You said that both sides were being dishonest. Who on the gamers side is being dishonest? I see a lot of you guys who want to be balanced claim both sides have done something wrong when you provide no evidence. Though I'm fine with trying to be balanced and there is probably someone doing something wrong. Each time I hear it said. You guys sound like you are saying it absent mindedly in an attempt to come off as balanced than actually being balanced so that you can be correct.
The fact Alyssa Mercante arguably kicked this whole mess into overdrive from goddamn Kotaku of all places had guys like me who were pushing for ethics in game journalism going: *_"OF COURSE IT'S KOTAKU. BECAUSE TIME IS AN EFFING CIRCLE."_* The funny thing about this 'GamerGate 2.0', is the only people really pushing the label with any sort of intensity for a good week or so were game journos trying to smear everyone following the SBI Detected group (which broke 300k last night and is approaching 302k as a I write this) before smaller TH-camrs in the gaming space started referring to it like that. Like Adam Jensen once said: "I never asked for this."
I don't care about the gender, sexuallity, skin color or whatever of characters. Write good characters, write good stories. That's all most of us want. Make the game truly enjoyable. It ain't rocket science. Edit: I cannot spell.
Seconded. The issue for most people isnt diversity, its bad writing and even then, the only reason its causing problems these days is because the egos of the hacks responsible cant take the critisism and lash out instead of learning something.
yea and what about how literally any time a character that is a minority is announced and there's massive backlash about "woke" this "woke" that. This is fucking constant these days. It's old and wrote. You guys can't seem to care most the time and actually very rarely consume the media anyway. I want good media but I don't cry when it's not something I'm looking forward to, I just find something else that i want and be positive instead of being negative all the time.@@marcusreading3783
Yea, the annoying bit is when people such as these use marginalized people as shields for their own toxicity and to divert criticism, which of course, puts those same marginalized people in the firing line when backlash inevitably occurs. This means that, despite what groups such as SBI like to tout, they are only really making things worse for everyone. As an autistic, this whole crap reminds me of Autism Speaks and all the damage they caused for us as a group. They claim to speak for us, and yet refuse to actually listen to us and instead force their own ideal onto us and lures the uninformed masses alongside them.
It's like writing what you know is a dead consept now. The reason why e.g. Ladykiller in a Bind was a good game was not just because it was diverse. It was also a good game. Old and more niche example would be GGACPR. E.g. Testament was confirmed to be non binary way before the Strive rerelease.
and people still whined about testament being nb in strive on release as well because of the design change or something idk it's just that people whine if it's a diverse roster in a new game but if it's diverse in an old game it's suddenly good. The same types that use this logic are the types who say that games shoudln't be political then like games like Helldivers and Bioshock, or forbid the most common one, Fallout@@Lynxiro
People: I don't want to buy your product if this company was involved. Corporations/Media: This is literally harassment! Buy our thing or you are [insert insult/slander here]! Bold strategy trying to shame people into buying your stuff, let's see how that works.
Gamergate2.0: "targeted harrasment against Sweet Baby Inc." - No "targeted harrassment by Sweet Baby Inc. Founder and employees and followers against a steam group with a private discord" - Yes
all of this happening just because one guy on steam was like "hey, i created this group to list games that are involved with X company, do with this information as you will" the manner of which this is going down is revealing a LOT about the industry and the media backing it
The fact that Kindred himself set this whole thing off by openly starting a harrassment campaign and continues to play victim while media outlets and a government funded group backs and protects him is insane
I think the reason gamers keep backlashing on forced diversity is that we’ve always had wildly diverse media and communities. My favorite game, Chrono Trigger, has a 4:3 ratio on Male to Female characters and out of the 6 character who actually have stories none of them conform to gender stereotypes. All this 30 years ago. Same with my games friend group, specifically because we don’t actually care about demographics. Write fun stories and we don’t care who’s in them. Write crap stories minorities in gaming aren’t your shield when it flops. I only see one side harassing anyone here like usual, but at least we have Community Notes dunking on them constantly this go around.
"We don’t actually care about demographics" that seems like part of the problem with the companies employing consulting firms like SBI. They aren't looking to provide representation; they're targeting a demographic. Minorities are nothing but a marketing shortcut. While the Average gamer like yourself will just play anyone in a game that's made well.
@@Mint-Lynx As a minority myself, I can definitely say I preferred it when games didn't "target" me. A character doesn't have to look like me for me to like or relate to them. Companies like SBI need to fuck off and stop using people like me as a shield.
You are literally right on the money. The whole entire problem with this company is that it invents problems in their head that don’t exist. To them, suddenly after 2018 every “minority” character in video games suddenly stopped existing and the world reverted back to the 1930s Jim Crow era and now they need to make a conscious effort to implement diverse characters in order to crusade against the racist boogeymen, and everyone else around them is giving them weird looks because it’s the 21st century and nearly every problem they scream about doesn’t exist. They act like their diversity is somehow new or revolutionary within the gaming industry, when it’s not, that’s the issue. Their mindset is built on this victim fantasy where everything and everyone around them is a nazi or a fascist, diversity never existed and it’s their duty to implement it. The truth is, it’s not even “diversity” that gamers are angry about. What they’re really angry about is “identity politics” but since the word “diversity” has pretty much become synonymous with left wing dog whistles, many gamers are starting to associate the word diversity with identity politics without worrying about whether or not politically illiterate spectators are gonna call them bigots. You see, for “woke” people, it’s not enough to just have black or gay characters in media. They need characters that specifically indulge socially inept teenage white girls on Twitter that suffer from borderline personality disorder while struggling with their sexuality.
@@Seoul_SoldierAs i see it SBI and Sh@t like it appeals to companies with little to no talent, they dont know what they want to do to make their games special... sooo... they contract or are scared into contracting SBI.
I don't even care about the politics - I'm in no position to be mad on other people's behalf. But the fact that Kindred's throwing up a political smokescreen to hide the fact that he started a harassment campaign against someone who was just listing out what games his firm worked on makes him a manchild in my book.
Also says they're not proud of their work. You don't try to shut people down through harassment and cancel culture if what you're doing is what you believe is right and helpful. What they did is confirm the suspicion that they're grifters, liars and don't give a toss about anyone but themselves.
oh I think they ARE proud of their work. They're ideologues, and believe they're 100% right. BUT they know there is growing pushback against their work, and they're clearly a "the ends justifies the means" group, so to reach their goals they have no issues with doing things stealthily.
@@Katsura_ja_nai_Zura_da "Noo! You must choose a side! You can't be normal! Definitely don't choose the another one!" Just as bad as woke ideologues I fucking swear.
"Woke" people bring up gamergate every year saying its "gamergate 2.0". They then basicly do what they did to start gamergate the first time. They get surprised pikachu that once again gamers hate their actions. "History repeats"
lets hope this time round they dont profit enough from it for round 2... i cant spell his name but night in the woods dev's widow from what rotten fragments of memory i got was mentioned as partaly funding sbi.
@@someguy4252 Oh it's far worse than that, good sir. The guy offed himself, and his *sister* is using the money his game earned to fund SBI/DIE stuff. And she's also friends and still friends with the person that cancelled him and made him end it all to begin with
Actual queer developers in some areas have also came out against this and said: "Don't market your game on your diversity, make your game diverse because that's how life is." Which is probably the most fair way to go about such things.
I also have no issue with that. Game developers should make games how they want to. Hiring an external contractor to "approve" of your story is silly. It's a waste of money, it destroys the creative process, the creative people will probably be offended and their quality of work will decline... And the customers will ask WTF happened to the game they were keen on getting and now it's something completely different.
You can tell when diversity is genuine vs pandering. Spider-Man 2 still has a Cuban flag hanging in the Puerto Rican kid’s apartment and Last of Us 2 still has a cross sitting in a Synagogue. Unfortunately the activists have targeted actually diverse games like Rimworld for not being the “correct” diverse, despite character back stories being written by trans people. There was another adventure game that got crap for “transphobia” despite having a trans writer too. It’s high school level cliques all the way down.
Mad props to those queer developers for coming out, if you'll pardon the awkward phrasing, and confidently stating the emperor has no clothes, aka "marketing games based on the studio's diversity and/or emphasizing how wonderfully diverse™ the game is a poor marketing tactic!" I say this especially given the current atmosphere of dev conferences like GDC, which to an outsider seem like you'll be forced to endure some kind of 'struggle session' for not blindly following to the latest version of the 'woke' theology. (Actually, if the panel entry I saw advertised at GDC2024, there's an entire panel called "So you've been canceled, now what?" which gives major 'struggle session' vibes.)
@@piratebear3126 "Last of Us 2 still has a cross sitting in a Synagogue." ...How the hell did they miss _that?_ LoU2's been meme'd/shit on to hell and back over decisions Naughty Dog made, but how the hell do you leave a Christian cross in a clearly marked Synagogue?
As a black man I've been quoting Adam Jensen more and more thanks to companies like SBI and my general distaste for DEI based narratives/hiring. "I never asked for this."
unknown awakening: a new game being worked on who just banned almost their entire forum so 'noone would notice' SBI involvement. A few other channels covering it with receipts.
9 times out of 10, issues like sexual orientation and gender identity have nothing to do with a piece of media, so the developers just shoehorn it in, and it makes no sense. I am what some people would call "woke". I am an enby (please no arguing about gender here, not the point of me saying this) and bisexual. I am so tired of these token characters in games, and other media, meant to represent people like me. Diversity is fine, but don't force it. Gay people exist. Trans people exist. But you don't have to force a character in to the plot and make being gay or trans that character's defining characteristic. Just because some people on twitter do that, doesn't mean it's good representation... matter in fact, that alone I think proves it's bad representation...
I agree here, inclusion is important i am the wokest motherfucker around but when its forced and 1 dimensional i feeo the oposite that my minority has been used as a tickbox and it makes me sick. Sbi is disgusting as they made remarks at akira toriyama after his death. Woke is great inclusion is great but the inclusion sbi are trying is factually doing the oppoisite and making diverse characters aweful and 1 dimenaional all for tickbox exercises
Honestly, the 'diversity' of the modern media is somehow worse than the token black dude from the 90s. At least they had a bit of personality and generally had a point to being there, even if it was just comic relief. These days, they dont even have that and are barely cardboard cutouts with voice recorders taped to them. This is not how you do diversity.
@@marcusreading3783 "Honestly, the 'diversity' of the modern media is somehow worse than the token black dude from the 90s." ....I hate how much sense this makes. But seriously, far, far too many 'diverse characters' these days come off as 1 of 2 things: void of personality or insufferable from the get-go with Mary-Sue potential written all over them. I don't know if it's just the writing quality has degraded in the industry or what, but the '1-dimensional character' is an issue I see far, far too often.
