I live near a Harley dealership. Every Sunday Harley owners get together and ride. Ninety-five percent of them are guys in their late 40s and older, on a touring bike, with their fat wife on the back. The other five percent are younger guys, who have totally bought into the image that owning a Harley automatically makes you a badass, especially if the bike has ape hangers. To me, Harley is what Cadillac used to be in the '80s: the brand for your grandparents.
3rd generation Harley Davidson Only rider/builder/fabricator here: and well….i can’t say I disagree with you!? Haha you tastefully hit the nail on the head! As most American established companies shortly after establishing outsourcing was a must. They build their brand off image/clothing & marketing any product you want (literally!) Well spoken and well said! I see more equitable brand loyalty starting to happen & I dig it! Thank You for your hard work it’s been a blast/pleasure to watch!
Billy, thanks for taking the time to watch. Most just see the thumbnail and think the video is me bashing HD when I am actually complimenting them on doing such a great job!
Im a certified Harley tech and i have to say.... there is a reason i quit that corp lol. Not only do they charge out the ass for bikes that have more problens than a teenage taylor swift fan, the amount you pay in services at the dealer that they recommend..... will cost you the amount of a sportster or more. This guy is absolutly right. The videos they push on the employees say exactly what this guys says lol.. great stuff. They do make us techs money tho and some people love giving away money.
I bought a used 2008 1200 Nightster October 2023. Had 1047 miles on it. Dude got hurt and couldn"t ride anymore. Kept it in his garage for 15 yrs. His friend would ride it around the block a few times every 2 weeks. Right before I got it he had put brand new tires, new battery, and fresh oil change at the dealer. Paid $6k for it. I love that bike
I have a new 2023 anniversary Tri-Glide. I paid $48000 out the door. I do my own work and I just did my 5000-mile inspection. I found the front axle pinch bolt was stripped out in the socket. The brake fluid had almost 4% water content. The heat deflectors didn't have the special nuts crimped, so the lower screws were doing nothing. The spark plug wires were not tie strapped to the frame under the seat area. The adjuster on the rear axle was 3/16" wider on the right side compared to the left side and the triple tree is a few degrees to the right when the front wheel is straight. The ground strap in the trunk was disconnected. So I would say that Harley's quality control is not there. My American made Hondas are much better.
I'm British born and bred, I bought a Triumph Bonneville America brand new back in 2003 and still ride it most days! I also own a Harley Davidson Dyna Street Bob 2007 which is somewhat customised and is number 130/200 of the Grim Reaper limited edition paintjob. I love them both, they each draw attention at bike meets. Both are 'cruiser' bikes but have totally different characters. The Triumph is better suited to our twisty roads and lanes here in England but the Harley is my choice for the long and straight motorway rides. Great video, keep flying the Triumph flag!
Hey Weems! Have you ever thought about some people may ride Harleys because they just like the looks and sound of a Harley? I know this will amaze you, but 'most' people I think, are not into going as fast as is humanly possible. In a straight line, or around curves. Surprisingly, 'most' grow past that kind of behavior around their mid twenties, providing they haven't killed themselves, or watched a friend go off a cliff. It's really amazing how much fun Harley's are to just cruise on. I have more fun cruising my Harley at 45 mph, than I ever did riding my Triumph Trident like a wild man, back in the day. The Triumph was faster, would go around curves a lot faster, and had a unique 'snort' that no other bike could replicate. But the looks and ' sound' of the Harley was something that just made my experience so much more enjoyable, and I didn't have to be wringing it out like a teenage moron to get it. Which may have a lot to do with why I'm 75, and still alive to ride. Oh, and everybody doesn't walk around with all that phony crap you referred too. (the clothes, and attitude) Harley's are just fun to ride. To bad you can't just accept that, instead of trying to disect everything. There is One thing I hate about Harley's though, and that's the ever present "arrogant" attitude of the people that work at the dealerships! From the top to the bottom, those people, for the most part, will probably be the end to HD. And they're all SO ARROGANT, they can't see it. Oh well... their loss. I've got mine!
I'm on the north side of 70 and have owned many motorcycles. I currently have a Harley Davidson, 2 Yamaha's, and a Honda. I like all of them because they are for different purposes. All of them are reliable and reasonably easy to work on. I recently added a Trailmaster Hurricane 200x minibike to the mix. All fun, all for different uses.
Here is a description of the typical HD rider. He is a middle-aged white man dressed in what is basically a pirate costume. He has a preference for beards. He wears a rag on his head instead of using a helmet. He usually has a wallet with a chain on it. He sports a thin black leather vest with numerous patches affixed to it. He wears Doc Martin-style boots. If he wears sun glasses, they will probably be the same brand as was used in "Sons of Anarchy". All of this allows him to think he is a non-conformist rebel bad-ass even though he looks like practically every other HD rider.
Yea that’s sad, at least everyone who hates on Harley doesn’t look the same with some obscure brand black t shirt, beard, and boots… that would be wierd if they all had early British hats and tucked other peoples yay..
It doesn’t have to be a v-twin. It doesn’t have to look classic. It just has to be good. I’ve owned many Japanese bikes, a Victory, a Trimph, and now my 1st Harley-Davidson, and I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a different brand. I like all kinds.
From my experience with Harley-Davidson the only honest bike they made up until recently was the Evo Sportster. Everything else was overpriced and overhyped. This is coming from a guy who did the "upgrade" to a big twin Harley. I don't regret trying a big twin Harley because it was an experience but the only Harleys I would ever buy again would be the Evo Sportster.
It's not just darley havidson, it's the owners. I've owned several and will never give up my 65 Panhead. But darley and their loyal riders refuse to grow with the times; stuck with V twin air cooled power when other engine designs prove better longevity. Exhaust is loud and made to be inefficient making engines heat and fail. Rider comfort is not a concern as much as an appearance. EVERY darley owner runs to the after market to upgrade, change and alter their outrageously over priced bike that cannot claim American Made. You are in my prayers Hoka Hey
I like my M8 softail heritage classic. I don't do gangs or wear fancy dress. I keep my self to myself, but if you're ok with me I'm fine with anyone who rides anything.
My Dad bought a KZ1100 in 1983 and still has it. It still runs pretty good and he's never been into the engine! A few carb rebuild and syncs and general maintenance.
Im a proud owner of a 2020 Triumph Rocket 3 GT and when a Harley guys stand beside me at a red light i can assure you that once they look at my bike they dont try to race me they give me the thumb up they know they cant stand a chance, i wear a full helmet a protection jacket and boots, im not wearing regular biker gears im more on the sporty side and protection gears, but every one choose what they like to ride and wear.
@@shadwox9808 not a Porsche motor they just had meeting with them on development watch making of the vrod the engine was developed out of the vr1000 race bike that set pole at Daytona better to research then reply just my opinion
I started out with a Triumph Bonnie in 1972 and rode them for 4 years till I got my first Harley. I was a fanatical Harley guy for almost 45 years then I got sick and couldn't ride my Streetglide anymore (to big and heavy) But I was not going to stop riding so I went back to my roots and bought a Triumph T100. Well I'll tell you I ride my Bonnie every year far way more than any Harley I had owned. I forgot how much better handling and FUN to ride than my Harleys .Hopefully I have many more years riding my beautiful Triumph!
I ride a 2000 XL1200 and get snubbed by the Harley Big Twin riders at times. Always get a chuckle out of it. I also have a CB750 Honda and a BSA 650 Lightning. I also don't own any H-D apparel or skull accessories. In the past I owned a Iron Head Sportster and a Shovelhead FXE.
Harley owners...spent the first 10 yrs just trying to buy a sportser then they spend the rest of their lives trying to trade up to a couch on wheels....
I tried to drink the cool aid. I couldn't do it. I had a beautiful 2007 Goldwing trike with a Motor Trike conversion kit. Which the Goldwing was assembled in US and the Motor trike was 100 percent made in Texas. I brought my trike to a Harley dealer and was looking at the time was the 2014 Mount Rushmore Street Glide edition. I pull into the Harley place and no one was in the shop. No one. The salesman says, metric bike huh? I say yeah, looking at a new Street Glide. He didn't get off the chair or want anything to do with me. I thought he was going to speed dial all his Harley buddies to get their torches and pitch forks to drive me out of there. I asked how much, he didn't respond. I said trade on the trike. He responded, no. I said I hope I don't slip on all the oil in the parking lot. That dealership is no longer their.
I absolutely love this video. I hate Harley so much that I bought a Gilroy Indian LOL.. I love old Sportsters though. First Chopper I obsessed about was a 76 Bonneville with a king and queen seat big old sissy bar. Problem is The Branding of counterculture that Harley embraced has now become into culture. I really have high hopes for the new TVS Norton motorcycle. In Royal Enfield is blooming beautifully with an owner's manual that actually States how to adjust the tappets instead of just open your wallet you're paying again.
I'm happy that you brought up the problem of demographics and HD. The fact that the average Harley rider is now in his 50's is a HUGE obstacle for the brand. The fact is, younger riders don't make the same associations with Harley that older folks do. For the older generation, they associate the brand with freedom and possibly even non-conformity. Films like Easy Rider and the coolness of outlaw culture helped Harley project this image. Over time, however, the brand has actually come to represent the OPPOSITE of those things. Quite simply, they have lost their cool. A younger rider doesn't see a guy on a $60k Road Glide, decked out in every piece of Harley emblazoned merch as cool. They see a middle aged white guy that looks like their dentist. It's pure conformity.
