I think every identity group has the doubling down syndrome If you put Indians in America, they do everything to prove they are indians to actual indians - they pray and go to temples and wear as much culture as they can Same with men - you put a man in a relationship with a stronger woman, they do everything to prove they "wear the pants in the relationship"
Not only did Darwin NEVER say that the strongest or "best at dominating" will survive. He said that the ones most able to adapt what their environment required of them, woud survive, as well as the ones able to cooperate. He also said that the pinnacle and most evolved and noble attitude of humanity was our love and compassion towards other animals. As did Einstein. Which for some reason everyone ignores.
The notion of "the struggle for existence" already presupposes that life is driven towards domination. Even when you show animals compassion you do so because you do not naturally fear them like a bird, you completely dominate them. But you are never going to ever "cooperate" with a polar bear so your usage of the term doesn't even make sense. Cooperation between two humans is motivated by the will to dominate the environment. Adaption in darwinism is just pure luck where those that don't fit in are killed and don't get to pass off their genes. That's what he meant by adaptation, he's not a lamarckian in ehich he thinks you can accrue traits over time based on how you live. It's all determined at birth according to him. It's arguably not even wholly efficient since many female birds select for so many useless and ridiculous traits to the point where it has become detrimental to the male bird.
@@joaovmlsilva3509 that is what darwinism is about. You don't influence evolution by yourself, that's Lamarckism, except maybe through eugenics but even that's not a perfect method that always gets you the result you want. If you are born with the "weak" genes that don't adapt well to the environment then you perish without reproducing. That's what natural selection is.
"Yes, I can get to compare myself to Batman because its my channel" is the last thing I expected to hear today and is unintentionally hilarious, thank you sisyphus 55
I think an important thing to note on this topic is that getting out of the manosphere and away from the antisocial traits it glorifies does not make you feel better either. You may feel just as depressed, anxious, and alone as you felt while in that culture, probably more so, since you lose that artificial sense of purpose. I think sisyphus creates this image that being inside the manosphere leads to a large but empty life, and being outside it grants peace and happiness, and contentment. You won't suddenly find love, acceptance, or a new sense of purpose by rejecting these ideals. You should absolutely do it, but it's by no means a fix for the underlying issues, it's just the first step.
Right, I think things like the "manosphere" is similar to Alcoholics Anonymous. It can help some people. It saves some peoples lives. A.A. saved my life to be honest with you. But after awhile it becomes something different that its original purpose. You can become addicted to it. What you become addicted to is the social factor. You get a sense of reward by being apart of the group. People in the manosphere will lie constantly because they just want to be apart of something. These are the people who are usually borderline violent in the things that they say on forums and such. Its like people who don't know how to fit in and don't know that it is crazy to say things like that all getting together and saying crazy things. The problem is that some of these kids take this VERY seriously. They are part of this group now that is bigger than them after all.. and this is what these guys are all doing.. It's like the cult that they make in fightclub. It grows bigger and more fucked up as things go along. All these men are pissed off and really now they are bound together by their anger and hate and their utter feelings of pain and loneliness they feel. The rejection they feel becomes extremely deep. They no loonger even want to solve their own problem... They just want to be a louder and more influential member of the group. They want to say things that other people in the group might admire. All of this leads to a HUGE downward spiral with none of these dudes getting what they want. Which is probably either sex, or a loving relationship. Ideally both I would imagine. They are totally fucking themselves. Drowning in their own anger and pain. If that becomes your whole world or a large part of it and you suddenly leave it then you will probably go through withdrawals. The whole thing is your addiction.
The main problem is that there is no alternative though. Young men turn to the manosphere because its the only thing out there that acknowledges the reality of what dating is ACTUALLY like for young men, as opposed to the blue-pill where it lies to young men about "just be nice and buy her flowers and she will like you".
I Loved Your bit about Darwin in the epilogue. Yes he did infer there is a “survival of the fittest” in his Natural Selection Theory but many cut it off at “fittest” when in reality he said something closer to “Survival of the fittest to adapt.” The world and it’s nature are ever changing. To want to be the same forever is truly a fool’s task
It is correctly stated as "survival of the fittest", but the word "fittest" itself is what's often misinterpreted. Fitness is not just a physical attribute, it's a quantitative measurement of the likelihood of survival/reproduction - taking into account both individual attributes and the state of the surrounding environment. So it's not just a measurement of an organism's abilities, but rather the "personal usefulness" of those abilities in the context of it's surroundings.
@@cedar4539 that's wrong. The vast majority of people are not seeking self-actualization, that's actually a very rare thing throughout human history. There have allways been scholars, be it for the spiritual, mental or physical. The modern insistence on a lack of any imperative given out by those people is a social disease. If you belive yourself to be capable to seek your own path go ahead but do not deprive the less fortunate from a guiding light.
Growing up one of the many ideals of masculinity was that men could fix and build things with tools. If you watch a lot of DIY youtubers those guys seem a lot more secure in their masculinity than most guys in the alpha-sphere. Their masculinity comes a lot less from external sources.
yeah its the difference between looking at a channel solely abt how to get into better shape and/or bodybuilding. and one that teaches you how to be more of a man through working out. one of them wants to be better, one wants the world to know they are better
That desire you spoke at the beggining. Tis the longing for connection and to be part of a conscious humanity. Right now we are part of a self murdering humanity based on lies and working towards death. Almost forgotten by yhe time the ending rolls in, there are no wrong ways to individually "be" but there's plenty of responsibility we have been collectively avoiding. The burden of so many, the banality of evil.
@@absolutewanker9384 I agree and disagree. While the general bodybuilder is represented by the phony fake natural instagram influencer that is more concerned with shoveling lies in the form of a preworkout supplement they claim got them to their natural figure there are also really amazing people in the space still. A lot more people being open about testosterone usage and a significant support toward more accessibility to newcomers has I think improved the scene immensely. The machismo energy of comparative size is less than what I think it used to be with fantastic role models like Chris Bumstead kind of leading the scene.
Autumn Leaves is the perfect outro for this video. Every time I hear this iconic melody I gaze into my incompleteness and mortality while embracing it with acceptance, that this doesnt need to be so bad at all. Your video helped me verbalizing this message I just feel hearing this beloved jazz tune.
@Steve L. Too bad so many generations drift further and further away from jazz. Even the young practitioners approach it as a thing of more rigor than freedom. And maybe that’s a better language for our time. But we can still learn much from times past.
I disagree with the assertion this content is ever, "past its topicalness," if what you intend to convey was this subject is no longer, "... of immediate relevance, interest, or importance owing to its relation to current events;" (Google) because we have not reached a moment as a world, a society or even a given culture in which this is not an on going issue, not just for men, but for people at large. Very few people truly understand, let alone embrace, the concept of "enough."
You think it helped that he speaks from experience? To me, that really strengthened his story. And it is something I rarely see in videos trying to tackle things like this.
@@Quadr44t Yes! He doesn't seem to shame or judge anyone for going through what he's been through. He shows that this is a journey all men must go through to some degree and there are no perfect answers. I think becoming a truly "good man" is much more difficult than it seems - a "sisyphean" task, if you will. He show's that he's struggling through that journey at least as much as everyone else is. It's extremely admirable.
@@alexnelson7258 yeah that was really refreshing to me. Though I never really got into the alpha male thing myself (probably because I joined a student association where everyone was welcome non-student too. So I interacted with people of all kinds on a regular basis), it seems like most that cover the problems with this ideology are very ridiculing and look down from their high horse basically. Which does more harm than good imo. Who is going to listen to people that actively ridicule their beliefs. And you are absolutely right, I have struggled with this too. But i was lucky to find myself in a very diverse environment at a relatively young age (18 I think, when i started college. In 2010 at least so quite a while back). So I very much applaud this video content!
@@Quadr44t I was never actually into the alpha male persona per se. You could even say I looked down on it. I've just always wanted to have tons of money and a rocking 6-pack and get laid all the time. The results have been disappointing for all three. My masculinity has always been on the fragile side.
I've watched many videos on the manosphere over the past few months, but this one is probably the most comprehensive and interesting to view through a philosophical lens. as always I found your video empathetic and thoughtful :) thanks
While this is a great deconstruction and analysis of masculine identity, I feel like it could largely be applied to identity as a whole. Any form of identity requiring validation or confirmation will necessarily become enslaved to others. There will always be those thinking what it should or shouldn't consist of, and where it's value ought be on the social ladder. Its as boundless as humans are opinionated. And if you wish to fight for it, prepare for a battle without end. Whether it be gendered, occupational, educational, hierarchical or sexual, the impersonal identities requiring validation and confirmation will never be free of problems that can't be solved. The true self, the authentic self, has no labels.
Yes. I knew from a young age that I wasn’t straight, but a label like “lesbian” or “bisexual” always seemed so limited, inaccurate, and fuels division and hierarchy. So I went with the label that effectively isn’t one, and requires little explanation: pansexual. There are no bounds to who I could possibly be attracted to. Anyone anywhere, if hot, is hot. Crucially, it doesn’t give people room to question the decisions that I make about my life, because “pan” is effectively a nonlabel that just says “I’ll like who I like.”
My identity is Shaun; Shaun is who I am. Anything I do is a Shaun thing to do, because Shaun is doing it; Anything I want is a Shaun thing to desire, because Shaun is desiring it. I don't have issues with striving towards an identity because I'm already inhabiting it. I require no validation or confirmation, I know that I'm me and that's all I need to be. Other people might think I'm not me, but that's their issue. Whether they believe I'm me or not, I remain.
none of what you said is true. not saying this is you,but weak people who are envious of others achievements will always try to find a way to get rid of that envy. they'll tell you to turn the other cheek when somebody slaps you, don't boast, don't be proud of your achievements, being successful is actually a weakness, and being a "kind"(which isn't really kindness, more likely harmlessness and weakness) is a virtue, being weak is actually strength and acknowledging your strength is weakness. to refute your argument about identites that need validation being enslaved, i'll say this: people who get validated aren't slaves, because people who validate have no other choice BUT to validate. you don't get to choose who you love,or who you like. you don't get to control your emotions or beliefs, if somebody is worth something, you have no other choice BUT to validate them, therefore they aren't your slaves,but your role-models instead. nobody gets to decide where you are on the dominace hyerarchy, hyerarchies are objective and individual perceptions don't affect where you stand. you stand where you stand and that's all you are. authentic self is only good if it stands high on the hyerarchy, and attaching different labels on it isn't gonna change anything. authentic self is useless if it doesn't stand high on they hyerarchy. people can authentically be freaking losers, this isn't good for them and it shouldn't be celebrated just beccause it's authentic. you can authentically be living in your mom's basement in your 30's and celebrating something like this is completely nonsensical.
It's been almost a year since I had a sudden and painful realization that what I was chasing was harming myself and those around me. I'm still trying to figure out what I am, and my self esteem has suffered for it. This video makes me feel recognized, and I appreciate you for putting it out.
I despise the idea of a absolute value of a man or a woman. YOU have 80 or so years on this planet , you won’t be remembered in 160 or so years (generally speaking) why let people tell you how to live when you can make your own meaning?
How is it then that some men are in fact remembered more 160 years after their death? It was through the process of attempting to become known after their death that they increased their personal value. They grew as person. Therefore stop coping, start growing.
@@dannyarcher438 yeah well I think he meant for u to aspire to be like people more akin to Martin Luther King and what have you, not serial killers. The difference between famous and infamous.
