Magazine Disconnect Controversy - Generally, and Hi-Power Mag Disconnect Specifically

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ม.ค. 2025

ความคิดเห็น • 82

  • @patrickorahilly2862
    @patrickorahilly2862 6 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    Thank you for this very thoughtful and non doctrinaire presentation of the pros and cons of the magazine disconnect. Since I have retired from 28 years of LE I have developed a fondness for the classic BHP and do carry one now that I now able to have a choice of sidearms to carry. All of my background with the Army and Federal LE saw training regimens that overwhelmingly included the use of a tactical reload that required a live round at the ready in the firearm. This is still my default preference for deployment of a sidearm but I now carry a BHP MKlll with a magazine disconnect. I'd like to preach to you that my reason for doing so is purely a tactical one but I must admit that it is really primarily liability driven. I don't want to be to be placed in the position of having to defend intentionally 'defeating' a safety device in court by an overzealous left leaning DA trying to establish better rapport with his anti-2nd Amendment supporters after a justified shooting precisely as you have clearly stated in your video. So I will just have to live with merely cleaning up some of the negative effects of the magazine disconnect feature on the smoothness of the sidearm's action as best I can while still retaining the feature.

    • @red9man2130
      @red9man2130 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      you have stated the matter eloquently. Then again the "issue" can be defeated in court but you are wise not to press it.

    • @markroeder2491
      @markroeder2491 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      It's not a safety, it is a trigger disconnect. Great device for LE in a scuffle, but very dangerous for civilians who may need that chambered round in a life saving application.

  • @theraelchannel8924
    @theraelchannel8924 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I don't buy the concept that in a defensive situation where you might lose the pistol, that you'd have the presence of mind to shift your grip on the pistol to press the mag release and drop the mag. I don't think it can be done during a physical altercation where your mind is elsewhere. Maybe you can choose to drop the mag and then give your pistol to the perpetrator before an altercation happens, but you better make sure that mag cannot be retrieved and re-installed in the pistol. Personally, I'll take my chances without the mag disconnect feature.

  • @Anni3sgotagun
    @Anni3sgotagun 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I can see both points, makes sense to have it in a duty/service pistol and out on target shooting.

  • @thehistoryprof6750
    @thehistoryprof6750 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I have a Bersa Thunder that is in my carry rotation. On one occasion the mag got unseated, but was still in place due to my cover garment. When I unholstered my gun I got an unpleasent surprise that I had a loaded chamber with an inoperable trigger that whole time. That's when the disconnect came out (for me). This was also necessary before I could shoot an IDPA match with this firearm (as we are required to remove our magazine, show empty and drop the hammer or striker to confirm empty). Now... my wife has a Bersa Thunder for home protection that is not carried and we have left the disconnect in that weapon (that is her preference). Most lawyers and some gun defense experts will advise us not to remove a safety feature from our firearms. If any of you have a verified story where a gun owner suffered some legal liability as a result of removing their mag disconnect please share for us. And I do not mean someone who carelessly shoots someone after removing the mag with a chambered round (that liability is warranted). I'm interested in any defensive shoot where the prosecution claims the defendant allegedly showed a careless disregard for safety with exhibit #1 being... they disabled this safety feature (even though it had no direct bearing on the self defense shooting or some other legal speak). Excellent review and fair points for both sides. Thank you.

  • @jimo680
    @jimo680 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wow. Excellent video and explanations. Thanks for the clarity and visuals.

  • @LeeG260
    @LeeG260 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Mark, always very informative content. This was extremely detailed, especially for someone who is not a pistolsmith. I am left with the question of since my 2012 BHP is there at BHSS at the moment, having upgrades performed that include changing the trigger to your wider trigger, which if I understand correctly, does not provide for the magazine disconnect, does (or by how much) my exposure to criminal or civil liability potentially increase? Or does the fact that the magazine disconnect does not function with such trigger negate any added exposure? Has USCCA or any firearm liability defense lawyers weighed in, or better yet defended one of their members/policyholders, on this issue, now that it's been 6 years since you made this video?