@@internetzenmaster8952 writing quality, bad writers, hiring writers whose only qualification is "diversity". When you force diversity in to the writing team, it's going to infect the writing... there's an "anime" that proves this, made BY Crunchyroll, but I forget its name. It was SO bad, but too many people were defending it, and the only reason for that was the writing team was very diverse, and the anime itself talked about the kind of stuff you would expect with that, but it was handled so badly... even without those topics, it was horrendous though.
The connections with ALL OF THIS continues to be mind blowing. All the way to the original GG situation with some of the SAME PEOPLE. I'm starting to think Gatekeeping is the only way man.
@@SidAlpha So, this little debacle happened a couple of days ago. Dead By Daylight had released a new killer, The Unknown, and the voice actor is calling foul on it being a trans stereotype, but then it seems they backpedaled their claims. Would this topic be something you would do in a video? It would help clear the room a bit & generally want to know what's going on.
It's irritating how dishonest and hostile the entire journalism sector is on this topic. They essentially insult and attack consumers for making informed choices, simply because these choices go against ESG/DEI, and the violent insertion of it into modern media without any consideration to its appropriacy. And that's exactly what I find so annoying about all this: not wanting politics in games doesn't mean we don't want any political topics in games at all. What we don't want is the preachy, finger-pointing garbage that tries to portray any kind of current ideology as an objective truth instead of what it really is: an ideal. Disco Elysium did it really well, portraying all sides as having agreeable and disagreeable aspects, and letting the player decide what they want to side with. But not only do SBI and its affiliates push this one-sided discourse, they squeeze it into many existing franchises and ruin established stories through character assassination. And when the fans complain, they immediately pull the victim card. And at the end, they walk away from the remaining dumpster fire of beloved IP's, and proudly add another career path to their Twitter bio. This is why we must gatekeep harder.
The Ballad of Gay Tony. If you want to include diversity, make it good. Don't insult us by just shoehorning stuff in to pander. It's a sign you do NOT give a shit about a community and it is only an after thought to say you care by making an empty gesture. I gave one example, there are tons more. They don't really need a consulting firm to help them tick boxes, just look at the successes and use them as a guide.
NGL I am not a fan of when someone creates something that is badly made and uses some demographical detail as a shield from criticism while failing to properly address (or giving no more than assertion against) legitimate criticism that has nothing to do with that demographic trivia. Granted, it isn't the most ubiquitous problem (I'd argue overmonetization is worse), but the fact that it happens at all is a problem IMO. Otherwise, thanks for pointing out that Denuvo Steam group, I hadn't known that was a thing and suffice to say I'm following them now, as well as a few others I just looked up.
I look back at my childhood back in the 80s then I look at today and wonder, "What the hell happen to Humanity?" I don't blame technology and advancements I blame Humans for miss using and miss treating technology. Edit: How many Gamergate 2.0 have we had so far? lol
I know, right?! I find myself missing the 80s more and more. When I first used the internet in the early 90s I thought it was the most amazing thing ...back when it was just an amazing information and conversation space. It's been warped and twisted since then, and the effect it's had on society since then is not what I could ever have imagined. So much of this fanaticism is born from internet echo chambers.
First I heard of sweet baby inc I thought it's a joke. Their name makes me shiver, like... Would this what a bunch of pdfs would call their club... I can't trust them and since what I heard about them sounds like they're manipulators
I love how EVERY time there is talk of trying to combat "extremism" , it's always the right side of the spectrum they're referring to. It doesn't matter how far left some groups go, it's freedom and justified , not extremism. I just find it odd. Probably as odd as saying that you left the instigating event out of a story you wrote , because the response was not "proportional" to the attack so it didn't bear mentioning. Like that dishonest hack did in her story. I can't remember for sure the writers name , but someone did an interview with her after her story. I may be wrong, but I think it just MAY be a little more likely that she knew adding that context wouldn't support the whole "Unprovoked attack" angle she (as most others) are pushing. Harder to sell the poor unsuspecting victim card when you mention that your "victim" ran up and kicked someone out of nowhere. Then it's karma, not trauma.
6:34 Mercante is correct about one thing: it isn't one company 'forcing diversity' into video games. There's about 12 of these DEI consultancy firms (or as they call it 'narrative design consultants') kicking around promoting/coercing/browbeating (YMMV on the method) their warped view of diversity into the industry. The fact people were only pissed at Sweet Baby Inc until a couple other DEI consultancy groups firms poked their heads up and started defending it (instead of throwing Kindred under the bus like a sane, rational company/competitor would do) _is kind of a hint that 'wokeness' is a secondary reason for why gamers are upset._
I dont care who or what the main character is, as long as the game is good. Just seems like the writing for alot of games SBI worked on was not good. Which means i’m not gonna like the game. Also, whoever keeps taking the mid stick to female characters seriously needs to stop.
You cannot have a good game if the main character doesn't comply with the world-building. The games were not good because SBI worked on them because they were not about organic world-building, they were about pushing a specific message, at the behest of both the studios and SBI. People still don't seem to understand this, and will continue to fall for these shenanigans until they're willing to stop fence-sitting and enabling bad actors. Sadly, these words will go unheeded because people would rather continue to support bad trends than speak up and risk becoming a pariah among the zeitgeist.
Game companies expect us to pay for their mistakes every quarter, yet don’t want to take us seriously and call us idiots every day… I play games for the fun of it, I don’t need politics in my video games, unless is a game about politics
I will not be buying any games that SBI has touched, or that other lady zoey, she lied and pushed someone to killing themselves, she's a horrible human being.
Sharing opinions and beliefs is reasonable. Accepting that one's own opinions and beliefs are not shared by all, nor should they be for the sake of intellectual diversity, is also reasonable. Imposing one's own opinions and beliefs on others is unreasonable, harmful, and disrespectful. Thinking one's own opinions and beliefs are gospel truths or facts is genuine insanity and potentially dangerous to others and society as a whole.
Exactly, I am all for activism and improvement of civil and social rights. But this kind of toxic and narcissistic activism is doing more to harm the progress of civil rights than help it. If a far-right dictatorship takes over, I believe part of the blame will at least lie on the shoulders of the far-left for poisoning and weakening their own movement with pointless bullshit. And I say this as someone who considers themselves liberal. Everyone throughout history who has sacrificed themselves to improve the way we treat others different from us did not die for this shit. They did not die just for us to become as toxic and horrible as the bigots on the extreme right.
Perpetual self-identified victims false flag harassment while actively partaking in harassment all in the name of DEI which is slowly but deservedly killing many names in the gaming industry. Seems like a solid summary.
As an American, I agree with you. It's the loud squeaky minority. Even so I wish devs could just make the games they want and let the customers vote with sales. The political weaponization of video games, on either side, is unethical. (NEPA Republican) (Originally a reply to a previous comment)
It's the loud squeaky minority, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And when the squeaky wheel disagrees with the LGBTQIA² cult, that wheel gets replaced instead of greased.
Damn Sid, you did a great job on this video. You remained impartial throughout the entirety of the content. I'm just sorry that everyone from Reddit or SBI's fanbase came over to try to derail or make it seem like you did something terrible. Keep up the good work!
Dude, sid is so late to the game and all he did was regurgitate what a group of other TH-camrs, many better then him have been saying since October of last year. He is bandwagoning now off Vara Dark, Yellowflash, Asmongold and Kabrutus himself ( the curator )he has added NOTHING to the conversation
@@TheRealRaddicalReggie-o9l I came over here after watching Optimus's video on the same topic, I can say that even though Optimus is popular, this video was still more informative and more compelling. There is no problem with covering a topic with relevant information even if someone else provided it beforehand. It's still worth covering.
@@jamesbond2265 Sid is not some genius, all of this was covered in depth in multiple videos by Vara Dark going back to October.. she and the stream curator Kabrutus have worked together on this and your guy Sid Alpha here is just seeing how there videos have been flying high on views so he is jumping on the Bandwagon they started pushing months ago. Utter grift, which is mostly what Sid Alpha is anyway.
@@TheRealRaddicalReggie-o9l I don't agree but you're welcome to your opinion. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I simply said he made a good video and I already told you it's not the only video on the topic.
@@TheRealRaddicalReggie-o9lYou should stop using words you don't understand, there's no grift. Only evidence and truth; and ergo thus facts. That is all that matters.
Kicker is, had the numb nuts at Sweet Baby Inc (SBI) just shut the hell up, this brouhaha (finally got a reason to use that word) would've largely blown over in a week or two. What they tried doing to Kabrutus in getting him cancelled (& now Asmongold too), they unleashed the Streisand effect. I imagine that the other game consulting companies are looking at this developing mess with keen interest. Make no mistake folks, there are other SBI type groups out there, & they won't all be as moronic as SBI is turning out to be. Vigilance is key here.
Fun fact whole GDC panel was all about inclusivity, diversity and D&E ... Almost no mention on game deveopment. And comments from videos are locked out ...
The key thing Diversity should not be a checklist for corpo's to fulfill in order to avoid alienating/losing customers. The Majority of peeps against SBI are not against Diversity in games but they want that diversity to be natural and make sense for the context of the game and narrative, not shoehorned in to placate a loud zelous minority. Most people who are "Minorities" or "other" (Not good terms I know but I didn't want to over specify) are just regular people who have regular lives and don't care significantly about what other people are doing as long as it's not directly harmful to them or those around them. As all people would do regardless of their background or personal beliefs would support better representation for those who's existence is repressed especially if they themselves have a personal connection there is the loud zelous minority in all groups who base their entire existence around the hill they want to die on. This in itself is not directly a bad thing but it's from this extreme corner of views that the highest chance of harm to others is perpetrated.
It should not, but we have seen over and over again that big companies do not do too well on their own... Companies like SBI (and trust me there are tons of them out there) came to be because companies found them self woefully underequipped to handle a world where there was not a monolithic cultural space. So until the pendulum swings back and companies start taking responsibility themselves These sort of companies are needed and as such you are sooner or later going to get one that cocks up...
To think, if Kindred would have just never said anything, everyone would be like they were last year. Knowing these companies exist and just not caring. The mentality was "It is what it is." to now being "We may be able to do something about this." and we have Kindred to thank. Another thing worth noting is that a huge majority of names specifically from GG1 made a return after their decade long hiatus for GG2. All except the three main players of it that is. Everything involving SBI's defense network is overwhelming suspicious to the point that if your brain doesn't start doing conspiracy theory string connecting on a mental white board then it may potentially be broken. Also I want to point out the ones screaming that they are victims constantly call gamers many things divulging their idea that to them gamers are all racist/sexist/and phobic. When in reality, if you look, notice and or talk to a good majority of people in SBI Detected, we are more than likely the most diverse group gaming has ever seen.