@haomavarga it’s whatever you decide it to be. Live by your own moral code and ideals. Not what someone else dictates. Even you want to be super “masculine” than do it. If you want to paint your nails cuz you like it then do it. Basically live the way you like
Fantastic video. I ended up on a very similar journey, falling into the manosphere and eventually finding my way out with the help of some good influences, both men and women. I especially like the quote by Bell Hooks: “To know love, men must be willing to let go of the need to dominate.” I haven’t just learned this, I have lived this. I have much more fulfilling relationships now because I have learned to find an understanding of masculinity that is fundamentally built on connection rather than subjugation.
Reminder that some who “die as a man” are “reborn as a man” too. When one is vague & mystical about this stuff then there’s lots of ways for the story of manhood to continue in cool ways too often ignored by people who don’t really exercise their imagination on the subject.
In my friend group, the ones that got hooked the most with the weird misogynistic evo-psych-ish rethoric were the ones of us that didn't have much interests. When you are a dude bad at sports teachers kind of perceive you as smart/intellectually inclined by default, and it becomes part of your personality (and ego). It was rough growing up and being academically surpassed by mostly women, so probably we were searching for a rationale of why they were getting better results than us if we were, supposedly, the smart ones. Red pill, manosphere content was just that. Even though I'm ashamed of the things I thought (and did) back then, now I realize that it was a way for us to cope with our own mediocrity. I don't know how to word it but we didn't necessarily want to be shitty to women, but to feel good without having any merits. Growing up and pursuing my passions helped me let go of that bitterness.
Well, here's another thing to learn: not all people are like you, not all people have the same responses to the same problems, and, even more important-not all people derive the same lesson from, for example, Jordan Peterson's lectures. When you were using such content as a shield, others, me included, used it to turn their life's around. Talk more to the people that aren't like you. You need to learn.
@@uwontrememberthis well, i have yet to know someone that grew as a person from listening to a guy that thinks that ancient civilizations knew about the structure of dna just because they drew spirals. You are right, maybe a I haven't knew enough people.
Beautiful analysis of masculinity. Helps with understanding the bizarre "alpha-chad" culture shift we find ourselves in. Thank you Sisyphus. Very insightful. You inspire me to do better.
@@absolutewanker9384 is that how you interpreted this? How would you define weakness? And what exactly counts as an achievement? What are we supposed to achieve?
Thank you for your work. This provided a lot of understanding and context for a lot of the things I have been going through recently, dealing with identity crisis for most of my life and feeling myself being swayed to extremes. Buddhism helps me the most in staying centred, remembering to keep finding the middle way. 🙏
I have found all i needed in martial arts interestingly. It gave me brutal strength, realistic confidence while it cultivated and put in place my ego. That in synthesis with my intellectual needs, reading, philosophy, gave me holistic reflexion i needed.
actual martial arts is probably the best way to somewhat satisfy your identity as a man without actually hurting others, you let your aggression and dominance out, not through putting others down, but only through lifting yourself up, while also building self esteem and discipline, I really recomend any men, and in fact, any gender, to try martial arts, its really life changing being able to take out all your frustrations on a piece of rubber while practicing self-discipline
Wow. Just... wow. As someone who troughout the pandemic has been able diverge away from pre-existing gender norms to embrace their individuality, this video is everything I would've needed and touches on every single reflection I have had in the past 3 years. I can only hope it goes to help others.
Growing up I found it to be quite underwhelming when I did actually reach the ideals of masculinity, but depressing and worrying whenever I couldn't. There was an asymmetry and emptiness to it all. I think that led to me eventually understanding the fact of masculinity being nothing more social construction, which was a scary idea but eventually became immensely comforting. something I could critique and choose to listen to or ignore. After that you gain the freedom to be a 'man' in whatever way you want, which I think leads to an authenticity that just makes life easier and better. I used to feel insecure about the 'feminine' aspects of my personality but now I feel most proud of them and happy to have them.
In the coming times of privation and crisis you will see that masculinity is not a construct. It is something needed to survive. If a barbarian robber has a knife to your throat you won't be thinking about deconstructing his masculinity.
Yeah, I always viewed masculinity as embracing who you are and doing whats right for the ones you love. But, I think that definition depends on your role model, as many people exemplify. So, I'd like to thank my dad for being a good role model and god for letting me be so lucky.
Social construction? Are the behavioural/psychological effects of testosterone socially constructed? If it's socially constructed, why do more egalitarian countries exhibit greater differences in personality between genders?
@@immanuelcunt7296 you are still making your point based on the idea that gender expression is a social construction if it can vary across cultures. It's like you didn't understand anything discussed in the video
Liked and agree with most of this - except the comparison that most figures in the "manosphere" would say that the world is to blame for you being a loser and that you connect this idea to Jordan Peterson. My takeaway from jordan peterson was always the opposite, that there's nobody to blame but yourself, which is empowering because it tries to drive home the idea that you should just get up and actively work to get your life in order, rather than blame it on whoever it is that you'd otherwise blame. Impressive video though, enjoyed this a lot!
Agreed that’s the takeaway I get from Peterson - except he does acknowledge that there is of course the degree to which you had setbacks in life. But not that you can do anything about what is by definition out of your control.
@@nachfullbarertrank5230 Idk, I rarely even respond to comments. This one just resonated because I was thinking quite a similar thing while watching and it disturbed me how little explanation there often was in support of statements in the vid. How you can prescribe to Jordan Peterson the idea that the world is the way it is because of "wokes" or something is heavy r-worded.
Great video! I am a middle aged guy with ASD, and have always been faced with the usual animosity you could expect a quiet, bookworm type to be forced to contend with. Finally, I have learned to follow my own path regardless of what others think and have all but shed these archaic concepts of what a "man should be" and what "a real woman" is.
Serious comment: I really don't like the underlying assumption that men's problems aren't "real" in the sense that other groups' problems are. Like, when we talk about men exhibiting aggrieved entitlement, we're saying very explicitly that men do not deserve the improvements in quality of life that they're looking for. What kind of person would look a lonely, financially destitute person in the eye and say to them, "You do not deserve the success you're looking for"? Is this how we want to be engaging with our fellow human beings?
i find that they meant that their problems come from more personality causes. like a bad upbringing and opposed to systematic oppression. everyone deserves more quality of life, but some people trip over their shoelaces far more than others. and yet still refuse to tie them.
These people aren’t liberal, they view everything in terms of group dynamics. If a man has problems, he’ll get treated as the rest of his ‘oppressive’ group identity. This is why some men gravitate to the horrible redpill shit since it’s a classic outgroup attack response.
That's because they say they're entitled to being loved by having a gf, no one is entitled to being loved. Other than than that issue i don't know what you mean by aggrieved entitlement.
Agreed. That was the only part of this video which was both pervasive and which I don't agree with. The struggles of the straight-white young man are fundamentally viewed in a different light than those of minority groups. It is entitlement rather than healthy aspiration, toxic aggression rather than rightful protest. Ironically in the video it is emphasized that empathy and compassion are the best tools in decreasing in-group/out-group hostility. Yet it is so notoriously difficult to extend this compassion to men in this category. It is not a wonder to me that so many young men find solace in the words of public figures like Jordan Peterson. The whole world seemingly regards your disadvantages as irrelevant, at best, and deserved or earned, at worst. For naught but being born straight and/or white, you are either to sacrifice your self-worth on the altar of social justice, or clamor in the opposite direction, rooting your identity as deeply as possible in traditional (and toxic) masculine stereotypes. Young men hear what they _shouldn't_ be so often, yet are never given hints as to what they _should_ be. The manosphere/alpha male/redpill communities therefore have an advantage because they offer a path, providing rigid guidance rather than arbitrary admonishments. Young men need good role models, not lectures on the patriarchy that they had no choice of participation in.
@@emiliosalazar9962 i'm not making a comparison, women also feel entitled to stuff but criticising those entitlements is good, we shouldn't make excuses for these behaviours regardless of gender.
For a long time, I couldn't not put it, this feeling you described into words. Thank you, for helping me give words to what I have been going through for the last 3 years. May everyone here find the answers they are looking for.
As I’d probably label myself a fairly feminine guy who lives in Scotland I certainly didn’t realise the absolute depths that this whole ‘manosphere’ goes it’s wild. I’m a dad and certainly never required any overt masculinity myself when it come to self worth or meeting women but I can appreciate I’m a single person in that sense. But in my work life I have interacted with some young boys/men who seem to fit this bill and it always confused me why they cared so much about others perception and let it drive there behaviour. Quite aware of incel types and there whole thing but it’s very interesting getting such insight and listening how you’ve made such changes in your life, you should be proud of your introspection and I really hope this helps some others out that need it. Much love my guy, newcomer but I’ll stick around. Also if any young men see this which they might not I’d implore you to seek something you really care about as an individual, I’ve found love in many people and different passions that honestly make each day worth living that don’t conform to any ridged ideals. You’ll find your own happiness when you start working out who you are, not how you are perceived.
So as i see it - Boys are told to be strong, to stop crying, to not look back and to not rely on others and if they dont do that then other people, mostly men, will see them as weak and will abuse them. Musculinity represents fear of community and love for self. On the other hand, girls are told to be kind, expressive, thoughtful of others, sometimes even to be subserviant, etc. and if they dont do that then they will be forgotten, forever alone and sad. Femininity represents fear of self and love for community.
Between this and bell hooks video, I am now a fan of your work. This video explained the allure of the Manosphere in an elegant, concise and entertaining way. Bravo!
My grandfather wasn't rich, in fact, by any modern metric he was poor. He did however build his house and farm and raise 6 kids later resulting in many grandchildren. He was loved and respected by all. He transferred his values to his children. Divorce, cheating, abuse, drunkenness were foreign concepts to him that were as possible as jumping off a bridge, in that, sure you could. He embodied the "priest, prophet, and king" model of what a man should be even if im not sure he ever heard of it per se.
Back in our grandfather's times, standards for men were basically "don't be obese or a drunkard and have a job". Houses costed pennies compared to what they cost today. Nowadays you better be a CEO or a doctor earning six figures with a ripped physique and a millionaire to afford a one-bedroom dingy apartment in a run-down neighborhood.
Your channel has helped me a lot over the past couple of years, to reflect, serving as a reminder to listen to people around me and to try to be more understanding.
I too hope for this but am doubtful it will come, especially via the figureheads of the movement. Though I do hope this will reach those on the periphery, the audiences and smaller creators, and engender evaluation.
@@shanefoster2132 Recently just left the movement, and from what I can tell it's almost dead. Andrew Tate will still be here, no doubt, but anything without his level of fame is gone. I used to consume all this "Reject Modernity" shit, and from cleaning up my recommendations, it was a flash in the pan. From 300k views in a week to barely scratching 10k. The discussion will never come, or if it does nobody will hear it. Ultimately, by the end of the year the last idiots screaming about this shit will move on or go underground.
Thank you for making this video, its insightful in looking at this phenomenon, but i do feel in this video that sometimes the extremes of “manosphere” is taken as the common principles of it. Being loving & caring is also a part of mascuinity, increasing abilities of self through learning new skills and exploring the world can, and is considered as masculinity. From a personal experience, the red pill community is self growth, physical fitness, sitting down in the morning at the desk and jotting down goals to accomplish and staying disciplined to finish the goals. Being a follower of the red pill community does not always mean dreaming of a guy with a expensive watch or a luxury car, but enjoying the finer things in life - family, friendship and community and being ambitious in the things an individual loves to do. It does not include hating on things - being the angry young man(hilarious term tho it may be😂). But i really do appreciate the making of the video as it allows discussions like this and makes people think and question themselves and their ideologies. Those who sexualise women can go fuck themselves.
