Why Turrets are Hot Garbage - Fixed v Gimbaled v Turreted
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- In this Elite Dangerous video from EDTutorials by Exigeous we look at why turrets are hot garbage in Elite Dangerous so we can understand the differences between fixed, gimbaled and turreted weapons/hardpoints. As there is a huge damage difference between fixed, gimbaled and turreted it's pretty easy to see that turrets are, in fact, hot garbage.
In this video we look at why turrets should virtually never be used for primary damage, instead being used primarily for applying an experimental effect when engineered. Unengineered the only good reasons to use them for pirmary damage would be multicrew, Anti-Xeno non-Guardian weapons or if you are physically disabled.
▶️References
Engineering Explained: Plasma Accelerators
• Engineering Explained:...
▶️Disabled Gamer Jerry Farrs Lands Using Only His Voice
• Disabled Gamer Jerry F...
▶️ALL Charts
imgur.com/gallery/geGg9Kv
▶️Google Sheet with all Data
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
00:00 Intro
00:35 Fixed v Gimbal v Turret
02:13 Why Turrets are Hot Garbage
03:49 Why Turrets Suck
04:43 Using Gimbals & Fixed
06:11 Conclusion
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NOTE: I want to be clear that while much of this is subjective and you may enjoy turrets simply for fun my goal was to ensure everyone understands the huge drawbacks when using turrets as your primary damage source. As for my joke about being disabled I spoke with Jerry before including that and he thought it was great so I hope you do too. I'd never make fun of anyone with a disability as here I'm intending to make fun of these weapons.
facts
I don't even think that it was so bad. My guess would be, if I were disabled, I would actually have a hard time as well to face my target only with voice-commands. So, it's a realistic possibility why you would use turrets, so I think it's totally ok.
Oh, absolutely - in fact I went to do combat with him the first time he ever fired a weapon, so I could keep a regen beam on him to make sure he stayed alive (he had no engineering at all then). So I was even the one to tell him to use turrets at the time.
It´s humor mate. There will be always offended people by the slightest thing, because is the meaning of their existence, so the offended by everything know where the door is.
Never apologize for humor sir even if it is in poor taste.
And that wasn’t even close to poor taste .
Late but relevant.
"Some people berate me for having turrets on my ship, but it's ok, those people are dead now." - The Pilot
That made me laugh.
Which video is this?
@MarshalCoffee thanks
agreed. totally correct even today 2 years later..
Ships like the Anaconda need turrets because of the low maneuverability - but skilled pilots kick their ass in a sidewinder with chaff..!
Not sure i would use only fixed weapons for anything serious (i need more practice), but i do think it provides a fun challenge - and especially in a ship like the Imperial Eagle 👍
(I only do PVE btw)
This rule doesn't apply to the Type 10 though, which is a flying fortress with minimal turn rate and uses modded turrets to create an 360° death zone for attackers.
I thought the same thing lol
I run all gimballs on my bounty hunting/CZ Type10 and it works great.
Just make sure to engineer your thrusters, and you can't go wrong with an SLF either.
Which is what I use.
AFK is better than Gimballed xD
I agree
“Hot garbage”
Same can be said about my aim
Yeah, the good news is your aim can improve through practice - turrets can't ;-)
Yeah honestly I feel like the tutorial I'm really missing in all of TH-cam is how to set up your mouse correctly for the best aiming. Because I find like you know I'm not turning fast enough and then when I'm aiming it's too sensitive and I can't quite Get It On Target so I don't know maybe I should just lower sensitivity overall I guess
but yeah I don't really understand the dead zone setting and all of the mouse settings
@@gobbledygook5000 first. Se your mouse to yaw, then your left and right keys to roll. Makes flying and movement easy
@@SirLucem I did that within the first thirty minutes
pretend the enermy ship is a blue circle so you need to keep the circle in front to escaped while thinking of that angry time you didnt get to escape..... think payback revenge! an NPC with a bounty will most likely try rob a minner or trader it feels great to take pirates out.
I think using turrets on the small slots on something like an anaconda is advantageous specifically for keeping a small amount of damage on things like eagles and sidewinders that will otherwise spend a lot of time in your blind spots
as a low vision gamer, I would like to thank you for validating the reason I use turreted weaponry. I use them for target tracking. It's difficult for me to follow my targets due to my vision, so I follow the bright flashing lasers that a pair of class 1 pulse lasers provide me with. They're like my little target painters. I don't expect them to do damage, let alone hit the target, I expect them to show me where my target is :)
Great additional use of them - again, so long as you aren't relying on them as a primary damage source, but for something secondary they can work great - as in this case. I hope you're running a good experimental on them, like corrosive, emissive, scramble, etc.
I do the same with some turreted Class 1 Beams on my Corvette :D. I was determined to git gud and stuck some big fixed guns on it and then discovered that in a CZ I could often not tell what the hell I was supposed to be shooting at :lol:. Oh and I just stuck a couple of Turreted Frags on it because I usually wasn't fast enough to get off a shot with the Gimballed ones I had when the little so-and-so's in CZ's jousted me :p. We shall see how they work out once the engineering is done :).
this makes me think of a jedi using the force to see. cool af.
