To me with all I've learned from all your videos is the man that designed this gun was from one hundred years from the future and we are just now getting meatelargie and engineering capable of understanding this man's genius
Get their spring kit. It will come with a few recoil spring options, plus a printed piece of cardboard that you can lay your spring on to compare compression wear. Of course they are trying to sell you springs, but unless you have a new one for comparison, you don’t know how worn yours is.
Hey you sent me an email just a few days before about all of this! Thanks for the info. I actually shot my Hi Power Standard and the springs are super tough as my cartridge was only flying 6 feet away. However, I'm going to get my hands on an 18.5 lb spring and that buffer tube with the spring so I can make it last centuries and fire +p. I recommend everyone else do that actually.
@@HL-ll4zz be careful. If your spring is too heavy it can induce malfunctions due to the load your firing not being powerful enough to cycle the action.
@@bassault Then that makes it sound like the factory springs would be the safest bet then seeing as they should be up to spec right? Or was it a desighn oversight? Cuz i find that hard to believe but who knows.
As a former owner of a BHP and being intimately acquainted with their military usage (I also wanted to own an FN A1 or FAL) no-one I know has ever had the kinds of problems seen here. But then again I'm British and we don't tend to use +P rounds. After all, how much more dead do you need someone to be? (And yes, I did have to hand my guns in and they did get crushed!) [Still sore about that]
People make use of +P rated hollow points here primarily to allow for greater expansion/mushrooming of those rounds and reduce the danger overpenetration. 9mm Luger FMJ has a reputation for sometimes over-penetration and hitting unintended targets. So the idea is not just about making the round more powerful or more akin to the old school .45ACP that American military sidearms used until 1985, it's also about safety. Sorry to hear about the fate of your weapons. We won't comply with such a demand here, if Congress passes a law to that effect then they can come and try to take them themselves if they dare.
The better solution to avoid spring weakening/setting is to design it so that the slide stays locked for a longer distance. This of course is a new design entirely but it would avoid these issues. As is the design depends too much on blowback characteristics with weaker springs.
You should replace all springs in all fire arms after 5000 or so rounds or 5 or so years depending on your use.. Cost isinsignificant compared to replacing the broken part or potentially destroying it or worse. I got guns that have been sitting for years not being shot. Always good to give them a fresh set of springs either way.
I have a relatively new Tisas BR9 that has not been fired more than 50 times. Can I measure the spring length to make sure it is within spec? If so how long is that measurement? I see you recommend every 5 years. Does this still apply to pistols that have not been fired and are safe queens? Been a fan for a long time. Glad you are there for us.
Thank you Larry. Our recommendation of 5,000 rounds or 5 years, is our "best practices" recommendation. In 2018, we tested a Tisas BR9 through 6,000 rounds and then up to 8,200 rounds with BHSpringSolutions' Optimized Hi-Power springs installed. At 6,000 rounds all springs were within 95% of their original strength with one exception, the firing pin spring, which was 89% of original strength after 6,000 rounds and still a much stronger spring than Tisas' OEM Firing Pin Spring.... In 6,000 rounds, the BHSpringSolutions' Recoil Spring lost less than 3% of original strength and our Extractor Spring had no measurable loss of strength. So, all those same springs kept going through 8,200 rounds. Now....here's the rest of the story: The springs I mentioned, as tested, were installed in the Tisas HP and testing commenced. I would not expect the results we had after 6,000 rounds to be that great if we were using springs that had already been installed for 5 years.......installed, exerting energy trying to get themselves back to their original relaxed length prior to the test. This would not be apples to apples....the previously uninstalled springs naturally have more remaining useful life, they've not been already working for 5 years..... Thanks again for the question!
That looks to me like somebody cut the spring down in an attempt to make the slide easier to pull. I encountered this on a friend's 1911, he cut the spring to try to make the slide easier, not realizing that the hammer spring is really what you're fighting against.
The distance of the ejection is determined by the slide velocity. If the slide is too fast, the slide-to-frame collision would be harder than it should and this reduces the longevity of the system in general.
