You're most people of a certain political or social economical mindset think exactly that that you should not say accompanies but only when it's companies that have a certain mindset themselves if they don't like when it comes time to be free market and let companies die yet they may be fit the product or the company philosophy fits the political philosophy than all of a sudden it's do subsidies like either we going to be fair or we're not going to be fair.
Agree. I think Harley should start changing their name to "Harley -Euro -Davidson". When you stop making the tried & thru Road King standard, something stinks.
@@maddog7999Polaris ditched victory for Indian. Plus Indian is killing it and Isn't going anywhere. My Scout Rogue is a great bike and I've had zero issues and a ton of fun so far.
@jamesstafford62 you guys and your woke business. I'm glad I'm one of the people that don't care what a company does as long as it makes a good bike I'm going to enjoy it.
@@jamesstafford62 you seem very concerned about a people being “woke” and having a diverse community. If you take the time to understand how that affects people and their choice. You would then know you, yourself are the exact person they are trying to replace. Owning and riding any style of motorcycle is not just for grumpy white dudes.
Howdy, I’ve been riding for about 68 years of my life. Just saying all that cause I’ve seen the ups and downs of the Harley show. But I’ve stayed with them till about 4 years now. Not interested in anything Harley manufacturers to this day. I’m old school and have an addiction for most of the older models cause I can fix them. Today, one needs a degree the fantasy world to fix what’s is broke on the new design stuff. Still love riding as my favorite thing in life. Sure I’m at the age they say I should be on a walker instead of my Harleys or my old 1952 Indian. I can still walk and chew gum and I intend to ride till I can’t see. I’m an excellent rider been through most of the riding programs through my many years. Even did a law enforcement motorcycle trading class. That was great dropping their special designed motorcycles, and I passed the training. Bikes are my first love, they saved my life when I returned from that hell hole called Vietnam in the late 60s. This is why I’m still on the bike with bugs on my teeth and the sun in my face. See ya down the road of life…plus age is just a number. I think I’m still 40 years old, my birth certificate says different.😎
Maybe, and I know it sounds crazy, but hear me out, maybe they are trying to sink HD in the long run, and drive the company out of business. Given who the leadership is, and the history and legacy of HD, and the culture we are living in today, I don't think it sounds totally crazy. Anyone else?
Who are "They" that are trying to run HD out of business, the stockholders? People buy stock to make money, nobody I know likes to lose it. I believe HD is catering to a customer base that adheres to a nostalgic sensibility and mentality. Most HD riders today are dentists playing dress-up, trying to be tough guys in their Sons of Anarchy jackets. HD refuses to modernize, killed Buell and V-Rod, not deserves to go the way of the horse-drawn covered wagon.
I completely agree. A failed shoe salesman ceo? Think Al Bundy. Jockem is a bad joke turning an American icon woke. If the us government gets involved it's OVER. Well, as it stands, the MoCo has already shot itself in the foot while it's in their mouth.
News alert to everyone!!!!!! You can buy a practically new slightly used HD for THOUSANDS less from a reputable dealer verses a HD dealership. For the life of me I cannot understand why people are going to the HD stealerships and being way upside down walking out the door.
I started on a new Sportster & it was a POS. In the shop 16 times the 1st 6 months. I wrote a letter to the President of Harley & while my bike was in the shop. They called me & said, go pick out any new Harley that I wanted! I grabbed a Road King & they took the price & financing of the Sportster & transferred it to the King! HD takes care of it's customers! Just as I was about to give up. I've since lost it & moved to Colorado Springs & currently looking at a Vulcan for $2k that's decked out..
No for real.. exactly! And not long ago I found a video of a guy explain that Harley doesn’t have to make quality products because consumers have been so indoctrinated to follow the brand they will never lose their fan base. Harley literally knows they suck.. but they look cool so “they’re the best.”
Royal Enfield bikes are sold before they are unboxed at the dealership. Triumphs are selling almost as well, certain models of Honda they can't meet demand. Harley dug their grave, all that is left is the flowers. I will never own a Harley again, just not worth it.
@Group_Anonymous no argument there because HD is a brand and will always have their loyal followers. The fact remains that they just keep churning out the same product over and over, raise the price with nothing really new to offer and then about once a decade when they have to, will make major changes. Sometimes good, sometimes bad and if bad, they apologize and eventually make it right. They've been around long enough to know they shouldn't rush new products and have the ability to lead innovation but choose not to because money.
In terms of entry-level classic style bikes, Royal Enfield is also a force to be reckoned with. They make gorgeous classic style bikes at approachable power and price levels, without the "Harley culture" that turns a fair amount of young people away from the brand. I was able to get a fantastic 650cc/47HP cruiser for 7.3k MSRP that came with a simple but effective GPS navigation pod and a fancy paint scheme. HD offers nothing close to that value!
@tedunguent156 Yes, HD dealers are everywhere, but the RE 650 twins are also very easy to work on yourself with some basic mechanics tools and a little patience, given the amount of official RE and third party repair knowledge that is out there for free. If one is willing to work on their own bike, then the lack of dealer support can at most be mitigated, IMO. But not entirely, as the dealers that are around for RE can charge a lot more than they should, given the lack of competition for the time being. Still, Harley needs to have some kind of competitive option for an entry-level classic-style cruiser, ideally a 450-650cc bike for around 7k or so. If they actually had one that was reliable, I probably would have bought it over my RE!
@@AwesomeAliza It would seem obvious that Harley does not want to sell $7K bikes with a $3k markup. They want to sell $30K - $40K bikes with a $15K - $20K markup.
HD dealers are everywhere. Good luck finding a corporate crystal palace that'll service a bike more than 5 years old, let alone getting it serviced without parking it in the waiting lot for 2 weeks. And are the few mom n pop shops even able to service a rev max?
Excellent video, speaking as a UK chopper rider I love your thoughts of mounting the new engines in old style Harleys but I think the frames are not up to it. HD’s have always looked cool but the new models look plastic and then of course the home mechanic can’t touch them. Gimme “Old Skool” every time.
I completely agree with one of your statements. I bought a 23 Honda Rebel 1100. Looked at a few HD's, and instantly thought, why would I spend twice the money for half the features. Love the look and sound of HD's, but too much money for what you get. Especially if it's your first bike. Even if I end up buying a HD cause I need something bigger for a passenger, still not gonna get rid of my REBEL. TOO MUCH FUN TO RIDE!
Bought a new bike two years ago. Looked at HD, $8000 more than the bike I ended up getting. That ain't chump change, that's a whole second bike. Then, the used market is flooded with HD's. They're not holding their price, as most used bikes don't. The main thing you get with a Harley other brands don't have is the community. Is that worth the price? Your decision. I picked the two bike choice.
Harley-Davidson lost me a long, long time ago! When I decided to purchase my finishing motorcycle I purchased a new Moto Guzzi V100 Mandello S because it had some great features and I don’t have any buyers remorse after 7,500 miles!