As someone who has digested the whole red pill and seen past it to make society better than the red pill ever could, I think that this is a great video
@Raul Deen The redpill sells itself and believes that it is the _ultimate reality._ Adherents would laugh if you claimed to see behind it…but perhaps complacently…
i am literally at 1:01 in the video and i'm gonna go* on a bike ride and listen to this. Such a fan of your channel really inspires me to be a more expressive creative. thanks
The effort you put in this video is amazing. Thank you for keeping the content rich with sources and also your personal insight and interpretation. Beautiful stuff man 👍
Hey, just wanted to say I really have been enjoying your videos lately, mainly while I draw, and not really for any particular interest in a topic, but for your pacing and calmness, I find in your voice and the effort in each chosen subject. so thank you for putting time into these scripts and videos. I needed a break from the intense speed everything been going at lately, it's helped slow things down for a bit now.
what a STEP UP from 10 min videos to full fledged mini documental! Have been following your channel for years and will keep on doing it! Love to see your evolution ;)
your channel is the reason why i chose to take a philosophy class in school. however these videos did not take into account how much people will talk down to you in a philosophy class! either way, i’m excited to learn more about philosophy in a formal education setting while still watching your channel in my free time :) hope my brain doesn’t overload
philosophy is on par with psychology for being the class for people too stupid to do biology which is the most basic science class. I am sorry but I have to make fun of you for picking such a dumb subject.
Im returning to this video again. I've used it alot and i send it to women to help them understand men. The problem of hating women is giant today, also these ideals feed unjustice with unjust accountability. I wholeheartedly deem this video a masterpiece. It is just so filled with sympathi. Thank you for this channel, my favourite one on youtube 👏👏🙌
Thank you for this video. The whole 'rejecting or accepting orders is alike because of the one giving the orders' I've never really thought about before. And that outside pressures should not be a large factor in my life for my decisions. I should choose to make my own decisions based off what I want and not what others expect of me. I can't believe it's taken me this long to realise and internalise this.
It’s gonna sound weird, but as a cis woman, I almost feel like this is as important for us to watch as it is for cis men. It’s a reminder that, as a more or less suppressed group, we can’t forget that dehumanisation goes both ways. We tend to demonise the concept of the white man, but of course that also means that young boys and men today feel like they don’t deserve to have any kind of pride in their own existence. So it’s no wonder some of them become jaded and bitter about, well, everything. There’s nothing wrong with feeling happy to be a guy or being masculine. The issue is when those traits are either framed as superior or as an excuse to hurt others. Still, no red-pilled guy is ever going to listen to our side of the argument, if they know they’re being demonised and looked down upon. If we want to be humanised by them, we should do the same back, otherwise we’re no better than those that have become so stuck in their toxic world view that they refuse to get out of the muck and have a constructive debate! That being said, I can see how those podcasts could be a good thing, if they focused on healthy masculinity, like learning to be self-sufficient, taking charge of your own life and working to become healthier both mentally and physically. But those insane, rigid and often contradictory stereotypes that are being pushed onto the listeners, aren’t healthy. They discourage such basic things as sleeping or relaxing. They claim that any emotion that is not anger is bad, and that being happy isn’t even possible for a man, because all a man must know is pain and suffering, or he is weak. That’s the most horrific “advice” possible! I just wish it could’ve stuck with “Clean your room, take a nice shower and take a little walk once in a while. It’s good for you, and people around you will be able to sense that you’re working on yourself in a positive way.”
That's how it always is, no? Any group that that caters to an identity group and tells them that the world treats them unfairly - as true as it might be - will inevitably end up attracting people who hate out-groups and start pushing insane stuff. Are redpillers and feminists, white and black supremacists, nazis and communists, etc. all that different?
Thank God this video exists and its very complete. This Is such a good start for self education about societal issues without resorting to the stereotypes that would usually harm the discourse
As long as men outsource their own fulfilment, joy, motivation and contentment they will cling and attach to "in groups". Doesn't matter if you are straight, gay, bi, trans, left, right or whatever. Awakened masculine energy does not need validation. A man does what he is called to do. He is who he is without worrying about appearance or opinion of others. An awakened masculine energy is a creator, protector, builder and leader. Everything else is just attachment. Boys crying over perceived issues or lack of validation. These discussions get one thing right. Man up and be yourself. Don't let anyone define who you should be but don't angrily project onto others who they should be either. Social programming wants you to compete and be divided. So called male gurus thrive and profit from your doubt in being yourself and seek to mold you in the way that will aid them or validate them. You are all you need men. Money, women, muscles, cars, prestige and so forth are nothing but distraction to your own journey to self-actualization. Go beyond the bias and comfort of familiar views. Your role as men is to protect, build, create but also to love, feel, imagine and see. No awakened man worries about other men or competes with them. He only competes and masters himself. Stop seeking validation and fulfilment outside yourself. You are all you need. Everything else is just bonus. Be blessed brothers.
As a transwoman, it's interesting to hear about the the specific kinds of insecurities that former manosphere folks have. Thank you for sharing, I think I understand it now! Also, cheers for not skirting around relevant trans issues, it's refreshing to see cis folks willing to engage in parts of the conversation that may be uncomfortable for some :)
HOLY SHIT! This is my absolute favorite video you have ever done. This may be the best video on youtube period (at least as far as I have seen). Bravo. I’m also very happy that you’re looking into and applying Buddhist practice. I cannot tell you how incredible and fulfilling the Dharma is…as you have now found/are now finding out-just Bravo. Also: I love the oceanographer motif. Makes me think of The Life Aquatic in the best way.
Started watching in 2017 but haven’t commented much, figured this would be a good time to. Thanks for all the content you’ve made over the years, your journey has influenced mine and I think it has been for the best. If the manosphere happened when I was in middle school I can absolutely imagine falling down that path. Your channel provided a similar but more positive fulfillment. Keep up the work and I dedicate this comment to the a l g o r i t h m.
Well constructed, and well deconstructed. As an individual born under the terrible curse of being a "white male" who has become rather embroiled in the manosphere in the last year, and who a few short years ago was able to overcome C-PTSD through insights given by Dr Peterson's lectures, I must say that I have not encountered the 90% of the toxicity referred to in this video. That being said, I've always had a strong intuition. I follow my heart and it has never led me astray. I avoid toxic people and ideologies as much as I am able to, with all my limited knowledge and biases. I know well of the human capacity for evil. I've encountered it first hand, secondhand, and third. I know the toxicity you speak of exists. I've seen it too. But not to the rampant degree that seems implied by your video. It does seem there is odd propensity to place all the world's problems at the feet of masculine men. Why is that, I wonder? Perhaps I am blind to it all, unable to see past the hair on my chin, and unable to smell the corruption through my own sweaty musk. As I said, a well constructed video. But I still don't see evidence that *masculinity*, in and of itself, is a problem in the world. I think more so, that the male capacity for evil is more well defined, vivid, and BOLD than the female's. In my estimation, what needs to be attended to, is the causes, the factors that push a man, or anyone else for that matter, to commit evil deeds, as opposed to loving ones. Please, leave a comment below mine. I am terribly interested to hear what you(who has bothered to read thus far) have to say.
I think my input of experiences might be beneficial to you in understanding the presence of some of the things mentioned in this video. Back around when I was in middle school, I had a very large amount of trouble regarding my identity and being perceived as a man. When I looked for answers online I came across the very early stages of the current day manosphere. Though I didn't personally have an experience with being dehumanized regarding wanting to present as a masculine person in my American conservative suburb, I can say I definitely did have the experience mentioned at 10:50. This happened to such an extent even that almost every video recommended to me on TH-cam was compilations with titles resembling "SJW cringe compilation ep. x" that meant to portray people with other beliefs, including ones on gender, as if they were zoo exhibits meant to be laughed at for their primitiveness. What I was in is now referred to as the alt right media pipeline, and in my experience the entire reasoning for those to exist. By the start of my time at high school, I had for the most part stopped watching that type of content and I had also transferred schools to one with much less of conservative values echo chamber and thus actually had a student population where some students actually were open about not being on the gender binary I had ingrained into me at the time; at the very start, I still held those values close and it took one of my close friends at the time to come out themselves for me to seriously consider if my dehumanization of transgender people was right. With time my entire viewpoint changed, but that change made me undergo some self introspection of my own. I had determined that my struggle in the first place during middle school in regards to not feeling enough like a man had more to do with me actually not being a part of the gender binary I was so sure existed. In the following years I have become more open in regards to my gender identity, and in doing so I have in turn met people who did come to me solely to say I'm crazy to not say I'm a man and other hateful words. The culture that I used previously to seek help for my qualms about my identity has now turned to active hate towards me in what I now feel is the right thing for me. Now I understand that my experience is very different from what you have had in regards to the manosphere, and that's actually what prompted me to put my experience out there. While it seems like you have been able to find comfort in some words from Jordan peterson (I'd like to point out that I think his stuff prior to him gaining notreriety is actually good advice and saying this isn't a diss towards someone you were able to gain help from), the manosphere does have a thriving culture that is based off of hate and actively dehumanizing people which I now recognize I actively partook in when I was younger. And I don't think I would have been able to recognize that I did indeed do this without experiencing it myself after I finally gained an understanding that I wasn't on the gender binary. Now I'm already aware that my comment won't become a eureka moment in regards to your beliefs or anyone else who decides to read this, but I hope that my perspective will be able to help someone on a journey to be able to recognise some beliefs that might make people do what I regret having done in middle school. I also know that a lot of people who are transgender tend to have little patience towards people invested into the manosphere (which I assume to be a defense against harassment from experiences with extreme views, sometimes to the extent of death threats for some of my peers), but I ask that if you end up interacting with a trans person, ask if they are comfortable talking about their personal experience, I know that if I had this advice back in middle school I would have been able to enjoy a much larger amount of my childhood. I hope that sharing my perspective might be of some significance to you (especially since I got a little carried away in how much I wrote). Lastly, I apologise if this was poorly written, I intended on sleeping before I decided to start writing this so I already know this isn't my best work. I'm open to sharing some more of my experiences if you're interested.
Probably one of the best videos I have ever watched. Well organized and well done. You critiqued masculinity in a way that anyone can accept. And then beautifully wrapped it all up with a great epilogue. Well done
I'm a woman and weirdly enough since a very young age I was always chasing after being masculine because my self-worth was put on the boys that didn't accept me as one of them because I was female Over the years I even questioned if there was something within me that transitioning may fix And though I do think that what I felt was at least some kind of dysphoria, I quickly realized that if I were to be born a man initially, Id try to combat the gender norms by trying to be as feminine as possible, since it wasn't me who I hated, but the way people saw me based on my gender identity Right now in my life, I guess I'm kind of on the non-binary spectrum? Not really? I don't really like labels, they can help you discover yourself but people get lost in them, your gender is a label in and of itself in which you get lost in People are way too diverse to live in a society so desperate to organize itself with such one-sided ideas Personally I believe that the world would be a better place if people treated each other as people And it's okay if some of yourself fits into the labels and some doesn't I myself have lived a big portion of my life in the "edge lord" phase, where my actions still depended on others expectations of me, I just tried to be the opposite of what I was told I know better now and that is to just see yourself and other people as simply extremely diverse humans You don't have to agree, just listen to each other This has helped me immensely at understanding myself and I absolutely love this video and this channel Don't know why I felt the need to share but it hit home so why not, maybe someone out there can relate :)
As someone who feels practically the exact same way when growing up, it's wild to see someone else who has grown up in a very similar way and struggled the same, glad to know i'm not alone!