Our position as a company with respect to the Hi-Power is 5 Years or 5,000 rounds, whichever comes first. Does this constitute changing out our springs before it is necessary to change out our springs? Yes. Does this recommended change out interval maintain "Optimal"? Yes!....which is the point of the recommendation. If a Hi-Power hasn't had new springs in the past 15 years, it is in the "danger zone" for beginning to abuse itself when fired. There are Hi-Power springs sold by our competitors that have been beyond their useful life within 2 years / 2,000 rounds in our testing - so a factor in the answer to your question is "who's springs are we talking about?" In my personal Hi-Power, the OEM Extractor Spring completely failed at 18 years / 9,000 rounds and the Recoil Spring had surpassed it's useful life a few years before that and accuracy had become not-impressive. I installed new springs and it was suddenly again a tack-driver.
How does the mentioned 17lb spring compare to the stock (factioyr) spring in my 1971 'T' model 9mm Belgium made weapon? What is the lb rating on my spring which is original?
Thanks Glenn. The OEM HP Recoil Spring is a 17 lb recoil spring when new. If it's been in there since 1971, it's not that now nor has it been for a long time. And it's the front end resistance that goes away appreciably because as springs wear themselves out, it's that relaxed dimensional length that decreases. The recoil spring is compressed, when installed, and it exerts continuous energy trying to get itself back to it's relaxed length - nothing exerts energy forever. Over time, the spring's strength degrades - and the implication of this in the Hi-Power and the Recoil Spring specifically, is degradation of the front end resistance on the slide - which is the only resistance that matters when the slide starts to recoil and slams the barrel's cam lug into the locking lug cam. The other thing to bear in mind is that the Hammer has a spring behind it which is part of what controls the slide's rearward velocity - the Main Spring - if this one's never been changed, it's lost a great deal of it's resistance / push on the hammer. Feel free to reach out to us at 1-877-423-BHSS(2477).
I have a very technical question to ask you. Firearm you're handling does not appear to be shot much at all even though it is 7 years old. Not only have you never explained in any video I have seen the first yield point that any spring goes to when it is but under tension. That is not a concerning factor. All Springs when put under any kind of tension will not return to their original length, and that can be mitigated by different spring manufacturing and tempering techniques. It can also be exasperated by improper tempering techniques. I don't know of a Springmaid today, and that includes the IMI Springs that are made differently than the older style music wire coil Springs that do not shorten once they're put into a state of tension. I will disagree with you that if you leave at that state of tension that the spring continues to degrade. The only thing that causes Springs to degrade is over stressing them, and operating them at rates higher than they are designed to function at. And that is not even bringing in the idea that certain types of corrosion have an effect on Spring life. I would Hazard a guess that the spring that presses against the detent ball in the spring guide on the standard Browning hi-power is actually either suffering some sort of corrosion or it's getting plugged with enough carbon-dated eventually causes the spring to bind up rather than the spring actually failing. It's failing due to other issues. I like your solution to that. I also like your enhanced Barrel I would like to change out the Barrel in my Argentine military high-power but it shoots so damn good I don't know that I want to. However my particular gun has been hard chromed. So if a crack develops it will be easy to see. So I may just order a barrel and see how well it shoots with one of your one piece barrels. Thank you for the video everything about this has been extremely Illuminating. I have tinkered and played with Firearms since I started teaching people to shoot when I was 14 years old and that has been in excess of 50 years now. One of my closest Associates happens to be a master gunsmith in the state of Michigan and he has taught me quite a few things, as well as in all of the engagements that he and I have had I have only ever seen something that he missed on two occasions. He's really hard to fool. My secondary question is why the cam that is cut into the barrel match the crossbar better. You think that if the crossbar has a rounded nose that it would contact as close to that as possible so that you're spreading the force across that cam rather than putting all of the forced into a singular spot on that cam. I'm not sure why it has a flat face and a rounded nose on the crossbar. I would think that a greater contact patch might mitigate the incidence of impact.
Sooooo. is this a factory issue or a customization issue? My questionis, is there a way to avoid this lol cuz i love my p35 girsan hp clone. And i hope this doesnt happen to mine.