I do this on my Anaconda because I suck at using the radar :)
(Plus I think turrets are perfectly viable on my PvE conda. I like the constant damage even when the target is behind me. The conda has the turning of a beached whale, especially with 4pips to weapons and 2 to shields. I am running 1 huge gimballed multi [with corrosive shells], 3 large turreted beams, 2 engineered medium seeker missile racks, and 2 small gimballed pulse)
This, whilst I can still see ok, I struggle like fuck with reading the radar and aligning with a target, the targeting reticle pinging back into the center of the screen always gives me a good indication of which direction I need to be heading in for the next volley. I keep one small turreted weapon on all my craft for this reason. Well until I work out how the radar thing works!
Thats a good tip with the gimbal to untagged and it goes fixed. Did not know that. Thanx.. ✌👌
Yeah, pretty key when you're using gimbals against NPCs who chaff constantly.
☝️☝️did not know that! Great tip Cmdr Exigeous and thanks 👍🏼👍🏼
@@Exigeous ..and against people who chaff constantly.
Thanks for the tip, I've been playing for ages and never knew that. Great videos.
@@Exigeous Using missiles to target chaff launchers works well against NPCs. I recommend pack hounds though just in case they also pack point deffence.
I feel using turrets in conflict zones for extra tagging purposes should have been mentioned.
Yeah, that wouldn't have been terrible, although I still feel it's very clear that's not effective - but pinned so others will see it.
True, but I mainly use fighters for that. (More damage and WAY more range)
@@ethandowdy2892 absolutely, at least on fighter capable ships
@@MrAlbinocreeper (I mainly fly fighter-capable ships) I also like to use multi-crew. But only with fighters.
It was mentioned. About the corvette having one small turret with experimental effects on it.
You don’t mention Damage per Energy at all in the entire vid. A turreted weapon has about 25% higher DPE than a gimballed one. If you emptied your WEP on a target using all gimbals, you would do LESS total damage than if you had all turrets.
There are PROS and CONS to using turrets. I don’t think you should completely write them off. I use two on my Cutter, on the wings, and they’re great for applying debuffs. They also have a role in some setups where you can’t fit a hardpoint into one of your 2 triggers (ex: Chieftain with 2 Large Plasmas and 3 Small Railguns. That Medium hardpoint all alone at the bottom of the ship makes a good turret if you ask me).
He said that they are trash for primary damage.
@@brianlam5847 Not is you get enough sustained ToT that you wouldn't get due to flying something that's not agile.
@@valravnsshadow9422 even if, tracking is so slow that I get more tot with FIXED weapons, even on a cutter. Unless it is with multicrew gunners, Turrets are worse gimbals with worse tracking.
exactly. dpe is also important as turrets require the least amount of energy
@@brianlam5847 oh cmon, don't be exaggerating. You're telling me you get more time on target in a cutter vs FDL, with fixed, because turrets track that slowly? I don't buy it.
You didn't do any hard analysis on time on target. While I know this varies massively depending on the ships involved and the pilots, it's impossible to reach a firm conclusion on this topic without such data.
using turrets gives you less tot due to the slow tracking
@@brianlam5847 in u miss gimballed 80% of time?
@@old-fashioned1492 no, turrets have such slow tracking that gimbals deal more damage AND have better time on target. Turrets are only good with multicrew since chaff and tracking speed is buffed.
I like turrets because they make me feel like I’m piloting a big ship. I don’t want to dogfight a ship that’s 10 times smaller than me, i like fitting the Anaconda with only Turrets and watching them do there job. Also the limiting factor for me is energy. So as Long as the Energy efficiency is equally good it should not make a difference right?
The energy debate is essentially the tradeoff between burst and sustain. If you favor sustain, in the end turrets will be your jam - however, the fight will drag on considerably longer.
It's also important to note that non-laser turrets do not benefit from this at all.
@Platius Cyndar if you don’t do competitive PvP it does not really matter anyway. In a fully engineered ship you are almost invincible. It’s more about the fun of just broadsiding and not caring what the enemy is doing and hitting them anyway. I like to do Multicrew with friends and then you need turrets anyway. All Packhounds is also very fun in Multicrew. Just pure devastation in every direction.
apparently turrets are actually MORE energy efficient than gimballed.
@@MassDefibrillator They are, generally. Most lasers and multicannons have better DPE.
Yeah it feels good riding a ship with turrets that do the job for you and just watch. I'd like if there were some kinda drones you could release and they'd fight for you that would be cool. Yeah I'm lazy
"They can also be used for the roughly 7 or 8 players who actually use multicrew" 🤣🤣🤣
I remember when I started playing and me and my buddy saw that option and Googled what it did and were like... so wait... one of us just sits and watches the other player play the game?
I do actually run a mostly-turret Anaconda that's set up as a mini-carrier. She runs 5 beam turrets (the other guns being 2 x rails and a fixed huge beam laser) and a 2-place SLF bay ... does reasonably well, actually.
I had a ridiculously fun time mulicrewing with my friends fighting thargoids. I dont theink the remote release flak launcher has any dps drawbacks from being turreted, and I wanted someone to deal with the swarms while i focus on the interceptors.
If u r in VR just watching is great option btw
If your buddy has big ship and you’re brand new, you do combat ops on their ship to not get slaughtered in your garbage newb ship.
Or you could... ya know... operate a fighter. Or use turrets. Or do death warrent scanning...
I feel special now, because I'm one of the eight people using multicrew with my friends. I always got always one turret on my multicrew capable non-exploration ships.
I'm genuinely curious, how much do you use it? Given the payouts are atrocious, it's buggy as hell (I crash constantly due to it) and I personally don't enjoy it I'm curious your thoughts.
