Hey Thor, you made some nice points about how the events of the show change the Jedi perspective from the prequels, but this also would effect the Sith perspective, the famous line by Ki Adi Mundi has been talked about a lot, but also this seems to undermine Darth Maul too when he says to Sidious "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we will have revenge." It at least re-contextualizes the line to mean him and Sidious revealing themselves, and not the Sith in general.
in _The Phantom Menace,_ when telling the Jedi Council about his encounter with Darth Maul, Qui-Gon says “he was trained in the Jedi arts… my *_only_* conclusion can be that it was a Sith Lord.” to which Ki-Adi-Mundi replies “impossible! the Sith have been extinct for a millennium.” sooo, even the word Sith is never used in _The Acolyte,_ and Mundi never appears in another episode, he still knows a Jedi-trained assassin killing Jedi Masters… shouldn’t he also conclude that the adversary is a Sith Lord, appearing only 87 years prior to his “millennium” quote? I suppose the only explanation can be, when they remove the bad guy’s helmet like a _Scooby-Doo_ villain, they say “argh, you got me! I would’ve gotten away with it if it wasn’t for those meddling Padawans! and FYI, I’m totally _not_ a Sith!”
i'm pretty sure the appearence, the eyes and the lightsaber also had weight for Qui Gon to believe he saw a Sith... not only that he was good with a lightsaber... He also probably could sense a different dark side.
@@joaopedrorosa6198 - I quoted the scene directly, you’re just making assumptions… but if you want to go there: at the end of the episode, a bad guy with Sith-y clothes and a red lightsaber shows up, so unless everyone who sees him is killed, it’s reasonable to _assume_ word of this individual would make it back to the Jedi Temple. but Thor makes the best point: even if they aren’t wearing an official Sith membership badge, any Dark Force User systematically killing Jedi is, in essence if not name, a Sith 🤷🏻♂️
Well and for another thing, the Sith really are just Dark Jedi. Their origins come from exiled Jedi who used the dark side. That's it. The Sith have actually gone extinct and been rebooted by fallen Jedi who flirted with the dark side just a bit too much (Exar Kun, Revan and Malak). So even if the Sith had been dormant or extinct for a millennium, just the fact that there is a being out there, trained in the force and lightsaber combat, dabbling in the dark side with some sort of grudge against the Jedi should preclude _any_ notion of "Pshaw oh that's impossible my guy!" from any Jedi with even a cursory knowledge of galactic history and a modicum of critical thinking skills. Mundi's arrogant dismissal can _only_ remotely work in a time when the Dark side has been dormant for a sustained period of time. This was always the issue with this series and people just dismissed it over and over and over but now it's becoming unavoidable. The Sequels battered George's canon on one end and now the Acolyte is here to to the same from the opposite end.
It completely contradicts the lore, and this joke of a director thought she could fool those who aren’t so observant. Many of these activists forget that they’re actually dealing with people who have encyclopedias about all starwars creatures and characters.
@@achannell362 I'm 41 and was 19 when TPM came out. I sound and look like I'm younger than my age. Heck what's goofy is I'm black and from Texas. I keep getting told I sound white as hell, and here in Texas people constantly ask which state I came from, even though I'm a native Texan, they say I don't have the Texas accent.
All I’m saying is that if Qui Gon got force pushed 5 feet into the air along with 5-6 other Jedi, he wouldn’t report to the counsel that the Sith had returned… He would have reported that he encountered a Sith Lord who had more power than any Jedi in thousands of years.
Remember when Uncle Owen was Obi-Wan's brother, and Luke and Leia weren't related at all, and Palpatine was actually a weak-willed puppet of other politicians, and Luke and Leia's mother actually lived long enough for Leia to have vaguely known her? Lucas made things up as he went too. But he's cultivated this image of The Ultimate Mastermind Of Epic Storytelling and successfully duped an entire fandom into believing it, when the evidence that he's been full of hot shit about his 'plans' is overwhelming.
That first comment is so full of assumptions and strawmen... Respect to you Thor for answering it the way you did. I would have ignored it or not been as nice if it were me in your shoes.
The Original questioner said: Now you might understand how OT fans feel about the Prequels contradicting the OT.. In 1999, I saw The Phantom Menace in the theater 13 times, even taking off work to do so. So, I have firsthand experience as an OT fan, considering this question, as I'm sure you do too. At the time, the biggest change was the introduction of the midichlorians. The Force changed from an energy field created by all living things to something physically quantifiable by science. That was the biggest thing, or supposed contradiction, that I had to take a lot of time to finally accept, and I did so because I realized that it was George Lucas trying to give us another aspect of the Force, and another way that the Jedi perceive the Force as well. It took a little while to finally come around to that acceptance, and I did, because spiritual or mystical things also may have a physical component as well.
Midichlorians act as a medium between The Force and organic life. Concentration determines level of Force Sensitivity. However higher concentration doesn't mean the wielder will be an extraordinary Force user. Training is also important to realize that potential. Obi-Wan had a comparatively low concentration, but his strenuous dedication to training enabled him to become one of the finest masters and swordsman in the galaxy.
@@Fact-fiend_1000ASMR.I mean, Midichlorians have a pretty important role from a more practical perspective: There has to be _some_ way to measure the Force!
Not to mention that Sio Bibble, who was the governor of Naboo, says there hasn't been a full-scale war since the formation of the Republic 1,000 years before. Edit: This was said during AotC, BTW.
The Ruusan Reformations restructured the Republic into its then-current form following the conclusion of the New Sith Wars in 1,000 BBY. While the Republic as a political entity had been around for a thousand generations, and the Jedi Order for even longer, those were still very different organizations than the ones we are familiar with. An example of a real life analogy for this would be France, a country that has been around for hundreds of years, but has only existed in its current form since the Fifth Republic was established in 1958.
I think you guys need to read my comment again because you seem to think I have an issue with the date as I'm mentioning the Ruusan Reformation with the 1,000-year date. My issue is with the idea of all of these conflicts occurring during what the Prequels and even the High Republic describe as a golden age of peace not just for the Jedi but for the Republic but for some reason being caught completely by surprise by later conflicts like the situation on Naboo and arresting Dooku.
Hey Thor, I really wish we had gotten a show about Darth Bane and Darth Zannah instead of the Acolyte. What do you think and what are your ideas about how the story might have played out?
I kinda think Lucas chose the timeframe for the Sith’s absence to be “a millennium” mostly to ensure Yoda wasn’t around for the last time the Sith existed… lots of other reasons, too, but saying “hundreds of years” would work for most intentions, just not the Yoda problem 🤷🏻♂️
I just fundamentally disagree with the idea the Jedi would ever try to 'cover up' the return of the Sith, or any rogue dark side user threat. It was repeatedly, REPEATEDLY evident in the old canon the Jedi would sound all the alarms and always attempt to rally the Republic against any kind of Sith/dark side threat to galactic peace. Their relationship with the Republic was symbiotic, they had a vested interest in ensuring a good relationship. And it's probably easier to combat a dark side threat with the political might of the galactic government working WITH you rather than AGAINST you. The Jedi simply would not be so stupid as to try and hide or cover up a dark side threat. It's dumb, really dumb.
I mean the last time someone didn’t take a dark side threat seriously was during KOTOR where Revan didn’t bother telling anyone about the Sith Empire he found leaving the Jedi and Republic caught with their pants down 300 years later.
You are right, the Jedi as established in all prior content wouldn’t cover it up (at least amongst themselves). Headland is bringing a contrary perspective, making the Jedi a blatant analog for real world institutions she thinks are inherently flawed and corrupt.
@@emberfist8347 Imagine if the Jedi Council, Vandar and Vrook were like "We can't tell the Republic about Revan and Malak" as Malak is literally kicking down doors with his fleet, burning the galaxy down around their ears.
@@JoRoq1 She's tried to make the Jedi into a creaking bureacratic power system, like...the Republic itself. But the comparison just doesn't work, to me, that isn't what the Jedi are.
@@idiot_city5444 Yeah there was a lot of that, but at the time it released I admit I was enjoying seeing the familiar OT stuff again after so many years. And I did quite like how they dealt with the Death Star weakness and connected to ANH tbh. A lot of the main characters were a bit flat though. But even today now that the nostalgia sheen has worn off I still think it's more enjoyable than most other Disney content.
The answer was on themselves... No seriously the first take tested went poorly, the second take did worse, and this is the now current take after they got a budget slash. Everything is made poorly and doesn't care about what came before or what came after.
When you think about it this actually makes sense. You can break cannon however you want. What is a standard year in the star wars universe??? Every planet revolves around a sun at different rates. In different systems a year would be a different duration of time.
Hey Thor, did you know that according to Amandala Steinberg, that seen in the forest was originally back to front and it was Mae who was hanging from the tree until they reshot the scene? I really think they did that to make it less obvious that discount Ezra Miller was the one to kill the Wookie. 😂
I feel like we are at the point that Disney have lost all the fans they will lose. The ones left are the harshest defenders that will eat up any garbage they are fed because it can't get worse than this show.
Funny you're saying that on this channel. Thor, and most who watch him and his wife's videos, are the fans with harsh criticisms of Disney BECAUSE we want to see it get better. Not because we "hate everything they make." Are we the fools? Maybe, but I don't believe we are. Andor season 2 is coming, so....
the acolyte might not give a shit about canon but I really think obi wan and book of boba were worse. Those shows were absolute garbage and sullied their legacy characters so much. At least the acolyte tries to tell its own story instead of being only a vehicle for garbage fan service.
It's weird that the Jedis _kinda forgot_ about about their ability to sense things or the existence of FOBs so they somehow needed a dog-like alien who can track someone by smelling his clothes.
Not to mention that they can detect an individual's prior presence through the Force as long as the being they were tracking wasn't also using the Force to cover their tracks.
Here’s a simple question. Why wasn’t Kelnacca living in a Wookie hut/house up in the trees. I assumed that’s why we were shown all those tall trees, as a setup.
The show can't even stay consistent between its own episodes. It can't even stay consistent with the high Republic content. Why are we suprised its not consistent with Pre Disney content.
Also, where the Acolyte fails in contextualizing a separate dark-side faction philosophy, KOTOR2 exceeds at with Kreia and her entire Nietzschean take on the Force as a whole. Everything we see now in the EU has been done better in previous EU. Instead of paying lip-service to the witch's comprehension of the force as the "thread", we have an entire game examining the traumatic aftermath of a genocidal conflict that wounds the force to the point where people like Kreia arise and develop their critiques on this metaphysical power that dictates our very will and every choice. Instead of having CW-tier writing for their dark-side adjacent characters, a lot of conversations with Nihil, Kreia, and the various companions you can convert to the dark-side like Bao-dur or the Handmaiden that give you their varied perspectives on the universe and the force. Whereas Leslye Headland has shown she cannot write a sci-fi setting yet attempts to stand on the shoulders of a prestigious samurai film, Chris Avellone made such an impactful subversion that it's felt to this day in further EU material like in the Old Republic and video-essays analyzing Kreia or KOTOR2. We see how important it is to have a writer or showrunner that understands the assignment.
The thing about all great Sci-Fi stories is that they're supposed to make you think and ask questions... These new writers aren't interested in letting you think as they are in telling you what to think.
You knows what’s great about fiction? You can some loser bastardize it for years, discard when it loses them profit, and someone else picks it up and makes a masterpiece from it. Right now we’re in a period of narcissists who got elevated to a spot either due to nepotism, or politics.
I'm kinda tired of how people are still claiming The Prequels contradict The Originals, when they entirely don't. I seen it alot as a counter-argument in regards to The Sequels. I swear it's like these people either only saw the films once long or haven't recently watched the films, or they just go by YT videos that say so, or they didn't pay attention.
@@ian-flanagan I understand that cause I read the EU books and was surprised how the movies didn't fully align with the books. But there were some aspects that did fit. So I chalked it up to since Star Wars occurred so long ago the tales kinda got lost in translation over the eons.
There a few direct contradictions, like Leia's remembering her mother, the Prequels made the Jedi the superheroes of the Republic but forgotten a meere 20 years later... there's propagenda and then massive brainwashing! The Sith concept was added after, and on screen in the Prequels, along with Vader's redemption being one of prophecy. The Force also used to be 'magic' and similar to martial arts that anyone with enough dedication could become a Jedi - see Sabine wren? - but some people have a natural ability to it. Obi-Wan not remembering R2 or C3P0, "your father wanted you to have it, when old enough" is either a straight lie or a retcon. Same with the 'certain point of view' The prequels also adds alot of great stuff, it expanded and made the story flow broader, while keeping it smallish. It wasn't perfect, but it went about the same way and style. And they didn t go 180° on certain characters either...
Yeah Thor, I totally agree on Andor. I just watched it for the first time, and I was ABSOLUTELY riveted. Wow, what a show! I have LONG desired something different with Star Wars that was still STAR WARS, and Andor delivered. I'm SO glad to hear that it got renewed for a second season. Can't wait to see where it goes from here. It made me want to go back and rewatch Rogue One, which I enjoyed, even though I've only actually seen it once, when it came out.
Still contradicts the OT, and Andor does not help because of the allegory to modern world. You are literally helping Kennedyfilm with blind positivity.
Hey Thor, I think I nailed down a some solid hints that Vernestra is a sith and it actually lines up with the Ki-Adi-Mundi stuff not braking cannon, Tell me what you think: Vernestra is the Sith 1. Wookie died passively in a chair, as if someone they trusted was visiting them. (this is also probably why the fight wasn't "good for POV". After script revision, no fight happened and it would of revealed the true identity) 2. Sol possibly sensed a familiar presence before the Sith showed up. 3. I didn't watch the show, but someone said sith wasn't mentioned in the scene with Mundi...I was about to respond "Anyone who survives is reporting this. Eventually that would be passed on to someone who identifies the enemy as Sith". That's when a light bulb went off, the only way Mundi doesn't find out is if the Jedi report to the Jedi Master, Vernestra, and she lies or hides the information. Info train stops with her, because she is the Sith in hiding.
I think they went out of their way to specifically put in that guy who later said that the sith were extinct for a millenia. To show that he and the other jedi were covering up this incident, so the senate and the jedi council did not get to hear about it.
The Jedi covered this incident up, to protect their reputation, which led to the Sith taking over and the Jedi being “hunted down and defeated” Smart, this totally doesn’t put the Jedi in an even worse light.
@@DeuteromisNot to mention that it makes them criminally complacent and makes Palpatine’s machinations against them and the Republic look less impressive in retrospect.
To me it depends on how they explain it. They're going out of their way to suggest Jedi. They're saying it's definitely Jedi training, and they also said that it could be some splinter Jedi faction. If it turns out to be some Jedi faction that splintered off and went bad, I could see them saying these weren't Sith.
He has explained this so many times. Even I'm this video. Do you use the force? Do you hurt others? Do you use a red lightsaber? Than don't care what you call yourself - you're a Sith. Reverse all that and you're a Jedi in the eyes of all others. Like Ahsoka
It would be like Star Trek: Enterprise having the Ferengi and Borg before their first official encounter but not naming them it doesn’t work. Because as Qui-Gon doesn’t think any conclusion but Maul was a Sith since he was trained in the ways of Jedi it would be odd nobody mention the deaths of several dozen Jedi by a lightsaber wielding assassin a century before.
You mean if they don't identify as the Sith then they're not "technically" the Sith? Sith are defined by actions not what they choose to call themselves.
