Why I'm Ditching Review Scores
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2020
- Why have I always used a 7-point system? What's wrong with review scores? What are some of my long-winded opinions on video game reviews in general? Sorry, even if you only want the answer to one of those questions, you're getting them all.
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/ arlostuff
TWOOTER: @ArloStuff
BOOKFACE: ArloStuff
This video was edited by the lovely Kane!
/ farfetchdreviews
Additional footage credits:
drive.google.com/file/d/1mWi2...
"Reloaded Installer #11" by LHS.
/ @lhschiptunes - เกม
I won't really miss the scores, but I'll miss the tiny dancing Arlo.
Litterally my exact same thoughts it was always plesant
same
That's the real casualty in this situation right here.
Yeah
He should put them at the end of review videos for the heck of it
I won't miss the scores, I'll miss the Arlos beneath the scores
Same
Exactly
SAME
same
My friend, do I have the gif banner of a blog post for you!
the-avocado.org/2018/02/15/the-arlo-day-thread/
If I were less lazy I'd cut the gif up into separate Arlos to serve as some thoroughly worthwhile emotes...
But I am as lazy as I am, so there you are, job for a more industrious individual I guess.
I'll be honest, I thought the Arlos on the 7 point review scale were just dancing.
I thought until I got curious about how they were dancing and decided to watch each other one
I think 6 and 7 he dances, especially 7 lol
Agree, they were small enough or not separated enough that I did not distinguished they represented the different attitudes towards the game in question. Still I love Arlo's reviews becuase he explains why he likes or dislikes something and I am better able to consider if that is something I would like.
I like how ProJared used to rate games: instead of a number, he used an object or an experience to rate/describe his feelings towards a game. For example, Kid Klown in Crazy Chase got a Bee Sting/10, because the game was short, painful, and seemed to last longer than it actually did, like a bee sting.
Or what about the Sseth review system?
"I give this game a completely random, but quantifiably high score, which can only be expressed on a graphical calculator."
@@Tubuxis That works too, lol.
GOOD WORK KANE
Too bad ProJared is....y'know.
@@arigat-s0244 cringe
I love how everyone, including myself, is more concerned about the removal of the Tiny Dancing Arlos rather than the actual system.
rip dancing Arlo's
@@tjmalanga4986 They were fun. May they live on as Gifs.
It was the only product that could successfully compete with Tiny Desk Engineer unless you consider the indie product Tiny Desk Gray Wolf. But now with Tiny Dancing Arlo out of the picture the market is losing it's variety and consumers are left unhappy.
The only reason I was disappointed of this video
Could always look at old videos with them
The 7/10 mindset comes from the school system, where anything under that is usually a failing grade. People have essentially been brainwashed into thinking numerical ratings are more weighted than they should be.
and THAT weighting comes from over-reliance on true/false and multiple choice metrics. a literal random guess on a TF test can get you a 50%, thus getting 60% means you missed a lot more than it appears, doing only slightly better than pure guessing. It just barely gets better with ABCD. The best tests are the hardest to grade however (being free answer/essay/show your work), requiring the most work to actually grade+understand how well student understands the work. you cant just send those through the grading machine
@@deefdragon Bro I took a test yesterday for a subject I had no clue about. I had no idea what half the questions were asking about but with basic process of elimination and inferences I GOT ALL OF THE MULTIPLE CHOICE QUESTIONS CORRECT
@Kunoros Hound of Athreos what?
Agreed, atleast in the US the Grading scale heavily influences everyone. I grew up in a state where there was a 7 Point Letter grade system. Meaning Anything less than a 70 is failing.
What? Getting below 40% is a fail where I’m from
Another important point: people often compare games based on just their review scores. Like, even games from different genres or games that got their scores for completely different reasons. It's impossible to say whether one game is 'objectively better' than the other just because it got a higher score.
Because DUH, obviously if MY Yu-Gi-Oh TCG game from 18 years ago and from a GBA console has an 8, it's WAAAAY better than the 2021 Switch Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury, that just barely got a 7.
Yeah.
(?)
@@erik19borgnia nostalgia factor exist
Remember how people compared IGN's review scores of God Hand and Imagine Party Babyz?
Yes, but I would (nicely) argue that blurs the lines even more? The main point of a score is simply convenience; many people for what loss for the cause or not simply do not have the time to fine combe and mull through a persons 1 to 2 hours of stand up speech and assessments. That's why you have Like/dislike buttons; many just leave the Courtesy Like, zap to the end to see the Score and they're done. If the score then peaks their interest, they will return to indulge and dig for the meat n potatoes.
@@netweed09 Not a fan of that. Either you watch a review or not. A number tells you nothing, people's interpretation of the same number also varies wildly. Reviews aren't 1-2 hours, analysis videos are, but those are aimed at people who are already interested in the subject.
Man... I can't believe Arlo abandoned his scoring system specifically because he's bad a ring puzzles.