@@mr.t9976 I've been on 2 wheels since 1965, so I feel qualified to say it's a high-quality motorcycle that's a joy to ride! The Ohlins electronic suspension is worth the extra expense IMHO!
You're right on both accounts. Without the traditional HD look it's just another metric bike. Without an entry bike HD is closing off new riders from joining the brand. 😢
I had the Rebel 1100 - Great bike, light nimble and a sports bike in disguise. But not a HD48 in soul. Was getting ready for a Road king or a Heritage, but HD issues pushed me into a great R18 at an even better price and I am not a HD clone, but part of the quality club.
I test rode a Rebel 1100 and a BMW R18. The Rebel was fantastic with light weight and that African Twin motor. The looks were meh. The R18 looks rather good, but I could barely fit the tip of my toe under the left cylinder so I could change gears. After a lot of trial and error, I ended up on a H-D Dyna Street Bob - the older twin shock model. It is about as Harley as Harley gets.
The average Harley rider is over 50 years old. New riders aren't coming. The Sportster and Nightster S aren't selling because riders over 50 don't want them. Other manufacturers do the Nightster thing better for far less. The beginner Harley is a used Harley. New Harley's should be luxury bikes aimed at wealthy riders in their 50's. Focus on that.
I'm closing in on 70, my "new Harley is a 2005", my favorite is a 42 flathead, a bit newer than my 37 I sold back in the early eighties. No one can steal it, hardly anyone knows how to ride a "hand shift" with a rocker clutch pedal.
Thank you for this video. I took my MSF course and got my motorcycle endorsement on a HD, but they're too expensive, slow and heavy; the Softail is about 200lbs heavier than a comparable Honda Steed, less reliable and today, a 30 year-old Softail costs four times what a Steed would've cost new. I might hurt some HD rider's feelings, but facts are facts. Sure, nostalgia and reputation have a place, but HDs reputation hasn't been stable.
I had a 2022 Nightster with rev max 975 engine rode more like a metric bike I owned, rode it for a year. Traded it in for a 2023 Low rider S. Nightster just did not look or feel like a Harley, I tried to like the bike the performance it has was great but again like a metric bike felted more like the Yamaha I owned rather than a Harley. I had to take it in 4 different times for electrical issues, dealer fixed them under warranty but the issue was having to take it in. I really enjoy the Low Rider S I would say best bike I owned.
One of the reasons I dislike H-D is because of the Government involvement in the 80's, the consumer should choose winners and losers NOT the Government. Additionally, Trump will put tariffs on all goods manufactured outside the U.S. including H-d.
Indeed. The buyers, not the makers, will be saddled with paying MORE to avoid HD's low end bikes or anything else. You want an inline 4/V-4/parallel twin? Tariffs will make you pay more for those too. American makers, produce the products we want to buy or get out of the way.
Yeah... but bring Willy G back. He was the last CEO that did understand the market and how to build a motorcycle. Even today's aftermarket companies sell better looking Harley engines then Harley Davidson. If it ain't looks like a Harley or sounds like a Harley, it probably isn't a Harley, whatever is says on the fuel tank.
From what I've seen in the UK only rich people ride Hogs. It's a shame, they are missing out in not making an affordable option here. A Harley not made in the US wouldn't affect purchasing one in the UK I wouldn't have thought as long as the build quality was up to scratch and it looked like a proper old school Harley. People here love the brand. I'm not a crusier rider, however I do get why folk love Harley and I'd hate to see them fail or die out due to no new riders.
Do you mean keep it around for ANOTHER 35 years? LOL The Big Twin bikes got the Twin Cam in 1998. Why didn't the Sportster get a new engine and a 6 speed transmission long ago? Maybe they would have sold a LOT more of them.
Thing is, they don't care. Right now they care about the brand and making those BROTHER'S happy with their new CVO paint that cost's 55k. As long as they have a clibbins mode so they don't have to layerdown, the crowd they are catering to will be happy. I loved the allure of having a harley but the prices are insane for what you get, I only just started riding and am looking at my 2nd bike as a cruiser, I will be getting a 2025 rebel 1100 or an Indian chief I have no interest in Harley Davidson now because of A: how the majority of their riders are and B: the price.
My husband and I discuss this all the time. Harley is hurting themselves by not making bikes for entry riders. Usually, once you're in with Harley, you stay with them. In our option's they are hurting themselves with the lifelong riders with the price points on the bikes now. The lifers are getting older, and it doesn't make sense for those in their 60's and 70's to go into debt for 30-40 thousand. They are losing at both ends, beginners and lifers.
The management team and BOD are measured by the numbers. If the financial numbers and growth plan are not supported by the numbers, then they need to go.
I also want to add that there still is nothing like a Harley Davidson motorcycle. The V Twin engine is the most iconic motor in the world and no other bike has as much character. The quality of a Harley-Davidson is absolutely world-class. Now, having said they need to shed a few models and invest in making the lineup irresistible. Also, get that Bronx on the market and do an early refresh of the Pan America. And keep it Made in the USA
Your comments on the Nightster and Sportster are spot on ! Total design fails for reasons only tied to $$. Indian nailed it with the new Scout lineup , Royal Enfield is killing it with their simple low cost high quality bikes. Harley-Davidson needs to fire the current CEO, hire a motorcyclist who understands what the marketplace is looking for. This is all fixable, but they need to act quickly ! 👍🇺🇸 Oh, the government help of the 1980s was not a bail out like we saw with General Motors years ago, but rather Harley only asked President Reagan to issue a tariff on large displacement motorcycles coming into the United States, to give them ample room for their come back.
Harley employs over 6,000 people according to Google. I won't not buy and hurt all their workers just because a few of the top people made a decision I disagree with.
Still have an ironhead sportster, but I ride a Triumph these days. I like the handling in the curves. I still ride a 40's flathead, hand shift, foot clutch.
New rider and I wanted a HD Nightster for about 5 minutes. Either the out the door price being too high for what you get I wasn’t wanting to pay that much for my first bike. Got a Honda Rebel 1100 DCT instead and have been in love with it. I don’t regret not going with HD.
I think Harley is absolutely doing a good job, their 2024 lineup is definitely full of technology. My 2024 Road Glide has everything I could ever want. The aftermarket is like no other, it’s like a fox body mustang, parts galore, everything you could imagine is available. I loved my Kawasaki z1000 and my zuke SV1000. Once you ride a big cubic inch Harley on the open road it’s hard to get on anything else. Goldwings are awesome and BMW❤ but the aftermarket support just isn’t there. You literally can buy heads,cams, cylinders right off the Harley website and put together a monster 160hp with equal torque 😅, there is superchargers and turbo kits readily available for 200 hp and 200ft. Lbs. torque 😂. Don’t be a brokie, live your dreams men😝
The current MoCo executives would be perfectly happy selling an ultra premium price CVO line only, made in Thailand with the cheapest parts on earth. They don’t give a F.