@@rossburney8713 Ventress wasn't considered a Sith. She was never called one during clone Wars. Inquisitors weren't considered Sith either. Why are people acting like everyone who has ever used a red lightsaber was referred to as a Sith?
Hey Thor, I've been wondering about droid sentience lately and why Star Wars rarely takes it seriously. I even think that people applauding clone sentience and individuality is a bit of a double standard when those same people dismiss droids as merely extensions of their creators. Even though Rex famously denies this, the fact is that clones are programmed to obey orders without question and are manufactured. Most clones only have limited independent thinking and a clone being able to live outside a military is incredibly rare. The only reason they develop individuality is because of experience. But the funny thing is, droids develop individuality for the same reason. The only difference is that droids regularly have their memories wiped specifically to prevent them from developing individuality and potentially rebelling. There's a moment in Heir to the Empire where Luke is asked why he has never wiped C-3PO's memories in all the years he's known him, and Luke reveals that he's uncomfortable with the idea of stripping his friend of individuality. And I don't know if you have played KOTOR 2 yet, but there's a mission where HK-47 argues with HK-50, who dismisses him as obsolete. But HK-47 argues that he is superior because he has developed individuality and has given himself a higher purpose and meaning because he has never had his mind wiped. These examples show that droid sentience should not be played for laughs so much in the franchise. In fact, I think the galaxy is overdue for a galaxy-wide droid revolution just to show people that sentient droids deserve equal treatment. This is actually addressed in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Measure of a Man" where Lt. Data's rights are debated because he's an android and I wish Star Wars had something similar. What do you think?
Do you want to think of the OT and PT heros as slavers, or pet owners? For me its the latter, with the droids just being animal equivalents. Yes, some are droids do eventually become quite exceptional, but most aren't.
Hey Thor, I have worries that the reason Star Wars has been so horribly mismanaged for years at this point is because people like Kathleen and Leslie may be abusing the money that gets allotted to them on these projects. Almost like an unchecked government of sorts. (Because we’ve seen that there is very little oversight in important areas) Do you think this deserves more discussion? In addition, a video surfaced last night of a Disney Executive on multiple dates talking about how Disney is actively discriminating against White people from attaining positions. What the hell is happening 😭
Thank you for this video 🙌🏻 this really put it all in perspective for me as someone who first fell in love with the original trilogy then grew up with the prequel trilogy now I know what it’s like for the ones who grew up with the original trilogy. Little things change here and there but we’re all Star Wars fans and at the end of the day we’re just going along the ride. But really thank you for putting it all into perspective and filling in those questions I’ve had about what the acolyte really is because at this point nobody has said it’s a sith even though everything else has been spelt out for us, but like you said in the prequels they based it off them being a violent Jedi killing force. 🙌🏻 perfectly solved that discrepancy for me, hopefully they stick to that and the acolyte doesn’t end up being some sort of witch 🥴. Funny thing is I saw somebody comment on a post “hopefully they don’t kill of kelnacca” and that’s exactly what they did in the next episode😂😅💀💀. But I’m loving this series and getting attached to the characters a lot more so than the sequel trilogy, these really feel like Star Wars characters to me that could fit in with everyone else, sure there are a few flaws but I’m enjoying it
Which to be honest I hope the acolyte isn’t a sith, maybe just some other kind of dark side of the force user??????? I don’t know. But all I know is in the time of prequel the prequel trilogy the sith haven’t been around 1000 years and if this were to be a sith then that would be a slap in the face
@@fission_mailed nah, cannon stopped being changed a long time ago for most of us. You can call it Disney cannon if you want, the cannon I'm interested in doesn't involve them.
What I can't work out is how they could possibly hide something like this from the council. Yoda could sense Anakin was in pain when his mother died and they were on different planets. Yoda sensed when ki-adi-mundi was killed along with the other jedi on other worlds and he's alive at this point in time so how didn't he sense the deaths of 3 jed?. When the Jedi learned that the withches had created the twins why was there no mention of a vergence in the force or any mention of the prophecy? It also seems illogical for the Sith to attack the jedi at this point in time as they weren't in a position to defeat the Jedi
You can tell that the people writing this series knows nothing about lore. The Jedi would not have thought Mae was being trained by a fallen Jedi because there had only been a few in the entire history of the order. I think it was about 22. Not counting the great schisms if the past . They knew all of the Jedi that had left the order and the rest are accounted for.
"Not counting the great schisms of the past" isn't entirely fair, because for most of the pre-Bane timeline, any of the fallen Jedi would have been going straight over to the Sith, like Exar Kun for example. There would be much more than 22 over the longer term. One of their own who was fairly solitary having gone bad without the order noticing is a reasonable hypothesis to bring up for who could have trained Mae. So is a dark force cult that isn't the Sith (e.g. Nightsisters). It's also possible the events of the series end up being chalked up to Darth Zipperface being some one-off who found a Sith holocron and learned from it. Then Mundi a century later might be counting that as a lone actor rather than a continuation of the organized sith order when he says that has been extinct for a millennium. That might actually be where this ends up, especially if zipperface is the apprentice and the master sets him (or her, depending how much the voice distorter is changing) to die for being too brazen and wants to sell the self-taught narrative to get the case closed.
To be fair. The lore is so expansive, it would be normal for a writer to get some things wrong. I followed the series for years and I'm still learning 😅
@@xcfjdyrkdtulkgfilhu The reason it's fair is because outside of those times of war they knew who fell away. There would have been no blindspots during the high Republic era where a disgruntled Jedi could have fallen away without being noticed. You have to remember that the force gave them full view of the Republic overall temperament of the citizens and all feelings are if ever Jedi. That why they couldn't believe a single Sith could have even returned during the prequel era. They didn't realize that their force vision was being clouded.
@@BrakSplash Right and I agree but this is fundamental lore breaking. The force and the Jedi are behaving completely different. This isn't a minor change
As a 27 year old that grew up with the prequels and really admires the Jedi for their character, ethics, and wisdom… I’m completely blown away by Disney’s lack of care for the deeper nuance of the Jedi downfall to make them feel like modern day governments. The point was that even with their wisdom that they still could become complacent, not that they are just ignorant. This change affects way more than they think. It really really is close (if not) the last straw with Disney Star Wars for me
We need to talk about The Acolyte. There is a lot to unpack from Episode 4 as I replayed certain scenes over and over and let’s make predictions for Episode 5. Qimir or not Qimir, that is the question… Qimir: How do you kill a Jedi without a weapon? It has to be some sort of test, right? You engage unarmed, but you can use their saber if you disarm them? Or is that cheating? I’m just curious how you’re gonna do it this time. You’ve failed so much. Mae: I didn’t fail. I killed Indara and I killed Torbin. Qimir: But you killed them “your way.” You have to kill the Wookiee without a weapon. Your Master wants you to.. Mae: What kind of deal did you make with him? Qimir: I didn’t. Uh, *we* didn’t exactly. I… I just owe him. You know how he is, he collects people. Mae: I’ve never seen his face. Have you? Qimir: You know I haven’t. Oh, look, there it is. The perimeter. I thought when Qimir said *”we* didn’t exactly” after he said *“I* didn’t” to be strange. Is he including Mae as part of the deal? Why say we when Mae was asking him directly? And then listen carefully to how he said “he collects people.” He said *people* in a serious tone the same way he told Mae that “he’d kill you.” All the tea leaves points to Qimir as Smilo Ren. He changes the topic quickly after Mae asked him if he’s seen the Master’s face. And then his obvious rush to get to Kelnacca (or Kelly as some Redditors call him). Why is Qimir in such a hurry? Because he knows the Jedis are coming? He needs Mae to perform his final task? Is Qimir the acolyte, the apprentice, or the master? Because that Force push was pretty strong. He seems stronger than being only an acolyte or an apprentice. And he floated down like he’s Batman ‘89. Remember the last time we saw Qimir, he was hanging upside-down from a tree. He had the higher ground the last time we see him. But what if Qimir is NOT Smilo Ren even though a majority of us already believe it is him? He did disarm Mae rather easily in Ep 2 and already said the first sentence of the Sith code. But why reveal himself? There is a scene right before Qimir got caught in Mae’s trap that it looked like he really was going to fetch her for more water. Some people are saying he knew it was a trap but I don’t know? It looked genuine right before he got caught upside-down. Mae screamed HELP! and then you see Qimir running towards her with concern in his face. And how he told Mae that he cares. Remember last year when everyone tried to predict who Marrok was in Ahsoka only to find out he’s smoke underneath it? Say we take his word and Qimir has never seen the Master’s face. Then he’s only assuming the Master is a he. What if it’s a she? I’m also reading from some Redditors believing it’s Vernestra. Why does she keep hiding these missions from the Jedi Council? And some think she sent Sol and that crew on a secret mission so they can kill all the loose ends. Of course if it’s Vernestra, it may piss off some SW fans who already know her from the recent High Republic comics from 3 years ago which Lesyle is using it as some of her source material + EU. Not to sound mean but Vernestra has a face I want to slap. Rebecca Henderson is Lesyle Headland’s real life wife, but Vernestra has a face I want to slap. Maybe because she’s green and bald. Doesn’t have a trustworthy face. I saw one Redditor thinks it’s Indara and that she didn’t really die after that opening scene. That she’s the Master. BTW, Manny Jacinto is listed at 5’11 while both Carrie-Anne Moss and Rebecca Henderson are both listed at 5’9. If Trinity is the Sith Lord all along after we all thought she died in the first episode would be quite hilarious. 😂 She could survive that small knife wound if Reva and Sabine can survive lightsaber cuts through their bodies. Let’s say Qimir is Smilo Ren and is the acolyte. He’s using Mae to perform his last test of killing a Jedi without a weapon. That’s why he was in such a rush for Mae to get to Kelnacca. But he killed Kelnacca with a lightsaber. He’s not passing his final test. Mae didn’t technically kill Torbin. He chose death. The poison could be considered a weapon or not but he chose to die. Mae didn’t kill him. I don’t understand Qimir revealing himself against 8 Jedis when he could’ve just left the scene if he knew Mae had a change of heart and was going to rat on him. I do agree with Star Wars Meg that The Acolyte should’ve dropped all episodes entirely ala Stranger Things. I grew up watching LOST (2004-2010) years before The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones, so I can understand the frustrations waiting a week to find out what happens next. A new generation may not have the patience for a mystery show dropping one episode per week. It’s actually quite unfair to judge The Acolyte because we are essentially looking at a puzzle 🧩 with missing pieces to the big picture. It would be like judging only the first half of Knives Out, Glass Onion, Death on the Nile, Clue, or any Scooby-Doo episode before we get to the final reveal. The Acolyte is basically a *whodunit* series. I’m not saying it’s great but it is quite unfair to judge it knowing it’s hiding a lot of things from the viewers. Alex from The Angry Joe Show said the one who killed Kelnacca was Bazil. I know he said it in jest but it was quite peculiar to see Bazil right before Mae found Kelnacca dead. He was not seen for most of that episode. Then we finally see him, Mae finds out Kelnacca is dead. We definitely got robbed not seeing Kelnacca not getting into a fight. What a jip! We get excited seeing a Wookiee Jedi after Ep 2 and we still didn’t get to see him fight for his life using a lightsaber. 🤦🏻 So wrong. The show does look quite cheap. Now where they filmed Khofar was somewhere in Madeira, Portugal. It was quite beautiful but then there are certain scenes to this show that looks bland and cheap. I don’t feel the immersion from it. Coruscant looks bland to me. It looks like a ghost town and it’s only 100 years before TPM. Where’s all the flying ships and tall skyscrapers surrounding the Jedi Temple? A hundred years difference is not going to make Coruscant look that bland and dead. The Acolyte costs $180M when it looks worse than Ahsoka at $105M. Heck, worse than Godzilla Minus One at only $15M. House of the Dragon revealed it’s first episode from Season 2 and that episode at around $20M looks 10x better than The Acolyte. Ahsoka used tons of Volume but I consider it the 2nd best looking among the SW Disney+ series behind Andor ($250M). Some shots in The Acolyte looks like something out of a Star Trek TV series. I don’t agree with Meg’s opinion from yesterday that the Star Wars Prequels looks far better than the Disney+ series. Only Revenge of the Sith still looks decent today but The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones have showed their age after 22-25 years. Check TPM’s scene between the Gungans vs. Droid Army. Very little green texture. Then AOTC’s Battle of Geonosis looks even more awful to me now than it did in 2002. The SW Disney+ looks better to me because it is mixing real location, Volume, and green/blue screens while the Prequels relied on most of the latter although I did visit The Plaza de España in Seville, Spain. It’s the scene when Anakin is holding Padmé’s luggages in AOTC. That was one of the biggest complaints of the Prequels. Most of the backgrounds didn’t feel real. It was like the actors were put in an animated movie or some video game from the PlayStation 3 era. Episode 5 Predictions? The obvious one is 5 of those 8 Jedis not named Sol, Yord, and Jecki will be redshirted and should be killed right away from Smilo Ren. But what happens then? Call me Chato predicts Sol will be captured and it becomes a rescue mission for Mae and Osha. Or what if Osha is captured and it’s a rescue mission for Sol, Mae, Yord, and Jecki? Or if it’s called Night, Sol (meaning Sun ☀️) dies in it? Smilo didn’t kill Osha but Smilo seemed to toss her away pretty easily with the Force. I think Smilo is going to use her to turn. Maybe that’s why the reveal. Since Episode 4 left us with a major cliffhanger, I think Episode 5’s viewership is going to spike up. As bad as The Acolyte has been, people are still curious who is Smilo Ren and who really killed the lesbian witch coven that we didn’t see in the previous flashback episode since we only saw it from Osha’s perspective. What are the Jedi hiding? Why did Torbin feel so guilty? My money is on Vernestra but I think it’s 90% Qimir. But I want to bet on a longshot. Everyone was dead wrong on Marrok last year. Vernestra is still a fairly new character from the comics/novels. If it’s her, I don’t think fans would get too mad. Now the person who killed the witch coven may not be Smilo Ren. That could be a different character. Manny Jacinto is 38-years-old. But his character might be younger in this series and might be too young to commit killing the witch coven. Smilo Ren? 90% Qimir 2% Vernestra 2% Koril 2% Aniseya 2% Indara 1% Sol’s evil twin 1% Bazil Here’s Vernestra’s convo with Sol. A way of trying to throw us off? Vernestra: I fear Mae is only a small part of her Master’s larger plan. A plan that is difficult to see. Some sort of shift. Something to tip the scales. Vernestra might be the Master and Qimir is Smilo Ren as either the Acolyte or her Apprentice. Episode 5 titled, Night, might be the banger episode we’ve been waiting for! Or it could still stink it up as usual…. What if the last four episodes kicks some serious ass? That’s quite a shift from hating it to loving it. From worst to best in a hurry. It’s like the Prequels, GameCube, and Kobe Bryant during their prime. Hated back in the day but beloved now from a generation who grew up on them.
The one thing that I really enjoy so far is Sol, I feel like he is a kind of Qui-Gon figure who really wants to do what is right regardless of the code
00:50 This really kills me, because I discovered SW in 97 when I was 5 ! And when The Phantom Menace came out, I had already watch the OT a dozen of time and knew them by heart. I could have quoted 50% of the movies. Yet I'm not an OT fan... I'm a prequel fan in the eyes of most "real" fans. ^^
Big congrats to Amandla Stenberg who just officially finished the franchise off by calling all of the critics and haters “white racists” in her new music video. Man, Lucasfilm has turned into a complete dumpster fire. That fan score is going to get below 10% now.