So silly 😂😂
“I give *you*, my friend, a seven out of seven” gave me a rush of childish joy
I smiled so big
Hmmmmmm I don't know, I think we deserve a 7.0000000000001 out of 7. It's like he's not even trying.
@@ianmathewson4714 pfff
YEAH
Just like those koroks huh
You could keep the arlos by going "Here's how I feel this game:"
[Insert animated Arlo with no score here]
I would like that. GameXplain does something similar where they don't score the game but say whether or not they like it and to which degree. No "7/10" but "I liked it." No "9/10" but "I liked it a lot."
“Really? You only danced by shaking your head? I would’ve at LEAST thrown a shimmy or two in there.”
But then he might have to figure out unique dancing for each new review so it doesn't become predictable....
If he keeps the same dances, people would just start seeing them as the numbers they previously represented.
Oh yeah! That's actually a pretty good idea if he was down for it. It takes away from the whole precise numbers thing and takes advantage of Arlo's charm.
I always like Jeremy Jahn’s rating system, which includes such gems as “good time, alcohol required” and “would buy it on blu-ray”
Someone needs to make GIFs of those tiny Arlos to use as reaction images. We can’t let the flame die out.
Its actually such a good point about the 5/10 score. I've always thought its crazy that something with a 5/10 is basically considered unacceptable instead of representing something average or medium. I feel like a 7/10 holds the place a 5 is supposed to.
5/10 literally means average
I mean YMS use 5 to mean mediocre, though according to American grading system, that's an F
@@ionlydrinkjesusmilk7256 woah crazy the MAL rating system is exactly what I thought of here too!
@@Tacom4ster exactly I think that’s why people think 5 is bad
I think it just follows the system we have in schools where a 7/10 is a C which means passing, 8/10 means average (B), and 9/10 means quite enjoyable (A), and 10/10 is amazing (A+).
I can't believe Arlo complained about animating the score, and then took the time to do it... Just for us! What a great guy
But... didn't Kane edit this video...?
I cant believe he took the credit for something that Kane clearly does :D
They had us in the first half not gonna lie
Arlo is so wholesome! He saved his last ever score for us! So nice of him to do that for us! I can't wait for the next review or whatever he posts next!
You're illustrating one of the big issues of today's society, the fact that people are now apparently incapable of showing any shred of respect to someone who disagrees with them
the reasoning is something like this :
I know I am a smart person and this is my opinion, therefore anyone with a different opinion HAS to be an idiot
this attitude needs to disappear to allow conversation and debate to become respectful again
Cedrick Rozon Exactly. Such a mindset pervades the far left democrats. It’s why Resetera literally banned Angry Joe for giving Last of Us 2 under the guise of “bigotry toward LGBT”. They’ve even banned people for merely daring to say they believe not all cops are evil. Nope. You have to drink the kool aid and no deviation from their fanatical views will be tolerated. Any who dissent are “evil racists”.
@@ActionJaxonH
"far left democrats"
"far left"
"democrats"
pick one lmao
@@ActionJaxonH There's a lack of respect on both sides of the political spectrum right now, which is the base of the issue, Politics is supposed to be about meeting in the middle, not about threatening anyone you disagree with
He's wanting to diminish the chance of heated arguments and hate from his comment section, not discourage civil debates. Too many seek out fights on the internet and Arlo is just trying to do what he can to avoid fueling such.
@@SkyelreMinecraft And honestly, Arlo is a place of sanction or safety from such things.
TH-cam just asked me to score the recommendation of this video, in the inherent problems with scores. Ironic.
Nice
Arlo always emphasises how there are other people much smarter than him, but I think everything he said in this video shows that he's pretty darn smart.
I'd say admitting that you're not very smart, is the mark of a very smart person. Ignorant and closed-minded people fail to look for other people's perspectives and understand how much they actually don't know.
...As a result they are happier. Smart people realize that compared to the world, they are stupid in SOME way.
@@gyroc1_ I love the sense of relief that brings.
It's called "being humble".
gyro c one It’s called Imposter Syndrome and it’s the opposite of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.
The whole "people think a 5/10 is unacceptable" thing is most likely based on the school grading system, where a 7/10 is a C, so average, and a 5/10 is an F, so a fail
maybe not, here in australia 5/10 is still a pass (c). ive never liked american grading system :[
Yes- to me, 1-5 is the bad half and 6-10 is the good half, 6 just being passable
It makes sense in terms of a binary “how many were right” but if you do ratings based on placement on a bell curve 4 of 7 is what the most of them would be and therefor it’s solid.
I agree this difference doesn’t land mentally with people and it causes problems. Like yeah if I give you 10 questions on a topic and you know the answer to 4 of them, you probably have a very poor understanding and aren’t ready to build on that. But if it’s a game, 4 of 10 is right below average. I play 4 of 10 on a bell curve games all the time and enjoy them
That's why I prefer the Gamexplain rating system (don't like, like, like a lot, etc).
