2021 2022 2023 2024 KTM 1290 Super Adventure Akrapovic dB killer removal A GUIDE WITH SOUND CHECK
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- More 2021 2022 1290 SAS video on my channel.
Due to feedback SOUND TEST NOW ADDED to this guide. 19M 30SEC
USE GOOD SPEAKERS TO HEAR SOUND CHECK LIKE TV SOUNDBAR. NOT PHONE - OR IT WONT SOUND AS IT SHOULD.
5mm drill bit size for the rivets x2
Genuine Akrapovic Blind Rivet Stainless Steel P-BR1 Re-Sleeve Repair x 12 KTM
Grinder to remove spot welds on bolts of db killer
Genuine Akrapovic Exhaust Rubber Grommet Hole Cover Plug P-GUV004 13mm KTM
Channel Link to Other Videos.
/ @ricardoyeep
So I watched this video over and over and decided to cut out a few steps in removing the baffles. Fast forward to where you drilled out the 12mm holes in the carbon cover. I stuck some masking tape over the carbon area that was going to be drilled and measured / guessed the position of the holes I needed to drill which would line up with the bolts holding the baffles in place. Once marked and checked I drilled a 3mm pilot hole in both positions then used your idea of a 12mm countersink bit and proceeded to drill the main holes. All while the exhaust was still on the bike. Once drilled I used a 1/4" drive with extension and 8mm socket to pass through the newly drilled 12mm hole. At this point I was very careful not to put to much anti clockwise pressure on the ratchet. I made sure the socket sat securely on the nut and proceeded to make SMALL left and right twists on the ratchet until the bolt broke loose from the very light spot welds. (I have a sneaky suspicion that Acro did that on purpose to make it easy to remove the bolts). Did this on both the upper and lower outlets and viola the db's were out. Took all of 30 minutes. You made it very easy for me with the detailed video otherwise I couldn't have done it this way. Thank you!
Cheers
Bruce
Hiya Bruce! Thanks for the comment and positive feedback, I am pleased the video gave some useful insight and you managed to this quicker. Unfortunately my welds were not so easy to break. So you must be a lucky one!!!! Even with full access to my db killers and the bolts I could not break the spot welds. They were well and trully welded. Mine required a grinder to remove the welds. Which would not have been possible via a small hole. I actuually part rounded a bolt trying to break the weld in the same method you have done (even with complete access and in a vice). But that is great to hear mate I am glad I was of some help.
Cheers
Ric
Bruce I did the same - marked up the locations and drilled to gain access to the allen screws - so far they haven't shifted so I think I will be moving onto phase 2 approach and drill out the rivets and remove the carbon cap for a grind release as per the Ricardo method. I do now have neatly drilled holes with rubber caps so thats one less job to do!
@@brucecutts8841 Sorry for the late reply but the bolts are Allen head and 8mm hex. The Allen head didn't work for me either and that's why i switched to a 8mm socket with 1/4" drive to get through the 12mm hole.
@@brucethomas3332 ah right I will have another look and a go with an 8mm
@@brucethomas3332 just inserted my 8mm hex and the screws popped free and now the baffles are out! easy to break the spot welds ith the 1/4 inch drive too
I don’t even own a KTM or an Akra but it was interesting to watch none the less🤣
Haha 😂 hello mate and thanks for the feedback! 👍💪
Thanks for your time and dedication mate.
Sharing my experience here with you. Since I was able to see the welds from the outside before start any work, I was pretty confident they would be very easy to break, so I started by drilling the holes on the carbon to access the bolts. Once done I easily removed the screws, without applying much torque and screw were out.
The sound is just right, not too loud and much more pleasant than the original exhaust. Looking fwd to be able to ride the bike.
Keep the good work.
Hiya Nelson ! That’s awesome and thanks for sharing too your experience! I am happy to hear your short cut paid off. And it’s good to hear you agree the sound is exactly how I was trying to explain. It’s louder but not in a intrusive or rude way. It’s just a deeper more richer tone. A much nicer sound which goes with the engine better. And thanks for the feedback it’s much appreciated cheers! It’s all great fun for me playing and working on the bike. So will be keeping busy for sure. 👍
Thanks again and ride safe!
Ric
that is probably the best diy video on the subject so far. very clear explanation, well done.
although, if i were to buy the 2021 1290 (hard to find a worthy touring replacement for my white 2016 1290SA), i would probably wait a while for Wings to come up with their proposal. almost half the price, equal (if not better) quality, and amazing, deep bass sound.
plus, Gorazd, the owner of Wings, is very helpful with everything and hand mades all the products himself. always glad to support such an awesome professional
but i know its hard to stick with the ugly OEM exhaust ;)
Hello! and thank you very much kind sir that's a great bit of feedback. Cheers.
I agree there are or will be soon a lot more on offer regarding exhausts. And definitely much better value as these Akras are crazy expensive. But I am a bit of a purist so will usually go with OEM official performance parts unfortunately. And as for the OEM yeah its very plain and boring looking. But the sound to be honest is not too bad. Just a little too quiet.
Sounds like you have an excellent bike already! It would need to be worth the upgrade. Would you have more fun on the new one? But is the fun worth the extra $$$... Possibly not if you have a dam good ride already.
Anyway great to hear from you and thank you for your time in watching my stuff! Appreciated
Cheers
Ric
Another fantastic video! I’ve done some homemade exhaust work in the past. You are a surgeon compared to my caveman holding a hammer:). Thanks again for a useful, thorough, and well made video.
Hello my friend thank you kindly for the feedback! Appreciate you watching the vid and finding it useful. It’s not as hard as it looks 😂
Doing a job like this makes my hands sweaty!!! Great result!!!!
Haha hello mate... Also made the heart stop a few times too.. But after the first few rivets were drilled its a piece of cake. Especially after I have now done it a couple of times on this can. Thanks for the comment :)
Cheers
Ric
Hi,..again Ricardo. I`ve listened several times on your soundcheck and it confirms what I experience on my own(the same as yours)exhaust. It is not getting any louder/noisier without the baffles just less metallic and with a more sonor/deep tone.
I come to the conclusion that the two "inner db-killers",(16 mm/12 cm long) in the lower part of the muffler takes care of the volume of the sound. I expect that's why it`s still possible to take the baffles out, they have an insurance deep down that the Euro- 5 regulations are followed. And we are satisfied with an aftermarket exhaust that we can modify.