I feel so conflicted lol. My first bike was a Yamaha maxim 650… owned a couple viragos, a Honda CM400. Currently I own two Yamaha xs650s, a triumph America, and a 92 Harley ElectraGlide… I’ve felt every bit of snobbery dished out at me over the years. Everything I have I worked for and paid cash… but I gotta say, the Harley has been incredibly reliable, and she’s given me almost 50 mpg… I don’t ride for the image perse. I ride to get from A-B. I love my big touring bike. Weight is good. Power is nice but kinda overrated. Handling is kinda on you, but that said, I’d rather take mountain twisties on the America than the ElectraGlide… bikes are kinda like tools and none of them are Swiss Army knives. You buy what you like and what works for the job you wanna do, image or whatever aside… I wish triumph had kept their rocket III touring… but the triumph dealership near me has just as many snobbish jackasses working at it as Harley does… expected to be treated better as an owner. Anyhow, long story short, while everything you say is true, I own and love triumph and Harley and Yamaha and wouldn’t hesitate to own another Honda… I like bike. Except crotch rockets, won’t throw a leg over one, gross lol. Someday triumph might bring back a touring bike and I’d like to try one out. Till then I’m probably a pretty loyal Harley guy because that’s the tool that works for me.
I had an 2004 sporty and then a 06 dyna street bob about 14 years ago. I had nothing but trouble with my street bob. Always in the shop, first year 6 speed, are stators and charging systems every month for 3 months straight. Told Harley to come get the P.O.S. Started buying vintage triumphs and building choppers, then moved into Panheads and Shovelheads. Still have one pre unit left I’m building for. Y chick. Still love old triumphs, but I also love my pas,shovels and knuckleheads. The old Harley’s were great if you like old bikes, any old bike is a labor of love. It’s all what you’re into, but I just don’t care for newer bikes or cars. All my cars are old and I drive them as well. When they rust I repair, when they need maintenance I maintenance them. That’s still better to me then having a loan on a Chinese made piece of crap, assembled in America, that’s controlled by computers, or whereever they make the stuff now, it’s probably crap, overpriced crap. There’s a reason OEM parts still work. They are serviceable, and were better made. That’s why Harley Davidson sucks, and the fact that they got away from making cool bikes. That’s just my opinion though.
Minus my Mongo like spelling. Honestly though man, I’d be embarrassed to own a new Harley Davidson. It’s even worse when you see these people who buy all the gear and go out and play Billy Badass…it’s kind of a joke. Again, that’s just me though.
Harley is almost the worst bike you can buy for reliability and factory workmanship and quality control. Royal Enfield is the worst. I love my Yamaha. My broken Harley is against the wall in my garage never to be fixed. I keep it to remind me to never ever buy another Harley.
All I’ve ever owned are Yamahas. My biker gang buddy told me he’d never ride with me if I rode “Jap Crap”. Oh well, I really want to be seen near a Harley anyways.
At $12k I might have thought about trading in my Bolt for a Sportser S, but the only model that I can see me riding and actually using is the 900 with a more standard rear fender for mounting bags, sissybar, and a step-up seat. Lots more work to get that done on the 1250 Sportster. The 900 only starts being appealing at like a $9k price tag. Even that is a stretch, though.
You forgot fun. One of my favorite bikes is a motorized bicycle, its front wheel drive (so you can lock the rear brake and drift/skid turns easily through intersections over 20 mph, its top speed is only 27 so you loose a little speed), it's not particularly reliable and with likely around 1 HP from a 25cc engine at 12k rpm its not exactly a rocket ship (though it does climb fairly steep hills without much issue and can play ramping dirt off-road too). It's handling is pretty top notch being front wheel drive, but it wins in the fun factor. I've had people of all ages want to hop on and take it for a drive, anyone that's 8 to 88 (and yeah even older is fine too), I'll let them hop on and go ride around for as long as they want. I've even had pretty much a stadium of people cheer it on (it was during a college game day, so many people out in the streets, I don't know if they thought it was a show or what when I was smoking tires at the intersection for fun, but had dozens of people ask about it that day and handful of test drives). Made great fuel economy, but more importantly a lot of smiles!
I like how you don't seem to have a problem with pigeon holding an entire group of people. If I did not know any better I swear that was being bigoted :-) I have a Harley with over 46,000 miles all I've done was change the oil, oil filter, and tires I'm pretty happy how about yourself?
I agree HD is a marketing first and bike second kind of company. The boomers lapped up the bad boy marketing imagery for years and HD rested on that. Of course keeping that image alive is pretty tough when it’s juxtaposed with who most the HD riders u see now are, which is mostly old and fat! Not knocking them…that’s most of us when we get older, but it does create a marketing problem! Have u been to Sturgis? Outside of the occasional cosplay rich guys wife and the ladies hired to work it’s like the Westminster Kennel Club. When the entry price is 15k it’s a tough sell for younger buyers and when HD has tried to go below that there bikes look like some H.S. Kids summer project with an HD emblem slapped on. I think HD is doing the best they can but they dug themselves a pretty big hole.
Maybe the Speed Twin doesn't make too much power because if you want that much power you buy the Speed Triple RR that makes 177.6 bhp (yes, .6. It's important.) and has 125 Nm of torque. Plus it goes round bends and looks pretty whilst doing it. 😀
agree 100%- I was given an 06 ultra classic by my father-in-law. ow he is old school( motor-cop 35 yrs ). He loves his HD and it's a real honor to be given this immaculate machine he has cherished for 20 years. I've been on two wheels for two decades, and I've had several standards throughout that time, this is my first HD. The maintenance on this bike is so outrageously expensive, that I don't know where to start... the cheaply manufactured parts or the 200 p/h labor. Let's not forget having to deal with obnoxious, "I know way more than you" attitudes I have been getting from my neighborhood HD dealer. Did I mention that the labor is nearly $200.00 an hour? Still, there's a lot of history that comes with this bike, so I digress. I would never slap down 20k on a HD. Not when I could purchase 2 slightly used Japanese bikes for the same $. As for the final point, there IS a division between bikers. It's kinda funny however that with there being so many new, different kinds of riding and bikes out there in 2024, the only static I ever seem to see is between HD & everyone else. Huh, must just be a coincidence.🤔
For me personally I don’t care about brands of any kind.I currently own & ride a Honda.so I get plenty of hate from Harley purest.I like bike as shadetree says.hey we’re all on 2 wheels till glory. Be all inclusive not exclusive.
The new water cooled Sportster should be $11K max. Honda has the the new 1100cc Rebel they are selling for $9.5K. If history is any indication the Honda will be vastly superior in just about every way and smoke the Harley performance wise. Being old myself, I agree there are guys in my age group who if they couldn't have a Harley they just wouldn't ride. Don't see that attitude a lot among the younger crowd, which is who you would think the Sportster is made to appeal too. So Harley might have a tough sell if their new Sportster has a $6K premium over a Honda Rebel. Actually when I talk to young guys they universally say Harleys are an old mans bike and a lot add that it's a douchebags bike, that last might mean that Harley's marketing really isn't all that good. Finally I find the US's present economic situation, high inflation during a recession to be eerily similar to the economy of the late 70's early 80's when Harley almost went belly up.
I currently have an 05 roadking but the best bike I've had was a 03 Honda Sabre. It was heavy with the drive shaft but I never had mechanical/electrical issues with before trading in for a 13 street bob, yes I was a 42 year old dyna-bro 😆
i agree with #1. I'm so over Harley riders and even people who don't ride think that HD is the pinnacle and all riders should aspire to ride a HD. I agree the company does great things for the community but the attitudes of most HD riders is they are weekend Outlaws while sitting in the Tim Hortons parking lot. I stress to people I work with that I'm NOT a biker, I'm a guy who rides a bike (I have 2 honda and a Yamaha).
All these comments are incredibly bizarre. First off I've never been to a Tim Hortons and secondly I have no problem with people riding Hondas or Yamahas or Suzukis or triumphs or whatever. But there seems to be a whole band of you out there who hate Harley riders. I think it's you that have the problem.
I was literally having the Triumph-Harley horsepower discussion with some other Triumph riders yesterday. The Nightster is making more hp than the Triumph 1200 "High Torque" twin, and almost as much as the 1200 "High Power" version in the Speed Twin. By comparison, my 2019 Street Scrambler 900 should be making in the 80-90 hp range, and the 1200 should be well over 100 hp. The worst part is there are no performance upgrade parts that would get you close to the hp figures H-D is getting from the Rev-Max motors. On the plus side for Triumph, the Sportster S and Nightster seem to be way less practical than any of the modern classic line-up, and the Triumphs are much more affordable.
I’m a Ducati rider, I have a pikes peak multistrada. I saw a video by Maximorides on YT and it sparked my interest in Harley Davidson. Generally speaking I looked negatively at HD because for 30k, Ducati is giving me 170+ HP and 100ftlbs torque, forged wheels, brembo m50 or better brakes, ohlins electronic suspension etc.. Harley is just giving me a few more cubic inches and different color schemes. But out of curiosity I went to my local dealer to test ride the road glide ST. It was heavy and a bit of a boat at first. But when you get it rolling it was surprisingly easy to handle. On the road it turned in pretty well for a 1000+ pound total mass (rider + bike), the brakes worked very well keeping in mind the size and weight. The power of the 117 was surprisingly good for the size of the bike as well. It pulled good and got me up to 75 mph from 10mph in no time, I was in third gear. At speed 60-70 mph it was easy enough to flick side to side to see how well it could avoid a road hazard at speed. The faring diverted wind around me nicely and only could feel air flow on the top of my helmet, I’m 6’1”. I know my current bike is superior performance wise, but the Harley for being 350lbs ish heavier did pretty well. Looking over the bike nothing seemed “low quality”. Some things could have been improved but it was a nice motorcycle. Idk if it’s 30k nice but I’ll admit that I’ve been wrong about these motorcycles. The customer base and business practices have kinda put me off from HD generally speaking on top of my perception of the old design which I now see wasn’t completely accurate. I’m uncertain about HD for now. But their bikes are pretty good for what they are (atleast the one I test rode). I wish for 30k, they offered the 131, ohlins, better breaks and standardized safety features.