That actually sounds really accurate. I think that might be why
Yeah, I completely agree Arlo. People get so caught up in the number and use it as some piece of evidence to fuel arguments about a game.
I will miss the dancing Arlos though.
Arlo, all we humbly request is for you to make publicly available a gif of the 7 emoting Arlos. Perhaps each of them separately as well if you could be so kind.
This is the way
After all these years, i just now noticed that the little Arlos beneath the review's score actually represent each one of the ratings, and are not just doing funny little dances...
Same here, although one time I tried to briefly decipher it and gave up due to the short time they are on screen. I think it would've made more sense to make 7 different static Arlo drawings expressing an emotions, and possibly even color-coded them too. Doesn't matter now though, the Arlo congo line of emotions is gone. Honestly, I'm fine with that too.
Most of them aren't technically dancing, but when you put that many animations next to each other, they always look like dancing.
Send my regards to Kane, he looks like a neat guy.
Ditto
th-cam.com/users/FarfetchdReviews
@@diegorr8378 Thanks for the info
❤️❤️❤️
Lynch told me otherwise.
I never knew the little Arlos represented his feelings. I thought they just danced
"If you want a good review, have a good game at launch."
Well said.
That utterly defeated look while working on the Origami King review...hang in there! 🤣😭
Kane is dead inside
That's what I thought
I’m sorry but I strongly oppose this decision. I agree with everything you say in the video but I am worried about the mini arlos. I know Covid is tough but I don’t want you lay off any workers. I am deeply concerned for the health and safety of these arlos so I am sorry to say I do NOT support your decision.
UNDERRATED COMMENT
You had me in the first half not gonna lie
very pog
@@SuperCrazyfin same here
So you just miss the arlos?
EXCUSE ME ARLO!? YOU GAVE ME A 7, I ONLY DESERVE AT THE MAXIMUM A 5, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY PROBLEMS I HAVE
I agree, I mean even your name has Glitches in it, so I'm pretty sure 7 out of 7 is unfair.
I don’t even think I deserve a 2
Arlo: "I have never given a game a 1"
Me: Only because you never technically reviewed Sticker Star.
I still don't think it's a 1,prob a 2
I’d give it a 3 personally
I say in his own old review score system, Sonic 06 would be a 1 and Sticker Star would be either a 2 or a very HIGH 1
13:46 “A game is not a person, it doesn’t deserve anything”
Perfect
I just wanted to say right now that I love Sonic and the Secret Rings.
If it doesn't deserve anything then why would I give away my money to purchase it??
@@Zeriel00 because you deserve to entertain yourself with your hard earned money, or just cause your grandma loves you.
@@Zeriel00 I mean by definition purchasing something isn't "giving away" your money
@@Pureheartt13 I thought you were going to say Sonic 06 and I almost found someone in the 0000000000.1% I think that’s less than one person.
Schools I would say are definitely to blame for that rule of 7. Getting 70 on a test means you did "average" or "Good enough"
Makes sense why People associate scoring that way
Schools are to blame for many issues, and this one makes sense like the other issues.
There are some countries where 7 is the maximum score for school gradings; but I grew up in a country where school grades are in a scale from 1 to 100, with 60 being the minimum to approve; and yes, it really affects the perception of the review scores.
Yeah 5/10 at school is just like a 1/10. It's really out of 5 since they only use 5 letters, but even then a D is a failure too, so it's really a scale of 4. 1/4 sucks, 2/4 is average, 3/4 is ok, and 4/4 is perfect.
Yep.
100-90 - A
x90-80 - B
x80-70 - C
x70-60 - D
x60-00 - F
A completely worthless system design to punish and keep people in line since it was NEVER about education in the first place, so people grow up with a screwed up sense of value to begin with.
Yes... Numbers are attachable to feelings/emotions.
I live in the U.S, and ever since I started getting grades of C- and under on exams or major assignments back in high school, almost every
This channels sense of humor alone is a reason to watch
Really well-made points, I largely agree. One thing I hate more than critic scores, are user scores. Apart from review-bombing, so many scores come with the description "My actual score is a 6, but I gave it a 10 to balance out all the wrong reviews"; WHICH MISSES THE ENTIRE POINT OF AGGREGATE SCORES.
I actually find scoring systems flawed to begin with. I prefer a brief summary of the pros and cons, and why they feel this way. A lot of people only play a game halfway, and slap a score on it. This isn’t as reliable as a brief explanation of why.
That's not a problem with scoring systems, that's a problem with reviewers. If you use a ruler incorrectly, the measuring system isn't broken, it's that you didn't properly measure.
Same here. A score is fine at a glance, but knowing *why* a game received that score is far more important to making a decision on whether or not to purchase.
@@NintenDub I'm inclined to disagree. The general playerbase that comes in a week later is far worse in the way of reviews. With toxic concepts such as review bombing and hating a game based on the most minute things, players are far too emotional and reactionary to be trusted as reliable review sources. I'd take a professional reviewer any day. Since they also have to disclose whether or not they've been paid for the review, that can help gauge things too (although most are giving their genuine opinions despite constant accusations that reviewers are bought out for good reviews).