  • @drewgraysonxoxopanda
    @drewgraysonxoxopanda ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Springfiled Armory SA-35 since 2021 and new FN High Powers since 2022 do not have magazine disconnects.

  • @j.sagiechode
    @j.sagiechode 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    On that thought, The cops that died because they dropped the mag and needed that one in the pipe, can't really speak of the issue now can they? Plus the triggers on mag DC'd guns turn into gritty nasty messes.

    • @BTCAsia
      @BTCAsia 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      J. Sagiechode nobody shooting semi-auto handguns ever have mag issues right? And I am sure everyone who prefers the mag disconnect never practice malfunction drills because nobody in real life fails to fully seat a mag or ever has an issue with a mag, right?

    • @TomSmith-dp9zb
      @TomSmith-dp9zb 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      the cops that died because they dropped the mag should have had better control of their fucking firearm in the first place

    • @Yankeepride03
      @Yankeepride03 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @UCdv5jvTCdYmSimOZurEXfXw Stupid fucking statement.

  • @leeboggs269
    @leeboggs269 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is the information I needed. Thanks for breaking it down thoroughly

  • @RedHuntsman
    @RedHuntsman ปีที่แล้ว

    The new Beretta 80x has emblazoned on its frame "FIRES WITHOUT MAGAZINE". Likely due to its predecessor, the 84, which did have a mag safety. It's still an issue. Back to High Power's, I picked up an Inglis that had the mag safety removed, but I'm getting the parts to add it back since it is a collector piece, but I will use the optimized BH mag safety spring with it.

  • @aircommando505
    @aircommando505 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    On my Ruger MK111, I removed the mag disconnect as well as the loaded chamber indicator. It has a much better trigger now along with no feed/extract problems.

  • @TheAverageMountainMan
    @TheAverageMountainMan 6 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    The whole concept of the magazine disconnect is strange to be sure. I personally do not put stock in them nor do I train to with firearms that have them. I do not like the device as it is an additional point of failure. Smith and Wesson eventually stopped putting them in their firearms as a stock option. The Hi Power functions better without the disconnect device. The premise of not having a good fundamental training level in retaining your weapon is not a substantial argument for the advocacy of the device. The Glock is perfectly safe if used as designed. The Hi Power is perfectly safe with the device removed if you train to a higher standard. I can see both arguments but I believe in the current trend of LE sidearm use. Glock owns 60-65% of the US LE sidearm market and they do not employ the device. Very few officers today are losing their sidearm in a struggle because of superior holster technology and superior close retention training. They are also much more proficient in hand to hand combatives. This makes a strong case for the elimination of the device altogether.

    • @richardkluesek4301
      @richardkluesek4301 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      The feature was requested by the French Army post WW1 and they did not adopt the HP anyway.

    • @mwnciboo
      @mwnciboo 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I used a Browning Hi Power 9mm in 2005 and 2008 in Iraq as my sidearm (UK Military Officer). Being used to rifles i found the need to have an empty magazine to make the weapon safe a pain in the rear. The classic, safety catch, remove the magazine, cock, hook and look, release action/slide, safety off, fire off the action or de-cock hammer, safety on, insert magazine...Did not apply.... and I think it was #1 cause of Negligent Discharges. So i 100% agree with you, it was a safety device so out of kilter with almost all other weapon systems it caused unnecessary issues thereby making it less safe. But regulations are regulations and tampering with our weapons (even if an armourer) is forbidden. Funny how today the UK Military uses ths GLOCK 19 so clearly the magazine disconnect was not required. Yup, funny old thing the military creates its own BS to justify any old thing.

  • @marklong1453
    @marklong1453 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good points on both sides. I belive in familiarity and have always gone with 1911 style firearms so every gun I carry from micro to sub compact to compact to full size all operate cocked and locked.

  • @gregorystringer9050
    @gregorystringer9050 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have to Girsan MC P35 and would like a link for how to remove the magazine disconnect for the Girsan MC P35 specifically.

