Thanks for watching! Check out Zack's video here: th-cam.com/video/lZPeimesTgc/w-d-xo.html Want to keep up on all the latest channel news, including why today's video was late? twitter.com/eckhartsladder
EckhartsLadder can you do the same thing for the republic, rebellion, new republic, CIS, and the empire I would like a video where I can see all the ships of all the factions in Star Wars especially the empire since they have so many types of ships
How about watching this post TRoS? Lucas Films really wanted people to have to self explain things, didn't they? Because explaining the First Order's origins was hard enough, without the big dump that TRoS took on everything... It's not like the problem hasn't been brought up, people were questioning how the FO navy was raised since TFA. They could've easily slid in a scene about FO aligned political/corporate entities, but they didn't! And even preposterously had the climax reflect the opposite of that.
@@deeya actually a bit simple how the first order was raised, at the end of the battle of jakku hux was there and another female officer proclaiming to the first order
TLJ and TROS were both way better than the carbon copy of ANH that was TFA. I can at least enjoy the last two. And the return of Palpatine was inevitable, you can’t have major sith bad guys any time after the prequels without him. I loved the design of all the First Order and Sith Eternal ships, even though I wish we got more Sith Eternal ship types and some more differentiation between the Xystens and the Imperial 1s.
Screen writer 1: Ok guys we cant keep making bigger super weapons whats next? Screen writer 2: Start repetitively making bigger ships? Screen writer 1: I like it.
Except Starkiller base was roughly 8 times bigger than either DS, and the Empire controlled the entire galaxy - they had the time and resources to develop Death Stars and Executor-class destroyers easly. The First Order is a rogue nation...
"If we see any sort of real fleet battle in Episode VIII, I would not be surprised to see some small Lancer class frigates or perhaps other similar ships escorting larger Resurgence-class cruisers or perhaps larger Mega Star Destroyers" Boy, that comment didn't age well!
Erevos85 No. Metal ore deposits are not typically in concentrated areas like that. Even if we assume that they were on Starkiller Base, you still have to allocate much of those resources to create the refineries, factories, and shipyards necessary to create fleets. You're also forgetting the amount of usable material that is burned off and made useless by refining processes. But, that is a moot point because the First Order wasn't the one to construct Starkiller Base. The Empire did most of the work prior to its collapse. So, the First Order would've had to have gotten their resources elsewhere.
The mandators primary weapons can punch through planetary shields in a few shots, which as we saw in the battle of hoth, could withstand AT LEAST the combined firepower of an executor class star destroyer, 5 star destroyers and several gozanti class cruisers and forced Darth Vader to do a ground invasion. In what world is that 'enough firepower'.
I had really high hopes for the space combat in The Last Jedi. However, the opening scene in which Poe single-handedly knocks out the entirety of the FO Dreadnought's point defense weapon systems was unbelievably stupid, defying any sort of logic or continuity of space combat in the Star Wars Universe established in previous films (which, admittedly, basically just transported WWII naval weapon systems and tactics into space: Star Destroyers=cross over between battleships and carriers and X-wings and Tie Fighters=fighter aircraft and bombers). It was pretty clear in ANH and ESB that no single X-wing could even think of approaching a star destroyer, let alone a fleet of them, but apparently, the First Order is so bad at designing warships (and their crews and leadership so incompetent) that just one X-wing can destroy all of a Dreadnought's defensive weaponry (and, as evidenced in TFA, a tie fighter can destroy all of a Resurgent class battlecruiser's). One reason I'm especially disappointed is that with the introduction of ships like the Dreadnoughts, which possess powerful weapons capable of conducting sustained planetary bombardment, Disney had the opportunity to give the First Order (and, in extension, the Empire) a somewhat rational and powerful naval doctrine; I could easily have bought the idea that the First Order (and Empire), with an extremely large and powerful navy, capable of threatening the destruction of all life on a planet, could have taken over vast portions of the galaxy, even while not having an extremely effective ground force.
Dinghy Sailor well they kinda shoehorned plot armor into that scene but I’d guess the same outcome is there when all of the bombers are obliterated by the dreadnoughts fighter compliment
My guess is that the Mandator IV has sacrificed most of its defensive capabilities in order to get those really, REALLY big guns on the front. It can't defend itself that well (and is dependent on other ships and its TIEs to do so) but it is a master at both orbital bombardment and probably long-ranged capital ship blasting. I tend to imagine it like Empire at War's Aggressor-class ships, and almost the definition of a glass cannon - all offense, no defense.
Great descriptions on those screencaps "This colossal ship not only carries stormtroopers into battle..." Yes, I'm sure a ship with a 60 km wingspan is meant to carry soldiers into battle.
Watching this 3 years later. Sad realisation, that those b thes who make modern star wars film think, that we dont need a bomber put a sad face on my face
I think you should do something weird, chose any ship, and both sides have the exact same ship. The catch is that the crews are different, such as Old Republic vs the Empire, or Rebels Vs even the Covenant. Star wars factions, of course will be able to use force users associated with the faction. (5th try)
Isn’t that the main reason the republic beats the empire most of the time? Ignoring everything about the main characters and force users, the republic usually had competent leadership, they usually had solid tactics. The imps, not so much. It seems like nepotism was fairly widespread, and turnover was fairly quick. People were ousted for just one small mistake, and the higher up you were, the more likely you were to gather the Emperor’s or Vader’s attention, and that wasn’t a good thing. So fairly corrupt bureaucracy+quick turnover in leadership=inexperienced, incompetent leadership.
Fans also don't seem to realize that the FO is based in the UNKOWN regions, UNKOWN is the key word, they could plunder thousands of worlds away from civilization without any resistance. It's common sense.They may not be big number wise, but they could have access to unlimited resources.
PlayCebo Vision and how exactly did this remnant manage to make out the unknown regions and plunders these worlds uncontested certainly the chiss ascendency wouldn't tolerate it also aren't the vong still canon an active in the unknown region?
The galaxy is huge, the unknown regions aren't regulated to one tiny part, they could have kept a low profile and avoided all civilizations. I bet you that for all the habitable worlds, there are even more uninhabitable worlds. They could mine those without being bothered.
The unknown region is unknown because its severely inhospitable. Its like if the Nazi's went to hide in the south pole to come back 20 years later with high tech weapons and ufo's and other crazy OP stuff that is nothing like the world has ever seen. I feel its just lazy story writing to make it seem like the old rebellion fighting the old empire, although the rebellion formed the new republiv which is the super power and the empire is a remnant. But you all are still allowed to like it, in the same way I am allowed to disagree with it. So don't get defensive.
