Finally - I got my hands on a MiSTer FPGA Retro Gaming Setup | MVG
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ม.ค. 2022
- After years of holding out, I finally got my hands on a complete MiSTer FPGA setup complete with Jammix IO add on board and ITX Case. Is FPGA retro gaming really any better than software emulation? And how much will it cost you? In this episode we answer these questions and more as we deep dive into the world of FPGA retro gaming with MiSTer
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#MiSTer #Gaming #FPGA - เกม
I'll admit im a total n00b when it comes to the MiSTer Project and FPGA, so if i missed anything or made an error somewhere please let me know. Have a great week!
Hi MVG, hope you will cover the zelda oot pc port soon when its finished
You have done the community proud :)
Ok bro
Do a video on raspberry pi gaming
I think you've done a good job ! There's a wide variety of expansion boards and console-like cases. I went for a Multisystem from RMC The Cave and absolutely love it !
Anyone interested in building a Mister, lease don't buy a DE10 nano at scalper prices. These will keep being made and you will be able to source one for sure as long as you have a bit of patience. Consider buying the add-ons you want instead while you wait
there are several legit sellers of prebuild systems aswell, you just need some patience since they are waiting (and getting) restocks.
been the same 1,5y ago
Order direct from Terasic! I did that, and paid retail, and $40 shipping, but, it came from Taiwan in under a week (3 days, if I remember right from placing the order)
I bought it directly from the factory, but between shipping and customs I paid around 300 euros. That's almost a scalper price (185 euros the board + 50 shipping + 64 of FedEx "customs")
This isnt the Framemeister where it uses legacy products, this uses current tech and just be patient they will be making more.
@@kaisersoymilk6912 can you link me to where you bought it
I used to work for Altera in the 00's. FPGA was generally too expensive for 'consumer' use then (top end FPGA's were around $4000 EACH at the time), but Altera's 'Cyclone' series FPGA (or our competitor Xilinx's 'Spartan') have changed that somewhat since and all of a sudden FPGA is a 'mainstream' technology. It's odd because I would be met with blank stares if I ever mentioned it to anyone at the time!
the reason the de10nano got affordable is because it got/gets heavily subvented by MS or Intel.
see the "intel university program" print in the board at around 2:45.
Wont complain though ;)
That's a wonderful insight. Personally, I didn't hear of FPGAs until very recently, and back then I was either a child, a teenager or a young adult depending on when in the 00's you worked for them. I'd definitely give you a blank stare if you told me, but I probably would've been excited back then if I knew what it was and how it worked, because it is a revolutionary piece of tech, especially for preservation of old hardware specs!
I met a band called Altera. I said wow, I load firmware on you every day. Used the cyclone many hundreds of times. Thanks!
Yea, same, we used them for programmable waveform generation and they were like 10,000 dollar radios, where most of the cost was the FPGA. This was also in the '00's. Times have changed, but I do believe this is an older (or smaller) Altera chip. Their latest and great ones are still pretty expensive I believe (haven't dealt with FPGA's for quite some time so I'm out of the loop).
@@dadrising6464 They've also just gotten cheaper in general thanks to supply and demand cycles. Cyclone variants and clones are used in a wide variety of homebrew projects, the most important (hardware archival wise) besides the MiSTer itself being ODEs like Terraonion's MODE and the Dreamcast GDEmu clones.
The MiSTER shows how having a standard platform is important for software development, like the consoles for game devs. This remove tons of variability and enables the community to extract the maximum value from the platform. Kinda like the RK3326 for chinese handhelds.
Honestly they need to honour the people who put the work into these cores, so impressive.
Many devs have a pateron
I support a few on patreon! They are amazing people.
@@lukasperuzovic1429 Thanks for the info, I just got mine yesterday and was a little confused about a Patreon logo as I thought the payment covered the hardware. This makes sense though, I did pay for the hardware, but there's support needed for the software. Still, this is a lot less expensive and more convenient than my ever-growing collection of original hardware. And Mario looks damn good on my large TV.
Just the fact that this an open-source solution, this is miles better than any other similar solution out there.
Except uhhhh Retroarch
@@aprofondir retroarch and mister are two completely different beasts for completely different audiences. Also retroarch kinda sucks with their whole “engulf everything” philosophy
@@alfiegordon9013 And what about Mister cores hidden behind a patreon paywall ?
@@mrkirk4944 you must be new to emulation if people charging to access betas is upsetting to you.
@@aprofondir Retroarch is a bloated POS
I got my MiSTer last year and it was one my best purchases in years. Basically my complete gaming childhood stuffed in one box. Plus, all the machines I always wanted to have back then but couldn't afford. The Archimedes always was a dream, and now I got one in my little box. Just amazing. Also, using a modern optical mouse with the Amiga and the ST is fantastic. The MiSTer is also the first machine to really get the Atari 8bit computers sound right. Every emulator I tried so far always was a bit off. The MiSter is the first time I heard the intro to Alternate Reality like I remembered it from the real machine.
The one console I really miss is my Atari 2600.
I got that. Its called a pc.
@@an3582 Oh, you have a PC? That's amazing! Anything else you need to tell us? Do you have shoes as well?
@@an3582 and your pc uses emulation to play these games which isn't as accurate as the MiSTeR FPGA.
@@tyler6644 That's garbage. Software emulation has been around for decades now and is exactly what Mister is only in software and make no mistake that Mister IS emulation.
I've been wanting to get one for ages. I think this just pushed me over the edge.
I just got mine in December. It's seriously so, so worth it. It's like a Swiss army knife of retro games.
Pretty much all you need
I'm glad you enjoyed it! There are a few things you didn't cover that I think are noteworthy:
1. Dual output. You can run the analog and HDMI output simultaneously. My main setup has both a PVM and 4K TV, so it's convenient.
2. The 2P Gameboy cores. Being able to have a 1-on-1 in Gameboy Tetris or GBA Puyo Puyo this easily is great fun. Continuing on from #1, you can even set it to have one screen on analog output and the other on HDMI.
3. User IO. This is a massively important feature for me personally, because this combined with analog output allows me to use actual light guns for light gun games. Long story short, with the right adapters you can essentially plug a real NES zapper into the virtual NES core, hook it up to a CRT, and play Duck Hunt just like on a real NES. Of course you can use it with original controllers as well, but c'mon real light guns. Some computer cores let you use this port for MIDI and UART as well.
But yeah, my MiSTer will be a mainstay in my bag when I have game nights at my girlfriend's place.
great info, thank you - ill follow up with a future video when more cores become available
Simultaneous analog/ digital dual output, NICE! I thought I saw $3,000 on the screen at the beginning and thought "Figures given all that needs to be done. I'll wait 5 years and check back" but $500 is a great deal for what you get IMO. I would buy one now if I still had my collection of retro hardware (controllers and adapters)
Edit: Analog input too! Light gun games? I'm very interested.