  • @jakewerth9614
    @jakewerth9614 ปีที่แล้ว

    Does the Birsan hi power match have a mag disconnect? It will definitely fire without a mag

  • @josephnommensen4025
    @josephnommensen4025 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The people who die as a result of a magazine disconect dont really get to say it killed them. I think I would rather have my loaded gun fire one round and drop the mag as opposed to not at all.

  • @RIPPER334
    @RIPPER334 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Well.... The magazine safety of a hi power prevents a magazine from freely ejecting without using two hands. So being able to hit the mag release when struggling for control of the gun, isn't going to save anyone.
    Personally, I think it's one of the dumbest features to ever be put on a firearm, and JMB did not have one on his original concept of the hi power. It was added by Saive when he took over and completed the design after his passing.
    ...and honestly, I never knew it was a debate. In my 45 years of shooting, 8 years of military, 16 years of law enforcement, and of the thousands of shooters/fellow LEOs, I've know, never heard anyone say they (the mag safety) was a "good" thing... Be it a duty/service gun, or even a range toy.

    • @AzrealMaximus
      @AzrealMaximus ปีที่แล้ว

      Is it possible to steer me towards saive changing the design? I read here I believe, that the French wanted the disconnect, but never purchased the bhp for service. Thanks.

    • @classifiedad1
      @classifiedad1 วันที่ผ่านมา

      The magazine safety was a particular request of the Belgian government, who also didn’t want magazines to be drop free. Saive, the talented engineer he is, made a system that did both, at the expense of complicating disassembly and worsening the trigger. The latter weren’t concerns for the customer’s tastes, and that’s something the customer is always right on.
      I wouldn’t sully Saive’s name over this, as he was instrumental in bringing the pistol to production in Canada for the Allies, and went on to develop the good FN-49 rifle, the great FAL rifle, and the excellent FN MAG, the last one being the ultimate evolution of Browning’s BAR. The blame goes to the customer, really. He gave them what they asked for, and they liked it.
      It’s a well-engineered mechanism that failed to take account usability either intentionally or incidentally, and it seems everyone else found its particular implementation poor. The magazine safety on S&W 39 and 59 semi-autos and the original SIG P210, both Browning-based pistols and excellent firearms in their own right, use a VERY different magazine safety that does not negatively affect trigger pull, the magazine’s ability to drop free, or disassembly.

  • @kodiakkeith
    @kodiakkeith ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I've carried and shot BHPs for over 30 years. The reason for the mag safety was never tactical, it was insisted on by the French Army (that never bought the BHP anyway) as "soldier proofing." The thought was simply that trainees would often forget there was a round in the chamber, but as long as they removed the mag the drill sergeant and others around the trainee were safe from unneeded holes put in them by green soldiers. Saive added the mag safety because the French demanded it. I suspect the only reason FN and the makers of the many copies kept it was simply lawyer proofing. People expect a mag safety in a BHP and if you remove it some fool may have an ND because he thought it was safe. In this country because people tend to gravitate from the 1911 to the BHP, there is no reason at all for it. The "tactical" excuse for the mag safety is out there from people who don't know the history of the original contract. Anyone with sense removes the mag safety at their kitchen table upon purchase. A better trigger pull negates any far-fetched fantasies of the one in a million chance of dropping your mag in a struggle with some attacker.

  • @yutkijsamnong3202
    @yutkijsamnong3202 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I disabled this but retained the part just replace the lighter spring to hold it it place.

    • @AzrealMaximus
      @AzrealMaximus ปีที่แล้ว

      With the lighter spring, does your magazine drop like the 99% pistols out there, or do you still need to strip it out of the mag well?

  • @LRock-um8xo
    @LRock-um8xo 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    On my Browning hi-power, I have the magazines disconnect. I have sanded down the disconnect with emery sandpaper medium grit then with fine, all by hand. Then I polished it with a dremel and some Flitz polishing cream. Also, on all my magazines where the disconnect mark is shown, I gently remove or expose a larger section of the magazine coating and polish it with Flitz by hand. I have noticed this make the trigger pull much smoother as it doesn't grind with the magazine protected coating, and just a smoothed surface. Also, magazines drop easily, especially Mec-Gar 15 rds. I don't recommend for everyone, because they're my mag's, but haven't had issues with rust. If anyone reading this is wondering.