No way! I love the stormtrooper transport. It looks really cool, very solid as a good transport. I actually like the fact that it looks like a LCVP Higgins boat
I've got some good star ship versus ideas! *1.* 100 CR-90 Blockade Runners VS 1 Alligiance Star Destroyer *2.* Aclemator Class Assult Ship VS Nebulon B Frigate *3.* Droid Control Ship VS Scarif Shield Gate *4.* Tie Phantom VS Tie Defender *5.* T-800 Terminator VS IG-88 *6.* Victory 1 or 2 Star Destroyer VS MC-75 *7.* Abeloth VS Early DBZ Goku *8.* 1,000 Tie Defenders VS The Sun Crusher *9.* World Devistator VS Late Clone Wars Lucker Hulk Droid Control Ship *10.* The Impirial forces over Scarif VS 1 Resergence Class Star Destroyer
I'd like to see you do video's on more ground combat. I really liked the at-at vs modern day mbts. There's a lot of content that could be made out of all that lore. Keep up the good work man!
Yes... Getting disarmed by one x wing... Truly a quality ship. Though, to be fair it was supposed to fight similar size capital ships but not having proper smaller guns to combat versatile fighter is pretty bullshit.
just a random user I don’t think it was even for engaging other ships. I think it was mostly just for bombardment. It was basically like an artillery piece. Meant to be at the back, no real defense of it’s own because if the other army got to it, the battle’s probably already lost. In this case I think it was less of poor design and more of poor plans. Although it’s design is completely ridiculous. Everything else in the first order is actually reasonably designed, if not better. But this thing had every flaw in the book. Overexposed bridge, multiple weak spots, exceptionally bad point defense. Poe actually had the worst way of destroying it, because all they needed to do was destroy it’s main guns on the bottom, and there’s absolutely nothing protecting it from the underside. It’s way bigger than it ever needed to be, and there were plenty of other ships that were capable of bombardment. Even the imps and their ISDs were capable of orbital bombardment, and it’s not like the mandator was causing that much damage for the size of the weapon. Basically the first order put an artillery piece up against a door instead of just shooting it out with their guns.
@@xgunnerplaystwo2412 Mandator IV is a very good ship. However, the fucking plot armor prevented it from doing anything useful. Also, as you probably know, tactics used in the battle of Dqar were SO IDIOTIC. It was only destroyed because of the stupid plot and to show "heroes", and make that shitty movie go on...
List, One v One Star Ships 1) Harrower class Dreadnought vs Venator class Star Destroyer 2) Resurgent class Battlecruiser vs Executor class Super Star Destroyer 3) Tie Fighter vs Starfury 4) Star Wing vs B-Wing 5) Rebel Assault Frigate Mk 2 vs Imperial Victory II Star Destroyer 6) Hammerhead Cruiser vs Bulk Cruiser 7) Shadow vessel vs Imperial class II Star Destroyer 8) Babylon 5 Warlock class Destroyer vs UNSC Frigate
Kenneth Kates 1- venator would probably destroy due to large fighter compliment and more advanced weapons 2- executor is 19 km long. It basically wins by default
yeah but its HPPCs would one-shot the frigate not to mention the missiles and beams it also has rather think armor plating (16 meter thick vs the marathons 2-meter thick armor )
I feel like the Mandator 4 was a missed opportunity. I'm not usually one to automatically hate all Disney stuff, but the Mandator is just a horrendous design. It feels plain, and a different design would be much more effective at orbital bombardment, which appears to be its purpose. A design like the eclipse would be better. The downward slope at the front would help hide the auto-cannons, and a division at the side rather than being flat would allow for the placement of some heavy turbolasers to help with the bombardment, but keeping some regular and PD cannons for defense, even though it would ideally have an escort fleet. Plus, it feels like they abandoned the idea of the First Order learning from the mistakes of the Empire. The Mandator 4 suffers even worse from the exposed bridge than the ISD by having it so unnecessarily long. I feel like they didn't even try, considering how the AT-M6 looks really cool, and the Supremacy makes a lot of sense for it's purpose. Speaking of the AT-M6, I really want to see someone try and trip it like an AT-AT, but fail because the ape design helps stop that
If they could convert a planet into a weapon that uses suns as energy a 60km ship isn't very impressive but I do love the S U P R E M E cy class & I refuse to call it Mega Class.
The mega star destroyer looks like two smaller star destroyers combined together and attached at the rear to make one large ship. Look at the "ridge lines" on the hull and you'll see the distinct pyramid like shape of the hull getting small as you look from bottom to top of the hull. Maybe once in the unknown regions they combined two ships they brought with them from the core worlds and then continued adding on and building outward as the developed more resources. I love the star wars spaceships and look forward to seeing more as the story progresses. Great video man!
Not even a fair contest, Sith Empire bitch!!!! I mean there's Darth Vitiate, one of the most powerful force user of all time, and do you seriously, really think an empire which got bitched by a small band of rebels would stomp the old order of the sith with their thousands of sith lords? You moron or something?
I do 3d modelling as a hobby and I've got a concept star destroyer I made called the Immediate. It's got two layers of wedges, kinda like a biplane, but all four join into a point at the front. If it was canon it'd be second only to the supremacy at 40km from front to rear, and 12km at it's widest.
I think the Mandatory IV was meant to be "attachments" for the Supremacy. The Supremacy has those two very large spaces underneath. It would make sense to have those large weapons as detachable. That would allow, in a combat situation, to spilt kind of like the Enterprise in Star Trek. Idk, hopefully he reads this and digs into it.
List; 5th try Boba Vs Jango Shadow trooper Vs Clone commando Arc trooper Vs Mandalorian death watch Noble team Vs Delta squad Mandator 4 (in TLJ) Vs Bellator OR 3 ISD Standered US trooper Vs Standerded rebel trooper Hovertank ( in RO) Vs 2 M1 abrams Arc trooper Vs Clone commandos At-At Vs At-m6 ( gorila walker) Anakin Vs Darth Vader Republic Vs Empire (Both in there prime) Death trooper Vs Arc trooper P.1000 ratte Vs At-M6 F-35 Vs Tie fighter Phantom 1 Vs Phantom 2 B-wing Vs Tie defender Rebel alliance Vs Resistance F-15E eagle Vs Tie inteceptor
Given the way Starkiller base absorbed energy from a star, and all the very large ships that the First Order has, they may have something like the Star Forge pumping out ships somewhere in the unknown regions.