Well, if they make those rev max bikes over sea, and sell them in America, President Trump will put a tariff on them. No help for companies building outside the US.
You gotta pay to play. For anything anymore, not just HDs. Bought a 2015 Yamaha Raider with $1500 add ons for $7250 private sale. As much as I loved it, it didn't feel like my bike. Dealer gave me $8000 after I put on 5k mi in 6mo, for a 2024 rg whiskey fire/chrome. The king tour pack, painted inner fairing, 14" kst ornery apes, 50 cal tabs with zombie baffles, kuryakyn skeleton mirrors, makes it feel like my bike. But my bone stock $4000 2012 v star 1300 with 4600mi, cobra air intake, cobra slip on, flashed ecu, lindy crash bar, is all mine too. A hell of a motorcycle for around $6000 total. I'll never sell it. Even my $3000 honda silver wing scooter with 2105mi will smoke a lot of older harleys. 😂 I love my metrics, but owning and operating and maintaining a harley is not for everybody.
We as a country need to compete globally. Paying someone $100k/year to run the same bolt in all day will/has moved all manufacturering out of the US. Harley doesn't even try to compete. They just make whatever the hell they want and blame lack of sales on everything else but themselves... The tarrifs in the '80s did not work. Harley sales didnt go up, imported bike sales went down slightly. All it did was put new bikes out of reach of a lot of riders.
Can you explain to me in your own opinion why Harley is not having any cheap under 15 k bikes ? Because all the bikes that are 20 k in USA here in Europe are 23-25 k ...
Small displacement with more power. Put those Harley's on a diet. They can make an engine half the size and more power. Cut cost in good ways. I like the fast x Harley. I think the digital sportster gauge would be nice in a road king. I don't like the Rebel look or The Buell super cruiser. They both could use like a Bott frame. It would be cheaper and easier to make. The 500 cc and less is the biggest seller in Europe.
Just like Stellantis and the Dodge, Chrysler, Ram, and Jeep lines. They are priced out of the market and nobody is buying $100K pickups. They even stopped production of any new vehicles! It's the same sad story!
Lee Iacocca once said “lead, follow or get out of the way”. Harley can’t compete against everyone and every level. Harley leads the lifestyle, big bike culture. They have giga tons of data that leads to these decisions. Do we hate to see these bikes leave? Yes but they need to make money and the big bikes are their bread and butter.
Well I remember hearing that Harley started that by sending engineers, machines and other equipment to Japan to help get them started and as it turns out it bit them in the ass . As I recall
HD board, Jochen Zeitz, wants the company to be high-end elite luxury line; period. There are plenty of entry bike companies (Harley can't compete). marcus
It is because BlackRock, Vanguard and State Street own the majority of the shares and they make the decisions. They have so much money they care more the message than 5-10% customer sales profit margin.
Today's Hardley-Davidson is Just another motorcycle company. The soul is gone. News flash: Flex-hole Jochen just ordered 4 more engine variants to bring the count to 57.
The CEO of HD is doing exactly as he said he would do: less bikes, more profit. The Sportster should’ve been revised like the Triumph Bonneville. The Rev Max, if it sounds like a Honda just buy the Honda. My 1982 Suzuki GS1100 with 46k miles rides every bit as good as my 2014 Sportster with only 6k miles. My 2010 Triumph Bonneville was like riding a 20” bmx bike: stupidly easy to ride. Classic Brit sound. I rode the Benelli “HD” 350. It’s what should draw in entry riders to the family. You use them for the msf, then sell them on the floor. HD should have gone the way of most automotive manufacturers. The Ford line and the Lincoln line. Something for all!
I 100 percent agree. Harley missed the boat, when they starved out the Buell line of bikes, and they never properly developed the Street 500/750 bikes. Even the Sportster line, with a heritage dating to 1957, was never given its due within Harley culture. They were regarded as “girls bikes,” a concept that’s offensive to both men and women. The new CEO stated “we’re going back to our roots.” Great. So they’re still selling $25-30k two wheeled barges, that are too big and expensive for beginner riders. Pass.
Before buying my bike, I also checked american bikes because I really love their look and sound. Both Hd and Indian do not offer anything under 17k euro. To put it into perspective, with that amount you can buy a multistrada v2 that is objectively a better bike and all american bikes can offer is just the look. In the end I settled for a Guzzi. I have a fantastic v twin from a historical brand and I still have spent less and have more than anything hd or indian could offer.
I like bikes that you don't have to spend $5,000 customizing. If you're looking at a Sportster, don't. Yamaha Bolt, Indian Scout, Honda Rebel, even Triumph Bonnie are much better. Payments??? NEVER finance toys.
Keep your street and road glides. That’s all they want to sell anyhow. I’ve ridden motorcycles since I was 12. I’ve had Harleys, Hondas,Suzukis and Yamahas through the years. I’m ready for an Indian or Triumph. They seem to be good quality and offer lots of features at low cost. Downside would be the lack of dealerships compared to Harley for support. I’m ready to jump ship though, Harley has just seemed to rub me the wrong way lately. The Japanese bikes have always worked flawlessly for me but time for a change
Woke, DEI, and a CEO from Germany, what else is there to know? Not there is anything wrong with Germans, they are great people. But this dude, he should go work at Peugeot or something. Harley needs a real American as its CEO. He also runs LiveWire, how is that dumpster fire going? Let’s just hope they can find their ass with either hand before they lose it. Their ass, I mean.
Harley doesn't have a hard time attracting new riders and young riders. Young people are buying more Harleys every day. This is the first time since the 60s that so many riders in their mid 20s are getting Harleys. The problem that Harley has is getting new and young riders to purchase NEW Harleys from the dealer. Yes younger riders are priced out of new Harleys but younger riders are forgoing buying new Sportsters and instead buying used Dynas with all the after market bells and whistles and even a stage 2 kit for cheaper than a new Sporty and a fraction of the cost of a monoshock softail. The new Harley market may have a problem getting new riders and younger riders but the used and second hand private Harley sales market certainly dont have that problem
Honda and Kawasaki both build bikes in the States.... I know it's still technically a metric but....its still helping our economy and supporting American jobs...
I'm in South Africa. I work for myself and I can afford any bike payments I want to. Banks don't see it that way though so all my rides are bought cash and most are second hand. Harley is now offering a rent to own promotion in South Africa with no credit checks through major banks. I do qualify through Harley, but here's the problem. The new Harleys are ugly AF. If only the offer was 4 years ago I'd have few in the stable. Bring back the sportsters, wide glides and keep it simple and affordable.
Don’t be surprised to see money from Indonesia either buy or take over HD. They were interested in Indian before Polaris took over. The dealers were in Vegas for the dealers convention when the deal fell through. How long can Harley survive when every quarter shows double digit sales drops.
Harley should make small cc bikes to market to other countries just like what the big 4 is doing, affordable bikes that attract the younger generation not just for old folks, make scramblers, dual sports bikes (small cc) sports bikes....