  • @BenyaminMentchale
    @BenyaminMentchale 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Very Methodological analysis.

  • @johnnywadd9918
    @johnnywadd9918 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    If you depress the magazine release while the magazine is out you can depress the trigger on the browning 1911 22.

  • @hebrewhammer5989
    @hebrewhammer5989 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    It is an integral crucial part,it is incorporated into the design for a reason,it aids in the proper angulation of trigger reset.if removed can subject it to a negligent discharge or double discharge.do you remove the muffler from your car,no because it aids n the back compression effort

  • @imthatguy1878
    @imthatguy1878 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    First thing i do with every HP ive owned including the old FEG and Kassner imports, big difference

  • @budm9982
    @budm9982 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very interesting.

  • @RustyJoe
    @RustyJoe ปีที่แล้ว

    I’ve become suspicious of the “magazine safety saved a cops life” stories. I’ve heard it several times from several people and it is always third person “know a cop who”, “I am a cop and I’ve known cops who” or I know a cop who knows a cop who”. If you are grappling and a bad guy is winning the battle for your pistol, how do you get onto the mag release that is against your body in the holster, and in the baddie’s mit?

  • @dalemaloney255
    @dalemaloney255 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    on a gun you leave at home i would say take the mag out, hide it. kid picks it up, cant go off.
    be a good safety for that! so leave that safety in. if, however you carry it, take it out!

  • @rouchenelvann
    @rouchenelvann ปีที่แล้ว

    I think the actual answer should be “it depends on the philosophy of use.” If you are LE or have a high likelihood of dealing with people hand to hand while carrying, then you should have a mag disconnect in case you are overpowered and have the ability to hit the mag release first. But otherwise, you don’t need one. As a private citizen I’m not allowing you to get that close to me to where I’ll need the mag disconnect (generally speaking.) I grew up in rough areas and I don’t let anyone hostile get in my circumference.

    • @rhyswilliam8146
      @rhyswilliam8146 ปีที่แล้ว

      For me I don’t like the idea of magazine disconnects so much. Would rather be able to fire that one round if needed during a mag change but to each there own.

  • @claymcbunch1013
    @claymcbunch1013 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    John Browning didn’t put it on his design so IMO it’s not needed. The French are to blame for this

    • @AzrealMaximus
      @AzrealMaximus ปีที่แล้ว

      The usual bourgeois suspects😤

    • @LAu-zg8cx
      @LAu-zg8cx 3 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      ...and the usual BS: Browning didn't design the BHP. And the final pistol was made for the belgian army, not the french..BTW, Browning himself was fond of mag safeties, look at the Colt 1903 and Browning 1910... The problem with the BHP is people are so ignorant that they perpetuate fakes on YT like parrots. People also think they are super smart because they pull out the mag safety as others tell them to. By removing it, they increase the pull through and also the reset which not very positive from the start. When I remove a mag safety on a BHP or clone, I put a trigger stop too, to give the owner a real benefit.

    • @classifiedad1
      @classifiedad1 วันที่ผ่านมา

      He did put it in his designs. A patent (984,519) submitted on February 17, 1910 and approved on February 14, 1911 detailed such a device as part of a pistol. It was a different design that acted on the magazine catch of all things.
      This didn’t make it into later developments, resulting in the Colt M1911.

  • @nashvillekawboy1805
    @nashvillekawboy1805 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    On the Hi-Power and clones, the magazine disconnect actually stops the magazine from falling free. With the magazine now captured in the pistol, a tap-rack-ready drill instantly defeats what little life-saving utility the disconnect may theoretically have. The S&W pistols with a magazine disconnect allow the magazine to drop free, which then physically separates the pistol from the part that is necessary to fire it. I'm a big JMB fan, but he got this little "feature" wrong. When properly designed and executed, magazine disconnects can save lives, but the system in the Hi-Power and clones is worthless, dangerous, and adversely effects the exquisite single-action trigger. The empty hole in the trigger of all my Hi-Powers is a subtle nod to other Hi-Power aficionados who also know the truth about how this pistol works.