Having tasted many type fruits in my life. Never thought to be loyal to one specific type. I like them all and eat them whenever I feel like having either. If the cost of one increases over the others without nutritional benefits, i won’t eat too much of it or simply stop buying it because I can’t afford it. End of the day, it serves as fuel to my body or soul.
I don't fit any box, never have. Up till a year ago I owned & rode 78 Bonny, 98 Zuki Gixer and 98 Harley FXSG. I passed on the Gix to a new rider who could handle the performance the older gal still made and keep it up reliable & looking almost new. Fixing to turn 74. I would rather ride somethig that is streetable than a bike that doesn't run. Not a brand fanatic. Any bike that runs well suits me just fine.
Idk if I would go that far...pretty bland bike but an Indian scout??? Triumph Bonnie or hell even an Engfield interceptor now where talking Rebel is mech sound....but so so 😴
You're thinking about it WAAAAYYYYY to much. I buy mine because: 1. I like them. 2. They are good. 3. They last. 4. They hold their value. I learned a long time ago I can think myself into parallysis or I can just get it done. The bottom line is I will see you there, same as you on whatever the hell you choose to ride.
I'm going to be 100% honest here. I love Harley-Davidson motorcycles. I love the Harley-Davidson culture. The people. I've owned and ridden Hondas. Kawasakis. Yamahas. Harleys. Suzukis. Triumphs. I've loved every motorcycle I've ridden. Lately, the direction Harley-Davidson has been taking as a company has soured me. I say this as a person who believed in and worked at Harley-Davidson dealerships for 17 years. I'll always love and bleed for the Bar & Shield, but I can't work at dealerships anymore. I may be an outlier. I'm an old school, blue collar guy. I don't want the sale. I want your business. I'll give a little on the short side to gain in the long game. I'll work with a long-term customer experiencing a hardship because I actually care. The customer culture is beautiful. The corporate culture has become toxic to me. I'm not a slave to metrics. It's not about K.P.I. to me. I don't care about maximizing profits and getting rich. I care about paying my bills and gaining the trust of my customers. I think Harley-Davidson may have lost sight of that. Build the relationship with the customers. They'll spend the money because they care. Be beholden to your customers, not your shareholders.
And for the record.....if I could find a Triumph for a reasonable price in Northern New England.....I'd buy it in a second. And as far as a motorcycle being American-made.....THERE ISN'T A SINGLE MOTORCYCLE MADE IN A SINGLE COUNTRY.
Agreed….unfortunate HD bikes are generally overpriced….however, the used market is booming, as someone back in the market for buying …there are a ton of these bikes out there for sale right now to choose from, prices are dropping….
My son has a 2016 Rocket 3 Roadster that has developed that apparent frequent problem, the valve cover gasket leaking. The closest place he can find that can work on it is 3 hours away, in Columbus, Ohio.
VALVE COVER??... lol That is a 15 minute job at best! Just order the part from Triumph direct, and they will probably suggest a YT link to show you how!
@@black8art 15 minutes??? no way its a lot more than that (i've done it) it takes a while just getting to where you remove the cover. A rat nest of wires with the plenum air box under the tank
I'm on my 4th gasket i empathize this is caused by not being torqued down 1st pass then 2nd pass correctly. its about 250.00 dollar job at my local dealership
I love the look of the cruisers Harley makes. I love the sound as they rev up. However, I'm not a fan of how they sound at idle. I prefer shaft drive to belt drive. I can't stand how bad Harley gouges people when they are cutting quality with cheap Chinese electronics. If you saved 3 grand putting lower quality electronics in my bike then shouldn't My bike be at least 2 grand cheaper? My Honda Shadow costed me a mere 7 grand with less than 300 miles on it from a dealer. The older Harley sitting next to it with 10k miles on it was selling for 13,000 I can respect it. It just isn't for me. Whatever you ride, keep the shiny side up and stay safe out there.
Sportster should be around $8,900 for an 883. No more than $12,500 for a 1200. Harley is dissolutionally overpriced. I paid $12,000ish for my Ultra Classic because I couldn't justify spending $32,000+ for a new one.
My youngest is just getting into bikes. I am from London , have ridden pretty much everything, owned a few. I have a old brit bike as a daily driver, I told the boy to buy a Harley. Why? here in japan they are cheap due to the market being flooded. However he wont lose money on a harley. He will buy it for 200 000 yen ride it and sell it for 200 or more. Me I crashed and lost money on pretty much all me bikes except me Enfield !
You‘ll lose money on every single bike, any, always, every time, even holding it for 40years. You lose less if you buy a cheaper bike and more if you buy a more expensive bike. It‘s simple and no Marketing and mouth-to-mouth false propaganda will ever change that. Yes, there are rare occasions where this is working outside of that, but no, it‘s a combination of finding a dumb buyer for a greedy sale, unfair business. And again, that can be done with many brands and models.
@@weemsmotorco Triumph guy here as well...owner of a 2014 'white stripe' Rocket III Roadster bought it new in 2015 demo model with 70 miles on it (45k trouble free miles)and it has been awesome no issues at all except the valve cover gasket but all in all awesome motorcycle. I agree with you Triumph- their marketing and events are just about non-existent they could learn much from H-D in that regard. But love my Rocket torque is insane...like riding a bull
All of Harley-Davidson sponsoring bike shows and giving expensive motorcycles away to Rich movie stars doesn't mean shit when they rip off their customers left right and Center. Their predatory sales practices and all of their other Shady dealings totally black in the image I have of them. When people wish AMF was back in charge of Harley Davidson you know things are bad. Everything Harley has done for 20 plus years has been a gross mistake and it shows. If it wasn't for the ride to drink drink to ride crowd Harley-Davidson would be a memory. Now I have a Sportster a 99 with 370,000 MI. It has been my most reliable bike more reliable than my wildest dreams. The company could you so much better if they turn their business practices around and made customer service number one but customer service in this country is a fading memory like Sears. If Harley-Davidson's motto was satisfaction guaranteed or your money back their bikes would be 100% reliable right off the line. And they think a sneaker guy is going to help them fat chance haha.
HD mastered "free advertising"....how many other companies have people getting tattoos and painting their logo on garages and trailers and a host of other things at zero cost to the company. They are the kings of advertising and brand recognition.
how much should a Harley cost? They really outta give a rider their first one after a 60 year track record of failure. After that first one the rider might actually pay the crazy $20-30-40,000. but they owe us a free first bike after raising the import tax on their competition back in the 80's
The new 1200rr speed triple...amazing looking and fast...to high priced tho...want an old big daytona 955i again...the reason you always see harleys in the shop is customization not repair to be honest...
I'd say a sportster in the state of CA should cost not a dollar more than 10k. I myself will never buy a NEW Harley due to the bs price tag. "4 valves per cylinder" "oil cooler" has a "cvo" badge that'll be 50,000 dollars please. What a JOKE.
The worst thing about HD is how they trade on the notion of tradition at the expense of their competitiveness in the overall motorcycle market. They have become a lifestyle brand that sells t-shirts and baseball caps and dealership experiences with restaurants; the bikes are just there as a substitute for a pro sports team to root for and buy their merch. They sold outmoded engineered products as authentic so successfully that the HD cult rejects innovation in what is essentially a technology product. To be fair I am impressed so far with the success of the newest HD products and hope that the younger generation of HD buyers are finally demanding bikes that incorporate up to date design & engineering.
I like bikes, all bikes! I'm also really new to motorcycles, been around them all my life but only started riding within the last couple years. Channels like this got me into them in my 30's, so thanks for that! I'm here because Shadetree Surgeon recommended you. Thanks for inspiring me and making awesome videos! Edit: Sportster prices should start at about 6k and max out around 12k for a top of the line model.
i just wanna know more about how to work on whatever i am riding. Whats the easiest to work on that is also affordable. A $500 1200 cc bike is no good if i can;t keep it going ...same thing if it's $5000. having a bunch of shitty bikes is just as expensive as one or two harleys, or hondas
I've own 4 Harleys and 5 Hondas and one Triumph. All were assembled in America by American workers except the Trumpet. Most dependable that never needed anything were the Hondas. Most expensive to work on were the Harleys. The Trumpet was cool but never could get it to run right. Current ride is 2002 Honda Vlx 600, and it's a blast to ride.
Parts. Rear caliper for an 09 Softail Heritage. Taken to the shop in January of this year. The OEM part will not be released until June 4. You expect a company that charges so much for maintenance and so much for parts that would at least deliver within half a year.
Too bad you feel the need to hate on them. Now I feel like if I saw you somewhere I would not want to try and start a conversation because I would be feeling like you may think I'm less of a person because I ride what I like. To each his own. I've never felt the need to trash a Triumph or a Triumph owner. People can ride whatever they want, I'm just glad they're riding.
