There's no no shame in researching your problem. Don't reinvent the wheel. Get shit done. You can refine your design later, if it seems like it's going to work. Quick and dirty.
I tend to agree, in the sector I'm in, SolidWorks is the industry standard for engineering design. Our company is a large manufacturer of bespoke material handling equipment from multi direction forklift trucks to container shuttles, and our engineering department has been using SW from the very beginning.
Plumbers tape?!?! Surely you mean duct tape! And instead of a hunk of plywood, just use a multi-layer wad of more duct tape. Maybe embed some cigarette butts in the wad if you need more thickness. 😝
Nothing beats the versatility of a lathe and mill. Well done on the restoration of that lathe, efforts well worth spent. Enjoy those machines. Remember NO compressed air around the lathe.
An alternative method to making a 3/8's to 3/8's adapter is to take two 3/8's drive 9/16 sockets and throw a cut down chunk of allen key in between them, no welding required but should you weld it you will have better alignment and more "meat" holding it together Also the sockets you threw on the lathe are perfect for what you did there. Impact sockets are designed to be relatively soft but have more metal so they are strong. They are soft so they deform instead of shatter, which could be dangerous. Its the chrome sockets that are hardened so they last longer and don't wear out quick. Really enjoyed watching, its cool to see someone approach problems like you guys. Your craftsmanship is amazing
I love the way you guys just jump in and go for it. Congratulation and keep going. A suggestion: a 12 point socket of the proper size will drop right down onto a square nut, find it in 3/8 drive and you will have an instant fix that requires no welding.
I REALLY like this project!😀, i was wondering if this could also be made with a accu drill, instead of the air driven motor, and with some kind of clutch to engage and disengage rge drawbar....?, i will think about it!
what happens when the mill is running and the drawbar is spinning..is the air tool free running when in neutral as it always looks engaged onto the nut.
What about when you run the machine it will spin the impact driver you needed to put it on springs and have it on a liner Er system so it comes down to engage the nut and when you let go it clears the lock nut so the machining runs not engaged if that makes sense
The relationship between the low speed and high speed pulley's will change the centerline of your mounting fairly significantly, did you try both settings?
wonder if you can use square tube as the adapter might be able to use the 3d printed piece as a casting model to make an aluminium cast of the same object (think you need to make it slightly bigger to compensate for the aluminium cooling off and schrinking
A 3/8" drive 8- or 12- point impact socket would've saved you the trouble of welding... But altogether well done. Do you disengage the impact gun every time you use the mill, or do you just let the mill spin it? I've been thinking of doing this to my Sieg mill, and I don't necessarily see why you'd have to disengage it. You could always wire in an electric solenoid to cut the air supply when the spindle is turning, as an added safety measure.
I’ve seen all the videos using pneumatic cylinders and Bellevue washers, brackets, hydraulic boosters but this method is right in line with the K.I.S.S. Design criteria. Now granted, I don’t plan to use the Tormach tool holders. This is inline with my hobby machine parameters. Thanks for the video and faith in simplicity.
Very Nice!!! Thanks for sharing. Wish my PM Mill had that type of drawbar. I have to give mine a sturdy whack. I did machine a 6 spline wrench that fits my spindle through which helps get both hands more or less on the same plane which helps with loosening or tightening the drawbar. Gary 75-Year-Old Home-Shop-Machinist in Northwest Arkansas.
I bet the printed part will last forever. One thing that I would do it make something to support the weight of the air hose so it's not constantly straining the impact gun.
I agree, on both counts. However, should the 3D printed part not prove sturdy enough..... makezine.com/projects/guide-to-3d-printing-2014/metal-casting-with-your-3d-printer/ Specifically the section on "Lost-PLA Casting Of Aluminum''. Works fine with ABS, too, but burning out the ABS former prior to casting really stinks. May not be as toxic as it smells but I wouldn't bet on it. Best done outside and as far from any potential complainers as possible. There are quite a few vids on TH-cam showing the process in detail.
I went with the 7/16 because the drawbar square drive is actually 10mm where as 3/8 square only comes to 9.525mm. That's why the drawbar square is tight on the 3/8 drive socket. I would have gone with a 10mm 8 or 12 point but I didn't have one. :P
be cautious of hardened chips on your machine ways, they can do some damage, maybe make a few leather apron way covers for the future, magnets and leather and a little steel/alum and epoxy works great
Great project. A little over kill on the implementation. Not everyone has a 3D printer. To simplify, cut off both square ends with an angle grinder, alignment for welding is simple. Use a 1 mm stainless steel plate to mount the wrench via the four screws on the end of the tool. It would be great if the tool could accept the stainless steel plate between the back and the body (perhaps requiring some gasket sealer?). Otherwise four longer bolts/capscrews and four small spacers. Mount the plate to the cover as required. You have provided food for thought on implementation for my mill. 🙂
Hi, i am really impressed on how you did the modeling in Fusion 360.......the way you get the picture og the bodie into the three planes.....i am using Onshape, does anybody know if i csn do the same in Onshape?