Agreed. With films too. I couldn't care less about the score someone sticks on something, especially since a lot of the things I dislike and like about things may differ from what other people dislike and like about things... And that is the case in many places, things that one reviewer hates I might not mind or even love, something one reviewer loves I might not like very much or outright hate/disagree with.
I'd rather someone just tell me what they like and dislike about a game and pinpoint a few other things they may deem as notable and that's all we need.
Same
I always liked your 7 point scale. It was basically asking the question, "Is this a good game?" And the answer would be as follows :
1 - Strongly disagree
2 - Disagree
3 - Somewhat disagree
4 - Neutral
5 - Somewhat agree
6 - Agree
7 - Strongly agree
I feel like such a basic score is good, but I prefer Arlo not having to worry about scores 😁
Yeah, it was a great scale. The reason I like scores is that I get a broad idea of the quality a game has, whereas the reviews that don't have it a lot of the times don't get the point across. I can understand the virtues and faults of a game, but if you don't tell me how they relate to each other, I may leave the review without knowing if I want the product. The point of the scores is to tie all up, that's why they are important, even if it's not possible to give an objective answer.
That's what I thought too!
I completely agree except I would change the question from, “is this a good game?” to, “did Arlo like this game?”
If I were to review Dark Souls I’d have to admit that it’s very well-made, but I do not like playing it myself. We should all try to find reviewers whose opinions we generally agree with and listen to their recommendations to get an idea of whether or not we’ll like that thing, rather than look at some industry-wise aggregate of a thing’s supposed objective “quality.”
@@Mati303s That's true, but good review have a sum up at the end telling exactly that : did the reviewer consider the game good ?
So hopefully you will get an alternative to scores here.
I never got the idea of 5/10 being bad either: I always thought of it as meaning a game either has little to no truly good or bad qualities, or it has too many problems to be considered good but too many positives to be considered bad; if its quality amounts to being middle of the road, it only makes sense to rate it at the middle of the scale. My interpretation of the 0 to 10 scale is this: 0 is bottom of the barrel, 1 is abysmal, 2 is awful, 3 is pretty bad, 4 is below average, 5 is average or mediocre, 6 is okay to decent, 7 is solid, 8 is great, 9 is amazing, and 10 is a masterpiece; this way, the scale is actually balanced and logical, but apparently most people are viewing this the same way as grading in school, where anything below 70% is an F, and that never made sense to me. I remember once getting into a debate about if Breath of the Wild is good or not with someone who considered themselves a Zelda purist, and one of the points they made against the idea of Zelda games doing anything differently (I think, I can't see how else it would be relevant) was that the DS Zelda games were both a 5/10, and they would then call them trash; to them, I’m sure that's what 5/10 meant, but to me, that was downright contradictory to say. Come to think of it, that might be why The Geek Critique said that Sonic Adventure 2: Battle, Sonic Adventure DX, and Sonic Heroes were critically panned; if you don't know, he makes reviews, or Critiques as he calls it, which I enjoy, but there are some occasional things that can best be described as questionable, such as how he claimed the Adventure GameCube rereleases and Heroes were all critically panned when upon release in his Shadow the Hedgehog Critique, when in reality, the reception seems to have been mixed; in fact, SA2B and Heroes got over 70 points on Metacritic, which is almost enough to have generally positive reviews by their standards, so it's possible that either those ratings don't reflect the critically reception they actually got or he considers 5-7/10 bad.
I think it's because there is no reason to play a mediocre game over an excellent one.
One could also consider many NSMB games as mediocre, and another could consider Shrek 2 (GameCube) as mediocre. Someone else might think that Mario Party 9 is less than average, and another could think the same of the Bee Movie Game, and think that Mario Party 9 is just average.
To me, 4 and below signifies a bad game, and one you should avoid. 5 signifies a game that you should only play if you are very interested, otherwise it might be a waste of money. 6-7 seem like general fun (think Wii Sports) or games that satisfy a niche, but not much more (think Picross). 8-10 are games that everyone should play, and are guaranteed to be enjoyable.
To me, I wouldn't consider SA2B or Heroes to be critically panned. Your friend says to me that only friends of 2D Zelda would enjoy the DS Zelda games enough to be worth the money.
The main issue of scores seems to be no-one agreeing on how good a score is, and games only being considered worthy of purchase if they score 7 or above - obviously, if something is scored less than that, it won't be purchased by the general public, and the franchise won't get too many more fans.
@@miimiiandco.8721 act like player himself isn't mediocre huh during school 🤭
Old comment but it's probably because of conventional school grading systems. Getting a C or 70% is seen as average and anything below that is getting note home from your teachers and a scolding from your parents lol. It's infiltrated every rating system we have and I don't see it going anywhere until school rating systems are changed entirely.
