Amani War Bear is the perfect example of that card that seems underwhelming but once you try it, somehow surpasses every expectation by cleanly trading a minion and staying on board as a taunt. I myself thought it would be an ok card but not strong enough to actually see play. Once someone played this card against me, I quickly saw my mistake though. The famous saying goes: “Never underestimate direct board presence or yours will be gone for this match”
Schumerus also though that minions that can effect the board the same turn they’re played are usually pretty good. Then also note the 5 health number. 5 health is usually what it takes to kill a good card played in the mid game. After turn 7 that number goes up a lot.
You're my favourite hearthstone TH-camr. BTW you misrated much lesser number of cards than most of the others. I wish that, one day you'll need to change the name of channel ( if you know what I mean ). ♡
Overall a good take, I just wanna mention a sort of systemic problem in the thinking regarding a Bane of Doom and Baited Arrow comparison. Comparing best and worst case scenarios is typically ill-advised, rather I'd suggest you use an expected value analysis to figure out the average stats of a Bane of Doom drop.
Realizing and accepting you may be or in fact are wrong about anything is a skill only remarkably intelligent people posses. It's only better for you that you can actually and realistically fix those mistakes made, apart from how it is in real life, when nothing can really be taken back or repaired.
Interesting thing I've noticed with Echo cards Penniless (Yes I know echo was 2 expansions ago) Echo spells tend to cost one more than non-echo counterparts. Compare Pickpocket to Burgle. Compare Sound the Bells to Unholy Strength (or whatever the name of that 1 mana 1/2 paladin buff) Compare cheap shot to unut graded druid spells tone. But not so with minions. Walnut Sprite and Our Vigil Shall Never End are 3/3 and 2/4 each, both only 1 mana less than the 3/4 statline. From a design perspective, why do you think this is?
It's that 1 card = 1 mana holds truer for spells than for minions, let me (try to) explain: 1) The extra mana you pay in echo cards is for an increase of value AND flexibility you get from that single card (spacewise) in your deck. 2) Spells have a limited use as you can't continually expliot them (like atacking with a minion) so being able to use them many times gains more importance in them than in minions. 3) Echo cards are mostly worse in a singular outcome against any similar cards -> a 3/4 without echo is able to defeat a 3/3 with, - the 4 mana 4/4 buff is better than the 2 mana 1/2 buff, etc. 4) Minions achieve a stronger value the longer they stay on the boar - they can deal the damage a spell does many times by themselves on that case, so it's not like they need the value that much. So when you use a minion with echo, the aditional cost (in stats) goes more on behalf of flexibility, not so much the card value because they are more susceptible to board clear effects than high statted minions and are overall easier to deal with, so it's not like they handle later stages that well either (as spells do).
The two mana echo minions are more like one mana value (Ghost angler = raven, squashling = voodoo doctor). Two mana echos can be played 5 times while three mana echos can be played 3 times so three mana cards are closer to vanilla value.
Its because 1 mana echo spells are very dangerous. For example when playing evolve shaman there is 1/54 chance to get a radiant elemental from earthern might. When I then play radiant, my evolve costs 0 and I win the game in most cases, because turns out, a bunch of 10 mana minions on turn 4 are pretty good. If the rogue spell that costs (2) mana and deals 2 damage would cost (1) instead and you would somehow get a radiant elemental or a sorcerer apprentice, which isn’t unlikely in tess rogue, it would become a (0) mana clear your opponents board, even if they have 7 deathwings and thats pretty OP. So Blizzard made them more expensive, because of minions, that reduce the mana cost of spells.
Also, there are 7 minion slots, so echo minions are also physically limited. (You could print a 0 mana echo minion and it wouldn't totally break the game.)