    • @AVATARComander
      @AVATARComander 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      The mag can get hung up (on the disconnect) in a position where the disconnect is disengaged and the gun will fire but won't pick up the next round

  • @LRock-um8xo
    @LRock-um8xo 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    If the magazine safety disconnect is removed in an MK III, will the hammer drop safety still engage if the hammer slips from thumb while decocking?

    • @bhspringsolutionsllc555
      @bhspringsolutionsllc555  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes it will. Mag disconnect is stand-alone system and doesn't interfere with the drop safety in any way.

  • @randomweirdo2701
    @randomweirdo2701 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Mag disconnect safeties have their place. When operating under severe fatigue in operational environments, magazine disconnects save negligent discharges and potentially lives. You can only train out stupid to a certain extent and everyone has a sleep deprivation and fatigue threshold where they become stupid. This is an engineering solution to a problem that CANNOT BE FIXED WITH TRAINING. As the presenter also mentioned it offers a quick way to disable the weapon in a scuffle. It's also a complication that adds a potential failure point.

    • @imthatguy1878
      @imthatguy1878 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Why would a mag disconnect make one safer? I know I'd rather in a time of need be able to place a round in the chamber and fire it should the mag be dropped free

  • @timjohns5354
    @timjohns5354 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think in reality depending on a device is not good there's no issue if you always practice safe handling

  • @richardkluesek4301
    @richardkluesek4301 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    The cops are right, an operator may depend on the ability to discharge a last ditch defensive round with the magazine removed, it could be lost or damaged and there could be an interval between magazine swaps. Commenter John Clemens points out that the retaining pin in the trigger could "walk" to the side jamming movement. I have had a FEG which had a trigger pin "walk" due to an oversized frame hole, so it could occur with a trigger as well. Would rather not have it. I dont plan on surrendering my gun to an assailant and deceiving him by removing the magazine to then make a tricky move to prevail.

  • @mafirearmsafety
    @mafirearmsafety ปีที่แล้ว

    I removed mine from the GSG 1911 .22

  • @williambaker1753
    @williambaker1753 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think any safety feature that can save lives works when and how it's designed to 100% of the time and is easily removed and works perfectly without it and just as easily reinstalled is a great safety feature I'm all for safety and saving lives especially innocent people just trying to do thier jobs.

  • @charredskeleton
    @charredskeleton 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You present many good points here. I agree with your stance.

  • @mikegardner9449
    @mikegardner9449 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Food for thought. Thanks for a balanced discussion. Very few things are black or white.

  • @carlsweeney4514
    @carlsweeney4514 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    How many people have had their weapons stripped from them , I'll bet alot.

  • @failure2flinch876
    @failure2flinch876 6 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I am not buying the scenario we’re someone fighting for their life can find and hit the mag release

    • @ironhorse127
      @ironhorse127 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Guys, its called personal preference. The American way.

    • @BTCAsia
      @BTCAsia 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Surely you jest...I mean an LEO said he knows a guy, unnamed, who knows somebody who was, while in the struggle of his life, able to have the presence of mind to search for, find, and press the mag release as he was losing control of his gun. It’s about safety. You’re not supposed to question it. Just suspend disbelief and adopt their view that you are far more likely to be able to hit your mag release while wrestling an attacker than you are to have any mag related issue with a semi-auto. In fact, instead of practicing malfunction drills for mag issues that never happen, you should be practicing your mag release ninja sumo wrestling skills.

  • @johnclemens5720
    @johnclemens5720 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Totally disagree with your opinion on the Hi Power and it's magazine disconnect. First the mag disconnect on any Hi Power is not 100 percent reliable, know people who have accidently shot themselves because of this, can take any Hi Power with a mag disconnect and make it fire. Why would anyone use a features that are not 100 per cent reliable? Own over 40 Hi Powers not one has a mag disconnect, have removed every one. Have had a Hi Power with a mag disconnect have the disconnect pin "walk" on firing and jam the trigger, another reason to remove it! Best Hi Powers have no mag disconnects.