@@Exigeous Make it 9 people... I use MC to help out friends when starting out.. I will grab a wing mission.. they join me on my ship to complete said mission.. I then kick them off my ship and share the mission with them .. and then turn the mission in.. this is pretty helpful since they don't have to worry about re-buy cost and can get more practice in SLF.. Combat Zone wing missions are the best for this method as some can pay out like 50mil and that's a huge help for a starting pilot. sadly MC is pretty hit or miss.. some times zero connection issues.. other times well you know MC
Same here. I use it too. While it is buggy as hell its also one of the really enjoyable ways to play with friends who may not have put as much time into the game as I have.
Clearing out a Haz Rez with friends who may not have gotten to the point where they have purchased kitted out combat ships for example.
I used it when two friends were getting into the game. Now they’ve made quite a bit of cash off my back they have bought their own ships and we Wing together. For fun I wing or mc, for cash, I mine. 😩
It begs the question: Why can't you fit a weapon of the size class used on a gimballed mount - ostensibly a limited 'turret' mount already - on a full-range turret mount?
The way ED balances the weaponry, and insists this is how military technology developed in their universe, doesn't make much sense. Modern militaries have invested plenty of time and money solving these conundrums themselves - and 'gimbal-mounted' weapons as they appear in ED simply don't exist in the modern day, because of the time and research that has already been made making turrets as effective as possible specifically *because* of their mobility and versatility in engaging opponents. To insist that space-faring combat entirely disregarded and discarded all that time and energy into making turret-mounted weapons as effective as possible simply doesn't sit well with me.
This of course has no bearing on the fact that you're right - in that ED's mechanics all but punish anyone who has fallen to the same conclusions and misplaced logic that I have.
Gameplay > Realism. If they did that then nobody would ever use the other options.
@@tetragrade then only allow allow turrets to be used on big ships and make them monsters, plus change it so an npc crew member can negate chaff and make turrets pin point accurate out to the full weapon range ( 6k for long range lasers abd 7.5k for multi canons) no sing medium ship should stand a chance against a large unless in extreme circumstances. i personally would ensure to balance the game were it mine so that it would taje at least 3 well flown medium ships to take down a large one, There's too much nonsense to give a chance wgere there should not be one.
@@tetragrade Where is the gameplay in "Lol, we have two other weapon types, but they suck, use fixed" though? I never understood the whole deal with non fixed weapons not only being less efficient, less damaging, but ALSO making them suffer from the chaff spam.
@@tetragrade It should be balance > realism except the balance isn't there lol
Man I wish You had made this back when I was just starting to understand combat, I had switched to gimbals and was wondering why I didn't have the "fire at will" anymore I thought it was something I had done. Man I am so glad there are people like you and quite a few other's that are more then willing to make content to help out new comer's to the game.
Seems you just figured out the entire reason my channel exists, to help others learn the game I love. We all know how steep the learning curve is so I'm happy to help flatten it.
That’s one of my main problems with Elite Dangerous.
Tracking for gimballed and turreted weapons is nothing but a bad joke. From a realistic standpoint the only “ships” that make sense having fixed weapons are the SLFs.
For most ships turrets should be standard, but i guess Frontier wants to keep us dogfighting with fixed weapons in giant ships that absolutely dwarf a jumbo jet.
Well, technically, with inertial dampeners to compensate for pulling massive Gs in space a massive ship with big enough thrusters is as manoeuvrable as a smaller craft. thats a lot of Ifs however and I like turrets exactly for that reason, it makes bloody sense that a massive ship has turrets. But truth be told it also makes sense that less movement gun makes the more thick energy cables can be so it does make sense that gimballed and fixed weapons would be better. Its sort of fiction vs reality. Like when rocinante uses fixed railgun but has PDCs and torpedo launchers, another thing that realistically makes more sense to be used at over 2km ranges but in game you wouldnt use torpedoes unless target is coming straight at you and you are 1km away at most
Satori sama The most realistic weapon would be turreted missile launchers. Fire and forget, no matter where the enemy is.
Admittedly, this would make for some pretty boring gameplay.
It seems like someone's never flown an engineered Vulture, FDL, Mamba or Krait Mark II - all are very maneuverable and work wonderfully with fixed. Not following you at all.
EDTutorials by Exigeous It does work in game just ok, when it actually shouldn’t. That is essentially my problem with it!
Even the Sidewinder as the smallest ship in the game is substantially more massive than today’s fighter planes. The Vulture might still classify as a “small” ship in ED, but it is absolutely humongous, I’d say it’s comparable to a C-17 Globemaster III, now tell me how ridiculous it sounds to enter a dogfight with that kind of plane. The Fer-de-Lance barely fits on football field, the Krait definitely doesn’t. Here we are already more comparable with an AN-225, the biggest plane we have today.
Then we upgrade to a anaconda or a corvette, and still fly them like a WW II fighter plane.
For a game that focuses on “immersion”, ED has a whole lot of crap like this going on.
i know what youre trying to say but it should be fun as well, as its a game. if you want a simulation, you might wanna play something else
That was a great rundown.
Definitely situational. I usually have one when flying a large ship only to knock out fighters and very agile, smaller craft.
I use 2 class 3 fixed engineered beams and 3 gimballed engineered (1 class 3 and 2 class 2) MC's 1 with the corrosive effect on my current combat ship a python.