I have no particular brand loyalty. Ill buy any bike. And I have plenty of money. The problem is I get way way more with a BMW for the same or less money than I get with HD. I just dont get why people would pay more for less. Just seems so illogical to me. ???
I was very happy when HD came out with the PanAm then the reviews started coming in, ugh .for that kind of money you'd think they would have worked out the bugs a little better. It's all simple little things but for 24 grand they need to do R&D before the customer gets the product.
There are many kinds of motorcycle riders. There are the retro riders. The crotch rocket riders. The first time riders. The bagger riders. The chopper riders. The dirt bike riders. Nobody can cover all those area's. Each company needs to focus on their nich market.
Very simply Harley Davidson does not make fun to ride bikes. They only make large, heavy bikes that are all much harder to ride and park than bikes made by every other manufacturer. The wheelbase of Harleys are all long, the rake is long and the seats are low. Even what Harley calls mid-mount pegs is what everyone who rides other bikes call forward pegs. For whatever reason HD management has made terrible decisions for decades. Remember when Evel Kneivel rode a Harley XR 750? And millions of kids had the toys? Did Harley put lights on it and sell it? The XR 750 would have been a great competitor to the Ducati Monster. Closing down Buell lost them additional marketing opportunities that brought in riders they would not have gotten. Even today with the King of the Baggers series, you can not buy a Harley with the same dimensions, seat height, peg placement, riding position, rake, trail, suspension. Harley has decided to only make bikes for lawyers and dentists who want a little cosplay and garage candy. That's their price points and marketing. And how about the Bronx?
Technology is exactly what I don't want in a motorcycle. I want a motorcycle, not an electronic, exhaust emission control scooter with a Star Ship Enterprise panel on the handle bars. I currently ride a 2011 Fat Boy Lo I purchased new. It is at the crossroads of a motorcycle and a electronic control device. It is very difficult to work on and in many cases you can't. I've been riding Harley's since 1969 and I think they should have stopped at the invention of the electric starter. Anything after that was useless bs. Just give me a bike I can ride, do normal maintenance on and not have to go to NASA to get a tune up. Just like just about everything else in America, Harley has gone to sh**. At this point it is Euro Trash. How's that goose stepper at the helm working out?
I don’t Harley has any interest in making affordable bikes. Honda and the other manufactures want more customers so they price reasonable. Even the Indian Scouts are way better than the Rev Max bikes. I have a Nightster Special and as good as it is, I just won’t keep it.
They're jacking prices 3K for 2025 models. Riding in the Ozarks covered it. They're trying to make up for losses in 2024 ans think thats the way to do it. They're toast. HD will be 100% made in Thailand in 10 years. What a joke of a company.
Im on my last bike. I have a 21 RGL. Who ever gets this one from me will have an amazing touring bike. Doing all the right modifications and none of the carnival bling BS. Im into this bike for too much $$$ so im going to stop right here. This is my 7th harley and the worste purchase ive ever made. Nice bike but the value is not there and ill lose $10k in blue book just to sell it.
My take on it is different, I don’t think there is that many new riders coming in to the motorcycle world. The young guys aren’t into anything mechanical I can see that the females are gaining in numbers. Here’s the thing if you are younger and want a Harley and can wrench buying a new one is not the way to go with all the aftermarket parts you can fine tune a bike to how ever you want it. There is a ton of low mileage Harleys for sale on the market right now. And if you want a deal buy I higher mileage one and go thru it like I am. But the real deal is on the Japanese used market they lose their value fast. Ride safe
@ericr.7527 AMF developed the Evolution engine, the 5 speed transmission, frames and rubbermount system used in the FLT and FXR and later the Dynas, made electric start and disc brakes standard on everything, updated suspension components on everything, new carburetors on everything, introduced electronic ignition, increased displacement on Big Twins and Sportsters, converted engines to run on shit gas and meet new noise and emission standards. Not to mention modernizing and streamlining the entire production process and built a new factory. Yeah, they were just horrible. There wouldn't be a Harley Davidson today if it wasn't for AMF. Most quality problems of the period can be traced back to pissy union workers who were upset by production quotas and moving some manufacturing out of state.
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The government has no business in keeping a company alive if a company is dying it is because of their business model.
You're most people of a certain political or social economical mindset think exactly that that you should not say accompanies but only when it's companies that have a certain mindset themselves if they don't like when it comes time to be free market and let companies die yet they may be fit the product or the company philosophy fits the political philosophy than all of a sudden it's do subsidies like either we going to be fair or we're not going to be fair.
YES!
@@ondago2wha wha what did you say. Grammer and sentance structure if your to be understood
@@ondago2learn ENGLISH!
@arthurcutaiar9994. *You're, not your. Also, you've left out some punctuation.
Agree. I think Harley should start changing their name to "Harley -Euro -Davidson". When you stop making the tried & thru Road King standard, something stinks.
That’s what I thought as well. I have owned 3 RK Standards. What am I gonna buy now that doesn’t cost as much as a Mercedes?
Look at the road king police special.
Harley-Davidson has turned me into an Indian rider. Goodbye H-D
real smart bub. did you not see what polaris did to victory?
@@maddog7999Polaris ditched victory for Indian. Plus Indian is killing it and Isn't going anywhere. My Scout Rogue is a great bike and I've had zero issues and a ton of fun so far.
@@axelfoley5155Indian is just as Woke as HD and controlled by Vanguard and Blackrock same as HD.
@jamesstafford62 you guys and your woke business. I'm glad I'm one of the people that don't care what a company does as long as it makes a good bike I'm going to enjoy it.
@@jamesstafford62 you seem very concerned about a people being “woke” and having a diverse community. If you take the time to understand how that affects people and their choice. You would then know you, yourself are the exact person they are trying to replace. Owning and riding any style of motorcycle is not just for grumpy white dudes.
Howdy, I’ve been riding for about 68 years of my life. Just saying all that cause I’ve seen the ups and downs of the Harley show. But I’ve stayed with them till about 4 years now. Not interested in anything Harley manufacturers to this day. I’m old school and have an addiction for most of the older models cause I can fix them. Today, one needs a degree the fantasy world to fix what’s is broke on the new design stuff. Still love riding as my favorite thing in life. Sure I’m at the age they say I should be on a walker instead of my Harleys or my old 1952 Indian. I can still walk and chew gum and I intend to ride till I can’t see. I’m an excellent rider been through most of the riding programs through my many years. Even did a law enforcement motorcycle trading class. That was great dropping their special designed motorcycles, and I passed the training. Bikes are my first love, they saved my life when I returned from that hell hole called Vietnam in the late 60s. This is why I’m still on the bike with bugs on my teeth and the sun in my face. See ya down the road of life…plus age is just a number. I think I’m still 40 years old, my birth certificate says different.😎
Peace Brother! Good for you!