I remember my 1190 adv r with a Remus Hexacone, that became much louder without the baffles because it had one open pipe from the start to the end and the same with my Akra to the 790 adv r. There the baffles really change the inner flow of the exhausts.
As I mentioned previous I modified my baffles through cutting down the length, I`m now down to 8 cm of original 24/27 cm and the change is relatively small. Just a little bit more of that deep tone in the last "chamber".
I´m not disappointed with the sound. It sounds awesome with or without the baffles and you can choose which sound you prefer regarding to you own ears and the environment you drive in. I want my environment(farms with children, horses, cows and cats and dogs...) to hear me before I reach them on the gravel roads I ride. For their and my safety.....but not to loud and take down the revs as you pass, I see that they appreciate it because they wave.Staffan
Hey up Staffan, thanks for detailed info. Totally agree with you that it is not an intrusive sound but more like a deep bass thumper tone. very pleasant (to some). Definitely louder to some extent that without the baffles. I find that with the baffle in it sounds like a stock can with little more "growl". Slightly better. You are probably right about the inner chamber too. It is defintely a interesting structure. And I am all for better to be heard aswell as seen! (I have no idea how it will be when we are all on silent electric bikes).. I hear some feedback about it doesnt sound much different without baffles. I think you will agree that the video clip doesnt come close to how it sounds in real life. It is pretty awsome!. :)
@@RicardoYeep You are right about that the sound in real is impossible to transfer with a you tube clip, but as you did you got us to understand the differens between them in very good way. I can confirm that the sound of each of them are correct, but less than if you stand beside it like you did.
I did your 5000 rev soundcheck with my modified baffle in and I can say, it was not silent...
But that's another thing with this sound clips when the bikes are standing still compare to when you hear a bike that are passing you on the road. The revs/sound on a moving bike transfer more slowly than when you turn the throttle on your backyard, it easily gets quite hysterical with the revs when the engine don't have any resistance. And of course the fact that a bike that are moving towards you and then passes you is constantly changing the sound despite that the revs on the engine are the same. This sound is the real thing and you will never hear it because you are riding the bike...sad but true...haha
Ricardo, can you answer me why we discuss this subject with such emphasis, It is quite nerdy...but I must confess that when I hear a bike coming I always analyze the sound..and if it is a Ducati V2 with the right exhaust it is spot on../S
Hello Staffan! HAHA the 5000 rev will definitely not be silent :) But you are totally correct that for someone on the road side they will only hear for a short time say half a second the full volume (and at a distance). And there is nothing wrong with nerdy haha. Most people I would say ride bikes not because its a mode of transport but more for a passion. So for me its not nerdy but simple passionate about something they enjoy! Yep I know when its a Harley or a Big Bang R1 with Akros, Or V-Twin. If you are really into bikes you generally get to know these and you do start turning to look when you hear them at a distance.... But not to complain..More to appreciate !
Hi Ric! Thanks for making the beautiful videos. They are very helpful. I just tried to remove my db-killer from my akrapovic which is 30000 km on it. One is out but the other is realy stuck.:-( I'm going to remove all rivets soon. So thanks again for the tutorial.
Greetz!
Hello mate! Thanks for taking the time to write. And pleased you found the video enjoyable and helpful. Yes some people have done the short cut by guessing the holes. Great of all works out. But like you and some others sometimes you just got to bite the bullet and just do the long way haha. Just take your time and you’ll be fine 💪👍
@@RicardoYeep Oh yeah! db-killers are out! Men those Stainless steel rivets are hard! But it is beautifull. Keep posting the video's because i love to see them. Drive safe. BRAAAAAP!
@@duiterwijkwinkel5394 Thanks mate 🙏
I've removed the db killers without de assembeling the exhaust. Just drilled 2 holes on the side after right messarment and removed the bolds simpely with a impact screwdriver (makita) and a 8mm socket. Very simpel and 30min work.
Hi Davy that’s great news yes some people have managed This. Good time saver. Although others haven’t even been able to get the bolts cracked even in a vice and needed to grind some of the weld. I guess worst case you’ll have to do the full process. 👍
How did you measure so that the hole was in the right place ?
Did half of the job like @lifeofsmokes but one of the db killers would not come out!
Order the rivets and did the second db killer like you.
Should have done your way from the begging but was afraid after seeing the video of you removing the covers, it was not that hard! Lol
Great learning experience!
Love your videos keep it up
Thanks
Hello Tiago! Great to hear from you and thank you for liking my videos. Yes I have seen life of smokey and his short cut. Its all great as long as it works out. As you found it is not always that easy. But I am pleased you found out that my way was not hard at all once you done it once.. :) It just looks frightening but it is not really. Glad you go it all done in the end as that is the main thing. All the best!! Ric 🤝
greetings from Los angles this video was informative as it was entertaining, I plan on getting a 2024 SAR soon so this video is top notch, cheers
Hiya bud and thanks for the feedback and watching 😀. Great to hear it was useful and funny. I definitely remember every minute still 3 years on 🤣. Good luck with it when you get your new ride 👍 cheers , Ric
I don't undestand how your exhaust sound that nice even with the db killer... I just got mine and I found the sound is almost the same as with the oem one and for the price its make me sick a little
Or you could just buy the WINGS muffler and the DB just comes out with a screw.😂. And the sound is absolutely fantastic. Cheers
Good point. Although this video was in 2021 where it was the “only option” it took over a year for other manufacturers to start making other options unfortunately. 👍
Good job mate, probably I'll do same on my 1290 sar at some point.
For now I only did 350km with the akra and it is still burning fibers (first day was a smoke party), so every day sounds a bit better, but never is enough xD
Cheers Edu! Yeah deffo recommend it. Makes a massive difference. I did mine straight out the box.. The DB killers havent even been used once ! The video sound really doesnt sound as goos as in real life. :) !!!!!
I was surprised how loud it was with the baffles out - I suspect it will get a bit louder too as the fibres settle / compress. No popping on over run with the baffles out either which is both good and bad ;-) I may end up re inserting the baffles with some length adjustments to manage the sound but for now baffles out is great - much the same as 'baffles in' with my Arrow on the previous generation 1290.