Always seem to learn something new when I watch your videos. Keep up the great work. O7 👍🏼👍🏼
Videos keep getting better and better. I love the tracking on the onscreen popups.
Thanks, I'm really not that good at Premiere/Photoshop, etc. but I'm trying to learn more and add fun stuff like that - so thanks for noticing.
@@Exigeous I've done enough videos myself to know it's not that easy. So keep up the good work! Your tutorials have helped me tremendously.
Thanks, nice explanation, I like your videos as they are to the point, with no messing about and easy to follow
Very nice video, and compelling argument! I appreciate the graphic analysis as well.
One strategy I thought to experiment with turrets was to use them with a fighter bay ship so that the ship would be an automatic threat whenever fighters were used
In case anyone got picked up by youtube algorithm 2 years later.
Turreted weapons are conditioned for:
1. Do you already have a primary and secondary weapon that's constantly being used and you still need a third? Yes? Is it a Medium or Small hardpoint? Yes? Then use turret for your third.
2. Is it a weapon for its function, like scramble spectrum or long vent, not for damage? Yes? Is it constantly on? Yes? Use turret.
3. How much of time is your hardpoint firing at the enemy? Less than 70% of the combat time? You're not constantly facing the enemy? Is it a Medium or Small hardpoint? Yes? Use turret.
4. Is it a crappy location hardpoint? Yes? Use turret.
Unless you're using something like plasma or railgun, do understand anything that's Medium or Small hardpoint don't really matter on damage due to their low penetration.
If your hardpoint sucks at forward fire, for example Corvette's LMM hardpoints or Cutter's wing MM hardpoints, Anaconda's belly SS hardpoints, they're excellent turret locations.
For ships that have good forward fire hardpoints, like the alliance triplets or almost all the medium and small ships, they don't need turrets, this is mostly a large ship issue.
Just got back into the game, glad you’re still making awesome videos
Exigeous is my favorite Elite Dangerous youtuber hands down, his content is always to the point and never drawn out. Keep it up man!
I've been using turreted weapons and I haven't even been using the 360 firing function. Thanks for the video this will save me a bunch of credits.
so to get my friend started in the game, i took him out in my anaconda with a fighter bay, that gave him a insanely great start as he learned how to fight in a wet napkin and a 100% disposable ship with big daddy anaconda there to back him up and do the heavy lifting, it was a very very fun multi crew experiance
"big daddy anaconda" lol
@@Blueee51 11 months late it's now big daddy federal covet fully engineered
@@FlavorfulGaming sounds nice! My combat ship is a krait mk2
@@Blueee51 those sure are popular. I just love the raw power of those 2 huge hard point auto cannons. I basically copy passed d2e's cucumber. And man does it absolutely dominate conflict zones
@@FlavorfulGaming I bet it does lol. I tried taking my anaconda out of the mothballs and tried to do combat with it after outfitting, but it was not the best at turning. So I shoved it back into storage when I got back to my home station.
Very informative Exegious as always.
Glad you enjoyed it
I just use them because they look cool. There's just something immersion breaking about having fixed weaponry on a large space ship. And I write off the fact that it takes me 3x longer to kill anything as a result as simply an extra level of challenge difficulty for the e-cred.
I'm not totally convinced, though my next project is to engineer more weapons to see what happens in practice - my opinion for the longest time has been that the Cutter is probably as effective if not more with turrets on top, because at that point you have effectively 100% uptime on 2x large and 2x small mounts firing at a target owing to its great roll speed and the good DPE of the turrets.
The huge has to be fixed or gimbal, and your job when flying one is to bring that to bear - but unless turret accuracy is really THAT awful compared to fixed or gimbal, the effective 100% time that the target is in your threat zone feels like it most likely outweighs the higher (but less energy efficient and harder to converge) damage of other mounts.
Flying around in my Eagle I like using cannons, but having that turret on top has definitely helped while I'm busy focusing on flying.
I totally forgot multicrew was a thing, what an underutilized feature
I always want multicrew. Flying helos in BF series was always so much fun, there's so much potential here in ED for it but they've mis implemented it
Very helpful though you inadvertently answered a question that I had which I found most useful as I was trying to figure out whether or not I wanted to keep the 2 grade 5 hicap/corrosive multi cannon turrets on my Corvette for the specific reason of keeping the effect going active.
i agree for the most part but on some ships like the type 10 defender unless u can face ur enemy while piloting the brick they are usually helpful as a deterrent because its hard to chase a ship thats firing at u backwards
Your content is fantastic, fast paced, packed with specific data, one if my favourite for quick info on almost anything.
The only problem here is the title I think, although it's ok to express personal opinion, saying that might hurt some turret lovers. XD
I did use them on my barely engineered Krait mk2 together with plasma accelerators, while I try to hit the target or try to stay out of their fire, turrets bring down the shields. Together with a SLF it allow me to earn some bounty vouchers that I need to unlock Todd and, iirc, will then allow me to unlock Jean, that I'm in love with. XD
One build that is very rarely explored is focusing on evasion by means of primary thrusters. For example, one of my favorite builds is a very lightweight Mamba with dirty drives, efficient turreted large beams, and turreted medium autocannons. The firing arcs for the hardpoints on the mamba are almost the entire upper 180 degrees, allowing you to orbit around the enemy keeping out of their firing arc. It requires a lot of situational awareness and VR or some form of headtracking is very much needed to be able to constantly look "up" to keep an eye on your enemy.
