Can You REALLY Go Faster with Factory MX Suspension?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 พ.ค. 2023
- We're looking to improve our lap times on board a 2023 Fuel Injected KTM 250 SX 2 Stroke...and we might have just found the best way to do it! Aftermarket Motocross suspension is often overlooked as a necessary upgrade for your race machine, but we know for a fact that higher end suspension can drastically improves your lap times around the MX track. So we teamed up with pro rider Josh Spinks and WP Suspension to take an in depth look at 3 different levels of suspension - from stock to 'full factory'. And of course we go the stop watch out to see what difference every level up actually made on track!
A big thanks goes out to Josh Spinks, Karl Anderson, VIP Motocross and WP Suspension UK for making this video possible. Subscribe for weekly Dirt Bike videos :-)
Check out the WP Suspension range of products used in this video here: www.wp-suspension.com/
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Testing Factory Suspension on a Fuel Injected 250 2 Stroke!
How to go Faster on a Fuel Injected 250 2 Stroke! - กีฬา
![คุณอาเรียโต๊ะข้างๆ พูดรัสเซียหวานใส่ซะหัวใจจะวาย ตอนที่ 2 [ซับไทย] 【Ani-One Thailand】](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kbbfYakMY8k/mqdefault.jpg)
You can see how much more planted the bike was and how much smoother it looked throughout the track , honestly suspension is the best upgrade on a bike
I am sure I will be just fine with all the tuning options of my stock Yamaha suspension,--no matter how fast I was. :)
When MXA does not have a clue on bike tuning, (outside of plug in maps, and twisting clickers), then we have a huge problem of not knowing how to tune our stock suspension. You need to tune your suspension for yourself, (have to learn how to do it), because it is very rare that somebody can do a perfect job for you. You can make your stock suspension bounce like a basketball, or stick to the track also. One otehr reason why we no longer know how to set up suspension, is because the tracks don't have very many bumps today, (high speed dirty road race courses), and most people just set up for bottoming resistance for the big jumps.
@@EarthSurferUSAYes, in the USA that is. Way too smooth. Come ride over here in Europe.
Factory suspension would definitely help ! but being 20 years younger would probably help me more at this stage 😂 Good testing max, cheers
Haha I think there's a fair few watching that would 100% agree with you! Thanks for watching bud :-)
35 years for me. but I still love it
Im older. Still geting out there and gettin it!
@@999lazer bro I love your vids but I find myself skipping through them so much. Way too much filler you need to make them more concise. I'm only saying it cuz I want you to blow up bigger than you already are
53 now this season, and the wp xact pro stuff helps a lot to ride comfortable, it fixes mistakes and gives a lot of confidence. Hope they make this stuff at least until I'm 80 years old and it's time to quit motorcross.
you could see the stability change with every upgrade, wow amazing how level through the bumps the stage 3 made the bike, there were noticeable improvements on each upgrade
and joshes opinion was on the level of everything seen in the change of each stage, that was an amazing review, and a valuable lesson.👌👌
You should’ve run comparison laps yourself! Pros are always going to be at their limits so the change in times won’t be as dramatic I would think.
Lower level riders on the other hand pick our limits based on perceived levels of safety! I would think a B & C level rider would show more of a drastic difference in lap times!
Love these videos! and i love that u actually riding on a Rough track, not a smooth one. Well done!
Great video Max, great camera and drone shots, you and josh both hit the nail on the head with your comments on suspension, giving confidence to the rider to trust the bike more .
Thanks for the support as always Kevin! I think we'd certainly be better off dialing in suspension before we got hunting for more horse power!
Look at the line ups at British championships or nationals KAS stickers adorn a majority of the bikes that shows Karl does a fantastic job..i personally used to have stock suspension revalved for my fat self and that was brilliant..now i have WP cone valve forks and Trax shock done by Karl on my kx250 and i can honestly say its next level stuff the next day you dont feel like you have been hit by a lorry ..you just trust it way more no washing out no kicking ..people spend so much money on anodised crap pipes they cant get the benefit from and shit loads of stickers ...get suspension peeps you wont regret it.
I upgraded the boys 65 with the 6500 fork kit, that alone has changed his riding massively!
Hi pal hope your well. Great video thanks dident have a clue before. Getting mine done now thanks max
Great content! Thanks Max! Best regards from germany. 🙂
Thank you
Your spoiling us now Max, great content, Spinks feedback is spot on, really makes you understand how much suspension makes a difference 👌🏻. Looking forward to more YZ 125 content with Roland
Thanks James, we really appreciate the support dude. Next 125 vid with Roland coming next week....and possibly a follow up the week after as well :-D
Good review, way better than MXA could do today. I am not going to give the lap times much weight, because I know the rider is getting used to the tack also and that is a hard factor to measure. But the Pro rider and the representative comments from WP, with a track that is actually stating to get rough, makes this a pretty good vid, (which is rare today) for WP service. You guys do pretty good work, and I don't think you let it go to your head so it can improve.
