With a guard onboard, the driver could focus on communicating to the signaller and control whilst the guard makes regular updates the the P.A and patrols the train answering questions. The driver had so much on his plate that he didn't even ring the signaller and get the lines blocked/emergency switch off. If not for the dispatcher ringing through, there could of easily been fatalities.
That's not how it works even if you are proffesional it just takes one person with a bit of adrenaline and frustration to act out and cause danger to their lives and others. Hope that he was nicked.
@TomSee The driver of the first Networker’s first announcement (the one informing the passengers why they had stopped) wasn’t very good, it was simply “train stopped, don’t know why”. The second Networker driver’s announcement to the passengers was much better; he provided a reason for the delay “failed train at Ashford Jn”, gave some sense of trying to fix the situation, as well as trying to empathise with the passengers “I know some of you are standing”, and he got out of the cab and went to the passenger area to try and reassure them. Now I partially agree with you that some people would open the doors regardless, but I’m sure the second driver’s better handling of the situation gave some comfort to the passengers on that train.
@@tomp6792 These videos are made by the UK rail industry as learning tools, and Thomas you have correctly identified one of the main learning points. The increased professional use of Twitter by UK rail companies was also one of the actions that came out of this issue.
Hmm, depends on many factors I would say, but keeping people well updated does help. Having been stuck on a very packed train for 30mins just outside of a station (early 2017, pre Lewisham), the fact that the driver in that situation kept reassuring and updating us probably did help to keep everyone calm and from self detraining, but after a while there's only so long that people will hold on for when there's a seemingly easy escape nearby
This was a chain of mistakes, in the first place by rule the driver of the failed train should have requested a 10 minutes fault finding time, rule book says if train fails you should request assistance immediately, but in all cases within 10 minutes. Both driver and signaller made a mistake in the first place. Signaller should have taken lead responsibility and instruct driver to report back within 10 minutes. Obviously there has been incorrect information passed on due to miscommunication as well. I agree, guard should be on each train, not even one, but at least two. Yes, driver have failed to give frequent information, but tbf he didn’t have any. Where he failed was obviously trying to hold passengers back and immediately making an emergency call. If assistance and fitters would have arrived within a reasonable time this all wouldn’t have happened. Maybe back in the day they didn’t have a timescale, only implemented it after these kind of incidents occurring.
Well, in Sydney, Australia on the new trains that have passenger emergency door releases, the guard has an override button that allows the guard to stop passengers opening the doors outside of a legitimate emergency. The doors will only open if the guard doesn’t override it within the allocated time, which is significant enough. The automatic response when the alarm goes off is to override the passengers attempt, establish contact with the passenger and then decide if it is required to allow passengers to use the emergency feature. When a passenger attempts to open one of these doors the intercom automatically opens up where the guard can speak directly to that passenger and the CCTV cameras automatically switch to show the guard the passenger so the guard can see what is happening. Misuse of emergency equipment carries heavy fines, and if the guard can lock you in the train during the delay and you are a persistently difficult passenger like this, you will find the police have been sent to meet the train on the platform and will issue you with a fine. The old trains in Sydney just simply don’t have the ability for passengers to override the doors.
Makes no sense if there's a genuine emergency. What if the train has a fire onboard and passengers need to open the doors? Are they supposed to wait for a confirmation that might never come?
It is a dramatic reconstruction and will not be accurate, he was probably making the same call at the same time, but the video only needed to show one caller to end the drama.
Chances that he might of communicated that but then again I also look at the actions of the one passenger who decided to self evacuate the train because he felt that what he needed to do was important than his safety
This is basically the fault of that impatient fuck who forces the doors open. As you could hear, that caused that whole line to be blocked and probably more delays, what he did was dangerous and very selfish. However, I don't see why the train couldn't have been allowed to move into that station. Even if the overlap was blocked I'm pretty sure permissive working allows that. Anyway, I actually quite like this film - good production and realism.
GraphiteProjekt I totally agree and it's dangerous and a safety issues as no passengers can leave an electrified train they have to wait until the power is turned off and it's tested to make sure it's off it's the train crews job to keep passengers safe and informed of the delay too
Bruh, irrational passengers annoy the hell out of me, alot of the time they think the trains are magic and move whenever they want it to despite the fact that their are rules and regulations the driver has to follow, i.e not passing red signals etc. Like youd fully just not try to empathise with staff and drivers who are trying their best to inform you .But nah your just pissed because nothings going your way, so you'll make matters worse and put people In danger
Paying the highest fares in Europe to companies that don't maintain their trains and costcut to the point of getting rid of essential staff. We really won with privatisation!
I still think and the UK is lucky to have a rail network unlike where I live nothing like any passenger trains, people forget to that airlines probably have as many delays to, impatient people hard to deal with. In all my time flying to the UK i had only one 4 hour delay at HR waiting to fly to South Africa I love using the network in the UK alright you can get problems but thats life and traffic jams for get it
then you have double the amount of staff sitting around doing nothing for 3 hours! LOL and seriuosly what is a guard going to do to prevent people from self-evacuating?