I'll miss the mini Arlos more than the actual scoring itself. Your reviews have always been great! And you can tell in your voice when youre reallly excited about a certain aspect in a game, its adorable.
6:43 "How many games out there are actually, truly perfect?" Um, Arlo, you're really forgetting about Garfield Kart here.
crazy frog kart was better
Jambo safari
Pie
"Looking for literal perfection is just... why?:
Couldn't of put it better Arlo
nothing is perfect, because everyone has their own opinion of what makes a game good. For example some people might think cuphead is bad because the gameplay is too challenging for them, that just means its not their type of game or some other thing. but for me cuphead is so good, i decided to s rank all the bosses with default weapon only and i think its the best game ever.
You’re 100% correct about scores. I never thought much about it before, but looking back it’s obvious that they have to go because of how sensitive we humans can be. And while I won’t miss the scores, I will miss the little Arlos. Thank you for giving them one final hurrah in a humorous and heartwarming way! The Arlo Way! 😉
I've been playing video games for decades and I really regret letting review scores dictate so much of what I played or didn't play for so many years. They can have such a profound psychological impact on my own personal enjoyment of a game that I've mostly stopped paying attention to them. Enjoying games is always more nuanced and more personal than a single number can convey. I wish more reviewers thought like you, Arlo.
Alro: "it's all worth it I promise"
Kane: "Existence is Pain"
Ditch the scores, but for the love of god please leave the little dancing Arlos at the end of your videos/reviews
YES
Yes!
Agreed.
They still express opinion enough.
They need to be repurposed, we cannot lose such a gem.
YES this solves the problem
I’ll still be watching! Your well-thought-out points are way more valuable in helping me decide which games to spend my money on than any number is.
I think your decision is right! For example: Game Two is a German Gaming Show where they never show scores. They just say if they recommend a game or don’t recommend it and for wich People that Game could be a Good Choice.
Hey Arlo, it’s less of people have been taught to think anything less than a 10 is bad, it’s more of ever since we were kids, we were told 100 were A+, a perfect score, and then 90 is a B, etc. I think that’s why the numbers 5 or below mean awful. Doesn’t matter how low you get after that, 50 or below has always been an F. Just my two since
I'd never thought about it before, but honestly that's a really smart way to think about it. When so many of us grew up on a system where 90's are great, 80's are alright, 70's are meh, and almost anything below that is regarded as bad to the point where a 20 and a 55 are almost indistinguishable, it probably affects our subconscious views of those numbers in regards to scores and such
its "two cents" by the way, not "two since". Not trying to be a grammar nazi, just letting you know for future
What people don't understand about that is that in school the scoring is based on a more concrete measurement. You only got 50% of the questions on the test right? Well that means you must not have actually studied. Whether you agree with that is up to you, but you can see how someone can come up with that.
Rating movies, games, books, etc like that doesn't work because it's not very concrete. Again it goes back to what Arlo and many others have said, that the scoring system on video games, and really most mediums, doesn't make much sense. It's better to explain how you feel about a piece of media
You're totally right. So many educational systems use a percentile grading scale, and teachers frequently give individual assignments a score out of 10 that aligns with the percentile.
If I did reviews, I'd give a score from 1 to 5, because it gets away from the base 10 systems yet still has meaning to people, since 5 it's a commonly used number. It's also easier for them to accept 3 as average rather than unsatisfactory. Also, it's not super specific and nitpicky, provided you don't use decimals.
That said, there are many acceptable ways of doing it, and reviewers shouldn't be obligated to cave to pressure on something like this. If you don't like a reviewer's scores, go find a reviewer whose tastes more closely with with your own. No review is universal.
@Bryce Sherman I wasn't trying to say his point is wrong, but explaining why the grading system and video game reviews aren't compatible. The grading system is already flawed, so when you take that and apply it to something that isn't compatible it just becomes a worse system
I imagine some of the problems with review scores come from school, where anything below a 60 is failing and “good” only really starts at 80.
For the record, I really appreciated your 7 point scoring system and the animated Arlos that went with it. For me it accomplished exactly what you set out to accomplish.
At the same time, I totally get why you're dropping the scores.
THANK YOU!
I'm a day late here, but it always makes me happy to see a reviewer ditch review scores. I was happy when SomecallmyJohnny did so back and 2010, and in 2020 I'm happy when Arlo does.
One point I want to hit up on is why people get so defensive: people think opinions can be objective. A lot of people will be convinced they have the formula of objective, universal criticism and will then try to explain why someone who came to the "wrong" conclusion is so wrong. You can see this with fans of certain reviews (not naming any names, but you can probably guess who I'm talking about) in that they'll actually very polite s but will become quite aggressive should the "opposition" try to stand their ground. Because to them, opinions can double as facts (e.i. become objective opinions) once they make enough logical sense™️. Combine that with how this mentality lends itself to confirmation bias, and you have people who REALLY don't like reviews guilty of wrong think.
Change is inevitable, change is good. Arlo will remain one of the best
Well said Kim
Too bad you won’t change your country
@Ice Goomba Sorry my bad.