Camera work was great you got the shot nice and clear the slow mo showed all the detail, well done Max or who ever shot it
Thanks Rumpel
When it comes to suspension upgrades, the answer is allways yes.
That shot at 13:37 is magical. A+ to whoever set that up
I think the proper thing todo here would have been to revalve the stock stuff and get that as good as it can be then step up to the a kit stuff as good as that can be and go from there.
Racing isn't about how fast you can go on your best lap. It's about an average how fast you go. Imo you should do an average time of like 3-5 laps or something along those lines
Nice! Thanks for sharing love it! about the times looks like the track got pretty nasty by final stage its all about feeling comfortable adds to confidence Awesome.
Great well made video and an extremely relevant topic.
Probably a bit unpopular comment but…
I just wish you’d split that up 3 ways for a pro level, your average rider and your unsupported weekend warrior.
I really see the value in that. It’s great seeing a pro rider with a pro WP technician trackside to sort everything out. But please repeat that for the average guy with no trackside support.
So many times I see regular riders absolutely lost with their set up with the infinite adjustments that can be made - even with a suspension set up crib sheet. Occasional if they’re lucky they strike gold, worse case scenario though is their suspension does something they weren’t expecting and they hit the deck.
One size does not fit all and seeing you guys do another collaboration with WP and to the target masses (I.e. not pro) would be a real winner. IMO.
Love your work, keep it up.
Good suspension is worth every penny. Not only for feel more confident or do better times but it can take overshooting the jump or it’s sometimes more forgiving. Set of Öhlins and sxs competition (first cone valve) save my body from injury multiple times.
I totally agree (and i know Josh does too), being able to recover for those mistakes quickly and ride away safely is so important! Thanks for watching :-)
Was hoping to see a back to back comparison of the WP 7448 AER CV fork with the 23 AER fork. Best AER fork out the box yet compared with the factory version.
Both that and the video with the Kawasaki kinda feel like AER is ok… but spring CC and CV CC are better. Would like to see a Back to Back with AER Vs AER, even AER Vs Spring CV.
Coming from spring CV forks on a 15 300EXC, to 23 300SX with AER . Ridden 21/22/23 AER forks, the 23 are great, liking them more than I’d expected to. Also not touched a clicker on the 300SX yet (only 7hrs in though… just run in). Genuinely interested in the comparison or reviews of the 7448 but can’t find any.
Trax a great addition, the comment on the earlier video with the Kawasaki about the bladder being good but no Trax, is spot on. It’s a different animal. 😁
Another great video and good content… 7448 Vs 7548 CV review is a good shout for another. 😉
Great video 👍🏻
Thanks Ragnar :-D
Hi, great vid! I think the test should measure how quickly he can complete 20 laps. When you're fresh, your lap times are likely to be closer, regardless of being more active or aggressive with a poorly tuned suspension that consumes more energy for the same speed. For me, the important factor is sustaining the speed of the first two laps for a longer duration, rather than decreasing my lap times, although both would be brilliant! Ultimately, my goal is to maintain freshness and endurance throughout the race.
The proof is in the pudding👏👏 Great job👍
Stage one, better stabilized,less kicking ,better forward traction,shaved 2 full seconds!!! stage 2,he was fully ripping. .FULLY ON IT!! It was very planted and you could tell throughout the track he was more confident on that stage 2
should try KYB, i mean stock kyb > factory wp, therefore factory KYB would be a whole other level
HAHAHAHA
spectacular!!!!
Thanks for watching dude! :D
yes
Better custom set-up will always be better if done with knowledge. Remember regarding all makes/models the engineers have to deal with a showroom model that must try and satisfy an infinite amount of variables. When testing try it blind and with a non vested rider, there can be product bias which can also effect rider confidence, its a thing. Most the brands are ontop of their game, some do get certain models better than others-- again rider preference which includes the bigger picture of backup/ support and understanding. Great video and well filmed.
Great video . Maybe if you're not necessarily chasing lap times, you're at least making the bike easier to ride. Hence, you can ride for longer with less fatigue !!
Great stuff, once you have ridden on Ohlins WP feels second rate...
Seeing thsi legend Back on a Ktm is the one seeing him with factory suspension he is a weapon.