@@brianlacroix822 plus the 465s are block ended units so you can’t walk from one end to another if 2 units are coupled together. Normally guards are in the back cab so what could he of done 😂
These videos are made by the UK rail industry as training & learning materials, whilst dramatising a real event, train crew, signallers, control staff & station staff across the country see and discuss how to learn from incidents like this. It's not hard to see the difference good announcements make to passenger happiness for instance and should the driver have made an emergency call to have the power shut off before the platform staff did, perhaps they both did. For those that did not realise the 3rd rail, not used by the train wheels, carries enough electricity to kill all of those walkers without tripping the circuit breakers.
6:25 The signaller and drivers should have communicated in order to for the signaller to provide regular updates to the drivers who could then pass that onto passengers. If that happened (which would have been the proper procedure) then this would not have happened.
gee so it's like if they invested on a good network operation control and good ground staff and had hardline communication between the two the delay would have been 30-60 minutes instead of 120 minutes which pissed pax off so they self-evacuated as they should have which then doubled the disruption to 240 minutes instead of 30 like in rest of world or 5 in singapore. in case anyone wondering why bad gets REALLY bad
A guard on a train would have made no difference to a DOO situation with nlneless you had. Had 1 guards per. Coach who had the power to restrain passengers.
What would have made a difference is an emergency door release override like we have on our trains in Sydney. In Sydney the Guard is responsible for managing this emergency feature since the driver can’t really liaise with passengers if this feature is operated while the train is in motion, the drivers focus is the safe movement of the train. The Guard’s role is passenger safety.
Why didn't the siggy have him into the platform so he could detrain the passengers? If the self-evactuated passengers could see the station he couldn't have been that far off
I'm sorry but contextually, I don't see how a guard would of prevented the passengers from disembarking on to the lines without physical restraint. Is restraint was used (which it shouldn't), the police would also need to get involved but won't untill they can get to the train but they won't approach the train until the power is turned off on the lines.
Actually as much as I don't often stick up for the authorities, restraint would have been fully justified in law and the Police would NOT need to get involved unless the conductor planned on making a citizen's arrest. The conductor can only do this if they witness an indictable offence, they cannot do this for trespass on the railway as it is not an indictable offence.
It is an indictable offence to endanger safety on the railway but I doubt that the passenger would be guilty of that offence simply by opening the door and jumping onto the track.
At the very least, he endangered his own safety, as well as exposing others to the danger of falling out of the train by opening the door. There could also be charges of disobeying the orders of the train driver, making a false alarm, and incitement to imminent lawless action (commonly called riot). But, in the larger sense, that's all beside the point: A guard on the train could have reassured passengers, calmed them, and helped people see reason. If nothing else, he could have kept people informed face to face. Drivers are trained never to pass a signal at danger without authorization, no matter what the circumstance. I agree with that, but, in this case, I think public safety would have necessitated his proceeding to the platform in order to prevent the situation from escalating. The move could have been made safely, at walking speed. An emergency call to the dispatcher could have provided him the authority he needed, authority I'd argue the dispatcher should have given in the first place.
That is a fair point. The guard would be fully justified in restraining passengers if neccessary to prevent them from committing any criminal offence (summary only or indictable). It is a criminal offence (under railway bylaws) to use the emergency door release lever without reasonable excuse so the passenger who did that would have been guilty of that offence in real life. This can be done without the Police having to attend.
The law states that it is the train company's responsibility to report this situation to Network Rail and it is their responsibility to shut off the power. You can blame Parliament for that!
Having a guard would've certainly helped but I don't think it would've stopped that bloke opening the doors. Not as if a guard can physically stop him. If he'd been kept better informed, not sure that'd have calmed him down much either. Personally think BTP should've been called by the driver once that guy started getting aggressive. Don't get me wrong though, I'm definitely against D.O.O.
At least with the old CEP stock, etc, it was simple old kit. Very rarely was there ever a complete failure with these old reliables. The new 375's, and those awful Notworker things were dreadfully complicated all-computer control things. Seeing this makes me bloody glad I am retired, as believe me, this COULD happen.
@@elizabethmh_465 Well this comment is a complete lie from start to finish. They are getting 707s not 717s, and they aren’t replacing any trains (you seriously thought they would be replacing 200 networkers?). Besides this old fart you replied to kicked the bucket 2 years ago
I just hope there was a copper greeting the intrepid walkers with lots of handcuffs. Fines of up to at least 5000 pounds for illegally opening the doors and walking along the tracks. Or, of course, 3 months imprisonment.
So the signaler stops all the trains and then a bunch of drivers nearby go ringing the signal box, whY iS tHe SiGnaL rEd??? And two hours later the passengers go mad and pull the emergency door release, and the driver is like 'What the f^^^ is going on???'
Yes driver only is the way forward thay need to man up c2c dont have as nearly as meany problems as southen the sooner southens franchise is strip from them the better
All modern trains have an onboard computer. If you couple a train with a fault on to a train that doesn’t have a fault on the fault can transfer to both units. Think about when you open a dodgy link in an email that downloads a virus onto your computer similar kind of thing.
