time I went there it would just refuse to give me *any* usable Pokemon.
STOP OFFERING ME FURRETS WITH HELPING HAND WHEN I'M DOING THE SINGLE BATTLE CHALLENGE, GOD DAMMIT!
I actually made it to Spenser for the first time yesterday, so this video coming out today is a cool coincidence. Got completely screwed over by the RNG though, my Hasty Starmie missed 2 non-flying thunderbolts in a row off of 1 first turn double team and my other 2 Pokemon died to Lapras' Horn Drill
I never played much of Emerald's postgame, but this video made me REALLY want to get into the gamemode. Building teams for the AI to use sounds like a blast.
Literally every other facility is more fun
I remember there was this kid in my afterschool program with me who had all the gold badges. I had never even gotten 1 and had never seen anyone else with any. This kid was a legend
The Wii home menu got me, that was a fantastic edit
I Really like the Civ 5 sound effect you kept & the Keyblade summoning. nice touch.
I never even got the hang of Contests. This would have driven me up a wall and down again. One of the few pros of not having Emerald as a kid. (The biggest con, of course, is the stinking present-day price. No, it's not worth 5 times the original price, and you KNOW that, online seller!)
4:50 The Battle Palace wasn´t something that the game brought up out of the blue, one of the Battle Tents (the one from Vendarturf town) had a set of rules similar to the battle palace so players could get used to this different type of battling pretty early on in the game.
Yeah I've always thought it was neat that they have Battle Tents that give you a taste on what the Battle Frontier would be
Just wanna say the Drilldozer 3rd gear track at the end of your videos always makes me happy 🎉
Great vid on such a cool subject/area in Gen 3!!
I like that this shows how it's not that Pokemon lore is wrong... just that it doesn't transfer as well into game play....
I was so happy to see this huge post-game battle theme park as a kid and then I quickly realized the game fuckin cheats and makes it virtually impossible to win
I'd like to see an endgame challenge similar to this one where it takes away your gym bages and makes it where your ability to control your pokemon is based on trust and friendship instead.
I've recently started an emerald file with the intent to conquer the battle frontier for the first time. Looking forward to getting to deal w/ this lol
Played Drill Dozer the other day and now I’m extremely happy seeing you use its music for an outro. But the battle frontier was something I hated in Emerald since I never got the technicalities of pokemon when I was younger. And seeing my fury at the palace be vindicated is just the cherry on top.
I can't say enough times how ORAS and BDSP not having a battle frontier was my biggest disappointment in remakes
Why? The RNG Frontier was utter crap
@@boshwa20Beacuse nostalgia. Gen 3 and 4 fanboys are insufferable. Sinnoh was only good beacuse of Platinum
For all the work that goes into making these types of challenges, I am absolutely the type of person who would want nothing to do with this level of gameplay. It's turning Pokémon into spreadsheets.
Pokemon is spreadsheets
Palace is made a lot more manageable by having a moveset which uses at least one of each category of move. I used a Regice with Ice Beam, Rest, and Toxic, and that worked pretty well.
I can't imagine that working well enough for a 21 or 42 battle win streak without a lot of luck, but I could be wrong
@@JDAWG2111if they made the Regice super bulky by maxing out special defense and hp along with relying on its naturally high physical defense I could foresee Regice being a good wall when the move choices are a crapshoot, especially if he gave it curse or amnesia.
Entered the battle palace with the Metagross in my first save in my party, got to the last trainer of the gauntlet before I had to use it. It proceeded to use iron defense and ONLY iron defense until it was KOed, never went back.
I also had the same thing with a shiny LAX metagross also Verdanturf contest is also the reason why I hate the battle frontier
What’s sad is that a challenge of this level would be so welcomed in TODAYS Pokémon climate
If it was then why is it not implemented in the recent games?
No it wouldn’t. You sound like every idiot that somehow lost to Cynthia so speak for yourself.
@@ammagon4519the makers want the game to be easy :) for the kids :))
Because Game Freak is out of touch, basically. @@ammagon4519
@@ammagon4519Because game freak is too lazy to implement it.
Wooouuugh, I'm like 90% sure I also named my Latios "Big Hoss" some twenty years ago.
So, is THIS why Game Freak massively overcorrected later in the series to make the games ridiculously easy, kill the post game challenges, and discourage competitive play? Because they looked at Battle Frontier and how alienating it was to young players, and were just EMBARRASSED to a degree that they never wanted it to happen again? Like sure, Battle Frontier was really obnoxious. But I don't think they had to utterly BURY the technical aspect of pokemon's potentially strategic core gameplay. All because an 8 year old might cry after discovering that their level 100 charizard isn't the best pokemon ever.
This is POSTGAME content too
Who’s to say a kid will even get here and not reset the game five times and forget about it
Now that I play competitively I understand the battle frontier but when Emerald came out I was so confused why everything dismantled me
Just how the old man looks in the thumbnail. He knows…
???
Hasty nature was my favorite nature for a very long time because of the Battle Palace. Used the paperback guide all those years ago to determine Hasty was the one to go with. Eventually beat it with Raikou, Sceptile, Salamence, all Hasty nature.