Harley Davidson is currently losing long time Independent dealers as Harley’s focus is moving to Corporate owned dealers. Rocky Mountain in Colorado is closing, Black Hills in SD is closing,Daytona Harley also and others. That personal independent touch regarding service is going to crap. Overpriced and indifferent, welcome to the New Harley. Love the bikes, hate their pricing and hate HDMC. Compare the Nightster to the Honda Rebel 1100. Comparable till you get to pricing. Going to pay a least $5K more for the Harley.
I have 2011 Bonneville T100, and have been looking for a more foot forward ride, my leg is giving me trouble after about 30 minutes, I was thinking about the Street Bob and saw that the MSRP is like $15400 and the softail standard is like $14000. So I go to my local harley place that was advertising end of the year sale. They had about 15 Street Bobs on the floor. Then came the numbers - it was going to be almost $21k out the door! I asked about a used 1200, this thing was rough - dented fender and scratched tank 2016 model they still wanted $11,000 for it. In my opinion the 1200 sporty should be about $11,000 and the 883 $8499. But for that money i'd rather buy a Speedmaster 1200 for $13,500.
Let me comment before I view this content an see how close I came? I've owned many motorcycles an brands, an Harley (Which I currently own) is in 3rd place. First an second choice is hard choice between my Goldwing an Yamaha Venture Royale. I can tell you how popular Honda was in 70s-80s when I picked up Honda deliveries from Seattle docks from Japan. Warehouse building for Japanese motorcycles is so long you can't see end of building. When they loaded my truck with Honda line products from 90% building storage. Yamaha, Suzuki, kawa, all had rest houses in 10% of building! My Harley seems too want worked on much more than any other bike I've owned. New model Harley don't have stock accessories my 86' Yamaha or Honda. My 88 Goldwind has everything my Yamaha had plus "reverse" gear that modern Harleys still don't have. Harleys are so crude they don't even come with center stands, an so crude center stands not even available on almost all models! Now, let's talk, "costs"! Harleys are incredibly expensive, Harley thinks their parts are made of gold while Taiwan chrome isn't holding up?
Harley sells life style. Be in our club because all the rest a less than, don't you want to be one of us? Well yes and no. I appreciate that Moonshine Harley Davidson in Nashville throws great parties. I attend them on my Vulcan Classic all the time. Free beer food and a band is a great deal😁. They look hard and long at her and no body has ever commented so I think I am pulling it off. I would love an Electra Glide but I don't have 15k to spend on one even though I have looked at used ones just haven't found one yet. Plus my classic has been basically trouble free since I bought it. I don't hate Harley but I am not in love either. Peace!
Harley has always sold and banked on an image if not a lifestyle. And many if not most Harley owners have their bikes for life, even for several generations. Harley owners generally did not trade them in for the latest model. Guys lived for the day they were the owner of Dad's or Grandpa's Harley. But in the last few years, they seem to have adopted the same policies as every other company that makes a transportation vehicle. Dealerships rarely work on non-current models or engines. From the Twin Cam on back, the flagship Harley engine was in production for 15-20yrs. Harley motors and transmissions before the Twin Cam were meant to be infinitely rebuildable! If Harley does not have the factory original parts available, the aftermarket does! And usually of much higher quality! I can buy brand new, high quality parts and performance components for darn near every HD Big Twin motor, whether Flathead or OHV back to the 1930s! And most of the best (S&S, JIMS, Andrews, Crane, etc) are made in the USA! The Big 4 Japanese brands rarely run the same model bike or motor and parts for more than 5yrs. And try finding new (NOS) or aftermarket performance parts for that 10~20yr old Asian or Euro bike. It's called ''planned obsolescence''. The Yamaha V-Max is a notable exception!! Many 60s~70s~80s Japanese bike owners lost interest after a few years. They were not worth much in resale or trade-in and many sat in backyards rusting due to lack of parts, or funds to fix, until the day they got hauled off for scrap. No matter how much time/abuse/neglect a vintage Harley saw, someone wants it! Even AMF-era iron Sportsters!
A new Sportster should sell for less for sure. New out the gate the forks and shocks need to be replaced with something good, the starter gear will fail in two years or less, the breaks are more of a suggestion to slow down.
I find nice used Sportys for $3-5k all the time. News flash: you don't have to buy new. Let others pay for the new bike smell and when they get tired of it or they simp out to their wives or GFs you can swoop in and get a deal. Many old riders are aging out too, that's how I found my Dyna for $5k.
I have a 2012 ultra limited. Paid 23k new. I have put at least 16k in that bike. New engine, trans rebuild, suspension, seat, etc........ So I have 40k in that bike. I have several motorcycles. I have a 2017 Goldwing that the only thing I have done to it is scheduled maintenance and tires. Has 50k on it and will run another 100k easy. Harley isn't even close to the reliability of the Honda. I dont care about the "club." I primarily ride in Texas and the southwest where water cooling is a must.
Harley Davidson in France has become a cliché, it's boring, all they ride is Harley's. Recently retired couples who have a massive disposable income decide to get into motorcycling and throw their money into Harley Davidson. They buy the biggest Harley, matching Harley clothing and matching Harley helmets then go around like they've been riding bikes for years and looking down on the rest. These people don't even know how to service their own bikes! Ask a kid in France to name a motorcycle, they will say Harley Davidson. So for this reason I can't stand Harley Davidson.
Maybe things have changed but the dealer out here in Portland OR has said they were number one in sales but that could also just be in the western division as opposed to the whole USA. Tried to get you a Triumph for a project bike but never heard a response from my email. I never owned or will ever own a Harley only Triumphs but great video and soooooo true about the marketing and loyalty on that other brand :)
Here in Australia the Sportster S is $26,995 Australian Dollars and the Triumph Speed Twin 1200 is $21,250 Australian Dollars. I own Triumph, Victory and Harley motorcycles. Here is Australia the Sportster S should be sitting at $20,000 Australian Dollars which is on par with motorcycles from other countries.
Harleys image went from club bikers to dentists and lawyers cosplaying. They’re 50-60 year olds wearing skull and flames merch.
Like to ride, ride to lunch.
@@tetlow2 Hahaha that's hilarious but very true!
I live near a Harley dealership. Every Sunday Harley owners get together and ride. Ninety-five percent of them are guys in their late 40s and older, on a touring bike, with their fat wife on the back. The other five percent are younger guys, who have totally bought into the image that owning a Harley automatically makes you a badass, especially if the bike has ape hangers. To me, Harley is what Cadillac used to be in the '80s: the brand for your grandparents.
Says the guy that lives in his parents basement thanks for your worthless opinion.
That's generation X, in case you don't know, we don't give a fuck what you losers think, we're living our lives carefree,
They make a huge mistake every time they hire a CEO who knows nothing about motorcycles, like the current one who came from making tennis shoes!!
You know it!
3rd generation Harley Davidson Only rider/builder/fabricator here: and well….i can’t say I disagree with you!? Haha you tastefully hit the nail on the head! As most American established companies shortly after establishing outsourcing was a must. They build their brand off image/clothing & marketing any product you want (literally!) Well spoken and well said! I see more equitable brand loyalty starting to happen & I dig it! Thank You for your hard work it’s been a blast/pleasure to watch!
Billy, thanks for taking the time to watch. Most just see the thumbnail and think the video is me bashing HD when I am actually complimenting them on doing such a great job!
Im a certified Harley tech and i have to say.... there is a reason i quit that corp lol. Not only do they charge out the ass for bikes that have more problens than a teenage taylor swift fan, the amount you pay in services at the dealer that they recommend..... will cost you the amount of a sportster or more. This guy is absolutly right. The videos they push on the employees say exactly what this guys says lol.. great stuff. They do make us techs money tho and some people love giving away money.
I love your perspective!
I bought a used 2008 1200 Nightster October 2023. Had 1047 miles on it. Dude got hurt and couldn"t ride anymore. Kept it in his garage for 15 yrs. His friend would ride it around the block a few times every 2 weeks. Right before I got it he had put brand new tires, new battery, and fresh oil change at the dealer. Paid $6k for it. I love that bike
Awesome deal!
I have a new 2023 anniversary Tri-Glide. I paid $48000 out the door. I do my own work and I just did my 5000-mile inspection. I found the front axle pinch bolt was stripped out in the socket. The brake fluid had almost 4% water content. The heat deflectors didn't have the special nuts crimped, so the lower screws were doing nothing. The spark plug wires were not tie strapped to the frame under the seat area. The adjuster on the rear axle was 3/16" wider on the right side compared to the left side and the triple tree is a few degrees to the right when the front wheel is straight. The ground strap in the trunk was disconnected. So I would say that Harley's quality control is not there. My American made Hondas are much better.
Quality Control at its finest!
I'm British born and bred, I bought a Triumph Bonneville America brand new back in 2003 and still ride it most days! I also own a Harley Davidson Dyna Street Bob 2007 which is somewhat customised and is number 130/200 of the Grim Reaper limited edition paintjob. I love them both, they each draw attention at bike meets. Both are 'cruiser' bikes but have totally different characters. The Triumph is better suited to our twisty roads and lanes here in England but the Harley is my choice for the long and straight motorway rides. Great video, keep flying the Triumph flag!