It's not a fast killer, but it sure is fun to fly!
EDIT: For clarity, by orbiting I mean keeping your enemy "above" your ship at all times, whilst you nose follows a trajectory around your enemy at a fixed distance. Unlike a small agile ship like an Eagle where you would mostly strafe away from the enemy's firing arcs, you're taking advantage of that blue zone maneuverability boost, keeping your tangential speed very high.
If you've ever played EVE Online, you'll know what I mean
why are you putting turrets or medium hardpoints on a mamba lol
@@Jazod I just explained why, the giant firing arcs allow you to orbit your target whilst moving forward, instead of strafing, which gives you much higher angular velocity. I'm in no way saying this is an efficient or "good" build, it's just fun to fly and something "different"
Hello, I haven’t got very good English. can you please tell me which one is tracking target to shoot? Gimbaled, turreted or Fixed??? I want to upgrade them to which can track and shoot the target. Thank you.
This helps explain why my new Type-10 was getting shredded in low intensity combat zones.
On my Anaconda, I use hi-cap corrosive turreted mcs and one short-ranged thermal vent beam laser. The beam laser helps keep the ship cool.
Do the fixed guardian weapons have micro gimbal? as I never notice any movement when using them on my corvette.
Used to use a large beam turret on top of the FAS to good effect. In a turning dogfight against player or NPC, they couldn't hit me but my turret was hitting them. It may not be as efficient but it still has it's place.
Are there certain hardpoints on certain ships that are better with turrets? Or are all better suited to be gimballed as the vid says. I'm planning to move a few to fixed and have no turrets but I wondered if certain hardpoints with certain weapons may be somewhat limited without being turreted.
Awesome video as always!
Been using turrets on my big 3 with a gimballed multi cannon for their huge HP since I got them. Never had any trouble mowing stuff down. I knew they did less damage, but wasn't aware it was that much less. Still, I play with mouse and keyboard, which means flying with FA off is very difficult. So turrets help! Plus, my wife and I are always multi crewing. :) So we're 2 of the 7 - 8 people multicrewing! :P
Thanks for the video. I agree with much of what you say, however there are a couple of additional benefits to having one or two small turreted weapons on your ships.
First of all, if you are using fixed weapons for primary damage, having at least one turret will affect NPC behaviour as they are more likely to swing away from constant fire than stand toe-to-toe with you. This can lessen the damage to your own ship.
Secondly, if you are in a less manouverable large ship, they can help you deal with fast-moving small fighters while you concentrate on larger enemies.
Thirdly, if you are in a smaller ship that occasionally needs to move out of range, a single long-range turret can be useful to keep your ship technically engaged with a pirate while security forces take a ship down. This can help to avoid missing bounties if you have to disengage and can be useful while you hone your skills.
Fourthly, although they cause less damage, they can also create less heat and distributer draw, so they can be useful to balance ship weapon overheating. In some locations (eg. the small hardpoints underneath cobra Mk111s) they tend to fire at different times to fixed or gimballed weapons.
Finally, it is quite rewarding to use a combination of fixed weapons and turreted because it allows you to concentrate on aiming just one weapon. This can be quite freeing and effective, even with smaller ships as long as you use high damage fixed weapons. An example might be a Cobra MkIV with three small efficient railguns and two overcharged or long-range turreted pulse lasers, ideally with a couple of effects applied.
The only two reasons I use turreted is to apply corrosive and emmissive effects. Emmissive I put it on the pulse since its instant in comparison to a mc. Also its great for those cold running builds since "fire at will" will always track him regardless of heat in my experience.
This video is fantastic.
The problem is that for a new player is very hard very very hard to process all these informations watching it once and ...maybe this is worth to watch once one has a ship and has to decide to mount this stuff or has played and fought at least 50 100 times.. otherwise at least for me it's very hard to process all these info and keep them with me.
I think you made it very clear anyway, the work in this video is OUTSTANDING.
im sure this has been asked, what color settings are you using for your HUD? i absoutly love the look of yours and cant get mine quite right
It has been over a year since I last played but back then I was mainly doing bounties/conflict zones. I just really like combat. ;-) Turrets are very energy efficient weapons and I decided to use that property and go for a build that would let me stay in combat for the longest period possible. No reloading, no going back to base for more ammo. Just sheer persistence.
I was using a souped up to the max Federal corvette* with everything put into regeneration, both energy and shields. I was using beam turrets in the medium and large slots with efficiency and thermal vent. Two huge gimbal beam lasers with the same ef+tv mods. And two pulse turrets in the small slots with efficient, scramble spectrum and emissive (I was still trying to figure out if emissive was actually doing something useful or not). So yeah, lasers baby! The beauty of all this efficiency plus maxed out weapon regeneration is that you can fire the turrets indefinitely at only a single pip. Yep, I am not kidding. Infinite firing time. Put in four pips and fire the huge beam lasers and I could still sustain nearly a minute worth of deadly laser fire.
Occasionally you could get swarmed in a conflict zone as your AI teammates all died and shields started to disappear. When that happens the thermal venting really works wonders. Usually the heat level was near 0%. Even when I popped double shield boosters the temperature never reaches 100%, if you have a target that lasts longer than the regeneration cycle.
*I wish my old ED shipyard links still worked though. I would've linked the build here. :-(
I've always used gimballed autocannons as my main with missile backup in freight haulers. Less power hungry and let me divert more power to shield and engine to get away.
