ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ค. 2024
- Ep 22 : MiSTer FPGA and hardware emulation: what it is, why you might want it, and how to build and configure your own. Demo of console and arcade cores plus Minimig (Amiga) and ao486. Costs involved and the pros and cons of hardware emulation.
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Products used and featured - www.amazon.com/shop/retrobits
Terasic DE-10 Nano Kit - amzn.to/3e7G2QI
MiSTer I/O Board (Standard) - ebay.us/mSpfKs
MiSTer USB Hub - ebay.us/UqUaLT
MiSTer SD Ram (128 MB) - ebay.us/iOJXXu
MiSTer I/O Board (Digital) - ebay.us/kNjg4S
Hakko FX888D Digital Soldering Station - amzn.to/2TYYrbI
*Retro Bits earns money from Amazon and eBay Partner Links
MiSTer Project Home - github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_...
00:00 Introduction and Background
03:13 Unbox and Build
11:00 Configuration
14:18 SCART RGB Cable
16:48 Gaming Core Demonstration
20:49 Minimig Amiga and ao486 Cores
24:40 Cost, Pros/Cons, and Conclusion - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![คบซ้อน - วงL.กฮ. [ Official MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5MtesqJ0I1c/mqdefault.jpg)
These are the types of videos we need more of. So many ppl are scared to jump in. The lack of in depth videos such as these also makes it harder for ppl to come aboard. Keep it up!
Exactly. This shit's the shit.
Cost is the issue. When a complete Mister costs hundreds, then that is out of reach of most who just want to play retro games, and emulation is much much cheaper and easier.
@@mrkirk4944 while I agree that it doesn't get much cheaper than a low cost pc or raspberry pi, there's so many ppl who plunk down $$$ for the Analogue consoles which only play 1 consoles games. Given the accuracy/dual output/extra features, mister fpga is a steal if you stream or want fpga accuracy. For me, its worth it for CPS1/2 alone
@@lalos3813 For me, personally, the Analogue consoles are a complete waste of space. I own REAL hardware, and I never paid anywhere near the price of those Analogue consoles, I also prefer real hardware. For FPGA, I think it's great, and as close to my real hardware as you can get. But, most people I know, who lived through those classic 80s and 90s, don't have that kind of spare cash to splurge on a FPGA - many are married with mortgages and kids. Most, get home from work, eat, engage with family, then later in the evening just want something cheap and easy to use so they can play those old games, and a Raspberry Pi is enough for them to enjoy those games. And to be honest, you connect a Pi to a real CRT, and put it next to a Mister, and they won't see any difference in the games.
Yeah i think all the separate parts you can get and setting it up is what holds mister back. If only some company would put it all together, stick it in a nice case and sell it as a product it would be so much more popular. They need to focus on making this a product not a DIY with a gazillion different configurations, options and addons from 3rd parties.
Thank you for this great review. I especially enjoyed seeing which bits were needed to build the complete kit.
Love how informative your video is about the MiSTer and FPGA.
Thanks for this. Very informative. It really is overwhelming at first but this breaks it down nicely. I really like the idea of keeping my emulation separate from my main computer while having classic consoles accessible in a neat little package.
This is AWESOME!! I'm definitely going to think about making one. The mix of challenges and limitations is PERFECT for me. ❤
The presentation and production quality of your videos are very impressive. Well done.
Thank you for the positive feedback!
Keep it up and stay consistent my friend and you got this.
Underrated video, just what people need to understand the MiSTer and setup overview. I've just got mine setup this week, loving it, highly recommended. Neo Geo, Mega Drive, Amiga done, ran update_all and now I have a load of arcade games too.
This is one of the best tutorial/review videos i've ever seen. Everything was clear and well-presented. Thanks!
Glad it was useful and thanks for the feedback!
th-cam.com/video/YLfwbr-5PxM/w-d-xo.html
Dude your channel is gonna blow up. Super professional and you are knowledgeable with proper grammer and an amicable personality. All the best brother man. Merry Christmas! -James F.
Aw shucks. You're going to make me blush. Seriously though, I had zero expectations going into this, it just seemed like something fun to try during the lockdown. I really do appreciate the positive feedback and will keep trying my best! Merry Christmas to you as well!
Not even 3 minutes into this video, I was hooked. What a great job you did explaining this device! Hats off.
Awesome, glad it was. helpful and thanks for the feedback!
This is the best MiSTer video I've come across yet, my ultimate mister prebuilt is in the mail so thanks for the crash course.
You're welcome. Have fun with it!
This is the definitive MiSTer video to me. Thanks!
This was a great video; thanks for the content!
Most of the content I've seen regarding MiSTer has been surface level. This really explored the cons as well as the pros and gave a much better look at what it will take to get one of these systems running. Great video!
Awesome, glad you found it useful!
Another excellent video man! I love how tidy that thing is when all together, it would make the perfect travel system!