It's like a reader making a list of books they don't like from an author and then that author upon finding out, gets butthurt, and goes after the reader. Nevermind the fact that all this information is public and useable under the fair use act. I mean why are we letting full grown adults get rewarded (ie chris kindred and his army) for bad behavior. Good Job on calling that ninnyhammer out SidAlpha!
What you said at the end is true. We all need to start voting with our wallets. There are plenty of games from the past that we can play without buying new ones. Just know that if we could stop buying new ones, gamers could last year's without buying new games. Devs and companies like SBi can not go years without us buying them.
All these journos without a sliver of moral integrity proves beyond any reasonable doubt that the core idea behind GamerGate 1.0 was well founded. Too bad it got derailed by a fringe of bad faith actors (a lot of "gamers" unfortunately). Things kept getting worse and I'm not surprised to see a GG 2.0 and more in the future if we don't stop this nonsense right now...
You know SBI is quite the company when Elon Musk calls them "an evil blight" . Let alone one of the disgusting people working at SBI(Chris Kindred) disrespecting the late Akira Toriyama just hours after his passing. As if this individual will ever achieve what Toriyama-sama did for decades.
There are two things I have noticed over the past couple days pertaining to the article on Verge. The statements Ash made in the article when compared to the statements she made that other people posted on Twitter, tend to contradict each other. Not only that, but the article on Verge contradicts itself, but it might be hard to notice since the paragraphs that do this have been separated by other paragraphs. One other thing I have noticed, is that all of the articles made, tend to have differing information on what actually happened, sometimes just ever so slightly.
"How can you hate diversity and inclusion" today is an _awful_ lot like "why do you hate our freedom" circa 2001. The vast majority of the people such accusations are lobbed at, don't. But they _might_ have a problem with the grotesqueries perpetuated under the cover of seemingly benign and positive words. And the utter failure of those who lob the accusations to interrogate what they're actually defending is masking indulgence in the pleasure that comes with the power of being part of a mob.
I know there's a lot of people who are 'tired' of this. They just want it all to stop. This is exactly the reaction that is wanted. The people who profess to take neither side of this little kerfluffle and just want it to go away need to listen, and re-listen, and then listen once more for good measure to the last three minutes or so of this video- starting at 15:50. Because a lot of these same people will do exactly what you describe. They'll whine about bad, buggy games, bad business practices, predatory practices, and anti-consumer behavior without recognizing that THEY are the ones feeding this behavior because at the end of the day 'new shiny thing from big name brand or studio must be bought and played'. There is some hope on the horizon. We've got games like Palworld and Helldivers that are absolutely tearing it up (neither of which I play but... for my own reasons) and showing that good, popular games can come without needing to pander to investment firms, nor have the ginormous budget of modern AAA dev studios. Good. We need more examples of that. But ideologically speaking there is definitely a side that wants the 'middlemen' as it were to throw up their hands and scream 'JUST MAKE IT GO AWAY!'. That side has shown that they are all too willing to whisper 'Oh, I can... I just need your permission to do what must be done'. And if that permission is granted... that never ends well.
God, this shit is so weird to me. i tend to keep out of gaming conversations on topics like this because they just get insufferable on both ends, but like, "I got booted out bc im a journo and they were posting tame shit they like in their own private discord and i dont agree with it" is the most pathetic shit i've ever heard, my lord. Partisan arguments are bad for ones mental health but I think my girl at kotaku needs to get hers checked out for different reasons Good video as always boss
I'm glad I've never had such a narrow scope of imagination that I need characters to be the same gender, color, sexuality, or even species as I am in order to identify with or relate to them.
And yet i have seen people loose their proverbial shit over a stuka having the wrong sized of bombs or that Chris Clogbottom did not play for the bikinibottoms buckaneers this or that season or that the Snuffville snacks had the wrong shade of lilac on their jerseys.... So while you are a golden paragon... trust me when i say people get upset over way less trivial things than ones entire cultural heritage being mis-represented....
DEI in gaming, to me, should come NATURALLY, not forcefully including it in your titles. In my opinion, a good example would be Baldurs Gate 3; can't get much more diverse than the characters in that. - A Githyanki female protagonist with a views that her duties are the only importance in life. - A Half-Elf with no clue about her past in a journey of true self discovery to learn of her past life. - A flamboyant Rogue Vampire who is quite charming who desires to rid himself of a curse bestowed upon him by dealing with the one who bestowed it upon him. - A wizard with a power complex and an etheral dommy mommy issue that needs to be resolved. - A one-eyes sorcerer who's out to clear his debt to his sponsor who granted him that power. - A hulking druid that seeks to bring balance to the forces and seeks adventure with you and your party for, pun intended, greener pastures. In addition to OTHER companions you can meet and group up with, not to mention your own CaC or an optional storyline CaC! Diverse, as fuck. Plenty of inclusion. As far as equity goes, I got all my money's worth thanks to said flamboyant vampire making me laugh my ass off.
Wow, honestly this is really interesting. Im genuinely staggered by the support for SBI and DEI in games in the comments. Especially with the eroding triple A game space aswell and the thriving indie/ double A space. I just cant understand why people prop up what is obviously not doing well. Even if you like what SBI does, the track record is turd games. Whether its their fault or not is honestly irrelevant, an obvious pattern has presented itself. So until these groups can make a good game or get fizzled out because they go out of business, me and others like me will just stick to our Palworlds and Helldivers. We just want good games.
Alan wake and spiderman 2 were generally considered to be at the very least good games so i dont believe SBI is the reason for the bad games. The main problem is the fact that people are not telling them that what Chris did was uncalled for. That steam group was just made for a bunch of haters and he shouldve just ignored it instead of going after them. Like it or not, them circlejerking was within their rights as consumers. Chris is a dickhead and while i do believe there should be more diversity in games, it should be more organic. Why not prop up developers who have diverse ideas instead of forcing others to do it for them ?
The blame probably lies somewhere between the consultant advice SBI is giving and the game writers' ability to create a good character and story around it. When you have a character show up and immediately introduce themselves as (insert race/culture/gender identity here), it's just cringy bad writing. These teams should be working together, writing a story that introduces the player to characters naturally and letting us learn who that character is through the story.
@@StealthyJimIt's not about that for them, it's about normalising a specific message until people accept it wholesale without question, sort of like how gamers over a decade ago threw a fit with horse armour, but today they are fine with seasonal DLC, battle passes, season passes, deluxe DLC, digital premium packs, shark cards, etc., etc., etc. A decade from now the average "gamer" will be defending the multiple companies like SBI any time they get criticised, and stuff like Forspoken will be the norm.
@@Billy-bc8pkI don't think the two situations are all that comparable. The backlash against anti-consumer monetization was far more unified, because it was blatant corporate greed coming from the publishers. It was clear where the problem was. There were even a couple incidents where developers spoke out against what corporate higher-ups and publishers forced into their games. But it was never accepted without question, because peopled have continued pushing back up till today. It just continues happening because people keep buying the games after/while complaining. If enough vote with their wallet, there will be change. What we have today is a minority of people finding out that one "bad because woke" company had a hand in making one high-profle bad game, then attributing that failure to the wokeness. Suicide Squad didn't fail because "go woke, go broke", it failed because it's a bad game with bad gameplay and terrible "live service" crap shoveled into it. The ones complaining about SBI's involvement are the same group that were raging at games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect for having gay/lesbian romance options. The only part of this that is comparable to a decade ago, is the fact that if Suicide Squad was the most woke thing ever created, but a good video game to play, everyone would still be playing it while you guys keep on complaining. AKA "accepting" the wokeness. If SBI or DEI in general are the problem, why did God of War, Alan Wake, and Spider-man sell millions and are still regarded as top tier games? The complaints about them being woke are still there. But they have nothing to back up their claim that it's actually wokeness harming the game's industry. SS:KtJL handed them a correlation (pro tip: correlation is NOT causation) to point at, so they jumped on it. SBI is in the credits, so it's all obviously their fault. Even all the bad game mechanics and monetization they had nothing to do with.
@@Billy-bc8pkOh, and what does Forspoken have to do with any of this? It was just a mediocre game with atrocious writing and technical/performance problems. What exactly about it is the fault of DEI/wokeness?
When you think about it, this shit never really ended, it just became more subdued in some regards for a time, until now. "Gamer Gate 2" is really more of a new chapter in the same book then it is a full on sequel. The thing that honestly worries me more then triple-A games with bad writing is government powers worming their way in to regulate the industry in some manner that could ultimately harm the creative freedom of the indie sense, which is more of what I honestly care about these days.
This shit is getting so tiring. I grew up in the late 90s early 2000s, I went from being bullied for liking video games, to a brief moment in time from 2008-2013 where I was left alone, then after 2013 I was labeled a misogynistic, alt-right, white supremacist just because I like games. I just want to enjoy my favorite hobby without it getting destroyed from the inside out.
On the one hand if there’s a theme of someone not liking a game where SBI is involved then having a steam curated group listing games they’re involved in is a good help and not harassment in and of itself. On the other if you’re going to use language like ‘tainted’ that does sound like a bit more than just a ‘hey this is useful info’ group. At the end of the day though, they took corrective action and whatever lens you view that through, that’s what (or at least what should have) matters
The last time people found out these people are in private chats coordinating attacks using their platforms, something happened. Dunno what, cant know what.
If this keeps happening, those articles I mean, Gamergate 2.0 could result in the explosive death of games journalism as a whole. At least in terms of large websites. By the way, I decided today to seek out SBI Detected and join it out of sheer spite. Happened to have bought one of the games on the list, but that was before knowing it was there. Oh well.
Im fine with the consumer knowing which companies are involved in making the thing they want to buy, so they can choose to not give their money to people who hate them.
Just today we did find another game that joined Curator group. Screeching continues. They are hiding their involvement instead of being proud of it. It's getting funny. I will keep looking to add more games and just don't buy them. Attacking and gaslighting gamers, aka your potential customers, is never smart. They will pay for this financially.
Notice how the people that are against SBI are willing to discuss and talk about the current state of the industry whereas the people defending SBI are actively silencing critics and threatening their job stability and careers if they don't fall in line. Guess which one is considered an extremist group by the federal government. Also, Richie openly saying "you'll be put on a person list" is just straight up blacklisting and that is ACTUALLY ILLEGAL and him and anybody else putting names on that list could be punished for it as either a criminal or civil offense, sharing that list with other employers and people in the industry is just begging for a defamation lawsuit too for everyone whose name is on that list. He already admitted it exists on social media, if anybody could get him to say it on video then this guy is in for a world of pain in court and I hope somebody out there gets a lawyers and serves him.