@@brucecutts8841 yes mate I told folkes that It wasn’t obnoxious and intrusive as one would think. It’s a deep warm grunt! My mate actually has to check the exhaust to see if my baffles were in or out. But a much better sound for sure ! 👍 congrats mate all good
Great job mate, my 1290s with the akropovik gets delivered this Friday. Will be doing this ASAP. Thanks for the tutorial, it will take the guess work out of the job. 👍
Hey Jez! Glad you liked the vid. Yeah as soon as mine came out the box it was met with a drill. Db killers never used. Just be careful 👍 Cheers Ric
Č=ch
Ah Thanks mate.. Yeah I have been calling them both never knowing which was right :) So pronoucned Akrapovi"ch"! And thanks Jan for watching!
@@RicardoYeep DID the DB removal today, went very smoothly thanks to your video. The sound is much deeper now and not too loud. Well pleased, thanks again. 👍
Ah Jez!! Top man and am well chuffed it worked well and all according to plan. I’ve heard back from a few guys now and all very happy with the result! Like you say it’s a deeper richer tone. And not as loud and offensive as people would think it would be 👍 thanks for letting me know. That’s awesome 👏
Cheers again
Ric
Thank you mate. Really enjoyed this video!
Drive safe!
Cheers mate!
Hiya Fredrik! Thank you mate for the comment. Appreciated 👍
Nice work mate, looks and sounds awesome👌🏻
Hiya Shane! Thanks mate for that. Yeah sounds a lot better than out the box!
Thanks
Ric
Nice one...love your work cheers your Bike looks amazing
Hi John thanks mate for the kind words 👍. Yes I’m happy with the bike now. It’s looking pretty cool. But also functional 😁
Cheers
Ric
Hi my friend :) did drill holes in carbon-cap, but i was not as happy about where the holes where, so the holes where just to big for the rubber-cap from Akrapovic, drilled out ordered new end-cap, hard to find online, but with rubber-caps, 2, new pops, 12 and this new carbon-endcap, with alreaady holes in perfect place :) all in all happy, got same bike as you, only in black and 2022, same bike :) Thanks alot for tip on this.
Hello JS! Thanks mate for watching and commenting. Happy to hear you found it helpful. I’m guessing you tried the shortcut method first ? And didn’t work out. Glad you got it all done in the end 💪
A good idea is when you refit or remove the db killers to put some strong glue on the bolts because when the screws would fall off your screwdriver while you are inside they end up at the bottom of your exhaust 🥶
Hiya mate.. haha I know what you mean but don’t worry they do not fall into the bottom of the exhaust. There is a separate chamber about 3 inches deep from the outlets. The bolts will only fall here. All you have to do is remove the exhaust by removing the two bolts then shake the exhaust until it falls out the hole in the carbon caps that you drilled out. 👍
It’s a little inconvenient but it’s fine…. I’ve done it haha.
My trick is to just put some tissue paper into the bolt and force my Allen key into it. That way it’s tight and the bolt won’t fall off. Once it’s screwed in I just pull the Allen key out 👍
Nice how too. However I’m waiting for the Arrow end can which will be available in early July. That will have a removable baffle and a deeper tone if the one on my old 1290 is anything to go by, it’ll also be a lot cheaper!!
Hiya Bruce! Thanks mate for the feedback, much appreciated! yeah there is certainly slim pickings at the moment regarding end cans. The Arrow probably would be my next choice. I had them on several past bikes and love them! As you say much better value than the Akrapovic as well as removable baffles out the box. I would be interested to hear one too to be fair. Cheers Ric!
You are great, best video , i Hope to find courage change original Exaust with ackrapovic, regards Lorenzo
Hello my friend thanks for watching and the great feedback 🙏 have a happy new year 🥳
Nice. Let’s do this.
Thanks for the tutorial.
Hiya Klaus! Thanks very much for the feedback and liking the guide! You will most certainly enjoy the fruits of your labour once you have completed it! Cheers Ric!
Great video, great info. Thanks
Glad it was helpful Berto. Good luck mate, thanks Ric
Hi Ricardo, I’m Andre from Porto, Portugal! And I really enjoy to watch your videos. Last week I saw your video removing the db killer of the 1290 and I decided to do the same to mine. I came to the point of removing the carbon part but it seems that it is stuck. Any suggestions?
Hello Andre! Porto 💪. My uncle was a Dr (consultant) in Porto. I have memories of there! 👍. And thank you for the positive comment. But sorry you are struggling with the end cap. Yes that stops a few people. You need to make sure all the rivets are completely pushed through. Double check nothing is preventing the cap to come off. Then you need to clamp the can between your legs and smack it off with your hands 👀😹 . It will come eventually.. I’ll stop now 🤦😂😂.
There is no easy fix. It’s patience and muscle 💪
Cheers
Ric
Thanks for your video! Do you feell it is necessary to do anything with the fueling to this setup with removed db killer or does or run properly?
Hello my friend! All runs fine. Only if you remove the cat and have a straight through full system I would have a map. However if your under warranty I personally would not touch any ecu mapping. 👍
@@RicardoYeep Thanks mate! I am on my way to fit a akra on my 2023 SAR. I think I will take the DBs out.
did you measure dB level before and after? In Austria eg, cops can test your dB level on a street and if you are over you walk home . So doing this may be a bit tricky :-) Tx
Hey there mate. Nope I didn’t measure dB levels sorry. Maybe should have as that’s a good idea. It’s quite easy for me to do now thought as I can just stick the baffles in. Maybe I will do one soon.
I agree with you because whenever I travel in Europe I always put baffle back in for this very reason. Here in UK not so bad 👍
Thanks again for good idea
Ric
@@RicardoYeep thank you! If you have the opportunity and the time please do :) thanks a lot.
@@saraiva69tube Hey Bruno thank you very much my friend and pleased to hear it helped you out. And now have that beautiful VTwin sound it should have! :)
Many thanks
Ric
Hello Ric, greetings from Spain What rivets did you use ???
Hello mate apologies not being well. I will have to go back and check sizes for you. As been a while 👍
You may want to check out life of smokey. He used my video and made a short cut which I like. But you have to be exact otherwise you cut holes in wrong place and you’ll have useless holes. Just be careful
Great to hear from Spain 🇪🇸
Hello Jesus! Sorry again for delay. here is a link from Ebay. You need two packs becuase 12 rivets in total. If you do decided my way.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144161621301?hash=item2190b3c535:g:NyEAAOSwqzJhHmit
Dont forget Cobalt tipped dripp bits. Those stock rivets will eat drill bits. I almost did not make all in one drill bit!