The different weapon types are so ridiculously unbalanced. Weapons shouldn’t do less damage because they’re gimballed or turreted, especially given the additional cost.
The damage should remain consistent, and it should be power draw and heat that’s increased when using gimballed or turreted, which makes even more sense when you consider that the ships that would need aim assisted weapons the most are the ones who would have the larger power plants and distributors and could absorb the higher costs. In contrast, smaller, more nimble ships like the Vulture can rock fixed weapons more easily.
Those should be the drawbacks, not reducing damage so much that they become useless no matter the circumstances.
Speaking of the "higher skill ceiling" weapons such as Plasma Accelerators, what would be a tl;dr version of what to focus on? I'm sticking to the basics with lasers to attack shields and multicannons to attack hull, and I'm wondering about switching to different weapons. The drawbacks of limited ammunition on missile launchers and so on kinda make me shy away from experimenting.
I wouldn't consider myself skilled at all, but sometimes it does feel like it takes too long to destroy ships with say, two small lasers and one medium multicannon on an Imperial Eagle for example.
As someone with a profound visual impairment that is just getting into playing this game, I really appreciate you mentioning disability because I think a lot of people shy away from talking about options such as turrets for disabled gamers, especially because so many people view them as a cheetah or what have you when options similar to disappear in other titles. Again I just appreciate you bringing light to this and wanted to say thanks!
Turrets need a buff. Id gladly take a hit to my speed or mobility if it means I have 360 degree coverage of a decent weapon. I wanna fly my ship as a mobile gun platform with fighters, turrets, and heavy shields. I'm not interested in dogfights in a space game.
Wouldn’t turrets be ideal for larger ships like the Anaconda which have incredibly slow turning rates? For instance, I find myself getting caught up in jousting matches when enemy ships end up behind me and I feel like having at least two turreted weapons help keep the damage output going. Other than that, any rebuttals as to why I shouldn’t use them are explained in the video, so I agree that turrets are very situational
Thanks for the breakdown! Did you take in consideration that with turrets, the constant damage removes shield regen off ships? A small turret can be helpful then as well. Or with the Cutter which has such a bad pitch speed that it's top Class 3 weapons could benefit from turreted weapons?
Sure, I'd consider using a single small turret for that reason a good idea, as again you're not using it for primary damage - and that's the myth I'm trying to end.
@@Exigeous You're actually spouting the same old horseshit talking points from three years ago and framing it against a strawman.
@@KevinVilbig these same old talking points form 3 years ago might just… not have changed. If no balancing was done by FDev, then 3 year old talking points are still valid. And as far as I could tell, FDev has done no such thing concerning turrets vs gimbals vs fixed.
@@platiuscyndar9017 Nah. They were the same reductive narrow minded analysis that they were 3 years ago, but go ahead and fly your 'conda out with a bunch of fixed guns. I'm sure that more practice with FAOFF will mean you will be able to catch that Vulture next time. Go get 'em champ!
::exaggerated jerking off motion::
The best use I've found for a turreted weapon is with builds like my Goid killer Anaconda. I use a turreted beam laser with thermal vent to vent the heat generated by all the gauss cannons. I also use one on my Plasma Vette. But other than a few niche uses turrets are pretty bad.
Yep, exactly - using it for the application of the experimental rather than for damage. Best use of turrets all around.
First of all, I only play PVE / Solo and enjoy dogfighting with my FDL, but I dream to have a Turret Boat, just manouver and do nothing for the $$$.
I plan to do a Anaconda (and some time, in my forever dream, the Cutter) Turret Boat fully modded with pulse Turrets ( because I learnt, that focused Mod is the best). I'm note sure about the Outfitting and experimental effects, but with the planner I can infinite fire with all Wep Pips. Is there an in depth guide for outfitting / modding and exp effects for each slot / mod / exp. effect or maybe a PVE / Combat oriented guide?
Personally I run turreted burst lasers on my Anaconda's top and nose mounts while running gimballed multi-cannons on the underbelly mounts. This set up has worked fairly well in conflict zones and haz-rezzes. The lasers constantly tick away at their shields while I line up the cannons for the big damage.
Wish I woulda seen this before I started engineering the turreted beams on my Cobra Mk3 and gimballed on my Krait Mk2. I can see how the higher dps and lower power draw of fixed would be better as you improve your thrusters and are able to track targets more accurately.
I use turrets in conflict zones with engage at will, that will allow me to hit more ships simultaneously and get rewards when the NPCs take them out
Fantastic video as always! However I do use Multi-Crew also and my friends. So its now 13 of us! But lemme tell you ... A Type-10 with a full crew is great fun, and yes, I said a Type-10!. What I want to know is can we have a full wing, with full crew compliment (So a full wing but with 12 players in). Because honestly, multi-crew is actually really really fun, it's fantastic for new players, or even super casual players who only have a couple of hours to play. Its great for Stellar photography and video making (really good 3rd person camera). It's also great for people who are overwhelmed by the controls. So its great to get your kids to jump in and be your crew. There is alot of possibilities with the system tbh, and I think it does get overlooked alot.
BUT ... I do agree, they are really crap outside their main function of what you described in the video. Low damage output and only really good for applied status effect. Engineering them really helps though.
I don't think you can wing up while in Multi-Crew, but honestly both have been so buggy for me that I haven't tried.
What does the larger circular reticule signify, that seems to appear when the target is directly in front of the ship (e.g. with multi-cannons at around 1:15)? I think it might be unique to gimballed multicannons.