    • @red9man2130
      @red9man2130 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I,m sure you have heard the argument advanced that an over zealous anti gun prosecutor could try and "paint" you are irresponsibly disconnecting a "safety device" making the argument that somehow you are a menace and a cowboy. I agree with you the mag disconnect is a very poor feature left over from the French army acceptance protocals they placed on FN for adoption of the "Grand puissance" High power which as we know they did NOT adopt.

    • @richardkluesek4301
      @richardkluesek4301 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Perhaps the thought process of the French was that handguns be issued to Officers and NCOs who would contemplatively remove magazines to render weapons cocked and round chambered "safe" because the thumb side safety lever is so ergonomically awkward to engage.

  • @FoulPet
    @FoulPet 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Only role that matters is self defense. I vote no since a loose mag makes the gun useless.

  • @clubprojects6923
    @clubprojects6923 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    So you are planning on losing your weapon. Learn to defend it.

  • @barascr1
    @barascr1 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think gun manufacturer's should equip the magazine disconnect safety as an standard feature, but I think it should be user removable if one so desires, also it should be easy to do.

    • @Billbobaker
      @Billbobaker 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      And it usually is a very easy mod to remove the Mag disconnect...
      My thought on them is that it is a false safety..
      Never trust anything but a chamber check.
      Safety really is in your head.

    • @FoulPet
      @FoulPet 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I think it should be standard without it and if you want it you can put it in.

  • @cayman9873
    @cayman9873 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I respect other opinions.. but since I carry glocks, 1911s , kahr , s&w shields, sigs, and hks.... I want my guns to all work the same. I also ordered my shields without a safety added... so I dont think it would make any difference in court... did you didable a safety ?? no, I made all my guns work the same exact way as a police glock works...
    I have no small kids anymore.. but imagine a kid that knows very little about guns... should not have access.. but gets his hands on a pistol... the mag is out... no trigger pull ... function... so the kid picks up an empty magazine to be careful and puts it in the gun...BANG
    That is just as much a possible outcome...
    I had a friend with a 40 cal smith as his woods and camping gun... carried the gun with ammo loaded and magazine inserted.. also carried a box of 25 rounds of defense ammo in his backpack.. he got to the middle of nowhere and a friend commented that his gun in a waist holster was empty , w no magazine.. so now he had nothing and had not carried a spare magazine.. just the ammo... so he was not comfortable the rest of the trip.. dont know if he added a spare magazine or changed guns , or removed the feature...

    • @BTCAsia
      @BTCAsia 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      porsche911 no, no, no...we’re told mag issues never occur with semi-autos. Forget the malfunction drills, work on your gun wrestling skills so you can find that mag release no matter where it is.