@@ModernVintageGamer PLEASE do! 😃😃😃😃😃😃
your profile picture is cringe
" my girlfriend's place"
L O L
Great to see you truing out MiSTer and more coverage for the project! And even better to see you enjoyed it.
Good to see you here!
Nice to see some Multisystem representation :D
Yes more coverage for a scalpers item.
@@RetroJack Why ? He's just a bald-headed knob sack.
@Mr Kirk [Opens Coat] Psssst, wanna buy an AIO?
I like how much RMC contributes to the community, like his perpetual absence from the main groups and forums unless he's flogging his wares. Always crops up on popular TH-camr's channels/videos to congratulate them for spreading the word, looking for an opportunity to appear relevant as some kind of self-appointed project spokesperson.
More MiSTer sales = More AIO sales.
We have Sorg the father or the project who contributes enormous amounts of time and effort to the it.
We have all the developers big and small like Jotego, Nullobject, Srg320, and FPGAzumSpass to name but a few key developers who releases all their cores for free.
Then we have Neil, who peddles a proprietary board that is closed source and marketed like it is offering something new and exciting by having a Scart socket. Spolier: A simple cable from the VGA board terminated to Scart works a treat at 1/20th the cost.
The community's Crystal (Oscillator) Meth man..... c'mon kids ...buy my wares! ..... sell a kidney or steal from your grandmother. You NEED an RMC AIO...........
One thing that has been a game changer to me (and that Bob is leaning into with the new RetroNAS stuff) is the ability for the Mister to read ROMs from the network.
No need to buy a 1TB SD card or swap out TurboCD games every time you want to play a new one. Just stick all of them on a giant HDD, do a simple network share and your Mister can access all of them.
Personally, I'd rather plop in some storage. But I still like the option.
It's always been possible to use USB drives as well. I prefer the network myself since I have a NAS. The CIFS integration is incredible. It just all works, even if you have local ROMs on the SD.
I like to note the NAS CIFS solution is viable if you got multiple machines running the same roms, and preferably you are running actual copper and not Wifi. And they all don't have to be MiSTer Machines. You can have a Raspberry PI and a MiSTer running off the same NAS, RetroNAS allows for symbolic links so you can use the folder structure each machine expects.
It also works well with OPL for the PS2 and SD Loader with Swiss for the Game Cube.
If you can't run a ethernet cable to where you need it, or you got a portable setup you are taking away from home, then NAS isn't a good solution. Then again the 2nd best option to a NAS is a External USB storage device plugged into the MiSTer. MiSTer is limited to USB 2.0 so the Ethernet port actually has faster read/writes than USB. But its still much faster than reading/writing to that SD card.
Thank God I got my MiStEr years ago before the pandemic. Prices now are outrageous.
The picture quality of the output image and screen recording is amazing.
Good of Bob to send you that over to have a play with, it's in his character though isn't it. Always bringing cool stuff to the masses and shedding light of people's hard work. He is a top guy
Physically emulating hardware, I'd imagine this is the future of retro anything.
Edit: excuse me, "mimicking" hardware.
it was made for the industry and military to replace old chips
Its not emulating the hardware, it can be physically the same as the original chip on a signal level.
@@JohnAbrahamsen the only thing i dont understand is how then that demo he talks about has glitches, but it doesnt have on real hardware.
@@andrejrockshox The VHDL code for the chip is not exactly like the original :). The physical gates in the FPGA are made according to the VHDL code. If it is not 100% equal to the original you will get glitches.
@@andrejrockshox That is likely because the reverse engineering of the original architecture has not been done perfectly
Yay my Archie core got a bit of screentime :) 1:55
Admittedly the costs are inflated somewhat at the moment but even the top end cost equates to roughly to a Super NT and Mega SG combined. The value proposition for FPGA based equivalents is weighted so heavily towards the Mister 👌
If you can even find an Analogue console for sale. They do very limited runs of production
I found the MiSTer when I was looking at the Vampire for my Amiga,did the value proposition and bought a MiSTer setup. Has been awesome since.
@@CotyCondry That's a problem that's made its way to the MISTer scene now too as MVG alludes to. I nearly pulled the trigger on one last year and wish I had now as the whole setup could be had for about £300. Ironically, I managed to get both a SNT and MSG relatively easily without getting hosed.
@@sheep83 Hopefully it eases as chip shortages etc sort themselves out 🙏🏾
@@sheep83 Mister was easy to find until pretty much ever big tech tuber did a video on it in 2021, even just 6-8 months ago you could grab a DE-10 for under $200. I'm not complaining about this awesome project going more mainstream but that comes at the cost of it joining the scalp it or don't buy it club.
Arcade boards are probably the most crucial hardware that MiSTer covers. It's hard to get your hands on those and they take up a ton of space. I'm tempted to get one just to have an accessible way to play arcade games on a CRT at home. Next best thing would be using MAME on a Wii but that has some serious limitations imo
Why not mame on a pc? T
Powerful emulation pcs can be tiny nowadays
@@guyverjay1289 I imagine that the problem comes from getting 240p for a CRT in modern hardware.
MiSTer brought new life to my 20 year old Sony WEGA CRT. Arcade games look really cool on it imo. You can look on my channel if you want to see some games running on it.
@@guyverjay1289 not as accurate, though as Jotego keeps submitting info to improve MAME accuracy it can definitely get better over time. Accuracy isn’t their mission, combined with the inevitable timing differences introduced having an OS layer and a generic cpu doing it’s best to fake parallelism of the original hardware and it’s tough to get there 100%.
Mame on the Wii isn't very good. You'd be better off with Mame on a Raspberry Pi 4 now a days. It also supports composite and component cables.
MvG :) With the Amiga Demo issue and Plasma, I too experienced this with the BTS Demo. However, I found a fix for it. Most of the Amiga Demos were coded with PAL 50hz Machines in mind. When using an option to Force 50hz (the MegaAGS Pack I downloaded has a Force PAL Mode option in its Menu), the Real AGA Plasma of BTS worked fine :) If I ran it in the default setting which is NTSC 60hz, I exhibited similar glitches with the Plasma as you showed in this video.
I'm actually surprised he overlooked that. The Amiga was notorious for only being super-big in Europe.
The glitches look more like programmatic issues to me, i.e. a slight incompatibility between the original Amiga instruction set and the Mister instruction set.