It denotes the distance to target.
@@Exigeous
Thx Ex, but I'm not following.
Just to be crystal clear: I'm talking about the larger circular reticule that flashes on whenever the target ship crosses directly in front of the ship, and off again when the target moves off-center. Looking at your clip from around 1:10, this appears to happen at various distances to target, always/only when crossing directly in front of us.
Up until now, I just thought that this is all it means - that the target happens to be directly in front - but why would that need to be shown for gimballed MC's?
So what’s a good gun setup for a T-10? Since the ship is as maneuverable as a soccer stadium and the hard points seem setup specifically for turrets. I’m curious what the non-turret builds are like on that beast.
That was my thought exactly, I also have a T10 and a lot of the hard points really only seem to be feasible for turrets due to how they are positioned.
Homp Nomp Yeah. And the four large hard points are kinda meant for turrets. I know the T-10 is shunned by elite/meta combatants, but I’m sure there’s some way to have fun builds with that thing.
if i made turret with scramble spectrum it is worth or not, sir? sorry my bad english but i hope someone reply me for my noob question
Still need to engineer my turrets on my annie’s two class one hardpoints, main reasons for those to be turreted is because
1) hardpoint placement
2) I couldn't think of anything better to put in those hardpoints since a good chunk of the time my ship is obscuring the target unless they fly past it's belly instead of over the ship.
Plus they only time the turrets have any real time on target is when I'm lining up the class 4 weapon. Personally I've always seen turrets as a support weapon and rather play with gimbal or fixed
Truth be told I'm trying to get my hands on pack hounds to put in those class one hardpoints but that requires me to do power play.... I already have the time pledged.... But power play.... Maybe some day.
I have three medium pulse turrets on my Type 9 in case I don't manage to invade an interdiction, because literally any ship except the T9 itself can manage to stay behind me if I don't fly assist-off, which I am not too good at.
I have 2 small turreted pulse lasers in the top of my Corvette, to keep some damage on my target while I'm trying to get them back in front of me
How extactly, one could un-traget opponent ship, when there are not other targets around ?
Is there a specific keybinding for that ?
Target ahead when pointed at nothing, or use the target next system in route button.
So I have a question. My T10 is extremely slow when trying to manuveur around to get my target in front of me. (I'm slowly engineering it to be more responsive, but it's still a T10) For this reason alone, I've elected to go with turreted weapons. However I use it as a platform and hop into a fighter. Would this be a good use of turreted weapons in this case?
I do the same. Have the 2 large and 2 medium on the roof as turrets. I like it because when a more nimble ship is out turning me I can keep damage on target till I get behind them.
IMHO absolutely not, and that's the entire point of the video. Sure, it'll take you a few seconds to get turned and you basically have to use gimbals on the T10 due to the wide hardpoint placement but given the huge difference in damage between gimbaled and turreted gimbals will always win. Realize that by running turrets you're almost putting mediums on larges and smalls on mediums. I'd encourage you to give gimbals and try as I run them on my T10 and they work extremely well.
@@Exigeous I think you might have overlooked that Elder is using the T10 as a platform for a fighter, so turrets would in this case absolutely make sense, wouldn't they? Since the control of the T10 would be entirely in the hands of the hired copilot and not Elder while Elder is using the fighter.
@Boogie Baggins their aim isn't in question. If I was in a more manuverable ship with a fighter, you best believe that ship would have fixed or gimbled. The issue is the physics of the T10 in general as it has a larger turning rate and would be outclassed by actually fighters just by being able to get into blind spots.
Did they remove the option, "fire at will" and "target only"? The only option I have is "forward fire".
Thans captain, that was very interesting!
Fenomenal R. Constantino. Mais uma excelente entrevista.
Are there certain ships that have such awful turn rates that they need turrets? I don't know as I only purchased nimble ships.
nope
I only use turreted weapons in my freighter build as a confusion tactic against hankers so they don't know if I will stay and fight or Run away
Yes. I typically use turrets only in the smallest mounts and for utility. Thermal Vent beams, for example. My main weapons are fixed.
My main use for turrets is my Type-9, I imagine other large, slow ships benefit from them as well, but my primary weapon on my FDL is a Huge Gimballed Autoloader Multicannon, which I used to pair with gimballed lasers on the fire group with fixed cannons as secondary, although I've swapped them out for Railguns recently after being griefed by someone just running the maximum amount of Plasla Accelerators they could while also shield tanking.
My Type 9 is equiped only whit beam turrets and a fighter hangar. Works very nice against npc pirates.
@@themainman2827 I didn't have the room to spare as I'd already assigned some of my potential cargo slots for additional armour.
My Krait MK2 though has a fighter hangar and is my medium pad cargo runner, with a triple array of class 3 Overcharged Multicannons on the top to support the fighter and two efficient lasers if ammunition runs out. Still manages about 30 LY without cargo too and I haven't even got the materials to fully engineer it yet. Truth be told only some of my kinetic weapons are fully engineered, I'm all over the place on other modules.
@@reonthornton685 Last night i found im actually very good avoiding NPC interdictions whit my type-6, so i think i would change the hangar for another cargo bay for more dirty profit.
I have a Krait Mk2 too, what a beautifull ship.
@@themainman2827 It really is. I wish we could save multiple loadouts for a ship so I didn't have to manually swap parts every time I wanted to do something else.