Thanks! It would be neat to put the guts of the MiSTer into an old laptop and utilize the existing display and keyboard. Hrmm....
As if we could travel anywhere nowadays... Unfortunately, we can't.
bought one of these a couple of weeks ago, this video is an excellent summary.
Where did you buy it?
@@manuel0578 misterfpga.org/viewforum.php?f=34
Thanks for making this video, it was incredibly helpful!
You're very welcome!
I had been meaning to learn more about the MiSTer. This is a good intro! Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Great video, I keep reading about FPGA retro gaming and it’s promise and was taking a wait-and-see approach but after this I may dive in. Subbed.
Thanks! Good luck and have fun :)
Great video. Thanks for providing all this info.
NP glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you very much for the video!. Everything I wanted to know and nothing that I didn't need. Great content.
Glad it was helpful!
Been looking for something like this for 2 days great stuff.
Thanks! Glad it was useful!
One of the best MiSTer "introduction" videos I've seen! Great job at clearly showing the build, setup, and what it can do game-wise.
Thanks for the feedback!
@@retrobitstv You know I've been thinking of getting into Mister for a while now (I even bought a couple of old CRT TV's in very good condition in preparation - to fully utilize analog video output for full retro feel lol), but I am not a DIY kinda guy, so I was still on the fence and postponing the whole thing, trying to convince myself that software emulation is "just as good" nowadays etc. But thanks to your helpful video, I think I am ready to jump in.
@@kosmosyche which CRTs did you buy?
@@kosmosyche the main reason I haven’t done this yet is because CRTs take up so much space
Awesome. Good luck and have fun with it! BTW even though I made the RGB cable in this video, they are available for purchase through online vendors if you don't feel like doing that part yourself!
Never realized the love and desire for retro games.
Great video. Thank you.
High quality video production.
Very good overview. Thank You!
Glad it was helpful!
Good job, great intro. My latest build came in at about $300 and includes : nice mini-ITX case, soft power on/off, front USB ports, 48W power/hub , VGA via the alternate dongle method, 64mb module, 2.4 GHz mouse/keyboard and all the extensions I needed including a sd card extender to make access easy. Just as convenient as any PC. Even my first pass (DE-10 nano, 32gb module, cheap OTA mobile hub, decent sd) was super-fun and that was less than $200 USD and 99% of cores are fine.
Nice. I should have mentioned some alternative options for folks who specific / different needs. Always with the hindsight I tell ya. I do want to transplant mine into a case as a next project. Need to do some research on parts first and figure out what might be a suitable donor.
Nice video, very up to date (mentioning RTG for Minimig 12.2020). It deserves a :thumbsup:
Thanks!
Great overview and demo of first time use!
Thanks for the feedback!
This was a damn good video
This is next-level stuff
I've been keeping an eye on MiSTer for a while. NeoGeo support almost made me get one, but I decided to wait for it to mature a bit. I'm also hopeful for CPS2 hardware support. CPS2 and NeoGeo alone are worth the price of admission for me.
Oh the Neo Geo core is very mature, one of the bigger contributors to the Neo Geo core is someone who been decapping original Neo geo proprietary chips to reverse engineer for repairing MVS and AES mother boards. To me the Core is a strong 99.99% accurate with allowing some leeway for the various hardware revisions of the Neo geo.
The only thing the Neo Geo core missing is Neo Geo CD support, which is like missing 2 games Samurai Shodown RPG and Ironclad, and not too long ago someone figured out a port of Ironclad from CD to MVS/AES format (from the Wii VC release).
CPS2 beta core just dropped yesterday :)
CPS2 core is now public and works great!
Buy it david
Dont wait too long, its becoming harder and harder to get a de10 and the price will only go up.
Awesome video. I don’t think it’s necessarily for me ($400-ish is a lot of money for something like this, even with that accuracy. Most people won’t know or care - emulation is accurate enough). But I sincerely appreciate the time and effort put into the video and your channel’s content. We need more stuff like this online.
Emulation is good for a bit - the latency is defintely noticable if you had your brain programmed with these games as a kid. I'm definitely tempted by the Mister...
Very well made video. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the feedback!
Great over. Thanks Matt.
Glad you enjoyed it!
fantastic vid answered a lot quests thanks
Awesome, glad it was useful!
Great video thank you
Fantastic video, just to let you know I am soon shipping Mini ITX adapter boards for this DE10 Nano. I will share on my group. Many thanks.
Thanks! That sounds like a cool product. I'll be looking to put mine into a nice case soon!
Thanks for the Vid :-)
Solid video. The Retrodriven script by Retrodriven is also another fantastic all in one updater script as well. It'll even rename the systems and put all arcade cores under Arcade.
Great tip, RetroDriven is indeed awesome! Totally should have mentioned that in the vid, oh well.