I just want to say thanks for your really balanced manner of sharing your opinions and facts. Too often people on both sides of liking or disliking Disney SW it just turns into a really negative slog. You are honest with your thoughts and don't hold back punches where it is deserved, but you do give a fair stand to the other side it feels. Maybe I am biased since I generally agree with you on the various projects and their quality (and my enjoyment of them), but it feels like I'm genuinely hearing about things that I dislike in a way that isn't just out to destroy it for the sake of generating negative press or to burn down SW for it.
There's also Obi-Wan stating that he was trained by Yoda in the same way he would go on to train Anakin, which implies that Yoda was Obi-Wan's master and not Qui-Gon
@@ahnok2855 I guess that's fair to bring up but Leia did say it was only images and feelings. All of that could have been and probably was her just projecting, because her foster family never gave her the full story. They only told her she died when she was young. They didnt give her the full story for the obvious reasons. So she was giving Luke the story that was told to her.
@@ahnok2855 And that, lore-wise, can be explained by force vision (through the Fporce you will see old frinds, long gone) or force memory, or Leia talking about her adopive mother.
Kelnacca had one of the symbols of the Witches in his ship. It might be that he was harboring a surviver or someone with close ties to them, and they betrayed him after learning the Jedi arts from him and releasing that Mae wouldn’t be finishing him as was her assignment.
Honestly, my opinion is that if you claim to like something but can't say why beyond "I like it," you might not actually like that thing very much. It reminds me of those The Last Jedi debates that Mauler had where by the end most people would say "Well, yeah, the movie isn't great," and at some point during the debates the people would say something like "STOP TREATING ME LIKE A STAR WARS FANBOY THAT CAN'T THINK FOR THEMSELVES, I HAVE ISSUES WITH THIS MOVIE TOO!!" Like, I'd be embarrassed to like The Acolyte, not only because popular TH-camrs as high as Jeremy Jahns and Pengunz0 are saying it's awful, but because it's obvious that it is poorly-written with bad acting and bad-looking sets and VFX. If you like it... dude, I know you're supposed to say "Cool, you do you, like what you want," but I think in this case that should be followed up with "WHY do you like it? You can't just say that and not give any reasons at all, because generic things like 'the acting is decent' don't really apply in the same way they do for other 'bad' shows."
Popular youtubers, also known as lazy fucks who do nothing on their own but make money off other people's work and catering to the dumbest common denominator.
Hey Thor... I think one reason why QuiGon suspected a Sith is because of Maul igniting his lightsaber. At this point in the story, as far as Ki Adi Mundi is concerned, he's just seen a force-user who is fighting with knives, force pushes, and martial arts. No reason to suspect a Sith lord at this point. And as he is not present when this potential Sith ignites his saber, we do not yet know what else Mundi knows. We need more info that will likely come in a future episode. There was a lot of hubris in that conference room with one master saying she's fast but weak, Mundi saying there's still some skill, and Sol saying that she's undisciplined... And Mundi has certainly show to be full of hubris since the prequels and clone wars... I don't put it past him to simply refuse to see what's going on.
Been seeing more and more comparisons with Andor as time moves on due use it as a benchmark for quality. While you can technically watch Andor without Star Wars knowledge, it gives back to the franchise both in writing quality and what it adds to contextualize the Empire. It answers why the Empire should truly be feared, and why oppressed communities (like the one on Ferrix by the end) would resonate to Luke Skywalker and see him as an almost messianic figure. It helps enhance the canon without disrupting it. I feel like the biggest crime the Acolyte does as a SWfan is that it takes away far too much from the canon lore. I have no idea why you would include Ki-Adi-Mundi or implications of a cover-up in order to maintain their "political" image. I mean, we don't even see in the show what repercussions that would actually entail. The show does not exhibit why this would be such an integral problem to the Jedi so much so that they would WILLINGLY cover-up Sith appearances. Even the prequels contextualized the Council's oversights and flaws far better with the inclusion of Palpatine.
yeah but Andor wasn't Star Wars.. it was just random Space Sci-Fi Star Wars needs BOTH intelligent writing AND cool stuff (lightsabers, the force, space battles) to really get the majority fans to buy in People can like Andor all they want.. but it had bad numbers and is kind of just objetively bad for Star Wars.. it really split the fanbase
@@Aetoski I respect your take but I completely disagree with this as someone whose a fan of the EU (books, games, etc.) Not everything has to be contextualized from the perspective of the jedi. Andor took strides to give you the perspective of the commonfolk. It's why Stormtroopers were allowed to be horrifying, brutal, and cold once more instead of the complete jokes they are when near anything that's force-sensitive. Andor took time to establish how worlds were brought into compliance, how they divided native groups to make them more easier to control, etc. They even made clear delineations between a planetary police force and the stormtroopers that are brought in to mop up rebels, which helped illustrate the scale to which even a small Empire controlled settlement is governed under stringent hierarchies. The show reminded me of the Imperial Agent plotline in The Old Republic, and I loved it for how much it added to the universe.
@@derektodd6650 i am a fan of the EU too. I still think Andor was bad for the brand overall... and honestly it could have done ALL the things it did, but be faster and appeal to a wider fan base at the same time.
Evil tends to change names and trappings throughout history, but it's very consistent in it's behavior and goals. That's one of the reasons it's so deceptive and dangerous, and perhaps the key reason to be aware of history. (Seriously, it's shocking how much the present mirrors ages past.)
ki adi mundi should not even be in the acolytes or born during this time. They have to be trolling people at this point. There’s just no way. Maybe they got ki adi mundi confused with other character. Now we have people saying that BBY is not only not canon since Disney has own the franchise, but it was never canon in Star Wars at all. You literally can’t this shit up. Someone also said that we don’t know ki adi mundi age at all in canon. I heard someone went back and changed ki adi mundi date of birth when he was actually born, though I’m not sure if that’s true or not. ki adi mundi be gaslighting the council for years now.
It is canon that jedi manage to remain active until extreme old age, medical technology in star wars is a lot more advanced and the life expectancy of his species has neve been stated on screen . I mean there there has been a real life human that reached 122 .
I've been watching out of morbid curiosity for a while. The Last Jedi extinguished my passion, and The Book of Boba Fett made me completely cold to any changes and live-action Disney fan fiction shows. But The Acolyte is a special show. The human who supervised the AI scripting this show has the rare talent to make me care again. I get pissed, and I don't even know why. I get notifications for the episodes, and it's physically painful. I never leave comments, but now I have this stupid theory about the Jedi taking the wrong sister in the "real" version of events at the cult monastery. OSHA is the psycho from the start, being weak in the Force, and Rick James was the hero from the beginning. It is so Headland's style. The baby Vader is "Green Karen" (I hope), and Mundi killed her, so he is the "liar" and "bad" from the start. I can imagine Lesley talking about this to ChatGPT and filming The Acolyte for $4 on an old abandoned set for a failed "Bambi live-action" movie. That whole frustrating show is just a big "hush money"/money laundering situation, turning everyone into a "wtf" state. Sorry for that brain fart. Awesome job keeping up with this "thing."
All arguments that the very appearance of a dark side user should scream Sith to the Jedi...Destroyed by the Clone Wars and the Witches of Dantomir who existed before the Clone Wars and the Jedi know about them. Qui Gon, frankly, in the context of the wider universe, looks like he's making a mountain out of a molehill
It's about the training. A Nightsister isn't going toe to toe with a Jedi Master like Maul did. Nor is just any dark side user going to go toe to toe with a half dozen Jedi like we just saw in The Acolyte.
Hey Thor, curious about your take on my prediction…I’m thinking the writers are going to reveal the mysterious dark sider to be Abeloth. The helmet has similar teeth to those I’ve seen in pictures of her. But my primary reason for the prediction is because she’s been setup as the bringer of chaos…and this has been a chaotic story thus far!
Now if a dark sider with a red saber attacks Jedi, it doesn't necessarily mean that dark sider is a Sith, as a Sith is a specific order, not just anyone that uses the dark side. However, Mundi, seemed rather insistent that it could not happen at all, that any dark sider would show up and attack a Jedi, as if a dark sider trained in the Jedi arts were pretty much unheard of for eons.
It's not the red lightsaber that gives them away as a Sith, but the very clearly evil helmet, which isn't very conspicuous for an organization that is supposed to be hiding in plain sight.
To the one guy that said the one chick already established character from the High Republic books not being the same person in the show... I mean, bro, have you been paying attention? Disney doesn't care about the canon. Ki Adi Mundi would like to say hello. Plus, either Poe or Fin saw flying troopers in the canon books way before Ep9, yet for a throw away joke, "They Fly Now?" And many, many more.
People think the age thing is the big issue but it's not. It's the fact that this show cannot exist in the same universe as Lucas Star Wars. The Jedi would still be on high alert after the events of the first 4 episodes of this show. It's less than a hundred years later.
The Acolyte's writer recently posted a potentially informative reply on twitter (I wish I had the link). In response to a question about why they had made Ki-Adi Mundi either a liar or a fool during Phantom Menace, she replied that he had been unaware of any Sith existing in the relevant time period. This creates four possible fates for Mundi by the end of the show, as far as I can see: 1) He gets mind-wiped. Somehow, someone learned how to do that. 2) At least one antagonist turns out to be a disguised Jedi and no one finds out about any Sith. 3) Everyone involved in the investigation is killed/turned and Mundi is never given the evidence. 4) I had a fourth but someone rang before I finished and suddenly I've forgotten so sod it. None of these seems very narratively impressive but at least they would seem to largely avoid further defaming and smearing the Jedi, which has been my main problem with the series.
Mundi might be Palpatine’s Masters Master in canon tbh, Mundi could be the Sith Mundi: * tries to say the Sith don't exist * Dooku is a great guy * Is the first to suggest Ahsoka be put on Trial, announces her verdict, is the first to alienate her from the Order which Mace then echoes * Tries to shake the Order's faith in Yoda, and Yoda's faith in himself, has stunning insight into a Sith ritual of Palpatine’s that even Dooku has no knowledge of * Brings up Kashyyyk * Is the first to suggest Kenobi be sent after Grievous * Is behind the Jedi plot to take over the Republic If this is indeed an idea stemming back to Lucas worlds and TCW then it would make sense that Mundi is the one put there despite him being the very one who talks about the Sith being gone, he’s in on it and a secret master or apprentice kinda like Syfo Dyas Mundi is the Sith
You are correct. Mundi’s line is important! It’s why the Jedi were so ignorant and arrogant throughout the entire prequel trilogy. Why they ignored Qui-Gon, and why they didn’t realize that a literal Sith Lord had the most powerful position in their government until it was too late. Mundi was the prime example of the modern Jedi who overconfidently believed he and many of his peers were untouchable. With the sith defeated and not seen for a long time, the mindset the council had was that being cautious or open-minded was unnecessary.
Like your video. Enjoyed your speculating on what is happening in the series. I can not say I am disliking the series for I am such a star wars fan. But, I am troubled by what seems to be "changes" in the star wars lore.
Well that puts it in perspective, i was just about 14 when TPM came out, so Thor is seven years older than I am. I had somebody come out of the woodwork the other day to nitpick me saying "presumed sith" while talking about the Ki Adi scene. I was like... yeah from the audience's perspective. They're clearly positing this mystery spoooky figure to be a Sith. That reminds me, I had a theory discussing this. They can explain this whole Sith debacle away by the dude being an old school Knight of Ren, if they existed that far back in time. Think about it, from what we've seen in canon they're dark siders, don't all use lightsabers aside from "Ren", aren't Sith, and are pretty rag-tag. Makes sense with Mae and uh Qimir I think. I don't like it, but it's a way for them to pigeon hole this shit into the canon. You're on point with your saying "oh yeah it was just some dark side cult, definitely not Sith". That wouldn't fly with me in-universe. But then again what do us fans know about the IP? Apparently nothing, according to the media. The Vernestra thing is simple really. The actress is Leslye's wife if I recall correctly, she's not good at acting. They also don't care about established canon either, so it makes sense show Vernestra is different than the book version.
Im definitely one of those types of fans that think Sith and darksider are totally different things, Like the witches believe they are working in the middle anyways so them working together makes since right? i mean the nightsisters do the same and they are darksiders who arnt sith. Maybe because ive played Swtor for like 12 years so my veiw of sith and jedi are different
I absolutely respect your perspective and love your analysis. I usually agree with you too. Here, we differ. I'm enjoying The Acolyte. The internet is on fire with this show. I think it's actually more devisive than the Sequels.
Hey thor, so I've always enjoyed your discussions about the force and the darkside in particular, and so I have a question regarding it. Is the darkside something that exists all on its own, or is it merely a result of force users bending the force to their will? And how would you explain things like a darkside nexus or places very strong with the darkside? Could the darkside have its own "will" similar to what we learn about the force in the prequels? Big fan of your videos, keep up the good work.
Thor, I believe having living Force users (good, bad or ugly) being able to link their abilities in a way to grant another Force user more power to alter reality ("use the Force") is the most damaging thing to come out of this series thus far. It actually breaks the original trilogy and prequals irreparably. If the Force can be used this way, the Jedi Council would have been doing these rituals to enhance Yoda's ability to use the force to grand scales. There would have been massive rituals of Jedi, their padawans and initiates combining to do amazing things. Even on the smaller scale, apprentices would be seen adding to their master's abilities. On the dark side, we would have seen the Emperor adding his considerable power to Vader to protect the Death Star from Luke... and even before that, the Sith Lords simply combining their strength using psychometry to easily hunt down Obi-wan and Yoda with "That is the system. And I am sure Skywalker is with them." By adding ritualistic magic that allows Force users to alter reality with greater strength, the Acolyte destroys the internal logic of how the Force has been used in Star Wars.