Just normal recoil spring wear. They are wearable items that need periodic replacement. I have that same yellow B&H ziplock package that’s on his bench. It’s a spring assortment kit that gives you a few options. Best part is, when you unfold the cardboard, it has a “lay it on top” diagram for proper spring lengths to check for compression weakness.
Canadian army is still using Brownings from 1942-1945. These guns get poorly maintained and are all shot out from 1000's upon 1000's of rounds . None of these pistols have new special springs and they still work (albeight not well due to age), in fact they deploy to Afghanistan.
This video is garbage. The Browning action does not need a spring to safely fire. I also don't believe there is anything wrong with the OEM spring. Springs will take a set over time, its normal and not necessarily a problem. This guy is just trying to sell his product.
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Glad I found this company. Outstanding education/knowledge I get from watching these videos.
To me with all I've learned from all your videos is the man that designed this gun was from one hundred years from the future and we are just now getting meatelargie and engineering capable of understanding this man's genius
This was incredibly educational and answered exactly what I was looking for, thank you for the work that you guys do!
Get their spring kit. It will come with a few recoil spring options, plus a printed piece of cardboard that you can lay your spring on to compare compression wear. Of course they are trying to sell you springs, but unless you have a new one for comparison, you don’t know how worn yours is.
Hey you sent me an email just a few days before about all of this! Thanks for the info. I actually shot my Hi Power Standard and the springs are super tough as my cartridge was only flying 6 feet away. However, I'm going to get my hands on an 18.5 lb spring and that buffer tube with the spring so I can make it last centuries and fire +p. I recommend everyone else do that actually.
Oh i see...the stronger the recoil spring the less the distance the case flies out. The weaker the spring the more damage to the pistol. Thank you!
@@HL-ll4zz be careful. If your spring is too heavy it can induce malfunctions due to the load your firing not being powerful enough to cycle the action.
@@HL-ll4zz geri tepme yayı Güçlü ise boş kovanlar yakına yay etkisi kaybederse ise kovanlar uzağamı gider ben böyle anladım bu doğrumu
@@bassault Then that makes it sound like the factory springs would be the safest bet then seeing as they should be up to spec right?
Or was it a desighn oversight? Cuz i find that hard to believe but who knows.
Amazing that you have isolated such a widespread issue lack of proper maintenance. Just got a mint FEG p9r and I want to keep it nice.
Good stuff Mark ...Thanks
As a former owner of a BHP and being intimately acquainted with their military usage (I also wanted to own an FN A1 or FAL) no-one I know has ever had the kinds of problems seen here. But then again I'm British and we don't tend to use +P rounds. After all, how much more dead do you need someone to be? (And yes, I did have to hand my guns in and they did get crushed!) [Still sore about that]
People make use of +P rated hollow points here primarily to allow for greater expansion/mushrooming of those rounds and reduce the danger overpenetration. 9mm Luger FMJ has a reputation for sometimes over-penetration and hitting unintended targets. So the idea is not just about making the round more powerful or more akin to the old school .45ACP that American military sidearms used until 1985, it's also about safety. Sorry to hear about the fate of your weapons. We won't comply with such a demand here, if Congress passes a law to that effect then they can come and try to take them themselves if they dare.
The better solution to avoid spring weakening/setting is to design it so that the slide stays locked for a longer distance. This of course is a new design entirely but it would avoid these issues. As is the design depends too much on blowback characteristics with weaker springs.
..the FM FAL has a similar locking system...in fact the locking lug itself determines the head space on those rifles...
Another great video Mark. Thank you!
You should replace all springs in all fire arms after 5000 or so rounds or 5 or so years depending on your use.. Cost isinsignificant compared to replacing the broken part or potentially destroying it or worse. I got guns that have been sitting for years not being shot. Always good to give them a fresh set of springs either way.