@@retrobitstv all good man. Every time I make a video and edit and upload there is always a point where I'm like great I'm done. Crap I forgot a thing lol
Winter for us in the northern hemisphere for sure, Dave Jones from EEVblog might disagree though. I grow up in West Australia and it sure is hot there this time of year ~40c
On a serious note, thank you for the content, enjoying the channel.
If your looking for ideas, might I suggest a monthly news back in 1980's, similar to The Spectrum Show by Paul Jenkinson. Would love to see that type of segment done for the Commodore or maybe retro computers in general.
Note: If you do check Paul Jenkinson's channel, the news segment is in the earlier episodes.
Anyway keep it up.
One of the best videos about MiSter that I've ever seen. One more pro on the FPGA side, btw., if you install the DE-10 nano IDE you can actually make the chips visible by just importing the MiSter cores one by one. Have you ever been wondering how the logic of an 68K or 6502 works? You might probably not do the same with a Software Emulator like the Raspberry.
Very cool idea, thanks for sharing!
Wonderful Video. I missed the Amiga SysInfo results. :)
How careless of me! Here are my SysInfo results running Minimig 20201105: retrobits.tv/mister_minimig_sysinfo.png :)
@@retrobitstv Now that is dedication to your channel! Subscribed.
Super imformative video...hope its still a kind of "up2date", just getting started with my MiSTer project
Glad it was useful! There have been a lot of changes in the MiSTer world since this video was created. One of the big changes is that there are several all-in-one solutions for the hardware now so instead of buying an analog board and a usb hub and a memory stick, you could just buy a single board that fits in an ITX case called the Ironclad, or the MiSTer MultiSystem that console-izes the experience. Lots of new cores, arcades, and even Playstation 1 and Sega Saturn cores are nearing completion. I've done a number of quarterly MiSTer update videos since this one that might help stay up-to-date. They can all be found in this playlist: th-cam.com/video/-IP0k3GatHE/w-d-xo.html Good luck and enjoy!
Wow fantastic video for Mister
Thanks, appreciate the feedback!
Great video! Earned a Sub.
Thanks and welcome!
Great video! I'm still thinking about getting one, but i'm not sure whether the better input and outpu-lag situation is worth the price for me.
Nice video dude. Appreciate the detail you went into. Still a bit pricey for me, but glad to see alternatives to software emulation out there.
Thanks! Yea, it definitely has a higher barrier to entry than a Retro Pie setup and I really think for a large percentage of people the latter is enough to meet their needs, mine included.
@@retrobitstv I think if I had the room for a CRT it would be a no brainer, mind you :)
I just got mine yesterday and set it up. I love it so much already.
I want to get one but i am not sure about the Assembly and set up and the biggest headache where do I get ROMs. I can buy legal copies of the games I want to play but I don't know how to convert legal copies of retro games into ROMs. Or simply I am not sure how to get ROMs
@@nayyarrashid4661 the assembly is super easy. You literally plug in a fan, and add a heatsink, if you even buy those. The setup, if you buy the de-10 nano from misteraddons comes with it preconfigured for use, and from there use update_all script which grabs all arcade roms.
Go on archive.org and look up no intro romsets, every single console on mister I got the full romsets off there for
@@jackbootshamangaming4541 where did you get yours from?
@@lucabops4778 misteraddons
Great video mate. Explained a lot of things I had questions about... Thanks 👍
Have you got a link for thing you used to hold your vga/scart cable at 16 minutes? That looked useful.
Great, glad it was useful! Here's a link to the tool. It can be useful but it can also be a pain! www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L5DDVKB
As of 1.5.2021 the ao486 is a 486sx (no co-processor) running at max 90mhz. Advanced caching has been implemented so it's still way faster than a normal "sx". It can run up to Windows ME if you use the /NM switches during setup. Only real mode disk access means anything more than DOS can be slow and breaky. That being said, having a 486 again has been fun :)
I haven't even tried Win95 yet, but it's on the to-do list. I noticed a big performance improvement with an update not long ago. Impressive how it's still getting faster!
There have been a lot of changes in the MiSTer world since this video was created. One of the big ones is that there are several all-in-one solutions for the hardware now so instead of buying an analog board and a usb hub and a memory stick, you could just buy a single board that fits in an ITX case called the Ironclad, or the MiSTer MultiSystem that console-izes the experience. Lots of new cores, arcades, and even Playstation 1 and Sega Saturn cores are nearing completion. I've done a number of quarterly MiSTer update videos since this one that might help stay up-to-date. They can all be found in this playlist: th-cam.com/video/-IP0k3GatHE/w-d-xo.html
Thank you.
That’s a way better option in my opinion.
Thanks!
Thank you for your support!
Just perfect.
That’s an awesome looking crt monitor
Check out Episode 24 on that monitor! th-cam.com/video/4aaRi_yN0ds/w-d-xo.html
Great vídeo. Sou so Brasil e adorei seus vídeos.