Hey Weems! Have you ever thought about some people may ride Harleys because they just like the looks and sound of a Harley? I know this will amaze you, but 'most' people I think, are not into going as fast as is humanly possible. In a straight line, or around curves. Surprisingly, 'most' grow past that kind of behavior around their mid twenties, providing they haven't killed themselves, or watched a friend go off a cliff.
It's really amazing how much fun Harley's are to just cruise on. I have more fun cruising my Harley at 45 mph, than I ever did riding my Triumph Trident like a wild man, back in the day. The Triumph was faster, would go around curves a lot faster, and had a unique 'snort' that no other bike could replicate. But the looks and ' sound' of the Harley was something that just made my experience so much more enjoyable, and I didn't have to be wringing it out like a teenage moron to get it. Which may have a lot to do with why I'm 75, and still alive to ride.
Oh, and everybody doesn't walk around with all that phony crap you referred too. (the clothes, and attitude) Harley's are just fun to ride. To bad you can't just accept that, instead of trying to disect everything.
There is One thing I hate about Harley's though, and that's the ever present "arrogant" attitude of the people that work at the dealerships! From the top to the bottom, those people, for the most part, will probably be the end to HD. And they're all SO ARROGANT, they can't see it. Oh well... their loss. I've got mine!
Well said and I agree!
My current dealer doesn't seem that way but I have been scorned at others while wearing the wrong brand livery.
You said a kid it's all just an image for you guys
I'm on the north side of 70 and have owned many motorcycles. I currently have a Harley Davidson, 2 Yamaha's, and a Honda. I like all of them because they are for different purposes. All of them are reliable and reasonably easy to work on. I recently added a Trailmaster Hurricane 200x minibike to the mix. All fun, all for different uses.
Here is a description of the typical HD rider. He is a middle-aged white man dressed in what is basically a pirate costume. He has a preference for beards. He wears a rag on his head instead of using a helmet. He usually has a wallet with a chain on it. He sports a thin black leather vest with numerous patches affixed to it. He wears Doc Martin-style boots. If he wears sun glasses, they will probably be the same brand as was used in "Sons of Anarchy". All of this allows him to think he is a non-conformist rebel bad-ass even though he looks like practically every other HD rider.
Well Said!
Agreed Well Said
Ahahah!
I ride a Sportster and none of this applies to me.
Yea that’s sad, at least everyone who hates on Harley doesn’t look the same with some obscure brand black t shirt, beard, and boots… that would be wierd if they all had early British hats and tucked other peoples yay..
It doesn’t have to be a v-twin. It doesn’t have to look classic. It just has to be good. I’ve owned many Japanese bikes, a Victory, a Trimph, and now my 1st Harley-Davidson, and I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a different brand. I like all kinds.
From my experience with Harley-Davidson the only honest bike they made up until recently was the Evo Sportster. Everything else was overpriced and overhyped. This is coming from a guy who did the "upgrade" to a big twin Harley. I don't regret trying a big twin Harley because it was an experience but the only Harleys I would ever buy again would be the Evo Sportster.
Honest comment. I have a big twin but I had two Sportster evos, 92 and 11. Had no issues with the sportsters.
It's not just darley havidson, it's the owners. I've owned several and will never give up my 65 Panhead. But darley and their loyal riders refuse to grow with the times; stuck with V twin air cooled power when other engine designs prove better longevity.
Exhaust is loud and made to be inefficient making engines heat and fail. Rider comfort is not a concern as much as an appearance. EVERY darley owner runs to the after market to upgrade, change and alter their outrageously over priced bike that cannot claim American Made.
You are in my prayers
Hoka Hey
I've got a "95" pan I built up new that year, and hope to take her to the west coast again, before I leave this world.
I like my M8 softail heritage classic. I don't do gangs or wear fancy dress. I keep my self to myself, but if you're ok with me I'm fine with anyone who rides anything.
Well Said!
The way to go, don‘t follow fashion, follow your heart.
My Dad bought a KZ1100 in 1983 and still has it. It still runs pretty good and he's never been into the engine! A few carb rebuild and syncs and general maintenance.
The KZ1100’s are awesome bikes!
Im a proud owner of a 2020 Triumph Rocket 3 GT and when a Harley guys stand beside me at a red light i can assure you that once they look at my bike they dont try to race me they give me the thumb up they know they cant stand a chance, i wear a full helmet a protection jacket and boots, im not wearing regular biker gears im more on the sporty side and protection gears, but every one choose what they like to ride and wear.
I have a Harley v rod will mop that over weight pig lol
@@Wrenchhead55 the vrod with a porche motor that AMERICAN right lol
@@shadwox9808 not a Porsche motor they just had meeting with them on development watch making of the vrod the engine was developed out of the vr1000 race bike that set pole at Daytona better to research then reply just my opinion
I'd lean more towards Eric buel for that engine he was the race program guy should have back him guy is a legend
I started out with a Triumph Bonnie in 1972 and rode them for 4 years till I got my first Harley. I was a fanatical Harley guy for almost 45 years then I got sick and couldn't ride my Streetglide anymore (to big and heavy) But I was not going to stop riding so I went back to my roots and bought a Triumph T100. Well I'll tell you I ride my Bonnie every year far way more than any Harley I had owned. I forgot how much better handling and FUN to ride than my Harleys .Hopefully I have many more years riding my beautiful Triumph!
I wish you many more years!!!!
to the big and heavy????
@@mrpoizun Ya what part of that you don't you understand????
I ride a 2000 XL1200 and get snubbed by the Harley Big Twin riders at times. Always get a chuckle out of it. I also have a CB750 Honda and a BSA 650 Lightning. I also don't own any H-D apparel or skull accessories. In the past I owned a Iron Head Sportster and a Shovelhead FXE.
Harley owners...spent the first 10 yrs just trying to buy a sportser then they spend the rest of their lives trying to trade up to a couch on wheels....
You own some of the coolest machines ever made btw...
I tried to drink the cool aid. I couldn't do it. I had a beautiful 2007 Goldwing trike with a Motor Trike conversion kit. Which the Goldwing was assembled in US and the Motor trike was 100 percent made in Texas. I brought my trike to a Harley dealer and was looking at the time was the 2014 Mount Rushmore Street Glide edition. I pull into the Harley place and no one was in the shop. No one. The salesman says, metric bike huh? I say yeah, looking at a new Street Glide. He didn't get off the chair or want anything to do with me. I thought he was going to speed dial all his Harley buddies to get their torches and pitch forks to drive me out of there. I asked how much, he didn't respond. I said trade on the trike. He responded, no. I said I hope I don't slip on all the oil in the parking lot. That dealership is no longer their.
I absolutely love this video.
I hate Harley so much that I bought a Gilroy Indian LOL..
I love old Sportsters though.
First Chopper I obsessed about was a 76 Bonneville with a king and queen seat big old sissy bar.
Problem is The Branding of counterculture that Harley embraced has now become into culture.
I really have high hopes for the new TVS Norton motorcycle.
In Royal Enfield is blooming beautifully with an owner's manual that actually States how to adjust the tappets instead of just open your wallet you're paying again.
Thanks for all that info. I'm enjoying a new generation enjoying my generation of bikes.
I'm happy that you brought up the problem of demographics and HD. The fact that the average Harley rider is now in his 50's is a HUGE obstacle for the brand. The fact is, younger riders don't make the same associations with Harley that older folks do. For the older generation, they associate the brand with freedom and possibly even non-conformity. Films like Easy Rider and the coolness of outlaw culture helped Harley project this image. Over time, however, the brand has actually come to represent the OPPOSITE of those things. Quite simply, they have lost their cool. A younger rider doesn't see a guy on a $60k Road Glide, decked out in every piece of Harley emblazoned merch as cool. They see a middle aged white guy that looks like their dentist. It's pure conformity.
@@SeattleMartin 120 plus years I guess there doing something right
I feel so conflicted lol. My first bike was a Yamaha maxim 650… owned a couple viragos, a Honda CM400. Currently I own two Yamaha xs650s, a triumph America, and a 92 Harley ElectraGlide… I’ve felt every bit of snobbery dished out at me over the years. Everything I have I worked for and paid cash… but I gotta say, the Harley has been incredibly reliable, and she’s given me almost 50 mpg… I don’t ride for the image perse. I ride to get from A-B. I love my big touring bike. Weight is good. Power is nice but kinda overrated. Handling is kinda on you, but that said, I’d rather take mountain twisties on the America than the ElectraGlide… bikes are kinda like tools and none of them are Swiss Army knives. You buy what you like and what works for the job you wanna do, image or whatever aside… I wish triumph had kept their rocket III touring… but the triumph dealership near me has just as many snobbish jackasses working at it as Harley does… expected to be treated better as an owner. Anyhow, long story short, while everything you say is true, I own and love triumph and Harley and Yamaha and wouldn’t hesitate to own another Honda… I like bike. Except crotch rockets, won’t throw a leg over one, gross lol. Someday triumph might bring back a touring bike and I’d like to try one out. Till then I’m probably a pretty loyal Harley guy because that’s the tool that works for me.
Well Said!
I like all motorcycles and my favorite and the bike I currently ride is the HD roadking .If the roadking was not made by harley I would still love it
The Road King is a great platform!