I just have a hard time buying that these ships would be built without anyone finding out. They better have a good explanation or they will be really testing my suspension of disbelief. Great video as always
The First Order had a home base planet in Starkiller Base, didn't they? Difficult to see how destroying it didn't completely cripple the Order, considering how much capital and manpower they had invested in it.
Designed By Kuat-Entralla Engineering Are: Resurgent Star Destroyer Mandator IV Siege Dreadnought Mega Class Super Star Destroyer Fighter Of Sienar-Jaemus Fleet Systems Are: SJ TIE/FO SJ TIE/SF SJ TIE/VN AKA SILENCER OF KYLO REN SJ Upsilon Class Command Shuttle
That stormtrooper transport doesn't NEED to fly effectively, it just needs to FLY. It's a transport for large amounts of troops, not a fighter. Edit: As for how they made the Flying Wing of Doom, it's possible that they DIDN'T make it...at least not fully. Remember, they had Starkiller base. Do you REALLY think that would be the only thing they had, when they had all these other ships?
Here is what the Mandator IV siege dreadnought needs: Point Defense Laser Cannons and Turbo Lasers on its Ventral Underside, Stronger Shield Generators, a Heavily Armored protective dome over the weak spot, more Turbo Lasers on its dorsal surface ( also maybe 2 - 4 on the protective Dome ), and quicker recharge tech.
You complained that the Atmospheric Assault Lander looks like a D-Day boat, but I think thats the point. Look at how the AAL is used: Landing and discharging troops while under heavy fire, just like the D-Day landing ships.
Snoke = Vitiate I know that you think I am crazy but think about it. That would be such a great reveal that Vader telling to Luke that he is his son would be like nothing. More than 4000 years old Sith Emperor who is still alive at this time, that have the potential for overcoming everything in canon.
great video. i'd love to see a fleet of clone wars ships go up against the empire, how would venators fare against imperial star destroyers. that sort of thing.
The First Order having the star destroyer base actually made more sense to me than it did my friends, remembering that there was already a rapidly escalating trend of bigger, badder, and more awesome in scale in terms of what the Empire was building. The Death Star II was what, 5 times the size of the first, even unfinished? I always imagined that wasn't their only project at the time, although it was the most immediate threat to the rebels and the most immediately usable weapons platform the Empire had on hand right then. 30 years later, who knows.
Did you hear that the raddus heavy cruiser is only 3000m long? I want to know what you think about it, i am personally happy that its not a huge 19 km dreadnought because thats not what the sequels are about, they're about smaller battles.
The Death Stars would win because each Star Killer base needs a whole star to fire a single volley, so in one battle chances are there will be 1 or 0 stars in range and the Death Stars could shoot them down before the Star killers could charge up anyways
The resurgent is kind of a starfighter carrieer. The resurgent class was designed to have thr abillity to carry starfighter and troop transport like ships from the republic, but on the other hand has thr ability to fight other capital ship like star destroyers.
Andy Watanabe Only issue is what parts they are keeping from "TRUE canon" cause so far they are mostly ignoring Revan and his time periods, that would include the Starforge but, I love your thoughts on that.
Andy Watanabe---I really hope your wrong. The Star Forge is a ship yard and factory but it's also a super weapon and The SW Universe has far too many and I'm really tired of seeing unstoppable super weapons already. Why can't anyone try something else like some unstoppable plot of some kind.
General Hux: Son, don't you know that we're the First Order? Bones Conway (Pauley Shore): I really wish you were the First Order, but we already had a couple ones already.
The resurgent first order star destroyer is a beast..unlike the imperial star destroyers, it clearly can handle its self in fighter defense..so i dint think they will utilize corvettes for that reason.
MY biggest problem with the First Order is that it wouldn't have the resources to build all of this. The First Order would be much more like the Rebellion.
+iTZ_Merp It's a bit lazy, though. Writer 1: "How can we make a threatening evil presence after ROTJ" Writer 2: "Make the galaxy go through complicated political manoeuvring and show the inherent problem with insurgents of many different political beliefs taking power and setting up government?" Writer 1: "Nah" Writer 3: "What about basing them in the unknown regions and making them super mysterious?" Writer 1: "I like it!"
I feel like Snoke might actually be the CEO of Kuat Drive Yards, the military industrial manufacturer of most Empire and FO craft. It'd explain his resources and vast wealth, and how he saw the Empire rise and fall. As they say, "money is the root of all evil". Sometimes more terrifying, too.
I have done my own calculations for the size of the fleet after watching The Last Jedi 1 Supremacy one executor 1 Siege dreadnought P.S these are the dreadnought 100 resurgence and 200 modified Imperial two class Star Destroyers estimated around 25,000 fo Tie fighters 5000 SF Tie fighters and 1 tie silencer.
How I see it is that the First Order acquired plans first created by the Empire and the Tarkin Initiative in which they decided to make so tweaks and adjustments to them in order to create their ships. Next, they were possibly financed by mob bosses and CEOs of companies who were sympathetic to the Empire. Plus as you said, they had a lot of time, (30 years is longer than the Empire's existence), with no pressure from the outside, the gathering of resources by unknown planets in the Unknown regions and financed by those in higher up places sympathetic to the Empire before it collapsed.
Legends did it but Legends wasn't even real, this shit is cannon, this shit is actually real within the universe. I'm not saying there shouldn't be another war, I'm saying this cash grab of a trilogy shouldn't exist. Even if it has to because Disney is evil... at least don't make all the heroes "myths" who are either hermits, underground leaders or alzheimer's patients. Han should be a general, not a myth, Luke should be in fucking history books and Leia should be a senator or some shit. But no... they are just all replaced by Mary Sue, Han Solo 2, Black stormtrooper with awful dialogue and emo 15 year old Darth Vader.
MartianProductions well I mean I don't mind Rey as a protagonist, but I recommend, reading the the aftermath series by chuck wendig and the Leia book, Star Wars bloodlines by Claudia gray. If there's one thing that's good from the new canon is the books. It also answers a couple of questions like why solo never kept the position of general and why leia left the senate. I highly suggest you read them
Hey Eckhart, I saw where you said the Mega Star Destroyer has a 60 KM wingspan, but your notes show that it is 60 KM in length, which is traditionally from front to back, not side to side. I see how it can be easy to get those mixed up as it looks like it couldn't be 60KM long because that would make the wingspan something like 200 - 300 KM wide. I love your videos, keep up the great work.