If anyone needs advice with this place, I beat it on, like, second try with lead Naughty Gyarados. I don't remember the other two, but this mon was completely bonkers. Naughty nature prioritises Dragon Dance when >50%HP and Return and Earthquake for
Battle frontier is probably the hardest thing to do in Pokemon but I couldn’t do it without save states.
I remember finding out about this battle facility and just couldn't believe it, in fact I possibly at some point attempt it myself because it's so ridiculous, gen 3 was kinda brutal at times
Winning the gold here at the Palace is still my battle record on the start-menu frontier pass and every now and then I pop open my game boy and replay it. My team did great. I absolutely studied bulbapedia and got together a team that was fairly aggressive but wouldn't waste a turn (Actually got my friend with Colosseum to trade me a singing Marowak so it had a good support move, for example). It's still a favorite gaming accomplishment of mine. Thanks for the nostalgia!
All this talk about obfuscating game mechanics within the code beneath the guide beneath the in-game descriptions is the EXACT reason that I've never gone beyond the casual level in Smash despite knowing a lot for a casual. There are just too many mechanics that are completely invisible to the average player, and even to professionals.
Some examples:
DI makes absolutely no sense. For the longest time, I thought people were talking about a form of drift, like how Mario in Mario 64 can "directionally influence" his long jump trajectory mid-jump. But no, it only applies at the very start of the move, and it determines the entire trajectory. And even then, there are other factors like how DI in makes you die off the top by giving you a steeper trajectory while DI out does the opposite. And then you have to know the interaction between DI up and down with in and away, and then SDI is a completely different thing that isn't even related to DI and has its own set of convoluted mechanics.
Staling has a lot of invisible mechanics that aren't explained. At its core, the concept of moves getting weaker when you spam them is simple, and I knew about it since seeing the term in the score breakdowns in some of the Melee game modes. But staling also affects the amount of shield stun you inflict (which is another complicated mechanic btw). And then I still don't fully know how staling is triggered in the first place. Do moves stale if you hit shield? What about multihits? What about moves with different parts, like Falco's up throw where he shoots the laser afterwards? What about Link's forward smash, does that count as two different moves for staling? I know Fox can spam lasers to unstale his other moves, but can G&W do that with his bacon?
For God's sake, I didn't even know you had to mash Bowser's up B to make it go further. Every time I tried to play him, his up B went nowhere, but I always saw other people going a decent distance. Turns out you have to mash B to make Bowser go higher, which is completely counterintuitive, since no other recovery move has ever worked like that. Not only that, but apparently there's a specific rhythm you have to mash, where you wait like half a second before mashing to make it go higher.
That's probably a sign that people are trying too hard with a party game
This is a Digimon World Championship moment if I've ever seen one.
Oh god i remember that game
If you need a wiki/spreadsheet to understand the mechanics, perhaps they are not well designed
Even when I was little I knew the Battle Palace had a super unfair gimmick. It completely forces you to play and train in a way that goes agaonst most of what the game understands as competitive pokemon (as far gen 3 singles 3v3 format was concerned).
I built a whole team based on meticulous review of the Bulbapedia page and it was still a nail biting experience seeing if they would be able to make it to gold symbol 😱
What was the team?
@@brassllama098 toxic stall skarmory, sleep talk wailord, and the latios I used for the rest of the frontier (I had the same problem about modest nature that Droomish mentioned in the video)
factory and palace broke me on my 100% completion
Sadly the parts that make the Battle Frontier hard in an obnoxious way are mostly circumvented by the new systems they've introduced in later games. Want to make a custom moveset that actually works in the Battle Palace? Go ahead, you can just relearn your old moveset whenever you want for free. Want to breed or catch pokemon with stronger IVs? Wayyyyy easier. Want to EV train? Wayyyyy easier. Want a diverse pool of pokemon to pick from? Have like 4x the amount of mons that were available in original Emerald or more, even despite the dex cuts.
And this is why I always liked the Battle Factory the best. With the rental teams, it really didn't force any of the BS busywork or obscurity on the player: you just get to play pokemon battles and build teams in a super streamlined fashion.
This shouldn't inspire me to pick up Emerald again and see how well I do. But...
I like how the battle frontier is being as vague as possible on how the game works but then your mom straight out says you need to press a button to run.
The biggest reason people play video games, is because I have one thing I don't have in the real world: autonomy. As in, I'm in control of who I am and what I do. But that autonomy is an illusion: You do what that the game allows you to do, and it can be taken from you whenever the game feels like it. The American Dream where we can pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness via hard work and capitalism exists because there was a system in place to protect us. When it's gone, were back to filling out applications and told to wait for callbacks. In the Battle Temple you don't have a choice; you do what the game tells you to do, case closed. In face in most "endgame" or "post-game" scenarios, your "adventure" is over... now it's time to actually put on a uniform and go to work. Very VERY few people in this world get to be truly happy; and the rest of us are just playable NPCs.
Am I a masochist for thinking this would be cool to play if implemented in a special pokemon showdown game mode?