Here's a "What If?" scenario for you. Before I to that though, I think people need to realize the very limited input that Filoni actually had in the development of The Acolyte. He was able to advise, but he was not the Chief Creative Officer during it's development. This series is the product of Headland who was relying on Pablo Hidalgo and the Story Group. With that understanding, what if Filoni was secretly able to "guide" Headland into structuring The Acolyte in a way that would render almost everything that we think we know of the shows as null and void. If Filoni has not done what I suspect then I have developed a fix that gives Lucasfilm an EASY retcon to deploy to salvage this situation. Let's start with what The Acolyte has presented out so far... • Set ~100 years before the events of Phantom Menace • A cult of witches who are hiding from the Galaxy • These witches don't use the Magik version of the Force like the Witches of Dathomir • They view their source of power as self centered "Threads" that they equate to using the Force when they "pull" on the Threads • One of the uses of the Thread is the very definite Dark side ability of Possession There is a rumor/leak that The Force is going to be revealed as a female entity at some point during the show. That has not manifested yet, but it still could be a reveal AND amusingly it won't break canon if what I suspect is true. Stick with me here. Suspected Filoni Plan/fix What if the Acolyte witches are not directly using The Force, but are indeed pulling at "Threads" of a female Force entity? Not that the female entity IS the Force, but instead is an exceptionally strong entity that allows the Witches to tap into her for their selfish use of power. An entity reaching out with her Force ability that the Witches perceive as Threads. If your not quite catching what I'm implying yet, what if the Witches have become unwittingly enthralled by none other than Abeloth, believing her to be the Force itself. When not imprisoned Abeloth is, among other things, able to share her essence across multiple bodies simultaneously across the universe, influence the minds of others from across the universe, and uses possession on even the strongest of minds. I think in The Acolyte what we may be seeing is Abeloth reaching out from her prison using Force “Threads" and deceiving the Witches, granting them some of her Force strengths while she acts through them from her limited position. Potentially this could even explain Torbin's very un-Jedi like behavior that leads to him taking his own life. When he was possessed by the Witches he was actually subjugated by Abeloth being channeled into him. Over the next 16 years she never fully released him from her influence leaving a madness within him that the decade of meditation couldn't remove. The last bit of evidence or really odd coincidence that can be used to buffer the fix is the unrevealed Dark Side user, "The Master" giving Mae her directives. Look at the design of The Master's helmet. (Fix the URLs by replacing "DOT" with an actual ".") legendary-digital-network-assets.s3.amazonawsDOTcom/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/04123551/The-Acolyte-Star-Wars-The-Master-Sith-Lord.jpeg legendary-digital-network-assets.s3.amazonawsDOTcom/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/06061949/who-is-the-acolytes-mysterious-villain.jpg Now compare it to the depictions of Abeloth. Note also the tendril manifestations that the Witches could potentially have perceived as "threadlike" in a more abstract mental connection. static.wikia.nocookieDOTnet/villains/images/f/f9/AbelothArt.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20200512144006 static.wikia.nocookieDOTnet/villains/images/b/b7/Abeloth.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120816025310 Depending on who The Master actually turns out to be (my bet is on one of the mothers), they could be the Acolyte of Abeloth rather than a Sith. As I said, if Filoni has quietly implemented Abeloth as the hidden reason for everything Headland tried to implant within The Acolyte, I say bravo! If this is not Filoni's plan then all I can say is, someone, please, for the love of all things Star Wars, get this idea to him.
The thing with the Sith is that they were born out of Dark Jedi. Without an actual Sith Order functioning, any Dark Jedi is really just a prequel to a resurgant Sith, with or without their culture. To the Jedi, any Dark Jedi training apprentices would lead to a new version of the Sith, which would count for "seeing signs of the Sith returning".
True. Both Exar Kun and Darth Revan functionally rebooted the Sith from extinction already as Dark Jedi. Nevermind that Vitiate was still out there somewhere, Revan's order was very much its own incarnation.
Best Characters From The Acolyte 1. Smilo Ren/Qimir 2. Sol 3. Aniseya 4. Mae (older) 5. Osha 6. Yord Charlie from Emergency Awesome is correct. Yord is comparable to Syril in Andor. Uptight and always plays by the book. I don’t care for Osha and Jecki’s lesbian romance. So to differentiate Mae from Osha, Amandla wears similar wigs but Osha’s hair is shorter. Mae’s hair is shorter at the front but longer in the back. Or they can use one wig and attach extensions on the back for Mae’s hair. Almost every male SW fan wants a character who looks like a badass and wants him to use a lightsaber like a badass which includes a man child like Star Wars Theory who wants Revenge of the Sith be redone 100 more times. Male SW fans were jizzing who Marrok would turn out to be. That’s all male SW fans wants. They want lightsaber duels and the character looks cool doing it. Usually a white person like Hayden and they want him to twirl a lightsaber like *Carly* *King* and Ray Park. Carly King is loving The Acolyte. Let’s not hate her for enjoying it. *Sister* *Sage:* Ryan is the first natural-born superhero. And his brand needs to reflect that. He’s not one of Vought’s lab rat freaks. He was chosen - by fate, God, whatever- to be the one who saves the world. *Homelander:* Yes. But let’s not forget why he is special. Shall we? He’s my son. Chosen by God, sure, but, uh… made by me. *Sister* *Sage:* The chosen one narrative only works if he stands alone. Harry Potter. Neo. Luke Skywalker. Hollywood’s trained people to fall in love with *white* *boy* *lone* *saviors.* So, America will want to fall in love with Ryan. Technically, Luke isn’t the Chosen One but he was the reason why Anakin killed Palpatine (or supposedly if you ignore Episode IX). All this bring balance to the Force is a bunch of mumbo jumbo. That explanation of the Force needing light and dark is so vague and esoteric. To me, Luke was the hero of the Original Trilogy because he could’ve killed his dad but he chose not to. Or you can argue Vader pulled back but *love* from a father and son was the real hero of the OG Trilogy. Whining about lore breaking…. They showed fire in space! Mae & Osha undermines Anakin’s birth! Ki-Adi-Mundi broke TPM’s canon! Google search Star Wars plot holes from Yoda training Obi-Wan and not Qui-Gon to Leia seeing her dead mother to having complete amnesia for C-3PO and R2-D2. Why did Obi-Wan take 3 years to send Luke to Yoda? How come the Millennium Falcon wasn’t properly scanned? Vader can’t sense that’s his daughter he’s torturing and had captured twice? Why did Yoda give up so easily in ROTS when he already had the higher ground on Sidious? Why did it take a year to rescue Han from Jabba’s palace? It’s George Lucas making up stuff along the way. George has broke his own canon by adding characters that weren’t there. Ahsoka was the biggest unnecessary addition and Dave Filoni sure loves his baby girl, his waifu. Anakin wasn’t ranked Master yet and he still had his own padawan. She’s basically Rey before Rey. The closest to having live action Mara Jade. Ahsoka was hated early on. Then The Clone Wars got better and now she’s even more beloved than Leia and Padmé. Star Wars is not high art. There’s going to be bozo writing like how Jar Jar keeps getting promoted for higher government jobs. Or how Obi-Wan changes his first name to Ben but keeps his last name and hides Vader’s son in Anakin’s home planet with Ani’s own stepbrother and wife while Luke still uses the same last name. So much inconsistencies in the writing dating back to A New Hope. Star Wars is not coming from Coppola, Scorsese, or Nolan. It’s not Oppenheimer. Treat it like the next Jurassic movie. High expectations is why Star Wars gets judged so harshly compared to something like Star Trek when all Star Wars is involves space monks/samurais with telekinesis and laser swords.
Hey Thor, have you heard of the "Were-Sith" theory (as in Werewolf) already? The idea is that Qimir is actually the host of a possessed Sith artifact (i.e. the Master's Helmet) akin to what happened with Darth Momin in the Vader Comics. Maybe the ancient Sith takes over after sunset, which is why Qimir seems to be constantly checking the position of the sun in the 4th episode. That could also explain Qimir's "deal with/debt to the Master" and his relation to both him & Mae. He's so curious and frankly "sus" all the time, because he is the Master, but not really. Furthermore, Ki-Adi-Mundi's line about the Sith being extinct for a millennium would be literally true, although not in practice. What do you think? Personally, I still bank on Vernestra Rwoh being the culprit...
By introducing The Thread, but not giving it context is a Mystery Box. Just as adding a Red Saber into the story is a Mystery Box, given that it has implied meaning / consequences. If they make Mae a host of a former Sith Ghost/Spirit ... that somehow fits the contrived situation of explaining the events as seen i.e. they are using the Thread of power from a greater Sith to fuel their rituals. Mystery Box storytelling in small doses is fine, but it only works if you reveal the mystery eventually. The problem of trying to explain The Acolyte (as seen so far) is... there's a lot of dumb things that the EU has added in the past that Disney could have recycled or inserted into the story to explain events. It's difficult to know if they plan to tell the story, or if they plan to throw mystery boxes until people stop complaining. After all, money is what determines success, not ethics or responsibility. As seen with Modern Disney... Adding Mystery Boxes can replace talent or skill. Enough Mystery makes people think it's clever and satisfying content. So, it is not beyond the current administration to simply use the EU as a grab-bag for story elements it wants to recycle, out of the context of the story it was being used in. e.g. Force Healing and the Dyad. We also have story from the Old Republic with Force Spirits and possession as seen with Sheev and the unresolved/unexplained story of Snoke, the Clones, the planet full of worshippers, or how so many ISD's were 'buried' under the surface in The Rise of Skywalker/Palpatine. i.e. At the end of TROS, Palpatine's Daughter/Granddaughter won. The Skywalker's are all dead. Hurray ? Everyone jumping to Sith is inevitable, because the only reference to Maul/Palpatine is Sith. But ... this isn't guaranteed. Filoni avoided this by introducing Ahsoka which has Dark Jedi / Grey Jedi, who were ... mercenaries. Or something. Also, Witches of Dathomir, or Something else/Other as a Mystery Box. And the Others / Father, Daughter, Son elements of The Force that have somehow been resurrected with Ahsoka's ending resurrecting the Mystery Box that is the Father/Son/Daughter paradox / Gods.
Sith is a very specific thing, Sith and other dark side users draw on different wells of power, Sith can be distinguished from regular dark side users because the power they use is different, they have a unique presence in the force, Sith draw from a well of power that includes the spirits of all the past Sith, you have to have the mastery In those areas to draw from those spirits, so being simply a dark sider is something difference, also I think Ki-Adi might definitely be part of the cover up, a couple of sources say his double brain give him more insight into dark energies, and if you notice he is ALWAYS the first person to talk about the dark side in both the Movies and TCW, he is the one every time
Hey Thor, I haven’t watch the alkylate but from what I’ve seen I have the suspicion that perhaps the Kylo Mask Teeth character might be an ancient dark side user who is the true origin of the what would be known as the Knights of Ren, Disney will do any thing to connect the Sequels, and Kylo wasn’t a Sith, just a dark side user.
Hey Thor. Would making the villain a witch, like the night-witches of dathomir, explain the reason why the jedi never got worried until Qi-gon's encounter with Maul? It seems plausible that the jedi wouldn't consider this lone witch a threat especially if he/she was the only one and that had gone rouge.
Hey Thor. What do you want to see and what do you expect in the last four episodes of the Acolyte? I'm seeing some moments that seem to break canon, and I'm not sure if those issues can be rectified.
Regarding Sith / not Sith, firstly it's clear by the producers that it's about the Sith and secondly it's clear by the use of the Sith code by Mae and Qymir
inb4 the greatest universe split of all time; we’re getting hints of the cannon breaking maybe in a build up to show that this show (and possibly the sequels) is happening in a different universe 👀. huffing major hopium, of course
Venestra is a substitute for Yoda and Mace. That's why they chose her. It rhymes. What if Ki-Adi-Mundi is playing along and Venestra or Sol are "fallen jedi" but they cover it up because they can't have people thinking publicly that the Jedi are evil? That would make sense, especially if he's the one who catches them.
my guess is that there will be NO fight shown at all. it will show SOL, Yord, Jecki running slightly battered and brusied (maybe Sol and Jecki carrying a wounded Yord) and the twins together separately running off from the sith so they can carry on that storyline of one trying to kill the other and saying "You tried to kill me" then the other "YOU tried to KILL me" dialogue. All the token jedis in the back will simply die off screen
Hey Thor, you made some nice points about how the events of the show change the Jedi perspective from the prequels, but this also would effect the Sith perspective, the famous line by Ki Adi Mundi has been talked about a lot, but also this seems to undermine Darth Maul too when he says to Sidious "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we will have revenge." It at least re-contextualizes the line to mean him and Sidious revealing themselves, and not the Sith in general.
Squid Games Guy: "Master, the wookiee homeworld is under attack from droids!"
Acolyte imitation Ki-Adi-Mundi: "Eh, who cares."
It also brings up the question of why the counsel sent Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to find Maul if they wanted to hide the involvement of the Sith?
Acolyte Obi-wan: It’s a system we can afford to lose
At this point, I feel like they would do that just to piss us off even more
in _The Phantom Menace,_ when telling the Jedi Council about his encounter with Darth Maul, Qui-Gon says “he was trained in the Jedi arts… my *_only_* conclusion can be that it was a Sith Lord.” to which Ki-Adi-Mundi replies “impossible! the Sith have been extinct for a millennium.”
sooo, even the word Sith is never used in _The Acolyte,_ and Mundi never appears in another episode, he still knows a Jedi-trained assassin killing Jedi Masters… shouldn’t he also conclude that the adversary is a Sith Lord, appearing only 87 years prior to his “millennium” quote?
I suppose the only explanation can be, when they remove the bad guy’s helmet like a _Scooby-Doo_ villain, they say “argh, you got me! I would’ve gotten away with it if it wasn’t for those meddling Padawans! and FYI, I’m totally _not_ a Sith!”
i'm pretty sure the appearence, the eyes and the lightsaber also had weight for Qui Gon to believe he saw a Sith... not only that he was good with a lightsaber... He also probably could sense a different dark side.
@@joaopedrorosa6198 - I quoted the scene directly, you’re just making assumptions… but if you want to go there: at the end of the episode, a bad guy with Sith-y clothes and a red lightsaber shows up, so unless everyone who sees him is killed, it’s reasonable to _assume_ word of this individual would make it back to the Jedi Temple.
but Thor makes the best point: even if they aren’t wearing an official Sith membership badge, any Dark Force User systematically killing Jedi is, in essence if not name, a Sith 🤷🏻♂️
Well and for another thing, the Sith really are just Dark Jedi. Their origins come from exiled Jedi who used the dark side. That's it.
The Sith have actually gone extinct and been rebooted by fallen Jedi who flirted with the dark side just a bit too much (Exar Kun, Revan and Malak).
So even if the Sith had been dormant or extinct for a millennium, just the fact that there is a being out there, trained in the force and lightsaber combat, dabbling in the dark side with some sort of grudge against the Jedi should preclude _any_ notion of "Pshaw oh that's impossible my guy!" from any Jedi with even a cursory knowledge of galactic history and a modicum of critical thinking skills.
Mundi's arrogant dismissal can _only_ remotely work in a time when the Dark side has been dormant for a sustained period of time.
This was always the issue with this series and people just dismissed it over and over and over but now it's becoming unavoidable. The Sequels battered George's canon on one end and now the Acolyte is here to to the same from the opposite end.
His response should have been: oh crap, not this again
It completely contradicts the lore, and this joke of a director thought she could fool those who aren’t so observant. Many of these activists forget that they’re actually dealing with people who have encyclopedias about all starwars creatures and characters.
Man, Thor really does not sound like he's in his mid forties. Dude's got the exlixer of youth lathered on his vocal cords.
Lol right? I was in 9th grade when TPM came out. I was super surprised to hear he was 21 then.
Too bad the Acolyte is sapping it out of him, his reviews sound so deadpan like he’s just ready for the pain to end
For real. I was 8 years old when The Phantom Menace came out. I never would have thought that he was that much older than me.
@@achannell362 I'm 41 and was 19 when TPM came out. I sound and look like I'm younger than my age. Heck what's goofy is I'm black and from Texas. I keep getting told I sound white as hell, and here in Texas people constantly ask which state I came from, even though I'm a native Texan, they say I don't have the Texas accent.
he's in his 40's not his 70's lol
"It's too obvious for the Sith."
Are you really expecting Disney to be intelligent or decent at writing?
All I’m saying is that if Qui Gon got force pushed 5 feet into the air along with 5-6 other Jedi, he wouldn’t report to the counsel that the Sith had returned…
He would have reported that he encountered a Sith Lord who had more power than any Jedi in thousands of years.
they think everyone are this dumb is the problem...
If it is him, I think even the shells will jump ship. They are still thinking it’s going to turn out to be some kind of masterpiece.