Thanks
Ric
great job thank you !
Hi Franc! Great to hear from you and pleased it helped. Or was at least entertaining 😆
Cheers
Ric 🤝
Nice video. Thank you! Did you notice any difference in how engine runs vs stock. I find my 2022 SAS run a little bit "dry" and vibey at least during the break-in phase. My comparison is 2020 Gen 3 Super Duke with race Akra and tune. It is much smoother.
Hi again (just replied to your other comment).. I did have a full dyno test done to compare Stock to Akra with DB killer and also Akra without DB killer. See link below for the video. However you maybe interested in the graphs. These show max HP and Torque curves. These can be found if you got to my home page on the channel (main page) and then click "Community". Scroll all the way down and the graphs are all there.
But in short they all ran pretty much the same. However the Stock was lowest HP followed by Akra without DB killer. The Akra with DB killer came out on top but again not a lot in it. The tuner as you can see in the video did say he could make the bike run a lot better with a tune.
CHeers
Ric
th-cam.com/video/59PtLhCZGIU/w-d-xo.html
@@RicardoYeep Thanks for your reply. For me there is no such things as too much power, but with this Super Adventure bike my priority is to make it “feel’ better. I’ll need to do the map and decat in all likelihood.
Hi! Good job with explaining everything, thank you!
One question: where did you find the black caps we see on 19:17?
Hiya David ! Cheers for the feedback. And glad it helped.
The caps are here off eBay. Bit pricey but it is akrapovic I guess.
Ignore the model. They are the same
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Akrapovic-Exhaust-Rubber-Grommet-Hole-Cover-Plug-P-GUV004-13mm-Kawasaki-/153751948289?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
Cheers
Ric 👍
Great video by the way . 1 question did the can at the rivet points not have a strap that goes round the can ???
Hello my friend and thanks for watching. No there is not a strap. 👍
Very easy to do
All the best
Ric
Hi Ric
Saw that Arrow had a teaser on the website about their new slip-on Sonora, euro 5 for KTM 1290, BMW 1250, Suzuki xt 1000, Honda Africa Twin, should be nice to get some sound clips further for comparison..Staffan
Hi Stafan! Thanks for the heads up mate. I couldn’t find it but for sure would be interest in hearing one too! I’ll keep my eye out 👍
Hi, nice video.
can you tell me what kind of rivets do you use to put the exhaust cap back on?
Hello Stephane!
Genuine Akrapovic Blind Rivet Stainless Steel P-BR1 Re-Sleeve Repair x 12 KTM
I believe they are 5mm rivets. All the information I think is in the details section on the video 👍
Hi mate,
Quick one, those rivets are out of stock EVERYWHERE 😂. What size did you use prior to the fitment of the genuine ones?
Good vids mate, cheers 🤙🏻
Hello there matey! Ah shame I heard a while back too someone was asking and they said they struggled too. If you can get your hands on any 4.8mm stainless steel blind rivets then no need for Akra brand.. unless you want them. As along as stainless you are good to go.. if you struggle then any steel 4.8mm blind rivet will do to get you by until you get some stainless… but bear in mind the aggro to open the can all over again to remove the debris from the drilled out rivets if your planning to change them again if you use non stainless 👍
Thanks for watching the vid and the comment!!
Cheers
Ric
@@RicardoYeep Happy days mate, thankyou for the reply and safe riding 🤙🏻
No worries and good luck with the handy work 👍
Rick, do you find engine too vibey (buzzy) on SAS ? I dislike vibrations on mine, actually so much I don’t like riding it anymore. I feel like maybe it wasn’t as bad in the past but now at 2300 miles I don’t like it again. Or maybe it’s been like that from the beginning and I just rode my SuperDuke a lot lately. I bought Arrow catless pipe and it ran even worse with it, so I put the stock one back on. I was able to secure one of the first Rapid Bike piggy back fuelers coming to US market, and I hope to god this makes the bike run better in combination with catless pipe and Akra slip on. I think Rapid Bike is the first product to tune fueling on the new SAS. Again the disparity between LC8 on my 2022 SAS and the same LC8 on my 2020 SDR (full Akra and Akra tune) is staggering.
Morning mate!! Sorry to hear you don't like the ride as expected. I personally don't find any noticeable issues regarding vibration. I kind of expected a big vtwin to be a little vibey compared to my usual triples and in line 4s. I actually enjoy the character it has to be honest. It's an additional feel of the bike.
I know rapid bike units. It was raised as an option during my dyno test. I haven't gone down that route as my guy said it may void my warranty. As the ktm unit will log any third party units connected to it. And will be shown on ktm diagnostic when hooked up that there is or was something. So I decided to wait until my warranty was up before playing with stuff like that.
I've nearly 7k miles now still runs like a dream and never had a genuine bike fault. I don't class my fuel tap issue a bike fault.. more so a human failure to turn it on. 👍
@@RicardoYeep I did watch that video and actually reached out to RB at that time, they didn’t indicate any development at the time. But now I am waiting on the ETA, hopefully soon. I’ll let you know my thoughts once I get a chance to run it. I will admit I am sort of sensitive to this particular aspect, I even did some things to my 500EXCF to smooth things out, but single cylinder I get it. Actually, I used to be of an opinion that twins vibrate a lot too, and some ducatis of the past I didn’t like for that reason, but once I sampled Akra tuned LC8 on the Gen 3 SuperDuke I was in love ever since. Very nice engine harmonics in all gears (I don’t even use 6th much). And maybe it is the contrast of going between the bikes is the reason I can’t get over this. We shall see!
Good execution,thks.
My pleasure mate! And thanks for the feedback ! 🙏
Hi again, Ric
I just wonder if you had have any issues with riding without the db-killers or if you stick to your conclusion last time we discussed the subject.
As I then told you I have shortened the db-killers with a nice sound but the full sound of the exhaust comes when they are removed and I want that sound now.
You might say it again, I´m a little bit stubborn with my hang ups. So is it a problem or will the ECU deal with the change of exhaust flow ?