ALL HAIL KIM JONG UN!
Good to know that Kim Jong-un likes good content
Hey u watch damien lee
It's all about that /20 X5 scale system...that's...ughhhh... simple?
Oh hai SwitchUp
hello switchup
Love this.
I love your channel too SwitchUp.
I'm a loyal viewer there.
pleasant to see you guys here glen, or mark ?
You guys make it wooooork.
I support your decision, ARLO. I rarely pay attention to your number system anyhow. Your enthusiasm and careful explanations are good enough to get a jist. I applaud!
I like scores for specific categories. Like rating graphics differently from mechanics, and even adding categories that are unique to remakes and franchises.
I like numbers, but I also understand that most people don't interpret them correctly or take into account the person doing the reviewing. I tend to look at a list of reviews of games that I have personally played, then look at their review of the game I'm interested in and then adjust their ranking based on how well I think their opinion generally agrees with mine.
This leads to some funny situations where I am willing to try a game that gets a low score simply because I know that I disagree with a reviewer most of the time, I think there's a good chance that I will like a game that they dislike. Same goes for movies.
When the Origami King review is gonna be so harsh that Arlo changes his entire review process for it lmao
That's the tea. But I'm ready for a harsh review.
origami king was a divisive game.. people either loved it or hated it.
@@otherlego it seems to be that way ever since Super PM, which is still kind of sad. Loved Super tho'.
@@Allister23 There are people who disliked Super’s gameplay but _loved_ its story. I can’t think of anybody from the N64 Era that likes anything about Paper Mario post-Wii.
“Even a 7 is considered a mediocre score”
I’m having DAMN. flashbacks...
6.8 too much water
-IGN
Justice for MBDTF, fellow melon-head.
This whole video, while not directed at Anthony, could be a callout post for him lmao
I had no idea journalists were dealing with this and it explains a lot. I look forward to your future reviews.
Here's an idea: make all review scores binary. 0 or 1 representing whether the reviewer determines the game is competently made or not. This is the only objective scoring method. The score would be accompanied by an in depth critique, but the score would only be reflective of the competency of the game rather than subjective quality.
@crazy silly nah, that's too subjective. Now, I'm not saying that my binary system is totally free from subjectivity, it is a rating after all. Once you start throwing around words like "good" and "bad", all objectivity that the score could represent goes out the window. Also, this is would mainly be to mess with score aggregators and force people to pay attention to the actual content of the review, which would still be reflective of the reviewer's subjective experience with the game.
I’d say expand that to a 0-2 scale. 0 is basically unplayable or it doesn’t start. 1 is playable but buggy to the point where it impacts the experience, and 2 is competently made.
@@cubedmelons876 wouldn't it be more fair to say -1 to 1. A bad game gets a negative score a good game gets a positive score. 0 being an average grade or a more subjective game.
e.g.
Sticker Star [-1]
Majority opinion states this game is bad, more bad about the game OBJECTIVELY than good. Poorly made
Colour Splash [0]
Large divide in opinions about game, Arguments for both positive and negative - how good the game is SUBJECTIVE
Thousand Year Door [1]
Majority opinion states this game is good, more good about the game OBJECTIVELY than bad. Well made
In the end review scores are there for the reader to see and then read the actual review and understand why the think the reviewer gave the game the score. More or less the score is the teaser trailer.
@@Logicalleaping The kind of scale we're talking about is based on whether the game actually works or is too buggy. The score is supposed to be as objective as possible. For example, on my scale, Simcity 2013 would've gotten a 0 at launch, since it was so broken that it flat-out didn't work. Fallout 76 would be a 1, since it technically starts but is so buggy that the bugs severely impact the experience. 2 would be something that works fine. And the actual review would be to discuss the quality.
Me before starting the video: OK, just don't get rid of the 7 point scale
Me at 8:18: NOOOOOOOO!
Me at 8:26: Nevermind I’m good with it.
I will always miss the tiny Arlos, but this video still gets a 7/7 from me.
Arlo #7 makes me so happy
@@BryanWithAnI Agreed!
I say 692.76/1000.2
@@kaielmacmillan9258 ign in 2050
Thank god that was actually seen as the joke it was
Can you please put a little dancing Arlo about how you feel about the game though,, we need the small Arlos
I never came hear for the scores anyways, it was always nice to hear thoughts on games and news and whatnot.
I may miss the scores al little, largely due to missing the little emoting Arlos at the end, but you bring up some good points and if you're ultimately happier and less stressed without the scores? Then that's a good thing.
Idea: remove the numbers, keep the mini Arlos
yes ٩( 'ω' )و
Actually a good idea. Having the expression shown without a numeric value shown is easier to connect.
I personally love a good picture of a pros and cons list way more than I should....
Although I'm going to miss the small Arlos dancing, I think this is a very wise decision. Great video!