Sorry also amazing Video again max,Cant wait to see what you have next
good video just shows how much your suspension counts in motox always nice to hear a 2stroke getting spanked like that max
I often think suspension can be a bit of an afterthought, especially at grass routes racing, it certainly was when i was growing up...but like you say this just shows how important it really is. I think we'd be way better off getting suspension dialed before we go searching for more ponies! Having Josh rail the 2 stroke all day was a massive plus of doing this shoot! :-D
@@999lazer i think a lots to do with the cost it ain't cheap for the good stuff as you shown and dads wallet can only strech so far most of were still at school when we started.
Quality video guys.I was kinda shocked at the difference in the lap times i didn"t think it would be that big of a differance on a small track like VIP and boy it looked ruff and of corse you used a 2stroke. would like to see a proper review of the new ktm smokers i want to pull the triger and buy one but a bit hesitant .The 24 models have already landed,are you likley to do any reviews on the 24 ktm 2strokes 250 300 there dosnt seem to be any decent UK reviews that i can find? maybe josh could give us a review of his bike and what if any problems,niggles ect that he has had.
I've always felt suspension makes way more of a difference than engine mods
Hey mate, we did actually do a review segment with Josh about the bike on this day for a bonus video that'll be coming out a little later on. We will be testing the full 2024 KTM Enduro range ( 2 strokes and 4 Strokes) on the channel very soon, the test is booked in for the end if the month so we'll have a video all about those soon after. Thanks as always for watching bud
I've never heard of Joe average mx rider preferring air suspension over spring in a back to back test.
Air sucks 👌🏻
Spring all day. So glad KTM is finally getting away from air on the XC bikes
Would love to see say someone like k-tec come down and do a revavle vs stock
I think that's something that we could make happen for sure! Thanks for watching John
To me it seems like Josh a little bit better with the stage 1 upgrade
Really liking these shootout style comparisons. Nice work guys.
i recently did the ktech orcv and bladder in my 500 - NEW BIKE is all i can say, well worth the money and cost about 900 all in - i can not imagine a rider like me burning 5k and actually finding the value in the pro setup even though i can ride pretty quick - nowhere near A or pro level , that is me though
First, I would surely choose professionally set up suspension for my weight/riding style to eliminate any unbalanced set up from the factory - or from my own flawed clicker settings. Second, I know that if I took a spill, it was my due to my riding error and not the bike. LOL, I would know which to work on - the bike or my goofy riding errors!
I think your channel is fucking killing it !!!
So glad you're enjoying the videos dude :-D
Josh Spinks is a good 2 stroke rider. Hopefully can see more of him riding 2 stroke especially 500 2 stroke
Josh is great and awesome on a 500 for sure...i think we'll see some more of him on the channel in the future :-D
The best mod that can be done to anu bike is to get the suspension reworked and set up for you and your ability. If its done by a reputable shop you should get good stuff back.
It’s hard to use any of the air fork bikes as a base. They change all throughout the day. Hell all through out the motos. I’ve been helping some of my friends set up their new ktm. And In the mornings they will get it dialed in. But by noon when it starts to get hot. They are back to being too stiff or to soft
Another great vlogg max , I need my 2006 YZ 250 KYB suspension refurbished, CAN you recommend any one. I’m not at pro or amateur level, but just want Good suspension for myself
Hey mate, Karl Anderson of KAS suspension who we featured in this video really knows his stuff. But depending where you're based and how far you want to travel i could also recommend Ryan at Shocktech suspension or Stuart Holland at SHMX. Thanks for watching as always buddy
@@999lazer Thanks Max appreciate it 👊🏻👊🏻💯
Race Tech Gold Valve and Gold Valve 2 systems are economical and have worked well for me.
But if I had the money, and I could find them, I'd be riding Öhlins..
Science
What kind of drone is that? I’d like to do a similar video. Btw I got the 6500 kit with bladder, love it!
This is a DJI FPV drone, it provides awesome footage for a video like this :-D
So the more the suspension becomes Kayaba, the better it gets. So japan has something right.
Great video there. It would of been good if you swapped the suspension over not telling josh what you've done, ruling out the placebo.
For sure it helps. But you need to be able to set it up anyway!
I wonder though how much of the value comes from the actual guy setting up the suspension. So your average joe buys it and doesn't really set it properly and/or take advantage of all the adjustment available? For factory guys they probably know how each track on the circuit is going to develop throughout the day based on history and what the settings should be for their rider to get the best set up? The comment from the tuner about analyzing the bumps was the most interesting thing for me. I would think there is a lot of testing and knowledge to figure out how to take advantage of the top dollar suspension. I'm not slamming the idea of anyone buying better suspension and would if I had the money to allocate to that lol. Great, interesting video.
as long as your sag is right everyone will benefit from a kit suspension even when not setup perfect. rode somone else his bike who is probably 10s a lap faster than me and a few kg hevier but it still was a massive imporovment from the stock stuf.