Idk... I'm still not all in on the first order because of the way they are presented. If starkiller base was presented as an all in effort by the FO, (like putting all their eggs in one basket), I feel like people would be more accepting. It also would make the venture into the Unknown Regions seem more like an attempt to find more resources not just digging into their massive pile of goodies they have stashed.
If it was an all in effort, then its destruction would likely mean the collapse of the FO, which obviously means no more movies and no more money for Disney.
+. Yes and no, it's all in the writing. Kylo would likely bring much of the forces with him and I'm sure snook would call the scattered remnants to the unknown regions. It really depends on how they would choose to write it, which I would take over the defeated empire being able to terraform an entire planet into a more powerful deaths star with their seemingly unending resources.
Hawk Stirke All in effort = all money and resources invested into the project. If destroyed, all their money and resources are now gone, and the order will collapse, just like every other penniless government.
+. Well you aren't entirely wrong, but again it's all about how you write it. Snook seems to carry as much weight as the emperor did, I feel as though the first order would rally behind him much in the way the warlords rallied behind the reborn emperor in OP Shadow Hamd. If Snook sent out a message for the remaining first order forced to join him in the unknown regions I'm sure the majority would follow out of sheer desperation.
The supremacsy(Snoke's ship) gets destroyed and the mandator 4 too.Altough i think the FO had more mandators. Also the Mandator has 25 turbolaser towers and that hole in the middle was it's glaring weakness. Also the FO had XI-shuttles. Finn and Rose use one to get from the exploding Supremacy to Crait. Also if you have not seen the movie , sorry for the spoilers
Thanks for watching! Check out Zack's video here: th-cam.com/video/lZPeimesTgc/w-d-xo.html
Want to keep up on all the latest channel news, including why today's video was late? twitter.com/eckhartsladder
EckhartsLadder nice vid man😝
EckhartsLadder can you do the same thing for the republic, rebellion, new republic, CIS, and the empire I would like a video where I can see all the ships of all the factions in Star Wars especially the empire since they have so many types of ships
EckhartsLadder there are going to be bombers in episode 8 as seen in a last jedi poster on force friday alongside AT-M6's.
EckhartsLadder the mega class to me it seems that it could dock with the Mandaitor IV and the carrier looks a lot like the Gladiator class
do the supremacy vs the mantles approch please
Watching this vid two years after TLJ made me emit a sad chuckle quite a few times.
How about watching this post TRoS? Lucas Films really wanted people to have to self explain things, didn't they? Because explaining the First Order's origins was hard enough, without the big dump that TRoS took on everything...
It's not like the problem hasn't been brought up, people were questioning how the FO navy was raised since TFA. They could've easily slid in a scene about FO aligned political/corporate entities, but they didn't! And even preposterously had the climax reflect the opposite of that.
My reaction was less of a sad chuckle and more of a disgusted growl. They REALLY dropped the ball that was the Star Wars franchise.
@@Arkancide I know right, everyone says you just don’t like it because you’re sexist. It’s not my fault Rey is unlikable
@@deeya actually a bit simple how the first order was raised, at the end of the battle of jakku hux was there and another female officer proclaiming to the first order
TLJ and TROS were both way better than the carbon copy of ANH that was TFA. I can at least enjoy the last two. And the return of Palpatine was inevitable, you can’t have major sith bad guys any time after the prequels without him. I loved the design of all the First Order and Sith Eternal ships, even though I wish we got more Sith Eternal ship types and some more differentiation between the Xystens and the Imperial 1s.
Screen writer 1: Ok guys we cant keep making bigger super weapons whats next?
Screen writer 2: Start repetitively making bigger ships?
Screen writer 1: I like it.
Coltin Yancey lmao these pale in comparison to the Death Stars dude.
Except Starkiller base was roughly 8 times bigger than either DS, and the Empire controlled the entire galaxy - they had the time and resources to develop Death Stars and Executor-class destroyers easly. The First Order is a rogue nation...
@@god8483 yeah it explodes better and bigger, wait thats because special effects
And now in The Rise Of Skywalker, every star destroyer is a super weapon.
Screen writer 3: Guys! I have an idea!
"If we see any sort of real fleet battle in Episode VIII, I would not be surprised to see some small Lancer class frigates or perhaps other similar ships escorting larger Resurgence-class cruisers or perhaps larger Mega Star Destroyers"
Boy, that comment didn't age well!
Lol
He expected more than one mega class?!
How far has Disney's storytelling fallen?
Aged like milk.
It aged perfectly.
There wasn’t any REAL fleet battle in Episodes VII, VIII y IX.
Well, all the material removed from the planet that became Starkiller base had to go somewhere.
#DirtStarDestroyer
I didn't realize ships were made of stone and dirt.
Slender Man that's how they make rock hard armor lol
large metal deposits obviously?
Erevos85 No. Metal ore deposits are not typically in concentrated areas like that. Even if we assume that they were on Starkiller Base, you still have to allocate much of those resources to create the refineries, factories, and shipyards necessary to create fleets. You're also forgetting the amount of usable material that is burned off and made useless by refining processes.
But, that is a moot point because the First Order wasn't the one to construct Starkiller Base. The Empire did most of the work prior to its collapse. So, the First Order would've had to have gotten their resources elsewhere.
I think the Mandator 4 class Dreadnought actually looks cool in its own way. It's very brutalistic and conveys it.
RebelBeamMaster X84 Not enough firepower.
It's like the people that designed it said "How exactly can we make a star destroyer that looks *even more* like a pizza?"
The mandators primary weapons can punch through planetary shields in a few shots, which as we saw in the battle of hoth, could withstand AT LEAST the combined firepower of an executor class star destroyer, 5 star destroyers and several gozanti class cruisers and forced Darth Vader to do a ground invasion. In what world is that 'enough firepower'.
I guess it's okay, but it doesn't fit the aesthetic of the already established First Order Star Destroyers.
Resurgent class looks WAYYY better
I had really high hopes for the space combat in The Last Jedi. However, the opening scene in which Poe single-handedly knocks out the entirety of the FO Dreadnought's point defense weapon systems was unbelievably stupid, defying any sort of logic or continuity of space combat in the Star Wars Universe established in previous films (which, admittedly, basically just transported WWII naval weapon systems and tactics into space: Star Destroyers=cross over between battleships and carriers and X-wings and Tie Fighters=fighter aircraft and bombers). It was pretty clear in ANH and ESB that no single X-wing could even think of approaching a star destroyer, let alone a fleet of them, but apparently, the First Order is so bad at designing warships (and their crews and leadership so incompetent) that just one X-wing can destroy all of a Dreadnought's defensive weaponry (and, as evidenced in TFA, a tie fighter can destroy all of a Resurgent class battlecruiser's). One reason I'm especially disappointed is that with the introduction of ships like the Dreadnoughts, which possess powerful weapons capable of conducting sustained planetary bombardment, Disney had the opportunity to give the First Order (and, in extension, the Empire) a somewhat rational and powerful naval doctrine; I could easily have bought the idea that the First Order (and Empire), with an extremely large and powerful navy, capable of threatening the destruction of all life on a planet, could have taken over vast portions of the galaxy, even while not having an extremely effective ground force.