Notice how you just made that up, me and many I know and follow "defend" SBI and I've actually had a hard time managing to have any discussion on the topic as the people's I've argued with so far simply go and ignore most arguments presented to them and scream about how they'll never buy any game SBI did consultancy work on which... your loss, they've worked for some good games such as Sable and Alan Wake 2 and some terrible games like the Suicide Squad one, having a consultancy group that focuses on DEI isn't what makes a game's narrative good or bad. The truth is SBI doesn't matter and companies don't do shit because of the investor's deep care for certain political opinions, they do shit for profit and are heavily unregulated, that's why games get worse and more exploitative.
@@unritardatoqualsiasi Nice of you to completely ignore and fail to mention anything about a leading member of the whole DEI movement publicly threatening with blacklisting anybody who disagrees with them. Also there's a discord server and plenty of forum threads discussing SBI and DEI and most of you "defenders" of it always ended up name calling and throwing vitriolic remarks and baseless accusations to anybody who was arguing with them. I guess you are fine in your echo chamber but in the real world, you can't convince anybody because your points and arguments are weak and full of holes at best but when confronted about this, suddenly being "reasonable" is the same as being a racist and a nazi
@@Ark_Strike Exactly what happens whenever I attempt to engage with people like you, you just assume what I believe and what I'll say, you don't intend on engaging on this matter, you simply want to think yourself better because "the other side calls people names" I haven't called you names, I haven't cast aspersions upon you or assumed you were racist. I acknowlegde there's people on both sides who are impossible to discuss with, you seem to be one of them so I'll stop wasting your time.
@@unritardatoqualsiasi First let me start off by saying this, Sable and Alan Wake 2 might look good on paper but once you dig into the reviews you see okay stories and stunning buggy messes. This is not to claim that all games are not buggy messes. The problem here is that the narrative of DEI does not fit too well into creative processes ending up with shortened 1 dimensional characters that are flat and lack substance. Further the claim of rising above calling people names as a way to seem morally superior while defending such name calling dollards is to repetitious. Your attempt at engagement might seem to some to be disingenuous, I say that mainly due in part to your attempt at pointing out its about money and not SBI and a narrative attempt. Do kindly understand that the drive to control and lower people's ability to think is the primary focus of the game and always has been. Quote from MLK, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." It still seems that some can't get past something still.
I'm all against what Sid here termed "checkbox diversity". The best counterexample in recent memory is Sirona Ryan, a transgender character in Hogwarts Legacy. But that was just one facet of her character, demanding respect by earning it, and easily the third biggest badass in the game after Professors Figg and Weasley. Sirona Ryan is how you do diversity right. Diversity is best used to increase interest in a story with well crafted characters and a good narrative. That's what SBI and their cohorts fail to realize. Plus here's the thing. Multiple studies have shown that men like looking at women and women like looking at women. Lauren from the channel "The Dadvocate" put it best. "Men like looking at pretty things too. They just like looking at them on women." So yeah. Add your black lesbian or your south Asian trans woman. But don't make that identity the entire character.
For me, this is not the beginning of GamerGate 2.0. If anything it's the continuation of a conflict that, just like the WW, has begun close to 10 years ago. And their objectives have expanded since then, because this is beyond ethics in videogame journalism and the place of women in gaming... This is an all-out cultural war with two clear sides. And those in the woke are either powerful and with more resources. A part of me wants to avoid this because videogames are our form to escape reality for a couple of hours of our daily life, but when reality and politics are injected by force into our hobbies, we have to draw the line. We've been voting with our wallets to decide the fate of these games, and rightly so. And reviews from game journalist cannot be trusted anymore. If a game is losing money and the consumer spoke with their review, it's more powerful. They're wrong the more they try pushing the narrative, and it's been proven more times than not that we didn't start the fire. But we just started firing back HARDER than in the past. The moment they say that videogames are not for us is a clear sign that the industry (both publishers, devs and journalist) have changed... And the hobby is been held hostage. And quoting Adam Jensen again: "If you want to make enemies, try to change something."
If only game journalists did journalism instead of spreading hate and lies towards the industry they are working in and the consumers they should be informing about news in said industry... But no, copy paste reddit discussions, half assed research and anything and everything just to push their own ideologies and opinions in the form of news articles, no matter what the facts are. Pretty much the only place you can find up to date and accurate gaming news, is youtube... And even then you need to rake through quite a bit garbage before you find the channels that report as factually as possible.
you know what is funny, a Content Creator recently made a video about the games "Cygames" creates and their "Gran blue fantasy Universe". their "Gacha", "Fighting game" and "JRPG game" that came out a bit over a month ago does diversity right, they even got their own "Animes", one which is the "main story line" and some others with some side characters were they flesh out the characters out more.. There are dozens of different races in the Anime and games, people with all kinds of skin tone, transsexual people, gay relationships are in there, and the main character casts is from lower than 10 years old, all the way up to 70 years and older! you got the classic tomboys, the big sister, the goofy jokester.. and the list goes on!! But nothing feels forced, the Characters are not one dimensional, their sexuality or appearance is not the only thing that makes them unique. It feels natural, nothing feels forced and all the characters are wonderful, with their own quirks and story to tell! And the universe they are in is interesting and wonderful on top of that! Cygames, A Company in japan who is doing this stuff correct for over a decade, yet the West fails so hard with it!
I don't have a problem with what companies like SBI do, but I have a problem how SBI operates and conducts themselves. This Chris Kindred person just needs to stay off the internet, as they clearly cannot handle criticism...or social interaction all at. The CEO is absolutely bonkers, and her comments about "terrifying" game devs into following her "consulting" honestly does tread right into the idea of pushing an agenda. You're a consultant, you don't run the game. Then there is the ex-employ that openly admitted to engaging in racist hiring practices. That is just an actual crime. As for DEI in general, I'm all for it when it doesn't blatantly or distractingly clash with a setting that is supposed to be a realist representation of the world/history. Also, don't write your characters to awkwardly draw attention to whatever identity you want noticed for Twitter points. Just let your characters be themselves, and allow the player get to know them through good storytelling.
Kotaku: long rant to self and bunch of AFK Kotaku: "hello would anyone in this group be willing to answer a few questions for a kotaku urinalist?" Crickets:
I hope someone makes some games to satisfy the inclusiveness in contexts that fuck it. Like a wheelchair-bound protagonist who gets stuck at the start of the campaign because they can't get up the stairs. Or a FPS game with a blind protagonist. Or the protagonist is the full alphabet and instantly gets murdered because it takes place in WWII.
I think there is a horror game in first person where you play as a blind person. I forget the name, but apparently one of the Bioshock devs worked on it, so there’s that.
I'm definitely leaning toward the woke side, myself, but I gotta say, a lot of these diversity promoters seem to push token inclusions more than actual living, breathing characters... Complaining that a Steam curator lists games your company's been involved in, well, that's pretty much on par with making a list of games EA have published, and EA's not calling out that sort of lists... I mean, really, if SBI are so certain they're doing the Right Thing, you'd think they'd take that curated list as bleedin' advertising...
I am a bit disconnected to how the gaming "journalists" in those articles matter. Maybe because I never take any reporting at face value and always look for opposing points or maybe because I just never cared what they have to say on the matter for well over a decade, but I'd be surprised if people still believe the drivel that comes out of them
I honestly I don't give a shit about games having inclusivity or not. I just cannot give money to people like the one in SBI. Harassment, fear tactics, borderline mob and fascist behavior. From now on, I will check the credits in games in order to not buy the games that they are involved with. I'm not going to write the names, because I don't know the legality of sharing them. I guess I'll have to pass on GOW Ragnarok...
@@lupvirga Yeah, its such an amazing thing "Oh you don't want your house known? fuck you, here is an wikipedia article about both your house and the new effect created from it"
Join the Resistance, and we'll return the industry to its purest form as it was and return to its actual simplicity like after the crash of 80's. All these entities are not native and they're here to parasite your fun; once they are removed, gaming will become the escapism it once was.
Come hang out in our Discord! Discord/GG/SidAlpha
think ill just not use your server that system you use is looking dodgie as hell
its all based on "accuse your enemy of what you are doing"
You come off as tip toeing at the start.
You said that both sides were being dishonest.
Who on the gamers side is being dishonest?
I see a lot of you guys who want to be balanced claim both sides have done something wrong when you provide no evidence. Though I'm fine with trying to be balanced and there is probably someone doing something wrong. Each time I hear it said. You guys sound like you are saying it absent mindedly in an attempt to come off as balanced than actually being balanced so that you can be correct.
The fact Alyssa Mercante arguably kicked this whole mess into overdrive from goddamn Kotaku of all places had guys like me who were pushing for ethics in game journalism going: *_"OF COURSE IT'S KOTAKU. BECAUSE TIME IS AN EFFING CIRCLE."_*
The funny thing about this 'GamerGate 2.0', is the only people really pushing the label with any sort of intensity for a good week or so were game journos trying to smear everyone following the SBI Detected group (which broke 300k last night and is approaching 302k as a I write this) before smaller TH-camrs in the gaming space started referring to it like that.
Like Adam Jensen once said: "I never asked for this."
I don't care about the gender, sexuallity, skin color or whatever of characters.
Write good characters, write good stories.
That's all most of us want. Make the game truly enjoyable. It ain't rocket science.
Edit: I cannot spell.
Seconded. The issue for most people isnt diversity, its bad writing and even then, the only reason its causing problems these days is because the egos of the hacks responsible cant take the critisism and lash out instead of learning something.
yea and what about how literally any time a character that is a minority is announced and there's massive backlash about "woke" this "woke" that. This is fucking constant these days. It's old and wrote. You guys can't seem to care most the time and actually very rarely consume the media anyway. I want good media but I don't cry when it's not something I'm looking forward to, I just find something else that i want and be positive instead of being negative all the time.@@marcusreading3783
Yea, the annoying bit is when people such as these use marginalized people as shields for their own toxicity and to divert criticism, which of course, puts those same marginalized people in the firing line when backlash inevitably occurs. This means that, despite what groups such as SBI like to tout, they are only really making things worse for everyone.
As an autistic, this whole crap reminds me of Autism Speaks and all the damage they caused for us as a group. They claim to speak for us, and yet refuse to actually listen to us and instead force their own ideal onto us and lures the uninformed masses alongside them.
It's like writing what you know is a dead consept now.
The reason why e.g. Ladykiller in a Bind was a good game was not just because it was diverse. It was also a good game.