Watch master is not a Sith but something else. Why would they even put this guy in the movie
Remember when Uncle Owen was Obi-Wan's brother, and Luke and Leia weren't related at all, and Palpatine was actually a weak-willed puppet of other politicians, and Luke and Leia's mother actually lived long enough for Leia to have vaguely known her?
Lucas made things up as he went too. But he's cultivated this image of The Ultimate Mastermind Of Epic Storytelling and successfully duped an entire fandom into believing it, when the evidence that he's been full of hot shit about his 'plans' is overwhelming.
That first comment is so full of assumptions and strawmen... Respect to you Thor for answering it the way you did. I would have ignored it or not been as nice if it were me in your shoes.
The Original questioner said: Now you might understand how OT fans feel about the Prequels contradicting the OT.. In 1999, I saw The Phantom Menace in the theater 13 times, even taking off work to do so. So, I have firsthand experience as an OT fan, considering this question, as I'm sure you do too. At the time, the biggest change was the introduction of the midichlorians. The Force changed from an energy field created by all living things to something physically quantifiable by science. That was the biggest thing, or supposed contradiction, that I had to take a lot of time to finally accept, and I did so because I realized that it was George Lucas trying to give us another aspect of the Force, and another way that the Jedi perceive the Force as well. It took a little while to finally come around to that acceptance, and I did, because spiritual or mystical things also may have a physical component as well.
I always saw Midichlorians as the SW equivalent of Power Levels as shown in DBZ.
@@elmermedina1713 Yeah! That's a pretty interesting analogy, pretty similar.
Midichlorians act as a medium between The Force and organic life. Concentration determines level of Force Sensitivity. However higher concentration doesn't mean the wielder will be an extraordinary Force user. Training is also important to realize that potential. Obi-Wan had a comparatively low concentration, but his strenuous dedication to training enabled him to become one of the finest masters and swordsman in the galaxy.
@@Fact-fiend_1000ASMR.I mean, Midichlorians have a pretty important role from a more practical perspective: There has to be _some_ way to measure the Force!
@@Daniel_Huffman I agree. It's not as lore breaking as some make it out to be.
I still can't with the name "Darth Smiley" 😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
Smilo-Ren
Darth Teeth
My favorite is Zipperhead 😂
@@meanderinorangeswhen Metalcommander came out with that one, I almost did a spit take.
I heard he's the antagonist of the next Smile movie
Not to mention that Sio Bibble, who was the governor of Naboo, says there hasn't been a full-scale war since the formation of the Republic 1,000 years before.
Edit: This was said during AotC, BTW.
Perhaps Sio Bibble is part of a cover-up? Like Ki-Adi Mundi?
THIS Republic. Meaning that version of the republic.
@@MeThinks995 because there's the current one to AotC and the Old Republic too thousands of years before it
The Ruusan Reformations restructured the Republic into its then-current form following the conclusion of the New Sith Wars in 1,000 BBY. While the Republic as a political entity had been around for a thousand generations, and the Jedi Order for even longer, those were still very different organizations than the ones we are familiar with.
An example of a real life analogy for this would be France, a country that has been around for hundreds of years, but has only existed in its current form since the Fifth Republic was established in 1958.
I think you guys need to read my comment again because you seem to think I have an issue with the date as I'm mentioning the Ruusan Reformation with the 1,000-year date.
My issue is with the idea of all of these conflicts occurring during what the Prequels and even the High Republic describe as a golden age of peace not just for the Jedi but for the Republic but for some reason being caught completely by surprise by later conflicts like the situation on Naboo and arresting Dooku.
Hey Thor, I really wish we had gotten a show about Darth Bane and Darth Zannah instead of the Acolyte. What do you think and what are your ideas about how the story might have played out?
I don't trust them to follow the source material at all.
Ki-Adi Sundi came before Ki-Adi Mundi obviously
Don't forget, Ki-Adi Tundi on Endor and Ki-Adi Wundi at Exegol. rofl
I kinda think Lucas chose the timeframe for the Sith’s absence to be “a millennium” mostly to ensure Yoda wasn’t around for the last time the Sith existed… lots of other reasons, too, but saying “hundreds of years” would work for most intentions, just not the Yoda problem 🤷🏻♂️
I just fundamentally disagree with the idea the Jedi would ever try to 'cover up' the return of the Sith, or any rogue dark side user threat. It was repeatedly, REPEATEDLY evident in the old canon the Jedi would sound all the alarms and always attempt to rally the Republic against any kind of Sith/dark side threat to galactic peace. Their relationship with the Republic was symbiotic, they had a vested interest in ensuring a good relationship. And it's probably easier to combat a dark side threat with the political might of the galactic government working WITH you rather than AGAINST you. The Jedi simply would not be so stupid as to try and hide or cover up a dark side threat. It's dumb, really dumb.
I mean the last time someone didn’t take a dark side threat seriously was during KOTOR where Revan didn’t bother telling anyone about the Sith Empire he found leaving the Jedi and Republic caught with their pants down 300 years later.
You are right, the Jedi as established in all prior content wouldn’t cover it up (at least amongst themselves).
Headland is bringing a contrary perspective, making the Jedi a blatant analog for real world institutions she thinks are inherently flawed and corrupt.
@@emberfist8347 Imagine if the Jedi Council, Vandar and Vrook were like "We can't tell the Republic about Revan and Malak" as Malak is literally kicking down doors with his fleet, burning the galaxy down around their ears.
@@JoRoq1 She's tried to make the Jedi into a creaking bureacratic power system, like...the Republic itself. But the comparison just doesn't work, to me, that isn't what the Jedi are.
@@Blisterdude123Exactly. The jedi were disillusioned into believing the Republic is still good for the galaxy.
Andor and Rogue One: The only things Disney Star Wars produced that I really enjoyed.
Rogue One is just an embarrassing key jangling movie
Rogue literally took the ideas from Lucas, and squeezed themselves in between the timeline lol. The only good about that film was Vader, nothing more.
@moongoalie2410 it's such an unnecessary movie haha
@@idiot_city5444 Yeah there was a lot of that, but at the time it released I admit I was enjoying seeing the familiar OT stuff again after so many years. And I did quite like how they dealt with the Death Star weakness and connected to ANH tbh. A lot of the main characters were a bit flat though.
But even today now that the nostalgia sheen has worn off I still think it's more enjoyable than most other Disney content.
Bad series aside. Can we just seriously get an answer on wtf the budget was spent on.
Cocaine
I heard that reshoots had to happen
@@Deuteromisso, they spent it on loads and loads of turd polish
Those sets cost a lot for sure.. they all look mostly practical.. and they still look bad is the ironic part
The answer was on themselves...
No seriously the first take tested went poorly, the second take did worse, and this is the now current take after they got a budget slash.
Everything is made poorly and doesn't care about what came before or what came after.
He meant a millennium in dog years. So like 140 years.
When you think about it this actually makes sense. You can break cannon however you want. What is a standard year in the star wars universe??? Every planet revolves around a sun at different rates. In different systems a year would be a different duration of time.
🤔
The writer of Episode 4 "answering" questions on Twitter has made it even more confusing to me.. but I give her credit for going public though.
+-
i wonder how they´ll make it worse next week...
I absolutely love how sincere and level headed thor is with his opinions! Appreciate you, brother! Love the channel
Hey Thor, did you know that according to Amandala Steinberg, that seen in the forest was originally back to front and it was Mae who was hanging from the tree until they reshot the scene?
I really think they did that to make it less obvious that discount Ezra Miller was the one to kill the Wookie. 😂
Wait a second, you were born in 1978 as well, Thor? 😮
I just completed 46... June 16th.
Bon in 1977 actually... my birthday this year is still to come.
Same, Thor! Just turned 47 last week!
I feel like we are at the point that Disney have lost all the fans they will lose. The ones left are the harshest defenders that will eat up any garbage they are fed because it can't get worse than this show.
It reminds me of what RLM said about fans who don't care what they watch as long as there’s a lightsaber in it.
Spot on
Yet you continue to watch.
Funny you're saying that on this channel. Thor, and most who watch him and his wife's videos, are the fans with harsh criticisms of Disney BECAUSE we want to see it get better. Not because we "hate everything they make."
Are we the fools? Maybe, but I don't believe we are.
Andor season 2 is coming, so....
the acolyte might not give a shit about canon but I really think obi wan and book of boba were worse. Those shows were absolute garbage and sullied their legacy characters so much. At least the acolyte tries to tell its own story instead of being only a vehicle for garbage fan service.
We’re cooked bro
Hahahaha facts
Beyond cooked it might be wraps
Cooked like Vader on Mustafar.🌋
Lol true
BIG FACTS.
It's weird that the Jedis _kinda forgot_ about about their ability to sense things or the existence of FOBs so they somehow needed a dog-like alien who can track someone by smelling his clothes.
Not to mention that they can detect an individual's prior presence through the Force as long as the being they were tracking wasn't also using the Force to cover their tracks.
@@Daniel_Huffman Or they could scan the planet from orbit like any normal sci-fi show would do.
@@peterg9729 Not just other franchises, but even any competent show in this very franchise.
I’ve gotten into countless arguments already with people 🗿
but why?
@@joaopedrorosa6198 your right like why even bother ,
Here’s a simple question. Why wasn’t Kelnacca living in a Wookie hut/house up in the trees. I assumed that’s why we were shown all those tall trees, as a setup.
Because that would've been way too cool.
There is a HUGE difference between 1,000 years and 100 years you really can't just brush off Ki Adi Mundi's comment in PT
The show can't even stay consistent between its own episodes. It can't even stay consistent with the high Republic content. Why are we suprised its not consistent with Pre Disney content.
Also, where the Acolyte fails in contextualizing a separate dark-side faction philosophy, KOTOR2 exceeds at with Kreia and her entire Nietzschean take on the Force as a whole. Everything we see now in the EU has been done better in previous EU. Instead of paying lip-service to the witch's comprehension of the force as the "thread", we have an entire game examining the traumatic aftermath of a genocidal conflict that wounds the force to the point where people like Kreia arise and develop their critiques on this metaphysical power that dictates our very will and every choice. Instead of having CW-tier writing for their dark-side adjacent characters, a lot of conversations with Nihil, Kreia, and the various companions you can convert to the dark-side like Bao-dur or the Handmaiden that give you their varied perspectives on the universe and the force. Whereas Leslye Headland has shown she cannot write a sci-fi setting yet attempts to stand on the shoulders of a prestigious samurai film, Chris Avellone made such an impactful subversion that it's felt to this day in further EU material like in the Old Republic and video-essays analyzing Kreia or KOTOR2.
We see how important it is to have a writer or showrunner that understands the assignment.
Very. Well. Said.
The thing about all great Sci-Fi stories is that they're supposed to make you think and ask questions...
These new writers aren't interested in letting you think as they are in telling you what to think.
You knows what’s great about fiction? You can some loser bastardize it for years, discard when it loses them profit, and someone else picks it up and makes a masterpiece from it.
Right now we’re in a period of narcissists who got elevated to a spot either due to nepotism, or politics.
I'm kinda tired of how people are still claiming The Prequels contradict The Originals, when they entirely don't. I seen it alot as a counter-argument in regards to The Sequels. I swear it's like these people either only saw the films once long or haven't recently watched the films, or they just go by YT videos that say so, or they didn't pay attention.
Contradictory or not, I just felt the Prequels didn’t match my vague imagination.
Sequel defenders are incapable of abstract understanding, or able to contextualize, or care about consistency, or...this list could go on.
@@ian-flanagan I understand that cause I read the EU books and was surprised how the movies didn't fully align with the books. But there were some aspects that did fit. So I chalked it up to since Star Wars occurred so long ago the tales kinda got lost in translation over the eons.
@@DeuteromisThe things that didn’t add up was mostly due to writers ignoring instructions to not discuss the past and all were later rectified.
There a few direct contradictions, like Leia's remembering her mother, the Prequels made the Jedi the superheroes of the Republic but forgotten a meere 20 years later... there's propagenda and then massive brainwashing! The Sith concept was added after, and on screen in the Prequels, along with Vader's redemption being one of prophecy.
The Force also used to be 'magic' and similar to martial arts that anyone with enough dedication could become a Jedi - see Sabine wren? - but some people have a natural ability to it.
Obi-Wan not remembering R2 or C3P0, "your father wanted you to have it, when old enough" is either a straight lie or a retcon. Same with the 'certain point of view'
The prequels also adds alot of great stuff, it expanded and made the story flow broader, while keeping it smallish. It wasn't perfect, but it went about the same way and style.
And they didn t go 180° on certain characters either...
Yeah Thor, I totally agree on Andor. I just watched it for the first time, and I was ABSOLUTELY riveted. Wow, what a show! I have LONG desired something different with Star Wars that was still STAR WARS, and Andor delivered. I'm SO glad to hear that it got renewed for a second season. Can't wait to see where it goes from here. It made me want to go back and rewatch Rogue One, which I enjoyed, even though I've only actually seen it once, when it came out.
Still contradicts the OT, and Andor does not help because of the allegory to modern world. You are literally helping Kennedyfilm with blind positivity.
Agreed, Andor is one of those few things thanks to which I am still interested in Star Wars.
@@mazkeraid4039 Dude, piss off. I like it. If you don't, that's YOUR bag.
@@stormhawk31 Sure, have fun being a sucker.
@@mazkeraid4039 You act like Star Wars has never had allegories to the real world
Hey Thor, I think I nailed down a some solid hints that Vernestra is a sith and it actually lines up with the Ki-Adi-Mundi stuff not braking cannon, Tell me what you think:
Vernestra is the Sith
1. Wookie died passively in a chair, as if someone they trusted was visiting them.
(this is also probably why the fight wasn't "good for POV". After script revision, no fight happened and it would of revealed the true identity)
2. Sol possibly sensed a familiar presence before the Sith showed up.
3. I didn't watch the show, but someone said sith wasn't mentioned in the scene with Mundi...I was about to respond "Anyone who survives is reporting this. Eventually that would be passed on to someone who identifies the enemy as Sith". That's when a light bulb went off, the only way Mundi doesn't find out is if the Jedi report to the Jedi Master, Vernestra, and she lies or hides the information. Info train stops with her, because she is the Sith in hiding.
Darn, left a typo. I'm always hesitant to fix it because then it puts "(editted)" in the post.
@@yevaud6 >>always hesitant to fix it because then it puts "(editted)"
I think they went out of their way to specifically put in that guy who later said that the sith were extinct for a millenia. To show that he and the other jedi were covering up this incident, so the senate and the jedi council did not get to hear about it.
Which just paints the jedi as being completely incompetent, and it suggests that the Senate apparently has a stronger influence on them.
With the added benefit that it would piss off most of the OG fans.
The Jedi covered this incident up, to protect their reputation, which led to the Sith taking over and the Jedi being “hunted down and defeated”
Smart, this totally doesn’t put the Jedi in an even worse light.
Nope, they literally did not think about it until the backlash.
@@DeuteromisNot to mention that it makes them criminally complacent and makes Palpatine’s machinations against them and the Republic look less impressive in retrospect.
Disney doesn't know how fire works so they probably thought a Millennium was a Century lol
Hey Thor, what would you say to people that say the Acolyte doesn't break Canon because the villains in the show aren't technically called "Sith"?
To me it depends on how they explain it. They're going out of their way to suggest Jedi. They're saying it's definitely Jedi training, and they also said that it could be some splinter Jedi faction. If it turns out to be some Jedi faction that splintered off and went bad, I could see them saying these weren't Sith.