Staffan
Hiya Staffan no worries mate! As mentioned no issues at all mate. Absolutely none. I’ve removed the complete db killer and runs fine and sounds great. So stick to my conclusion 😂👍
@@RicardoYeep Hello again..and that it what matters. Engine runs smooth and with no difference from stock muffler. If there is something running lean I will notice it in how the engine runs or is it necessary with some kind of objective measurement like a Dynotest ?
Sorry, but if you don't know you get a bit confused by the answers you get from different sources, all with their own agenda. I ran the 790 adv r 19000 km without db-killer, with no problem and didn't have a thought about it just because my mechanic said; "it's no problem when you only remove the db-killer, it's when you go for full system..." but when I bought the new 1290 I became to surf the web and the brain start twisting...no define answer, more of "it depends...."
Thanks Ric.
Staffan
Hiya Staffan, the easiest way to check if you are really conserned is look at your spark plugs. Normal wear under correct engine conditions is ligh brownish. however if you are running lean your spark plugs will white/ish in colour.
I have ran all my race bikes with aftermarket exhasts and my last race bike being an R1 with twin akrapovic. I also removed the DB killer in this with no adverse affect. As with all aftermarkets these is always going to be different affects of back pressure between them (before you even remove the db killers if thats possible on some). The affect obviously without removing db killer is so immaterial it doesnt matter. By removing the DB killer is definitlely going to affect the pressure to some degree.
Its one of these situations. If it really is something your not quite satsifed with in terms of definitive answer. (As you say there are mixed opinions on the interenet). Then run it without the db killers for a while then check your spark plugs. If they are white you are running too lean. So far I dont feel any concern on my bike and will run it as it is.
The main problem will always be when you decat. and have straight through pipe.. that is a big no no unless you have a remap. But just the silencer I dont worry about that at all.
CHeers
Ric
@@RicardoYeep Ok, Ric, I just visit the Ktm-dealer and talked to my mechanic and he said like you; "don´t you worry about it, it is no problem. The stock mapping will take care of it as long as you just remove the db-killer, but when you are thinking of decating, you must remap ".
Thanks again, Ric
Staffan
Bella presentazione bravo
Thank you my friend 🙏
Salut ! Ça va ? :) Ta déjà essayé de mettre un filtre sport kn avec l’échappement ou sa vaut Pa le coup ? A bientôt merci
Bonjour mon ami. Merci pour le commentaire. Non, je n'ai pas essayé le filtre K&N, désolé. J'utilise uniquement les pièces officielles OEM de KTM. C'est quelque chose que j'essaie de faire au moins pendant quelques années alors que la moto est si nouvelle. Je pense que la moto serait mieux entretenue si les pièces utilisées étaient celles qui ont été conçues pour être livrées avec la moto. Je sais que cela peut sembler un peu ennuyeux, haha.
Ciao Ricardo. Sei bravo è tutto bello. io ho ub duke 890r. Vorrei mettergli uno scarico Akrapovic completo. Ma il problema poi se ti fermano. se fai un incidente, poi non sto tranquillo.Che ne pensi.
Ciao Francesco! È fantastico sentirti. E grazie gentile signore per il feedback positivo e per il gradimento del video. Devo ammettere che il suono è molto migliore con il DB killer rimosso. Capisco la tua preoccupazione. Poiché questo può essere considerato una modifica da parte delle compagnie di assicurazione. C'è sempre anche il rischio che la polizia faccia un test del rumore per vedere se conferma le leggi sul rumore.
Tuttavia è qualcosa con cui devi sentirti a tuo agio. Sono anni che guido e ho sempre avuto scarichi carichi o moto modificate. Finora non ho mai avuto problemi. Penso che dovresti davvero essere sfortunato per avere un problema come hai detto. Ma c'è sempre questa possibilità.
Almeno la mia guida consente la modifica che ti permette di rimettere facilmente il db killer nello scarico. Quindi se pianifichi un lungo viaggio e vuoi avere più fiducia. Quindi puoi semplicemente rimuoverli o rimetterli in qualsiasi momento. ci vogliono solo 1 o 2 minuti per tornare alla normalità.
Spero che aiuti un po '.
Grazie
Ric
where did you get those akaprovik covers to plug the holes?
Hello there. Any 13mm akrapovic rubber cover . I got off eBay.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Akrapovic-Exhaust-Rubber-Grommet-Plug-P-GUV004-13mm-Suzuki-GSX-R-750-/153788406423?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
Hope that helps
Cheers
Ric
Holes drilled 12mm
So my patience is weak and wearing thin and I’m now considering the Akro for my 1290. Keen to know how it sounds with the baffles removed (and in). Any reflections would be welcome on the sound and on a ‘anti social’ scale how offensive is it?
Hey there Bruce i hear ya mate !! Yup nothing much around and hasn’t been in months. As for the the akra db killers in sounds similar to stock can. Seriously. Db killers out (after a bit of work) sounds deep grunty. Proper V twin sound. Not an offensive sound. A warm deep tone. In fact went for that ride yesterday and mate said he was surprised at how the sound is. After watching my vid about removing the baffle he thought it would be crazy loud but it’s not . Not sure if you have seen the video section. But there are a few I think 3 vids containing exhaust note.
Cheers
Ric
@@RicardoYeep thanks. Been reading your other responses. Just need to balance impatience versus cash outlay now. £1k for a slip on is in the extreme side!!
@@brucecutts8841 hehe it is steep £££ I admit. I’ve never spent that on a can in my life until now. And probably won’t ever again. But I’ve no regrets. It’s designed for the bike and I think aesthetically looks the part. And the sound is amazing once “work” has been done
When you had the bike dyno done, did you upgrade air filter ? To a K&N
Hello! Nope everything was all OEM 👍
Is it much lighter than the standard exhaust and is it loud , I'm looking at buying a mid pipe and fitting the lamber sensor into it so I can fit another Leo Vince as I had on my 2017 model, have spoken with a friend works at Ktm in Austria and there Tech guru is 90% sure this should work , as I hate the standard exhaust worst bit about the bike.
Regards
Chris
The Akra is not much lighter (in hand) although I have not weighed it. It is lighter but does not feel materially lighter. The sound out of the box on the bike again not much in it with the db killers in compared to stock exhaust. And unlike the after markets that don't have to conform to Euro5 these DB killers are not removable as standard out the box either. However they are removable once you get access to the usual spot welded bolt as normal on all previous Akras. Just means a bit of effort getting to them as per the vid. But to answer the question on sound.. Holy moly its a big difference to stock without the db killers. Sounds deep and fat kind of thumping. Just what a a big displacement V-Twin should sound like. And to be fair I actually ride with the DB killers in depending on if I know I am going to be travelling at night. As it takes only 2 mins to put them in. Any other time though its a beast... :)
For cummuting every day would you go for the 1290 or the 890 ?