@@rionexteam87 Yupp, it is weird but I think it's much more common than it seems Gender roles, expectations and labels are just not good for the mind I'm glad you could relate and I'm not alone either :)
as a man who drives forklifts for a living and runs my femboy page in my spare time, thankyou for speaking for those in the middle ground. in a world of extreme opinions, thankyou for bringing levelheadedness to discuss this
This video brings me confusion, and that is always uncomfortable feeling, yet it makes desire to further discover and unveil the various paths I’ve taken over my life.
Not going to waste anyone's time by writing up a pages-long criticism of this video on TH-cam of all places, but between the constant invocation of the ultimately meaningless phrases "gender-identity" and "social constructivism", and the conflation of ideologies of people like Peterson with people like Tate (which is just uncharitable at the absolute best), the video mutates into precisely what it accuses white men of being overly sensitive about. A disparaging hit piece with the underlying premise that "white masculinity bad and power-hungry, literally _anything_ else good." I also wouldn't normally say this here, but I'm black, and found this video to be of the essence of the very particular type of haughty condescension that only white liberals are capable of. The abandonment of traditional masculinity by society has a lot to do with the current state of destitution in the black American family, wherein two-thirds of homes are absent a father.
I don't like the term manosphere tbh Kinda has "mansplaining" vibes to it and implies that this is what men in 2022 are like, giving the equally toxic zoomer left a reason to think their own prejudices are valid
The way I understand it "manosphere" refers to internet content creators/gurus that push different "true" narratives on what a man should de do be self-actualized as a man in this world that is sooo "backwards" and far away from that truth. They might not say that outright and through some stats and cherry picked phenomena to back stuff up. But yeah, they're basically the men on the internet pushing their ideals of manhood and manliness, not every single man in 2022 or what men are now like, no, it just applies to those gurus and their ideas and communities.
I think after being around women for most of my life, I’ve lost sight of what most men actually think and feel. And now I feel as both the punching bag for women as well as the example of “look at a non-toxic male!”. Something I’ve noticed is that in pursuit of trying to find find femininity, a lot of feminists will still say “screw all men”, and I’ve seen why they’ve come to this realization. The amount of times that they were harmed by men, someone they cared about was- and I’ve been on the receiving end as well for that (hence why I don’t really have many male friends. I’ve never been seen as “manly” enough I suppose) But I think it’s unhealthy as well to just dismiss the cause of why men harm, why men feel isolated and why the divide between men and women only grows further and further- more hatred building up between both. My goal this year is to make more male friends, to see if my theory is correct about how to combat this. My idea is that people need a healthy balance of masculinity and femininity- and not to disregard either. I’m a very feminine man but I lack confidence or the ability to stand up for myself. I think the only way to stop us from eating each other alive is- like you said- through empathy. The willingness to open up with each other, to genuinely listen, and- this is key, to not compare who’s had it worse. Just present sides. We’ve all been given a shitty hand when it comes to life. All of us, doesn’t matter what gender you are or what your sexuality might be, we were all fucked from the get go. If you were born in the late 90’s or early 2000’s, you’ve been told of all the ways the earth could end, how you were simultaneously supposed to solve it all while being given vague guidance of how to or NO guidance at all (from older generations that ignore the fact that they caused a lot of it or say “I’m sorry I can’t do much more to help..”), you’ve most likely received great trauma that’s either ignored or validated (and if it’s validated then you’ll see how there’s not much else to do about it) your dreams can either be dashed by the fact that people say you’ll never be able to get there, by your lack of ability or the fact that you made that dream possible and you’re still unhappy- AND on top of ALL of that- you’re seen as a monster for who you are by strangers or family. You’ve probably been given contradictory advice from so many different people that you don’t know what the hell to think anymore, what to feel. All the while being constantly reminded that in the end… the sun’s gonna blow up anyway. No wonder so many people cling to finding purpose in groups. This world is an absolute nightmare where every glimmer of hope is stomped into oblivion… SO. The way I see it, we can either let ourselves EAT each other, or we can just listen. Go in with the idea of not saying “okay, I’m gonna base everything I know of you on how you look or your associations.” Believe it or not, humans do genuinely want to help each other out, and in dire situations we would be there for each other (of course some people would be dicks, people can be dicks already! Don’t add to the pile) go in with the idea of not CHANGING the opposing person, but just knowing who they are. What their deal is, what lead them to be who they are now. Be firm with your stances, but be willing to accept when you’re in the wrong (it’ll stop the other person from saying that you’re being unreasonable, because if you accept when you’re wrong THEY’LL be able to break down when they’re wrong as well, leading to more agreements. Not only recognizing that we’re not perfect, but ACCEPTING that we’ll be wrong is key.) If you’re arguing a point, be respectful and STAY on the point. And more than anything, invite the person to be your friend. Either through games or a drink or anything, you don’t gotta like them, but seeing that person as human is the only way we’re getting out of this. And that’s all I gotta say about it, I’m really sorry for rambling but I wanted to get this off my chest. We’ve been through some absolute shit and we’re going through even more… so I genuinely hope you have a good day. Take care :)
I feel like you are 'attacking' a manosphere that is shown to the outside by the media and famous characters such as Andrew Tate. (I call it a character since the things he says in longer form content is way less extreme than what was shown in the short tiktok clips). And the messages that are shown on this cover of the manosphere are totally not like the current inside of the manosphere. All of the channels I watch that have smaller audiences inside the manosphere just want men to better themselves in all ways of life to win over a woman, and not to be entitled to one.
I loved this topic and the bravery it took to say lots of those key points. I have struggled with masculinity conceptions as well, but I believed it was somewhat ironic hearing about the identity struggle as a white male. The race aspect does not bother me, but as a half Mexican half white American, I have struggled with not only that identity confidence crisis but with forms of passive aggressive discrimination, which can have a bigger impact on an individual and their relationship with their persona. I just believe that this is an important aspect of the discussion on masculinity and its struggles.
I am a woman and I genuinely enjoyed this video.Firstly it is so well articulated!I hope everyone watches this or tries to dive into this concept because it concerns our society so much and affects all of us regardless of gender.
This is your best video dude! incredibly comprehensive, topical, easy to understand yet still teaching some very complex topics. Bravo! Hope to see more long form content like this in the future
Hope he’s fair to show that Peterson saying “if all the women are rejecting, it’s not them, it’s you” is a starkly different message than Tate saying to literally mistreat women.
@@ethybubs even if you could take what he says out of context and in the most bad faith way, you couldn’t possibly make the argument he’s at the same level of Andrew Tate.
I want to say thank you for the video it was an enjoyable watch. I my self feel as though I am currently going through an identity crisis and honestly I'm not sure what to do. I mean I'm a year away from graduating college and possibly going to medical school and I feel happy or at least everyone says I should be happy and proud yet I feel like as though I am not enough. I feel insufficient as a man, a son, a brother, a friend, and a partner. I feel as though I'm free falling in infinite darkness and I just power through day by day telling myself the next day will be better, that I'll feel some satisfaction with my self. However, this never happens the cycle just repeats. No one has taught me how to find worth in this life and I am not sure if it is something I learn myself or if life will teach me that lesson eventually. I value the people around me and I do my best to not take anyone for granted. The reason I point this out is because the video gives clear indication as to what the traps of the said "manosphere" is and how it is to fall into those. Yet how does one currently suffering from a similar experience to yours find fulfillment? Because I can postulate to myself a variety of individual solutions that may potentially work, but I don't understand how to be a man when society either teaches you to hate women, and everyone else that some people in society decide should be under the prescribed ideal man. Or it teaches you to let go of the idea of masculinity in general. Neither of those seem correct to me in any sense. I don't believe anyone should have to be something predetermined by society or by other people. I believe it should be an individual action to find your own identity, but an identity that those not impose domination or hierarchy on everyone else. Is there some book or something I can do to discover my own identity? Quick side note. In the epilogue you mention Charle's Darwin's hypothesis "Survival of the fittest" stating that organisms were flexible and could adapt to their ever changing environmental conditions. Generally this is a misconception. Organisms don't adapt, they experience mutations and if the mutations are favorable and allows the organism to survive longer, then that organism is considered fit. Fitness in Darwin's terms simply implies that an organism lives sufficiently long to produce offspring in a generally variable environment. A very good example that illustrates this idea is giraffes and leaves. Giraffes didn't evolve by growing their necks individually to be able to reach the leaves on a tree. Some giraffes had mutations that gave them a slightly longer neck which allowed them to eat some of the leaves on trees, these giraffes were more likely to live longer and pass on these traits. Again, thank you for the video.
i find often when you remove the strange performance and hierarchical aspects of what bring a man should be, you just get the plans for what being a good person should be.
Phenomenal video essay! Thanks for putting it together. I know there are so many others like myself who need or will need to hear this. Definitely going to revisit this in the future to make sure I'm asking myself the right questions. Good stuff man:)
hey man! This video is a great resource for finding reading materials on the subject and very well presented :)) I'm working on an article for a Scottish magazine on the same issue. I don't have as much room to discuss as you have put in this and I'm mainly going to focus on the pre-radicalization phase of the Manosphere, kind of the waterline of the iceberg. I want to look show people who might not be very aware of it what the surface of this area looks like and also what role algorithms and idolism plays in trapping people who may have originally been seeking entertainment in that ideological echo chamber. Thank you again for this video :))
I’m young and don’t truly know what to make of myself. I’ve subscribed to a minority of the ideas of the Mano sphere but a lot I haven’t and it’s for the better. It’s tough to know who to listen to because you get people who are trying to fill you with ideas for their own gain and people who genuinely believe they are helping because what worked for them must work for you, but end up doing damage. The masculine idea has helped me but I know it’s flawed like everything so I take it with a grain of salt. I’ve seen a lot in the comments(I can’t exactly remember if this was discussed in the video) about the idea of being who you are and authentic. While I think there is merit in this because trying to fit in is a constant uphill battle that will leave you upset and disappointed. But I feel like maybe a lot of people have an idea of what is authentically them but it isn’t and maybe if it is it’s more detrimental. If being a recluse is authentically you but you feel unhappier as a result, should you stick to it because it’s who you are or should you try to change who you are fundamentally to something ‘better’ which of course is subjective so I don’t really know. I can’t really put what I’m trying to say into words effectively and I believe I’ll be easily misunderstood. So I’m willing to try and clarify what I mean and discuss it if anyone is willing to. I have too many conflicting ideas and not enough ability to sort them into a cohesive argument. If that makes sense. I better get back to doing my math homework I’ve procrastinated too long.
the fastest way to know yourself is to experience life yourself even amidst failure, instead of accepting ideas not your own. The only difference between an adult and a gullible child is experience. With experience you will know what is your own "better".
I'm a girl, and I love your work. I shared this one on my socials and sent it to 2 friends. Your thinking/writing is well organized and sourced and refreshingly human. I even dig the stick figures 😊 Glad I subbed 🙂👍
This was so flipping well written it was beyond inspiring. You and FD Signifier are so talented and smart - thank you for this. I am a 42 yo black cis gendered woman from Bermuda. Bravo sir.
For me its never was about being masculine. It was about facing existence with all its hardships and not looking away, not numbing yourself with mindless entertaiment, killing your ego and admitting failings. Its about growing stronger, not coping. Because the pain...its not gonna go away, but as a human you can outgrow suffering. Hence if you are adult human being and you suffer, you probably deserve it. Instead of simply coping, conquer yourself, and by it conquer your own part of existence. By the end it doesnt matter what have you achieved. Not everyone can be Napoleon. Its how you lived that counts. Be disciplined. Strive to be better. Don't let this world tear you apart.