Old and more niche example would be GGACPR. E.g. Testament was confirmed to be non binary way before the Strive rerelease.
and people still whined about testament being nb in strive on release as well because of the design change or something idk it's just that people whine if it's a diverse roster in a new game but if it's diverse in an old game it's suddenly good. The same types that use this logic are the types who say that games shoudln't be political then like games like Helldivers and Bioshock, or forbid the most common one, Fallout@@Lynxiro
People: I don't want to buy your product if this company was involved.
Corporations/Media: This is literally harassment! Buy our thing or you are [insert insult/slander here]!
Bold strategy trying to shame people into buying your stuff, let's see how that works.
Gamergate2.0:
"targeted harrasment against Sweet Baby Inc." - No
"targeted harrassment by Sweet Baby Inc. Founder and employees and followers against a steam group with a private discord" - Yes
It never went away. The people who were pro-corruption started media 'consultant' companies like Silver String Media.
all of this happening just because one guy on steam was like "hey, i created this group to list games that are involved with X company, do with this information as you will"
the manner of which this is going down is revealing a LOT about the industry and the media backing it
The fact that Kindred himself set this whole thing off by openly starting a harrassment campaign and continues to play victim while media outlets and a government funded group backs and protects him is insane
I think the reason gamers keep backlashing on forced diversity is that we’ve always had wildly diverse media and communities. My favorite game, Chrono Trigger, has a 4:3 ratio on Male to Female characters and out of the 6 character who actually have stories none of them conform to gender stereotypes. All this 30 years ago. Same with my games friend group, specifically because we don’t actually care about demographics.
Write fun stories and we don’t care who’s in them. Write crap stories minorities in gaming aren’t your shield when it flops. I only see one side harassing anyone here like usual, but at least we have Community Notes dunking on them constantly this go around.
"We don’t actually care about demographics" that seems like part of the problem with the companies employing consulting firms like SBI. They aren't looking to provide representation; they're targeting a demographic. Minorities are nothing but a marketing shortcut. While the Average gamer like yourself will just play anyone in a game that's made well.
@@Mint-Lynx As a minority myself, I can definitely say I preferred it when games didn't "target" me. A character doesn't have to look like me for me to like or relate to them. Companies like SBI need to fuck off and stop using people like me as a shield.
You are literally right on the money. The whole entire problem with this company is that it invents problems in their head that don’t exist. To them, suddenly after 2018 every “minority” character in video games suddenly stopped existing and the world reverted back to the 1930s Jim Crow era and now they need to make a conscious effort to implement diverse characters in order to crusade against the racist boogeymen, and everyone else around them is giving them weird looks because it’s the 21st century and nearly every problem they scream about doesn’t exist.
They act like their diversity is somehow new or revolutionary within the gaming industry, when it’s not, that’s the issue. Their mindset is built on this victim fantasy where everything and everyone around them is a nazi or a fascist, diversity never existed and it’s their duty to implement it.
The truth is, it’s not even “diversity” that gamers are angry about. What they’re really angry about is “identity politics” but since the word “diversity” has pretty much become synonymous with left wing dog whistles, many gamers are starting to associate the word diversity with identity politics without worrying about whether or not politically illiterate spectators are gonna call them bigots.
You see, for “woke” people, it’s not enough to just have black or gay characters in media. They need characters that specifically indulge socially inept teenage white girls on Twitter that suffer from borderline personality disorder while struggling with their sexuality.
@@Seoul_SoldierAs i see it SBI and Sh@t like it appeals to companies with little to no talent, they dont know what they want to do to make their games special... sooo... they contract or are scared into contracting SBI.
I don't even care about the politics - I'm in no position to be mad on other people's behalf. But the fact that Kindred's throwing up a political smokescreen to hide the fact that he started a harassment campaign against someone who was just listing out what games his firm worked on makes him a manchild in my book.
Preach.
Also says they're not proud of their work. You don't try to shut people down through harassment and cancel culture if what you're doing is what you believe is right and helpful.
What they did is confirm the suspicion that they're grifters, liars and don't give a toss about anyone but themselves.
oh I think they ARE proud of their work. They're ideologues, and believe they're 100% right. BUT they know there is growing pushback against their work, and they're clearly a "the ends justifies the means" group, so to reach their goals they have no issues with doing things stealthily.
Being apolitical is worst thing you could be. Look at russia!
@@Katsura_ja_nai_Zura_da "Noo! You must choose a side! You can't be normal! Definitely don't choose the another one!" Just as bad as woke ideologues I fucking swear.
Good to have you on the correct side of the issue, as you usually are.
"Woke" people bring up gamergate every year saying its "gamergate 2.0". They then basicly do what they did to start gamergate the first time. They get surprised pikachu that once again gamers hate their actions. "History repeats"
lets hope this time round they dont profit enough from it for round 2... i cant spell his name but night in the woods dev's widow from what rotten fragments of memory i got was mentioned as partaly funding sbi.
@@someguy4252 Oh it's far worse than that, good sir. The guy offed himself, and his *sister* is using the money his game earned to fund SBI/DIE stuff. And she's also friends and still friends with the person that cancelled him and made him end it all to begin with
@@dragostorm259 yup, the sit makes ya wanna ralph eh?
Keep up the good work Sid, we appreciate your work and your dedication to reporting facts and accurate information.
Actual queer developers in some areas have also came out against this and said:
"Don't market your game on your diversity, make your game diverse because that's how life is."
Which is probably the most fair way to go about such things.
I also have no issue with that. Game developers should make games how they want to. Hiring an external contractor to "approve" of your story is silly. It's a waste of money, it destroys the creative process, the creative people will probably be offended and their quality of work will decline... And the customers will ask WTF happened to the game they were keen on getting and now it's something completely different.
You can tell when diversity is genuine vs pandering. Spider-Man 2 still has a Cuban flag hanging in the Puerto Rican kid’s apartment and Last of Us 2 still has a cross sitting in a Synagogue.
Unfortunately the activists have targeted actually diverse games like Rimworld for not being the “correct” diverse, despite character back stories being written by trans people. There was another adventure game that got crap for “transphobia” despite having a trans writer too. It’s high school level cliques all the way down.
Actual queer developers still get push back. Almost like you don't want representation to exist.
Mad props to those queer developers for coming out, if you'll pardon the awkward phrasing, and confidently stating the emperor has no clothes, aka "marketing games based on the studio's diversity and/or emphasizing how wonderfully diverse™ the game is a poor marketing tactic!"
I say this especially given the current atmosphere of dev conferences like GDC, which to an outsider seem like you'll be forced to endure some kind of 'struggle session' for not blindly following to the latest version of the 'woke' theology. (Actually, if the panel entry I saw advertised at GDC2024, there's an entire panel called "So you've been canceled, now what?" which gives major 'struggle session' vibes.)
@@piratebear3126 "Last of Us 2 still has a cross sitting in a Synagogue."
...How the hell did they miss _that?_ LoU2's been meme'd/shit on to hell and back over decisions Naughty Dog made, but how the hell do you leave a Christian cross in a clearly marked Synagogue?
How much do you have to hate your brother to be besties with the person that harassed them into the grave... falsely. ffs...
Because, it's a cult-like mentality. The truth is irrelevant next to their ideology.
As a black man I've been quoting Adam Jensen more and more thanks to companies like SBI and my general distaste for DEI based narratives/hiring.
"I never asked for this."
And when SBI collapses and files for bankruptcy, you'll STILL be quoting Deus Ex:
"...What a shame."
They don't care.
They will have stuffed their pockets with fraudulently made money@@Oi1Suzy .
unknown awakening: a new game being worked on who just banned almost their entire forum so 'noone would notice' SBI involvement. A few other channels covering it with receipts.
9 times out of 10, issues like sexual orientation and gender identity have nothing to do with a piece of media, so the developers just shoehorn it in, and it makes no sense.
I am what some people would call "woke". I am an enby (please no arguing about gender here, not the point of me saying this) and bisexual. I am so tired of these token characters in games, and other media, meant to represent people like me.
Diversity is fine, but don't force it. Gay people exist. Trans people exist. But you don't have to force a character in to the plot and make being gay or trans that character's defining characteristic. Just because some people on twitter do that, doesn't mean it's good representation... matter in fact, that alone I think proves it's bad representation...
I agree here, inclusion is important i am the wokest motherfucker around but when its forced and 1 dimensional i feeo the oposite that my minority has been used as a tickbox and it makes me sick. Sbi is disgusting as they made remarks at akira toriyama after his death. Woke is great inclusion is great but the inclusion sbi are trying is factually doing the oppoisite and making diverse characters aweful and 1 dimenaional all for tickbox exercises
Yeah, really. Bad representation does exist, and it detracts from the product while helping no one.
Honestly, the 'diversity' of the modern media is somehow worse than the token black dude from the 90s. At least they had a bit of personality and generally had a point to being there, even if it was just comic relief. These days, they dont even have that and are barely cardboard cutouts with voice recorders taped to them. This is not how you do diversity.
@@marcusreading3783 "Honestly, the 'diversity' of the modern media is somehow worse than the token black dude from the 90s."
....I hate how much sense this makes.
But seriously, far, far too many 'diverse characters' these days come off as 1 of 2 things: void of personality or insufferable from the get-go with Mary-Sue potential written all over them.
I don't know if it's just the writing quality has degraded in the industry or what, but the '1-dimensional character' is an issue I see far, far too often.
@@internetzenmaster8952 writing quality, bad writers, hiring writers whose only qualification is "diversity". When you force diversity in to the writing team, it's going to infect the writing... there's an "anime" that proves this, made BY Crunchyroll, but I forget its name. It was SO bad, but too many people were defending it, and the only reason for that was the writing team was very diverse, and the anime itself talked about the kind of stuff you would expect with that, but it was handled so badly... even without those topics, it was horrendous though.
The connections with ALL OF THIS continues to be mind blowing. All the way to the original GG situation with some of the SAME PEOPLE. I'm starting to think Gatekeeping is the only way man.
Kindred needs to be de-platformed, entirely. They have called for targeted harassment numerous times. They need to go.
gaming media lying must be a day ending in y
They are very much like politicians in that regard.
@@SidAlpha
So, this little debacle happened a couple of days ago. Dead By Daylight had released a new killer, The Unknown, and the voice actor is calling foul on it being a trans stereotype, but then it seems they backpedaled their claims.
Would this topic be something you would do in a video?
It would help clear the room a bit & generally want to know what's going on.
It's irritating how dishonest and hostile the entire journalism sector is on this topic. They essentially insult and attack consumers for making informed choices, simply because these choices go against ESG/DEI, and the violent insertion of it into modern media without any consideration to its appropriacy.