Hello Dieter. Thank you for the comment. And a very good question! Personally I think it comes down to personal confidence and also circumstance.
I am happy riding my 1290 in rush hour in central London and filtering in traffic daily (even as a short rider). So by default I would choose the 1290. Also my circumstance is that I dont want multiple bikes and the 1290 is my ultimate machine. I would be making a compromise in areas I dont want to compromise if I chose the 890. However as I said thats a personal thing.
The 1290 doesnt fell like a big bike bike when your on it and used to it. And to be honest the 890 isnt exactly a small bike. I think if you want a do all bike (not just for the commute) Then i think youd get more grins from the 1290 over the course of ownership - Its what you really want what matters I think. Any bike you end up getting used to handling it after so long
Ty for doing this. Where can I find the correct rivets and gun?
Thank u
Hello my friend! I will dig out the info.. I cannot remeber from the to of my head. Thanks Ric!
Hiya! here you go.
Rubber grommets : www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184071320603?epid=9021597376&hash=item2adb81741b:g:~B4AAOSwiGhhZUym
Rivet Gun: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393348294142
you need 12 Rivets : www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185006377532?campid=5338627314&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&toolid=10050&customid=Cj0KCQjwtrSLBhCLARIsACh6RmjG_2PrMwz-csepqzRPmxpzB-qPCcX-ul200ENzSFjwxc_UvqA3nOEaAii4EALw_wcB&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&customid=Cj0KCQjwtrSLBhCLARIsACh6RmjG_2PrMwz-csepqzRPmxpzB-qPCcX-ul200ENzSFjwxc_UvqA3nOEaAii4EALw_wcB&gclid=Cj0KCQjwtrSLBhCLARIsACh6RmjG_2PrMwz-csepqzRPmxpzB-qPCcX-ul200ENzSFjwxc_UvqA3nOEaAii4EALw_wcB
The rivets that come with the rivet gun do fit (the larger ones in the pack) however I do not think they are stainless steel
you also need cobalt tipped 5mm drill bits
Hey hey
I removed the DB killer on my 2022 SAR , it didn't sound awfully loud, however - riding without db killers in my country is illegal.
Do you reckon that removing the DB killer makes the bike super loud? I didn't find it to be too bad, and if it's not too bad cops won't really care.. I'm just wondering what do you think on the noise level.
Hello mate! Yeah to be fair it’s not too bad to begin with but when the packing in the end can starts to wear it does become quite loud and boom sounding. Just a little too much for my preference and attraction of attention. I have found that removing the lower DB killer and leaving the top one keeps the bike sounds lovely and a deep v twin grunt but without the loud bass boom 🙏👍 just my own preference of course
Cheers
Ric
@@RicardoYeep what is the end packing can? The one in the middle? Like the mid pipe? Or the one in the akrapovic? When it will become too loud I'll definitely silence it, I don't want to bother anyone too much
The packing is in the akrapovic can 👍 all the material to make it quiet. It will wear and settle over time. And with no db killer will sound louder than at the beginning when the can is new
Hi Rick, have you noticed any other exhaust manufacturer making after market cans for the 2021 SAS? I've hunted high and low and can't seem to find anyone. I'm certainly not spending £1100+ on an Akrapovic it's hideously overpriced. I had an Arrow on my last SAS and it was great but they don't seem to offer anything for the new model.
Hello Ian. Unfortunately at the moment no… it’s pretty dam slow for anyone by normal standards to now have anything out yet to be honest. However rumours are there is an Arrow can in development 👍
@@RicardoYeep Cheers fella that's encouraging
参考になりました！
No problem my friend !! Pleased to help 👍👍👍👍
Any tips on getting the carbon cap off? Having a ton of trouble
Hiya bud.. sorry not really. As you can see I sweated big time. Just effort and keeping at it. It will pull off eventually if you have removed all the rivets 👍
Would you happen to know (just by looking at it maybe?) if the new Akra for the R7 can be debaffled (the ECE one)?
It doesn't have the carbon tip cover, and it just came out so I can't find any information. Really hard to decide if I should get it.. : /
Hello there! Unfortunately the only way to get a rough idea is to look at the end outlet of the exhaust in person. If you can vaguely see a bolt through any gaps looking into the exhaust it’s a good possibility there is a removable baffle. Looking at the photos even though there is no carbon cap, there is still a cap (just not carbon) you would still be able to drill out the rivets as you can see around the strip towards the rear of the can. However I can’t say there would be a baffle to remove unfortunately. Sorry if not the info you were after ! Good luck.
Cheers
Rick
@@RicardoYeep Funny thing is the non ECE one looks like it has a visible screw in the photos : D
Thanks for the reply, I guess I'll order and pray that euro 5 didn't completely remove the 'hidden' screws...
Haha no worries mate and good luck with that one. To be honest I would be surprised if there was not a removable hidden bolt. But there could always be a first time I guess 🤞
Did you remove the cat ? Would that void a warranty ?
Hello Matt! Thanks for watching and comment! Nope I did not remove the cat... I have no intention of materially affecting back pressure to the point I need a map.. or some third party module. You are going to run pretty poor fueling without. The bike is clever enough to adapt to removal of DB killers or putting a new slip on silencer on as this is Post Cat. Back pressure change will be minimal and ECU will learn and adapt. However removing the cat for a straight through and not doing more is a no no... you will screw up you plugs and possibly more damage.
I cannot say whether just removing the cat will affect warranty. However if there is engine damage that could be traced to you doing that then I would expect it to void your warranty. Am am pretty sure diagnostics would be able to pick up how the engine is runnning "fuelling wise" when plugged into KTMs diagnostic module. Its not worth it in my opinion for very little positive gains if you value warranty. Play around later after 2 years when its finished. Just my own opinion of course.
Cheers
Ric
Hi great video are the rivets 4mm?