Maybe, and I know it sounds crazy, but hear me out, maybe they are trying to sink HD in the long run, and drive the company out of business. Given who the leadership is, and the history and legacy of HD, and the culture we are living in today, I don't think it sounds totally crazy. Anyone else?
Who are "They" that are trying to run HD out of business, the stockholders? People buy stock to make money, nobody I know likes to lose it. I believe HD is catering to a customer base that adheres to a nostalgic sensibility and mentality. Most HD riders today are dentists playing dress-up, trying to be tough guys in their Sons of Anarchy jackets. HD refuses to modernize, killed Buell and V-Rod, not deserves to go the way of the horse-drawn covered wagon.
I completely agree. A failed shoe salesman ceo? Think Al Bundy. Jockem is a bad joke turning an American icon woke. If the us government gets involved it's OVER. Well, as it stands, the MoCo has already shot itself in the foot while it's in their mouth.
American icons are under attack
Our beer our bikes and just about everything that red blooded American people love 😮
It sounds totally crazy.
News alert to everyone!!!!!! You can buy a practically new slightly used HD for THOUSANDS less from a reputable dealer verses a HD dealership. For the life of me I cannot understand why people are going to the HD stealerships and being way upside down walking out the door.
I saw an advertised price for a '22 Nightster of only $7k with less than 400 miles on it. MSRP for a '24 is $12K. How's THAT for depreciation?
@@tedunguent156 exactly my point
I started on a new Sportster & it was a POS. In the shop 16 times the 1st 6 months.
I wrote a letter to the President of Harley & while my bike was in the shop.
They called me & said, go pick out any new Harley that I wanted!
I grabbed a Road King & they took the price & financing of the Sportster & transferred it to the King! HD takes care of it's customers! Just as I was about to give up.
I've since lost it & moved to Colorado Springs & currently looking at a Vulcan for $2k that's decked out..
Because Harley has always had the mindset of, you'll take what we give you and you'll like it.
No matter what armchair TH-camrs spew out Harley-Davidson will always be alright 👍
No for real.. exactly!
And not long ago I found a video of a guy explain that Harley doesn’t have to make quality products because consumers have been so indoctrinated to follow the brand they will never lose their fan base.
Harley literally knows they suck.. but they look cool so “they’re the best.”
Royal Enfield bikes are sold before they are unboxed at the dealership. Triumphs are selling almost as well, certain models of Honda they can't meet demand. Harley dug their grave, all that is left is the flowers. I will never own a Harley again, just not worth it.
@Group_Anonymous no argument there because HD is a brand and will always have their loyal followers. The fact remains that they just keep churning out the same product over and over, raise the price with nothing really new to offer and then about once a decade when they have to, will make major changes. Sometimes good, sometimes bad and if bad, they apologize and eventually make it right. They've been around long enough to know they shouldn't rush new products and have the ability to lead innovation but choose not to because money.
In terms of entry-level classic style bikes, Royal Enfield is also a force to be reckoned with. They make gorgeous classic style bikes at approachable power and price levels, without the "Harley culture" that turns a fair amount of young people away from the brand. I was able to get a fantastic 650cc/47HP cruiser for 7.3k MSRP that came with a simple but effective GPS navigation pod and a fancy paint scheme. HD offers nothing close to that value!
HD dealers are EVERYWHERE. Third party support is huge. I like Royal Enfield but let's put ALL of the cards on the table, shall we?
@tedunguent156 Yes, HD dealers are everywhere, but the RE 650 twins are also very easy to work on yourself with some basic mechanics tools and a little patience, given the amount of official RE and third party repair knowledge that is out there for free. If one is willing to work on their own bike, then the lack of dealer support can at most be mitigated, IMO. But not entirely, as the dealers that are around for RE can charge a lot more than they should, given the lack of competition for the time being. Still, Harley needs to have some kind of competitive option for an entry-level classic-style cruiser, ideally a 450-650cc bike for around 7k or so. If they actually had one that was reliable, I probably would have bought it over my RE!
@@AwesomeAliza It would seem obvious that Harley does not want to sell $7K bikes with a $3k markup. They want to sell $30K - $40K bikes with a $15K - $20K markup.
HD dealers are everywhere. Good luck finding a corporate crystal palace that'll service a bike more than 5 years old, let alone getting it serviced without parking it in the waiting lot for 2 weeks. And are the few mom n pop shops even able to service a rev max?
@@LARGO125 What a ridiculous exaggeration. Harleys are perhaps the easiest bikes to service. Expecially the older ones.
Excellent video, speaking as a UK chopper rider I love your thoughts of mounting the new engines in old style Harleys but I think the frames are not up to it. HD’s have always looked cool but the new models look plastic and then of course the home mechanic can’t touch them. Gimme “Old Skool” every time.
They survived on "heritage" for so long they out lived their customers.
I completely agree with one of your statements. I bought a 23 Honda Rebel 1100. Looked at a few HD's, and instantly thought, why would I spend twice the money for half the features. Love the look and sound of HD's, but too much money for what you get. Especially if it's your first bike. Even if I end up buying a HD cause I need something bigger for a passenger, still not gonna get rid of my REBEL. TOO MUCH FUN TO RIDE!
Bought a new bike two years ago. Looked at HD, $8000 more than the bike I ended up getting. That ain't chump change, that's a whole second bike. Then, the used market is flooded with HD's. They're not holding their price, as most used bikes don't. The main thing you get with a Harley other brands don't have is the community. Is that worth the price? Your decision. I picked the two bike choice.
The problem I have seen is everyone wanted the street and road glide. So all the chickens went into those two bikes.
Harley-Davidson lost me a long, long time ago!
When I decided to purchase my finishing motorcycle I purchased a new Moto Guzzi V100 Mandello S because it had some great features and I don’t have any buyers remorse after 7,500 miles!
V100 is a beautiful bike! 👍🏼
@@mr.t9976
I've been on 2 wheels since 1965, so I feel qualified to say it's a high-quality motorcycle that's a joy to ride! The Ohlins electronic suspension is worth the extra expense IMHO!
@@larryechols6606 I love the V7 850's. The V9 Bobber too. I'm hoping to see a new roadster (Eldorado) one of these days.
You're right on both accounts. Without the traditional HD look it's just another metric bike. Without an entry bike HD is closing off new riders from joining the brand. 😢
On top of the price, the Harley QC is dismal.
The price has gone down on many models. That said, QC and engineering has been problematic for years.
My 2024 Vivid Black Street Glide was 32k out the door.. I love my Harley 🥰
but it's a disposable money pit.
I had the Rebel 1100 - Great bike, light nimble and a sports bike in disguise. But not a HD48 in soul. Was getting ready for a Road king or a Heritage, but HD issues pushed me into a great R18 at an even better price and I am not a HD clone, but part of the quality club.
I test rode a Rebel 1100 and a BMW R18. The Rebel was fantastic with light weight and that African Twin motor. The looks were meh. The R18 looks rather good, but I could barely fit the tip of my toe under the left cylinder so I could change gears. After a lot of trial and error, I ended up on a H-D Dyna Street Bob - the older twin shock model. It is about as Harley as Harley gets.