I had an 2004 sporty and then a 06 dyna street bob about 14 years ago. I had nothing but trouble with my street bob. Always in the shop, first year 6 speed, are stators and charging systems every month for 3 months straight. Told Harley to come get the P.O.S. Started buying vintage triumphs and building choppers, then moved into Panheads and Shovelheads. Still have one pre unit left I’m building for. Y chick. Still love old triumphs, but I also love my pas,shovels and knuckleheads. The old Harley’s were great if you like old bikes, any old bike is a labor of love. It’s all what you’re into, but I just don’t care for newer bikes or cars. All my cars are old and I drive them as well. When they rust I repair, when they need maintenance I maintenance them. That’s still better to me then having a loan on a Chinese made piece of crap, assembled in America, that’s controlled by computers, or whereever they make the stuff now, it’s probably crap, overpriced crap. There’s a reason OEM parts still work. They are serviceable, and were better made. That’s why Harley Davidson sucks, and the fact that they got away from making cool bikes. That’s just my opinion though.
Well said!
Minus my Mongo like spelling. Honestly though man, I’d be embarrassed to own a new Harley Davidson. It’s even worse when you see these people who buy all the gear and go out and play Billy Badass…it’s kind of a joke. Again, that’s just me though.
for a guy that "doesn't like harleys" you sure blowin a lot of smoke.
Noted.
I really like the old Harleys but love all Triumph motorbikes (old and new). Keep up the great work.
Same here!
Harley is almost the worst bike you can buy for reliability and factory workmanship and quality control. Royal Enfield is the worst. I love my Yamaha. My broken Harley is against the wall in my garage never to be fixed. I keep it to remind me to never ever buy another Harley.
Well said
All I’ve ever owned are Yamahas. My biker gang buddy told me he’d never ride with me if I rode “Jap Crap”. Oh well, I really want to be seen near a Harley anyways.
There is only one reason why Harley Davidson sucks, Their prices
I could name a couple other things!
👍🏾👑
At $12k I might have thought about trading in my Bolt for a Sportser S, but the only model that I can see me riding and actually using is the 900 with a more standard rear fender for mounting bags, sissybar, and a step-up seat. Lots more work to get that done on the 1250 Sportster. The 900 only starts being appealing at like a $9k price tag. Even that is a stretch, though.
Had a Harley, it was a money pit after warranty went out. My shadow on the other hand is a dependable machine.
I like my shadow Sabre she’s a beast
Yes sir! I have a 2005 Kawasaki Vulcan Classic and it's just a great bike. I even have the title!
Here in Norway a new Sportster S goes for 29 grand. That is $ 29,000 USD. The cheapest used one is $21,600 which is a bargain.
WoW! That is crazy!
@@weemsmotorco Yes it is. You have to be really stupid to buy one. 😆
Good God totally insane
Nice Triumph in the back ground. Any info on that bike. Flat tracker ?
That is the bike we built to race 100 miles through the Mojave Dessert! We have a few videos on it. Check them out on our channel!
I think reliability, handling, and performance should determine what motorcycle is the best 👌 👍
Totally agree!
You forgot fun. One of my favorite bikes is a motorized bicycle, its front wheel drive (so you can lock the rear brake and drift/skid turns easily through intersections over 20 mph, its top speed is only 27 so you loose a little speed), it's not particularly reliable and with likely around 1 HP from a 25cc engine at 12k rpm its not exactly a rocket ship (though it does climb fairly steep hills without much issue and can play ramping dirt off-road too). It's handling is pretty top notch being front wheel drive, but it wins in the fun factor.
I've had people of all ages want to hop on and take it for a drive, anyone that's 8 to 88 (and yeah even older is fine too), I'll let them hop on and go ride around for as long as they want. I've even had pretty much a stadium of people cheer it on (it was during a college game day, so many people out in the streets, I don't know if they thought it was a show or what when I was smoking tires at the intersection for fun, but had dozens of people ask about it that day and handful of test drives). Made great fuel economy, but more importantly a lot of smiles!
Harley riders always seem pissed because they continue to make payments on a bike that spends most of its time in the shop.
Mine's paid for, but it spend a lot of time in bits in the living room
I like how you don't seem to have a problem with pigeon holding an entire group of people. If I did not know any better I swear that was being bigoted :-) I have a Harley with over 46,000 miles all I've done was change the oil, oil filter, and tires I'm pretty happy how about yourself?
I agree HD is a marketing first and bike second kind of company. The boomers lapped up the bad boy marketing imagery for years and HD rested on that. Of course keeping that image alive is pretty tough when it’s juxtaposed with who most the HD riders u see now are, which is mostly old and fat! Not knocking them…that’s most of us when we get older, but it does create a marketing problem! Have u been to Sturgis? Outside of the occasional cosplay rich guys wife and the ladies hired to work it’s like the Westminster Kennel Club.
When the entry price is 15k it’s a tough sell for younger buyers and when HD has tried to go below that there bikes look like some H.S. Kids summer project with an HD emblem slapped on. I think HD is doing the best they can but they dug themselves a pretty big hole.
Maybe the Speed Twin doesn't make too much power because if you want that much power you buy the Speed Triple RR that makes 177.6 bhp (yes, .6. It's important.) and has 125 Nm of torque. Plus it goes round bends and looks pretty whilst doing it. 😀
agree 100%- I was given an 06 ultra classic by my father-in-law. ow he is old school( motor-cop 35 yrs ). He loves his HD and it's a real honor to be given this immaculate machine he has cherished for 20 years. I've been on two wheels for two decades, and I've had several standards throughout that time, this is my first HD. The maintenance on this bike is so outrageously expensive, that I don't know where to start... the cheaply manufactured parts or the 200 p/h labor. Let's not forget having to deal with obnoxious, "I know way more than you" attitudes I have been getting from my neighborhood HD dealer. Did I mention that the labor is nearly $200.00 an hour? Still, there's a lot of history that comes with this bike, so I digress. I would never slap down 20k on a HD. Not when I could purchase 2 slightly used Japanese bikes for the same $. As for the final point, there IS a division between bikers. It's kinda funny however that with there being so many new, different kinds of riding and bikes out there in 2024, the only static I ever seem to see is between HD & everyone else. Huh, must just be a coincidence.🤔
So True!
For me personally I don’t care about brands of any kind.I currently own & ride a Honda.so I get plenty of hate from Harley purest.I like bike as shadetree says.hey we’re all on 2 wheels till glory. Be all inclusive not exclusive.
I'm 47 so that matches the stereo type, but I also have a Ducati, a yamaha, a Kawasaki, ktm , suzuki , Honda. Maybe I'm not typical.
Wait......there's motorcycles that aren't Harley's? Huh learn something new everyday 😉.
No there isn't. Lol!
Haha
Great video. I love my Harley but I'm also a big fan of Triumph. A Sportster should sell at no more than $12K. Greetings from Columbus, Ohio.
Right on!
The new water cooled Sportster should be $11K max. Honda has the the new 1100cc Rebel they are selling for $9.5K. If history is any indication the Honda will be vastly superior in just about every way and smoke the Harley performance wise. Being old myself, I agree there are guys in my age group who if they couldn't have a Harley they just wouldn't ride. Don't see that attitude a lot among the younger crowd, which is who you would think the Sportster is made to appeal too. So Harley might have a tough sell if their new Sportster has a $6K premium over a Honda Rebel. Actually when I talk to young guys they universally say Harleys are an old mans bike and a lot add that it's a douchebags bike, that last might mean that Harley's marketing really isn't all that good. Finally I find the US's present economic situation, high inflation during a recession to be eerily similar to the economy of the late 70's early 80's when Harley almost went belly up.
I currently have an 05 roadking but the best bike I've had was a 03 Honda Sabre. It was heavy with the drive shaft but I never had mechanical/electrical issues with before trading in for a 13 street bob, yes I was a 42 year old dyna-bro 😆
Good bikes mine is an 2007 Sabre
I am a true Triumph believer! Absolutely agree Triumph America could REALLY step up their game taking care of people and giving back.
Same!!! Harley Davidson is terrible as a company. Bought my Dyna used. I wont spend another penny at a Harley stealer-ship.
They are over priced!
i agree with #1. I'm so over Harley riders and even people who don't ride think that HD is the pinnacle and all riders should aspire to ride a HD. I agree the company does great things for the community but the attitudes of most HD riders is they are weekend Outlaws while sitting in the Tim Hortons parking lot. I stress to people I work with that I'm NOT a biker, I'm a guy who rides a bike (I have 2 honda and a Yamaha).
All these comments are incredibly bizarre. First off I've never been to a Tim Hortons and secondly I have no problem with people riding Hondas or Yamahas or Suzukis or triumphs or whatever. But there seems to be a whole band of you out there who hate Harley riders. I think it's you that have the problem.
Triumph does sponsor the "Distinguished Gentleman's" ride that goes towards Male cancer research and treatment.
I was literally having the Triumph-Harley horsepower discussion with some other Triumph riders yesterday. The Nightster is making more hp than the Triumph 1200 "High Torque" twin, and almost as much as the 1200 "High Power" version in the Speed Twin. By comparison, my 2019 Street Scrambler 900 should be making in the 80-90 hp range, and the 1200 should be well over 100 hp. The worst part is there are no performance upgrade parts that would get you close to the hp figures H-D is getting from the Rev-Max motors. On the plus side for Triumph, the Sportster S and Nightster seem to be way less practical than any of the modern classic line-up, and the Triumphs are much more affordable.
You got that right!