If you have a failure on your socket try MMC 5553A54 3/8 square to 3/8 8 point. Been using one on my tormach for a year. Works great and no machining or welding to make.
Very nice and like the 3d printed holder. Instead ofmaking a adapter why didn't you use a 12 point socket? On my pm25mv I use the tormach holders with the r8 adapter and spring washers with the stock draw bar. Then use a cordless drill to loosen and tighten the draw bar. eventually when I can get the time I will be building it so I can use a air cyclinder.
Maybe you should use a rubber claw coupling (or somthing similar, that is able to compensate the minimal axis offsets) between the two sockets, otherwise there are a lot of indefinite stresses in the material.
I'm thinking about making my own conversion, looks like the pm30 is the most capable for the money? Also! You should do a how to make an automatic tool changer for it next!!
I suppose, there is no right or wrong way to do this, but, many simply either make or buy a new drawbar, that has a hex head, and they simply use a socket, and done. Yours may be different?
The only problem I see is that the nut runner is engaged all the time, and will wear out. You can make it to slide into the spindle, that way it will be only in contact with the drawbar when it needs to
Just curious ...since you needed a 3/8-3/8 female how come you didn't just weld 2 3/8 sockets together?...you have a lathe cut the socket part off face and chamfer then weld?..admittedly it would be difficult to cut through the chrome llating but not impossible
Carbide inserts work pretty well on hardened steel at slow speeds. The only reason to soften the steel would be if you had to use HSS tooling like a drill or if you needed to bend it.
When I saw your double adapter Idea I thought maybe one of those gimmicky fits all sockets with the spring loaded pins inside. That way you would not have to align the impact when you wanted to remove the draw bar. Not really an issue on your bench top mill, but on a taller mill that the draw bar is above your head it would make it so you would not have to align it by feel.
I wanted to build this, so I ordered the impact driver and found the perfect socket adapter for my PM-25mv. Both are available on Amazon. Search there for Grey Pneumatic 1010FP 3/8" drive x 5/16" square socket. My PM25 must have a different drawbar, because it is 5/16", NOT 3/8". Check yours to be sure. You can order the 1012FP for 3/8" if you have that size or 1011FP for 11/32". It will not be as long as the welded up one he made, so it will not clear the motor housing facing forward. As for that detail and the printed part, doesn't matter, just pick it up, use it, then put it down. There is no need for the printed part at all. My dial is set at #6@100 PSI. END THE MADNESS AND GO BUY ONE OF THESE THINGS! This should be included with every PM-25.
ABS is very easy to solvent weld. You can dunk the whole part in acetone and that will better fuse the layers together. I've sprayed parts with brake cleaner to achieve a similar effect if you dont have a bucket of solvent around.
Small efficiency improvement.. Get a portable air tank to connect to and mount it to the side of the mill so then you won't have the hose running to the mill but only to refill the tank.
Wow Nice work looks great! I usually grind through the hard part, or stock up on carbides. and keep a carbide specifically for roughing through hard stuff.
Wow I really admire your Fusion360 skills. That part is a thing of beauty!! If you need to make it stronger you can alway use carbon fibre reinforced nylon like NylonX or some similar product.
"How to join two bodies in Fusion 360" was a great touch. Very very relatable. It's how I'm making it through college.
There's no no shame in researching your problem. Don't reinvent the wheel. Get shit done. You can refine your design later, if it seems like it's going to work. Quick and dirty.
Risky opinion time. I feel like Fusion 360 is the CAD equivalent of mobile gaming.
I tend to agree, in the sector I'm in, SolidWorks is the industry standard for engineering design. Our company is a large manufacturer of bespoke material handling equipment from multi direction forklift trucks to container shuttles, and our engineering department has been using SW from the very beginning.
3D printed hold is lot more elegant then my first thought for mounting it, a hunk of plywood and plumbers tape.
Plumbers tape?!?! Surely you mean duct tape! And instead of a hunk of plywood, just use a multi-layer wad of more duct tape. Maybe embed some cigarette butts in the wad if you need more thickness. 😝
Piece of threaded rod and a hose clamp is where i was going
I was thinking use the bolts holding it together and a simple bent sheet bracket....
yea, but that was 10x cooler than a pipe clamp with rubber grommet. I liked the fusion 360 modeling using the image. Nice work as usual!
adam03957 ^ this 👍
12 point socket work on square heads, instead of making the adapter.