And that's exactly what I find so annoying about all this: not wanting politics in games doesn't mean we don't want any political topics in games at all. What we don't want is the preachy, finger-pointing garbage that tries to portray any kind of current ideology as an objective truth instead of what it really is: an ideal. Disco Elysium did it really well, portraying all sides as having agreeable and disagreeable aspects, and letting the player decide what they want to side with. But not only do SBI and its affiliates push this one-sided discourse, they squeeze it into many existing franchises and ruin established stories through character assassination. And when the fans complain, they immediately pull the victim card.
And at the end, they walk away from the remaining dumpster fire of beloved IP's, and proudly add another career path to their Twitter bio. This is why we must gatekeep harder.
They really, really don't like "us" being a group and organizing.
If you have to silence someone, then you know your position is untenable.
Kotaku lacking journalistic standard practices? I'm shocked 😑
The Ballad of Gay Tony. If you want to include diversity, make it good. Don't insult us by just shoehorning stuff in to pander. It's a sign you do NOT give a shit about a community and it is only an after thought to say you care by making an empty gesture. I gave one example, there are tons more. They don't really need a consulting firm to help them tick boxes, just look at the successes and use them as a guide.
NGL I am not a fan of when someone creates something that is badly made and uses some demographical detail as a shield from criticism while failing to properly address (or giving no more than assertion against) legitimate criticism that has nothing to do with that demographic trivia. Granted, it isn't the most ubiquitous problem (I'd argue overmonetization is worse), but the fact that it happens at all is a problem IMO.
Otherwise, thanks for pointing out that Denuvo Steam group, I hadn't known that was a thing and suffice to say I'm following them now, as well as a few others I just looked up.
It’s almost like if you focus on things besides making good games, you don’t get good games.
God of War Ragnarök wasn't a good game apparently lol.
The games they worked on were a mix bag. So I doubt they were the cause of it TBH
Going by the list, what you said is just wrong but go off champ.
@@darkmetal2412 It wasn't. Interactive movies are never good games.
I got blocked by Kindred. I wear it like a medal
It baffles me that twitter suspended kindred twice but the account is still there.
I look back at my childhood back in the 80s then I look at today and wonder, "What the hell happen to Humanity?" I don't blame technology and advancements I blame Humans for miss using and miss treating technology.
Edit: How many Gamergate 2.0 have we had so far? lol
I know, right?! I find myself missing the 80s more and more. When I first used the internet in the early 90s I thought it was the most amazing thing ...back when it was just an amazing information and conversation space. It's been warped and twisted since then, and the effect it's had on society since then is not what I could ever have imagined. So much of this fanaticism is born from internet echo chambers.
First I heard of sweet baby inc I thought it's a joke. Their name makes me shiver, like... Would this what a bunch of pdfs would call their club... I can't trust them and since what I heard about them sounds like they're manipulators
I love how EVERY time there is talk of trying to combat "extremism" , it's always the right side of the spectrum they're referring to. It doesn't matter how far left some groups go, it's freedom and justified , not extremism. I just find it odd.
Probably as odd as saying that you left the instigating event out of a story you wrote , because the response was not "proportional" to the attack so it didn't bear mentioning. Like that dishonest hack did in her story. I can't remember for sure the writers name , but someone did an interview with her after her story.
I may be wrong, but I think it just MAY be a little more likely that she knew adding that context wouldn't support the whole "Unprovoked attack" angle she (as most others) are pushing.
Harder to sell the poor unsuspecting victim card when you mention that your "victim" ran up and kicked someone out of nowhere. Then it's karma, not trauma.
It's almost like right wing ideology is bad and left wing ideology is good.
Consulting companies are a horrible bane upon the creative industries. They are a part of the problem with "by committee" process.
6:34 Mercante is correct about one thing: it isn't one company 'forcing diversity' into video games. There's about 12 of these DEI consultancy firms (or as they call it 'narrative design consultants') kicking around promoting/coercing/browbeating (YMMV on the method) their warped view of diversity into the industry.
The fact people were only pissed at Sweet Baby Inc until a couple other DEI consultancy groups firms poked their heads up and started defending it (instead of throwing Kindred under the bus like a sane, rational company/competitor would do) _is kind of a hint that 'wokeness' is a secondary reason for why gamers are upset._
I dont care who or what the main character is, as long as the game is good.
Just seems like the writing for alot of games SBI worked on was not good. Which means i’m not gonna like the game. Also, whoever keeps taking the mid stick to female characters seriously needs to stop.
You cannot have a good game if the main character doesn't comply with the world-building. The games were not good because SBI worked on them because they were not about organic world-building, they were about pushing a specific message, at the behest of both the studios and SBI. People still don't seem to understand this, and will continue to fall for these shenanigans until they're willing to stop fence-sitting and enabling bad actors. Sadly, these words will go unheeded because people would rather continue to support bad trends than speak up and risk becoming a pariah among the zeitgeist.
Game companies expect us to pay for their mistakes every quarter, yet don’t want to take us seriously and call us idiots every day… I play games for the fun of it, I don’t need politics in my video games, unless is a game about politics
I will not be buying any games that SBI has touched, or that other lady zoey, she lied and pushed someone to killing themselves, she's a horrible human being.
So how long until Sweet Baby Inc is invited to speak at the United Nations?
With the senior UN figures kissing their asses under the podium.
the algorithm is against you on this one, needs to be shared around
Sharing opinions and beliefs is reasonable.
Accepting that one's own opinions and beliefs are not shared by all, nor should they be for the sake of intellectual diversity, is also reasonable.
Imposing one's own opinions and beliefs on others is unreasonable, harmful, and disrespectful.
Thinking one's own opinions and beliefs are gospel truths or facts is genuine insanity and potentially dangerous to others and society as a whole.
Exactly, I am all for activism and improvement of civil and social rights. But this kind of toxic and narcissistic activism is doing more to harm the progress of civil rights than help it. If a far-right dictatorship takes over, I believe part of the blame will at least lie on the shoulders of the far-left for poisoning and weakening their own movement with pointless bullshit.
And I say this as someone who considers themselves liberal. Everyone throughout history who has sacrificed themselves to improve the way we treat others different from us did not die for this shit. They did not die just for us to become as toxic and horrible as the bigots on the extreme right.
@@MegaMrMinecraft1 Ah, someone figured out why things escalated in the 1930s in a certain country.
Perpetual self-identified victims false flag harassment while actively partaking in harassment all in the name of DEI which is slowly but deservedly killing many names in the gaming industry. Seems like a solid summary.
As an American, I agree with you. It's the loud squeaky minority. Even so I wish devs could just make the games they want and let the customers vote with sales. The political weaponization of video games, on either side, is unethical. (NEPA Republican) (Originally a reply to a previous comment)
It's the loud squeaky minority, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And when the squeaky wheel disagrees with the LGBTQIA² cult, that wheel gets replaced instead of greased.
If you dont pay for our absurdly overpriced consulting, we will write hitpieces on you
As always i find it funny that these people who cried the loudest about the need for diversity usually ends up being the most racist people around..
the funniest thing to me is that a load of muricans calls racism on a barazilian guy over telling people where they were involved in . .
10 years anniversary of the boogeyman of the century!
Damn Sid, you did a great job on this video. You remained impartial throughout the entirety of the content. I'm just sorry that everyone from Reddit or SBI's fanbase came over to try to derail or make it seem like you did something terrible. Keep up the good work!
Dude, sid is so late to the game and all he did was regurgitate what a group of other TH-camrs, many better then him have been saying since October of last year. He is bandwagoning now off Vara Dark, Yellowflash, Asmongold and Kabrutus himself ( the curator )he has added NOTHING to the conversation
@@TheRealRaddicalReggie-o9l I came over here after watching Optimus's video on the same topic, I can say that even though Optimus is popular, this video was still more informative and more compelling. There is no problem with covering a topic with relevant information even if someone else provided it beforehand. It's still worth covering.
@@jamesbond2265 Sid is not some genius, all of this was covered in depth in multiple videos by Vara Dark going back to October.. she and the stream curator Kabrutus have worked together on this and your guy Sid Alpha here is just seeing how there videos have been flying high on views so he is jumping on the Bandwagon they started pushing months ago. Utter grift, which is mostly what Sid Alpha is anyway.
@@TheRealRaddicalReggie-o9l I don't agree but you're welcome to your opinion. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I simply said he made a good video and I already told you it's not the only video on the topic.
@@TheRealRaddicalReggie-o9lYou should stop using words you don't understand, there's no grift. Only evidence and truth; and ergo thus facts. That is all that matters.
Kicker is, had the numb nuts at Sweet Baby Inc (SBI) just shut the hell up, this brouhaha (finally got a reason to use that word) would've largely blown over in a week or two. What they tried doing to Kabrutus in getting him cancelled (& now Asmongold too), they unleashed the Streisand effect. I imagine that the other game consulting companies are looking at this developing mess with keen interest. Make no mistake folks, there are other SBI type groups out there, & they won't all be as moronic as SBI is turning out to be. Vigilance is key here.
Na no way, people have been reporting on sweet baby inc since October of last year.. it would have kept going even with out him
"What's your superpower?"
"I'm a marginalized demographic."
Fun fact whole GDC panel was all about inclusivity, diversity and D&E ... Almost no mention on game deveopment. And comments from videos are locked out ...
The key thing Diversity should not be a checklist for corpo's to fulfill in order to avoid alienating/losing customers.
The Majority of peeps against SBI are not against Diversity in games but they want that diversity to be natural and make sense for the context of the game and narrative, not shoehorned in to placate a loud zelous minority.
Most people who are "Minorities" or "other" (Not good terms I know but I didn't want to over specify) are just regular people who have regular lives and don't care significantly about what other people are doing as long as it's not directly harmful to them or those around them.
As all people would do regardless of their background or personal beliefs would support better representation for those who's existence is repressed especially if they themselves have a personal connection there is the loud zelous minority in all groups who base their entire existence around the hill they want to die on. This in itself is not directly a bad thing but it's from this extreme corner of views that the highest chance of harm to others is perpetrated.
It should not, but we have seen over and over again that big companies do not do too well on their own... Companies like SBI (and trust me there are tons of them out there) came to be because companies found them self woefully underequipped to handle a world where there was not a monolithic cultural space. So until the pendulum swings back and companies start taking responsibility themselves These sort of companies are needed and as such you are sooner or later going to get one that cocks up...
To think, if Kindred would have just never said anything, everyone would be like they were last year. Knowing these companies exist and just not caring. The mentality was "It is what it is." to now being "We may be able to do something about this." and we have Kindred to thank.
Another thing worth noting is that a huge majority of names specifically from GG1 made a return after their decade long hiatus for GG2. All except the three main players of it that is. Everything involving SBI's defense network is overwhelming suspicious to the point that if your brain doesn't start doing conspiracy theory string connecting on a mental white board then it may potentially be broken.