+Dinghy Sailor agreed
Dinghy Sailor well they kinda shoehorned plot armor into that scene but I’d guess the same outcome is there when all of the bombers are obliterated by the dreadnoughts fighter compliment
My guess is that the Mandator IV has sacrificed most of its defensive capabilities in order to get those really, REALLY big guns on the front. It can't defend itself that well (and is dependent on other ships and its TIEs to do so) but it is a master at both orbital bombardment and probably long-ranged capital ship blasting. I tend to imagine it like Empire at War's Aggressor-class ships, and almost the definition of a glass cannon - all offense, no defense.
X wing steps to the side
X wing smiles
X wing blows up a 10km capital ship in 30 seconds and 20 free tie
ikr I wanted to see something like how Eck's does his space battles in Empire at War
The supremacy looks like a giant boomerang
Mars Bars looks more like that Horten bomber the Germans had in WW2
Christian Quiles more like the b2 spirit or whatever but that is an angular horten anyways
Mars Bars and the lancer looks like a penis
Nice you guys
They’re flying boomerangs and dicks
Great descriptions on those screencaps
"This colossal ship not only carries stormtroopers into battle..."
Yes, I'm sure a ship with a 60 km wingspan is meant to carry soldiers into battle.
something's gonna blow up with a single blaster fire in episode VIII... something like 60km long
No-no-no, the starfighter is gonna crash into its bridge in Episode 9, and its gonna fall into the StarKiller base 2 and blow up.
Lol you guys are gonna be disapointed
The way it goes down is a high point in the movie and was very bad ass...The whole audience was just shocked at that moment...
A Mon Calamari ship light speeds into it and cuts it in half.
Ian Hines izi kill
Watching this 3 years later. Sad realisation, that those b thes who make modern star wars film think, that we dont need a bomber put a sad face on my face
I think you should do something weird, chose any ship, and both sides have the exact same ship. The catch is that the crews are different, such as Old Republic vs the Empire, or Rebels Vs even the Covenant. Star wars factions, of course will be able to use force users associated with the faction. (5th try)
yes, good idea
Yeah this is really cool
This needs to be done
Nero S I like this idea
Isn’t that the main reason the republic beats the empire most of the time?
Ignoring everything about the main characters and force users, the republic usually had competent leadership, they usually had solid tactics. The imps, not so much. It seems like nepotism was fairly widespread, and turnover was fairly quick. People were ousted for just one small mistake, and the higher up you were, the more likely you were to gather the Emperor’s or Vader’s attention, and that wasn’t a good thing. So fairly corrupt bureaucracy+quick turnover in leadership=inexperienced, incompetent leadership.
The Mandator IV looks like it has a big Ｄ Ｉ Ｃ Ｃ
Two of them..
T Hawk when you return from a trip to Chernobyl and go to pee
r/cursedcomments
@@nugget8612 ...
A massive Ｄ Ｉ Ｃ Ｃ indeed!
Coming back to this video, years after episode 8-9 came out......
Gods I wish we got your version brother
Fans also don't seem to realize that the FO is based in the UNKOWN regions, UNKOWN is the key word, they could plunder thousands of worlds away from civilization without any resistance. It's common sense.They may not be big number wise, but they could have access to unlimited resources.
PlayCebo Vision and how exactly did this remnant manage to make out the unknown regions and plunders these worlds uncontested certainly the chiss ascendency wouldn't tolerate it also aren't the vong still canon an active in the unknown region?
Kingx Kai117 no the vong aren't canon anymore
The galaxy is huge, the unknown regions aren't regulated to one tiny part, they could have kept a low profile and avoided all civilizations. I bet you that for all the habitable worlds, there are even more uninhabitable worlds. They could mine those without being bothered.
The unknown region is unknown because its severely inhospitable.
Its like if the Nazi's went to hide in the south pole to come back 20 years later with high tech weapons and ufo's and other crazy OP stuff that is nothing like the world has ever seen.
I feel its just lazy story writing to make it seem like the old rebellion fighting the old empire, although the rebellion formed the new republiv which is the super power and the empire is a remnant.
But you all are still allowed to like it, in the same way I am allowed to disagree with it. So don't get defensive.
But just because it is inhospitable doesn't mean they can't live, or find resources. Again, massive region, galaxies are huge,
Anyone else have the feeling in the movie Kylo is going to say "This is were the fun begins" in a dogfight scene during the space battle?
Right... Because people want to be reminded of prequel Anakin...
nah its gonna be "I'll try spinning thats a good trick"
Created To Comment 😂😂😂😂😂
Keyboard Athlete it might be done for the younger audience, tongue in cheek humor. Or just have him talk about sand lmaooo.
Ryan Troise
Rian Johnson liked the prequels. So it's likely.
No way! I love the stormtrooper transport. It looks really cool, very solid as a good transport. I actually like the fact that it looks like a LCVP Higgins boat
I've got some good star ship versus ideas!
*1.* 100 CR-90 Blockade Runners VS 1 Alligiance Star Destroyer
*2.* Aclemator Class Assult Ship VS Nebulon B Frigate
*3.* Droid Control Ship VS Scarif Shield Gate
*4.* Tie Phantom VS Tie Defender
*5.* T-800 Terminator VS IG-88
*6.* Victory 1 or 2 Star Destroyer VS MC-75
*7.* Abeloth VS Early DBZ Goku
*8.* 1,000 Tie Defenders VS The Sun Crusher
*9.* World Devistator VS Late Clone Wars Lucker Hulk Droid Control Ship
*10.* The Impirial forces over Scarif VS 1 Resergence Class Star Destroyer
I'd like to see you do video's on more ground combat. I really liked the at-at vs modern day mbts. There's a lot of content that could be made out of all that lore. Keep up the good work man!
The first orders dreadnought ship alarm is scary
We don’t know the size of the First Order’s Navy. I think it’s already been demonstrated they prefer quality over quantity.