Nothing beats the versatility of a lathe and mill. Well done on the restoration of that lathe, efforts well worth spent. Enjoy those machines. Remember NO compressed air around the lathe.
An alternative method to making a 3/8's to 3/8's adapter is to take two 3/8's drive 9/16 sockets and throw a cut down chunk of allen key in between them, no welding required but should you weld it you will have better alignment and more "meat" holding it together
Also the sockets you threw on the lathe are perfect for what you did there. Impact sockets are designed to be relatively soft but have more metal so they are strong. They are soft so they deform instead of shatter, which could be dangerous. Its the chrome sockets that are hardened so they last longer and don't wear out quick.
Really enjoyed watching, its cool to see someone approach problems like you guys. Your craftsmanship is amazing
yea or you can buy 3/8 3/8 8 point thats what why they make 8 points, but it not 3/8 its 10 m and a guy just link to a square 10mm
Or buy a 3/8 square socket. No modification needed.
I love the way you guys just jump in and go for it. Congratulation and keep going. A suggestion: a 12 point socket of the proper size will drop right down onto a square nut, find it in 3/8 drive and you will have an instant fix that requires no welding.
Next step: Redesign it to retract, so the impact wrench is not constantly engaged to the drawbar nut.
Best auto draw bar I've seen yet. Not the most complicates but that's what makes it great. Done well.
Dude... Lovely. Just started watching your videos a few weeks ago and love the style and approach to making! Well done.
Thank for the power draw bar plans, it’s finished and its awesome!
I REALLY like this project!😀, i was wondering if this could also be made with a accu drill, instead of the air driven motor, and with some kind of clutch to engage and disengage rge drawbar....?, i will think about it!
Any chance you can share the stl for this again? The link does not want to work for me.
Very cool setup. What about the spindle turning the impact? Just wondering how that would work.
It must be really great and satisfying to have all this kit and the ability to use it.
You Guys are awesome! Brilliant work and Ideas.
Still waiting for the surface grinder to level the lathe's rails... But all the videos in between have been a great intermission xD
Fantastic Guys! love the simple builds that make sense. Cheers, Troy
what happens when the mill is running and the drawbar is spinning..is the air tool free running when in neutral as it always looks engaged onto the nut.
sorry just watched the bit about bringing the quil down an inch and locking it to disengage it.
Nice work ! Worked out well and looks like a great solution.
The STEP file/STL isn't accessible. Anyone got a link?
What about when you run the machine it will spin the impact driver you needed to put it on springs and have it on a liner Er system so it comes down to engage the nut and when you let go it clears the lock nut so the machining runs not engaged if that makes sense
Ok, I complete mine with a 3/8 drive and a 10mm square pipe cap fitting. Works so well, thank you, thank you.
I was thinking broaching for the first part but the socket adapters are probably the quickest solution. Also that 3d print is slick. Well done!
What’s happening with the surface grinder?
any plans for when a collet is used with an endmill (not a holder) as you need to tap the drawbar down to release the clamping force on the endmill
derp i guess if the impact is held ridgid it would push it out the bottom
This mill also has a retaining nut that does the same thing, I tried to explain that in the beginning of the video, but it wasn't super clear
didn't expect it will look so neat!
The relationship between the low speed and high speed pulley's will change the centerline of your mounting fairly significantly, did you try both settings?
Love this concept!! where is the .Stl file for the mount available please.....
Thanks!!!
wonder if you can use square tube as the adapter
might be able to use the 3d printed piece as a casting model to make an aluminium cast of the same object (think you need to make it slightly bigger to compensate for the aluminium cooling off and schrinking
I just bought the Neiko impact tool how do I buy your mount you made for it
Thanks
I use Fusion 360 but I can not get your Fusion 360 model (3-D) I have the same milling machine, thanks.
What size bolts did you use? And did you have to tap the holes? Or did the threads make themselves into the plastic?
what are you doing to prevent cross-threading of the drawbar? praying?
Where is the spindle lock mechanism to hold the spindle so it doesn't spin?
A 3/8" drive 8- or 12- point impact socket would've saved you the trouble of welding... But altogether well done.
Do you disengage the impact gun every time you use the mill, or do you just let the mill spin it? I've been thinking of doing this to my Sieg mill, and I don't necessarily see why you'd have to disengage it. You could always wire in an electric solenoid to cut the air supply when the spindle is turning, as an added safety measure.