1:45 Anyone could have seen that Ziji wasn't going to have an effect on combo. I mean think about it, Combo typically runs a lot of control cards to combat Aggro, and considering that they could afford to play Control cards at 6 mana AND you are also hit by this... It only truly was good against Mecha'Thun because if you play it right when they are out of a deck, it's 15 damage from fatigue and since they usually won't have an answer to Ziji because it's their using Mecha'Thun, that's an additional 20 damage from Ziji.
I think there’s something to say about baited arrow fitting into a relatively pushed archetype as well - spell hunter was very powerful with all of the tools it received.
Just one more thing to add about Baited Arrow. While it's not going to be used for this 90% of the time, it could be used in fringe situations for the last bit of damage to close out games.
But baited Arrow Deals more damage,AND is in Hunter,which is far more agressive then warlock. Aggressive Hunters run baited Arrow,but zooloock doesnt Run bane of Doom.
Lol, ‘I failed to recognize this cards ability to combat combo’. You’ve never played a CCG before? Very nice insight into the secret card. . . . Nice graphics, too.
The correct prediction was "Amani war bear is bad but fits odd quest warrior (and maybe deathrattle hunter)." "Amani war bear is bad" is a much better prediction than "Amani war bear is good". 7:34 Sul'traze isn't good in any deck. It only sees play in some rush warrior lists as a 1-of, and is the worst card in the list.
I really like the idea of a website with all the information on cards. (Or any other way we can see the ratings on each card, but I can only think of an website. xP)
The only card i really misrated was sightless ranger. I figured that 5 mana, kill a minion summon beast tokens would be decent enough for aggro decks to edge out against opposing aggressive or midrange decks. In reality, summoning some 1/1s isn’t really enough
In your Mass Hysteria example you used 3 water elementals. Are you sure the one who is attacked by the first attacking elemental, is still able to attack even though it has been frozen?
Hey man can you eventually make a video talking about wild, cause i have been getting into wild and holy moly i havent had this fun in hearthstone in a while, i recommend you to play wild now that standart has become hunterstone, heroes of reexar, its so much fun than standart right now
Wild has jade and honestly i think its the most fun to play deck, so yeah wild is really fun because its so chaotic, youre like, what kind of deck is this player playing?
Gurubashi chicken maybe? I do still think it deserves a low rating considering it can pretty much only be used in 1 deck archetype, but i dont think it deserves mostest stupidest for it
For a card that I personally misrated: Spirit of the Shark. When seeing this for the first time, I thought it would mark the return of Quest Rogue for the 4th time. To my surprise, it wasn't even included in most Rogue decks at the start of the expansion.
@@dushas9871 A four mana 0 attack that has the potential to enable many stupid combos (SI-7, Mushroom Power, Bonemare, Old Chaingang, and most importantly, TRUTH IS FOUND IN DEATH!).
Relptica that’s because druid were combo decks. But also to me it was apparent that at least priest combos were gonna be more powerful. I didn’t bet on paladin being as big but many of the Rasta cards were combo oriented.
Wuj0 - The Man, The Myth, The Legend. Yea that card will probably be busted at one point. It may find it’s way into even shamen but there’s so many good early drops. When those get rotated there may be a void
uhm it worked decently, it has a certain early aggro till mid phase to it. Takes people by surprise and they dont know the expected combinations i had. But things like odd palladin or a control warrior often led to a defeat. Enjoyed it though, something different that i dont encounter much.
"literally infinite" well given there's a finite amount of unique minions and finite board space, this is untrue. I'm not gonna do the maths cause I'm lazy but it would still be unreasonably high Edit: I don't really know why i felt the need to point that out either, im tired forgive me
@@Andrewlik I got that far, just couldnt be bothered to find the number of playable cards. Heres a super rough estimate anyway, there are 1868 cards in standard rn, gonna approx that half are minions so we got 934 minions. using a combination calculator if there are 14 minions on the board thats 4.9*10^30 combinations. You also have to do this for every combination of number of minions below 14 (i.e who owns what, if there are 2 minions there are 3 combinations, going up to 13 minions where there are 91). working all that out is more effort than im wiling to put in but you get a stupid big number at the end
@@hector-m-carrillo why make a complicated system if it doesnt work better than a simpler one? :p I see this a lot in design. People thinking automatically that complicated is better, even if a simpler system would work as well or even better in practice :p you need to get some return for the complexity.