As someone that has a working Amiga 1200 (Turbo) with OSSC and SCART RGB going to an HDMI screen (I'm working on getting it to output to a modded consumer TV - old 13" toshiba), Mister Amiga core is not that good. Speed wise and emulation wise. Have you tried games like Project X SE, or Amiga arcade type games? The lag kills the experience. USB controllers and HDMI screens lag too much after my extensive testing. In short. Real A1200 Turbo boots in 2 seconds with 16GB of games and software realy to play (MegaAGS2 disk images). Also the C64 core is really not that good. I have the original C64s and had A600, A1200, had NES, SNES, Atari 2600 many more. It's a pricey investment. For experimentation mostly still after 2 years of owning it. Many games just crash (on any core) and it's up to someone to research a game compatiibility list. I have mine hooked up to an HDMI screen and VGA multisync CRT at the same time, but it took a lot of messing around. I still get no video on many cores (Amiga 1200 for example can switch into video modes that no screen will sync with). More of a hobby thing. I still have trouble running Super Mario Bros (for famicom/nintendo 8bit). I keeps running too fast or too slow. It's called MiSTeR for Minimig which is an old FPGA project and ST for ATARI st which is an old FPGA project. I'd buy dedicated boards. The USB hub cuts out at times (I have an Alpha wireless USB connected to remotely manage it and update the cores instead of pulling the SD card all the time). Still a fun hobby, but it takes up a lot of time.
I'm scared to run this demos on MiStER or I might end up in 4th realiy. The timing on the music players is alll over the place because it only emulates close to a 68020, but not quite. Run sysinfo. th-cam.com/video/UGYCfBGRKJA/w-d-xo.html
So glad to see this covered here! This project has looked *hugely* promising for a while now, I'm so happy to see it growing like this and that it actually seems to live up to its promise!
It's sad this is getting so expensive. When I set mine up it was $140 for the board, 30 for the ram, and a $10 USB OTG hub. It runs all the cores and has perfect HDMI output. $700 is a super enthusiast build for sure but 300 for the base system is really a symptom for the chip storage.
This is what happens when you build a product around a loss leader hardware evaluation\learning board. They aren't meant for release projects and mass sales because they cause intel to lose money and intel will supply the cyclone V to profitable boards first. I have about 9 of those cyclone V's and I'm working on building a all in one unit that uses that FPGA BGA, adding a SDRAM slot on board, and all requisite outputs. So you don't need a de10-nano but just the chips and solder them on luckily the chips are somewhat more in stock albeit a little more expensive for the single part.
That has to be the coolest enclosure I've seen a MiSTer in so far.
Thanks for covering this! Just ordered a Jammix a few days back so I’m very stoked
Really great breakdown of the project and where its headed. Thank you for making this video!!!
As mentioned, with "one time" investment-it's a great collection/consolidation of hardware-capable of running 99 percent of the earliest video games known to man. With updates being pushed out, with playstation on the horizon, this is simply a no brainer for the generations that did or want to experience the history and inspirations behind today's games.
got mine a year ago.. didnt regret a second.
I've been a fan since the beginning. The MiSTer is cheaper than other FPGA consoles when you consider how much it can already emulate. I'm really looking forward more to the Saturn core than the PSX core as software emulation isn't good enough especially where input lag is concerned. The reason I got the MiSTer is that I'm sensitive to input lag. I know run ahead is a solution but it has its own issues. You can even set 1000 MHz polling rate for MiSTer which reduces USB lag even more to become negligible. I use a Sony Trinitron TV and a monitor with Freesync (MiSTer supports VRR [variable refresh rate]) to cut input lag to be like actual hardware.
I will be excited once we have a hardware based system capable of emulating 6th gen consoles with 99% compatibility. Even if it costs 1K, I will be one of the first people to buy it. However, for those that enjoy the older stuff this looking promising :)
@@Manic_Panic you will be waiting for a while. The DE-10 is heavily subsidized by Intel and actually worth at least $350 from its $160 retail price. As MVG mentioned there is heavy scalping of the Terasic DE-10. Take a look at the unsubsidized prices of FPGAs especially ones more powerful as they can cost in the thousands.
@@asimian8500 Yeah it's a shame that runahead doesn't work well on all the retroarch cores, as it's great when it does imo. And of course there are other latency-reducing options in cpu-based emulators too. You can get usb adapters for PC that force the motherboard to use 1000hz polling rate, so that is fixable also.
Well this will certainly help with the MiSTer's popularity! I jumped on this bandwagon nearly two years ago now and haven't looked back. It's been extremely convenient for recording, as well as flexible by allowing me to also play on CRTs. It's constantly improving/evolving too, which keeps things exciting. The thought of a fully working PS1 core is tantalizing to say the least.
One of my best purchases. Amazing bit of kit. Good choice of opening music!
So glad to see you finally cover the MiSTer! Glad you liked it!
I have to say that I have been quite impressed by the ease of installation, actually. It's a matter of burning the Mr Fusion image to an SD Card, connecting to the network and starting the update script. I have terrible experience with RPi devices that always take ages to bootup, have dodgy drivers and hardware support and end up swallowing many hours of my life in pure loss compiling modules and drivers in order to achieve what I wanted to achieve. I was honestly expecting the same kind of bullshit when I started to build mine one year ago, but it turned out great, installed without any hickup, boots in a few seconds and never bailed on me since then. It's true that it's not exactly a 100% plug and play solution (configuration can be finicky, for example, needing to manually edit config files) but it's still a great and easy to use everyday solution. It's a great alternative, with tremendous community support, to collecting real hardware, or more traditional software emulation methods if you're willing to pay a little bit and get just a little bit involve into setup and configuration.
YES! People don't talk enough about how the MiSTer takes just a few seconds to boot, and less than that to shut down. You can make a sandwich while RetroPi boots.
Great to see the MiSTer getting wider coverage. I’ve been using my MiSTer for over a year with just the Nano board, an OTG USB hub, a HDMI to VGA converter and the RAM expansion connected to a CRT VGA monitor. The 2x scale from 240p to 480p looks great on a CRT monitor. I think my setup cost $250 total since I was able to get the CRT for free off of Craigslist. With that you can use every core including any of the retro PC cores I’ve tried as long as you have a USB keyboard, mouse and a gamepad.
Your story is pretty much identical to mine. Hopefully they will get direct video working on the 486 core at some point. Overall I am SO so happy with my MiSTer.
It's great to see MiSTer getting wider coverage *when you already have one*.
On the other hand, when you've procrastinated about it for years, only to recently simultaneously (a) realise you really want one; and (b), that it's pretty much impossible to buy one now - what with Current & Foreseeable Future World 'o Normality, and all that - this just feels like another nail in the coffin! A very entertaining nail, I'll grant you.
you missed on mentioning those new scanlines/filters, they are INCREDIBLE
I think that alone would require it's own video to cover the topic
I feel this is just a surface/intro vid
Love the Olof Gustafsson music, great choice! And your video is as informative and entertaining as ever.
Damn, I'm glad I purchased two of them about 2 years ago when they were available for regular price. I agree with everything said. The Mister is pretty much my goto gaming device. Use it with a 27 inch Sony Wega and the results are amazing.
I bought the De10 Nano for only $100 USD back when the MiSTer project started about 3 years ago. The add-on RAM module was about $40 and the I/O board was about $50. So I was all in for under $200 back then, and I thought THAT was a lot! Today’s prices are insane.