@@reonthornton685 That is why i build mine to cover almost every kind of mission: whit a first class passenger cabin, a pair of srv, moderate cargo bay for small delivery, some collector limpets because im too lazy, enough firepower for bounty hunting, and a fighter hangar because why not.
The only thing it cant do is mining, but you dont take a pretty girl to get into a bunch of dirty rocks, anyway.
I use huge fixed for the large targets and gimbal in the rest for the small targets, on my corvette.
Only on the FDL or similar agile craft i would go full fixed, on the slower ships i am struggling with the aim and loosing too much on target damage.
Your videos are GREAT, thanks for all the knowledge, really helping this noob get up to speed, THANKS!
nice informative video!
I think the Type 10 does really well with turrets. Especially fun if you can get a stable multicrew session going with it.
how do you pay the multicrew member? just curious. Missions dont pay them but if you drop them a load of void opals i can see that working.
@@oceanbytez847 if you do bounty hunting, they receive the same amount of bounties as you do, also you can do massacre wing missions, and share it with them, my friend that just started to play 2 days ago got already 80mil from being my crew and helping me with massacre missions
the problem i have is using 3 or more types of weapons, i need to put in the case of threee 1 type in turret because of the hassle of constant fire mode switching
5:33 I don't quite understand the rationale behind this. Lasers, i.e. instant hit weapons should be fixed, but cannons, with their slow projectiles, should also be fixed?
I've seen tons of videos of people in tiny ships taking out larger ones by staying out of the firing cone
Chaff can be bypassed by keeping crosshairs on aiming point and locking onto and off of enemy repeatedly. This keeps the spread low and allows most shots to hit anyway. Be aware of security ships or allies behind your target as you might accidentally target them instead
There is nothing quite like an efficient Class 4 gimballed beam to melt the face off anything in front of you.... except Class 3 gimballed multis once their shields are down. In a Conda I might add, get those Class 5 Dirty Drive Thrusters :)
What if you’re fighting fast moving ships in a slow turning ship? How could you ever expect to be able to stay on target when they can out turn you?
in this case turrets turn to slowly to stay on target so the situation has not changed.
Your best bet here is chaff, heatsinks, and plot the nearest high wake and gtfo of there!
well me as a noob just bought all turrets because... well i suck at flying but still want to do the boom boom from time to time. thanx for the info man!
Well enjoy much much more powerful boom boom with gimbals which are essentially as easy but your time to kill will drop quite a lot.
What if I'm using a slow and sluggish ship, say a Type-10 with an onboard fighter, wouldn't it make sense for the weirdly placed guns to shoot themselves while I assist my main ship with a fighter? Sort of like an aircraft carrier.
I agree with most of what you said. I would just point out that turrets use less power. Comes in handy in specific cases (as you said).
What would you prefere if you fly the type 10 defender because here you have a slow ship where i think that turrets is a good choice
Gimbals.
@@Jazod thanks for the answer yes i change it to gimballs after i saw his live show in a CZ and after i tried once flying into a CZ with fire at will and suddenly i had 4 or 5 shooting at me. That was to much for My liking.
and if i had a ''hot garbaged'' Corvette for pve... got any advice if i want to keep the garbage? :D
Well like all garbage I'd take it out to the curb ;-) - if you want me to roast your build (all for fun) in an upcoming video feel free to post a Coriolis link.
then : turrets are shit
now : afk combat turret builds
Turrets on a Type-9 with the turning and handling of a brick is pretty helpful.
What about type 10 defender slow turnrates? 😅
Beam turrets are just too good to ignore. They don't need leading and always hit. Unless target is using chaff that is but it can't be 100% in most cases. To match this output you'd have to be perfectly hitting the target for 30%-50% time of engagement with the gimbal/fixed beams. Maybe it's possible with smaller ships but not with larger ones.
As long as they connect, your target's shields are draining so your projectile can deal full damage. Also you only need to worry about aiming one weapon since turrets are shooting fully autonomously.
I've found so far that turreted lasers are effective defensively. Early in the game like I am, in a cobra mkiii, the most difficult pirates I've had to deal with are on larger ships that shoot backwards at me while I'm trying to stay positioned behind them. It drove me off when I attacked a pve FDL, and the first time I was killed was when I attacked a pve anaconda with turrets.
I just set up a DBX for making money scanning and was thinking of making my defensive weapons turretted instead of gimballed like usual so that I can just focus on evading and getting away.
This is an interesting point. But let's say I am using my Type 10, and I have not engineered it, would turret weapons be good?
IMHO absolutely not, that's the entire point of the video. They make zero sense unengineered as the damage is so much lower. Let's say you put 4 turrets on the larges - that's the same damage output as 4 fixed MEDIUMS. Now, the T10 doesn't really work with fixed so I'd go gimbaled (and do, I enjoy the T10) and I have no issues with time on target at all, and when I am on target I kill it MUCH faster. So leave the turrets at home until you have some engineered then bring a single small corrosive up front and you're good to go.
I use APA, G5 Efficient plasma slug, on my A rated fully engineered vulture and it's my favorite PVE and 'for fun' pvp ship.
I use eng pulse turrets on my python with one large gimb mc. Turrets do the job as enemy always run up to avoid my mc. So is always gets under turret fire until my python finish turning and get enemy back in from of me
I have an all turrets Annie but its so maddening watching it shoot behind the target so consistently. If turrets stayed on target I might consider dusting off that Annie but for now she's parked