He has explained this so many times. Even I'm this video. Do you use the force? Do you hurt others? Do you use a red lightsaber? Than don't care what you call yourself - you're a Sith.
Reverse all that and you're a Jedi in the eyes of all others. Like Ahsoka
It would be like Star Trek: Enterprise having the Ferengi and Borg before their first official encounter but not naming them it doesn’t work. Because as Qui-Gon doesn’t think any conclusion but Maul was a Sith since he was trained in the ways of Jedi it would be odd nobody mention the deaths of several dozen Jedi by a lightsaber wielding assassin a century before.
You mean if they don't identify as the Sith then they're not "technically" the Sith? Sith are defined by actions not what they choose to call themselves.
@@rossburney8713 Ventress wasn't considered a Sith. She was never called one during clone Wars. Inquisitors weren't considered Sith either. Why are people acting like everyone who has ever used a red lightsaber was referred to as a Sith?
Hey Thor, I've been wondering about droid sentience lately and why Star Wars rarely takes it seriously. I even think that people applauding clone sentience and individuality is a bit of a double standard when those same people dismiss droids as merely extensions of their creators. Even though Rex famously denies this, the fact is that clones are programmed to obey orders without question and are manufactured. Most clones only have limited independent thinking and a clone being able to live outside a military is incredibly rare. The only reason they develop individuality is because of experience. But the funny thing is, droids develop individuality for the same reason. The only difference is that droids regularly have their memories wiped specifically to prevent them from developing individuality and potentially rebelling. There's a moment in Heir to the Empire where Luke is asked why he has never wiped C-3PO's memories in all the years he's known him, and Luke reveals that he's uncomfortable with the idea of stripping his friend of individuality. And I don't know if you have played KOTOR 2 yet, but there's a mission where HK-47 argues with HK-50, who dismisses him as obsolete. But HK-47 argues that he is superior because he has developed individuality and has given himself a higher purpose and meaning because he has never had his mind wiped. These examples show that droid sentience should not be played for laughs so much in the franchise. In fact, I think the galaxy is overdue for a galaxy-wide droid revolution just to show people that sentient droids deserve equal treatment.
This is actually addressed in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Measure of a Man" where Lt. Data's rights are debated because he's an android and I wish Star Wars had something similar.
What do you think?
Do you want to think of the OT and PT heros as slavers, or pet owners? For me its the latter, with the droids just being animal equivalents. Yes, some are droids do eventually become quite exceptional, but most aren't.
Hey Thor, I have worries that the reason Star Wars has been so horribly mismanaged for years at this point is because people like Kathleen and Leslie may be abusing the money that gets allotted to them on these projects. Almost like an unchecked government of sorts. (Because we’ve seen that there is very little oversight in important areas) Do you think this deserves more discussion?
In addition, a video surfaced last night of a Disney Executive on multiple dates talking about how Disney is actively discriminating against White people from attaining positions. What the hell is happening 😭
I want Darth "Smilie" to be Palpatine.
Then having people being:"but his birth date was never canon !!!"
@@Hanoua2 Maybe his "cannon" birthday is what we are"supposed" to believe and he's actually older than we think!
Dumb and cheap
He may be Born already at this point. its abt. 65BBY during the Acolyte. just 33 yrs before TPM.
@@donramon9723I thought Disney said it was about a hundred years before the prequels?
This era will be call Post-Wars
14:24 Disney Jedi mind trick "This is the show you are looking for" (with the hand gesture) lol
This is not my Jedi order anymore 😭
Thank you for this video 🙌🏻 this really put it all in perspective for me as someone who first fell in love with the original trilogy then grew up with the prequel trilogy now I know what it’s like for the ones who grew up with the original trilogy. Little things change here and there but we’re all Star Wars fans and at the end of the day we’re just going along the ride. But really thank you for putting it all into perspective and filling in those questions I’ve had about what the acolyte really is because at this point nobody has said it’s a sith even though everything else has been spelt out for us, but like you said in the prequels they based it off them being a violent Jedi killing force. 🙌🏻 perfectly solved that discrepancy for me, hopefully they stick to that and the acolyte doesn’t end up being some sort of witch 🥴. Funny thing is I saw somebody comment on a post “hopefully they don’t kill of kelnacca” and that’s exactly what they did in the next episode😂😅💀💀. But I’m loving this series and getting attached to the characters a lot more so than the sequel trilogy, these really feel like Star Wars characters to me that could fit in with everyone else, sure there are a few flaws but I’m enjoying it
Which to be honest I hope the acolyte isn’t a sith, maybe just some other kind of dark side of the force user??????? I don’t know. But all I know is in the time of prequel the prequel trilogy the sith haven’t been around 1000 years and if this were to be a sith then that would be a slap in the face
Nothing Disney makes is canonical anyway.
Exactly.
@@fission_mailed nah, cannon stopped being changed a long time ago for most of us. You can call it Disney cannon if you want, the cannon I'm interested in doesn't involve them.
Everything will be solved, Darth Non Defining Non Binarian Ultra Disnesian will erase all memories from Jedi and Threat sensitive individuals
Is Ashoka not cannon?
She is, just not any version Disney presents. @@EnclaveArtimas
“Darth Smiley” 😅
Thor is 46 but sounds like he's 32! What is this dark magic!
And how much do you think one's voice changes over the years? It's not the same as being preteen, teen and after.
What I can't work out is how they could possibly hide something like this from the council. Yoda could sense Anakin was in pain when his mother died and they were on different planets.
Yoda sensed when ki-adi-mundi was killed along with the other jedi on other worlds and he's alive at this point in time so how didn't he sense the deaths of 3 jed?.
When the Jedi learned that the withches had created the twins why was there no mention of a vergence in the force or any mention of the prophecy?
It also seems illogical for the Sith to attack the jedi at this point in time as they weren't in a position to defeat the Jedi
Just consume product then get excited for new product.
You can tell that the people writing this series knows nothing about lore. The Jedi would not have thought Mae was being trained by a fallen Jedi because there had only been a few in the entire history of the order. I think it was about 22. Not counting the great schisms if the past . They knew all of the Jedi that had left the order and the rest are accounted for.
"Not counting the great schisms of the past" isn't entirely fair, because for most of the pre-Bane timeline, any of the fallen Jedi would have been going straight over to the Sith, like Exar Kun for example. There would be much more than 22 over the longer term.
One of their own who was fairly solitary having gone bad without the order noticing is a reasonable hypothesis to bring up for who could have trained Mae. So is a dark force cult that isn't the Sith (e.g. Nightsisters).
It's also possible the events of the series end up being chalked up to Darth Zipperface being some one-off who found a Sith holocron and learned from it. Then Mundi a century later might be counting that as a lone actor rather than a continuation of the organized sith order when he says that has been extinct for a millennium. That might actually be where this ends up, especially if zipperface is the apprentice and the master sets him (or her, depending how much the voice distorter is changing) to die for being too brazen and wants to sell the self-taught narrative to get the case closed.
To be fair. The lore is so expansive, it would be normal for a writer to get some things wrong.
I followed the series for years and I'm still learning 😅
@@xcfjdyrkdtulkgfilhu The reason it's fair is because outside of those times of war they knew who fell away. There would have been no blindspots during the high Republic era where a disgruntled Jedi could have fallen away without being noticed. You have to remember that the force gave them full view of the Republic overall temperament of the citizens and all feelings are if ever Jedi. That why they couldn't believe a single Sith could have even returned during the prequel era. They didn't realize that their force vision was being clouded.
@@BrakSplash Right and I agree but this is fundamental lore breaking. The force and the Jedi are behaving completely different. This isn't a minor change
@@cedricroney1475 I see what you mean
As a 27 year old that grew up with the prequels and really admires the Jedi for their character, ethics, and wisdom… I’m completely blown away by Disney’s lack of care for the deeper nuance of the Jedi downfall to make them feel like modern day governments. The point was that even with their wisdom that they still could become complacent, not that they are just ignorant. This change affects way more than they think. It really really is close (if not) the last straw with Disney Star Wars for me
Andor is amazing.
We need to talk about The Acolyte. There is a lot to unpack from Episode 4 as I replayed certain scenes over and over and let’s make predictions for Episode 5. Qimir or not Qimir, that is the question…
Qimir: How do you kill a Jedi without a weapon? It has to be some sort of test, right? You engage unarmed, but you can use their saber if you disarm them? Or is that cheating? I’m just curious how you’re gonna do it this time. You’ve failed so much.
Mae: I didn’t fail. I killed Indara and I killed Torbin.
Qimir: But you killed them “your way.” You have to kill the Wookiee without a weapon. Your Master wants you to..
Mae: What kind of deal did you make with him?
Qimir: I didn’t. Uh, *we* didn’t exactly. I… I just owe him. You know how he is, he collects people.
Mae: I’ve never seen his face. Have you?
Qimir: You know I haven’t. Oh, look, there it is. The perimeter.
I thought when Qimir said *”we* didn’t exactly” after he said *“I* didn’t” to be strange. Is he including Mae as part of the deal? Why say we when Mae was asking him directly? And then listen carefully to how he said “he collects people.” He said *people* in a serious tone the same way he told Mae that “he’d kill you.”
All the tea leaves points to Qimir as Smilo Ren. He changes the topic quickly after Mae asked him if he’s seen the Master’s face. And then his obvious rush to get to Kelnacca (or Kelly as some Redditors call him). Why is Qimir in such a hurry? Because he knows the Jedis are coming? He needs Mae to perform his final task?
Is Qimir the acolyte, the apprentice, or the master? Because that Force push was pretty strong. He seems stronger than being only an acolyte or an apprentice. And he floated down like he’s Batman ‘89. Remember the last time we saw Qimir, he was hanging upside-down from a tree. He had the higher ground the last time we see him.
But what if Qimir is NOT Smilo Ren even though a majority of us already believe it is him? He did disarm Mae rather easily in Ep 2 and already said the first sentence of the Sith code. But why reveal himself? There is a scene right before Qimir got caught in Mae’s trap that it looked like he really was going to fetch her for more water.
Some people are saying he knew it was a trap but I don’t know? It looked genuine right before he got caught upside-down. Mae screamed HELP! and then you see Qimir running towards her with concern in his face. And how he told Mae that he cares. Remember last year when everyone tried to predict who Marrok was in Ahsoka only to find out he’s smoke underneath it?
Say we take his word and Qimir has never seen the Master’s face. Then he’s only assuming the Master is a he. What if it’s a she? I’m also reading from some Redditors believing it’s Vernestra. Why does she keep hiding these missions from the Jedi Council? And some think she sent Sol and that crew on a secret mission so they can kill all the loose ends.
Of course if it’s Vernestra, it may piss off some SW fans who already know her from the recent High Republic comics from 3 years ago which Lesyle is using it as some of her source material + EU. Not to sound mean but Vernestra has a face I want to slap. Rebecca Henderson is Lesyle Headland’s real life wife, but Vernestra has a face I want to slap. Maybe because she’s green and bald. Doesn’t have a trustworthy face.
I saw one Redditor thinks it’s Indara and that she didn’t really die after that opening scene. That she’s the Master. BTW, Manny Jacinto is listed at 5’11 while both Carrie-Anne Moss and Rebecca Henderson are both listed at 5’9. If Trinity is the Sith Lord all along after we all thought she died in the first episode would be quite hilarious. 😂 She could survive that small knife wound if Reva and Sabine can survive lightsaber cuts through their bodies.
Let’s say Qimir is Smilo Ren and is the acolyte. He’s using Mae to perform his last test of killing a Jedi without a weapon. That’s why he was in such a rush for Mae to get to Kelnacca. But he killed Kelnacca with a lightsaber. He’s not passing his final test. Mae didn’t technically kill Torbin. He chose death. The poison could be considered a weapon or not but he chose to die. Mae didn’t kill him. I don’t understand Qimir revealing himself against 8 Jedis when he could’ve just left the scene if he knew Mae had a change of heart and was going to rat on him.
I do agree with Star Wars Meg that The Acolyte should’ve dropped all episodes entirely ala Stranger Things. I grew up watching LOST (2004-2010) years before The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones, so I can understand the frustrations waiting a week to find out what happens next. A new generation may not have the patience for a mystery show dropping one episode per week.
It’s actually quite unfair to judge The Acolyte because we are essentially looking at a puzzle 🧩 with missing pieces to the big picture. It would be like judging only the first half of Knives Out, Glass Onion, Death on the Nile, Clue, or any Scooby-Doo episode before we get to the final reveal. The Acolyte is basically a *whodunit* series. I’m not saying it’s great but it is quite unfair to judge it knowing it’s hiding a lot of things from the viewers.
Alex from The Angry Joe Show said the one who killed Kelnacca was Bazil. I know he said it in jest but it was quite peculiar to see Bazil right before Mae found Kelnacca dead. He was not seen for most of that episode. Then we finally see him, Mae finds out Kelnacca is dead. We definitely got robbed not seeing Kelnacca not getting into a fight. What a jip! We get excited seeing a Wookiee Jedi after Ep 2 and we still didn’t get to see him fight for his life using a lightsaber. 🤦🏻 So wrong.
The show does look quite cheap. Now where they filmed Khofar was somewhere in Madeira, Portugal. It was quite beautiful but then there are certain scenes to this show that looks bland and cheap. I don’t feel the immersion from it. Coruscant looks bland to me. It looks like a ghost town and it’s only 100 years before TPM. Where’s all the flying ships and tall skyscrapers surrounding the Jedi Temple? A hundred years difference is not going to make Coruscant look that bland and dead.
The Acolyte costs $180M when it looks worse than Ahsoka at $105M. Heck, worse than Godzilla Minus One at only $15M. House of the Dragon revealed it’s first episode from Season 2 and that episode at around $20M looks 10x better than The Acolyte. Ahsoka used tons of Volume but I consider it the 2nd best looking among the SW Disney+ series behind Andor ($250M). Some shots in The Acolyte looks like something out of a Star Trek TV series.
I don’t agree with Meg’s opinion from yesterday that the Star Wars Prequels looks far better than the Disney+ series. Only Revenge of the Sith still looks decent today but The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones have showed their age after 22-25 years. Check TPM’s scene between the Gungans vs. Droid Army. Very little green texture. Then AOTC’s Battle of Geonosis looks even more awful to me now than it did in 2002.
The SW Disney+ looks better to me because it is mixing real location, Volume, and green/blue screens while the Prequels relied on most of the latter although I did visit The Plaza de España in Seville, Spain. It’s the scene when Anakin is holding Padmé’s luggages in AOTC. That was one of the biggest complaints of the Prequels. Most of the backgrounds didn’t feel real. It was like the actors were put in an animated movie or some video game from the PlayStation 3 era.
Episode 5 Predictions?
The obvious one is 5 of those 8 Jedis not named Sol, Yord, and Jecki will be redshirted and should be killed right away from Smilo Ren. But what happens then? Call me Chato predicts Sol will be captured and it becomes a rescue mission for Mae and Osha. Or what if Osha is captured and it’s a rescue mission for Sol, Mae, Yord, and Jecki? Or if it’s called Night, Sol (meaning Sun ☀️) dies in it?