Also I want to point out the ones screaming that they are victims constantly call gamers many things divulging their idea that to them gamers are all racist/sexist/and phobic. When in reality, if you look, notice and or talk to a good majority of people in SBI Detected, we are more than likely the most diverse group gaming has ever seen.
It's not much but thank you for all the hard work you put into making these videos SidAlpha sir. Greatly appreciated.
It's like a reader making a list of books they don't like from an author and then that author upon finding out, gets butthurt, and goes after the reader. Nevermind the fact that all this information is public and useable under the fair use act. I mean why are we letting full grown adults get rewarded (ie chris kindred and his army) for bad behavior. Good Job on calling that ninnyhammer out SidAlpha!
TB rolling in his freaking grave right now.
Wow, it's so nice to know how our government is wasting our resources on teeny- weeny fries.
I like how the jernos kept calling them a consultant company. But what are they consulting on? Why won't they tell us what kind of consulting they do?
What you said at the end is true. We all need to start voting with our wallets. There are plenty of games from the past that we can play without buying new ones. Just know that if we could stop buying new ones, gamers could last year's without buying new games. Devs and companies like SBi can not go years without us buying them.
All these journos without a sliver of moral integrity proves beyond any reasonable doubt that the core idea behind GamerGate 1.0 was well founded. Too bad it got derailed by a fringe of bad faith actors (a lot of "gamers" unfortunately). Things kept getting worse and I'm not surprised to see a GG 2.0 and more in the future if we don't stop this nonsense right now...
You know SBI is quite the company when Elon Musk calls them "an evil blight" .
Let alone one of the disgusting people working at SBI(Chris Kindred) disrespecting the late Akira Toriyama just hours after his passing. As if this individual will ever achieve what Toriyama-sama did for decades.
If Elon Musk calls them evil, I would consider that a badge of honor, considering what a vile piece of crap Elon Musk is.
@@tripweed seconded.
There are two things I have noticed over the past couple days pertaining to the article on Verge. The statements Ash made in the article when compared to the statements she made that other people posted on Twitter, tend to contradict each other. Not only that, but the article on Verge contradicts itself, but it might be hard to notice since the paragraphs that do this have been separated by other paragraphs.
One other thing I have noticed, is that all of the articles made, tend to have differing information on what actually happened, sometimes just ever so slightly.
"How can you hate diversity and inclusion" today is an _awful_ lot like "why do you hate our freedom" circa 2001. The vast majority of the people such accusations are lobbed at, don't. But they _might_ have a problem with the grotesqueries perpetuated under the cover of seemingly benign and positive words. And the utter failure of those who lob the accusations to interrogate what they're actually defending is masking indulgence in the pleasure that comes with the power of being part of a mob.
I know there's a lot of people who are 'tired' of this. They just want it all to stop. This is exactly the reaction that is wanted. The people who profess to take neither side of this little kerfluffle and just want it to go away need to listen, and re-listen, and then listen once more for good measure to the last three minutes or so of this video- starting at 15:50.
Because a lot of these same people will do exactly what you describe. They'll whine about bad, buggy games, bad business practices, predatory practices, and anti-consumer behavior without recognizing that THEY are the ones feeding this behavior because at the end of the day 'new shiny thing from big name brand or studio must be bought and played'.
There is some hope on the horizon. We've got games like Palworld and Helldivers that are absolutely tearing it up (neither of which I play but... for my own reasons) and showing that good, popular games can come without needing to pander to investment firms, nor have the ginormous budget of modern AAA dev studios. Good. We need more examples of that.
But ideologically speaking there is definitely a side that wants the 'middlemen' as it were to throw up their hands and scream 'JUST MAKE IT GO AWAY!'. That side has shown that they are all too willing to whisper 'Oh, I can... I just need your permission to do what must be done'.
And if that permission is granted... that never ends well.
DEI:
Division
Exclusion
Incompetence
God, this shit is so weird to me. i tend to keep out of gaming conversations on topics like this because they just get insufferable on both ends, but like, "I got booted out bc im a journo and they were posting tame shit they like in their own private discord and i dont agree with it" is the most pathetic shit i've ever heard, my lord. Partisan arguments are bad for ones mental health but I think my girl at kotaku needs to get hers checked out for different reasons
Good video as always boss
I'm glad I've never had such a narrow scope of imagination that I need characters to be the same gender, color, sexuality, or even species as I am in order to identify with or relate to them.
And yet i have seen people loose their proverbial shit over a stuka having the wrong sized of bombs or that Chris Clogbottom did not play for the bikinibottoms buckaneers this or that season or that the Snuffville snacks had the wrong shade of lilac on their jerseys.... So while you are a golden paragon... trust me when i say people get upset over way less trivial things than ones entire cultural heritage being mis-represented....
They lack imagination and fantasy, i bet they never played as a kid to be a animal / pokemon of their choice just for fun for an afternoon.
Thanks for covering this issue, it is important.
For the algorithm, Hail Sid!
DEI in gaming, to me, should come NATURALLY, not forcefully including it in your titles. In my opinion, a good example would be Baldurs Gate 3; can't get much more diverse than the characters in that.
- A Githyanki female protagonist with a views that her duties are the only importance in life.
- A Half-Elf with no clue about her past in a journey of true self discovery to learn of her past life.
- A flamboyant Rogue Vampire who is quite charming who desires to rid himself of a curse bestowed upon him by dealing with the one who bestowed it upon him.
- A wizard with a power complex and an etheral dommy mommy issue that needs to be resolved.
- A one-eyes sorcerer who's out to clear his debt to his sponsor who granted him that power.
- A hulking druid that seeks to bring balance to the forces and seeks adventure with you and your party for, pun intended, greener pastures.
In addition to OTHER companions you can meet and group up with, not to mention your own CaC or an optional storyline CaC! Diverse, as fuck. Plenty of inclusion. As far as equity goes, I got all my money's worth thanks to said flamboyant vampire making me laugh my ass off.
Eileen is a disgrace to her brother.
Gamergate 2.0 Electric Boogaloo will be remembered as the activist implosion. They will not be **tolerated** anywhere after this.
Wow, honestly this is really interesting. Im genuinely staggered by the support for SBI and DEI in games in the comments. Especially with the eroding triple A game space aswell and the thriving indie/ double A space. I just cant understand why people prop up what is obviously not doing well. Even if you like what SBI does, the track record is turd games. Whether its their fault or not is honestly irrelevant, an obvious pattern has presented itself. So until these groups can make a good game or get fizzled out because they go out of business, me and others like me will just stick to our Palworlds and Helldivers. We just want good games.
Alan wake and spiderman 2 were generally considered to be at the very least good games so i dont believe SBI is the reason for the bad games. The main problem is the fact that people are not telling them that what Chris did was uncalled for. That steam group was just made for a bunch of haters and he shouldve just ignored it instead of going after them. Like it or not, them circlejerking was within their rights as consumers. Chris is a dickhead and while i do believe there should be more diversity in games, it should be more organic. Why not prop up developers who have diverse ideas instead of forcing others to do it for them ?
The blame probably lies somewhere between the consultant advice SBI is giving and the game writers' ability to create a good character and story around it. When you have a character show up and immediately introduce themselves as (insert race/culture/gender identity here), it's just cringy bad writing. These teams should be working together, writing a story that introduces the player to characters naturally and letting us learn who that character is through the story.
@@StealthyJimIt's not about that for them, it's about normalising a specific message until people accept it wholesale without question, sort of like how gamers over a decade ago threw a fit with horse armour, but today they are fine with seasonal DLC, battle passes, season passes, deluxe DLC, digital premium packs, shark cards, etc., etc., etc. A decade from now the average "gamer" will be defending the multiple companies like SBI any time they get criticised, and stuff like Forspoken will be the norm.
@@Billy-bc8pkI don't think the two situations are all that comparable. The backlash against anti-consumer monetization was far more unified, because it was blatant corporate greed coming from the publishers. It was clear where the problem was. There were even a couple incidents where developers spoke out against what corporate higher-ups and publishers forced into their games. But it was never accepted without question, because peopled have continued pushing back up till today. It just continues happening because people keep buying the games after/while complaining. If enough vote with their wallet, there will be change.
What we have today is a minority of people finding out that one "bad because woke" company had a hand in making one high-profle bad game, then attributing that failure to the wokeness. Suicide Squad didn't fail because "go woke, go broke", it failed because it's a bad game with bad gameplay and terrible "live service" crap shoveled into it. The ones complaining about SBI's involvement are the same group that were raging at games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect for having gay/lesbian romance options. The only part of this that is comparable to a decade ago, is the fact that if Suicide Squad was the most woke thing ever created, but a good video game to play, everyone would still be playing it while you guys keep on complaining. AKA "accepting" the wokeness.
If SBI or DEI in general are the problem, why did God of War, Alan Wake, and Spider-man sell millions and are still regarded as top tier games? The complaints about them being woke are still there. But they have nothing to back up their claim that it's actually wokeness harming the game's industry. SS:KtJL handed them a correlation (pro tip: correlation is NOT causation) to point at, so they jumped on it. SBI is in the credits, so it's all obviously their fault. Even all the bad game mechanics and monetization they had nothing to do with.
@@Billy-bc8pkOh, and what does Forspoken have to do with any of this? It was just a mediocre game with atrocious writing and technical/performance problems. What exactly about it is the fault of DEI/wokeness?
Algorithm food to help Sid alpha's channel
Just like the first time around, they try to make it something it isnt, digging out the bedrock to sink even lover than they did before.
I sure love all these totally organic and not at all biased comments from good faith people who are totally subscribed to Sid. 🙂
Yep. Judging by the amount of flak he's getting he's over the target.
"If you don't mindlessly regurgitate my biased reporting and accept it as truth, you are invalid." Chuds just keep on chudding.
@@Nyx_2142 Bro's out here responding to 5 month old youtube comments. Get a hobby.
When you think about it, this shit never really ended, it just became more subdued in some regards for a time, until now. "Gamer Gate 2" is really more of a new chapter in the same book then it is a full on sequel.
The thing that honestly worries me more then triple-A games with bad writing is government powers worming their way in to regulate the industry in some manner that could ultimately harm the creative freedom of the indie sense, which is more of what I honestly care about these days.
This shit is getting so tiring. I grew up in the late 90s early 2000s, I went from being bullied for liking video games, to a brief moment in time from 2008-2013 where I was left alone, then after 2013 I was labeled a misogynistic, alt-right, white supremacist just because I like games. I just want to enjoy my favorite hobby without it getting destroyed from the inside out.
On the one hand if there’s a theme of someone not liking a game where SBI is involved then having a steam curated group listing games they’re involved in is a good help and not harassment in and of itself.