Scores or not, I’m just glad to see you appearing directly in your videos again. The quality has definitely improved and it’s more enjoyable to watch from start to finish!
You know, at first I was like "nooooo you can't get rid of scores, its always so fun trying to guess what your gonna give it" but you made some good arguments. I think it does open up more meaningful discussion to not give a score.
I’m fine as long as we get access to the score Arlos as gifs
Best idea of the 21st century
Thank you for the great video Arlo!
It honestly makes sense. I can tell that watching your reviews will be much more enjoyable without the looming shadow of an ending that completely reduces the whole experience to a single number.
It brings much more emphasis to subjectivity and appreciation for the actual work the developers put into the game. In other words it would make even reviewing the game a delightful experience.
Much love. Keep it up Arlo.
While seeing a numbered review score is kind of addicting, pin pointing a review to a specific number doesn't do anything useful for anyone and even games with high scores won't satisfy everyone. There are plenty of 9 or 10 out of 10 games that I just plain don't like at all due to my own tastes. Everyone's take away is going to differ so why try to define a game with such a specific number that no one will really agree on. It's all just splitting hairs.
I find the only useful kind of score system is a broad 5 point system. No half points or anything. Just stick with general tiers of quality.
5. Revolutionary or near perfect execution
4. Great. Maybe it doesn't do anything new but it's solid across the board or has a few minor flaws that will hold it back for many
3. Decent or flawed experience that's worth trying if you're open to it
2. Mediocre or heavily flawed
1. Just plain bad
Was just thinking while watching this about Glass Reflection the anime youtuber.
He used to do numbered scores, but after a while switched to more general recommendations to “skip it”, “stream it” or “buy it”, and gave the best shows a “certified frosty”. Kind of conveys better that it’s a personal recommendation and not a mark of objective quality.
Hey Design Doc love your stuff and I'm happy to see you here!
Personally I don't really like review scores for "objective" reviews because usually they won't matter to me necessairly what the reviwer thinks about the game, I have my own tastes and usually I like more to know what are the crucial points of a game that I should be paying attention to.
Still I don't mind recommendation from youtube personalities like you and Arlo and I feel the simple 5 point system is good enough to explain one's feelings for a game
I agree, a 10 point system is just too broad. Recomended games usually get a 7-10 which makes 0-6 kinda useless since they can be summarised as bad anyway. A 5 point system makes it also more easier and accurate to review games
The problem is that reviewers don't understand the concept of a scoring system. It's the EXACT same thing as a grading system. You don't reward it points for doing good things. You treat it like you do grading a math test. It starts at 100% (a perfect 10), then the score lowers for every fault the game presents that the reviewer is personally against. Those point deductions, just like getting a question wrong on a math test, can't be earned back be doing good things in other areas, just like getting questions right on said test doesn't take away the lower grade that the wrong answer caused.
Basically, all scoring and grading systems are SUPPOSED to be STRICTLY a point deduction system. Anyone who is doing it differently is doing it wrong. And currently, thats almost the entire industry right now, same with movies and tv.
(ps, when I say "lowers for every fault" that doesn't nessisarily mean a full number. It's up to the reviewer to define how big of a deduction that fault is worth. Could be as small as a -0.001 point deduction because a texture rendered in slowly)
@@just9019 It's only broad if its a recommendation system rather than a proper scoring/point deduction system). Basically, it's meant to be treated like you grading a test. . . but most reviewers are morons and don't seem to get that with all their numbers being baseless at worst, abstract at best.
Scores are something you tally, like how many strokes you do on a golf course. . . or how many bad game elements are in a game. Each instance holds a numerical value that you add up at the end with those numbers when added together give you your result. When there is a perfect score (like in golf it's considered "par") or a "perfect 10", you get the result by taking the perfect score then subtracting the sum you got from adding from it or something similar of a negative effect.
I respect this decision immensely especially because of how toxic much of the Internet is 90% of the time.
Arlo is clearly incapable of doing it properly anyway if he actually thinks I OF ALL PEOPLE deserve A PERFECT 7/7. What a tasteless hack.
That was a joke. I love Arlo.
90%? Don't you think that's a little high? I'd say it's probably 75%, or maybe closer to 84.32%
@@difty-dift You clearly are not the brightest are you. Obviously it's a 84.33%. Duh
I mean, I totally agree. In every way.
But can I also use this wonderful string of comments to say that the remaining 10% is still pretty neat?
"Toxic" is an overused term that means nothing.