Smilo didn’t kill Osha but Smilo seemed to toss her away pretty easily with the Force. I think Smilo is going to use her to turn. Maybe that’s why the reveal. Since Episode 4 left us with a major cliffhanger, I think Episode 5’s viewership is going to spike up. As bad as The Acolyte has been, people are still curious who is Smilo Ren and who really killed the lesbian witch coven that we didn’t see in the previous flashback episode since we only saw it from Osha’s perspective. What are the Jedi hiding? Why did Torbin feel so guilty?
My money is on Vernestra but I think it’s 90% Qimir. But I want to bet on a longshot. Everyone was dead wrong on Marrok last year. Vernestra is still a fairly new character from the comics/novels. If it’s her, I don’t think fans would get too mad. Now the person who killed the witch coven may not be Smilo Ren. That could be a different character. Manny Jacinto is 38-years-old. But his character might be younger in this series and might be too young to commit killing the witch coven.
Smilo Ren?
90% Qimir
2% Vernestra
2% Koril
2% Aniseya
2% Indara
1% Sol’s evil twin
1% Bazil
Here’s Vernestra’s convo with Sol. A way of trying to throw us off?
Vernestra: I fear Mae is only a small part of her Master’s larger plan. A plan that is difficult to see. Some sort of shift. Something to tip the scales.
Vernestra might be the Master and Qimir is Smilo Ren as either the Acolyte or her Apprentice. Episode 5 titled, Night, might be the banger episode we’ve been waiting for! Or it could still stink it up as usual….
What if the last four episodes kicks some serious ass? That’s quite a shift from hating it to loving it. From worst to best in a hurry. It’s like the Prequels, GameCube, and Kobe Bryant during their prime. Hated back in the day but beloved now from a generation who grew up on them.
I’m 37 and honestly thought you were in your 20s or early 30s. Your voice is just very youthful I guess.
The one thing that I really enjoy so far is Sol, I feel like he is a kind of Qui-Gon figure who really wants to do what is right regardless of the code
The mental gymnastics people are going through to say this isn't a problem is baffling.
00:50
This really kills me, because I discovered SW in 97 when I was 5 ! And when The Phantom Menace came out, I had already watch the OT a dozen of time and knew them by heart. I could have quoted 50% of the movies.
Yet I'm not an OT fan... I'm a prequel fan in the eyes of most "real" fans. ^^
Big congrats to Amandla Stenberg who just officially finished the franchise off by calling all of the critics and haters “white racists” in her new music video. Man, Lucasfilm has turned into a complete dumpster fire. That fan score is going to get below 10% now.
I would add to the fall of the audience score but I just don’t care that much anymore.
Oh they just keep doubling down don't they?
I am not white and have criticized the show. I feel she's excluding me from the hater group 😞
Actually she wasn’t talking about the Acolyte, she was talking about people taking the Trevor Noah interview out of context.
pls tell me where exactly she called "everyone who doesnt like the show" "white racists"
I just want to say thanks for your really balanced manner of sharing your opinions and facts. Too often people on both sides of liking or disliking Disney SW it just turns into a really negative slog. You are honest with your thoughts and don't hold back punches where it is deserved, but you do give a fair stand to the other side it feels. Maybe I am biased since I generally agree with you on the various projects and their quality (and my enjoyment of them), but it feels like I'm genuinely hearing about things that I dislike in a way that isn't just out to destroy it for the sake of generating negative press or to burn down SW for it.
Nothing in the prequels break the OT lore. It is only added to. People might not like the additions but George was consistent.
At most its that Leia claims to remember her own mother in 6 which doesn't seem possible after 3.
There's also Obi-Wan stating that he was trained by Yoda in the same way he would go on to train Anakin, which implies that Yoda was Obi-Wan's master and not Qui-Gon
@@HMMadsenYoda did trained him as a youngling. It wasn’t said it was just like Anakin.
@@ahnok2855 I guess that's fair to bring up but Leia did say it was only images and feelings. All of that could have been and probably was her just projecting, because her foster family never gave her the full story. They only told her she died when she was young. They didnt give her the full story for the obvious reasons. So she was giving Luke the story that was told to her.
@@ahnok2855 And that, lore-wise, can be explained by force vision (through the Fporce you will see old frinds, long gone) or force memory, or Leia talking about her adopive mother.
Kelnacca had one of the symbols of the Witches in his ship. It might be that he was harboring a surviver or someone with close ties to them, and they betrayed him after learning the Jedi arts from him and releasing that Mae wouldn’t be finishing him as was her assignment.
Honestly, my opinion is that if you claim to like something but can't say why beyond "I like it," you might not actually like that thing very much.
It reminds me of those The Last Jedi debates that Mauler had where by the end most people would say "Well, yeah, the movie isn't great," and at some point during the debates the people would say something like "STOP TREATING ME LIKE A STAR WARS FANBOY THAT CAN'T THINK FOR THEMSELVES, I HAVE ISSUES WITH THIS MOVIE TOO!!"
Like, I'd be embarrassed to like The Acolyte, not only because popular TH-camrs as high as Jeremy Jahns and Pengunz0 are saying it's awful, but because it's obvious that it is poorly-written with bad acting and bad-looking sets and VFX.
If you like it... dude, I know you're supposed to say "Cool, you do you, like what you want," but I think in this case that should be followed up with "WHY do you like it? You can't just say that and not give any reasons at all, because generic things like 'the acting is decent' don't really apply in the same way they do for other 'bad' shows."
Popular youtubers, also known as lazy fucks who do nothing on their own but make money off other people's work and catering to the dumbest common denominator.
Hey Thor... I think one reason why QuiGon suspected a Sith is because of Maul igniting his lightsaber. At this point in the story, as far as Ki Adi Mundi is concerned, he's just seen a force-user who is fighting with knives, force pushes, and martial arts. No reason to suspect a Sith lord at this point. And as he is not present when this potential Sith ignites his saber, we do not yet know what else Mundi knows. We need more info that will likely come in a future episode.
There was a lot of hubris in that conference room with one master saying she's fast but weak, Mundi saying there's still some skill, and Sol saying that she's undisciplined... And Mundi has certainly show to be full of hubris since the prequels and clone wars... I don't put it past him to simply refuse to see what's going on.
Been seeing more and more comparisons with Andor as time moves on due use it as a benchmark for quality.
While you can technically watch Andor without Star Wars knowledge, it gives back to the franchise both in writing quality and what it adds to contextualize the Empire. It answers why the Empire should truly be feared, and why oppressed communities (like the one on Ferrix by the end) would resonate to Luke Skywalker and see him as an almost messianic figure. It helps enhance the canon without disrupting it.
I feel like the biggest crime the Acolyte does as a SWfan is that it takes away far too much from the canon lore. I have no idea why you would include Ki-Adi-Mundi or implications of a cover-up in order to maintain their "political" image. I mean, we don't even see in the show what repercussions that would actually entail. The show does not exhibit why this would be such an integral problem to the Jedi so much so that they would WILLINGLY cover-up Sith appearances. Even the prequels contextualized the Council's oversights and flaws far better with the inclusion of Palpatine.
yeah but Andor wasn't Star Wars.. it was just random Space Sci-Fi
Star Wars needs BOTH intelligent writing AND cool stuff (lightsabers, the force, space battles) to really get the majority fans to buy in
People can like Andor all they want.. but it had bad numbers and is kind of just objetively bad for Star Wars.. it really split the fanbase
@@Aetoski I respect your take but I completely disagree with this as someone whose a fan of the EU (books, games, etc.) Not everything has to be contextualized from the perspective of the jedi. Andor took strides to give you the perspective of the commonfolk. It's why Stormtroopers were allowed to be horrifying, brutal, and cold once more instead of the complete jokes they are when near anything that's force-sensitive. Andor took time to establish how worlds were brought into compliance, how they divided native groups to make them more easier to control, etc. They even made clear delineations between a planetary police force and the stormtroopers that are brought in to mop up rebels, which helped illustrate the scale to which even a small Empire controlled settlement is governed under stringent hierarchies. The show reminded me of the Imperial Agent plotline in The Old Republic, and I loved it for how much it added to the universe.
@@AetoskiThen the fanbase deserves Kenobi as its everything they wanted.
P.S. I don't think theres anything wrong with liking it... i think it was bad for the brand
@@derektodd6650 i am a fan of the EU too. I still think Andor was bad for the brand overall... and honestly it could have done ALL the things it did, but be faster and appeal to a wider fan base at the same time.
Evil tends to change names and trappings throughout history, but it's very consistent in it's behavior and goals. That's one of the reasons it's so deceptive and dangerous, and perhaps the key reason to be aware of history. (Seriously, it's shocking how much the present mirrors ages past.)
ki adi mundi should not even be in the acolytes or born during this time. They have to be trolling people at this point. There’s just no way. Maybe they got ki adi mundi confused with other character. Now we have people saying that BBY is not only not canon since Disney has own the franchise, but it was never canon in Star Wars at all. You literally can’t this shit up. Someone also said that we don’t know ki adi mundi age at all in canon. I heard someone went back and changed ki adi mundi date of birth when he was actually born, though I’m not sure if that’s true or not. ki adi mundi be gaslighting the council for years now.
It is canon that jedi manage to remain active until extreme old age, medical technology in star wars is a lot more advanced and the life expectancy of his species has neve been stated on screen . I mean there there has been a real life human that reached 122 .
@markusbarten455 His species is short lived. This takes place 80 years before PM.
Ki Adi Mundi was born 93 BBY, or 40-39 years before the episode (132 BBY), maybe he is a time traveler!
@@TzarBomb Oh it was about birthdays and not lifespans.
I've been watching out of morbid curiosity for a while. The Last Jedi extinguished my passion, and The Book of Boba Fett made me completely cold to any changes and live-action Disney fan fiction shows.
But The Acolyte is a special show. The human who supervised the AI scripting this show has the rare talent to make me care again. I get pissed, and I don't even know why. I get notifications for the episodes, and it's physically painful. I never leave comments, but now I have this stupid theory about the Jedi taking the wrong sister in the "real" version of events at the cult monastery. OSHA is the psycho from the start, being weak in the Force, and Rick James was the hero from the beginning. It is so Headland's style. The baby Vader is "Green Karen" (I hope), and Mundi killed her, so he is the "liar" and "bad" from the start. I can imagine Lesley talking about this to ChatGPT and filming The Acolyte for $4 on an old abandoned set for a failed "Bambi live-action" movie. That whole frustrating show is just a big "hush money"/money laundering situation, turning everyone into a "wtf" state.
Sorry for that brain fart. Awesome job keeping up with this "thing."
All arguments that the very appearance of a dark side user should scream Sith to the Jedi...Destroyed by the Clone Wars and the Witches of Dantomir who existed before the Clone Wars and the Jedi know about them.
Qui Gon, frankly, in the context of the wider universe, looks like he's making a mountain out of a molehill
Nightsisters don’t use the force the same way Jedi do or use lightsabers.
@@emberfist8347 Nightsisters use magic not the force
The Jedi Council knew of the Nightsisters existence. It's not like they were some unknown force user.
Plus, they used "Magicks" not the Force.
It's about the training. A Nightsister isn't going toe to toe with a Jedi Master like Maul did. Nor is just any dark side user going to go toe to toe with a half dozen Jedi like we just saw in The Acolyte.
Hey Thor, curious about your take on my prediction…I’m thinking the writers are going to reveal the mysterious dark sider to be Abeloth. The helmet has similar teeth to those I’ve seen in pictures of her. But my primary reason for the prediction is because she’s been setup as the bringer of chaos…and this has been a chaotic story thus far!
Now if a dark sider with a red saber attacks Jedi, it doesn't necessarily mean that dark sider is a Sith, as a Sith is a specific order, not just anyone that uses the dark side. However, Mundi, seemed rather insistent that it could not happen at all, that any dark sider would show up and attack a Jedi, as if a dark sider trained in the Jedi arts were pretty much unheard of for eons.
It's not the red lightsaber that gives them away as a Sith, but the very clearly evil helmet, which isn't very conspicuous for an organization that is supposed to be hiding in plain sight.
To the one guy that said the one chick already established character from the High Republic books not being the same person in the show...
I mean, bro, have you been paying attention? Disney doesn't care about the canon.
Ki Adi Mundi would like to say hello.
Plus, either Poe or Fin saw flying troopers in the canon books way before Ep9, yet for a throw away joke, "They Fly Now?"
And many, many more.
People think the age thing is the big issue but it's not.
It's the fact that this show cannot exist in the same universe as Lucas Star Wars.
The Jedi would still be on high alert after the events of the first 4 episodes of this show. It's less than a hundred years later.
It did change timeline wise. The disconnect is continuing on.
@@mazkeraid4039 True but it's kinda minor compared to everything else. Cannot wait to see what they break in the next episode.
Couldn't agree more with Andor. It's the BEST.
The Acolyte's writer recently posted a potentially informative reply on twitter (I wish I had the link). In response to a question about why they had made Ki-Adi Mundi either a liar or a fool during Phantom Menace, she replied that he had been unaware of any Sith existing in the relevant time period. This creates four possible fates for Mundi by the end of the show, as far as I can see:
1) He gets mind-wiped. Somehow, someone learned how to do that.
2) At least one antagonist turns out to be a disguised Jedi and no one finds out about any Sith.
3) Everyone involved in the investigation is killed/turned and Mundi is never given the evidence.
4) I had a fourth but someone rang before I finished and suddenly I've forgotten so sod it.
None of these seems very narratively impressive but at least they would seem to largely avoid further defaming and smearing the Jedi, which has been my main problem with the series.
Mundi might be Palpatine’s Masters Master in canon tbh, Mundi could be the Sith
Mundi:
* tries to say the Sith don't exist
* Dooku is a great guy
* Is the first to suggest Ahsoka be put on Trial, announces her verdict, is the first to alienate her from the Order which Mace then echoes
* Tries to shake the Order's faith in Yoda, and Yoda's faith in himself, has stunning insight into a Sith ritual of Palpatine’s that even Dooku has no knowledge of
* Brings up Kashyyyk
* Is the first to suggest Kenobi be sent after Grievous
* Is behind the Jedi plot to take over the Republic
If this is indeed an idea stemming back to Lucas worlds and TCW then it would make sense that Mundi is the one put there despite him being the very one who talks about the Sith being gone, he’s in on it and a secret master or apprentice kinda like Syfo Dyas
Mundi is the Sith
You are correct. Mundi’s line is important! It’s why the Jedi were so ignorant and arrogant throughout the entire prequel trilogy. Why they ignored Qui-Gon, and why they didn’t realize that a literal Sith Lord had the most powerful position in their government until it was too late.
Mundi was the prime example of the modern Jedi who overconfidently believed he and many of his peers were untouchable. With the sith defeated and not seen for a long time, the mindset the council had was that being cautious or open-minded was unnecessary.
Like your video. Enjoyed your speculating on what is happening in the series. I can not say I am disliking the series for I am such a star wars fan. But, I am troubled by what seems to be "changes" in the star wars lore.
Well that puts it in perspective, i was just about 14 when TPM came out, so Thor is seven years older than I am.
I had somebody come out of the woodwork the other day to nitpick me saying "presumed sith" while talking about the Ki Adi scene. I was like... yeah from the audience's perspective. They're clearly positing this mystery spoooky figure to be a Sith.
That reminds me, I had a theory discussing this. They can explain this whole Sith debacle away by the dude being an old school Knight of Ren, if they existed that far back in time. Think about it, from what we've seen in canon they're dark siders, don't all use lightsabers aside from "Ren", aren't Sith, and are pretty rag-tag. Makes sense with Mae and uh Qimir I think.