I’m a Ducati rider, I have a pikes peak multistrada. I saw a video by Maximorides on YT and it sparked my interest in Harley Davidson. Generally speaking I looked negatively at HD because for 30k, Ducati is giving me 170+ HP and 100ftlbs torque, forged wheels, brembo m50 or better brakes, ohlins electronic suspension etc.. Harley is just giving me a few more cubic inches and different color schemes. But out of curiosity I went to my local dealer to test ride the road glide ST. It was heavy and a bit of a boat at first. But when you get it rolling it was surprisingly easy to handle. On the road it turned in pretty well for a 1000+ pound total mass (rider + bike), the brakes worked very well keeping in mind the size and weight. The power of the 117 was surprisingly good for the size of the bike as well. It pulled good and got me up to 75 mph from 10mph in no time, I was in third gear. At speed 60-70 mph it was easy enough to flick side to side to see how well it could avoid a road hazard at speed. The faring diverted wind around me nicely and only could feel air flow on the top of my helmet, I’m 6’1”. I know my current bike is superior performance wise, but the Harley for being 350lbs ish heavier did pretty well. Looking over the bike nothing seemed “low quality”. Some things could have been improved but it was a nice motorcycle. Idk if it’s 30k nice but I’ll admit that I’ve been wrong about these motorcycles. The customer base and business practices have kinda put me off from HD generally speaking on top of my perception of the old design which I now see wasn’t completely accurate. I’m uncertain about HD for now. But their bikes are pretty good for what they are (atleast the one I test rode). I wish for 30k, they offered the 131, ohlins, better breaks and standardized safety features.
Price point has always been tough for me also.
Geezus, speak English!
I ride a mint all original 1974 XLH, love it.
Right on!
Having tasted many type fruits in my life. Never thought to be loyal to one specific type. I like them all and eat them whenever I feel like having either. If the cost of one increases over the others without nutritional benefits, i won’t eat too much of it or simply stop buying it because I can’t afford it. End of the day, it serves as fuel to my body or soul.
Great point of view!!!!
I don't fit any box, never have. Up till a year ago I owned & rode 78 Bonny, 98 Zuki Gixer and 98 Harley FXSG. I passed on the Gix to a new rider who could handle the performance the older gal still made and keep it up reliable & looking almost new. Fixing to turn 74. I would rather ride somethig that is streetable than a bike that doesn't run. Not a brand fanatic. Any bike that runs well suits me just fine.
Great view!
Overpriced, ridiculous markups, ridiculous interest rates, and overheating engines... :-(
All correct!
@@weemsmotorco add in a parts back up of over 17 weeks
In short, crap!
We will see if this new 121 solves many of HD's engine problems... if not, they are in trouble.
I'd take a Honda rebel over any harely
Hahahaha
Idk if I would go that far...pretty bland bike but an Indian scout??? Triumph Bonnie or hell even an Engfield interceptor now where talking Rebel is mech sound....but so so 😴
You would because that is the only bike you're legs reach the ground trol
You're thinking about it WAAAAYYYYY to much. I buy mine because: 1. I like them. 2. They are good. 3. They last. 4. They hold their value. I learned a long time ago I can think myself into parallysis or I can just get it done. The bottom line is I will see you there, same as you on whatever the hell you choose to ride.
Well said!
I'm going to be 100% honest here. I love Harley-Davidson motorcycles. I love the Harley-Davidson culture. The people. I've owned and ridden Hondas. Kawasakis. Yamahas. Harleys. Suzukis. Triumphs. I've loved every motorcycle I've ridden. Lately, the direction Harley-Davidson has been taking as a company has soured me. I say this as a person who believed in and worked at Harley-Davidson dealerships for 17 years. I'll always love and bleed for the Bar & Shield, but I can't work at dealerships anymore. I may be an outlier. I'm an old school, blue collar guy. I don't want the sale. I want your business. I'll give a little on the short side to gain in the long game. I'll work with a long-term customer experiencing a hardship because I actually care. The customer culture is beautiful. The corporate culture has become toxic to me. I'm not a slave to metrics. It's not about K.P.I. to me. I don't care about maximizing profits and getting rich. I care about paying my bills and gaining the trust of my customers. I think Harley-Davidson may have lost sight of that. Build the relationship with the customers. They'll spend the money because they care. Be beholden to your customers, not your shareholders.
And for the record.....if I could find a Triumph for a reasonable price in Northern New England.....I'd buy it in a second. And as far as a motorcycle being American-made.....THERE ISN'T A SINGLE MOTORCYCLE MADE IN A SINGLE COUNTRY.
Hey Joe, send us a stimulus check
You should only care about the bike you're riding... you don't want to buy a Harley then don't...I ride a Harley ... and I love it
We’re all about doing what we love!
Agreed….unfortunate HD bikes are generally overpriced….however, the used market is booming, as someone back in the market for buying …there are a ton of these bikes out there for sale right now to choose from, prices are dropping….
Harleys price is ridiculous, a joke.
Used bikes is where it’s at!!!
I agree!
I own a 2022 speed twin and it’s hands down still a better bike than the Harley.
You got that right!!!
And it looks like a real bike too 😊😊
My son has a 2016 Rocket 3 Roadster that has developed that apparent frequent problem, the valve cover gasket leaking. The closest place he can find that can work on it is 3 hours away, in Columbus, Ohio.
Yeah I wish Triumph had as many dealerships as HD too!
VALVE COVER??... lol
That is a 15 minute job at best! Just order the part from Triumph direct, and they will probably suggest a YT link to show you how!
@@black8art thanks will give that a try, but we are not mechanics.
@@black8art 15 minutes??? no way its a lot more than that (i've done it) it takes a while just getting to where you remove the cover. A rat nest of wires with the plenum air box under the tank
I'm on my 4th gasket i empathize this is caused by not being torqued down 1st pass then 2nd pass correctly. its about 250.00 dollar job at my local dealership
I love the look of the cruisers Harley makes. I love the sound as they rev up. However, I'm not a fan of how they sound at idle. I prefer shaft drive to belt drive. I can't stand how bad Harley gouges people when they are cutting quality with cheap Chinese electronics. If you saved 3 grand putting lower quality electronics in my bike then shouldn't My bike be at least 2 grand cheaper? My Honda Shadow costed me a mere 7 grand with less than 300 miles on it from a dealer. The older Harley sitting next to it with 10k miles on it was selling for 13,000 I can respect it. It just isn't for me. Whatever you ride, keep the shiny side up and stay safe out there.
All great points!
All companies use Chinese parts. Get smart.
LOL classic! never seen so much love describing something that sucks! You're too funny Jared!
Sportster should be around $8,900 for an 883. No more than $12,500 for a 1200. Harley is dissolutionally overpriced. I paid $12,000ish for my Ultra Classic because I couldn't justify spending $32,000+ for a new one.
My youngest is just getting into bikes. I am from London , have ridden pretty much everything, owned a few. I have a old brit bike as a daily driver, I told the boy to buy a Harley. Why? here in japan they are cheap due to the market being flooded. However he wont lose money on a harley. He will buy it for 200 000 yen ride it and sell it for 200 or more. Me I crashed and lost money on pretty much all me bikes except me Enfield !
What year is your Enfield?
You‘ll lose money on every single bike, any, always, every time, even holding it for 40years. You lose less if you buy a cheaper bike and more if you buy a more expensive bike. It‘s simple and no Marketing and mouth-to-mouth false propaganda will ever change that. Yes, there are rare occasions where this is working outside of that, but no, it‘s a combination of finding a dumb buyer for a greedy sale, unfair business. And again, that can be done with many brands and models.
Weems For a triumph guy I really like how you put that Harley together your riding. Very cool bike.
Thanks! 👍
@@weemsmotorco Triumph guy here as well...owner of a 2014 'white stripe' Rocket III Roadster bought it new in 2015 demo model with 70 miles on it (45k trouble free miles)and it has been awesome no issues at all except the valve cover gasket but all in all awesome motorcycle. I agree with you Triumph- their marketing and events are just about non-existent they could learn much from H-D in that regard. But love my Rocket torque is insane...like riding a bull
All of Harley-Davidson sponsoring bike shows and giving expensive motorcycles away to Rich movie stars doesn't mean shit when they rip off their customers left right and Center. Their predatory sales practices and all of their other Shady dealings totally black in the image I have of them. When people wish AMF was back in charge of Harley Davidson you know things are bad. Everything Harley has done for 20 plus years has been a gross mistake and it shows. If it wasn't for the ride to drink drink to ride crowd Harley-Davidson would be a memory. Now I have a Sportster a 99 with 370,000 MI. It has been my most reliable bike more reliable than my wildest dreams. The company could you so much better if they turn their business practices around and made customer service number one but customer service in this country is a fading memory like Sears. If Harley-Davidson's motto was satisfaction guaranteed or your money back their bikes would be 100% reliable right off the line. And they think a sneaker guy is going to help them fat chance haha.
ive owned 3 harleys, but ive turned to triumph, better build,cheaper,lighter
also faster and more reliable
HD mastered "free advertising"....how many other companies have people getting tattoos and painting their logo on garages and trailers and a host of other things at zero cost to the company. They are the kings of advertising and brand recognition.
absolutely!
Maybe they tie with the band kiss lol
how much should a Harley cost? They really outta give a rider their first one after a 60 year track record of failure. After that first one the rider might actually pay the crazy $20-30-40,000. but they owe us a free first bike after raising the import tax on their competition back in the 80's
? What are you talking about?
Like every manufacturer doing deals with the devil
Feels like it!
8 to 10 thousand for a sportster is fair. Their markups on cheaped out parts are retardedly unfair.
Well Said!