Thanks for watching and appreciate the feedback!
make sure you always reboot befor you load a core or sometimes it will causes games to flicker or other strange bugs when you dont
I hadn't noticed this problem yet, but I'll keep your advice in mind if it pops up. Thanks!
Yeah the MiSTer doesn't clear the RAM when you switch cores which can cause bugs. It seems to be more of a problem in certain cores like the NES core
@@HouwariAttack Hitting reset good enough or does it require a power off/on?
@@emusnes it depends but at this point it wont matter looks like what they are calling DDR3 bridge hang has been solve after 2 years this hard to track bug was found by bellwood420 while he was trying to fix the cave core not booting for some users. go here to read about it misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=17119#p17119
great video but the most important drawback is not mentioned: Mister can NOT do save states. emulators can, and most original hardware also can (eg Amiga Action Replay)
Good point! I think right now only the GBA core can do save states.
What? That is not good. I want to play smw and need to save games.
It makes sense; essentially because the "hardware" is not just a bunch of addressable bytes in memory, the virtual hardware would need to be extended with a function to dump or reload all its registers in order to implement save states. It actually adds "cost" in terms of FPGA usage compared to a software emulator where there is basically no overhead to doing that.
That said, depending how the FPGA is implemented, if it is possible to stop the clock and serially read/write all of the state of the FPGA, it could be a good method to implement save states in a generic way "for free". It would require some interesting post processing to filter out just the bits of the target system though, if you wanted to export a save state to use in other emulators or get the save state separated from the rest of the FPGA data.
5th gen is definitely possible on MiSTer. PSX is in the works right now, and all signs point to it fitting within the de-10's constraints. only 5th gen consoles i can think of that would have issues are Saturn and N64. Saturn is largely unknown at this point but unlikely, but N64 seems entirely unlikely, given the requirements. PSX, Jaguar, FM Towns Marty and Amiga CD32 should all be within the realm of possibility, however.
although I have seen this FPGA elsewhere, I am more convinced that I will take one, especially when I saw that DOOM is running, a very educational presentation
Subscribed
Fun! I'm thinking about maybe a home arcade cabinet project and feeling discouraged by the price of arcade hardware these days - and feeling pretty underwhelmed by the prepackaged emulator products as well. Might be fun to build something up around one of these, though.
With that JAMMA interface, you can get the best of both worlds: authentic arcade cabinet experience and you're not limited to one or two games/modes. I think that would be a great project, if I wasn't so space-constrained already :)
Yeah free space is a problem... Thinking a cocktail-style machine but even so it would have a pretty considerable footprint.
That's a beautiful coffee mug. Where did you get it? The color is just captivating!
Haha I do not remember, just one of a set that appeared in my cupboard at some time in the past :)
Nice video; well explained.
I just want to add that 90% of human beings cannot distinguish the latency on a powerful machine running an emulator while playing games.
So the latency issue only apply to devices that are pushed over a threshold, where it start to affect their performances. A RPI for example is good for 8 bit computer and some 16 bits but it struggle with the Amiga emulator because the CPU cycles on that machine are not enough to run the host OS (linux variants) and the emulated OS/environment. Which is why you can perceive a latency in games.
Human beings can perceive latency up to a point; whoever tell you differently is just fooling himself/herself by thinking that. There has been plenty of blind studies where people could not tell the difference between an emulator and the real hardware; as long as the emulator run on a powerful enough machine. FPGA is great for emulating in software the hardware (you program in software the gates on the device, the gates are software-driven transistors, basically the software drive the lanes used to connect those transistors, like a wire or trace would do in the real hardware), and reduce much of the "translation" a machine has to do; but if you have a machine powerful enough; the issue of latency and overload due to translation and due to the fact that you are running 2 OS environment on the same machine, become pretty close to being indistinguishable.
The only concrete example I can point to from experience is a NES emulator on my PC. I was playing SMB3 on one of the later levels and was unable to complete a tricky sequence after having tried it dozens of times. Something just felt "off". I tried it on a different emulator on the same machine and got by that spot on the first try, it just felt much better. So, not even a hardware issue in that case.
@@retrobitstv I know what you mean; I had the same feeling when I got a new TV and I could not play PS4 games because I would always be late on timing.
Although that was due to the fact that I didn't adapt myself to the timing of the new TV; but after few days, eventually my brain caught up the delay and adjusted for it.
For most retro games, I never felt like my actions were not on sync for too long; I get used to the delay after a bit, and I am not special for sure. Every human being is capable of that; after all this is how we survived gaming in the 70s and 80s on PAL machines :)
I'm glad you used the term "FPGA-based emulation", because that's technically accurate. It is indeed emulation, just at a different level. Like all emulators, not all are perfect, so while latency is low on an FPGA, accuracy is only as good as the people who wrote the emulator core(s). Pros and cons.