On the other if you’re going to use language like ‘tainted’ that does sound like a bit more than just a ‘hey this is useful info’ group.
At the end of the day though, they took corrective action and whatever lens you view that through, that’s what (or at least what should have) matters
First time seeing my own message in one of these videos! Feel so proud :D
The last time people found out these people are in private chats coordinating attacks using their platforms, something happened. Dunno what, cant know what.
If this keeps happening, those articles I mean, Gamergate 2.0 could result in the explosive death of games journalism as a whole. At least in terms of large websites. By the way, I decided today to seek out SBI Detected and join it out of sheer spite. Happened to have bought one of the games on the list, but that was before knowing it was there. Oh well.
Games Journalism already died 3 years ago, all that's left is cadaveric spasms.
Im fine with the consumer knowing which companies are involved in making the thing they want to buy, so they can choose to not give their money to people who hate them.
It is never too late to be consistent, do not worry.
Just today we did find another game that joined Curator group. Screeching continues. They are hiding their involvement instead of being proud of it. It's getting funny. I will keep looking to add more games and just don't buy them. Attacking and gaslighting gamers, aka your potential customers, is never smart. They will pay for this financially.
Notice how the people that are against SBI are willing to discuss and talk about the current state of the industry whereas the people defending SBI are actively silencing critics and threatening their job stability and careers if they don't fall in line. Guess which one is considered an extremist group by the federal government.
Also, Richie openly saying "you'll be put on a person list" is just straight up blacklisting and that is ACTUALLY ILLEGAL and him and anybody else putting names on that list could be punished for it as either a criminal or civil offense, sharing that list with other employers and people in the industry is just begging for a defamation lawsuit too for everyone whose name is on that list. He already admitted it exists on social media, if anybody could get him to say it on video then this guy is in for a world of pain in court and I hope somebody out there gets a lawyers and serves him.
Notice how you just made that up, me and many I know and follow "defend" SBI and I've actually had a hard time managing to have any discussion on the topic as the people's I've argued with so far simply go and ignore most arguments presented to them and scream about how they'll never buy any game SBI did consultancy work on which... your loss, they've worked for some good games such as Sable and Alan Wake 2 and some terrible games like the Suicide Squad one, having a consultancy group that focuses on DEI isn't what makes a game's narrative good or bad.
The truth is SBI doesn't matter and companies don't do shit because of the investor's deep care for certain political opinions, they do shit for profit and are heavily unregulated, that's why games get worse and more exploitative.
@@unritardatoqualsiasi Nice of you to completely ignore and fail to mention anything about a leading member of the whole DEI movement publicly threatening with blacklisting anybody who disagrees with them. Also there's a discord server and plenty of forum threads discussing SBI and DEI and most of you "defenders" of it always ended up name calling and throwing vitriolic remarks and baseless accusations to anybody who was arguing with them. I guess you are fine in your echo chamber but in the real world, you can't convince anybody because your points and arguments are weak and full of holes at best but when confronted about this, suddenly being "reasonable" is the same as being a racist and a nazi
@@Ark_Strike Exactly what happens whenever I attempt to engage with people like you, you just assume what I believe and what I'll say, you don't intend on engaging on this matter, you simply want to think yourself better because "the other side calls people names" I haven't called you names, I haven't cast aspersions upon you or assumed you were racist. I acknowlegde there's people on both sides who are impossible to discuss with, you seem to be one of them so I'll stop wasting your time.
@@unritardatoqualsiasi First let me start off by saying this, Sable and Alan Wake 2 might look good on paper but once you dig into the reviews you see okay stories and stunning buggy messes. This is not to claim that all games are not buggy messes. The problem here is that the narrative of DEI does not fit too well into creative processes ending up with shortened 1 dimensional characters that are flat and lack substance. Further the claim of rising above calling people names as a way to seem morally superior while defending such name calling dollards is to repetitious. Your attempt at engagement might seem to some to be disingenuous, I say that mainly due in part to your attempt at pointing out its about money and not SBI and a narrative attempt. Do kindly understand that the drive to control and lower people's ability to think is the primary focus of the game and always has been. Quote from MLK, "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." It still seems that some can't get past something still.
thank god SidAlpha is on this!!!!!
Right… because no other more competent youtubers haven’t been since October.. ohhh right they HAVE BEEN
@user-tk2hl4fz2l I didn't say they hadn't. Sit down ya weapon
I'm all against what Sid here termed "checkbox diversity". The best counterexample in recent memory is Sirona Ryan, a transgender character in Hogwarts Legacy. But that was just one facet of her character, demanding respect by earning it, and easily the third biggest badass in the game after Professors Figg and Weasley. Sirona Ryan is how you do diversity right.
Diversity is best used to increase interest in a story with well crafted characters and a good narrative. That's what SBI and their cohorts fail to realize. Plus here's the thing. Multiple studies have shown that men like looking at women and women like looking at women. Lauren from the channel "The Dadvocate" put it best. "Men like looking at pretty things too. They just like looking at them on women." So yeah. Add your black lesbian or your south Asian trans woman. But don't make that identity the entire character.
For me, this is not the beginning of GamerGate 2.0. If anything it's the continuation of a conflict that, just like the WW, has begun close to 10 years ago. And their objectives have expanded since then, because this is beyond ethics in videogame journalism and the place of women in gaming... This is an all-out cultural war with two clear sides. And those in the woke are either powerful and with more resources.
A part of me wants to avoid this because videogames are our form to escape reality for a couple of hours of our daily life, but when reality and politics are injected by force into our hobbies, we have to draw the line.
We've been voting with our wallets to decide the fate of these games, and rightly so. And reviews from game journalist cannot be trusted anymore. If a game is losing money and the consumer spoke with their review, it's more powerful.
They're wrong the more they try pushing the narrative, and it's been proven more times than not that we didn't start the fire. But we just started firing back HARDER than in the past.
The moment they say that videogames are not for us is a clear sign that the industry (both publishers, devs and journalist) have changed... And the hobby is been held hostage.
And quoting Adam Jensen again: "If you want to make enemies, try to change something."
If only game journalists did journalism instead of spreading hate and lies towards the industry they are working in and the consumers they should be informing about news in said industry...
But no, copy paste reddit discussions, half assed research and anything and everything just to push their own ideologies and opinions in the form of news articles, no matter what the facts are.
Pretty much the only place you can find up to date and accurate gaming news, is youtube... And even then you need to rake through quite a bit garbage before you find the channels that report as factually as possible.
you know what is funny, a Content Creator recently made a video about the games "Cygames" creates and their "Gran blue fantasy Universe". their "Gacha", "Fighting game" and "JRPG game" that came out a bit over a month ago does diversity right, they even got their own "Animes", one which is the "main story line" and some others with some side characters were they flesh out the characters out more.. There are dozens of different races in the Anime and games, people with all kinds of skin tone, transsexual people, gay relationships are in there, and the main character casts is from lower than 10 years old, all the way up to 70 years and older! you got the classic tomboys, the big sister, the goofy jokester.. and the list goes on!! But nothing feels forced, the Characters are not one dimensional, their sexuality or appearance is not the only thing that makes them unique.
It feels natural, nothing feels forced and all the characters are wonderful, with their own quirks and story to tell! And the universe they are in is interesting and wonderful on top of that! Cygames, A Company in japan who is doing this stuff correct for over a decade, yet the West fails so hard with it!
I don't have a problem with what companies like SBI do, but I have a problem how SBI operates and conducts themselves. This Chris Kindred person just needs to stay off the internet, as they clearly cannot handle criticism...or social interaction all at. The CEO is absolutely bonkers, and her comments about "terrifying" game devs into following her "consulting" honestly does tread right into the idea of pushing an agenda. You're a consultant, you don't run the game. Then there is the ex-employ that openly admitted to engaging in racist hiring practices. That is just an actual crime.
As for DEI in general, I'm all for it when it doesn't blatantly or distractingly clash with a setting that is supposed to be a realist representation of the world/history. Also, don't write your characters to awkwardly draw attention to whatever identity you want noticed for Twitter points. Just let your characters be themselves, and allow the player get to know them through good storytelling.
Kotaku: long rant to self and bunch of AFK
Kotaku: "hello would anyone in this group be willing to answer a few questions for a kotaku urinalist?"
Crickets:
not liking your own family is one thing, but god damn.
the media intentionally misleading and/or lying should be illegal and should result in company fined heavily and writer/editor some jail time.....
I hope someone makes some games to satisfy the inclusiveness in contexts that fuck it. Like a wheelchair-bound protagonist who gets stuck at the start of the campaign because they can't get up the stairs. Or a FPS game with a blind protagonist. Or the protagonist is the full alphabet and instantly gets murdered because it takes place in WWII.
Pinned comment worthy post! 👏👏👏
I think there is a horror game in first person where you play as a blind person. I forget the name, but apparently one of the Bioshock devs worked on it, so there’s that.
Honestly, the best part of this whole mess was putting a spotlight on the Steam Curator list feature, underrated feature.
I'm definitely leaning toward the woke side, myself, but I gotta say, a lot of these diversity promoters seem to push token inclusions more than actual living, breathing characters...
Complaining that a Steam curator lists games your company's been involved in, well, that's pretty much on par with making a list of games EA have published, and EA's not calling out that sort of lists... I mean, really, if SBI are so certain they're doing the Right Thing, you'd think they'd take that curated list as bleedin' advertising...
I am a bit disconnected to how the gaming "journalists" in those articles matter. Maybe because I never take any reporting at face value and always look for opposing points or maybe because I just never cared what they have to say on the matter for well over a decade, but I'd be surprised if people still believe the drivel that comes out of them
some people will buy something on face value because it reaffirms their bias
I honestly I don't give a shit about games having inclusivity or not. I just cannot give money to people like the one in SBI. Harassment, fear tactics, borderline mob and fascist behavior.
From now on, I will check the credits in games in order to not buy the games that they are involved with.
I'm not going to write the names, because I don't know the legality of sharing them.
I guess I'll have to pass on GOW Ragnarok...
Its kinda fun that had SBI not called out, harrassed and false reported a group with 24? people, this "gamergate 2.0" would never have happened.
it's called the Streisand Effect, and i love it.
@@lupvirga Yeah, its such an amazing thing "Oh you don't want your house known? fuck you, here is an wikipedia article about both your house and the new effect created from it"
Better late than never. Glad to have you back
Thank you Sid Alpha
I miss when gaming was about escaping the real world problems
Same here.
Join the Resistance, and we'll return the industry to its purest form as it was and return to its actual simplicity like after the crash of 80's. All these entities are not native and they're here to parasite your fun; once they are removed, gaming will become the escapism it once was.