I see how much more grab Josh has in the corners..
More power only helps when you have the throttle pinned. Better suspension helps EVERYWHERE.
I ride on my Gilera XR-1 and have a maximum speed 165km/h. With ordinary carburetor. Bike made in Italy.
I bet I can run 2:20 laptimes with my 1996 Suzuki RMX250 on this same track.
Bottom line, before I listen to the vid. No, if you don't have pro speed. The stock suspension is different on different bike brands and model years, but they all have more tuning options than MXA twisting the clickers for a test. Spring rates/air pressure, oil viscosity, oil height, valving (most people do not do their own valving, but can be sent to a reputable company), all dramatically change how your suspension works. When the stock suspension is tuned well for you and what kind of riding you do, you will find that you can not push it to it's limits untill get get very very fast. Still, I am sure many pro racers, are using a well working tuned stock suspension today.
Learn how your suspension works, (Exercise for the brain. Watch it get stronger too.). Read some books, (from reputable long lasting people, like Race Tech and their suspension bible.). Adjust yours and learn from any mistakes you won't admit you made, lol. It is just about as fun making your bike work better as it is winning a race.
Doug in Michgian
I judge suspension on how I feel the next day. I'm pretty close on stock compared to akit but the next day after riding stock I can hardly get off the couch and feel like a victim of a home invasion lol
haha That's probably the best criteria to judge to be fair lol thanks for watching bud!
Plus, I enjoyed the proper etiquette of rational and intelligent human beings when conversing track side, by not talking over the passing 2-stroke sounds. :)
so final answer from a wp supported test - the air forks aren't working
How much was the stage 1 coast to do cheeds
Hi Gary, stage one costs are as follows;
Xact Pro 6500 Cartridge Kit- £962.60 inc VAT
Bladder Kit - £113.75 inc VAT
Thanks for watching! :-)
Cheers pal much appreciated for the reply and ur videos are mint mate I have a sx 125 2023 so might get the stage one kit cheers again
Do rear shock springs "break in" and "sack out" normally like Ping says?
What does Ping know about the "yeild point" of metals?
I know passing the yield point of his brain has permanently deformed it.
Blader kit is only for lighter racer under 60 kg.
I bet if you did a blind test and retested the stock stuff, he would have beat the original time of 1:29.10
yea yea, then why is AP7 CW2 running stock air forks and stock rear shock? in outdoors🤣
#ThisIsAnAd
#first
Thanks for watching dude!
@@999lazer no problem keep it up👍
Yes......unless your achilles tendon explodes, then no.
Poor Eli...heartbreaking stuff!
I've told racers for years stop buying pipes and crap , And get suspension
хочу кросс😢
I guess if your a pro, but $3-$4,000 for less than one second out of 1:27 isn’t much 🤷🏻♂️
.01 second can be the difference between winning and being the first loser.
It's huge.
Who cares about the pros. Put C class intermediate and novice guys out there. Thumbs down.
Bruf, The Pro stuff is REALLY for the Pros. I could see he looked like a good local Expert on the stock stuff.
Level 1 he attacked the turns a bit better, nothing Earth shaking.
Lever 2 was like HOLY SCHITT!! 🤯👀😧 There he looked like the National level Pro that he is. The bike was very flat, not bugging out at all and you could see and HEAR his throttle. He was longer on the gas, quicker to get on the gas out of the turns, and much less time between the moments of off then back on the gas.
Max, imo factors include that he was getting more tired as the laps wore on and the track was also getting rougher as time went on.
Amazing to watch a real National Pro keep inching his way up like this.😎🤩 Braaap on Josh Spinks. Say hello to your boxing
brethren, Leon and Michael... Lol😉💪🏻😎💪🏾👍🏼
*if you're under 40 you have no clue,
Leon www.reuters.com/article/uk-people-leon-spinks-idINKBN2A7012
Michael
www.boxingnews24.com/2022/07/michael-spinks-heads-pab-hof-inductees-sunday/
Josh
gatedrop.com/josh-spinks-steps-away-from-professional-racing/amp/
Now Max, if i don't get a 💖 on this comment i only have one thing to tell you....
"I don't know who you are, I don't know where you live, but one thing I do have is a very particular lack of skills in my texting proofreadign. I will blow you're phone up with sew much nonsense your head will spinn and you will run to Bellevue because you need a padded sell and a straitjacket." 🤯😉😅🤔🤔🤔
Drakkar Noire, uhm, gooood LUCK.
Best of comment of the day for sure! ;-D Thanks for watching mate!
@@999lazer hahaha, thanks Max. Been s fan for over a year now. Great stuff you do.
yikes... $10k for 2 seconds????
2 seconds / lap is HUGE in racing.