Great point, thanks!
@Jim Leonard: Technically, it's simulation, not emulation :)
@@sierraromeoromeo2444 That is splitting a very, very fine hair, and I'm not going to touch it (software people have different definitions of simulation vs. emulation than console emulator people, for example).
It's always a question of what you want to achieve... the majority just might want to play the old games, emulation on any other device is good enough.
I came across a backup of very old demos a year back, couldn't get it working on any system, including c64mini (dissapointing little device).
On a mister core it does run, not with the level of accuracy i'd hoped for, but well enough to have fun.
It's no more emulation than a later revision of a computer or console which consolidated a bunch of logic into a PAL or ASIC to reduce chip count. Would you say the C64C is a Commodore 64 emulator? Incorporating the logic of an entire system into an FPGA core is no different, it's just taking it to the extreme.
What about the various Soviet and eastern European clones of systems like the ZX Spectrum? The accuracy is only as good as the people who reverse engineered the platform. Are they emulation, too? What about later revisions of systems that contained bugfixed OS ROMs? They aren't 100% accurate to the original either. Do you also consider such systems 'emulation'?
I totally agree that simply being FPGA does not guarantee perfect or superior accuracy - there are many cores that are currently no more (or less) accurate than the most accurate emulator - the MiSTer Atari 8-bit core vs. Altirra is a perfect example. But saying something is worse or no better than emulation does not mean that it _is_ emulation.
There is no host platform. No translation of instructions native to the target system to software routines on the host. No representation of the target platform's RAM, ROM, registers and flip-flops being simulated as arrays in the host's memory. Accurate or not; for better or worse, an FPGA core IS the target system - and that's why IMHO, it's not emulation.
Posted from my IBM 5150 emulator.
Best explanation have seen so far. - I read online that when using the SNAC to connect a MegaDrive controller to the "special" USB on the IO-board, I need to switch a jumper, or the whole thing can go up in smoke? - Cant I just use a daemonbite adapter & plug it into the USB-Hub? - I was thinking of just starting with the DE-10 & figuring that out first, but maybe I at least lead IO also.
Many USB devices work with MiSTer, so you might be able to do just that. Using USB controllers does introduce some amount of lag due to how its polling works, but you can increase the polling rate to decrease the input latency.
@@retrobitstv - whats the alternative to USB though? - I heard the latency on the daemonbite is very low, 95% land on the same frame.
@@brentgreeff1115 With the SNAC add-ons, it's as if the original controllers are connected to the original systems, mitigating any additional latency. But the downsides there are the controllers don't work to control the menus or with other cores. Myself, I'm perfectly happy using a USB controller and don't have the reaction time or play the types of games that require such precise timing in the first place! All this talk of latency is purely academic as far as I'm concerned :)
@@retrobitstv - for me, sonic on a CRT is a completely diff experience than playing on a flat panel. - sometimes I make a mistake & reverse direction. on a crt I can feel the instant change. - I cant even play sonic on a LCD - it has no appeal. - My CRT is in storage at the moment while I travel. - I want to see how close OLED will get me & thanks for the info - SNAC might be the way to go for me.
liked and subbed! great video. Would you mind sharing the amazon link voor de power splitter cable? Also I was wondering which voltage / amperage the DE-10 power adapter needs to be? I've ordered mine but I guess this will have an US power connector? To save me the hassle of convertors I would order an European adapter :)
Thanks and welcome! My power splitter came along with the USB board, but you can order one separately here: misteraddons.com/collections/all
The power supply the DE-10 ships with is 5V/2A center positive and is good enough for my purposes but if you need to power a lot of USB accessories or something, you may want something stronger that can supply 4 amps (or more). People in the community seem to like the Mean Well supplies, such as GST25A05-P1J which takes a standard 3 pole power cable.
@@retrobitstv awesome thanks again!!
try to get a de10-nano board at this time (nov'21) pretty rare to find and expensive
Great video! How did you capture the footage at the same time as demonstrating? Is it possible to play on a CRT for instance whilst capturing to a HD cap card ? :) thanks
Thanks! Yup, that's exactly how I've got it set up. The SCART cable connects to a SyncSlayer2 which lets me output to two different devices at once, with my capture device connected to the SS2's HD15.
@@retrobitstv that’s awesome exactly what I want to do for streaming as I dislike having to currently play my retro consoles through a HD monitor all stretched whilst streaming. This would be great. Thanks for the fast reply, you just earned yourself a sub my friend
@@retrobitstv ah I was wondering why you made that SCART cable, I was scratching my head through that section. :D
I really do like all these options coming to the market each with their own ups and downs.
BUT
You just cannot beat original hardware. Not for me personally anyway!
Top video man!
mister can also replicate early 32 bit consoles, such as sega Saturn and ps1 (under development)
I don't know if this is out yet. If it is ill eat my hat though :)
@@robbystrange4772 they're not out but they're booting games already.