JeffAM1986 dreadnought had perfect quality
Yes... Getting disarmed by one x wing... Truly a quality ship.
Though, to be fair it was supposed to fight similar size capital ships but not having proper smaller guns to combat versatile fighter is pretty bullshit.
I think 70 star destroyers and a single mandator IV
just a random user I don’t think it was even for engaging other ships. I think it was mostly just for bombardment. It was basically like an artillery piece. Meant to be at the back, no real defense of it’s own because if the other army got to it, the battle’s probably already lost. In this case I think it was less of poor design and more of poor plans.
Although it’s design is completely ridiculous. Everything else in the first order is actually reasonably designed, if not better. But this thing had every flaw in the book. Overexposed bridge, multiple weak spots, exceptionally bad point defense. Poe actually had the worst way of destroying it, because all they needed to do was destroy it’s main guns on the bottom, and there’s absolutely nothing protecting it from the underside.
It’s way bigger than it ever needed to be, and there were plenty of other ships that were capable of bombardment.
Even the imps and their ISDs were capable of orbital bombardment, and it’s not like the mandator was causing that much damage for the size of the weapon.
Basically the first order put an artillery piece up against a door instead of just shooting it out with their guns.
@@xgunnerplaystwo2412 Mandator IV is a very good ship.
However, the fucking plot armor prevented it from doing anything useful. Also, as you probably know, tactics used in the battle of Dqar were SO IDIOTIC. It was only destroyed because of the stupid plot and to show "heroes", and make that shitty movie go on...
The victory line of Star Destroyers was brought into canon in the book Tarkin. Along with the Secutor-class star destroyer.
List, One v One Star Ships
1) Harrower class Dreadnought vs Venator class Star Destroyer
2) Resurgent class Battlecruiser vs Executor class Super Star Destroyer
3) Tie Fighter vs Starfury
4) Star Wing vs B-Wing
5) Rebel Assault Frigate Mk 2 vs Imperial Victory II Star Destroyer
6) Hammerhead Cruiser vs Bulk Cruiser
7) Shadow vessel vs Imperial class II Star Destroyer
8) Babylon 5 Warlock class Destroyer vs UNSC Frigate
Kenneth Kates 1- venator would probably destroy due to large fighter compliment and more advanced weapons
2- executor is 19 km long. It basically wins by default
a marathon or a autumn would be a better match to the warlock
Isimiel I was thinking that, but I'm not sure if the Interceptors on the Warlock would disrupt or destroy a cruiser MAC round.
yeah but its HPPCs would one-shot the frigate not to mention the missiles and beams it also has rather think armor plating (16 meter thick vs the marathons 2-meter thick armor )
Isimiel I can see your point. If Eckhartsladder chooses it, he might modify the scenario based on what you have stated and his research.
wtf no way the last jedi came out 5 years ago. how has time gone so fast
I feel like the Mandator 4 was a missed opportunity. I'm not usually one to automatically hate all Disney stuff, but the Mandator is just a horrendous design. It feels plain, and a different design would be much more effective at orbital bombardment, which appears to be its purpose. A design like the eclipse would be better. The downward slope at the front would help hide the auto-cannons, and a division at the side rather than being flat would allow for the placement of some heavy turbolasers to help with the bombardment, but keeping some regular and PD cannons for defense, even though it would ideally have an escort fleet. Plus, it feels like they abandoned the idea of the First Order learning from the mistakes of the Empire. The Mandator 4 suffers even worse from the exposed bridge than the ISD by having it so unnecessarily long. I feel like they didn't even try, considering how the AT-M6 looks really cool, and the Supremacy makes a lot of sense for it's purpose. Speaking of the AT-M6, I really want to see someone try and trip it like an AT-AT, but fail because the ape design helps stop that
I agree with you on lambda. I've always loved that ship
If we knew more about the Supremacy, I would love to see it go against the Infinity, possibly a fleet battle.
Comibine vs the Star Wars galaxy
Mic Clank nice one.
Goalmer Crespin thanks
do the supremacy vs the mantles approch please
The combine from half life?
i think you meant combine
So much potential…and they murdered it.
Just stumbled across this channel and have watching it for almost an hour now. Great work on the content. Happy to subscribe.
First order: we need a large ship...
A random officer: hmmmm b o o m e r a n g
[Credit to Mars bars for this meme :)]
Many thanks for explaining the different ship types. Excellent video.
If they could convert a planet into a weapon that uses suns as energy a 60km ship isn't very impressive but I do love the S U P R E M E cy class & I refuse to call it Mega Class.
But the size is enough to calling it like that, it even bigger than executor and eclipse.
The mega star destroyer looks like two smaller star destroyers combined together and attached at the rear to make one large ship. Look at the "ridge lines" on the hull and you'll see the distinct pyramid like shape of the hull getting small as you look from bottom to top of the hull. Maybe once in the unknown regions they combined two ships they brought with them from the core worlds and then continued adding on and building outward as the developed more resources. I love the star wars spaceships and look forward to seeing more as the story progresses. Great video man!
Sith Empire (SWTOR) vs Galactic Empire (Rebels era)
Not even a contest.... Galactic Empire
If the Siths lost against the Republic...
I don't think it's even a question if they would win against the Empire lmao.
Not even a fair contest, Sith Empire bitch!!!!
I mean there's Darth Vitiate, one of the most powerful force user of all time, and do you seriously, really think an empire which got bitched by a small band of rebels would stomp the old order of the sith with their thousands of sith lords? You moron or something?
Always interesting and great content when you talk ships!
I do 3d modelling as a hobby and I've got a concept star destroyer I made called the Immediate. It's got two layers of wedges, kinda like a biplane, but all four join into a point at the front. If it was canon it'd be second only to the supremacy at 40km from front to rear, and 12km at it's widest.
I think the Mandatory IV was meant to be "attachments" for the Supremacy. The Supremacy has those two very large spaces underneath. It would make sense to have those large weapons as detachable. That would allow, in a combat situation, to spilt kind of like the Enterprise in Star Trek. Idk, hopefully he reads this and digs into it.
Notify and watching cause notifications squad
+Steven Anchundia my man
Steven Anchundia great.