Simple yet elegant. I like it. 👍
and forgetting to lower and lock the quill yields what result?
did you give up on rebuilding the lathe? last I saw, you were going to scrpe the beds
That came out very nice indeed, great job!
This is awesome! Love the simplicity!
I’ve seen all the videos using pneumatic cylinders and Bellevue washers, brackets, hydraulic boosters but this method is right in line with the K.I.S.S. Design criteria. Now granted, I don’t plan to use the Tormach tool holders. This is inline with my hobby machine parameters. Thanks for the video and faith in simplicity.
Anyone else enjoy the poetry of drilling holes right through the caution label?
Very Nice!!! Thanks for sharing. Wish my PM Mill had that type of drawbar. I have to give mine a sturdy whack. I did machine a 6 spline wrench that fits my spindle through which helps get both hands more or less on the same plane which helps with loosening or tightening the drawbar.
Gary 75-Year-Old Home-Shop-Machinist in Northwest Arkansas.
I bet the printed part will last forever. One thing that I would do it make something to support the weight of the air hose so it's not constantly straining the impact gun.
I agree, on both counts. However, should the 3D printed part not prove sturdy enough.....
makezine.com/projects/guide-to-3d-printing-2014/metal-casting-with-your-3d-printer/
Specifically the section on "Lost-PLA Casting Of Aluminum''. Works fine with ABS, too, but burning out the ABS former prior to casting really stinks. May not be as toxic as it smells but I wouldn't bet on it. Best done outside and as far from any potential complainers as possible. There are quite a few vids on TH-cam showing the process in detail.
Cool! With R8 cone it's OK, but will it work with Morse cone?
It would loosen the drawbar, but you would probably still need to give it a tap to break the taper out
Awesome setup! I've got the same mill! I've found a 7/16 SAE 12 point socket fits the drawbar perfectly. I'm gonna try the same setup.
always can use a 3/8 drive 3/8 8 point socket would have more contact.
I went with the 7/16 because the drawbar square drive is actually 10mm where as 3/8 square only comes to 9.525mm. That's why the drawbar square is tight on the 3/8 drive socket. I would have gone with a 10mm 8 or 12 point but I didn't have one. :P
well shit show what i know i thought that would be 3/8.
I just bought this.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008TOHA6Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
How well does that mill work
Like what’s the tolerants
be cautious of hardened chips on your machine ways, they can do some damage, maybe make a few leather apron way covers for the future, magnets and leather and a little steel/alum and epoxy works great
Great project. A little over kill on the implementation. Not everyone has a 3D printer.
To simplify, cut off both square ends with an angle grinder, alignment for welding is simple. Use a 1 mm stainless steel plate to mount the wrench via the four screws on the end of the tool. It would be great if the tool could accept the stainless steel plate between the back and the body (perhaps requiring some gasket sealer?). Otherwise four longer bolts/capscrews and four small spacers. Mount the plate to the cover as required. You have provided food for thought on implementation for my mill. 🙂
Another great project. Fusion 360 is such a great tool. You make it look too easy lol
Really like your approach to this project. Looks totally professional and not out of place compared to some botch attempts out there
I just tried 3/8 drive 11mm 12pt socket works pretty well as the adapter. It'll save a lot of works.
Is there a place to pay for the 3d printed impact driver mount? It seems to be unavailable on your page.
Did you grind the ways on that lathe yet?
Hi, i am really impressed on how you did the modeling in Fusion 360.......the way you get the picture og the bodie into the three planes.....i am using Onshape, does anybody know if i csn do the same in Onshape?
Did you just tap those holes in the ABS?
Yup, I found with a heavy wall thickness and a light duty application, this can be pretty strong
Good to hear. I was thinking that a pocket for a square nut could be left in 3D print, but you'd have to pause the print to insert it.
Can't believe you drilled right through that caution label.
John Baker YOLO!
SCREW THE NANNY STATE!!!!
Nowhere on it did it say: "CAUTION: Don't drill through this label"
Oh no, now you are not safe because you cannot see the caution label............roll out the cotton wool.
It's ok, they had all of the required safety gear on while they did it
Nice addition to the mill. Did the air tool come with specs that could tell you what the torque it puts out as certain air pressures?
That spindle motor is such a little cutie
If you have a failure on your socket try MMC 5553A54 3/8 square to 3/8 8 point. Been using one on my tormach for a year. Works great and no machining or welding to make.
Mmmm aa bit late to comment, but well does the machine spine the impact driver too...once you restart the mill
.....?
Is there a different link?
Elegantly done!
Great job. Love your work.