The project has come so far in that time. Way back when, there was only a small handful of arcade cores, and you had to recompile your own cores from the individual roms for each game back then.
You got a deal. The DE10 was $130 on Amazon when I bought in late 2018.
@@flow221 I did! I just went back in my emails to see what the exact price was, and it was $110 from Arrow. I'd love to buy 10 at that price now!
Great video, as always. And I loved the concept of "hardware preservation" that you so eloquently posited. Perfection. 👏🏻👏🏻💪🏻💪🏻
This is some really impressive tech. It's truly amazing to see a hardware recreation like this that is so robust.
The arcade cores are the real huge draw for me, especially for some of the games that MAME hasn't perfectly replicated quite yet (particularly with sound reproduction). Definitely looking forward to getting in on the action, and to see boards like Namco System 1 be supported in the future.
Actually some of the arcade core improvements for the MiSTer even got backported to Mame. But I agree the MiSTer is much better than Mame performance.
I originally got it for consoles with the intention of saving space but I've been messing with the arcade cores with my fightstick over USB. I spent a good amount of my day just playing Tower of Druaga since the last time I did was on a Namco collection on PS1 as a kid lol
The Mister is hardly the go-to for accuracy. Take Donkey Kong, the walking sound is awful. Then you have sound issues on handhelds like Gameboy, GBA, etc..
MAME is a wonderful project but it has suffered a huge amount from most of it's documentation being done back in the 90s when people were simply interested in getting the games to run in the first place. It is a nightmarish amount of work to go back and complete what was started and it never looked like it was going to happen. Seeing the reverse engineering work being taken up again is inspiring. While the timing still isn't perfect for a lot of the arcade cores it's inspiring to hear old Konami games actually sound correct for once. I do hope the project doesn't go the way of MAME however and the timing gets ironed out eventually. "good enough" is not good enough for preservation!
@@mrkirk4944 Can confirm this. I own a DK cabinet and the sound is just wrong on Mister. Video wise it's perfect but the analogue circuitry for sound is way off. Mame is very very close to the original hardware here.
Mine is the 'board stack' with the analog board on top and the USB board underneath, costed about $450 two or three years ago. I enjoy playing around with it quite a bit, even built my own USB arcade controller with sanwa stick and buttons for when I play arcade cores.
I have never regretted selling my arcade cabinet more than this moment. The JAMMA harness addon is the coolest thing I've ever seen!!
Awesome to see a MiSTer video from another of my favorite youtube channels! It's a tough time for something like this with the shortages, but I hope folks that see this can keep perspective and not go the route of scalpers with their ludicrous prices. MVG has a ton of videos showing excellent ways to experience retro games via emulation, start there before you go looking at ebay. Prices and availability will return to normal and there are plenty of ways to experience these classics in a good way that should hold you over until the stock returns. Thanks for making this MVG.
MT-32 Pi hat also worth looking into and perhaps you buying. For MIDI sound on some compatible cores like X68000 and ao486.
The Mini-ITX Ironclad board is the next on my shopping list, as currently just have the plastic sandwich board and heaps of cables flooding out
The MiSTer project can never get enough coverage, so thank you for doing it. As we move into the future those original hardware cabinets are going to fail, and this is doing incredible preservation of software.
I was very interested to hear your take on it given your programming background :-)
This isn't just preservation of software... this is preservation of *HARDWARE!*
It's the true value of FPGAs, the ability to fully replicate the hardware so software can run natively.
As I've already said once, I hope one day we get an FPGA solution for more complex cores, especially the N64 Reality Co-processor. The PS3's PPE and SPEs may be out of reach for now, but the PS3 is a relatively recent console compared to PS1 and N64.
Fantastic editing MVG as thoroughly enjoyed the game play scenes as well as being very informative. ;)
MiSTer is awesome, trouble with old tech is it tends to break, and I still have many bits and pieces to fix up/ mod, this solves it all while I do it. For which I am truly thankful.
Exciting! I ordered a DE10 nano a month ago, which ostensibly should ship today. Just looked, and mouser's now showing 50 week lead time on orders.
Yikes. Almost a whole year!
I'm on the same boat
update: I contacted support. DE-10 didn't arrive at Mouser. Delayed sine die... Damn...
@@paulocorreia2024 Well crap. I actually bought one of those DE10 Nano self-balancing robots (P0582) before I realized they used a board with the JP1 20 pin connector soldered to the bottom of the DE10 rather than the top. I was hoping to avoid having to desolder that upside down connector and solder in a top-side header to get it to work with the SDRAM board, but I guess it's inevitable now. edit: Got a Samtec HTSW-120-09-G-D header which pokes out through both the top and bottom, so ideally I can use it as a MiSTer and a Robot... a MiSTer Robot.
edit2: 2x Terasic P0582 robots still available on Mouser if someone also feels up to my 20x pin desoldering challenge ;)
I hope one day I'll be able to afford a MiSTer; really seems to be the future of cycle-accurate emulation.
I was considering the MiSter for quite some time as the system to round out my collection with all the old computers I don't want to buy. Was always a bit held back by the price and the complexity of the build your own stack stuff.
But when RMC - The cave came out with their take on it, I immediately bought it. And it's excellent, I really like it. IO can take it to friends plug it into their modern HDMI TV set and just ask: "so what computer or console did you have as a kid?" and great times ensue.
I love the obscure nostalgia trips that end up in your videos, I absolutely love that you used to clip of David Braben's Zarch/Virus. Another outstanding game that was far ahead of its time!
And Matrimelee!!!
I've been most interested in the computers. I bought a Roland SC 55 and a pihat that replicates the Mt32. It's been a lot of fun to experience these computers in tiny form factor.
The MiSTer is endlessly fascinating!
Im glad you have highlighted the price. I have seen a number of reviews from TH-camrs who have had their MiSTer given to them who fail to mention the setup they are showcasing is very expensive.
Loved seeing some classics in the opening scenes: Last Ninja and Stunts
Thanks to Jotego, Darren, Furrtek, Blackwine, nullobject, atrac17 for bringing us most of the relevant arcade games (Capcom, Sega System16 (Jotego) Toaplan (Darren and Blackwine), Sega System 1/2 (MiSTerX,blackwine and atrac17), Furtek for the amazing Neogeo core and nullobject for the CAVE core. And its great to see these devs creating original cores. Ofcourse PSX, GBA fpgazumspass, SNES, PCECD, MegaCD - srg320. Alanswx porting DAR FPGA/ MiST cores. These are in my opinion the top devs.
I love the MiSTer. A full kit is expensive but as you mention can be bought in bits and upgraded over time. You can use original controllers and light guns on it if you get the SNAC add ons. I hardly touch my original SMS and Megadrive plus Mega SD/Sega CD anymore due to having this. On top I also now 'have' a Neo Geo, SNES, Turbo Grfx and various arcade cores I never had before and couldn't afford unless I won the lottery.