One day, try one of the R1250 BMW versions to go along with your R18. Or go do a test ride in the twisties.
I agree with you.
They're intentionally not playing in that part of the market, and I think it's a big mistake.
The average Harley rider is over 50 years old. New riders aren't coming. The Sportster and Nightster S aren't selling because riders over 50 don't want them. Other manufacturers do the Nightster thing better for far less. The beginner Harley is a used Harley. New Harley's should be luxury bikes aimed at wealthy riders in their 50's. Focus on that.
I'm closing in on 70, my "new Harley is a 2005", my favorite is a 42 flathead, a bit newer than my 37 I sold back in the early eighties. No one can steal it, hardly anyone knows how to ride a "hand shift" with a rocker clutch pedal.
Wrong, the average age is 43-44.
Thank you for this video. I took my MSF course and got my motorcycle endorsement on a HD, but they're too expensive, slow and heavy; the Softail is about 200lbs heavier than a comparable Honda Steed, less reliable and today, a 30 year-old Softail costs four times what a Steed would've cost new. I might hurt some HD rider's feelings, but facts are facts. Sure, nostalgia and reputation have a place, but HDs reputation hasn't been stable.
I had a 2022 Nightster with rev max 975 engine rode more like a metric bike I owned, rode it for a year. Traded it in for a 2023 Low rider S. Nightster just did not look or feel like a Harley, I tried to like the bike the performance it has was great but again like a metric bike felted more like the Yamaha I owned rather than a Harley. I had to take it in 4 different times for electrical issues, dealer fixed them under warranty but the issue was having to take it in. I really enjoy the Low Rider S I would say best bike I owned.
One of the reasons I dislike H-D is because of the Government involvement in the 80's, the consumer should choose winners and losers NOT the Government. Additionally, Trump will put tariffs on all goods manufactured outside the U.S. including H-d.
Indeed. The buyers, not the makers, will be saddled with paying MORE to avoid HD's low end bikes or anything else. You want an inline 4/V-4/parallel twin? Tariffs will make you pay more for those too. American makers, produce the products we want to buy or get out of the way.
Donold's concept of a plan is panned by the real economists.
Yeah... but bring Willy G back. He was the last CEO that did understand the market and how to build a motorcycle.
Even today's aftermarket companies sell better looking Harley engines then Harley Davidson. If it ain't looks like a Harley or sounds like a Harley, it probably isn't a Harley, whatever is says on the fuel tank.
From what I've seen in the UK only rich people ride Hogs. It's a shame, they are missing out in not making an affordable option here. A Harley not made in the US wouldn't affect purchasing one in the UK I wouldn't have thought as long as the build quality was up to scratch and it looked like a proper old school Harley. People here love the brand. I'm not a crusier rider, however I do get why folk love Harley and I'd hate to see them fail or die out due to no new riders.
Indians look pretty cool 😎
They should never have gotten away from the evo in my opinion 🇨🇦
Do you mean keep it around for ANOTHER 35 years? LOL The Big Twin bikes got the Twin Cam in 1998. Why didn't the Sportster get a new engine and a 6 speed transmission long ago? Maybe they would have sold a LOT more of them.
EVOs Forever. The last of the real ones.
I have a 1990 evo dresser, bulletproof engine and runs great
Thing is, they don't care. Right now they care about the brand and making those BROTHER'S happy with their new CVO paint that cost's 55k. As long as they have a clibbins mode so they don't have to layerdown, the crowd they are catering to will be happy. I loved the allure of having a harley but the prices are insane for what you get, I only just started riding and am looking at my 2nd bike as a cruiser, I will be getting a 2025 rebel 1100 or an Indian chief I have no interest in Harley Davidson now because of A: how the majority of their riders are and B: the price.
My husband and I discuss this all the time. Harley is hurting themselves by not making bikes for entry riders. Usually, once you're in with Harley, you stay with them. In our option's they are hurting themselves with the lifelong riders with the price points on the bikes now. The lifers are getting older, and it doesn't make sense for those in their 60's and 70's to go into debt for 30-40 thousand. They are losing at both ends, beginners and lifers.
The management team and BOD are measured by the numbers. If the financial numbers and growth plan are not supported by the numbers, then they need to go.
I also want to add that there still is nothing like a Harley Davidson motorcycle. The V Twin engine is the most iconic motor in the world and no other bike has as much character. The quality of a Harley-Davidson is absolutely world-class. Now, having said they need to shed a few models and invest in making the lineup irresistible. Also, get that Bronx on the market and do an early refresh of the Pan America. And keep it Made in the USA
Harley lost that "character" with the introduction of the Milwaukee 8 and Rev Max engines! 👌
Your comments on the Nightster and Sportster are spot on ! Total design fails for reasons only tied to $$. Indian nailed it with the new Scout lineup , Royal Enfield is killing it with their simple low cost high quality bikes. Harley-Davidson needs to fire the current CEO, hire a motorcyclist who understands what the marketplace is looking for. This is all fixable, but they need to act quickly ! 👍🇺🇸
Oh, the government help of the 1980s was not a bail out like we saw with General Motors years ago, but rather Harley only asked President Reagan to issue a tariff on large displacement motorcycles coming into the United States, to give them ample room for their come back.
When Harley went woke. I will never buy another Harley
💯
Gasp, Harley wants to hire people you don't like??
Harley employs over 6,000 people according to Google. I won't not buy and hurt all their workers just because a few of the top people made a decision I disagree with.
Yep. Same ✋
Karen, you should boycott all companies that have policies you don't agree with. Hint: first produce your own food.
Still have an ironhead sportster, but I ride a Triumph these days. I like the handling in the curves. I still ride a 40's flathead, hand shift, foot clutch.
New rider and I wanted a HD Nightster for about 5 minutes. Either the out the door price being too high for what you get I wasn’t wanting to pay that much for my first bike. Got a Honda Rebel 1100 DCT instead and have been in love with it. I don’t regret not going with HD.
It's definitely not doing themselves any favors, H-D dealers are starting to close/fail (like Los Angeles H-D in Fullerton)
All I ever hear is horror stories of Harley's dismal QC. They're too expensive to be this trash.
Mines been awesome. Tires, oil, mods, and a water pump recently, but it is a 2014.
@@1hdoilfielddad244 That's awesome! Have you been on any new ones lately?
@@MiketheNerdRanger no i havent, the new look of the touring line isnt for me. I have heard theyve been problematic for alot of people.
never liked any harley until i saw the new sporster s with that evolution engine,hope they bring out a flat track bike like the Indian ftr1200
I think Harley is absolutely doing a good job, their 2024 lineup is definitely full of technology. My 2024 Road Glide has everything I could ever want.
The aftermarket is like no other, it’s like a fox body mustang, parts galore, everything you could imagine is available.