'being masculine' is an ideal. And ideals give motivation. I'm not into this whole masculinity thing because I find it to be stupid but for people that buy it, it is a good way to cope with their wretched life
it's not often that a youtube video comes along that feels like it could truly and meaningfully spark a positive change in somebody, but if there's ever been one that fits the bill, here it is. I appreciate you opening up about your own struggles and your own journey. To be a bit tongue-in-cheek, we're all gonna make it brah.
what a beautiful piece. you rarely see a video be this refined and efficient at getting its point across. i love the way you tied your story into the video. you did an outstanding job and i am proud of you even tho i have very little of an idea who you are. and i hope that you are proud too.
This is because loneliness often results in a resentment towards women and attracts these lonely young men to figures who criticize women and tell them “It’s not your fault women reject you, it’s society’s.” Loneliness comes in all forms, you can feel lonely due to lack of peers, lack of support from family, lack of role models, not just with women. What makes rejection from women harder is due to the fact that it is emasculating and creates insecurity in one’s masculinity. The red pill movement utilizes the same mindset as Qanon and other conspiracy theories, “If you agree with me you have done your research and are smart, and if you disagree it is because you are brainwashed and your opinions have all formed due to the lies of society.”
Excellent video, both great content and production. Glad I had a Dad who was a positive model and a mother who appreciated that in him. First of your videos I cane across. Glad I did.
I think your final remarks hits a similar note to David Foster Wallace's This is Water speech about thinking critically about ones choices. (Below for reference is what I'm referring to) "' There are these two young fish swimming along and they happen to meet an older fish swimming the other way, who nods at them and says “Morning, boys. How’s the water?” And the two young fish swim on for a bit, and then eventually one of them looks over at the other and goes “What the hell is water?” [...] The point of the fish story is merely that the most obvious, important realities are often the ones that are hardest to see and talk about. Stated as an English sentence, of course, this is just a banal platitude, but the fact is that in the day to day trenches of adult existence, banal platitudes can have a life or death importance [...] '''
This video here is such a great piece that exemplifies a dramatic change in how we perceive and conceptualize our belief systems in this age of information. Projects like these are likely completely novel in the history of our species. The fact that we can so quickly quantify and identify emergent ideologies in the very time that they are being developed opens opportunities for us as individuals to step outside of our echo chambers of traditional belief structures and personal identities that follow from them which we are all predisposed to in some facet or another, and to objectify them in a manner that invites self-reflection and inquisition toward progression. This seems to be one major transformation in how we contend with the state of our cultural climate. A really great video that goes down each level of abstraction to relate how esoteric political philosophy and sociological theory corresponds to everyday occurrences that concern popular notions and behaviors that are reminiscent of those abstract concepts. At what other point in time was there such continuity and accessibility in examining social phenomena while also having the ability to research the implications of such through scholastic works that not even a century ago was available only for a privileged minority. As far as the subject matter is concerned, this video does allude to problems that involve the angst which results from a social constructivist evaluation of gender and gender identity in that it dissolves any rigidity of long held beliefs about masculine and feminine conventions. This inevitably creates controversy and uncertainty upon the question of how we approach the issue of intersexual orientation on a cultural scale when the very constructs themselves may become so fluid that the traditional social dynamics between man and women become completely irrelevant and possibly become artifacts of a bigoted era. With my presumption that sexuality in its essence, is an irrational drive, but for that reason a very salient one, I start to hold a pessimism in the possibility that the nature of sexual identity and the self-affirming behaviors that emerge because of it are malleable to a point that would negate those maladaptive outcomes. The manosphere seems to be a multi-dimensional safe haven for a cohort of individuals who feel that they're social identities are taken for granted and misunderstood by other groups. The appeal of this ideology is likely most suited for adolescents and young adults who have a precarious developing self-image. If we were to meta-humanize this community in a nutshell it may result in the realization that these dated notions of subordinating your personal identify to a paramount tenet of debaucherous masculinity is a result of the perpetuation and glorification by generations of past patriarchal institutions which have anchored naïve men to these homogenous attitudes. it may only be indicative of them not yet having the time to recognize that these ideals are relics of the past which have implicit in them, an insistence upon an asymmetry of power to validate systems and values of which men traditionally represent. So, in summary this may only be a byproduct of what impressionable young men gravitate toward given that they have such little experience with the real world (i.e., relationships, professions, ideas etc.) that this community serves as a placeholder for a worldview which is substantiated by real world interactions and experiences that acknowledge the nuances and genuine heterodoxy that characterize the complexity of people and their beliefs which is adopted later in life.
The part that really got to me was the part about lobster tears and the whole dehumanisation section. When I was on the outskirts of the manosphere, I kept hearing all of these terrible things being said about women and I always doubted a lot of them, but for some reason I felt like I couldn’t deny their claims because… well, I’m not a woman. As a result, they managed to drill this idea of “what women say and what women do are two different things.” And I never bought into it, but I just felt like I couldn’t give up that facade because they told me that I was pathetic for doing it.
I do want to say that categorizing people by sexuality, gender, and race does exclude one thing: disability and/or neurodivergency. Often, disabilities are ignored as a thing that makes someone a minority, even though most people agree that people who are disabled face discrimination and oppression. This is especially true for people with social or cognitive disabilities as these abilities are ignored, downplayed, or even glorified at times. For instance, I am a person with high functioning autism and ADHD. I am often told that my autism makes me "smarter than most people" or that "I don't seem like I have a disability". That or I am told that this disability makes me different or quirky, but doesn't give me much trouble beyond that. And this leads people to completely dismiss the social aspect of it and hold me up to the same standards as a neurotypical person. Like, if I am accidentally rude or awkward, miss social cues, or fail to use a polite tone, I am told I am being manipulative or bitchy or smth like that. And if I explain it's because of my autism, I'm told I'm just making excuses and should try harder. And it's hard because no matter how much I try to explain that I am autistic and that means I can be blunt without realizing, I am still dismissed as "making excuses". And it's not like I am saying I am completely incapable of learning this stuff, I most certainly am and have learned quite a lot. I'm not a helpless child after all. However, I can't just subconsciously know what I don't fully understand or haven't fully learned. And with my ADHD, I was told once that my ADHD isn;'t even a disability and most people are faking it. And this puts straight white men who are neurodivergent in a weird position. They aren't as opressed as most neurodivergent people, and they have a lot of privilege, but they still face discrimination and struggles that most white straight men just don't. But this is often overlooked as an actual oppressed group or minority, so they are still told to "check their privilege". These men are often isolated by society and ostracized by those around them, particularly if they have autism as that greatly hinders a person's social skills. And this makes these men vulnerable and desperate to belong. And so they turn to places like the manosphere which provide them a community they likely never got before. This becomes a source of stability for them, making them cling to it pretty tightly. This also leads these men to blame society and grow bitter towards it, since the society that is apparently so privileged for them has rejected these men. It can make them think that liberals telling them that they aren't oppressed and poc, lgbtq, and/or women are the real oppressed groups are lying as well... they aren't any of those things and they are oppressed. That's why I think we need to take neurodivergency into account because it excludes an entire group of people who are indeed a minority and face discrimination. And if you browse blackpill or redpill forums, you'll notice quite a few of these men are neurodivergent and do a lot of self loathing because of it. A lot of these men are quite vulnerable, and these vulnerability makes it easy for them to be molded into bigoted assholes.
so true!! The things I've heard people say to dismiss neurodivergency can be so harmful and I agree we should take neurodivergency into account as valid experiences
I love your vids. And this is one of the best (*accessible/fun) on the subject, without losing any of the request depth the subject deserves. Thank you.
42:22 this was spot on, this was the thought that created a lot of negativity in me. Thank you very much for making these videos, they really do help (and are very interesting to watch)
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Omg, this is soon bad, worst video you've ever made. Just absolute nonsense.
@@jayBBvid95 Can't have men waking up and leaving the plantation, man, CIA directs have to go out to breadtube to clampdown.
I think every identity group has the doubling down syndrome
If you put Indians in America, they do everything to prove they are indians to actual indians - they pray and go to temples and wear as much culture as they can
Same with men - you put a man in a relationship with a stronger woman, they do everything to prove they "wear the pants in the relationship"
@@jayBBvid95 failing to*
Not only did Darwin NEVER say that the strongest or "best at dominating" will survive. He said that the ones most able to adapt what their environment required of them, woud survive, as well as the ones able to cooperate.
He also said that the pinnacle and most evolved and noble attitude of humanity was our love and compassion towards other animals. As did Einstein. Which for some reason everyone ignores.
The notion of "the struggle for existence" already presupposes that life is driven towards domination. Even when you show animals compassion you do so because you do not naturally fear them like a bird, you completely dominate them. But you are never going to ever "cooperate" with a polar bear so your usage of the term doesn't even make sense. Cooperation between two humans is motivated by the will to dominate the environment. Adaption in darwinism is just pure luck where those that don't fit in are killed and don't get to pass off their genes. That's what he meant by adaptation, he's not a lamarckian in ehich he thinks you can accrue traits over time based on how you live. It's all determined at birth according to him. It's arguably not even wholly efficient since many female birds select for so many useless and ridiculous traits to the point where it has become detrimental to the male bird.
@@dreyri2736 and your point is?
@@bl-vy6bm that Darwin's idea of adaptation is not what you think it is.
@@joaovmlsilva3509 that is what darwinism is about. You don't influence evolution by yourself, that's Lamarckism, except maybe through eugenics but even that's not a perfect method that always gets you the result you want. If you are born with the "weak" genes that don't adapt well to the environment then you perish without reproducing. That's what natural selection is.
@@dreyri2736 oh wow, thanks smartass
"Yes, I can get to compare myself to Batman because its my channel" is the last thing I expected to hear today and is unintentionally hilarious, thank you sisyphus 55
It is intentionally hilarious.
It is intentionally hilarious
It is comedically precarious.
@@flowgangsemaudamartoz7062 thank you
Ok but why did you have to spoil it tho
I think an important thing to note on this topic is that getting out of the manosphere and away from the antisocial traits it glorifies does not make you feel better either. You may feel just as depressed, anxious, and alone as you felt while in that culture, probably more so, since you lose that artificial sense of purpose. I think sisyphus creates this image that being inside the manosphere leads to a large but empty life, and being outside it grants peace and happiness, and contentment. You won't suddenly find love, acceptance, or a new sense of purpose by rejecting these ideals. You should absolutely do it, but it's by no means a fix for the underlying issues, it's just the first step.
Right, I think things like the "manosphere" is similar to Alcoholics Anonymous. It can help some people. It saves some peoples lives. A.A. saved my life to be honest with you. But after awhile it becomes something different that its original purpose.
You can become addicted to it. What you become addicted to is the social factor. You get a sense of reward by being apart of the group. People in the manosphere will lie constantly because they just want to be apart of something. These are the people who are usually borderline violent in the things that they say on forums and such. Its like people who don't know how to fit in and don't know that it is crazy to say things like that all getting together and saying crazy things.
The problem is that some of these kids take this VERY seriously. They are part of this group now that is bigger than them after all.. and this is what these guys are all doing.. It's like the cult that they make in fightclub. It grows bigger and more fucked up as things go along. All these men are pissed off and really now they are bound together by their anger and hate and their utter feelings of pain and loneliness they feel. The rejection they feel becomes extremely deep. They no loonger even want to solve their own problem... They just want to be a louder and more influential member of the group. They want to say things that other people in the group might admire.