What brand and model is the bandsaw you have there
Awesome set up. I just bought the LMS 5500 series mill and will have to do this although my R shoulder is getting pretty buff right now.
Very nice and like the 3d printed holder. Instead ofmaking a adapter why didn't you use a 12 point socket?
On my pm25mv I use the tormach holders with the r8 adapter and spring washers with the stock draw bar. Then use a cordless drill to loosen and tighten the draw bar. eventually when I can get the time I will be building it so I can use a air cyclinder.
thats why they make 8 point socket for 3/8 square nut/bolt
Maybe you should use a rubber claw coupling (or somthing similar, that is able to compensate the minimal axis offsets) between the two sockets, otherwise there are a lot of indefinite stresses in the material.
I'm thinking about making my own conversion, looks like the pm30 is the most capable for the money? Also! You should do a how to make an automatic tool changer for it next!!
I suppose, there is no right or wrong way to do this, but, many simply either make or buy a new drawbar, that has a hex head, and they simply use a socket, and done. Yours may be different?
Your not worried about crossthreading?
How do I get access to the mount model?
Nice and easy build
Given the torque is limited, the plastic should be reasonably ok
The only problem I see is that the nut runner is engaged all the time, and will wear out. You can make it to slide into the spindle, that way it will be only in contact with the drawbar when it needs to
Just curious ...since you needed a 3/8-3/8 female how come you didn't just weld 2 3/8 sockets together?...you have a lathe cut the socket part off face and chamfer then weld?..admittedly it would be difficult to cut through the chrome llating but not impossible
Can you update the permissions on the file link on your website. Id be willing to pay for the file.
I would love a 3d printer for my shop but don't know much about them yet. Which one are you using and does it come with the software you need?
Time to cast it out of aluminum?
Keep up the work and you'll blast through 100K subs in no time.
Carbide inserts work pretty well on hardened steel at slow speeds. The only reason to soften the steel would be if you had to use HSS tooling like a drill or if you needed to bend it.
always can use a 3/8 drive 3/8 8 point socket
also always can go with a Allen key socket cut off to matching the same size socket. i would go with 3/8 3/8 8 point though if you have it
When I saw your double adapter Idea I thought maybe one of those gimmicky fits all sockets with the spring loaded pins inside. That way you would not have to align the impact when you wanted to remove the draw bar. Not really an issue on your bench top mill, but on a taller mill that the draw bar is above your head it would make it so you would not have to align it by feel.
Why not 3d print a new mill with it ?
I may be wrong but I think all impact sockets and accessories are made of soft steel!
Any chance of you sharing your .STL file for the bracket (I don't use, have or want fusion 360)
I wanted to build this, so I ordered the impact driver and found the perfect socket adapter for my PM-25mv. Both are available on Amazon. Search there for Grey Pneumatic 1010FP 3/8" drive x 5/16" square socket. My PM25 must have a different drawbar, because it is 5/16", NOT 3/8". Check yours to be sure. You can order the 1012FP for 3/8" if you have that size or 1011FP for 11/32". It will not be as long as the welded up one he made, so it will not clear the motor housing facing forward. As for that detail and the printed part, doesn't matter, just pick it up, use it, then put it down. There is no need for the printed part at all. My dial is set at #6@100 PSI. END THE MADNESS AND GO BUY ONE OF THESE THINGS! This should be included with every PM-25.
That bracket sure is pretty tho! And hey the PERFECT excuse for me to finally get a 3d printer lol
Very good man .what it's program used in design?
ABS is very easy to solvent weld. You can dunk the whole part in acetone and that will better fuse the layers together. I've sprayed parts with brake cleaner to achieve a similar effect if you dont have a bucket of solvent around.
A very sleek add on. I thought that would end up more complicated.
Very well done.
Yess!
Small efficiency improvement.. Get a portable air tank to connect to and mount it to the side of the mill so then you won't have the hose running to the mill but only to refill the tank.
Why does it keep saying unauthorized?
print it solid or you can make it out of aluminum by casting. Think they sell this now?! great video bro.
Wow Nice work looks great! I usually grind through the hard part, or stock up on carbides. and keep a carbide specifically for roughing through hard stuff.
Here from Hackaday, well worth the sub!
Wow I really admire your Fusion360 skills. That part is a thing of beauty!! If you need to make it stronger you can alway use carbon fibre reinforced nylon like NylonX or some similar product.
Good stuff, I wish I had the space for a home shop of my own!
Hi nice build,I have a similar mill ,how do you find yours?Brian from Merseyside England.
Can I ask how long the 3D printing took actually?
I don't have an exact time, but slicr said it would take about 5 and half hours, but probably took another hour on top of that