@@gothicfly these cards would still be misrated in the normal system So if misrating is independent of rating system, then failing to properly rate does not imply the worth of the system Note I'm not taking a stance on the validity of the system, just your observations
@@hector-m-carrillo true. So there would need to be other value with the system than how well it can rate the cards. And I do like the analytical approach and maybe it can be useful. While I still wonder if it actually does anything better than your intuition.
Andrew Chen I think it’s a fine card in theory. It just doesn’t have a home. But by penniless’ sub definitions, it probably wouldn’t fit into “pretty good. Maybe fun for arena.
5. I thought would only be a niche like in aggro decks to lower control etc from suing it mana correctly. Overall better than I thought but not way off. 4.I thought this card would be really good in quest or taunt druid not in as many decks as it is. overall stronger than i thought 3. Didn't know it existed lol 2.I thought it was a worse flanking strike and the overkill mechanic would be clunky. overall it is stronger than I thought it would be especially in spell hunter. 1.I thought would suck dont wanna lose my minions. I was wrong like i was about scream.Overall way better than anticipated. I rated Blood claw high myself and i think it will get better but my luck it wont.
@@il6315 Singular they has been in use for a long time. You probably often use it without thinking in a situation like "Oh someone's at the door, go get them." Also, some people's pronouns are they and you should be inclusive of those people which he or she would not be.
Amani War Bear is the perfect example of that card that seems underwhelming but once you try it, somehow surpasses every expectation by cleanly trading a minion and staying on board as a taunt. I myself thought it would be an ok card but not strong enough to actually see play. Once someone played this card against me, I quickly saw my mistake though. The famous saying goes: “Never underestimate direct board presence or yours will be gone for this match”
Oh yeah... that famous saying...
Schumerus also though that minions that can effect the board the same turn they’re played are usually pretty good. Then also note the 5 health number. 5 health is usually what it takes to kill a good card played in the mid game. After turn 7 that number goes up a lot.
It is a worse firelands portal which is still good
i think your math on the water elemental Mass hysteria is wrong.
25% of 2 3/3 living
25% of 1 3/6 living
50% doom
0:42 I feel like he is foreshadowing here
Evan Olszewski 2 weeks later "this video was brought to you by squarespace......"
*I'll be sure to nEVER make that mistake eVER again* kappa
You're my favourite hearthstone TH-camr. BTW you misrated much lesser number of cards than most of the others.
I wish that, one day you'll need to change the name of channel ( if you know what I mean ). ♡
This is so true he is to be honest one of the best hearthstone content creators in my opinion
I don't know what he studied or works at but this guy clearly have a good knowledge about maths and card game theory, balance etc...
BERGAOUI Kais Applied math and statistics mb?
Overall a good take, I just wanna mention a sort of systemic problem in the thinking regarding a Bane of Doom and Baited Arrow comparison. Comparing best and worst case scenarios is typically ill-advised, rather I'd suggest you use an expected value analysis to figure out the average stats of a Bane of Doom drop.
Realizing and accepting you may be or in fact are wrong about anything is a skill only remarkably intelligent people posses. It's only better for you that you can actually and realistically fix those mistakes made, apart from how it is in real life, when nothing can really be taken back or repaired.
Interesting thing I've noticed with Echo cards Penniless (Yes I know echo was 2 expansions ago)
Echo spells tend to cost one more than non-echo counterparts.
Compare Pickpocket to Burgle.
Compare Sound the Bells to Unholy Strength (or whatever the name of that 1 mana 1/2 paladin buff)
Compare cheap shot to unut graded druid spells tone.