Great primer! I just got my setup a month ago. Still learning, and have some systems running, while others need work. Can someone point me to where I can find instructions for where certain files, like BIOS files I have, go into specific directories? Thanks!
Check out the RetroDriven script that Justin Rice mentioned in his comment. It will populate all of the Arcade systems with all the files you need, including the game ROMs. You can find that at github.com/RetroDriven/MiSTerMAME .
Each console/computer core is unique and may have their own requirements (like providing a Kickstart ROM for Minimig). You'll have to consult each core's github page to see if there are any special setup steps required. Good luck!
I would go with the Update All script at github.com/theypsilon/Update_All_MiSTer as the guy behind the Retrodriven script is planning to drop support soon.
Fantastic video. I plan on going all in when it has stuff like CPS-3 (street fighter 3rd strike) and some of the later Cave shooters.
Really want to use a MiSTER as my arcade set up, so going to wait until it has the arcade games I'm after.
Thanks! CPS-1.5 just dropped publicly yesterday so... progress. Love how something is always new in the MiSTer community!
So I play on the Pi abit, but then I went and hooked up my TG16 to my crt TV... then went back to the Pi... I never noticed the input lag till now lol
Thank you for this video! I could name 2 other popular TH-camrs that had videos on showing these but wouldn't go into price. I figured it out and posted it on their channel. I told them why would i pay this much for what you got? It was based on what they had of course. You can buy it cheaper with less things. It is funny that they never replied when i asked how much is the total? You didn't show that in your video? I guess they want the clicks on their video.
Yea, a complete setup is quite a bit more expensive than other options out there and I think a $35 Pi 3b+ with Retroarch is probably enough to satisfy many people who just want to dabble in emulation a bit. I was on the fence about taking the plunge due to the cost, but when it arrived as a birthday gift, well, who could turn that down?
If you’re into wall mounted arcade cabinets, I build them at Umbrella Arcades, including DIY frames.
Will it read a 128g SD card?
Thanks for the information.
Have a Happy New Year!
Yes, 128GB should be fine. Anecdotally, people are running 512GB cards without trouble. Some brand/model cards seem to have difficulty with the MiSTer, but as long as you stick with a reputable brand you'll probably be in good shape. Thanks, Happy New Year to you too!
@@retrobitstv Thanks for the reply!
Happy New Year!
That's a cool build and device, but I'd be curious to see a blind test where you have people play the same games on this hardware and a normal emulator without knowing which one they're playing on and see if they can even tell which is which, or even if one feels better than the other. I know that's not the end all be all reason for using this setup, but it is one of the main selling points for why you would, so it would be interesting to see if the claim holds up under an unbiased test...
I can tell you with my reaction time it wouldn't matter and I couldn't tell! I've only ever encountered one emulator (on my PC) that had latency bad enough to prevent me from finishing the game due to one specific set of jumps (Super Mario 3). I don't tend to play the kind of games that need that kind of accuracy anyway :)
Great video! i m now ready to assemble, when my setup parts arrive...just need the scart cable for my consumer CRT that can do PAL and NTSC. as i understood you, there is the option to define the parameters of the cable in the general configuration of the mister (ini), so i dont need to worry about the different cores, right? after googeling, i read something about soldering in one resistor, but im totally unsure if that is necessary at all. a friend of mine will do the assembly of the cable and therefore needs the pinout. can you send me yours or put a link somewhere ? that would be of great help since i am a total newbie :) merci!
Correct, you can set all the parameters in the mister.ini file. Depending on your display, you may need to add the resistor. If your CRT uses TTL level sync, it should be fine without. You can also purchase a SCART cable for the MiSTer pre-made. ultimatemister.com/product/rgb-scart-cable/ If you want to make it yourself, this pinout might help misterfpga.org/viewtopic.php?t=1496 but it's not the one I used.
@@retrobitstv i was able to find a cable in an european shop, so i ordered that. Thank you so much for your answer...its nice to find such informative and structured videos from people like you :)
Something so expensive shouldn’t be so difficult to buy. I see the promise. I do want one. But i dont think the tech has hit the sweet spot yet.
My set-up now is:
Trinitron TV $20
Raspberry pi 3b with a decent 240p image $30
Official composite cable $14 ish
The experience is quite comparable to this for far far less, while also being vastly more user friendly and convenient.
So i will wait.
do all the dip switches need to be down? can you go over the dip switch options please!
On the de-10 nano itself, all the dip switches can be left in their default factory state. On mine, SW0 - SW3 are all in the down (away from the CPU) position. SW10 (1-6) are 101011 respectively. The purpose of each switch is defined in the user manual www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive_download.pl?Language=English&No=1046&FID=1c19d1d50e0ee9b21678e881004f6d81
How did you connect to the Commodore 1084 S monitor via vga? Did you use a special cable or adapter? Let me know.