A pi or similar is cheaper and can emulate higher end consoles admittedly, but the MiSTer just feels like I'm playing the real thing not a laggy clone... and to me at least that's worth the price of entry.
Hey MVG. I've been a subscriber here in the U.S. for a few years now and I'm a little bit younger than you. I'm 24 now, but I was raised with older console hardware, while also adapting to newer technologies as they came out significantly. I am honestly surprised that you haven't dabbled with FPGA's before and I am really excited to see what the future of your channel holds with these FPGA's on the market. Goof work, and much love. I always enjoy your content.
while it's really nerdy it's actually great that some passionate people devote their time to this.
like you said it's sort of hardware preservation, and while I'll never get one myself (unless someday I decide to go for an arcade booth who knows), I still love the idea and dedication of those guys
thanks for sharing with us
I love that you made it a point at the end to say that software emulation and FPGA conclusions can and should coexist. Both have advantages. Software emulation will never have to deal with supply constraints. I think FPGA is a great solution for those who are looking for the most accurate experience outside of the original hardware. Had this come out a few years earlier, I probably would have gotten into it as my enthusiasm was higher. By that time, I came to realize that software emulation served me extremely well and any issues of lag or accuracy didn't affect me in any meaningful way. I also have some specific requirements that make emulation on a PC a better choice. What irritates me is snobbery from either side, though I notice it more in an anti-emulation direction. I have seen so much misinformation about emulation with wild exaggerations about inaccuracy and input lag. I remember a recent one where someone claimed Super Mario World was near unplayable through emulation due to lag. It's nonsense. I've also been able to switch between emulation and original hardware and the games I played felt exactly the same. I have run into lag which was introduced by a TV as well as poor emulation, so I know those are issues, but things are wildly overstated by some. With that said, I like that FPGA solutions exist for those that want it and the Mister looks very cool. I'm sure the FPGA fans are sick of hearing "just get a raspberry pi". The important thing is that these solutions exist.
I love software emulation now that RetroArch exists, so I agree with you for the most part, but the Super Mario World issue is far from nonsense. I've been playing SMW since it came out, and I have never been able to recreate the original experience on any kind of emulator due to severe input lag. I have tried all the PC emulators, SNES emulators for XBOX, PSP, NDS, PS2, PS3, Wii and even Android and Linux ones, the input lag is always there and it's VERY noticeable, even on a computer monitor, and I know it's not my imagination because I don't experience that issue with the GBA version of SMW. The problem is real and that's why they were talking about it on RetroArch forums (An input lag investigation), and they came up with a lag reduction idea for the SNES cores (because the issue is real), and still, it wasn't enough, so the RA team came up with the Run Ahead solution, which makes SMW kinda playable, but still feels weird because the timing accuracy is no longer the same. I'm not looking for a fight here, it's just facts. For people (like me) who are very sensitive to input lag, the game is almost unplayable on any emulator that isn't RetroArch with Hard GPU Sync enabled, a high Frame Delay value, and at least one Run Ahead frame (two for me). This is the reason why I would NEVER try a Raspberry Pi for emulation, since I doubt it can handle Hard GPU Sync and Frame Delay to begin with.
@@PurpleSanz I'm not interested in a fight about this either. There are more important things going on and your reply was respectful and full of information, so there is no reason. The issue here, I think, is mostly about words and a need for me to clarify my point. I accept that there is lag that can come from different places and that some people are more sensitive to it. I can even accept that someone who is sensitive might personally find a game unplayable under certain circumstances. The story was told in a way to present all emulation in a bad light, which is why I mentioned "snobbery"(which is not what you're doing). As I recall, it involved people who hadn't even played the game in many years and were referred to as casual gamers somehow expecting to have the same reaction time as when they first played it. And the story involved the emulation(via Raspberry Pi) being done on one display, and the Mister on another one. It's a terrible comparison. I've personally experienced noticeable lag playing Golden Axe on one TV compared to another with the emulation hardware and software being exactly the same. My issue was the conclusions drawn from that particular story.
I do find Super Mario World playable, even if there is lag. I played it on the SNES when I was a kid too. If you find it unplayable, or nearly so, that's fine. And, as I said, I think the Mister is a great option for people who feel they need what it offers. I would have gotten one if it had come out a few years earlier, before I realized that Retroarch served my needs quite well. Incidentally, I tried run-ahead out with Shatterhand on NES, and found it much harder to control the jumps. I'm not drawing any conclusions from that.
Lag is a big deal if you are a huge platformer fan of the eary bits generations. Not so much if like me you mainly played Rpgs.
@@adamford4167 Of course it's a big deal when it's significant. The point was people claim there's so much lag. Meanwhile, I can beat Ninja Gaiden on NES via emulator with no problem which would be torture if the lag was significant.
Can't say I've noticed any lag on the emulations I've played. I do have a relatively fast PC and gaming monitor though... I'll have to try Super Mario world...
i am going to stick with emulators at the moment as they do what i need fine and the price for the hardware is a little out of my range for the moment but this will definitly be a project i am going to keep a eye on as this is just fascinating
this is a really amazing project. Thank you so much for bringing to my attention - I've only really delved into software emulation!
@@belindahasnia3992 I know it was surprising
Very cool! FPGA tech is extremely interesting wherever it is applicable. I'm waiting for delivery a of syntheizer I preordered that implements it, so cool to see it being applied in the gaming scene too.
Worth everything penny in my opinion, I have two systems and glad I brought them.
got one about a year ago at retail pricing aswell.. glad i did
Glad I went in 2 years ago when a complete Mister setup was 300euros... This chip shortage is hurting everything...
I'm glad I got my Mister setup 2 years ago as I paid ~250€ back then for the DE10-Nano, 128mb ram extension and an IO board add-on for VGA output. You can also build (or buy) SNAC adapter boards to plugin the original gamepads that came with consoles. There is indeed a learning curve but once everything is setup you can automatically update all your cores from the device itself :)
This is interesting! i wouldn't mind one more video on this whole MISTer thing!
MiSTer is an incredible device. I love mine. With the right USB controllers, there's practically no latency and the hardware emulation can be pixel-perfect, if the core is developed by the right hands. If you want to play Capcom System 2 and 3 games, you should upgrade the SDRAM to version 2.9...Flawless performance. Can't wait until the Saturn and Playstation cores are fully complete.
No
The Mister was a fantastic purchase for me right when lockdown started. I had time on my hands to learn a bunch of cool stuff and since then the scene has bee going bananas with updates, x68000, CPS2, ps1, saturn and now neo geo pocket/color! The investment is a bit at first, but when I realized that I no longer want to mod any of my older consoles because of the Mister's perfect video output, It's probably saved me money in the long run lol. It covers so many ODE and flash carts that I no longer have a desire to purchase and all in one convenient little box. Add in PC and arcade systems, dual output to CRTs and 4k tvs and now RetroNas and its literally the best time to be a retro gamer.
x68000 did they upgrade the core, last time i check i could get it to run
Glad you enjoyed the MiSTer. One big selling point for me was being able to do all this without the need for scalers, deinterlacers, or expensive console mods. HDMI just works with everything.