All of this leads to a HUGE downward spiral with none of these dudes getting what they want. Which is probably either sex, or a loving relationship. Ideally both I would imagine. They are totally fucking themselves. Drowning in their own anger and pain.
If that becomes your whole world or a large part of it and you suddenly leave it then you will probably go through withdrawals. The whole thing is your addiction.
This^
Yeah it's necessary but not sufficient
This is a brilliant addition
The main problem is that there is no alternative though. Young men turn to the manosphere because its the only thing out there that acknowledges the reality of what dating is ACTUALLY like for young men, as opposed to the blue-pill where it lies to young men about "just be nice and buy her flowers and she will like you".
I Loved Your bit about Darwin in the epilogue. Yes he did infer there is a “survival of the fittest” in his Natural Selection Theory but many cut it off at “fittest” when in reality he said something closer to “Survival of the fittest to adapt.” The world and it’s nature are ever changing. To want to be the same forever is truly a fool’s task
It is correctly stated as "survival of the fittest", but the word "fittest" itself is what's often misinterpreted. Fitness is not just a physical attribute, it's a quantitative measurement of the likelihood of survival/reproduction - taking into account both individual attributes and the state of the surrounding environment. So it's not just a measurement of an organism's abilities, but rather the "personal usefulness" of those abilities in the context of it's surroundings.
Except for horseshoe crabs, those bois haven't had to change in the last 480 million years, they're perfect the way the are ❤️
Thanks for telling us what Darwin said without actually saying anything he said
But the modern world has given way to much significance to the changing aspect and lost its grasp on the human fundamentals
@@cedar4539 that's wrong. The vast majority of people are not seeking self-actualization, that's actually a very rare thing throughout human history. There have allways been scholars, be it for the spiritual, mental or physical. The modern insistence on a lack of any imperative given out by those people is a social disease. If you belive yourself to be capable to seek your own path go ahead but do not deprive the less fortunate from a guiding light.
Growing up one of the many ideals of masculinity was that men could fix and build things with tools. If you watch a lot of DIY youtubers those guys seem a lot more secure in their masculinity than most guys in the alpha-sphere. Their masculinity comes a lot less from external sources.
yeah its the difference between looking at a channel solely abt how to get into better shape and/or bodybuilding. and one that teaches you how to be more of a man through working out. one of them wants to be better, one wants the world to know they are better
@@amb600cd0 modern bodybuilding has been bastardised. It used to be about so much more.
That desire you spoke at the beggining. Tis the longing for connection and to be part of a conscious humanity. Right now we are part of a self murdering humanity based on lies and working towards death. Almost forgotten by yhe time the ending rolls in, there are no wrong ways to individually "be" but there's plenty of responsibility we have been collectively avoiding. The burden of so many, the banality of evil.
@@absolutewanker9384 I agree and disagree. While the general bodybuilder is represented by the phony fake natural instagram influencer that is more concerned with shoveling lies in the form of a preworkout supplement they claim got them to their natural figure there are also really amazing people in the space still. A lot more people being open about testosterone usage and a significant support toward more accessibility to newcomers has I think improved the scene immensely. The machismo energy of comparative size is less than what I think it used to be with fantastic role models like Chris Bumstead kind of leading the scene.
If the ladies don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy.
Autumn Leaves is the perfect outro for this video. Every time I hear this iconic melody I gaze into my incompleteness and mortality while embracing it with acceptance, that this doesnt need to be so bad at all. Your video helped me verbalizing this message I just feel hearing this beloved jazz tune.
@Steve L. Too bad so many generations drift further and further away from jazz. Even the young practitioners approach it as a thing of more rigor than freedom. And maybe that’s a better language for our time. But we can still learn much from times past.
sounds like one of those pre-sets on $100. keyboards, like greensleeves
btw, to hear my original composition, calling god, play amazing grace on telephone setting
@@intellectually_lazycomedically terrible
Respect for putting together this comprehensive thread on a topic that's honestly both always relevant but past its topicalness
yes
It isn't passed the topic when men still cannot maintain a relationship.
@@measlesplease1266 True. There's so much to fix.
@@measlesplease1266 no, modern western women just aren't worth the relationship anymore.
I disagree with the assertion this content is ever, "past its topicalness," if what you intend to convey was this subject is no longer, "... of immediate relevance, interest, or importance owing to its relation to current events;" (Google) because we have not reached a moment as a world, a society or even a given culture in which this is not an on going issue, not just for men, but for people at large. Very few people truly understand, let alone embrace, the concept of "enough."
You know the Sisyphus video is getting real when Autumn Leaves starts playing.
I've never been so happy to have my whole identity kicked in the teeth! This was painful, but moving and somewhat liberating. Thank you!
My name is also Alex and I agree 👍
You think it helped that he speaks from experience?
To me, that really strengthened his story. And it is something I rarely see in videos trying to tackle things like this.
@@Quadr44t Yes! He doesn't seem to shame or judge anyone for going through what he's been through. He shows that this is a journey all men must go through to some degree and there are no perfect answers. I think becoming a truly "good man" is much more difficult than it seems - a "sisyphean" task, if you will.
He show's that he's struggling through that journey at least as much as everyone else is. It's extremely admirable.
@@alexnelson7258 yeah that was really refreshing to me. Though I never really got into the alpha male thing myself (probably because I joined a student association where everyone was welcome non-student too. So I interacted with people of all kinds on a regular basis), it seems like most that cover the problems with this ideology are very ridiculing and look down from their high horse basically. Which does more harm than good imo. Who is going to listen to people that actively ridicule their beliefs.
And you are absolutely right, I have struggled with this too. But i was lucky to find myself in a very diverse environment at a relatively young age (18 I think, when i started college. In 2010 at least so quite a while back).
So I very much applaud this video content!
@@Quadr44t I was never actually into the alpha male persona per se. You could even say I looked down on it. I've just always wanted to have tons of money and a rocking 6-pack and get laid all the time. The results have been disappointing for all three. My masculinity has always been on the fragile side.
I've watched many videos on the manosphere over the past few months, but this one is probably the most comprehensive and interesting to view through a philosophical lens. as always I found your video empathetic and thoughtful :) thanks
While this is a great deconstruction and analysis of masculine identity, I feel like it could largely be applied to identity as a whole. Any form of identity requiring validation or confirmation will necessarily become enslaved to others. There will always be those thinking what it should or shouldn't consist of, and where it's value ought be on the social ladder. Its as boundless as humans are opinionated. And if you wish to fight for it, prepare for a battle without end.
Whether it be gendered, occupational, educational, hierarchical or sexual, the impersonal identities requiring validation and confirmation will never be free of problems that can't be solved. The true self, the authentic self, has no labels.
Well said
There is no self. There are self-states. Liquidity. Not immutability.
Yes. I knew from a young age that I wasn’t straight, but a label like “lesbian” or “bisexual” always seemed so limited, inaccurate, and fuels division and hierarchy. So I went with the label that effectively isn’t one, and requires little explanation: pansexual. There are no bounds to who I could possibly be attracted to. Anyone anywhere, if hot, is hot. Crucially, it doesn’t give people room to question the decisions that I make about my life, because “pan” is effectively a nonlabel that just says “I’ll like who I like.”
My identity is Shaun; Shaun is who I am. Anything I do is a Shaun thing to do, because Shaun is doing it; Anything I want is a Shaun thing to desire, because Shaun is desiring it. I don't have issues with striving towards an identity because I'm already inhabiting it. I require no validation or confirmation, I know that I'm me and that's all I need to be. Other people might think I'm not me, but that's their issue. Whether they believe I'm me or not, I remain.
none of what you said is true.
not saying this is you,but weak people who are envious of others achievements will always try to find a way to get rid of that envy. they'll tell you to turn the other cheek when somebody slaps you, don't boast, don't be proud of your achievements, being successful is actually a weakness, and being a "kind"(which isn't really kindness, more likely harmlessness and weakness) is a virtue, being weak is actually strength and acknowledging your strength is weakness.
to refute your argument about identites that need validation being enslaved, i'll say this:
people who get validated aren't slaves, because people who validate have no other choice BUT to validate. you don't get to choose who you love,or who you like. you don't get to control your emotions or beliefs, if somebody is worth something, you have no other choice BUT to validate them, therefore they aren't your slaves,but your role-models instead. nobody gets to decide where you are on the dominace hyerarchy, hyerarchies are objective and individual perceptions don't affect where you stand. you stand where you stand and that's all you are.
authentic self is only good if it stands high on the hyerarchy, and attaching different labels on it isn't gonna change anything. authentic self is useless if it doesn't stand high on they hyerarchy. people can authentically be freaking losers, this isn't good for them and it shouldn't be celebrated just beccause it's authentic. you can authentically be living in your mom's basement in your 30's and celebrating something like this is completely nonsensical.
It's been almost a year since I had a sudden and painful realization that what I was chasing was harming myself and those around me. I'm still trying to figure out what I am, and my self esteem has suffered for it. This video makes me feel recognized, and I appreciate you for putting it out.
I despise the idea of a absolute value of a man or a woman. YOU have 80 or so years on this planet , you won’t be remembered in 160 or so years (generally speaking) why let people tell you how to live when you can make your own meaning?
very good, I Agree
How is it then that some men are in fact remembered more 160 years after their death? It was through the process of attempting to become known after their death that they increased their personal value. They grew as person. Therefore stop coping, start growing.
@ increased what? Lol, Ted Bundy will be remembered in 160 years. Being famous doesn't make you valuable or good.
@@dannyarcher438 yeah well I think he meant for u to aspire to be like people more akin to Martin Luther King and what have you, not serial killers. The difference between famous and infamous.
@@ismailomar1068 Kim Kardashian is more famous than Dr King right now. The "famous system" he presents is a terrible philosophy to live by.
Ever since the OliSUNvia collab, I hoped that F.D. Signifier would be here one day.
That day has come, and it is glorious.
Being a real man is to stop caring about what being a man is, you're a person just try living a wholesome life. Love y'all
@haomavarga that is the real question
That and not being a pussy is important.
Wholesomeness is no more secure a mooring than the idea of masculinity.
Thats foolish
@haomavarga it’s whatever you decide it to be. Live by your own moral code and ideals. Not what someone else dictates. Even you want to be super “masculine” than do it. If you want to paint your nails cuz you like it then do it. Basically live the way you like
"Concepts are a limited guideline to understand the world" is something I've been trying to put into words for so long.
Fantastic video. I ended up on a very similar journey, falling into the manosphere and eventually finding my way out with the help of some good influences, both men and women. I especially like the quote by Bell Hooks: “To know love, men must be willing to let go of the need to dominate.” I haven’t just learned this, I have lived this. I have much more fulfilling relationships now because I have learned to find an understanding of masculinity that is fundamentally built on connection rather than subjugation.
You can never let go off the need to dominate that’s when you die as a men
@@ruthless7879 to what end and for what purpose?
Reminder that some who “die as a man” are “reborn as a man” too. When one is vague & mystical about this stuff then there’s lots of ways for the story of manhood to continue in cool ways too often ignored by people who don’t really exercise their imagination on the subject.
That sounds super gay
@@ruthless7879 don't worry dude you'll get there.