The new 1200rr speed triple...amazing looking and fast...to high priced tho...want an old big daytona 955i again...the reason you always see harleys in the shop is customization not repair to be honest...
I'd say a sportster in the state of CA should cost not a dollar more than 10k. I myself will never buy a NEW Harley due to the bs price tag. "4 valves per cylinder" "oil cooler" has a "cvo" badge that'll be 50,000 dollars please. What a JOKE.
The worst thing about HD is how they trade on the notion of tradition at the expense of their competitiveness in the overall motorcycle market. They have become a lifestyle brand that sells t-shirts and baseball caps and dealership experiences with restaurants; the bikes are just there as a substitute for a pro sports team to root for and buy their merch. They sold outmoded engineered products as authentic so successfully that the HD cult rejects innovation in what is essentially a technology product.
To be fair I am impressed so far with the success of the newest HD products and hope that the younger generation of HD buyers are finally demanding bikes that incorporate up to date design & engineering.
Well Said!!!!
I like bikes, all bikes! I'm also really new to motorcycles, been around them all my life but only started riding within the last couple years. Channels like this got me into them in my 30's, so thanks for that! I'm here because Shadetree Surgeon recommended you. Thanks for inspiring me and making awesome videos!
Edit: Sportster prices should start at about 6k and max out around 12k for a top of the line model.
Welcome aboard!
Sent over by Shadetree
Welcome! I hope you enjoy it!
i just wanna know more about how to work on whatever i am riding. Whats the easiest to work on that is also affordable. A $500 1200 cc bike is no good if i can;t keep it going ...same thing if it's $5000. having a bunch of shitty bikes is just as expensive as one or two harleys, or hondas
I've own 4 Harleys and 5 Hondas and one Triumph. All were assembled in America by American workers except the Trumpet. Most dependable that never needed anything were the Hondas. Most expensive to work on were the Harleys. The Trumpet was cool but never could get it to run right. Current ride is 2002 Honda Vlx 600, and it's a blast to ride.
Parts.
Rear caliper for an 09 Softail Heritage. Taken to the shop in January of this year. The OEM part will not be released until June 4.
You expect a company that charges so much for maintenance and so much for parts that would at least deliver within half a year.
True!!!
Too bad you feel the need to hate on them. Now I feel like if I saw you somewhere I would not want to try and start a conversation because I would be feeling like you may think I'm less of a person because I ride what I like. To each his own. I've never felt the need to trash a Triumph or a Triumph owner. People can ride whatever they want, I'm just glad they're riding.
Rod, sorry if you felt I was bashing Harley. All 5 reasons were that they are better than Triumph and I am jealous!
I own a Triumph T120 gold line edition... ❤️it!!! 13k brand knew. Spend the same for Sportster S.
Good choice!
Motorcycles always have been marketed products. Big companies with bigger campaigns.
You got that right!
Harley Davidson is currently losing long time Independent dealers as Harley’s focus is moving to Corporate owned dealers. Rocky Mountain in Colorado is closing, Black Hills in SD is closing,Daytona Harley also and others. That personal independent touch regarding service is going to crap. Overpriced and indifferent, welcome to the New Harley. Love the bikes, hate their pricing and hate HDMC. Compare the Nightster to the Honda Rebel 1100. Comparable till you get to pricing. Going to pay a least $5K more for the Harley.
I have 2011 Bonneville T100, and have been looking for a more foot forward ride, my leg is giving me trouble after about 30 minutes, I was thinking about the Street Bob and saw that the MSRP is like $15400 and the softail standard is like $14000. So I go to my local harley place that was advertising end of the year sale. They had about 15 Street Bobs on the floor. Then came the numbers - it was going to be almost $21k out the door! I asked about a used 1200, this thing was rough - dented fender and scratched tank 2016 model they still wanted $11,000 for it. In my opinion the 1200 sporty should be about $11,000 and the 883 $8499. But for that money i'd rather buy a Speedmaster 1200 for $13,500.
Let me comment before I view this content an see how close I came? I've owned many motorcycles an brands, an Harley (Which I currently own) is in 3rd place. First an second choice is hard choice between my Goldwing an Yamaha Venture Royale. I can tell you how popular Honda was in 70s-80s when I picked up Honda deliveries from Seattle docks from Japan. Warehouse building for Japanese motorcycles is so long you can't see end of building. When they loaded my truck with Honda line products from 90% building storage. Yamaha, Suzuki, kawa, all had rest houses in 10% of building! My Harley seems too want worked on much more than any other bike I've owned. New model Harley don't have stock accessories my 86' Yamaha or Honda. My 88 Goldwind has everything my Yamaha had plus "reverse" gear that modern Harleys still don't have. Harleys are so crude they don't even come with center stands, an so crude center stands not even available on almost all models! Now, let's talk, "costs"! Harleys are incredibly expensive, Harley thinks their parts are made of gold while Taiwan chrome isn't holding up?
Harley sells life style. Be in our club because all the rest a less than, don't you want to be one of us? Well yes and no. I appreciate that Moonshine Harley Davidson in Nashville throws great parties. I attend them on my Vulcan Classic all the time. Free beer food and a band is a great deal😁. They look hard and long at her and no body has ever commented so I think I am pulling it off. I would love an Electra Glide but I don't have 15k to spend on one even though I have looked at used ones just haven't found one yet. Plus my classic has been basically trouble free since I bought it. I don't hate Harley but I am not in love either. Peace!
Harley has always sold and banked on an image if not a lifestyle. And many if not most Harley owners have their bikes for life, even for several generations. Harley owners generally did not trade them in for the latest model. Guys lived for the day they were the owner of Dad's or Grandpa's Harley.
But in the last few years, they seem to have adopted the same policies as every other company that makes a transportation vehicle. Dealerships rarely work on non-current models or engines. From the Twin Cam on back, the flagship Harley engine was in production for 15-20yrs. Harley motors and transmissions before the Twin Cam were meant to be infinitely rebuildable! If Harley does not have the factory original parts available, the aftermarket does! And usually of much higher quality! I can buy brand new, high quality parts and performance components for darn near every HD Big Twin motor, whether Flathead or OHV back to the 1930s! And most of the best (S&S, JIMS, Andrews, Crane, etc) are made in the USA!
The Big 4 Japanese brands rarely run the same model bike or motor and parts for more than 5yrs. And try finding new (NOS) or aftermarket performance parts for that 10~20yr old Asian or Euro bike. It's called ''planned obsolescence''. The Yamaha V-Max is a notable exception!! Many 60s~70s~80s Japanese bike owners lost interest after a few years. They were not worth much in resale or trade-in and many sat in backyards rusting due to lack of parts, or funds to fix, until the day they got hauled off for scrap.
No matter how much time/abuse/neglect a vintage Harley saw, someone wants it! Even AMF-era iron Sportsters!
I get paid to fix Harleys and ride home on my Indian. 😁
A new Sportster should sell for less for sure. New out the gate the forks and shocks need to be replaced with something good, the starter gear will fail in two years or less, the breaks are more of a suggestion to slow down.
My 2001 sportster has run strong with very few issues original starter, clutch ignition, belt.
Harley Davidson is way too expensive .
We agree!
I've got 3 Harleys in the past 2 years at a combined cost of $8k...2 of em run
Sportser should be no more than 10 grand !!!!....i know it might cost 5k to make !!??
I fully agree
I find nice used Sportys for $3-5k all the time. News flash: you don't have to buy new. Let others pay for the new bike smell and when they get tired of it or they simp out to their wives or GFs you can swoop in and get a deal. Many old riders are aging out too, that's how I found my Dyna for $5k.
I have a 2012 ultra limited. Paid 23k new. I have put at least 16k in that bike. New engine, trans rebuild, suspension, seat, etc........ So I have 40k in that bike. I have several motorcycles. I have a 2017 Goldwing that the only thing I have done to it is scheduled maintenance and tires. Has 50k on it and will run another 100k easy. Harley isn't even close to the reliability of the Honda. I dont care about the "club." I primarily ride in Texas and the southwest where water cooling is a must.
All so true!
I believe that some guys have even the underwear with a HD logo. Lol
LoL Probably!
The look like part of a cult
Great video Jared!!!
Harley Davidson in France has become a cliché, it's boring, all they ride is Harley's. Recently retired couples who have a massive disposable income decide to get into motorcycling and throw their money into Harley Davidson. They buy the biggest Harley, matching Harley clothing and matching Harley helmets then go around like they've been riding bikes for years and looking down on the rest. These people don't even know how to service their own bikes! Ask a kid in France to name a motorcycle, they will say Harley Davidson. So for this reason I can't stand Harley Davidson.
Same here in the States!
Maybe things have changed but the dealer out here in Portland OR has said they were number one in sales but that could also just be in the western division as opposed to the whole USA. Tried to get you a Triumph for a project bike but never heard a response from my email. I never owned or will ever own a Harley only Triumphs but great video and soooooo true about the marketing and loyalty on that other brand :)
He speaks the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. HELL YEAH BROTHER!!!!
Here in Australia the Sportster S is $26,995 Australian Dollars and the Triumph Speed Twin 1200 is $21,250 Australian Dollars. I own Triumph, Victory and Harley motorcycles. Here is Australia the Sportster S should be sitting at $20,000 Australian Dollars which is on par with motorcycles from other countries.
Harley didn't donate to forgotten angels, Burt did. As far as I know nothing came from the motor co.
You are correct!
I love all my Harldy Davidson bikes but the company sure makes it easy for you to hate.