Had my MiSTer a good few years now.
I'm glad that there is a Spectrum Next core :)
I really like how the Mister project handles things like switching cores and input bindings and such. Things just work. Plus there's the zero lag and instant bootup time. RetroArch/RetroPI setups are such a PITA in comparison, especially with Bluetooth controllers and such, but of course software emulators do have way more features and are basically free.
Emulation has come a long way but the MiSTer has impressed me more than most emulation has.
Sit an average member of the public in-front of a Mister, or a Pi 4 running Retropie, and they wouldn't know the difference. Tell them the price difference, and then they'll know - they'll buy a Pi.
@@mrkirk4944 True but if you are a retro enthusiast you would want this over any emulation device. MiSTer isn't for everyone, you definitely do notice the input lag on emulation vs fpga.
@@mrkirk4944 not even an "expert" could tell the difference
@@mrkirk4944 The Pi runs like a rusty POS.
I've had a MiSTer FPGA since early 2019. No regrets. It's the gift that keeps giving.
The only thing I think you missed was that the MiSTer works with light guns etc when using the RGB output, since with [most cores] it works identically to real output hardware on consoles and arcade boards with zero lag.
Other than that, this is probably one of the best MiSTer overview videos I've seen from anyone who isn't already heavily involved in the project, kudos! Hope you have a blast with the MiSTer!
Excellent video! I love your emphasis on the community involvement!
I only noticed two things I would add a sorta-correction to:
The price was slightly overstated for the bare minimum. If you wait on the stock that keeps slowly trickling in by placing a backorder for the de10-nano, and combine it with a 128MB SDRAM module and a makerspot otg USB hub, it's still a decent amount under 300 USD. Maybe you meant another kind of dollars (not sure if you are outside the US, I forget).
Not a major issue by any means, but the "exact replica" status is very rare in any fpga core, including Analogue's FPGA-based clone consoles. Many cores are not direct copies of the schematics, and this is due to modern FPGA not being natively capable of doing things like tri-state logic and asynchronous flip-flops. Upon compilation of the core, that kind of logic in HDL gets inferred down into larger blocks of FF registers that achieve the same result on the FPGA, but can be inefficient and unreliable. Asynchronous clocks can cause problems in greater numbers with long chains though. So often times the digital logic can be preserved and be 1:1 while not matching the hardware schematic 1:1, so for some cores it is preferable to not use the same archaic circuit designs. :)
Side note, Sorgelig really should be highlighted by everyone and thanked for all the hard work he's put in over the years. He has maintained code in a ton of repositories, checking the code each time he merged a pull request, but often making his own fixes in all the cores, he developed the hardware, he developed the Linux kernel fork, he developed the Main MiSTer binary, and he made a great number of computer cores that people enjoy.
Also FPGAzumSpass (the psx core dev) is amazing, as well as srg320 (the Saturn dev who famously did the SNES core without access to original hardware). Kitrinx/Rysha deserves a ton of credit for coordinating and aiding tons of development behind the scenes as well as translating a lot of stuff from English into Russian for Sorgelig (who isn't as bad at English as he thinks), as well as developing and enhancing multiple cores, perfecting color palettes, and adding lots of quality of life features to the platform.
Alanswx and jimmystones have ported and improved a ton of arcade cores (as well as many computer cores ported by alanswx). Grabulosaure created the scaler that MiSTer uses, ascal, so the beautiful video output deserves him a lot of love. Mr. X developed many arcade cores for the MiSTer.
ElectronAsh, d0pefish, flynnsbit, Shane Lynch, paulb-nl, James-F, etc... So many I could just list off that have contributed so much over the years.
And of course the MiSTer project all goes back to the earlier pioneers of open source FPGA gaming emulators. MiST, the projects original namesake, was the source of many for the MiSTer projects cores. Torlus, gyurco, robinsonb5, MikeJ, and so many others have created so many components and cores over the span of nearly 2 decades that the MiSTer has built upon that the contribution can't be overstated.
Thanks and props to every dev helping us play games the (IMO) best way possible!
Forgot Jotego, the most prolific FPGA arcade dev? Wait, you are a calculated person who does everything calculated. You knew full well what you were doing ;) Where is darren and blackwine? Where is nullobject? Furrtek? atrac17? Rysha who - Widescreen NES? Keep pushing useless pull requests to dot your name all over the github.
Once there's a CD-i core I'll get one for sure. 😑
As long as you have enough rupees
I'll bet you can't wait t *SHOT*
One thing I really love is that you can toss pretty much any input method at the Mister and it just works. Literally every USB controller I've plugged in just works. That part alone is so incredible to me. If I want to play Game Boy games with an arcade stick or PC Engine games with my Astro City Mini controller, there's nothing stopping me. It's wonderful.
I'm also a HUGE fan of the Game Boy two player cores that run two simultaneous instances and simulate the link cable. I wanted a split screen port of Super Mario Bros Deluxe's race mode for years and MiSTer made that dream come true.
Your video just shine a light of interesting in to my dreaded college subject which is FPGA Design ,thanks.
Have to wonder what the top end is for the current version of the FPGA "heart". Could it do a PS2? I also wonder about the utility past the PS1. The upscaling on GC/PS2 generation games is amazing and is like unlocking hidden graphics. Some Game Cube games in particular look completely different emulated and upscaled and Wii games were really hampered by hardware.
PS1/Saturn is already near the limit, and the 486 core is absolutely maxed out. Most experts think the N64 is impossible due to clock speeds, 6th gen consoles are a non-starter.
Heck the GBA core creator started work on a Nintendo DS core and had to abandon it due to running out of space on the FPGA chip!
@@FoxbatStargazer I wonder if we'll see a more powerful FPGA board taken up by the community (but maybe not, they are pretty expensive and I think for those newer consoles people would settle for software emulation)
You would have to use a significantly more powerful and expensive FGPA(10k to lowball it) to do PS2. It would also be largely pointless and extremely difficult. One of the reason for using hardware emulation over software is it effortlessly solves the borderline impossible software cycle problem. We still don't have a genesis software emulator that sounds correct because of this for example but for an FGPA this isn't even a minor problem, once implemented in an FGPA the cycles are just correct. But once you get to GPU centric architectures like the dreamcast and onward you don't have any advantages from using an FGPA over software because cycle accuracy does not matter anymore. Software emulation is the way to go for more modern machines because they're not meaningfully different from your computer like older hardware was.
@@Swampus100 Definitely good response, even though the units are capable just not worth it. I could see implementing a complement to emulation with a hardware accelerated lookup table which I have done before with PS1 just isn't cheap enough to be viable.
dont think thats possible on a de10nano. its hitting its limits with psx / saturn.