  • @BTCAsia
    @BTCAsia 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    First, the requirements for soldiers, police, and civilians are very different. As part of their job, police have to frequently come into close contact with potentially violent people. Civilians are strongly advised to always keep their distance from a threat.
    Second, I’ve heard several knowledgeable firearms authorities (like Mossad Ayoob who changed his mind to favor the magazine disconnect) say they heard LEOs speak of other LEOs who survived encounters because in a life and death struggle, as they were losing control of their gun, they still had the presence of mind and ability to press the mag release. Interestingly, I’ve never heard or read of a first hand account - it’s always unnamed and third hand. While I’m sure it has happened to LEOs, I suspect it is incredibly rare. As pointed out elsewhere, we can’t hear the counter argument from those killed because the device prevented them from using their gun. For that matter, how many lost the struggle for their gun because they were focused on hitting the mag release and failed?
    Third, you gave one scenario - a mag reload - where the device poses a hazard. However, what are we taught in malfunction drills for type I and II malfunctions? Tap, rack, correct? Why tap? Because the most common cause of malfunctions in an automatic pistol is failure to seat the magazine. Even in a type III malfunction, we’re taught strip, rack x3, insert, tap, rack - again, a major cause of malfunctions are mags. In fact, we all know bad mags can make a $4k Wilson Combat 1911 unreliable - which is why most serious 1911 users buy WC mags at $50 each.
    I think there are far more scenarios where the disconnect poses a hazard, especially when things go bump in the night, your heart is racing, you just woke up, and you can’t see. I don’t know about you, but on rare occasions I’ve accidentally hit a mag release. I was also taught to do a blind check on a mag, and I’ve even accidentally dropped a mag before. Maybe perfect people don’t ever have those things happen, even on the worst day of their life. I do.
    I don’t think the competing scenarios are a mag change versus grappling for your gun. The competing scenarios are any mag related issues versus grappling for your gun while still being able to hit the mag release. The odds a civilian will be in a defensive handgun situation is extremely slim. The odds they’ll have a mag issue or end up grappling for their gun are much slimmer. The odds they’ll need a round in the chamber or successfully hit the mag release while wrestling for their gun are incredibly slim.
    In the end, for me, I see it as a hazard device. Even with zero effect on the trigger, I don’t want some engineer, lawyer, or executive deciding the most likely scenario I might encounter. Others, especially in law enforcement, can come to the opposite conclusion which is just as valid for them.
    I appreciate your not calling it a safety. It isn’t one. Objectively, it is a disabling mechanism. Calling it a safety only increases the likelihood some bottom feeder lawyer will try to use the totally unrelated device for leverage because they can’t make their case honestly. Given the vast majority of handguns don’t have a disconnect and it can’t conceivably be relevant to a defensive shooting, I seriously doubt it would matter. Again, we’re talking about an extremely rare event of rare events.

  • @rorygibbons3310
    @rorygibbons3310 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    it was a solution to a non existent problem, remove it, you should always be able to fire your pistol magazine in or out, I have.

  • @jimmark506
    @jimmark506 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    you be trippin dude ...

  • @TheGnewb
    @TheGnewb 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Going to disagree with the 'role' that the weapon is to be used in. If soldiers and police have carried this system and generally survived, it functions. If civilians have generally used this system on range, in home, at baseball games, and generally survived, it also works.
    If not being shot or not shooting an unintended thing is a goal, it seems to work. I agree, it is a step more than the previous design. I can live with that. We all can.

    • @imthatguy1878
      @imthatguy1878 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Nothing worse than having to constantly pop a mag in to drop a hammer, I'll stick with removing that unneeded added part

  • @44hawk28
    @44hawk28 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    And if magazine safeties were more prominent you might be hearing stories of how the firearm not being able to go off in the middle of a MAG change head killed several officers. In those cases where officers were able to hit their magazine release they were allowed to relinquish that primary firearm to the assailant and acquire their backup firearm. So there are reasons one way or the other, it depends on how you as an individual wish to carry your firearm. I personally do not care for them, because you're specifically interrupting a design feature of the firearm when a magazine safety has been installed. Whether by The Factory or not. The primary function of a firearm is to ignite a primer, which ignites the powder, which forces a projectile down the boar Vaya means of thermochemical expansion.

    • @BTCAsia
      @BTCAsia 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      44 Hawk I guess those most worried about grappling for their gun must practice being on the ground, wrestling vigorously, while maintaining the ability to find and push the mag release. Of course, since their automatics never have mag issues, I suppose they can practice mag release wrestling instead of malfunction drills.

  • @mrfuriouser
    @mrfuriouser ปีที่แล้ว

    Magazine disconnects are the devil. There's your answer.

  • @sgoell75
    @sgoell75 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I took out the magazine disconnect so I am able to shoot even if last round in gun! My gun my choice to save my life government doesn't give a flip about if I lived or died!

  • @Nostradamus_Order33
    @Nostradamus_Order33 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Almost all LE use Glocks. Enough said

    • @bub-gy2bq
      @bub-gy2bq ปีที่แล้ว

      What a brilliant comment!

  • @deathlarsen7502
    @deathlarsen7502 ปีที่แล้ว

    Revolvers don't have magazine disconnects