If the scandoubler is disabled in the mister.ini file, you'll get RGB output on the VGA connector of the I/O board at each core's native resolution, which is 15Khz for many systems (like the Amiga, SNES, Genesis, arcades, etc.). This is why the 1084S works for these. Some, like ao486, output VGA natively at 31Khz which will not work, but you can do some tricks to force it to 15Khz also. I do have a custom cable setup that I talk about at the end of Episode 33 here th-cam.com/video/NzVJnB5nbEI/w-d-xo.html
The video is actually pretty good, but I'd like to point out the usual misconception that always goes with discussing FPGAs - they're NOT "behave exactly like the original hardware". They work the way you program them, the same way as software emulators. If something wasn't implemented, or implemented incorrectly - it won't magically work just because "it's FPGA". The only thing why FPGAs are theoretically better is indeed zero lag with input and output, but realistically a pretty close results can be achieved with software emulators too, with correct implementation and running environment. Gotek/FlashFloppy is a pretty good example of software emulation that runs decent enough to emulate FDDs in real time and work more or less "exactly like the original" FDD.
And because FPGA is more or less just another way to emulate the hardware, it's hard to agree with comparing it to buying actual hardware systems since it's absolutely not the same. You can compare raspi3 the same way and have even more significant difference.
Also, FPGA implementation is NOT in any way more accurate than software emulation. FPGA cores aren't magically write themselves while being true to the original hardware. They're written by people and could (and do) have the same imperfections and mistakes like the software emulators do. So this is just completely wrong statement right there.
But, anyway, thank you for some current information about the MiSTer, it's been a while since I tinkered with it the last time.
Great point, and something I should have been more clear about. There's always a handful of things I wish I put in the video in hindsight!
The part at 14:00 confuses me slightly, Do you need to upload the softwares and disk images to something (sd card?) before you can run the cores? Or can I just turn it on and play all available games from any of that huge list of cores (referring to the consoles etc rather than the pc type cores)
If the former, how much effort/time does it take to get the software and things sorted to use a core and where are those disk images you refer to?
Each core is different, some require a BIOS file to be copied to the sdcard, some do not. Most will require some form of software to be copied, be it a disk image or a ROM cartridge image. Each core has their own GitHub page that explains the unique setup requirements. For arcade cores, however, simply running the Update All script will get you all the cores as well as the ROM files and those will just work. For consoles, you can download entire collections of ROM files from archive.org or elsewhere.
@@retrobitstv thanks for the reply, I was looking at the GitHub list of files for cores, am I right in thinking that the library of games available for that console core are all packaged together? (That’s how it appeared to me),
And am I likely to need different sd cards to hold all these bios files and software images or will many many cores fit on one sd card?
@@Rockabillyrabbit Most cores do not contain any game software, just what's needed to start up the computer/console itself. If you run the Update All script, you will get all of the latest cores on your MiSTer, but you'll still need to add game ROMs yourself. I use a single 128GB sdcard and it works fine for my needs, but I don't put every game ever made for every console I play, it wouldn't fit that (especially when you start adding CD-Rom based games for the 486, PC Engine CD, etc.). I only add games I want to play specifically and leave the complete archives on my PC.
Dude, where did you get that Gorilla Pod-type project holder with the alligator clips? That thing is unsightly as hell but surely great. I'm soo tired of the one I have, it's basically useless.
It's a little fussy getting the clips into exactly the right position but for certain tasks it gets the job done :) amzn.to/3CeDDgW
The HDMI output is as good as something like OSSC or Retrotink for input lag? Essentially zero lag?
Mister's HDMI output is very good, less than 1 frame of latency from what I've read.
@@retrobitstv Nice! I'm SO tempted for this thing!
You forgot to turn off the crop overscan. Your CRT is cropping out part of the image
What size SD card do you recommend for the DE-10 board and also I noticed on my I/O(analog card), the other side(single row) connector has no pins....is that normal? Also on the I/O(analog card), there is another SD card slot( or it looks like one)...will I need an SD card for that slot as well or is that even an actual SD card port?
For the SD card, it really depends on your use case. A complete set of ROMs for the Neo Geo weighs in at about 4 GB, just as an example. If you plan to use virtual hard drives with ao486/minimig or load up a bunch of CD-ROM games for cd32, pc-engine cd, etc. the 16GB card will fill up pretty fast.
It may be that the missing connector is for the user port. Do you have what appears to be a blue USB3 connector on your I/O board?
The I/O board's SD card slot is available for cores to use. I believe the X68000 core requires a second sd card for hard drive and disk images, but it's not widely used otherwise.