In my friend group, the ones that got hooked the most with the weird misogynistic evo-psych-ish rethoric were the ones of us that didn't have much interests. When you are a dude bad at sports teachers kind of perceive you as smart/intellectually inclined by default, and it becomes part of your personality (and ego). It was rough growing up and being academically surpassed by mostly women, so probably we were searching for a rationale of why they were getting better results than us if we were, supposedly, the smart ones. Red pill, manosphere content was just that.
Even though I'm ashamed of the things I thought (and did) back then, now I realize that it was a way for us to cope with our own mediocrity. I don't know how to word it but we didn't necessarily want to be shitty to women, but to feel good without having any merits. Growing up and pursuing my passions helped me let go of that bitterness.
Growing up is apart of life, we love to see it
Good on you for recognizing this. Have a good day/night.
Well, here's another thing to learn: not all people are like you, not all people have the same responses to the same problems, and, even more important-not all people derive the same lesson from, for example, Jordan Peterson's lectures. When you were using such content as a shield, others, me included, used it to turn their life's around.
Talk more to the people that aren't like you. You need to learn.
@@uwontrememberthis well, i have yet to know someone that grew as a person from listening to a guy that thinks that ancient civilizations knew about the structure of dna just because they drew spirals. You are right, maybe a I haven't knew enough people.
Growing up is the answer to a lot of this. Unfortunately, a lot of online dialogue is being driven by people that haven't done it yet.
Beautiful analysis of masculinity. Helps with understanding the bizarre "alpha-chad" culture shift we find ourselves in. Thank you Sisyphus. Very insightful. You inspire me to do better.
Remember, it’s ok to be weak and achieve nothing in life!
@@absolutewanker9384 Who the F wants to remember that?
@@absolutewanker9384 No it is not! But becoming a bitter a$$hole and a self proclaimed alpha is also stupid.
@@absolutewanker9384 is that how you interpreted this? How would you define weakness? And what exactly counts as an achievement? What are we supposed to achieve?
@@absolutewanker9384 nobody said that it's about achieving things that make you happier
Thank you for your work. This provided a lot of understanding and context for a lot of the things I have been going through recently, dealing with identity crisis for most of my life and feeling myself being swayed to extremes. Buddhism helps me the most in staying centred, remembering to keep finding the middle way. 🙏
I have found all i needed in martial arts interestingly. It gave me brutal strength, realistic confidence while it cultivated and put in place my ego. That in synthesis with my intellectual needs, reading, philosophy, gave me holistic reflexion i needed.
Could you recommend a worthy book from the top of your head? I want to read something but can't choose, and don't know where to start
@@deekay6474 read as much as possible of anything that you find stimulating
Hell yea bro!
actual martial arts is probably the best way to somewhat satisfy your identity as a man without actually hurting others, you let your aggression and dominance out, not through putting others down, but only through lifting yourself up, while also building self esteem and discipline, I really recomend any men, and in fact, any gender, to try martial arts, its really life changing being able to take out all your frustrations on a piece of rubber while practicing self-discipline
Wow. Just... wow. As someone who troughout the pandemic has been able diverge away from pre-existing gender norms to embrace their individuality, this video is everything I would've needed and touches on every single reflection I have had in the past 3 years. I can only hope it goes to help others.
Growing up I found it to be quite underwhelming when I did actually reach the ideals of masculinity, but depressing and worrying whenever I couldn't. There was an asymmetry and emptiness to it all. I think that led to me eventually understanding the fact of masculinity being nothing more social construction, which was a scary idea but eventually became immensely comforting. something I could critique and choose to listen to or ignore. After that you gain the freedom to be a 'man' in whatever way you want, which I think leads to an authenticity that just makes life easier and better. I used to feel insecure about the 'feminine' aspects of my personality but now I feel most proud of them and happy to have them.
In the coming times of privation and crisis you will see that masculinity is not a construct. It is something needed to survive. If a barbarian robber has a knife to your throat you won't be thinking about deconstructing his masculinity.
Yeah, I always viewed masculinity as embracing who you are and doing whats right for the ones you love. But, I think that definition depends on your role model, as many people exemplify. So, I'd like to thank my dad for being a good role model and god for letting me be so lucky.
Social construction?
Are the behavioural/psychological effects of testosterone socially constructed? If it's socially constructed, why do more egalitarian countries exhibit greater differences in personality between genders?
@@immanuelcunt7296 you are still making your point based on the idea that gender expression is a social construction if it can vary across cultures. It's like you didn't understand anything discussed in the video
@@immanuelcunt7296 Looks like he's saying that the concept/ideal of masculinity is a social construct, not that a man can't be naturally masculine
Liked and agree with most of this - except the comparison that most figures in the "manosphere" would say that the world is to blame for you being a loser and that you connect this idea to Jordan Peterson. My takeaway from jordan peterson was always the opposite, that there's nobody to blame but yourself, which is empowering because it tries to drive home the idea that you should just get up and actively work to get your life in order, rather than blame it on whoever it is that you'd otherwise blame. Impressive video though, enjoyed this a lot!
Agreed that’s the takeaway I get from Peterson - except he does acknowledge that there is of course the degree to which you had setbacks in life. But not that you can do anything about what is by definition out of your control.
why do you comment on a music labels channel? lol
@@nachfullbarertrank5230 Idk, I rarely even respond to comments. This one just resonated because I was thinking quite a similar thing while watching and it disturbed me how little explanation there often was in support of statements in the vid. How you can prescribe to Jordan Peterson the idea that the world is the way it is because of "wokes" or something is heavy r-worded.
Great video! I am a middle aged guy with ASD, and have always been faced with the usual animosity you could expect a quiet, bookworm type to be forced to contend with. Finally, I have learned to follow my own path regardless of what others think and have all but shed these archaic concepts of what a "man should be" and what "a real woman" is.
Serious comment: I really don't like the underlying assumption that men's problems aren't "real" in the sense that other groups' problems are. Like, when we talk about men exhibiting aggrieved entitlement, we're saying very explicitly that men do not deserve the improvements in quality of life that they're looking for. What kind of person would look a lonely, financially destitute person in the eye and say to them, "You do not deserve the success you're looking for"? Is this how we want to be engaging with our fellow human beings?
i find that they meant that their problems come from more personality causes. like a bad upbringing and opposed to systematic oppression. everyone deserves more quality of life, but some people trip over their shoelaces far more than others. and yet still refuse to tie them.
These people aren’t liberal, they view everything in terms of group dynamics. If a man has problems, he’ll get treated as the rest of his ‘oppressive’ group identity. This is why some men gravitate to the horrible redpill shit since it’s a classic outgroup attack response.
That's because they say they're entitled to being loved by having a gf, no one is entitled to being loved.
Other than than that issue i don't know what you mean by aggrieved entitlement.
Agreed. That was the only part of this video which was both pervasive and which I don't agree with. The struggles of the straight-white young man are fundamentally viewed in a different light than those of minority groups. It is entitlement rather than healthy aspiration, toxic aggression rather than rightful protest. Ironically in the video it is emphasized that empathy and compassion are the best tools in decreasing in-group/out-group hostility. Yet it is so notoriously difficult to extend this compassion to men in this category.
It is not a wonder to me that so many young men find solace in the words of public figures like Jordan Peterson. The whole world seemingly regards your disadvantages as irrelevant, at best, and deserved or earned, at worst. For naught but being born straight and/or white, you are either to sacrifice your self-worth on the altar of social justice, or clamor in the opposite direction, rooting your identity as deeply as possible in traditional (and toxic) masculine stereotypes.
Young men hear what they _shouldn't_ be so often, yet are never given hints as to what they _should_ be. The manosphere/alpha male/redpill communities therefore have an advantage because they offer a path, providing rigid guidance rather than arbitrary admonishments. Young men need good role models, not lectures on the patriarchy that they had no choice of participation in.
@@emiliosalazar9962 i'm not making a comparison, women also feel entitled to stuff but criticising those entitlements is good, we shouldn't make excuses for these behaviours regardless of gender.
For a long time, I couldn't not put it, this feeling you described into words.
Thank you, for helping me give words to what I have been going through for the last 3 years.
May everyone here find the answers they are looking for.
As I’d probably label myself a fairly feminine guy who lives in Scotland I certainly didn’t realise the absolute depths that this whole ‘manosphere’ goes it’s wild. I’m a dad and certainly never required any overt masculinity myself when it come to self worth or meeting women but I can appreciate I’m a single person in that sense. But in my work life I have interacted with some young boys/men who seem to fit this bill and it always confused me why they cared so much about others perception and let it drive there behaviour. Quite aware of incel types and there whole thing but it’s very interesting getting such insight and listening how you’ve made such changes in your life, you should be proud of your introspection and I really hope this helps some others out that need it. Much love my guy, newcomer but I’ll stick around.
Also if any young men see this which they might not I’d implore you to seek something you really care about as an individual, I’ve found love in many people and different passions that honestly make each day worth living that don’t conform to any ridged ideals. You’ll find your own happiness when you start working out who you are, not how you are perceived.
There is no 'you' independently. 'you' are 'you' when you are perceived.
So as i see it -
Boys are told to be strong, to stop crying, to not look back and to not rely on others and if they dont do that then other people, mostly men, will see them as weak and will abuse them.
Musculinity represents fear of community and love for self.
On the other hand, girls are told to be kind, expressive, thoughtful of others, sometimes even to be subserviant, etc. and if they dont do that then they will be forgotten, forever alone and sad.
Femininity represents fear of self and love for community.
Your transitioning screens between chapters are great. The calm clips and music.
Those are clips from the documentaries Jacques Costeau made with his crew about the marine world, highly recommended
@@Daniel-dz2ie thanks
Between this and bell hooks video, I am now a fan of your work. This video explained the allure of the Manosphere in an elegant, concise and entertaining way. Bravo!
My grandfather wasn't rich, in fact, by any modern metric he was poor. He did however build his house and farm and raise 6 kids later resulting in many grandchildren. He was loved and respected by all. He transferred his values to his children. Divorce, cheating, abuse, drunkenness were foreign concepts to him that were as possible as jumping off a bridge, in that, sure you could. He embodied the "priest, prophet, and king" model of what a man should be even if im not sure he ever heard of it per se.
Back in our grandfather's times, standards for men were basically "don't be obese or a drunkard and have a job". Houses costed pennies compared to what they cost today. Nowadays you better be a CEO or a doctor earning six figures with a ripped physique and a millionaire to afford a one-bedroom dingy apartment in a run-down neighborhood.
Your channel has helped me a lot over the past couple of years, to reflect, serving as a reminder to listen to people around me and to try to be more understanding.
this video is a great reflection of the manosphere. i hope the figures in the community start a discussion about this video
Agree
read that as "I hope the fungus in the community start a discussion about this video"
I too hope for this but am doubtful it will come, especially via the figureheads of the movement. Though I do hope this will reach those on the periphery, the audiences and smaller creators, and engender evaluation.
They are too dumb
@@shanefoster2132 Recently just left the movement, and from what I can tell it's almost dead. Andrew Tate will still be here, no doubt, but anything without his level of fame is gone. I used to consume all this "Reject Modernity" shit, and from cleaning up my recommendations, it was a flash in the pan. From 300k views in a week to barely scratching 10k. The discussion will never come, or if it does nobody will hear it. Ultimately, by the end of the year the last idiots screaming about this shit will move on or go underground.