Wait a minute , who made and posted this video. And more importantly how does this alleged incident justify the Train workers ( who continue to extort are money while debilitating people like myself who rely on the trains to get to about )Strikes . Its obvious that there are most probably simple solutions to half the problems on the trains and that most of the delays could be prevented.
cant stand when people think the train has stopped for the fun of it haha like the companys want to pay millions in fines if a train has broke down its broke down just wait nicely like a civilised person and dont ever go jumping of the trin ffs
if you do get of a train thats broken down when told not to m sorry but if you get splaterd by anoter traain or roasted alive by 1000 volts then its your own fault
Why on earth is there 1.No diagnostics on the train that can show a fault 2.No automatic failure report back to the signaller 3.No live mass fault alert amongst the network to send trains details of faults 4 No between train communication 5 No screens within the train to show passengers the condition of a fault or delay and estimated resolution times?
2, 3 not developed yet, at least in Britain. In Japan, they have 1, 3(a live alert sent from one train to stop trains in the whole network) and 5. 4 is impossible because train drivers are not supposed to do so.
@B5LHGemini2 these aren't dramas, they're safety videos produced by some professional body to educated railway workers on incidents that can occur. I imagine the information in them is being taken in part from RAIB reports, but that last part may very well be fictionalised
I like that one driver who actually went into the passenger compartment to speak to the passengers - and actually gave good announcements. The other one, the mustached one seemed useless as hell when it comes to giving passengers information.
3:59 - 4:01 *"We're being held at a red signal, I don't know why"* Wouldn't the signaller have just told this driver why the danger signal and holdup (before said driver slammed the headset back down)? Not a bright one, is he?
the director and producer of this industrial film is Fredrico Feillini's son, Pablo, and in the audio commentary on the dvd he said the rapid change in weather between shots was meant to symbolize the slow and long decline of british railways during a phase of climate consciousness. the discontinuity has subtext you're just not deep enough to see it .
yes he probably would have assaulted a guard trying to stop him, then it would be back to square one, or the guard would lock themselves in the rear cab instead, a passenger in that state wouldn't be convinced not to de-train regardless,
This could have happened even with guarded trains e.g. Southeastern mainline services. What should have happened is that the signaller's supervisor should have been called by the signaller in order to request permission to allow trains to pass the danger signals in order to stop in a station and allow passengers to leave the train. From there they could then wait for the train to be cleared and run the trains to their destination express. Passengers going to intermediate stations could be transported by bus or taxi. This would have been much better (and cheaper) than what happened in this video which was a disaster and could have easily ended in multiple fatalities!
If You Don't Have Enough Patience To Wait Until The Train Starts Moving Again, Whatever! I know It Causes Delays, but That Doesn't Mean That You Should Be Inpatient And End Up Interfering With The Doors! That's Why The Driver At 9:26 Said: PASSENGERS MUST NOT INTERFERE WITH THE DOORS! That's Why You Must #keeptheguardonthetrain
lol the point of this film is about how in mass transportation systems like railways or passenger airplanes sometimes one problem cascades into 100x other issues and sometimes you just "have one of those days". it's not about what one person could have done better or not
That was a revealing video, in a good, tho limited, way: The train controllers reacted positively and with alacarity, altho the passengers, under a leader, reacted badly, but naturally. The only possible thing which could've been done was to stay in constant contact with the passengers throughout the delay. and I'll give that a resounding maybe. But, Good Show in portraying the problem. JL
I specifically noticed that. He changed it to "when I know what the problem is" and that is not the same thing. Doesn't seem like a biggy, but absolute clarity is paramount
I remember a few years ago i went to Brixton on a SouthEastern train but the thing is, the train was 2 cars long but there was 4 trains 2 cars long so there was 8 cars but 4 trains.
This has nothing to do with the Southern Strike, why is it labelled as such. Having a guard on the train would have had no more effect on a "renegade, escaping passenger(s)" than the driver did. If the train was stopped a few 100 yards from the station, and the delay was more than an hour, which it clearly was, this train should have been moved by permission into the station by co-ordination between the signaller and its driver - how ridiculous! There are surely rules for not leaving trains standing outside stations for this length of time - there are on the Underground. What an utterly ludicrous scenario!
Underground drivers have the authority to pass red signals under such circumstances. Regular train drivers must be given permission by the signaller (or a hand signaller under the signaller's direction). The signaller should have authorized that train to proceed to the platform on sight authority, moving slowly enough to stop ahead of any obstruction. From what the signaller said, it sounds like he thought the problem would be quickly resolved, and the line controller didn't want to authorize permissive working for that reason. A guard could have spoken to the passengers face to face, perhaps even defusing the situation. Studies show that people behave in a more orderly and less antisocial fashion when in the presence of a figure of even modest authority.