@@retrobitstv I do have that blue USB looking connector on the I/O board, yes. I'll add those pins then on the I/O card as I always wanted to check out the X68000. Just how large a SD card can the DE-10 handle? I just ordered a 128g SD I'll be picking up later today. Sounds like that should do fine. I have other smaller cards here like 64 g and an 8g that came with the DE-10. I think that should be fine for now if I want to play around with the X68k. I appreaciate all your help sir. I sent another email but I think you answered most of my needs here. Also there is an app for Linux called Etcher. It's a drag and drop gui based imager...I'll give that a try today and see how it works. I'll report back here to let anyone else know if they wish to have something less cumbersome than a command line method. Again... most very appreciated for the info and this excellent video. Love your other vids as well. Gives this old man retro lover lots to enjoy on my days off.
@@GORF_EMPIRE I'm not sure what the largest size it can handle is but I've heard of people using 512g fine. 128g should be fine though! Glad the video helped and enjoy your MiSTer, they are all kinds of fun!
@@retrobitstv Yeah I have to do some FTP'ing to get some images over on it. I'm messing with the classic computers for now though. At least I can code those in basic. :D
My house burned down recently maybe the mister is a better alternative to a raspi for replacing what I can't for a while outside of some incoming imports lol
Yikes, sorry to hear that! Hope you're okay!
The core I am most excited for is the PS1 core. I truly hope they are able to pull it off, as it seems like it would be quite a feat to have a fully working PS1 core in FPGA.
I was really surprised when I heard that there might actually be a PS1 core on this hardware. Fingers crossed!
@@retrobitstv Same here. I am honestly still kind of blown away by the fact that it's even possible, specially on this FPGA, as the FPGA in the MISTer really doesn't have that many logic units. The chip they used is of the lower of of it's type.
I still have my doubts that they'll pull it off, but I guess we will see. Fingers crossed as you said. It seems to be giving the devs a bit of a challenge considering how long it's been in development for now with loads of work still yet to do.
forgot to mention the heat-sink! :) that isn't standard on a from-terasic DE10-Nano
You're right, it was included as part of the I/O board kit and I forgot to mention it!
I'd get a mister if it can 240p @120hz on a vga monitor. Do you know if it's possible?
I've repurposed so many of those monitors with reteoarch doing that same video output trick. Now the picture looks like a high quality monitor, for free!
It's not something I've tried myself, but there's a very powerful configuration option called "video_mode" in the config file that can be applied universally or to individual cores. A quick search turned this up, which might fit your need:
video_mode=320,8,32,40,240,1,3,14,12380 ;320x240@120Hz (240P 4:3) ;CVT-RB
I might be one of the only ones, but I would kind of like to see a port of Linux or just straight up RetroArch for the ARM chip inside of the DE10 Nano. I wonder if you could actually get a build of Linux running on the thing, separate from the FPGA? There's no real reason to want to do this I guess, but I think it would be neat. Sure, the CPU isn't very powerful at only 800Mhz, but it has a pretty generous amount of RAM for a CPU that slow, with a whole GB of DDR3.
Is there much hope of getting some sort of similar fpga solution for fifth gen consoles in the next few years?
Select 5th gen systems may be the last that can "fit" on the de-10's FPGA. PS1 and N64 cores among others are in the works, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. The architecture for each generation gets more complicated so naturally it requires more work and time. Here's hoping!
Amazon link is not pointing to the board. It's been a long time since you could by a raspberry pi at its sticker price thanks to the chip shortage and scalping
too bad the Terasic DE-10 Nano Kits are out of stock on amazon, i blame informative videos like this one partially for the hype! :D
Save states are the only thing I'm waiting for in most cores...but on the other side of things Retroarch it's just great on lot of systems, Blastem, Bsnes, Mesen...cores that are actually highly accurate, and I should not be input lag sensitive cause I can't see difference between my 8bitdo Bluetooth controllers and my real hardware wired gameplay 🤷🏻♂️... maybe arcade cores it's the key on MisTer.
yeah it is a BEST video about MiSTer so far. excellent!
I think Mister is a great FPGA option for specific console for people who cannot stand L.A.G.
problem of MisTer is ... lack of coherent or complete guide since it is just a community / hobby project. It's not user-friendly unless you spent many hours to read.
I bought Mister a year ago since I was hoping to get a MiST alternative for Amiga & MSX emulation. It is great but ... I have to read Atari forum. All the Mister forum are not so Novice friendly. also.. it's ugly comparing to other expansive Analog FPGA devices.
I know.. nothing is perfect but I would not buy if I knew I need this much reading..
Thanks! Yea, and each core has it's own documentation and requirements but overall the installation and configuration is getting easier with time and there are more and more setup scripts that automate the heavy lifting these days too! I was thinking I might do a second video that's just a step-by-step on how to set up Minimig with a virtual hard drive image, RTG, and shared folder support from start to finish.
@@retrobitstv Yes, that would be great! also.. I never get automatic update script working for updating core, etc. I almost give up on MSX though LOL!
I agree with you, nerds unfortunately dont like questions about the basics.