Hiya David thanks for watching and comment! From. Memory I think that they would be. Sounds about right if drilling 5mm holes. Was some time ago. To be fair my make shift rivets were from a pack of different sizes so I just used the ones that fit lol.. the genuine ones from AKRA are listed in the description of the video I think. 👍
4.8mm rivets I think from memory
Template of the holes would be nice save Me a lot of time - got a paypal a/c :) Edit: OK cancel that, just seen their spot welded :(
😂😂😂. Very good ! Yep unfortunately they are well and truly spot welded 😁. It’s definitely still worth it. The video doesn’t sound half as good as in real life 👍 and thanks for watching and hope you found it helpful. Cheers Ric!
How many hours do you get out of a pair of your gloves
😂 not many. I’ve bought some thicker robust ones now a little better that’s for sure 👍🫣
Hi Ricardo, tell you that yesterday I installed the akrapovic exhaust and the chek engie alarm was turned on, did the same thing happen to you?
Hi Rodrigo. No nothing at all and nothing from anyone else that’s done this. This is just the muffler. Sounds like you’ve something else going on there mate 🤔
Did you start the engine on the centre stand and run the wheel by any chance ? The yellow engine warning light will come on and stay on if you put into first gear and run the wheel on the centre stand. It will go off after a short while . Maybe a few rides it will clear. If you haven’t run the wheel on the centre stand then I don’t know why you have this warning. Changing the exhaust dB killer has nothing to do with that at all. 👍
Hi Rick thanks for the links ive got fixed up with the rivets and the plugs and ordered some 5mm cobalt drills and a 12 mm countersink. Getting a set of weights to so i can have my guns pumped up when i go for the end can pull off workout! I guess that th eDB Killers will go in easy and you use the original bolts when wanting them back in e.g. if I get pissed off with loudness or want to go to Europe re E5 rules etc and subject to pussy Macron and Merkal letting us in FFS! I hope all gos to plane will be doing it next week sometime. Cheers D
Hey Derek! No worries mate and good luck. So far the feedback has been 100% success rate of those that have followed the guide (no mention of effort involved though haha). Just be careful with that carbon cap. It will feel like a lifetime but only take minutes (10-15 or bit longer if you take a few breaks haha) and the other game is getting it back on but just take time. there is no race...
As for the DB killers I seriously suggest you grind them down a bit before you try wedging them back in once all done. I spend a good 10 mins grinding a half mil or so around the outlet edge. So now it slots in with zero effort and more importantly I can pull it back out without straining a muscle!.
Any problem feel free to mail!
Cheers
Ric
PS I agree on what you said about being able to put them back in. I have them back in right now as I am doing a lot of night or late eve riding. And excessive noise at these times is unnecessary. (Different in the city commute/motorway or odd blast out for a day with your mates or so) Sounds awesome!
Hi Riccardo, where did u find those caps to close the holes in the carbon to access to the db's screw
For the rivets was easy but cannot find the caps
@@lorenzo6375 hiya Lorenzo the caps I got off eBay. They are not cheap. I could not see many to be honest but here is a link to one I just found.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Akrapovic-Exhaust-Rubber-Grommet-Hole-Cover-Plug-P-GUV004-13mm-KTM-/184174541081?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
Hope
That helps
@@RicardoYeep appreciate it a lot big thanks
Anytime mate 👍
)))) super
Thanks 🙏
Can't you just drill the carbon cap and un bolt?
Hi Jonny. Yep that is an option which has worked for some and others not so lucky. Some have drilled the holes and have not exactly got it perfect enough to access the hex bolt. And some have got it bang on but not able to break the hex bolt weld and still needed to remove the cap. Just do whatever works for you I say. I was in no rush and wanted to do it all step by step.
Cheers
Ric
for when a video with the assembly of auxiliary lights??
Hello Rui! Thank you for messaging me! I always answer but sometime have to fit in with my day job sorry. Anyway about the auxiliary lights. Unfortunately I don’t have any and also there is a minimum 2 month wait as I just spoke to my dealer to get these so cannot show you anything. However I am just making a calculated guess and you can of course check with the dealer. My video showing how to hard wire in a SATNAV uses a switch live accessory power connection. These are located on the right side (front brake lever side) of the bike behind the air intake. There is a permanent line ACC1 labelled and switch live (only power when ignition is on) ACC2 also labelled. I am guessing these are located there in order to wire in the accessory auxiliary lights but don’t take me work for it as I am not 100%. You will in addition have to connect up the auxiliary light harness but the connectors should be oblivious hopefully when all panels are removed. As they have to connect to the main harness on the bike. Unfortunately until I have a set I can’t do anything ☹️. That’s a much help as I can be sorry but deffo have a look at my SATNAV video and it shows the power connections for accessories! Take care. Ric
Poi penso che che sia sufficente lasciarla cosi come è anche perche vengo da un honda sh 300.UN bel salto l'ho fatto. Non credi.
HAHA è un salto enorme. da un 300 a un 1290! buon per te amico mio! Che scelta incredibile. :)
Your as sore on black gloves as me 🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Is it only me.. or does it sound more quiet without the Db killers removed :) ... weird
HAHA Erm Mine is not quiet.. I have actually put mine back in for a bit 😆
I think it was a change in the position of the camera.
too the naked ear it sounds louder but but a sound meter to the laptop and its quieter mad that
pppffff the price of the akra.. and the sound ist great making holles in the carbon pppfffff i have the arrow exhaust it sounds better and the price is better. and not so big like the akra...
Hello mate and thanks for watching. I agree it's not ideal to cut into a new exhaust but after all it is OEM which makes it subject to different regs. Taste is a personal thing . Akrapovic got it spot on with this design in my opinion. The size is proportionate. But definitely agree over priced! I know the Arrow Sonora. Nice for sure. I've got an arrow on my other bike actually. But for me the official KTM product designed for this bike is the best 😁
Cheers
Ric
Much much better but the exhaust is still to big.
Cheers
Hiya! Yeah a lot better.. although I think it’s not everyone like you say. Personally I think it’s quite a balanced look. A smaller single box would look odd I think 🤔 maybe just me .
Cheers
Ric
@@RicardoYeep i think the exhaust on the superduke RR its a akra but don’t know the type, it will look good on the bike….
Thanks mate I need to check that out!
So, this should be called, "When to buy a second slip on with removable db killers".