9:30 Incorrect procedure, the driver should have hit the red button immediately and informed the signaller what happened. Then only once this has been done, he can then make passenger announcements. If the driver did not call this incident in and had a train dispatcher (i.e. a member of platform staff) not been present and promptly called it in this could have ended differently.
With a guard onboard, the driver could focus on communicating to the signaller and control whilst the guard makes regular updates the the P.A and patrols the train answering questions. The driver had so much on his plate that he didn't even ring the signaller and get the lines blocked/emergency switch off. If not for the dispatcher ringing through, there could of easily been fatalities.
Yup definitely a lot to deal with.
Jeez, London Underground must be a death trap then.... How on earth do their drivers cope? Oh my god 😱
How would the guard know what to comminicate to the passengers if the driver was the one talking to the signaller?
Thoroughly good observation. Driver only operation is a dangerous means of cutting costs.
@@ben.taylor Do not let them D.O.O.
As you can see, the driver that informed his passengers in a professional manor didn't get any passengers jumping off the train.
Good point. We can't say that it was that driver's behaviour alone that kept his passengers in check, but it certainly would have helped.
That's not how it works even if you are proffesional it just takes one person with a bit of adrenaline and frustration to act out and cause danger to their lives and others. Hope that he was nicked.
@TomSee The driver of the first Networker’s first announcement (the one informing the passengers why they had stopped) wasn’t very good, it was simply “train stopped, don’t know why”. The second Networker driver’s announcement to the passengers was much better; he provided a reason for the delay “failed train at Ashford Jn”, gave some sense of trying to fix the situation, as well as trying to empathise with the passengers “I know some of you are standing”, and he got out of the cab and went to the passenger area to try and reassure them. Now I partially agree with you that some people would open the doors regardless, but I’m sure the second driver’s better handling of the situation gave some comfort to the passengers on that train.
@@tomp6792 These videos are made by the UK rail industry as learning tools, and Thomas you have correctly identified one of the main learning points. The increased professional use of Twitter by UK rail companies was also one of the actions that came out of this issue.
Hmm, depends on many factors I would say, but keeping people well updated does help. Having been stuck on a very packed train for 30mins just outside of a station (early 2017, pre Lewisham), the fact that the driver in that situation kept reassuring and updating us probably did help to keep everyone calm and from self detraining, but after a while there's only so long that people will hold on for when there's a seemingly easy escape nearby
This was a chain of mistakes, in the first place by rule the driver of the failed train should have requested a 10 minutes fault finding time, rule book says if train fails you should request assistance immediately, but in all cases within 10 minutes. Both driver and signaller made a mistake in the first place. Signaller should have taken lead responsibility and instruct driver to report back within 10 minutes. Obviously there has been incorrect information passed on due to miscommunication as well. I agree, guard should be on each train, not even one, but at least two. Yes, driver have failed to give frequent information, but tbf he didn’t have any. Where he failed was obviously trying to hold passengers back and immediately making an emergency call. If assistance and fitters would have arrived within a reasonable time this all wouldn’t have happened. Maybe back in the day they didn’t have a timescale, only implemented it after these kind of incidents occurring.
That was not a mistake
"So the driver's 5 minutes or a real 5 minutes?!?!" lol
Yes, it's like when someone tells you they'll "just be two ticks". How long is a tick?
@@Clivestravelandtrains Twice the length of a half-tick, but shorter than a quarter-tock. 😂
Given the timestamps it was definitely much longer than 5 minutes.
Well, in Sydney, Australia on the new trains that have passenger emergency door releases, the guard has an override button that allows the guard to stop passengers opening the doors outside of a legitimate emergency. The doors will only open if the guard doesn’t override it within the allocated time, which is significant enough. The automatic response when the alarm goes off is to override the passengers attempt, establish contact with the passenger and then decide if it is required to allow passengers to use the emergency feature. When a passenger attempts to open one of these doors the intercom automatically opens up where the guard can speak directly to that passenger and the CCTV cameras automatically switch to show the guard the passenger so the guard can see what is happening. Misuse of emergency equipment carries heavy fines, and if the guard can lock you in the train during the delay and you are a persistently difficult passenger like this, you will find the police have been sent to meet the train on the platform and will issue you with a fine. The old trains in Sydney just simply don’t have the ability for passengers to override the doors.
Thanks for the detail. Very interesting.
Still a bit silly, what if the emergency requires a quick evacuation?
Makes no sense if there's a genuine emergency. What if the train has a fire onboard and passengers need to open the doors? Are they supposed to wait for a confirmation that might never come?
Just as well we don't live in Nazi Australia then.
Doesn’t really work over here when we’ve barely got any guards left 😂
So why didn't the driver call in to say that there passengers on the track instead of waiting for the train dispatcher to do it?
Because he forgot the correct procedures in the heat of the moment. (Edit: I might be wrong)
@@Kopend09 Actually I think you are right.
It is a dramatic reconstruction and will not be accurate, he was probably making the same call at the same time, but the video only needed to show one caller to end the drama.
He was waiting to see which one of the massive roasters were going to get fried first.