I remember I was excited about including FPGA to cpus, after Intel and then even AMD acquisitions FPGA manufacturers and promised to include it in CPUs. SW emulators would then simply used them as programmable accelerator. Well, many years passed and nothing. So it's nice to see standalone version. Maybe one day, it happens.
Unlike other architectures as Amigas or old Apple PPC, x86(-64) hardware abstractions on CPU, video and chipsets... While making possible to have a sort of standards which make "generic" OS drivers possible (which in turn makes possible the existence of OS homebrew in the PC world (and foss OSs in last instance))... Also make it very difficult, if not impossible to use "accelerator" and "bridge cards" in a meaningful way. Last time they tried was with AMD hypertransport, and because the memory architecture of the x86 world, the speed gains of the hardware acceleration were too small to justify the existence of coprocessors or "Emulator Accelerators".
amazing video, something very interesting thats nice to see people preserving, like physical emulators that we can reproduce forever if we have the parts!
I was wondering about this system. Thanks for covering it..
any successor for the DE10-nano in near future as this fpga is almost on limit?
Not in the near future. The reason that the DE-10 Nano is so cheap is because the CPU (Intel ARM Cortex A9) is subsidized by taxpayers via the Intel FPGA University Program. I think it'll be at least another 5+ years before a bigger and faster FPGA comes down in price to make it a reasonable successor to the DE10.
To clarify, the ARM core is separate to the FPGA part of the chip, but still on the same chip.
The ARM basically handles the higher-level stuff, like the OSD, USB controllers / keyboard, network updates, and loading disk/tape/cart data into the FPGA side.
But yeah, the DE10 Nano is still THE best bang-per-buck board atm. It has a lot of logic elements on the FPGA for the price, even with the recent price increase. It's just a shame everything is screwed up atm with the parts shortages.
There are some other boards on the horizon which might (or might not) become a future platform for running the same cores. A few people are currently working on breakout boards, but even then the FPGA modules are currently out-of-stock. :(
I don't think we'll be seeing the likes of Dreamcast on FPGA any time soon though, even with a larger chip. With that much complexity, it starts to get harder to run the logic at the full clock freq of the original console, at least for the late-90s / early-2000s consoles.
looks really cool, but im happy with retroarch and duckstation, excellent performance
I’ve never heard of this before and suddenly I’m very curious. Great video!
Thanks for sharing MVG, best regards 🎮
I own a mister but I can't bring myself to use it often because of the lack of savestates in a lot of cores.
Old school game design has too many cheap deaths and not enough checkpoints. I'm an adult with limited free time and I use savestates to play retro games without them wasting my time
waaaah
You guys really can't let people enjoy things. huh
Save states are not a priority in cores as the MiSTer project is all about preservation of original hardware. If there is a hardware option like an action replay cart, then those are implemented. Just adding save states for the sake of it wont be something that will happen anytime soon on the cores.
Exactly my problem, too. And I'm too old, games I used to have no problem with in the eighties suck me up and spit me out quite regularly now, even on a CRT....
@@ZaPpaul
it depends on how the core was developed. several already have save states
True hardware parallelism is what makes FPGA work so well. Sure, you think you can do that on a multicore CPU? not with the same level of accuracy. You're an app running on top of an OS which can thwart you.
False. Software emulators are just as accurate (or more) as FPGA. BSNES was even more accurate for some time (now they are supposedly even). The only thing the OS is dragging back is input latency, not emulation accuracy. And even that can be fixed. Emulation accuracy is achieved in the same way in both software emulators and FPGA. Knowledge and good programming.
FPGA is literally a meme. Paying 500 dollars so you can run "simulation" when fpga doesn't even stimulate at component level is something only a true smooth brain would do. Your money is far better spent on a pc that can emulate and play far more than this meme box can.
@@tylermckenzie2067 What do you mean? While FPGA is more expensive than a simple CPU with software emulation, the FPGA is able to actually recreate the logical circuits inside of the CPU and system it is emulating. I don't think anyone going the FPGA route is claiming it is more practical or easy, but it is neat that the hardware is more accurately represented this way.
no you can't
@@Imgema yes, so wait 20 years until this "good programming and knowledge" comes. lol you guys are really disturbing these days
Mister also has TONS of video effect filters, the recently added shadowmask filters are really cool.
Understandable, have a nice day.
So, is the Mister any good? Of *cores* it is 😬
This is mind-blowing to me, voodoo magic type stuff. Am I missing something? The emulation community is reverse engineering and replicating systems little Sega Saturn and Playstation, shrinking the chips down, and putting them all in a tiny all purpose box, while Sega and Sony can barely re release their own systems in a similar sized box... I absolutely loved the OG PS3 due to its hardware back compatibility, and this all makes me wonder how hard/ expensive it would be for huge companies to offer true hardware backward compatibility in their consoles. There's obviously a market for it, but I guess they just want to go the easy route reselling us their roms.
I mean, there's a market for it, but it would require time and a more expensive console. Dedicated retro gamers seem to still be in a minority so coming out with a console that's extra expensive because it can play old games natively may do more harm than good. As much as people harp on Sony not having BC on the PS4 consumers made it fairly clear that Sony eventually axing the PS2 BC from it was a better idea. The Switch is one of the highest selling consoles ever and made more money with Wii U ports and it's gimmick over being backwards compatible.
The "easy" route seems to be the most cost effective. Again, Sony already got burned before by it, and the differing architectures of the pre-PS4 systems don't help. Can't explain why MS systems don't have it, though, and they seem set on doing their from of "Backwards Compatibility".
@@RippahRooJizah I feel ya. But for all the people who buy from the small choice of Wii U or N64 games, how many find that their game isn't on the list, and DL a rom pack? Go full pirate. (Probably enough to be a threat to Nintendo's profit and worth pricey legal action). I guess what I was saying was I personally would pay the cost of a bigger PS4 with PS3 inside, however it turned out. When my OG PS 3s burned I went on ebay willing to outbid anyone to get one asap, but was smacked with the reality that many other people had the same idea, with more money... You are correct in saying people spoke to Sony with their money- just like pre-ordering modern games with microtransactions despite the backlash, and there was backlash. Sony just did the same thing with "Software back compat in the future" but backwards by slowly phasing it out. I think if it wasn't abandoned, a large enough group of people would have paid the extra for a "Legacy Edition" PS4 and Sony could have made a profit. I mean a PS5 with a disc drive is far more expensive than the price of a disc drive, and people are willing to hold out and pay extra for it... But If Sony went only all digital PS5 at launch (they could still cut out the drive on the "PS5 pro") people would still buy it, despite the backlash, and 10 years in the future when PS6 is out it would be easy to say people spoke with their wallets, or even speculate that Sony couldn't have done it due to the cost associated with the supply chain issues (similar to the high launch cost of the PS3). I have a feeling IBM would be happy to keep selling their cell chips.
It's too late now, and would probably cost much more to start from the ground up while if they had pushed forward it would have gotten cheaper instead. I guess now it's me that's just speculating at this point.