But not so with minions. Walnut Sprite and Our Vigil Shall Never End are 3/3 and 2/4 each, both only 1 mana less than the 3/4 statline.
From a design perspective, why do you think this is?
It's that 1 card = 1 mana holds truer for spells than for minions, let me (try to) explain:
1) The extra mana you pay in echo cards is for an increase of value AND flexibility you get from that single card (spacewise) in your deck.
2) Spells have a limited use as you can't continually expliot them (like atacking with a minion) so being able to use them many times gains more importance in them than in minions.
3) Echo cards are mostly worse in a singular outcome against any similar cards -> a 3/4 without echo is able to defeat a 3/3 with, - the 4 mana 4/4 buff is better than the 2 mana 1/2 buff, etc.
4) Minions achieve a stronger value the longer they stay on the boar - they can deal the damage a spell does many times by themselves on that case, so it's not like they need the value that much.
So when you use a minion with echo, the aditional cost (in stats) goes more on behalf of flexibility, not so much the card value because they are more susceptible to board clear effects than high statted minions and are overall easier to deal with, so it's not like they handle later stages that well either (as spells do).
The two mana echo minions are more like one mana value (Ghost angler = raven, squashling = voodoo doctor). Two mana echos can be played 5 times while three mana echos can be played 3 times so three mana cards are closer to vanilla value.
Its because 1 mana echo spells are very dangerous.
For example when playing evolve shaman there is 1/54 chance to get a radiant elemental from earthern might. When I then play radiant, my evolve costs 0 and I win the game in most cases, because turns out, a bunch of 10 mana minions on turn 4 are pretty good.
If the rogue spell that costs (2) mana and deals 2 damage would cost (1) instead and you would somehow get a radiant elemental or a sorcerer apprentice, which isn’t unlikely in tess rogue, it would become a (0) mana clear your opponents board, even if they have 7 deathwings and thats pretty OP.
So Blizzard made them more expensive, because of minions, that reduce the mana cost of spells.
Also, there are 7 minion slots, so echo minions are also physically limited. (You could print a 0 mana echo minion and it wouldn't totally break the game.)
6:16 now that you say it,how does The Card Work with freeze? I 2 W-Elem. Attack,The third one is frozen usually.
1:45
Anyone could have seen that Ziji wasn't going to have an effect on combo. I mean think about it, Combo typically runs a lot of control cards to combat Aggro, and considering that they could afford to play Control cards at 6 mana AND you are also hit by this... It only truly was good against Mecha'Thun because if you play it right when they are out of a deck, it's 15 damage from fatigue and since they usually won't have an answer to Ziji because it's their using Mecha'Thun, that's an additional 20 damage from Ziji.
The last background track you play is from a ATLA porn game a played once and it sends me into a PTSD attack whenever you is it so thanks
I love your rating system. Gives a bit more description than a score out of five stars.
oh thats interesting I hate it
its always a treat whenever peniless uploads, i love listening to this stuff while working. its extremely interesting i find.
I think there’s something to say about baited arrow fitting into a relatively pushed archetype as well - spell hunter was very powerful with all of the tools it received.
0:42 Aragorn is pleased
Idk why, but I really like you. You have a certain charm that makes me want to root for you. I wish you nothing but success in life, bro
Just one more thing to add about Baited Arrow. While it's not going to be used for this 90% of the time, it could be used in fringe situations for the last bit of damage to close out games.
Kirk Veli -> Doom of Bane can do the same >.>
But baited Arrow Deals more damage,AND is in Hunter,which is far more agressive then warlock. Aggressive Hunters run baited Arrow,but zooloock doesnt Run bane of Doom.
@@wuj0-themanthemyththelegen856 I'm aware, I didn't mention it for the other commentor's reasons.
Lol, ‘I failed to recognize this cards ability to combat combo’. You’ve never played a CCG before? Very nice insight into the secret card. . . . Nice graphics, too.