Chances that he might of communicated that but then again I also look at the actions of the one passenger who decided to self evacuate the train because he felt that what he needed to do was important than his safety
This is basically the fault of that impatient fuck who forces the doors open. As you could hear, that caused that whole line to be blocked and probably more delays, what he did was dangerous and very selfish. However, I don't see why the train couldn't have been allowed to move into that station. Even if the overlap was blocked I'm pretty sure permissive working allows that. Anyway, I actually quite like this film - good production and realism.
Well if you were stuck on a crowded train for nearly 3 hours would you really just sit there bored out your brains like he was?
GraphiteProjekt I totally agree and it's dangerous and a safety issues as no passengers can leave an electrified train they have to wait until the power is turned off and it's tested to make sure it's off it's the train crews job to keep passengers safe and informed of the delay too
People like him really need to be made to watch all track safety videos from the past 50 years
@@charlieghevans8939 in the intervening years since your comment i actually have been in a train delayed for at least 5 hours. Yes i sat there boredly
@@charlieghevans8939 or would you get out of the train and maybe got electrocuted instead?
@4:10 the driver of 2N53 used the DRA. He checked his rulebook.
and that kids is how you tie your shoes
@LucidDaniel because the block system of signal covered past that station
@LucidDaniel yeah that is another option honestly I would contact the signaler and wait for the go ahead
i love this just how passengers behave
Fucking entitled. No critical thinking skills. Ok mate yeah, I'll pass a red signal because of how important your time is compared to peoples lives.
Bruh, irrational passengers annoy the hell out of me, alot of the time they think the trains are magic and move whenever they want it to despite the fact that their are rules and regulations the driver has to follow, i.e not passing red signals etc. Like youd fully just not try to empathise with staff and drivers who are trying their best to inform you .But nah your just pissed because nothings going your way, so you'll make matters worse and put people In danger
Perhaps southeast should learn their own lessons!
Like the incident at Lewisham
@LondonTransportMaster People jumped off the train and walked onto live electrified tracks
I know that a problem to Southeastern
I'm watching this exactly 2 years later.
9:30 He should have informed the signaller!
10:00 Thank god the train dispatcher was present!
How you know he didn’t?
Paying the highest fares in Europe to companies that don't maintain their trains and costcut to the point of getting rid of essential staff. We really won with privatisation!
I still think and the UK is lucky to have a rail network unlike where I live nothing like any passenger trains, people forget to that airlines probably have as many delays to, impatient people hard to deal with. In all my time flying to the UK i had only one 4 hour delay at HR waiting to fly to South Africa I love using the network in the UK alright you can get problems but thats life and traffic jams for get it
Keep the guard on the train keep the train safe
Agreed! But then again had the driver followed his procedures properly this would not have happened!
then you have double the amount of staff sitting around doing nothing for 3 hours! LOL and seriuosly what is a guard going to do to prevent people from self-evacuating?
@@brianlacroix822 plus the 465s are block ended units so you can’t walk from one end to another if 2 units are coupled together. Normally guards are in the back cab so what could he of done 😂
Do not let them D.O.O
These videos are made by the UK rail industry as training & learning materials, whilst dramatising a real event, train crew, signallers, control staff & station staff across the country see and discuss how to learn from incidents like this. It's not hard to see the difference good announcements make to passenger happiness for instance and should the driver have made an emergency call to have the power shut off before the platform staff did, perhaps they both did. For those that did not realise the 3rd rail, not used by the train wheels, carries enough electricity to kill all of those walkers without tripping the circuit breakers.
Can 750V really kill you?
@@TheArkamedBat Yes, without safety protection, household 220v can kill you too.
@@TheArkamedBatyes, it absolutely can
3:49 I think the Driver was frustrated!
6:25 The signaller and drivers should have communicated in order to for the signaller to provide regular updates to the drivers who could then pass that onto passengers. If that happened (which would have been the proper procedure) then this would not have happened.
You finally got a job on the railway? How you know what the proper procedure is?
9:48 I do not know if self evacuation would be a good idea in that situation. But I would not jump out since the power in the 3rd rails is still on
The rails close together are the powered ones
Some of the people are standing centimeters from the third rail
@@rookaloot4736 I know that
@@Ron_TTE I said that a year ago...
loll@@rookaloot4736
This causes severe delays or suspension on a Southeastern
That man who jumped onto the tracks should be charged a railway trespass fine.
Not to mention he's liable to prosecution for tampering with an EED
gee so it's like if they invested on a good network operation control and good ground staff and had hardline communication between the two the delay would have been 30-60 minutes instead of 120 minutes which pissed pax off so they self-evacuated as they should have which then doubled the disruption to 240 minutes instead of 30 like in rest of world or 5 in singapore. in case anyone wondering why bad gets REALLY bad
Is That Where Near Ashford International
A guard on a train would have made no difference to a DOO situation with nlneless you had. Had 1 guards per. Coach who had the power to restrain passengers.