@@Wooskii1 The choice bit is why I can't stand behind MS's implementation of BC. Good on them for making that attempt, at the very least, but I guess it isn't truly BC.
There are plenty of people who wouldn't mind a PS4 with the actual hardware to play older PS games. I would as well. I just doubt it'll be viable, especially with scalpers around.
As an aside, this is why I was interested in the Polymega, although plenty of people have complained about it, either with the specs being to anemic for the price (which is quite expensive at 450 US dollars, even moreso with the addons), lack of FPGA, and plenty of people going "But I can emulate, this is pointless" despite this meant to be an above-board way to preserve games without any copyright issues.
@@RippahRooJizah Yea, Microsoft or Xbox was a letdown given all the talk of BC, and I understand the mess of architectures in the Sony line, but I still think enough people would have paid a premium to move their games to the next console had Sony keep it up (speculating again), I moved all mine from PS1 to PS3 and so did many friends. I'm sure more people would have kept their physical games in good condition too, but during the time Sony phased out BC these game collections got scattered to the wind and now those people would have no reason to buy a BC PS4/5... As much as I dislike GameStop, If they go out of business it would make finding even used current gen gen games that much harder (I'm sure the console manufactors would be happy)
I slept on the Polymega due to my collection being lost, I still have a ton of games from handhelds. Both backups on SD/ HDD and carts. It does suck to hear that they didn't pull through and meet expectations none the less, but FPGAs look like a better Idea to me. I have been aware of them for some time but this video really caught my attention due to the size an (relatively) low price. First time I looked at them (not too long ago) one console module was bigger than MVG's loaner system and cost almost the same. I guess time will tell.
I plan on pairing it with a Mister Multisystem breakout. Great review.
I love the idea that this is another way to preserve information about how the old computers and consoles worked. Of course, the same goes for software emulators. It's just great when technicians can use the source code from MAME, for example, to repair old PCBs.
Very nice project! And I do feel tempted to get one! But ... let me be the devil's advocate for a minute. At the end of the day, compatibility wise, what's going to be the difference between a mature emulator, and a mature FPGA core? There should be a comparable level of compatibility, right? (or no?)
At least for me right now, I can definitely see the advantages for the Arcade Cabinet use case, but maybe not a lot of advantages vs using a C64 / Amiga / ZX Spectrum emulator on a Raspberry Pi 400, for example. Happy to hear opposing views, in any case!
Compatibility? Probably not, but the experience is very different. From input lag, compatibility with (some limited) hardware, or the speed of booting, the MiSTer makes the whole experience feel a lot closer to the original.
“Mature” FPGA cores are often a lot less aged than “mature” software emulators. Although not easy, it seems frankly easier to rapidly develop accurate FPGA cores versus accurate software emulators, at least at the rate we are getting them. Its a lot of trickiness to emulate the timing of dozens of chips on a few CPU threads in an efficient enough way to run in realtime, wheras FPGA just lets you actually run the equivalent of those chips in parallel like the original. This also lets you experience sound and video with minimal to zero buffering depending on the output method.
It's an all in one solution that offers an original hardware level experience without needing to invest in original hardware or the mods associated with them to work on an HDTV. Also, the mister offers many of the benefits of an emulator like filters and upscaling (save states in some cores) etc. It's also not really about compatibility, it should be 100% if the core is done properly, it's about accuracy. The mister running a well done core (which most of the big console cores are well done) is just going to be nearly PERFECT to the original experience.
Now, if you don't care about original hardware or accuracy and don't mind the lag inherent to an emulator (I personally find that topic grossly exaggerated in the community) I really wouldn't recommend you shell out for a mister. Especially right now with the prices all jacked up.
The Mister is the bridge between an emulator and original hardware IMO. It offers the best of both worlds for a medium sized investment.
@@devilmikey00 I understand what you're saying and you seem to know a lot about the subject but can you tell me the difference between running groovymame on a crt and mister. My pc specs are well above anything needed to run CPS1,2 and Neo Geo which is what I spend most of my time running. Thanks
All great points, thanks gentlemen!
The points about price are exactly what have kept me away from the MiSTer project this far, it’s just simply far too expensive right now.
The old Atari 2600 was $1000 in today's money. Gaming has never been cheaper.
@@mick8473 I always thought this was a bit of a silly argument. Reads too "back in my day" for my tastes.
VCRs and DVD players used to cost 10x more what they do now, especially when the technology was new. I don't think that necessarily means that everyone should be buying one at that price. Similarly, just because inflation makes older consoles worth more of that time's money, I don't think that means everyone should buy an Atari 2600 for $1000 in 2022, even if it was brand new, unless someone thought it was worth that price.
The de-10 is unfortunately going up in price, not down. It could be a decade before the price gets more accessible.
@@mick8473 Yeah, that is how inflation works alright... The US dollar was in fact stronger in 1977. Beyond that however, the 2600 was a bit of an outlier given that it was among the first home consoles. The NES for example was $180 at launch in 1986(US launch) which would be about $455 today. The SNES was $199 and about $405 today, PS1 was $299 and about $545 today, GameCube was $199 and about $315 today, and so on. So gamings price of yesteryear is really not all that different from today with regards to consoles when adjusted for inflation. It has always had its peaks and valleys with regards to cost of entry.
Oh, and adjusted for inflation the Atari 2600 would be roughly $870 in todays money, not $1000. That being said, when adjusted the PS3 launch price of $499 (which is a Series X or PS5 today) would be around $700 today… Don’t worry though, give it a few years and you’ll be able to say that adjusted for inflation it too is $1000!..
@@linearlink My friend in the UK done the calculation and was shocked the sacrifice his parents made. I was actually being conservative. he checked the current rental income of his parents old house, his parents sacrificed one month's rent for the Atari. $1250 today. I rounded it down as I was aware the inflation calculator that had it at $800. The PS1 I purchased was 2/3 a months rent. On the same house today that is $800+ . If I was to buy a PS5 it would be 1/3 a months rent.
Thanks! I was waiting for that :D
TI-99 4A Parsec, remember playing that with my stepdad, the sound addon was amazing, great video, im almost ready to break and get one just for the arcade stuff alone
What would it cost for just one vintage console, arcade board, etc? When you look at it that way, with this effectively being several dozens of those in one, the value proposition doesn't seem that bad.
Sooooooo mistakes were made by MVG? 😂
Thanks for the vid, I'd not heard of this 😊
I got my system a few months back after months of thought and video viewing to make sure it was for me as it's expensive compared to emulation options which I already have along with real hardware for the 8 and 16 bit computers which was my main draw (especially Amiga) and I'm so glad I did. Real hardware stays safely packed away likely to be sold at some point while a tiny device does it all and more and saves a lot of space in my house. Well worth every penny. With playstation and Saturn cores coming soon and looking amazing it's all icing on a very tasty cake.