The correct prediction was "Amani war bear is bad but fits odd quest warrior (and maybe deathrattle hunter)."
"Amani war bear is bad" is a much better prediction than "Amani war bear is good".
7:34 Sul'traze isn't good in any deck. It only sees play in some rush warrior lists as a 1-of, and is the worst card in the list.
I really like the idea of a website with all the information on cards. (Or any other way we can see the ratings on each card, but I can only think of an website. xP)
Ever thought about making video coverong failure of windfury?
Thanks for your awesome content!
5:39 Your Precision F-Strikes make me laugh a lot.
The only card i really misrated was sightless ranger. I figured that 5 mana, kill a minion summon beast tokens would be decent enough for aggro decks to edge out against opposing aggressive or midrange decks. In reality, summoning some 1/1s isn’t really enough
I thought the same about Bane of Doom for about a year, you're not alone mate :)
You should make a website, and allow others to rate cards on your system as well. It's a good system.
Thank you for the analysis!
In your Mass Hysteria example you used 3 water elementals. Are you sure the one who is attacked by the first attacking elemental, is still able to attack even though it has been frozen?
Yes, even frozen minions attack in Mass Hysteria, saw it on toast's stream.
Ah, intuition is not always bulshit... It just needs a lot of fine tuning! ^^
Great job bro
A little over 3 weeks till the next expansion announcement...hype!
Hey man can you eventually make a video talking about wild, cause i have been getting into wild and holy moly i havent had this fun in hearthstone in a while, i recommend you to play wild now that standart has become hunterstone, heroes of reexar, its so much fun than standart right now
Boi, I’m playing different Reno Hunter versions for months and I’m in love with it!
Wild has jade and honestly i think its the most fun to play deck, so yeah wild is really fun because its so chaotic, youre like, what kind of deck is this player playing?
Druid controls both Wild and standard, along with many style of OTKs and Disguised Toast Synergy Discoveries
Also, some rating could still be true when some expansions rotate out, im keeping an eye out for the silince taunt minion and absorb damage snapjaw
I like your analysises.
Gurubashi chicken maybe? I do still think it deserves a low rating considering it can pretty much only be used in 1 deck archetype, but i dont think it deserves mostest stupidest for it
So You don't build an entire Deck around this card,or ignore it?
For a card that I personally misrated: Spirit of the Shark. When seeing this for the first time, I thought it would mark the return of Quest Rogue for the 4th time. To my surprise, it wasn't even included in most Rogue decks at the start of the expansion.
4 mana for 0 attack?!?!? do you even face brah?!?!?
@@dushas9871 A four mana 0 attack that has the potential to enable many stupid combos (SI-7, Mushroom Power, Bonemare, Old Chaingang, and most importantly, TRUTH IS FOUND IN DEATH!).
@@Crawdithe98 can it go face?!?! NO FACE NO GOOD CARD!
What??? How did you not know Mojomaster was an anticombo card?
Relptica that’s because druid were combo decks. But also to me it was apparent that at least priest combos were gonna be more powerful. I didn’t bet on paladin being as big but many of the Rasta cards were combo oriented.
I always get destroyed by Hysteria high rolls. Almost always is a 5 mana twisting nether.
penniless, dane hearth and regiskillbin is the best combo
Fun for the arena
Missed Gonk, not a meta card but trolly enough in the right deck to make people lose their shit in HS forums
Actually I think your previous take on Shieldbreaker was right. This card is so OP in Pirate Warrior in Wild!
Wuj0 - The Man, The Myth, The Legend. Yea that card will probably be busted at one point. It may find it’s way into even shamen but there’s so many good early drops. When those get rotated there may be a void
Love your channel. Hate your rating system 😂
I thought that was distinguishing not rating
Bullshit isn't a bad word
I tought super collidef was garbage, boi I was wrong
Well... Grim Rally is underrated...