What would have made a difference is an emergency door release override like we have on our trains in Sydney. In Sydney the Guard is responsible for managing this emergency feature since the driver can’t really liaise with passengers if this feature is operated while the train is in motion, the drivers focus is the safe movement of the train. The Guard’s role is passenger safety.
@@rhyceg Good idea but what if the person who operated it and all the train crew become incapacitated due to a further emergency?
Why didn't the siggy have him into the platform so he could detrain the passengers? If the self-evactuated passengers could see the station he couldn't have been that far off
Very good video, thrilling too!
you don't get out much
7:00 The driver's lost it!
Ikr
Keep guard on train for any major issue
"you will be going no where"
Those passengers doesn't think of their safety, do they?
BEUTIFUL STAGED VIDEO
Me forgetting to turn my direction switch to forward in train sim world:
I'm sorry but contextually, I don't see how a guard would of prevented the passengers from disembarking on to the lines without physical restraint.
Is restraint was used (which it shouldn't), the police would also need to get involved but won't untill they can get to the train but they won't approach the train until the power is turned off on the lines.
Actually as much as I don't often stick up for the authorities, restraint would have been fully justified in law and the Police would NOT need to get involved unless the conductor planned on making a citizen's arrest. The conductor can only do this if they witness an indictable offence, they cannot do this for trespass on the railway as it is not an indictable offence.
Isn't it a felony to endanger the public safety by interfering with a railway?
It is an indictable offence to endanger safety on the railway but I doubt that the passenger would be guilty of that offence simply by opening the door and jumping onto the track.
At the very least, he endangered his own safety, as well as exposing others to the danger of falling out of the train by opening the door. There could also be charges of disobeying the orders of the train driver, making a false alarm, and incitement to imminent lawless action (commonly called riot).
But, in the larger sense, that's all beside the point: A guard on the train could have reassured passengers, calmed them, and helped people see reason. If nothing else, he could have kept people informed face to face.
Drivers are trained never to pass a signal at danger without authorization, no matter what the circumstance. I agree with that, but, in this case, I think public safety would have necessitated his proceeding to the platform in order to prevent the situation from escalating. The move could have been made safely, at walking speed. An emergency call to the dispatcher could have provided him the authority he needed, authority I'd argue the dispatcher should have given in the first place.
That is a fair point. The guard would be fully justified in restraining passengers if neccessary to prevent them from committing any criminal offence (summary only or indictable). It is a criminal offence (under railway bylaws) to use the emergency door release lever without reasonable excuse so the passenger who did that would have been guilty of that offence in real life. This can be done without the Police having to attend.
for the ones that stayed in the train 2 hours and did not support it in romania some passengers had to stay in an train about 38 hours
I can't believe the passenger got out of the train but 375 fail for more than a hour.
Was that a live third rail? Oh god
750 Volt DC Third rail supply lucky it wasn't on a route with the Overhead sup!y of 25 thousand voltage
4:12 He is so posh
Bruh it’s probably no more fuel ⛽️ or something else
If passengers are stupid enough to get off the train, then surely the power needs to be left on. more for the Darwin Awards.
The law states that it is the train company's responsibility to report this situation to Network Rail and it is their responsibility to shut off the power. You can blame Parliament for that!
OK thanks.
@@Kopend09 True!
Probably the junction had some things on the tracks that made all of the trains at Ashford west junction not move and apply the brakes
Is that it? Where's the electrocutions? What an anticlimax.
Shouldn't the platform staff member (at Sundridge Park) have used the electrification direct phone rather than calling the control centre?
Train dispatcher at lowden park looks like Jonathan ross
2:25 Idiot signaller. He put the signal to danger in the driver's face. He is only supposed to do that in an emergency.
Look like the train passing the overlap knocking down the signal to me
Rage meter: rising
10:00 Why does the dispatcher call the signaller? I thought those phones had a dialing pad to call 999 or the ECO.
What would the police be able to do to get the conductor rails isolated?
@@dkbmaestrorules They would have to contact the BTP, who would then contact Network Rail control. Who would in turn notify the signaller and ECO.
I'm not 100% sure, but I know that most railway telephones do NOT have a keypad
so that phone may have been specifically set up to call the signaller
Because the lines need blocking, so the signaller will do this and get a switch off.
Having a guard would've certainly helped but I don't think it would've stopped that bloke opening the doors. Not as if a guard can physically stop him. If he'd been kept better informed, not sure that'd have calmed him down much either. Personally think BTP should've been called by the driver once that guy started getting aggressive.
Don't get me wrong though, I'm definitely against D.O.O.
I didn’t understand what happened but the person who made this video can you tell me what happened?
At least with the old CEP stock, etc, it was simple old kit. Very rarely was there ever a complete failure with these old reliables. The new 375's, and those awful Notworker things were dreadfully complicated all-computer control things. Seeing this makes me bloody glad I am retired, as believe me, this COULD happen.