List; 5th try
Boba
Vs
Jango
Shadow trooper
Vs
Clone commando
Arc trooper
Vs
Mandalorian death watch
Noble team
Vs
Delta squad
Mandator 4 (in TLJ)
Vs
Bellator OR 3 ISD
Standered US trooper
Vs
Standerded rebel trooper
Hovertank ( in RO)
Vs
2 M1 abrams
Arc trooper
Vs
Clone commandos
At-At
Vs
At-m6 ( gorila walker)
Anakin
Vs
Darth Vader
Republic
Vs
Empire
(Both in there prime)
Death trooper
Vs
Arc trooper
P.1000 ratte
Vs
At-M6
F-35
Vs
Tie fighter
Phantom 1
Vs
Phantom 2
B-wing
Vs
Tie defender
Rebel alliance
Vs
Resistance
F-15E eagle
Vs
Tie inteceptor
Wow.
Steez& Co well you got noble team vs delta squad
You left out 2 tie fighters. First TIE:Baron. It’s canon. It’s also my favorite. Then there’s the FO Tie Bomber with the inverted solar wings.
I'm a simple man. I see Eck upload, i click, like, share and favourite
Given the way Starkiller base absorbed energy from a star, and all the very large ships that the First Order has, they may have something like the Star Forge pumping out ships somewhere in the unknown regions.
Sykazee That's always a possibility. It wouldn't be the first time aspects of Legends canon were adapted into the new canon, just look at Thrawn.
Honestly I wish Starkiller Base was a re-imagined Starforge. It works well as a new superweaopn and explain the First Order's fleet size easily.
Good video man. It had a nice change of pace feel.
2:37
"Tieper drive"
I see what you did there...
Your doing the Lord's work eckherts ladder! Keep it up!
Oh how disappointed he would’ve been
The mega-class Super Star Destroyer, when seen from behind and above, looks a lot like the YB-49
Please do the Liberator class Star Destroyer vs. Imperial 2 Star Destroyer this is the 12 time
The use of Resonance by HOME at the second part of the video fits so well, like a soundtrack to space...
Imperial remnant vs storm covenant
I just have a hard time buying that these ships would be built without anyone finding out. They better have a good explanation or they will be really testing my suspension of disbelief. Great video as always
I pity past you, who thought that the supremacy might do something faintly interesting.
The First Order had a home base planet in Starkiller Base, didn't they? Difficult to see how destroying it didn't completely cripple the Order, considering how much capital and manpower they had invested in it.
i like how almost all of your logical comments disney decided to not include
I think that the normal First Order Star Destroyer was a great step up from the OG Star Destroyer.
And all speculation was wrong as the reality was far far worse
Designed By Kuat-Entralla Engineering Are:
Resurgent Star Destroyer
Mandator IV Siege Dreadnought
Mega Class Super Star Destroyer
Fighter Of Sienar-Jaemus Fleet Systems Are:
SJ TIE/FO
SJ TIE/SF
SJ TIE/VN AKA SILENCER OF KYLO REN
SJ Upsilon Class Command Shuttle
I love all the ships. My personal favourite is the supremacy
I think that there should be a term like "plot armor" referred to factions/civilizations in movies using resources that they could not possibly have.
(Titanfall) IMC Titans vs Imperial infantry (Of your choice)
Star Wars is like "lets build fleet that would require resources of thousands of worlds and call it a thing" :D
I mean…. Considering they hid in the unknown regions until they showed themselves….
It’s highly possible they HAD thousands of worlds
That stormtrooper transport doesn't NEED to fly effectively, it just needs to FLY. It's a transport for large amounts of troops, not a fighter.
Edit: As for how they made the Flying Wing of Doom, it's possible that they DIDN'T make it...at least not fully. Remember, they had Starkiller base. Do you REALLY think that would be the only thing they had, when they had all these other ships?
Here is what the Mandator IV siege dreadnought needs:
Point Defense Laser Cannons and Turbo Lasers on its Ventral Underside, Stronger Shield Generators, a Heavily Armored protective dome over the weak spot, more Turbo Lasers on its dorsal surface ( also maybe 2 - 4 on the protective Dome ), and quicker recharge tech.
Titan class star destroyer vs mediator class star cruiser
I WILL NEVER GIVE UP!!
Oh and first!!
lancer class at front looks like a dreadnaught class ngl
Do something with the BattleTech universe.
Everyone gansta until the wing gets sliced off
I recognize the synthwave song near the end, but I can't remember the name.
its the insta classic home - resonance
You complained that the Atmospheric Assault Lander looks like a D-Day boat, but I think thats the point. Look at how the AAL is used: Landing and discharging troops while under heavy fire, just like the D-Day landing ships.
Snoke = Vitiate
I know that you think I am crazy but think about it. That would be such a great reveal that Vader telling to Luke that he is his son would be like nothing. More than 4000 years old Sith Emperor who is still alive at this time, that have the potential for overcoming everything in canon.
great video. i'd love to see a fleet of clone wars ships go up against the empire, how would venators fare against imperial star destroyers. that sort of thing.
Didn't some of the FO's in Star Wars: Resistance use hyperdrives?
The First Order having the star destroyer base actually made more sense to me than it did my friends, remembering that there was already a rapidly escalating trend of bigger, badder, and more awesome in scale in terms of what the Empire was building. The Death Star II was what, 5 times the size of the first, even unfinished? I always imagined that wasn't their only project at the time, although it was the most immediate threat to the rebels and the most immediately usable weapons platform the Empire had on hand right then. 30 years later, who knows.
CCS Battlecruiser VS Imperial II SD? Please?
Atleast they were smart enough to give their ties shields
A source for the materials used in the construction of all of this, well the excavated material from Starkiller base had to go somewhere.
Ships aren't made out of stone and dirt.
Good job on the vid bro !! always informative and entertaining
Did you hear that the raddus heavy cruiser is only 3000m long? I want to know what you think about it, i am personally happy that its not a huge 19 km dreadnought because thats not what the sequels are about, they're about smaller battles.
Well isn't this the New Republic vs the First Order... why wouldn't they have huge warships?!
Delta4280 its the resistance with is meant to be even smaller than the rebels, and the first order is supposed to be. A smaller empire
I think it would be cool to see a fleet of resistance MC85 and MC95 cruisers battle against a fleet of Resurgent star destroyers at some point
My favorite first order ship is the resurgent class cruiser and the Mandator IV dreadnought
100 star killer bases vs 100 Death Stars, and 1000 super star destroyers.
Star Commander nice one
Star Commander are you kidding me?
DEW IT lol.
Star Commander I think the Star killers beat the Death Stars
The Death Stars would win because each Star Killer base needs a whole star to fire a single volley, so in one battle chances are there will be 1 or 0 stars in range and the Death Stars could shoot them down before the Star killers could charge up anyways
The resurgent is kind of a starfighter carrieer. The resurgent class was designed to have thr abillity to carry starfighter and troop transport like ships from the republic, but on the other hand has thr ability to fight other capital ship like star destroyers.