Yeah im the guy that build a whole deck around dozed marksmen and the 3 mana 2/4 whip
Luckynumber slevin did it work?
uhm it worked decently, it has a certain early aggro till mid phase to it. Takes people by surprise and they dont know the expected combinations i had. But things like odd palladin or a control warrior often led to a defeat. Enjoyed it though, something different that i dont encounter much.
Honestly fuck Mass Hysteria
0:59... *considerED
Was that on purpose, as an example, or just a convenient mistake? LOL
Hey! Good job... nice channel.... cool videos... just started following your twitch.tv as well!
"literally infinite" well given there's a finite amount of unique minions and finite board space, this is untrue. I'm not gonna do the maths cause I'm lazy but it would still be unreasonably high
Edit: I don't really know why i felt the need to point that out either, im tired forgive me
Basically you could have anywhere from 0-14 minions in play.
@@Andrewlik I got that far, just couldnt be bothered to find the number of playable cards. Heres a super rough estimate anyway, there are 1868 cards in standard rn, gonna approx that half are minions so we got 934 minions. using a combination calculator if there are 14 minions on the board thats 4.9*10^30 combinations. You also have to do this for every combination of number of minions below 14 (i.e who owns what, if there are 2 minions there are 3 combinations, going up to 13 minions where there are 91). working all that out is more effort than im wiling to put in but you get a stupid big number at the end
TLDR There is a marioplex number of possibilities
Makes complicated rating system. Still fails at rating cards. Worth it?
Yes
I don't see what one has to do with the other?
@@hector-m-carrillo why make a complicated system if it doesnt work better than a simpler one? :p I see this a lot in design. People thinking automatically that complicated is better, even if a simpler system would work as well or even better in practice :p you need to get some return for the complexity.
@@gothicfly these cards would still be misrated in the normal system
So if misrating is independent of rating system, then failing to properly rate does not imply the worth of the system
Note I'm not taking a stance on the validity of the system, just your observations
@@hector-m-carrillo true. So there would need to be other value with the system than how well it can rate the cards. And I do like the analytical approach and maybe it can be useful. While I still wonder if it actually does anything better than your intuition.
it would be so cool if you would make MTGA videos also... but your content is still awesome as it is. keep the good work
You misrated Mark of the Loa. If I remember correctly, you gave it "pretty good" - which is completely off.
Andrew Chen I think it’s a fine card in theory. It just doesn’t have a home. But by penniless’ sub definitions, it probably wouldn’t fit into “pretty good. Maybe fun for arena.
What if
5. I thought would only be a niche like in aggro decks to lower control etc from suing it mana correctly. Overall better than I thought but not way off.
4.I thought this card would be really good in quest or taunt druid not in as many decks as it is. overall stronger than i thought
3. Didn't know it existed lol
2.I thought it was a worse flanking strike and the overkill mechanic would be clunky. overall it is stronger than I thought it would be especially in spell hunter.
1.I thought would suck dont wanna lose my minions. I was wrong like i was about scream.Overall way better than anticipated.
I rated Blood claw high myself and i think it will get better but my luck it wont.
Mojomaster is a better loatheb tbh
What if I was the second comment
O
@@leuk2389 O
What if I wasn't the 4th comment
Then nothing would change.
What
Messy rating system
What if I was a comment?
What if no one cares
You should pin this post for the best rng.
What if I was the first comment
W
@@leuk2389 L
What if I was the third comment
W
@@leuk2389 L
Your rating system is whatever.
What if I was a little late to be first
You should use they instead of (s)he
Fly Fu
they doesn't quite work because it is the third person plural. not singular. he or she are the pronouns used when referring to individuals
@@il6315 Singular they has been in use for a long time. You probably often use it without thinking in a situation like "Oh someone's at the door, go get them." Also, some people's pronouns are they and you should be inclusive of those people which he or she would not be.
Fly Fu
just because they is used in the singular connotation doesn't mean it's correct