@@elizabethmh_465 Well this comment is a complete lie from start to finish. They are getting 707s not 717s, and they aren’t replacing any trains (you seriously thought they would be replacing 200 networkers?). Besides this old fart you replied to kicked the bucket 2 years ago
@@elizabethmh_465so you are seriously trying to make be believe 30 707s are replacing 190 networkers? I’m not stupid
I just hope there was a copper greeting the intrepid walkers with lots of handcuffs. Fines of up to at least 5000 pounds for illegally opening the doors and walking along the tracks. Or, of course, 3 months imprisonment.
Only that aggressive guy who opened the doors should have been fined
Very simular to the lewisham strandings in 2018
It’s like a… action movie
THEY WALKED ON THRID RAIL
WHY DIDN'T HE GET ELECTRICUTED THE BIG MOUTH SOFT SHANDY DRINKING SOUTHERNER?
So the signaler stops all the trains and then a bunch of drivers nearby go ringing the signal box, whY iS tHe SiGnaL rEd???
And two hours later the passengers go mad and pull the emergency door release, and the driver is like 'What the f^^^ is going on???'
Well those passengers couldn’t wait any longer so they decided to avoid touching the tracks and go on one side
Yes driver only is the way forward thay need to man up c2c dont have as nearly as meany problems as southen the sooner southens franchise is strip from them the better
£100 for each passenger getting off the train… Southeastern is rich and scared right now.
How can a fault transfer from one train to another
Quite easily if it's electrical.
All modern trains have an onboard computer. If you couple a train with a fault on to a train that doesn’t have a fault on the fault can transfer to both units. Think about when you open a dodgy link in an email that downloads a virus onto your computer similar kind of thing.
@@robertbowman3135 Even in the olden days before computers this could obviously happen.
Air pressure problem?
@@robertbowman3135 Not really true...There are some older trains which don't have computers...
I hate red signals
Higher yes and he can't grab hi
the only difference a guard would have done was been assaulted, passengers like that that lack the patience should be fined.
7:55 Did the driver have authority to leave his cab?
Potter's Police, Security and Railway videos If the driver deemed it safe and called for to leave the cab he would have permission to leave the cab
Don’t need a guard
Good old ashford
Sad that all of these had to be filmed on a 465/1 and /0 with a disgusting Hitachi Motor
hitachi is probably one of the best motors out there lol
I’ll be honest with you Metro Cammell is bad
@@fbl.editz6 What's that supposed to mean lol
Wait a minute , who made and posted this video. And more importantly how does this alleged incident justify the Train workers ( who continue to extort are money while debilitating people like myself who rely on the trains to get to about )Strikes . Its obvious that there are most probably simple solutions to half the problems on the trains and that most of the delays could be prevented.
The RSSB made this video, The Passenger Salute posted it.
Did they go oof?
No real incident to back this for most of this one
cant stand when people think the train has stopped for the fun of it haha like the companys want to pay millions in fines if a train has broke down its broke down just wait nicely like a civilised person and dont ever go jumping of the trin ffs
if you do get of a train thats broken down when told not to m sorry but if you get splaterd by anoter traain or roasted alive by 1000 volts then its your own fault
The passengers got off the train and walked to London, they found that London had gone back 500 years thanks to the Mayor , a Mr Khan
they only walked to the next stop,Lowden park
...
Why on earth is there
1.No diagnostics on the train that can show a fault
2.No automatic failure report back to the signaller
3.No live mass fault alert amongst the network to send trains details of faults
4 No between train communication
5 No screens within the train to show passengers the condition of a fault or delay and estimated resolution times?
Andy B cos its Southern Rail, they couldn't find a needle in a pile of crap
It's not southern
2, 3 not developed yet, at least in Britain. In Japan, they have 1, 3(a live alert sent from one train to stop trains in the whole network) and 5. 4 is impossible because train drivers are not supposed to do so.
Andy B oo
Old Rolling stock not fitted with that.
I don't see any reason why 465195 couldn't be held at the station, the signal block was clear.
Yeah that’s true… Probably a issue with the signalling (To make the Drama a bit more realistic)
Especially when the signaller was told to have as many trains stopped in a station as he can
@B5LHGemini2 these aren't dramas, they're safety videos produced by some professional body to educated railway workers on incidents that can occur. I imagine the information in them is being taken in part from RAIB reports, but that last part may very well be fictionalised
I like that one driver who actually went into the passenger compartment to speak to the passengers - and actually gave good announcements. The other one, the mustached one seemed useless as hell when it comes to giving passengers information.
Drivers are drivers though
3:59 - 4:01 *"We're being held at a red signal, I don't know why"*
Wouldn't the signaller have just told this driver why the danger signal and holdup (before said driver slammed the headset back down)? Not a bright one, is he?
So the weather outside the trains is cold and slightly foggy, but it's a warm sunny day inside the trains?
Looks like a continuity issue to me!
Some sort of greenhouse effect probably
the director and producer of this industrial film is Fredrico Feillini's son, Pablo, and in the audio commentary on the dvd he said the rapid change in weather between shots was meant to symbolize the slow and long decline of british railways during a phase of climate consciousness. the discontinuity has subtext you're just not deep enough to see it .
6:30 I genuinely believe that this is half of the problem on this train.