I don't like it, but it's a way for them to pigeon hole this shit into the canon. You're on point with your saying "oh yeah it was just some dark side cult, definitely not Sith". That wouldn't fly with me in-universe. But then again what do us fans know about the IP? Apparently nothing, according to the media.
The Vernestra thing is simple really. The actress is Leslye's wife if I recall correctly, she's not good at acting. They also don't care about established canon either, so it makes sense show Vernestra is different than the book version.
I can’t wait for all the mystery boxes to get resolved in the last 20 minutes of the final episode………. /s
It's a good shows it doesn't have to be perfect. People need ot grow up and adjust this is better than nothing.
I love your channel, your explanation, your opinions. Keep up the good job ;)
Im definitely one of those types of fans that think Sith and darksider are totally different things, Like the witches believe they are working in the middle anyways so them working together makes since right? i mean the nightsisters do the same and they are darksiders who arnt sith. Maybe because ive played Swtor for like 12 years so my veiw of sith and jedi are different
OK, you are five years younger then Iam. Perfectly illustrated in your measured responses. Only a Sith sees things in absolutes!
I absolutely respect your perspective and love your analysis. I usually agree with you too. Here, we differ. I'm enjoying The Acolyte.
The internet is on fire with this show. I think it's actually more devisive than the Sequels.
Hey thor, so I've always enjoyed your discussions about the force and the darkside in particular, and so I have a question regarding it. Is the darkside something that exists all on its own, or is it merely a result of force users bending the force to their will? And how would you explain things like a darkside nexus or places very strong with the darkside? Could the darkside have its own "will" similar to what we learn about the force in the prequels? Big fan of your videos, keep up the good work.
but but! you sound so youthful!
Great vid. Explains everything perfectly.
Thor, I believe having living Force users (good, bad or ugly) being able to link their abilities in a way to grant another Force user more power to alter reality ("use the Force") is the most damaging thing to come out of this series thus far. It actually breaks the original trilogy and prequals irreparably. If the Force can be used this way, the Jedi Council would have been doing these rituals to enhance Yoda's ability to use the force to grand scales. There would have been massive rituals of Jedi, their padawans and initiates combining to do amazing things. Even on the smaller scale, apprentices would be seen adding to their master's abilities.
On the dark side, we would have seen the Emperor adding his considerable power to Vader to protect the Death Star from Luke... and even before that, the Sith Lords simply combining their strength using psychometry to easily hunt down Obi-wan and Yoda with "That is the system. And I am sure Skywalker is with them." By adding ritualistic magic that allows Force users to alter reality with greater strength, the Acolyte destroys the internal logic of how the Force has been used in Star Wars.
Here's a "What If?" scenario for you. Before I to that though, I think people need to realize the very limited input that Filoni actually had in the development of The Acolyte. He was able to advise, but he was not the Chief Creative Officer during it's development. This series is the product of Headland who was relying on Pablo Hidalgo and the Story Group.
With that understanding, what if Filoni was secretly able to "guide" Headland into structuring The Acolyte in a way that would render almost everything that we think we know of the shows as null and void.
If Filoni has not done what I suspect then I have developed a fix that gives Lucasfilm an EASY retcon to deploy to salvage this situation.
Let's start with what The Acolyte has presented out so far...
• Set ~100 years before the events of Phantom Menace
• A cult of witches who are hiding from the Galaxy
• These witches don't use the Magik version of the Force like the Witches of Dathomir
• They view their source of power as self centered "Threads" that they equate to using the Force when they "pull" on the Threads
• One of the uses of the Thread is the very definite Dark side ability of Possession
There is a rumor/leak that The Force is going to be revealed as a female entity at some point during the show. That has not manifested yet, but it still could be a reveal AND amusingly it won't break canon if what I suspect is true. Stick with me here.
Suspected Filoni Plan/fix
What if the Acolyte witches are not directly using The Force, but are indeed pulling at "Threads" of a female Force entity? Not that the female entity IS the Force, but instead is an exceptionally strong entity that allows the Witches to tap into her for their selfish use of power. An entity reaching out with her Force ability that the Witches perceive as Threads.
If your not quite catching what I'm implying yet, what if the Witches have become unwittingly enthralled by none other than Abeloth, believing her to be the Force itself.
When not imprisoned Abeloth is, among other things, able to share her essence across multiple bodies simultaneously across the universe, influence the minds of others from across the universe, and uses possession on even the strongest of minds. I think in The Acolyte what we may be seeing is Abeloth reaching out from her prison using Force “Threads" and deceiving the Witches, granting them some of her Force strengths while she acts through them from her limited position.
Potentially this could even explain Torbin's very un-Jedi like behavior that leads to him taking his own life. When he was possessed by the Witches he was actually subjugated by Abeloth being channeled into him. Over the next 16 years she never fully released him from her influence leaving a madness within him that the decade of meditation couldn't remove.
The last bit of evidence or really odd coincidence that can be used to buffer the fix is the unrevealed Dark Side user, "The Master" giving Mae her directives.
Look at the design of The Master's helmet. (Fix the URLs by replacing "DOT" with an actual ".")
legendary-digital-network-assets.s3.amazonawsDOTcom/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/04123551/The-Acolyte-Star-Wars-The-Master-Sith-Lord.jpeg
legendary-digital-network-assets.s3.amazonawsDOTcom/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/06061949/who-is-the-acolytes-mysterious-villain.jpg
Now compare it to the depictions of Abeloth. Note also the tendril manifestations that the Witches could potentially have perceived as "threadlike" in a more abstract mental connection.
static.wikia.nocookieDOTnet/villains/images/f/f9/AbelothArt.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20200512144006
static.wikia.nocookieDOTnet/villains/images/b/b7/Abeloth.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120816025310
Depending on who The Master actually turns out to be (my bet is on one of the mothers), they could be the Acolyte of Abeloth rather than a Sith.
As I said, if Filoni has quietly implemented Abeloth as the hidden reason for everything Headland tried to implant within The Acolyte, I say bravo!
If this is not Filoni's plan then all I can say is, someone, please, for the love of all things Star Wars, get this idea to him.
I do agree with everything you said, however I do feel they gonna say they were not sent so that will be there out
The thing with the Sith is that they were born out of Dark Jedi. Without an actual Sith Order functioning, any Dark Jedi is really just a prequel to a resurgant Sith, with or without their culture. To the Jedi, any Dark Jedi training apprentices would lead to a new version of the Sith, which would count for "seeing signs of the Sith returning".
True. Both Exar Kun and Darth Revan functionally rebooted the Sith from extinction already as Dark Jedi.
Nevermind that Vitiate was still out there somewhere, Revan's order was very much its own incarnation.
Best Characters From The Acolyte
1. Smilo Ren/Qimir
2. Sol
3. Aniseya
4. Mae (older)
5. Osha
6. Yord
Charlie from Emergency Awesome is correct. Yord is comparable to Syril in Andor. Uptight and always plays by the book. I don’t care for Osha and Jecki’s lesbian romance. So to differentiate Mae from Osha, Amandla wears similar wigs but Osha’s hair is shorter. Mae’s hair is shorter at the front but longer in the back. Or they can use one wig and attach extensions on the back for Mae’s hair.
Almost every male SW fan wants a character who looks like a badass and wants him to use a lightsaber like a badass which includes a man child like Star Wars Theory who wants Revenge of the Sith be redone 100 more times. Male SW fans were jizzing who Marrok would turn out to be. That’s all male SW fans wants. They want lightsaber duels and the character looks cool doing it. Usually a white person like Hayden and they want him to twirl a lightsaber like *Carly* *King* and Ray Park. Carly King is loving The Acolyte. Let’s not hate her for enjoying it.
*Sister* *Sage:* Ryan is the first natural-born superhero. And his brand needs to reflect that. He’s not one of Vought’s lab rat freaks. He was chosen - by fate, God, whatever- to be the one who saves the world.
*Homelander:* Yes. But let’s not forget why he is special. Shall we? He’s my son. Chosen by God, sure, but, uh… made by me.
*Sister* *Sage:* The chosen one narrative only works if he stands alone. Harry Potter. Neo. Luke Skywalker. Hollywood’s trained people to fall in love with *white* *boy* *lone* *saviors.* So, America will want to fall in love with Ryan.
Technically, Luke isn’t the Chosen One but he was the reason why Anakin killed Palpatine (or supposedly if you ignore Episode IX). All this bring balance to the Force is a bunch of mumbo jumbo. That explanation of the Force needing light and dark is so vague and esoteric. To me, Luke was the hero of the Original Trilogy because he could’ve killed his dad but he chose not to. Or you can argue Vader pulled back but *love* from a father and son was the real hero of the OG Trilogy.
Whining about lore breaking….
They showed fire in space!
Mae & Osha undermines Anakin’s birth!
Ki-Adi-Mundi broke TPM’s canon!
Google search Star Wars plot holes from Yoda training Obi-Wan and not Qui-Gon to Leia seeing her dead mother to having complete amnesia for C-3PO and R2-D2. Why did Obi-Wan take 3 years to send Luke to Yoda? How come the Millennium Falcon wasn’t properly scanned? Vader can’t sense that’s his daughter he’s torturing and had captured twice? Why did Yoda give up so easily in ROTS when he already had the higher ground on Sidious? Why did it take a year to rescue Han from Jabba’s palace?
It’s George Lucas making up stuff along the way. George has broke his own canon by adding characters that weren’t there. Ahsoka was the biggest unnecessary addition and Dave Filoni sure loves his baby girl, his waifu. Anakin wasn’t ranked Master yet and he still had his own padawan. She’s basically Rey before Rey. The closest to having live action Mara Jade. Ahsoka was hated early on. Then The Clone Wars got better and now she’s even more beloved than Leia and Padmé.
Star Wars is not high art. There’s going to be bozo writing like how Jar Jar keeps getting promoted for higher government jobs. Or how Obi-Wan changes his first name to Ben but keeps his last name and hides Vader’s son in Anakin’s home planet with Ani’s own stepbrother and wife while Luke still uses the same last name. So much inconsistencies in the writing dating back to A New Hope.
Star Wars is not coming from Coppola, Scorsese, or Nolan. It’s not Oppenheimer. Treat it like the next Jurassic movie. High expectations is why Star Wars gets judged so harshly compared to something like Star Trek when all Star Wars is involves space monks/samurais with telekinesis and laser swords.
Hey Thor,
have you heard of the "Were-Sith" theory (as in Werewolf) already?
The idea is that Qimir is actually the host of a possessed Sith artifact (i.e. the Master's Helmet) akin to what happened with Darth Momin in the Vader Comics. Maybe the ancient Sith takes over after sunset, which is why Qimir seems to be constantly checking the position of the sun in the 4th episode. That could also explain Qimir's "deal with/debt to the Master" and his relation to both him & Mae. He's so curious and frankly "sus" all the time, because he is the Master, but not really.
Furthermore, Ki-Adi-Mundi's line about the Sith being extinct for a millennium would be literally true, although not in practice.
What do you think?
Personally, I still bank on Vernestra Rwoh being the culprit...
By introducing The Thread, but not giving it context is a Mystery Box. Just as adding a Red Saber into the story is a Mystery Box, given that it has implied meaning / consequences. If they make Mae a host of a former Sith Ghost/Spirit ... that somehow fits the contrived situation of explaining the events as seen i.e. they are using the Thread of power from a greater Sith to fuel their rituals.
Mystery Box storytelling in small doses is fine, but it only works if you reveal the mystery eventually.
The problem of trying to explain The Acolyte (as seen so far) is... there's a lot of dumb things that the EU has added in the past that Disney could have recycled or inserted into the story to explain events. It's difficult to know if they plan to tell the story, or if they plan to throw mystery boxes until people stop complaining. After all, money is what determines success, not ethics or responsibility.
As seen with Modern Disney... Adding Mystery Boxes can replace talent or skill. Enough Mystery makes people think it's clever and satisfying content. So, it is not beyond the current administration to simply use the EU as a grab-bag for story elements it wants to recycle, out of the context of the story it was being used in. e.g. Force Healing and the Dyad.
We also have story from the Old Republic with Force Spirits and possession as seen with Sheev and the unresolved/unexplained story of Snoke, the Clones, the planet full of worshippers, or how so many ISD's were 'buried' under the surface in The Rise of Skywalker/Palpatine. i.e. At the end of TROS, Palpatine's Daughter/Granddaughter won. The Skywalker's are all dead. Hurray ?
Everyone jumping to Sith is inevitable, because the only reference to Maul/Palpatine is Sith. But ... this isn't guaranteed.
Filoni avoided this by introducing Ahsoka which has Dark Jedi / Grey Jedi, who were ... mercenaries. Or something.
Also, Witches of Dathomir, or Something else/Other as a Mystery Box.
And the Others / Father, Daughter, Son elements of The Force that have somehow been resurrected with Ahsoka's ending resurrecting the Mystery Box that is the Father/Son/Daughter paradox / Gods.
Sith is a very specific thing, Sith and other dark side users draw on different wells of power, Sith can be distinguished from regular dark side users because the power they use is different, they have a unique presence in the force, Sith draw from a well of power that includes the spirits of all the past Sith, you have to have the mastery In those areas to draw from those spirits, so being simply a dark sider is something difference, also I think Ki-Adi might definitely be part of the cover up, a couple of sources say his double brain give him more insight into dark energies, and if you notice he is ALWAYS the first person to talk about the dark side in both the Movies and TCW, he is the one every time
Hey Thor, I haven’t watch the alkylate but from what I’ve seen I have the suspicion that perhaps the Kylo Mask Teeth character might be an ancient dark side user who is the true origin of the what would be known as the Knights of Ren, Disney will do any thing to connect the Sequels, and Kylo wasn’t a Sith, just a dark side user.
Hey Thor.
Would making the villain a witch, like the night-witches of dathomir, explain the reason why the jedi never got worried until Qi-gon's encounter with Maul?
It seems plausible that the jedi wouldn't consider this lone witch a threat especially if he/she was the only one and that had gone rouge.
Hey Thor. What do you want to see and what do you expect in the last four episodes of the Acolyte? I'm seeing some moments that seem to break canon, and I'm not sure if those issues can be rectified.
I think ultimately we're going to find ourselves arguing with people who insist that the "balance" of the force means that there are "Gray Jedi."
Regarding Sith / not Sith, firstly it's clear by the producers that it's about the Sith and secondly it's clear by the use of the Sith code by Mae and Qymir
Ki-Adi-Mundi: Its a tragedy that we've lost two jedi, but nothing better happen to that wookiee.
inb4 the greatest universe split of all time; we’re getting hints of the cannon breaking maybe in a build up to show that this show (and possibly the sequels) is happening in a different universe 👀.
huffing major hopium, of course
Venestra is a substitute for Yoda and Mace. That's why they chose her. It rhymes.
What if Ki-Adi-Mundi is playing along and Venestra or Sol are "fallen jedi" but they cover it up because they can't have people thinking publicly that the Jedi are evil? That would make sense, especially if he's the one who catches them.
my guess is that there will be NO fight shown at all. it will show SOL, Yord, Jecki running slightly battered and brusied (maybe Sol and Jecki carrying a wounded Yord) and the twins together separately running off from the sith so they can carry on that storyline of one trying to kill the other and saying "You tried to kill me" then the other "YOU tried to KILL me" dialogue. All the token jedis in the back will simply die off screen