👍sehr schöne Präsentation 🤗🇱🇻
I have a relatively new Tisas BR9 that has not been fired more than 50 times. Can I measure the spring length to make sure it is within spec? If so how long is that measurement? I see you recommend every 5 years. Does this still apply to pistols that have not been fired and are safe queens? Been a fan for a long time. Glad you are there for us.
Thank you Larry. Our recommendation of 5,000 rounds or 5 years, is our "best practices" recommendation. In 2018, we tested a Tisas BR9 through 6,000 rounds and then up to 8,200 rounds with BHSpringSolutions' Optimized Hi-Power springs installed. At 6,000 rounds all springs were within 95% of their original strength with one exception, the firing pin spring, which was 89% of original strength after 6,000 rounds and still a much stronger spring than Tisas' OEM Firing Pin Spring.... In 6,000 rounds, the BHSpringSolutions' Recoil Spring lost less than 3% of original strength and our Extractor Spring had no measurable loss of strength. So, all those same springs kept going through 8,200 rounds.
Now....here's the rest of the story:
The springs I mentioned, as tested, were installed in the Tisas HP and testing commenced. I would not expect the results we had after 6,000 rounds to be that great if we were using springs that had already been installed for 5 years.......installed, exerting energy trying to get themselves back to their original relaxed length prior to the test. This would not be apples to apples....the previously uninstalled springs naturally have more remaining useful life, they've not been already working for 5 years.....
Thanks again for the question!
The original spring looks like its been cut at both ends.
I agree, cut of broken.
Interesting video, learning more than in a few minutes than expected.
Can you provide the length of the worn spring and the new one? It will to determine when it needs to be replaced. Thanks
Is it just me or does the spring look clipped ?
That looks to me like somebody cut the spring down in an attempt to make the slide easier to pull. I encountered this on a friend's 1911, he cut the spring to try to make the slide easier, not realizing that the hammer spring is really what you're fighting against.
What is the length of the factory recoil spring.
Sir I have a Browning bat i have no extra magazine... because here in philippines very hard to find.
I've seen one in Imperial Gun store Krame-E Arcade at the front of Camp Crame in Quezon City. Price was around 3k pesos. Hope this helps.
Do you have drawings of the Browning barrel with the dimensions? can you send me
So its bad if my casings are flying out 12 feet???
The distance of the ejection is determined by the slide velocity. If the slide is too fast, the slide-to-frame collision would be harder than it should and this reduces the longevity of the system in general.
What are the purpose of the three holes on the slide?
Two holes on the side and one hole on top?
The hole on top has a roll pin in it to anchor the extractor. The two holes on the side have a roll pin to anchor the sear lever.
When do you recommend changing the springs? Is it just based on recoil spring length or do you take age and rounds fired into account?
Our position as a company with respect to the Hi-Power is 5 Years or 5,000 rounds, whichever comes first. Does this constitute changing out our springs before it is necessary to change out our springs? Yes. Does this recommended change out interval maintain "Optimal"? Yes!....which is the point of the recommendation. If a Hi-Power hasn't had new springs in the past 15 years, it is in the "danger zone" for beginning to abuse itself when fired. There are Hi-Power springs sold by our competitors that have been beyond their useful life within 2 years / 2,000 rounds in our testing - so a factor in the answer to your question is "who's springs are we talking about?" In my personal Hi-Power, the OEM Extractor Spring completely failed at 18 years / 9,000 rounds and the Recoil Spring had surpassed it's useful life a few years before that and accuracy had become not-impressive. I installed new springs and it was suddenly again a tack-driver.
..two.piece barrel.. even dinevthat wY since the mid 40s IIRC
How does the mentioned 17lb spring compare to the stock (factioyr) spring in my 1971 'T' model 9mm Belgium made weapon? What is the lb rating on my spring which is original?