I loved my Kawasaki z1000 and my zuke SV1000.
Once you ride a big cubic inch Harley on the open road it’s hard to get on anything else.
Goldwings are awesome and BMW❤ but the aftermarket support just isn’t there. You literally can buy heads,cams, cylinders right off the Harley website and put together a monster 160hp with equal torque 😅, there is superchargers and turbo kits readily available for 200 hp and 200ft. Lbs. torque 😂.
Don’t be a brokie, live your dreams men😝
The current MoCo executives would be perfectly happy selling an ultra premium price CVO line only, made in Thailand with the cheapest parts on earth. They don’t give a F.
Price is one of the biggest barriers to buying a new HD. Even used at an HD dealership are unaffordable.
I couldn't agree with you more, getting rid of that entry level line made 0 sense
Well, if they make those rev max bikes over sea, and sell them in America, President Trump will put a tariff on them. No help for companies building outside the US.
You gotta pay to play. For anything anymore, not just HDs.
Bought a 2015 Yamaha Raider with $1500 add ons for $7250 private sale. As much as I loved it, it didn't feel like my bike. Dealer gave me $8000 after I put on 5k mi in 6mo, for a 2024 rg whiskey fire/chrome. The king tour pack, painted inner fairing, 14" kst ornery apes, 50 cal tabs with zombie baffles, kuryakyn skeleton mirrors, makes it feel like my bike.
But my bone stock $4000 2012 v star 1300 with 4600mi, cobra air intake, cobra slip on, flashed ecu, lindy crash bar, is all mine too. A hell of a motorcycle for around $6000 total. I'll never sell it.
Even my $3000 honda silver wing scooter with 2105mi will smoke a lot of older harleys. 😂
I love my metrics, but owning and operating and maintaining a harley is not for everybody.
We as a country need to compete globally. Paying someone $100k/year to run the same bolt in all day will/has moved all manufacturering out of the US. Harley doesn't even try to compete. They just make whatever the hell they want and blame lack of sales on everything else but themselves...
The tarrifs in the '80s did not work. Harley sales didnt go up, imported bike sales went down slightly. All it did was put new bikes out of reach of a lot of riders.
Can you explain to me in your own opinion why Harley is not having any cheap under 15 k bikes ? Because all the bikes that are 20 k in USA here in Europe are 23-25 k ...
Small displacement with more power. Put those Harley's on a diet. They can make an engine half the size and more power. Cut cost in good ways. I like the fast x Harley. I think the digital sportster gauge would be nice in a road king. I don't like the Rebel look or The Buell super cruiser. They both could use like a Bott frame. It would be cheaper and easier to make. The 500 cc and less is the biggest seller in Europe.
Harley doesn't learnfrom its mistakes.They are junk now
Just like Stellantis and the Dodge, Chrysler, Ram, and Jeep lines. They are priced out of the market and nobody is buying $100K pickups. They even stopped production of any new vehicles! It's the same sad story!
Lee Iacocca once said “lead, follow or get out of the way”. Harley can’t compete against everyone and every level. Harley leads the lifestyle, big bike culture. They have giga tons of data that leads to these decisions. Do we hate to see these bikes leave? Yes but they need to make money and the big bikes are their bread and butter.
If honda brought back a muscle cruiser i wouldn't buy a harley again.
Well I remember hearing that Harley started that by sending engineers, machines and other equipment to Japan to help get them started and as it turns out it bit them in the ass . As I recall
HD board, Jochen Zeitz, wants the company to be high-end elite luxury line; period.
There are plenty of entry bike companies (Harley can't compete).
marcus
I enjoy my over 30year old chopper. I didn't try a HD so far, because I didn't like the behavior of HD Fanboys.
It is because BlackRock, Vanguard and State Street own the majority of the shares and they make the decisions. They have so much money they care more the message than 5-10% customer sales profit margin.
Today's Hardley-Davidson is Just another motorcycle company. The soul is gone. News flash: Flex-hole Jochen just ordered 4 more engine variants to bring the count to 57.
The CEO of HD is doing exactly as he said he would do: less bikes, more profit. The Sportster should’ve been revised like the Triumph Bonneville. The Rev Max, if it sounds like a Honda just buy the Honda. My 1982 Suzuki GS1100 with 46k miles rides every bit as good as my 2014 Sportster with only 6k miles. My 2010 Triumph Bonneville was like riding a 20” bmx bike: stupidly easy to ride. Classic Brit sound. I rode the Benelli “HD” 350. It’s what should draw in entry riders to the family. You use them for the msf, then sell them on the floor. HD should have gone the way of most automotive manufacturers. The Ford line and the Lincoln line. Something for all!
I 100 percent agree. Harley missed the boat, when they starved out the Buell line of bikes, and they never properly developed the Street 500/750 bikes. Even the Sportster line, with a heritage dating to 1957, was never given its due within Harley culture. They were regarded as “girls bikes,” a concept that’s offensive to both men and women. The new CEO stated “we’re going back to our roots.” Great. So they’re still selling $25-30k two wheeled barges, that are too big and expensive for beginner riders. Pass.
Before buying my bike, I also checked american bikes because I really love their look and sound. Both Hd and Indian do not offer anything under 17k euro. To put it into perspective, with that amount you can buy a multistrada v2 that is objectively a better bike and all american bikes can offer is just the look.
In the end I settled for a Guzzi. I have a fantastic v twin from a historical brand and I still have spent less and have more than anything hd or indian could offer.
I kind of thought Harley may use that writer's edge course bike as an entry level bike the 350 but it don't look like they are
Question, you really think Keyless ignition a positive Feature? My HD has the Fob. I much rather have a key
Proper term for that shirt is "Huckle Bearer."
Harley could have kept an 883 and called it the Sportster Classic.
I like bikes that you don't have to spend $5,000 customizing.
If you're looking at a Sportster, don't. Yamaha Bolt, Indian Scout, Honda Rebel, even Triumph Bonnie are much better.
Payments??? NEVER finance toys.
I've financed many TOYS over the years and have never been upside down one time. Just gotta be smart about it....
I have a 06 Sportster. I do believe that Harley has lost its way. 😢
Go check out the pre-owned prices, for the Japanese touring or cruiser.
Keep your street and road glides. That’s all they want to sell anyhow. I’ve ridden motorcycles since I was 12. I’ve had Harleys, Hondas,Suzukis and Yamahas through the years. I’m ready for an Indian or Triumph. They seem to be good quality and offer lots of features at low cost. Downside would be the lack of dealerships compared to Harley for support. I’m ready to jump ship though, Harley has just seemed to rub me the wrong way lately. The Japanese bikes have always worked flawlessly for me but time for a change
Woke, DEI, and a CEO from Germany, what else is there to know? Not there is anything wrong with Germans, they are great people. But this dude, he should go work at Peugeot or something. Harley needs a real American as its CEO. He also runs LiveWire, how is that dumpster fire going?