I think it'll be cool but modified to have a "Power of Friendship" mechanic that works once per battle. I suggested in a comment, something to reroll when overwhelmed, ignore the personality change when hurt and focus on a single target in Doubles.
What a fun idea for a video! I enjoyed this analysis and appreciate the distinction between difficult and unfair.
Imagine the hoenn battle frontier but with the teambuilding convenience of the modern games. Imagine being able to actually turn your team that beat the elite 4 into one that can take on the battle facilities with nature mints and bottle caps. But for some reason the modern games aren't just satisfied making the main game braindead easy but also just removing all the endgame challenges that could challenge players while not inconviniencing the baby trying to win the game with one move.
The old games were easy. Don’t be a nostalgia clown and get over yourself.
I prefer winning with skill and effort. Not hoping to avoid bad luck by ending up in a unwinnable situation and being forced to lose like in Battle Frontier.
@@PerfectAzraeli hate leon he destroyed me thrice before finally losing
I don’t agree with it, but with crud like this, I can now see why the Battle Frontier was scrapped in later games. I think, if properly configured to be less time consuming and more fair, the Battle Frontier would be an amazing gimmick to make a comeback. But definitely not with RNG of this ridiculousness and how some NPCs deliberately use Pokemon that counter your entire team.
Don't get me started on the Battle Palace. I got to Spencer twice and the first time he swept my team with crobat. The second time his Lapress swept all 3 of my mons. I think he landed a horn drill twice in a row. The pure bullshit RNG in the Palace is insane. I can see why it didn't return in Pt. I'm still trying to make my way through there, its pretty easy to get to the silver challenge. I definitely need a mon who can take out water types consistently
This battle facility was the bane of my existence. I’m all for different types of facilities, heck I’m a weirdo who’s favorite facility is the Battle Pyramid.
Despite how I always hope we see the battle frontier again, this place should remain wiped from existence permanently
Just found your channel recently and I'm really enjoying your videos. Thanks for all the hard work you put into these!
I love how you make pokemon content. So much time is dedicated on youtube towards making top 10 X, can i beat game with Y, how many shiny pokemon can i put in one video: Some of these are fun videos, but they fail to address some of the experiences a normal player will encounter throughout their time actually playing the game. I love the idea of investigating if the rival is lying to you, and explaining some of the very specific mechanics that were intentionally left vague in the games is usually left to forum digging. Theres a lot of weird little quirks in every pokemon game, where the developers just kinda threw together a bunch of ideas for a core, but optional mechanic, and then leave the player entirely in the dark about what they can do to affect it. So thanks, you make some good shit.
This is why Emerald is heralded as my favorite game. Sadly, the last copy I had was stolen, so I'll need to get a new one to experience this again
Just download the ROM on the internet. It’s been out of print for decades at this point so there’s no harm being done.
I remember getting absolutely destroyed as a child by the battle frontier and just ignoring it. Now as an adult I cheat and basically time travel by save scumming before every move lol. It doesnt even feel that bad since the game does all it can to frustrate you.
If they ever did this again, something like a simple 3 way system where when selecting your Pokémon preferred moves are highlighted in blue, disliked are red and neutral are left normal (so no switching tactics at low health), could be really good. I hope we get different styles of battling again like at the Battle Frontier or even like in Pokémon Battle Revolution, especially since EV training and the like are so EASY now compared to the brutal grind it was back in these games.
I wonder if this facility was inspired by shin megami tensei devil summoner. In that game, your monsters (demons) have personality types that prefer certain battle strategies.
It works in that game because their personality types arent random and compliment their stats.
2 videos in and I'm greatly enjoying your style! Funny and without cussing.
Subbed!
How old are you? Nine?
@@MezzoForte4 no, I just have standards for the content I watch.
9:52 I've noticed a clear design trend in Nintendo games since their beginnings, to obscure the math of their game's code as much as possible. I think it's to make the game feel more immersive or otherwordly. I admit it gives me this effect. It feels nice to discover small interactions and patterns myself through experience and experimentation
The internet has banished that design philosphy from really working anymore, though
Whenever I broach the subject of RNG, particularly in the realms of games like Pokemon, Mario party, and Darkest Dungeon, I always relate it to how much exactly is on the line, and what information is intentionally left out and for what purpose. Mario party is a party game that's MEANT to throw you off guard with random whacky nonsense, but it's a casual environment where it's expected that you can just get screwed over for participating. The Battle Tower in Pokemon Emerald, and the entirety of Darkest Dungeon relies on obscuring facts intentionally to screw you over in order to throw the veil of "difficulty". It's not "difficult", it's just intentionally unfair by design to soak up your time. Whether that is something someone is okay with is up to them, but I'm always left wondering why they designed a game in such a way with meticulous details and systems, but couldn't have a simple tutorial or rules sheet easily available to participants.
Athletes don't show up to events in the dark as to what they're supposed or allowed to do. Why are we punished for wanting to know how to obtain victory?
I don't dislike challenge, I dislike being judged on my ability to throw dice and hope they roll the numbers that I need them to.