Thanks Glenn. The OEM HP Recoil Spring is a 17 lb recoil spring when new. If it's been in there since 1971, it's not that now nor has it been for a long time. And it's the front end resistance that goes away appreciably because as springs wear themselves out, it's that relaxed dimensional length that decreases. The recoil spring is compressed, when installed, and it exerts continuous energy trying to get itself back to it's relaxed length - nothing exerts energy forever. Over time, the spring's strength degrades - and the implication of this in the Hi-Power and the Recoil Spring specifically, is degradation of the front end resistance on the slide - which is the only resistance that matters when the slide starts to recoil and slams the barrel's cam lug into the locking lug cam. The other thing to bear in mind is that the Hammer has a spring behind it which is part of what controls the slide's rearward velocity - the Main Spring - if this one's never been changed, it's lost a great deal of it's resistance / push on the hammer. Feel free to reach out to us at 1-877-423-BHSS(2477).
I have a very technical question to ask you. Firearm you're handling does not appear to be shot much at all even though it is 7 years old. Not only have you never explained in any video I have seen the first yield point that any spring goes to when it is but under tension. That is not a concerning factor. All Springs when put under any kind of tension will not return to their original length, and that can be mitigated by different spring manufacturing and tempering techniques. It can also be exasperated by improper tempering techniques. I don't know of a Springmaid today, and that includes the IMI Springs that are made differently than the older style music wire coil Springs that do not shorten once they're put into a state of tension. I will disagree with you that if you leave at that state of tension that the spring continues to degrade. The only thing that causes Springs to degrade is over stressing them, and operating them at rates higher than they are designed to function at. And that is not even bringing in the idea that certain types of corrosion have an effect on Spring life. I would Hazard a guess that the spring that presses against the detent ball in the spring guide on the standard Browning hi-power is actually either suffering some sort of corrosion or it's getting plugged with enough carbon-dated eventually causes the spring to bind up rather than the spring actually failing. It's failing due to other issues. I like your solution to that. I also like your enhanced Barrel I would like to change out the Barrel in my Argentine military high-power but it shoots so damn good I don't know that I want to. However my particular gun has been hard chromed. So if a crack develops it will be easy to see. So I may just order a barrel and see how well it shoots with one of your one piece barrels. Thank you for the video everything about this has been extremely Illuminating. I have tinkered and played with Firearms since I started teaching people to shoot when I was 14 years old and that has been in excess of 50 years now. One of my closest Associates happens to be a master gunsmith in the state of Michigan and he has taught me quite a few things, as well as in all of the engagements that he and I have had I have only ever seen something that he missed on two occasions. He's really hard to fool.
My secondary question is why the cam that is cut into the barrel match the crossbar better. You think that if the crossbar has a rounded nose that it would contact as close to that as possible so that you're spreading the force across that cam rather than putting all of the forced into a singular spot on that cam. I'm not sure why it has a flat face and a rounded nose on the crossbar. I would think that a greater contact patch might mitigate the incidence of impact.
These springs are in compression not tension.
For those that want to get the quick answer, springs. Worn out springs.
Sooooo. is this a factory issue or a customization issue?
My questionis, is there a way to avoid this lol cuz i love my p35 girsan hp clone. And i hope this doesnt happen to mine.
Don't fire super hot loads when it has a worn out recoil spring
@Mr. Gible gotcha, thanks lol
Just normal recoil spring wear. They are wearable items that need periodic replacement. I have that same yellow B&H ziplock package that’s on his bench. It’s a spring assortment kit that gives you a few options. Best part is, when you unfold the cardboard, it has a “lay it on top” diagram for proper spring lengths to check for compression weakness.
Short spring is either cut or a bit broke off. Wild end of the coil is suspect.
Excellent video.
this is a sales pitch.
I agree!
Correct, I wish I could find someone on TH-cam who made browning hi power videos
Canadian army is still using Brownings from 1942-1945. These guns get poorly maintained and are all shot out from 1000's upon 1000's of rounds . None of these pistols have new special springs and they still work (albeight not well due to age), in fact they deploy to Afghanistan.
This video is garbage. The Browning action does not need a spring to safely fire. I also don't believe there is anything wrong with the OEM spring. Springs will take a set over time, its normal and not necessarily a problem. This guy is just trying to sell his product.
What I see on those pictures is examples of poorly made clones of the Hi-Power. I wouldn't shoot some of those guns when they were brand new.
Get to the point. Rambling drove me crazy.