Hiya Stephen! Haha I can see what you mean. But to be fair it’s not hard it’s just a bit of time. The DB killers are removable once you can access the bolts. Blame Euro 5 for hiding them. Also just my opinion the Akra really is design to aesthetically suit the bike. Looking at the limited options available at the moment the single pipe or slimmer style just doesn’t look right so doing this to the Akra is really the only option for a lot of folks.
Also any official performance accessory exhuast will be subject to Euro5 whether its KTM, Triumph etc.. if you want official part will always be like this.
Whilst it sounds great I'm really not sure of the social aspect of doing this sort of thing.
Society is becoming increasingly noise conscious, particularly following a few lockdowns where life generally was a lot more quiet.
Making a bike more noisy is great for us but maybe we should be considering others a bit as well these days - we all know how horrible those 4 cylinder hot hatches with the exhaust fuel injectors/deliberate backfire sounds - we would be perceived in exactly the same way I think.
Good morning Nigel and thank you for your time taken to watch my channel. And I think it is a fair comment you make. And thank you for it! 👍
My guide is intentionally not getting into the moral aspect of whether you should or shouldn't. I was actually going to say something during the clip about this. However I avoided the "hot topic" for the main reason being that there are loads of after market exhaust options made by other brands (or soon to be as this is a new model). And the kind of people that are going to remove the standard exhaust and purchase an after market product will already have the option of removing these components (DB Killers) straight from the box anyway as standard. Whether they wish to remove or not.
As after market products do not have to conform to the same regulations as you would do when selling it as part of an official component of a brand new vehicle (licensed official OEM part). As is the Akrapovic.
What I have shown here simply makes the exhuast equal to others that are legally available to buy. And in addition there are also other guides available online how to achieve this and not only mine. And this will be the case year after year until internal combustion bikes are no more.
With what I class as the golden era of biking slowly dying and has limited life span. The time where you can hear the engine, smell the fumes and feel the heat... And we all will have to be riding electric bikes. I believe its better to be seen "and" heard (within reason). I do 22,000 miles a year in all weather. Trust me that filtering in gridlock motorway nobody sees you when they open the door to see whats happening ahead. But they definitely hear you from a few cars lengths away approaching from behind without the db killer.
I would just enjoy the time left. There are always going to be PC brigade on the look out. And that will never change my friend.
And also thank you for keeping your comment well explained and constructive. And expressing your view without insult or ill manner toward the individuals that choose to do this. 🤝
Thanks Ric 👍🙏
@@RicardoYeep You'r a legend Ric, great constructive comments from the both of you. 😃 🏍💨
Im very triggered because it is pronounced Akrapovitch and not Akrapovik!
Hello mate. Yeah I have already been corrected on this poor mistake. I and possibly many others also pronounce it incorrectly. But I know now. Too late though as the video already produced. But my apologies! no offence intended.
However a big thanks for taking the time to watch my video. Cheers Ric
@@RicardoYeep "potayto potarto, tomayto tomato...lets call the whole thing off" -- LOL, who cares, great instructional vid. Where do you get the rubber akra grommets and what size drill bit did you use to get the rivetts out ????
@Jon Elvidge hello Jon cheers mate for the comment and liking the vid. The info is all in the description section below the video. Which contains more info. Hope that helps. But from memory it’s a 5mm cobalt tipped HSS and I be safe need two as those stainless steel rivets are tough. The caps I got from eBay seller. The hole cutter to make the holes for the caps are 12mm. I just used a dewalt countersink tool which was the perfect size as shown in the video . Hope that helps 👍
Stupid American question here: why do all of that for a 1,200 GBP Akro?
I put a Yoshimura RS4 on my 2019 SAS for about 500 USD. The dB killer was included, but has to be user installed...no surgical procedure required. It sounds amazing, saves >5 pounds in weight, boosts power (like that even really matters), but most importantly, it sounds amazing. I still have the stock can in case I want it to irritate my neighbors less, but haven’t swapped it back 2 years later.
Is something like a Yosh slip on outright banned in 🇬🇧, even post-Brexit?
Hi Jaron! Thanks for watching and you comment. Not a stupid question at all. Any other exhaust which is not OEM fit does not have to adhere to Euro5 regulations on noise limits. requirements are getting stricter every year. However Akrapovic have not changed their design regarding the baffle bolts. They are still removable! It just seems as a quick win they simply stopped producing the access holes in the side to remove them....
But yes like you say other exhausts you would not need to do this work... However due to personal taste some (like me) think the Akrapovic aesthetically was designed and suits this bike better than what is available. And with the baffles removes it is a warm deep grunt.... Really nice. But again personal taste!
Also at least my method allows quick install of the baffles within minutes for those "quieter" times like you say :)
Cheers!
Ric
@@RicardoYeep makes sense to me. Thanks for the explanation. Cheers!
@@jaronard1 no problem mate! And thank you again 🤝
Please dont use "Akrapovik", it is Akrapovič (Č like CZ in Czcech).
Hiya Boris! Yeah sorry mate it’s a bad habit of mine hard to change after many years 👍🙏
@@RicardoYeep this might help: it is "Akrapovich" like in "Rich", not - unfortunately - like in "Ric" (sorry mate... 🙂) (BTW and yes, you are absolutely right that we are nitpicking and seem to be kinda forgetting the fact that you have just presented us w an awesome video of neurosurgery of some bloody expensive part of an expensive bike which most bikers only can dream of owning .. that's the charm of the internet! 😂)
Its A-KRA-PO-VICH . Not Akrapovik
Haha 😂 yes I know mate. I’ve been told numerous times since I’ve posted this video 🙏🤦♂️ I’ll never forget now trust me 😂
Too much work for a sound increase that hurts the environment .
Hiya Carlos! Yep is a little work but no big deal. Everyone is different I guess. However this video is 2 years old. I have since purchased the Super Adventure R and also a new Akrapovic. I think will leave this exhaust as it is for now
Nem akrapovik, hanem akrapovic!😆
haha I know.. I know... I have been corrected already :)
Whining sound
Such an ugly exhaust
Hi Garett, Thanks for stopping by! much appreciated. And I get your opinion for sure mate! Ugly to some yet beautiful to others. But I guess that can also be said of the bike itself to be fair. I thought the KTM headlights were ugliest creation ever on a bike but I love them now. Strange huh! Even folks that see something as ugly that only a mother could love can completely think different later on!
Cheers and again thanks for popping by
Ric!