Exactly
i dunno man sit wait for 3 hours or self evacuate after 1 i'm with angry dude.
yes he probably would have assaulted a guard trying to stop him, then it would be back to square one, or the guard would lock themselves in the rear cab instead, a passenger in that state wouldn't be convinced not to de-train regardless,
@@brianlacroix822 sounds good to step on the live 3rd rail
@@brianlacroix822getting aggressive is not going to make the train move any quicker
This could have happened even with guarded trains e.g. Southeastern mainline services. What should have happened is that the signaller's supervisor should have been called by the signaller in order to request permission to allow trains to pass the danger signals in order to stop in a station and allow passengers to leave the train. From there they could then wait for the train to be cleared and run the trains to their destination express. Passengers going to intermediate stations could be transported by bus or taxi. This would have been much better (and cheaper) than what happened in this video which was a disaster and could have easily ended in multiple fatalities!
If You Don't Have Enough Patience To Wait Until The Train Starts Moving Again, Whatever! I know It Causes Delays, but That Doesn't Mean That You Should Be Inpatient And End Up Interfering With The Doors! That's Why The Driver At 9:26 Said: PASSENGERS MUST NOT INTERFERE WITH THE DOORS! That's Why You Must #keeptheguardonthetrain
the thing is, the train that had people jumping off was able to be cleared into the station ahead, easily avoidable by the signaller.
lol the point of this film is about how in mass transportation systems like railways or passenger airplanes sometimes one problem cascades into 100x other issues and sometimes you just "have one of those days". it's not about what one person could have done better or not
@@brianlacroix822I think the point is to highlights the increased dangers of Driver Only Operated trains.
it should've been southern rail haha
Oh hi tom
@@joethetrainphotographerink7018 alright boii
@@ThomasFrench2002 hi
@@joethetrainphotographerink7018 what u doing Saturday wanna watch trains at dover mate
@@ThomasFrench2002 I was planning to becouse there's a railtour and freight trains through dover so I'll definitely be there
That was a revealing video, in a good, tho limited, way: The train controllers reacted positively and with alacarity, altho the passengers, under a leader, reacted badly, but naturally. The only possible thing which could've been done was to stay in constant contact with the passengers throughout the delay. and I'll give that a resounding maybe. But, Good Show in portraying the problem. JL
1:20 Incorrect procedure. He should have said "I will call you back as soon as I have finished my inspection. Driver out."
I specifically noticed that. He changed it to "when I know what the problem is" and that is not the same thing. Doesn't seem like a biggy, but absolute clarity is paramount
I remember a few years ago i went to Brixton on a SouthEastern train but the thing is, the train was 2 cars long but there was 4 trains 2 cars long so there was 8 cars but 4 trains.
4:26 Cheery lot that
oi! i agree mate! good blokes. cheerio i'm going to drink some tea and eat curry
This has nothing to do with the Southern Strike, why is it labelled as such. Having a guard on the train would have had no more effect on a "renegade, escaping passenger(s)" than the driver did. If the train was stopped a few 100 yards from the station, and the delay was more than an hour, which it clearly was, this train should have been moved by permission into the station by co-ordination between the signaller and its driver - how ridiculous! There are surely rules for not leaving trains standing outside stations for this length of time - there are on the Underground. What an utterly ludicrous scenario!
Underground drivers have the authority to pass red signals under such circumstances. Regular train drivers must be given permission by the signaller (or a hand signaller under the signaller's direction). The signaller should have authorized that train to proceed to the platform on sight authority, moving slowly enough to stop ahead of any obstruction. From what the signaller said, it sounds like he thought the problem would be quickly resolved, and the line controller didn't want to authorize permissive working for that reason.
A guard could have spoken to the passengers face to face, perhaps even defusing the situation. Studies show that people behave in a more orderly and less antisocial fashion when in the presence of a figure of even modest authority.
The driver should have reported the people on the track. People could have lost their lives to his lack of action. Shame on him.
They can't scoot up to the next platform, or get permission to back to the previous, to let people not be hostages of a delay?
I brand this useless. I use southeastern and southern all the time. I meant southeastern useless
9:30 Incorrect procedure, the driver should have hit the red button immediately and informed the signaller what happened. Then only once this has been done, he can then make passenger announcements. If the driver did not call this incident in and had a train dispatcher (i.e. a member of platform staff) not been present and promptly called it in this could have ended differently.
465195 could have an authorisation to proceed into the platform.
This is where Customer Service Assistants should come in to help
9:47 these passengers will be reported for trespassing
When was this
Lol this is very old y’all should see the SE lines now.
Fun facts the 465 was actually waiting outside of sundridge park station which is actually nowhere ashford lol
7:50 I thought the signaller didn't have an ETA for the fitters! Also why is the driver out of his cab?
9:51 is that Sundridge Park?
Matthew Taylor Yes it is. Remember it from an Old railtrack. Spad video
Yes
It should of been East Midlands trains 😂😂and southern
Nah shut up EMT is cool
@@MatStuff also they have Guards,