Wow. Thank you Arlo. I completely agree with everything you said in this video. This is how I've always felt about reviews and scores
thanks for the end clip :) needed that smile
Arlo honestly, you gotta start like a podcast channel or something. You have so many good things to say about gaming, the gaming community as a whole and just how people should act in general. I'm very impressed with this vid, I give it 7 out of 7💙💙💙
0:25 plot twist, this is Arlo and Kane is a fictitious character who Arlo becomes when he eits videos
Gotta add that to the arlo lore book
There’s actually a picture of what real Arlo looks like taken from a convention, he has light colored hair
IMO you can’t give a game a bad review because a review is your opinion. Keep making great content :) agree about giving games a score, sometimes a score just can’t accurately depict how you actually feel as it’s just a number on a screen
I'm recently new to your channel Arlo, like I believe I found your channel just a week ago, and one of the first videos I watched was an old review with the 7 Arlos, and I subscribed right then because I really liked that you're a Muppet and your score graphic was pretty funny, and of course because I really appreciate how you review the games, very in depth reviews. Point is, even though I'm new, I'm also going to miss those small little Arlos, especially 7, he danced his little heart out for good games, 🤣. But I like the "no score" reviews, they get the speaker to really talk about what is truly good and bad about the game without having to compromise for a "low" score or an "outrageously high" score. Looking forward for your new videos!
Reviewer: *Reviews game in any way*
Literally like hundreds of people: And I took that personally
8:20 - 8:24 Respect for Kane editting that haha
Now I have to watch all of your old reviews again :)
This video really changed my perspective on reviews. I had always viewed them as more of an objective analysis than a subjective measurement on how much someone enjoyed a game and I think I agree with him. The number is pretty arbitrary
>Spends half of the video explaining his scoring system for the first time
>"I'm no longer giving scores at all now"
Wow, gee, thank you, lol.
Well, I can think of reasons I personally would want to have a score of some sort, but I can definitely agree with his 1-7 scoring, so I may use that now that I know the reasoning behind it.
I think the "too much water" joke would still happened, with or without a score number. It's just a funny complaint with or without context
Exactly, it was a game about water which they said should have had less water.
That Person Was Clearly Just A Team Magma Grunt.
I finally subscribed because of this video. Someone going forward with how they feel something needs to be done--not just complaining about the ideal they want--is what I want to support.
Won't miss the scoring system. Your content will be just as great as ever. Keep up the good work Arlo!
I'll miss the scores only because the dancing Arlos are cute
"A seven? How are we supposed to know what that means?" Remember, stay in school kids so you can do trivial math like input fractions into calculators.
Thanks. I needed that chuckle today.
Bold but absolutely necessary, I’m on board with the idea. Can’t wait to see how you do
Sooo happy to hear you're no longer doing number scores. Just talk about the good and the bad. Trust us to watch the whole review and decide for our selves if it's for us ❤💙
I get why you're dropping the scores, and I think it makes sense. I'm not gonna lie though, I'm gonna miss seeing the 7th Score Arlo do his boogie lol 😂
Same her dude.
I mean here
This video makes me appreciate Game Explains’ review score of, “liked it, liked it a lot, mind blown, etc.” more. Keeps it positive while hitting on what you may not like.
I would love to see you critique more topics like this which are more indirectly related to gaming. Like thoughts on the ESRB system or problems you find in the gaming industry as a whole.
In a lot of videos you'll kind of drift into these types of tangentially related topics, but you'll always reel yourself back before you get too off track. Would love to hear what you have to say about them
I'm glad to see you making a mature decision. Ultimately, whether people want the scores or not does not matter. What matters is a creator being able to create the way they want to. No one has to answer for why they want to make something, do something, say something, in a certain way. Getting insight into the system and your opinion on it though was a fun watch, thankyou for another good video
Idea: At the end of each video you could give games 2 or 3 specific awards regarding how much you liked certain aspects of them ("One of my favourite battle systems in x type of games", for example), ala the bonus stars in Mario Party!
Game dungeon also does this system, it's always fun to see what kind of awards he gives to the games.
Replying to bump this! This idea is awesome!!
Personally, sometimes it's hard to see how the bad/good points balance out, so I love having a score to help illustrate that, like if there's a bunch of negative points brought up but it has a high score, it helps flesh out the opinion more in my opinion. Sometimes I'm left confused as to the overall opinion of the game is at the end without it.
Arlo: Kane! It’s 4 o’clock! Time to start editing!!
Kane: yes, dear....
You make a very well thought opinion and case. Go with it! And about the dancing Arlos... Maybe you could just have them at the end and have your audience pick which Arlo they would personally rate the game as.
When you watch a review without a conclusive score and just hear the persons thoughts and opinions on the game it leads you to draw your own conclusion based on your own opinions so I think this system is better
This is basically how I've been viewing Zero Punctuation for the last decade.
"I give YOU, a 7/7"
Oh come on Arlo, I think I clearly deserve a 6.2 at most!
In all seriousness, I'm actually glad for the change. Scoring systems for games have always been very inconsistent and divisive, so hopefully this change will be a net positive.
Your thought is on point. I agree with you a lot. This reminds me a lot about TotalBiscuit's review style and I really like that. He doesn't score them in a traditional number sense, but goes in depth on what he likes, what he don't, what some players would and would not like. There was no point to scoring games.
I never realized how much thought you put into your review scoring system, though I do agree. Review scores take away from some of the nuance that can make a game good or bad and changes it into something as vague as a number.