So, it's like a combination between venator and imperial-class?
I think thy found the star forge
Andy Watanabe Only issue is what parts they are keeping from "TRUE canon" cause so far they are mostly ignoring Revan and his time periods, that would include the Starforge but, I love your thoughts on that.
Xander Gallagher well the star forge can become cannon.
Karumu Ryushie I agree that's why I said that it depends on what they bring over from "TRUE CANON."
Xander Gallagher at this point it's what ever they want. Which is fine by me
Andy Watanabe---I really hope your wrong. The Star Forge is a ship yard and factory but it's also a super weapon and The SW Universe has far too many and I'm really tired of seeing unstoppable super weapons already. Why can't anyone try something else like some unstoppable plot of some kind.
General Hux: Son, don't you know that we're the First Order?
Bones Conway (Pauley Shore): I really wish you were the First Order, but we already had a couple ones already.
Isn't the victory class already canon?
The resurgent first order star destroyer is a beast..unlike the imperial star destroyers, it clearly can handle its self in fighter defense..so i dint think they will utilize corvettes for that reason.
MY biggest problem with the First Order is that it wouldn't have the resources to build all of this. The First Order would be much more like the Rebellion.
John W. Black They probably have factories in the unknown regions
Bruce Jedi Lee well then this story is bullshit
John W. Black Why?
They came from the unknown regions which is the point. That place is unknown and could have tons of resources
+iTZ_Merp
It's a bit lazy, though.
Writer 1: "How can we make a threatening evil presence after ROTJ"
Writer 2: "Make the galaxy go through complicated political manoeuvring and show the inherent problem with insurgents of many different political beliefs taking power and setting up government?"
Writer 1: "Nah"
Writer 3: "What about basing them in the unknown regions and making them super mysterious?"
Writer 1: "I like it!"
I feel like Snoke might actually be the CEO of Kuat Drive Yards, the military industrial manufacturer of most Empire and FO craft. It'd explain his resources and vast wealth, and how he saw the Empire rise and fall. As they say, "money is the root of all evil". Sometimes more terrifying, too.
Aren't Victory star destroyers already canon?
Corn Marketman do the supremacy vs the mantles approch please
Corn Marketman I'm not so shure
I have done my own calculations for the size of the fleet after watching The Last Jedi 1 Supremacy one executor 1 Siege dreadnought P.S these are the dreadnought 100 resurgence and 200 modified Imperial two class Star Destroyers estimated around 25,000 fo Tie fighters 5000 SF Tie fighters and 1 tie silencer.
Mammoth tank (command and conquer 3) vs atat
Hmmm... that's a tough one...
How I see it is that the First Order acquired plans first created by the Empire and the Tarkin Initiative in which they decided to make so tweaks and adjustments to them in order to create their ships. Next, they were possibly financed by mob bosses and CEOs of companies who were sympathetic to the Empire. Plus as you said, they had a lot of time, (30 years is longer than the Empire's existence), with no pressure from the outside, the gathering of resources by unknown planets in the Unknown regions and financed by those in higher up places sympathetic to the Empire before it collapsed.
Audiences watching TFA: Good Lord, are the First Order going to be more Nazi like than the Empire?
TLJ: 😏
That Mega Star Destroyer is like a giant B-2 Stealth Bomber.
Don't you guys just absolutely love how the sequel trilogy is just diminishing the work of the heroes from the OT.
Legends did it but Legends wasn't even real, this shit is cannon, this shit is actually real within the universe. I'm not saying there shouldn't be another war, I'm saying this cash grab of a trilogy shouldn't exist. Even if it has to because Disney is evil... at least don't make all the heroes "myths" who are either hermits, underground leaders or alzheimer's patients. Han should be a general, not a myth, Luke should be in fucking history books and Leia should be a senator or some shit. But no... they are just all replaced by Mary Sue, Han Solo 2, Black stormtrooper with awful dialogue and emo 15 year old Darth Vader.
Legends used to be canon you dipshit
I Hated Shadows Of The Empire becouse it diminished Darth Vader's Redemption and Sacrefice
MartianProductions well I mean I don't mind Rey as a protagonist, but I recommend, reading the the aftermath series by chuck wendig and the Leia book, Star Wars bloodlines by Claudia gray. If there's one thing that's good from the new canon is the books. It also answers a couple of questions like why solo never kept the position of general and why leia left the senate. I highly suggest you read them
Funny considering Legends did the exact same thing
Hey Eckhart, I saw where you said the Mega Star Destroyer has a 60 KM wingspan, but your notes show that it is 60 KM in length, which is traditionally from front to back, not side to side.
I see how it can be easy to get those mixed up as it looks like it couldn't be 60KM long because that would make the wingspan something like 200 - 300 KM wide.
I love your videos, keep up the great work.
Idk... I'm still not all in on the first order because of the way they are presented. If starkiller base was presented as an all in effort by the FO, (like putting all their eggs in one basket), I feel like people would be more accepting. It also would make the venture into the Unknown Regions seem more like an attempt to find more resources not just digging into their massive pile of goodies they have stashed.
If it was an all in effort, then its destruction would likely mean the collapse of the FO, which obviously means no more movies and no more money for Disney.
+. Yes and no, it's all in the writing. Kylo would likely bring much of the forces with him and I'm sure snook would call the scattered remnants to the unknown regions. It really depends on how they would choose to write it, which I would take over the defeated empire being able to terraform an entire planet into a more powerful deaths star with their seemingly unending resources.
Hawk Stirke All in effort = all money and resources invested into the project. If destroyed, all their money and resources are now gone, and the order will collapse, just like every other penniless government.
+. Well you aren't entirely wrong, but again it's all about how you write it. Snook seems to carry as much weight as the emperor did, I feel as though the first order would rally behind him much in the way the warlords rallied behind the reborn emperor in OP Shadow Hamd. If Snook sent out a message for the remaining first order forced to join him in the unknown regions I'm sure the majority would follow out of sheer desperation.
love your videos man. keep it up!!
do the supremacy vs the mantles approch please
you know i was actually going to reply this on all the other comments at this time
The supremacsy(Snoke's ship) gets destroyed and the mandator 4 too.Altough i think the FO had more mandators. Also the Mandator has 25 turbolaser towers and that hole in the middle was it's glaring weakness. Also the FO had XI-shuttles. Finn and Rose use one to get from the exploding Supremacy to Crait. Also if you have not seen the movie , sorry for the spoilers