Let’s just hope they can find their ass with either hand before they lose it. Their ass, I mean.
Harley doesn't have a hard time attracting new riders and young riders. Young people are buying more Harleys every day. This is the first time since the 60s that so many riders in their mid 20s are getting Harleys.
The problem that Harley has is getting new and young riders to purchase NEW Harleys from the dealer. Yes younger riders are priced out of new Harleys but younger riders are forgoing buying new Sportsters and instead buying used Dynas with all the after market bells and whistles and even a stage 2 kit for cheaper than a new Sporty and a fraction of the cost of a monoshock softail.
The new Harley market may have a problem getting new riders and younger riders but the used and second hand private Harley sales market certainly dont have that problem
Honda and Kawasaki both build bikes in the States.... I know it's still technically a metric but....its still helping our economy and supporting American jobs...
And that's why I bought a 2002 1200C last year...just to have one
I'm in South Africa. I work for myself and I can afford any bike payments I want to. Banks don't see it that way though so all my rides are bought cash and most are second hand.
Harley is now offering a rent to own promotion in South Africa with no credit checks through major banks. I do qualify through Harley, but here's the problem. The new Harleys are ugly AF. If only the offer was 4 years ago I'd have few in the stable.
Bring back the sportsters, wide glides and keep it simple and affordable.
Don’t be surprised to see money from Indonesia either buy or take over HD. They were interested in Indian before Polaris took over. The dealers were in Vegas for the dealers convention when the deal fell through. How long can Harley survive when every quarter shows double digit sales drops.
Harley should make small cc bikes to market to other countries just like what the big 4 is doing, affordable bikes that attract the younger generation not just for old folks, make scramblers, dual sports bikes (small cc) sports bikes....
I’ve been riding for 50 years. Never road one. I’ve lost friends because they bought one then can’t be seen with a non Harley type.
Cult
There are a lot of nice bikes coming out of China and Japan that are a third or less of the price,how do you compete with them.
Does the "small veteran owned business" have a name?
I only buy 2003 or older HD Sportster. HD is problematic mechanically however 3rd party vendors make parts that are superior to OEM.
I remember 883 hugger for 5 tho.
I want to see a Harley Davidson Grom fighter. 125cc and 10hp.
I have no particular brand loyalty. Ill buy any bike. And I have plenty of money. The problem is I get way way more with a BMW for the same or less money than I get with HD. I just dont get why people would pay more for less. Just seems so illogical to me. ???
Killer giveaway!
I was very happy when HD came out with the PanAm then the reviews started coming in, ugh .for that kind of money you'd think they would have worked out the bugs a little better. It's all simple little things but for 24 grand they need to do R&D before the customer gets the product.
Harley is actually making a single cylinder bike , the x440 in India. Just came across my feed...I hadn't heard of it??
Hundred percent agree with you
There are many kinds of motorcycle riders. There are the retro riders. The crotch rocket riders. The first time riders. The bagger riders. The chopper riders. The dirt bike riders. Nobody can cover all those area's. Each company needs to focus on their nich market.
Ceo always run a company in the ground and gov bails them out. Same old same old
Old Sportsters wouldn’t pass emissions for the European markets. Plus Harley is too big, heavy, and expensive for the Asian markets.
Do Blackrock and Vanguard still own big chunks of HD stock?
If so, there's your answer.
I agree sound like Clock
Very simply Harley Davidson does not make fun to ride bikes. They only make large, heavy bikes that are all much harder to ride and park than bikes made by every other manufacturer. The wheelbase of Harleys are all long, the rake is long and the seats are low. Even what Harley calls mid-mount pegs is what everyone who rides other bikes call forward pegs.
For whatever reason HD management has made terrible decisions for decades. Remember when Evel Kneivel rode a Harley XR 750? And millions of kids had the toys? Did Harley put lights on it and sell it? The XR 750 would have been a great competitor to the Ducati Monster. Closing down Buell lost them additional marketing opportunities that brought in riders they would not have gotten.
Even today with the King of the Baggers series, you can not buy a Harley with the same dimensions, seat height, peg placement, riding position, rake, trail, suspension.
Harley has decided to only make bikes for lawyers and dentists who want a little cosplay and garage candy. That's their price points and marketing. And how about the Bronx?
The quality is still not up to the Japanese motorcycles 😢
Technology is exactly what I don't want in a motorcycle. I want a motorcycle, not an electronic, exhaust emission control scooter with a Star Ship Enterprise panel on the handle bars. I currently ride a 2011 Fat Boy Lo I purchased new. It is at the crossroads of a motorcycle and a electronic control device. It is very difficult to work on and in many cases you can't. I've been riding Harley's since 1969 and I think they should have stopped at the invention of the electric starter. Anything after that was useless bs. Just give me a bike I can ride, do normal maintenance on and not have to go to NASA to get a tune up. Just like just about everything else in America, Harley has gone to sh**. At this point it is Euro Trash. How's that goose stepper at the helm working out?
And my Harley friends give me shit for riding a Triumph
I don’t Harley has any interest in making affordable bikes. Honda and the other manufactures want more customers so they price reasonable. Even the Indian Scouts are way better than the Rev Max bikes. I have a Nightster Special and as good as it is, I just won’t keep it.
They're jacking prices 3K for 2025 models. Riding in the Ozarks covered it. They're trying to make up for losses in 2024 ans think thats the way to do it. They're toast. HD will be 100% made in Thailand in 10 years. What a joke of a company.
Im on my last bike. I have a 21 RGL. Who ever gets this one from me will have an amazing touring bike. Doing all the right modifications and none of the carnival bling BS. Im into this bike for too much $$$ so im going to stop right here. This is my 7th harley and the worste purchase ive ever made. Nice bike but the value is not there and ill lose $10k in blue book just to sell it.
My take on it is different, I don’t think there is that many new riders coming in to the motorcycle world. The young guys aren’t into anything mechanical I can see that the females are gaining in numbers. Here’s the thing if you are younger and want a Harley and can wrench buying a new one is not the way to go with all the aftermarket parts you can fine tune a bike to how ever you want it. There is a ton of low mileage Harleys for sale on the market right now. And if you want a deal buy I higher mileage one and go thru it like I am. But the real deal is on the Japanese used market they lose their value fast. Ride safe
And you thought AMF was bad.
It was.
@ericr.7527 AMF developed the Evolution engine, the 5 speed transmission, frames and rubbermount system used in the FLT and FXR and later the Dynas, made electric start and disc brakes standard on everything, updated suspension components on everything, new carburetors on everything, introduced electronic ignition, increased displacement on Big Twins and Sportsters, converted engines to run on shit gas and meet new noise and emission standards.
Not to mention modernizing and streamlining the entire production process and built a new factory.
Yeah, they were just horrible.
There wouldn't be a Harley Davidson today if it wasn't for AMF.
Most quality problems of the period can be traced back to pissy union workers who were upset by production quotas and moving some manufacturing out of state.