Thank you for making this video, its insightful in looking at this phenomenon, but i do feel in this video that sometimes the extremes of “manosphere” is taken as the common principles of it. Being loving & caring is also a part of mascuinity, increasing abilities of self through learning new skills and exploring the world can, and is considered as masculinity. From a personal experience, the red pill community is self growth, physical fitness, sitting down in the morning at the desk and jotting down goals to accomplish and staying disciplined to finish the goals. Being a follower of the red pill community does not always mean dreaming of a guy with a expensive watch or a luxury car, but enjoying the finer things in life - family, friendship and community and being ambitious in the things an individual loves to do. It does not include hating on things - being the angry young man(hilarious term tho it may be😂). But i really do appreciate the making of the video as it allows discussions like this and makes people think and question themselves and their ideologies. Those who sexualise women can go fuck themselves.
As someone who has digested the whole red pill and seen past it to make society better than the red pill ever could, I think that this is a great video
@Raul Deen The redpill sells itself and believes that it is the _ultimate reality._ Adherents would laugh if you claimed to see behind it…but perhaps complacently…
i am literally at 1:01 in the video and i'm gonna go* on a bike ride and listen to this. Such a fan of your channel really inspires me to be a more expressive creative. thanks
Dude, don't comment and drive...
I think you misinterpreted
The effort you put in this video is amazing. Thank you for keeping the content rich with sources and also your personal insight and interpretation. Beautiful stuff man 👍
Hey, just wanted to say I really have been enjoying your videos lately, mainly while I draw, and not really for any particular interest in a topic, but for your pacing and calmness, I find in your voice and the effort in each chosen subject. so thank you for putting time into these scripts and videos. I needed a break from the intense speed everything been going at lately, it's helped slow things down for a bit now.
what a STEP UP from 10 min videos to full fledged mini documental! Have been following your channel for years and will keep on doing it! Love to see your evolution ;)
your channel is the reason why i chose to take a philosophy class in school. however these videos did not take into account how much people will talk down to you in a philosophy class! either way, i’m excited to learn more about philosophy in a formal education setting while still watching your channel in my free time :) hope my brain doesn’t overload
Forgive me if I am mistaken but you.... You chose philosophy? 🗿.
Like a college degree? Or just in school? Sounds dope mate
I'm curious to know your experience with being talked down to in philosophy, if you're interested in sharing.
philosophy is on par with psychology for being the class for people too stupid to do biology which is the most basic science class. I am sorry but I have to make fun of you for picking such a dumb subject.
@@romanianturk2101 Is their somthing wrong with taking it? I have considered it as my minor but its between that or theatre.
Im returning to this video again. I've used it alot and i send it to women to help them understand men.
The problem of hating women is giant today, also these ideals feed unjustice with unjust accountability.
I wholeheartedly deem this video a masterpiece. It is just so filled with sympathi. Thank you for this channel, my favourite one on youtube 👏👏🙌
Thank you for this video. The whole 'rejecting or accepting orders is alike because of the one giving the orders' I've never really thought about before. And that outside pressures should not be a large factor in my life for my decisions.
I should choose to make my own decisions based off what I want and not what others expect of me. I can't believe it's taken me this long to realise and internalise this.
It’s gonna sound weird, but as a cis woman, I almost feel like this is as important for us to watch as it is for cis men. It’s a reminder that, as a more or less suppressed group, we can’t forget that dehumanisation goes both ways. We tend to demonise the concept of the white man, but of course that also means that young boys and men today feel like they don’t deserve to have any kind of pride in their own existence. So it’s no wonder some of them become jaded and bitter about, well, everything. There’s nothing wrong with feeling happy to be a guy or being masculine. The issue is when those traits are either framed as superior or as an excuse to hurt others. Still, no red-pilled guy is ever going to listen to our side of the argument, if they know they’re being demonised and looked down upon. If we want to be humanised by them, we should do the same back, otherwise we’re no better than those that have become so stuck in their toxic world view that they refuse to get out of the muck and have a constructive debate!
That being said, I can see how those podcasts could be a good thing, if they focused on healthy masculinity, like learning to be self-sufficient, taking charge of your own life and working to become healthier both mentally and physically. But those insane, rigid and often contradictory stereotypes that are being pushed onto the listeners, aren’t healthy. They discourage such basic things as sleeping or relaxing. They claim that any emotion that is not anger is bad, and that being happy isn’t even possible for a man, because all a man must know is pain and suffering, or he is weak. That’s the most horrific “advice” possible! I just wish it could’ve stuck with “Clean your room, take a nice shower and take a little walk once in a while. It’s good for you, and people around you will be able to sense that you’re working on yourself in a positive way.”
That's how it always is, no? Any group that that caters to an identity group and tells them that the world treats them unfairly - as true as it might be - will inevitably end up attracting people who hate out-groups and start pushing insane stuff. Are redpillers and feminists, white and black supremacists, nazis and communists, etc. all that different?
What a sensible comment. I'm glad I kept scrolling.
I feel like I can see the world so much more clearly after watching your videos. I'm so happy to grow up with this in my life
you should probably write a book about this, you have enough material to make something really complete and inspiring
I really admire how you can handle such polarizing and difficult topics so calmly.
Thank God this video exists and its very complete. This Is such a good start for self education about societal issues without resorting to the stereotypes that would usually harm the discourse
As long as men outsource their own fulfilment, joy, motivation and contentment they will cling and attach to "in groups". Doesn't matter if you are straight, gay, bi, trans, left, right or whatever. Awakened masculine energy does not need validation. A man does what he is called to do. He is who he is without worrying about appearance or opinion of others. An awakened masculine energy is a creator, protector, builder and leader. Everything else is just attachment. Boys crying over perceived issues or lack of validation. These discussions get one thing right. Man up and be yourself. Don't let anyone define who you should be but don't angrily project onto others who they should be either. Social programming wants you to compete and be divided. So called male gurus thrive and profit from your doubt in being yourself and seek to mold you in the way that will aid them or validate them. You are all you need men. Money, women, muscles, cars, prestige and so forth are nothing but distraction to your own journey to self-actualization. Go beyond the bias and comfort of familiar views. Your role as men is to protect, build, create but also to love, feel, imagine and see. No awakened man worries about other men or competes with them. He only competes and masters himself. Stop seeking validation and fulfilment outside yourself. You are all you need. Everything else is just bonus. Be blessed brothers.
I wish more people told that to men! 'You are all you need', perfectly said and addresses the root
I think this is one of your best and most important videos you've made
Hard agree
As a transwoman, it's interesting to hear about the the specific kinds of insecurities that former manosphere folks have. Thank you for sharing, I think I understand it now! Also, cheers for not skirting around relevant trans issues, it's refreshing to see cis folks willing to engage in parts of the conversation that may be uncomfortable for some :)
Fascism derives from insecuritys of men
HOLY SHIT! This is my absolute favorite video you have ever done. This may be the best video on youtube period (at least as far as I have seen). Bravo.
I’m also very happy that you’re looking into and applying Buddhist practice. I cannot tell you how incredible and fulfilling the Dharma is…as you have now found/are now finding out-just Bravo.
Also: I love the oceanographer motif. Makes me think of The Life Aquatic in the best way.
Started watching in 2017 but haven’t commented much, figured this would be a good time to. Thanks for all the content you’ve made over the years, your journey has influenced mine and I think it has been for the best. If the manosphere happened when I was in middle school I can absolutely imagine falling down that path. Your channel provided a similar but more positive fulfillment. Keep up the work and I dedicate this comment to the a l g o r i t h m.
this whole space on youtube is so full of reddit energy
This is the first time seen one of his videos and I kinda like it, it's quite soothing and his voice with the music just combined so well
This video is so thoughtful. It brings so many ideas to mind. It’s worth watching it multiple times I think.
Well constructed, and well deconstructed. As an individual born under the terrible curse of being a "white male" who has become rather embroiled in the manosphere in the last year, and who a few short years ago was able to overcome C-PTSD through insights given by Dr Peterson's lectures, I must say that I have not encountered the 90% of the toxicity referred to in this video.
That being said, I've always had a strong intuition. I follow my heart and it has never led me astray. I avoid toxic people and ideologies as much as I am able to, with all my limited knowledge and biases.
I know well of the human capacity for evil. I've encountered it first hand, secondhand, and third.
I know the toxicity you speak of exists. I've seen it too. But not to the rampant degree that seems implied by your video.
It does seem there is odd propensity to place all the world's problems at the feet of masculine men.
Why is that, I wonder?
Perhaps I am blind to it all, unable to see past the hair on my chin, and unable to smell the corruption through my own sweaty musk.
As I said, a well constructed video.
But I still don't see evidence that *masculinity*, in and of itself, is a problem in the world.
I think more so, that the male capacity for evil is more well defined, vivid, and BOLD than the female's.
In my estimation, what needs to be attended to, is the causes, the factors that push a man, or anyone else for that matter, to commit evil deeds, as opposed to loving ones.
Please, leave a comment below mine. I am terribly interested to hear what you(who has bothered to read thus far) have to say.
I think my input of experiences might be beneficial to you in understanding the presence of some of the things mentioned in this video.
Back around when I was in middle school, I had a very large amount of trouble regarding my identity and being perceived as a man. When I looked for answers online I came across the very early stages of the current day manosphere. Though I didn't personally have an experience with being dehumanized regarding wanting to present as a masculine person in my American conservative suburb, I can say I definitely did have the experience mentioned at 10:50. This happened to such an extent even that almost every video recommended to me on TH-cam was compilations with titles resembling "SJW cringe compilation ep. x" that meant to portray people with other beliefs, including ones on gender, as if they were zoo exhibits meant to be laughed at for their primitiveness. What I was in is now referred to as the alt right media pipeline, and in my experience the entire reasoning for those to exist.
By the start of my time at high school, I had for the most part stopped watching that type of content and I had also transferred schools to one with much less of conservative values echo chamber and thus actually had a student population where some students actually were open about not being on the gender binary I had ingrained into me at the time; at the very start, I still held those values close and it took one of my close friends at the time to come out themselves for me to seriously consider if my dehumanization of transgender people was right. With time my entire viewpoint changed, but that change made me undergo some self introspection of my own. I had determined that my struggle in the first place during middle school in regards to not feeling enough like a man had more to do with me actually not being a part of the gender binary I was so sure existed. In the following years I have become more open in regards to my gender identity, and in doing so I have in turn met people who did come to me solely to say I'm crazy to not say I'm a man and other hateful words. The culture that I used previously to seek help for my qualms about my identity has now turned to active hate towards me in what I now feel is the right thing for me.
Now I understand that my experience is very different from what you have had in regards to the manosphere, and that's actually what prompted me to put my experience out there. While it seems like you have been able to find comfort in some words from Jordan peterson (I'd like to point out that I think his stuff prior to him gaining notreriety is actually good advice and saying this isn't a diss towards someone you were able to gain help from), the manosphere does have a thriving culture that is based off of hate and actively dehumanizing people which I now recognize I actively partook in when I was younger. And I don't think I would have been able to recognize that I did indeed do this without experiencing it myself after I finally gained an understanding that I wasn't on the gender binary.
Now I'm already aware that my comment won't become a eureka moment in regards to your beliefs or anyone else who decides to read this, but I hope that my perspective will be able to help someone on a journey to be able to recognise some beliefs that might make people do what I regret having done in middle school. I also know that a lot of people who are transgender tend to have little patience towards people invested into the manosphere (which I assume to be a defense against harassment from experiences with extreme views, sometimes to the extent of death threats for some of my peers), but I ask that if you end up interacting with a trans person, ask if they are comfortable talking about their personal experience, I know that if I had this advice back in middle school I would have been able to enjoy a much larger amount of my childhood. I hope that sharing my perspective might be of some significance to you (especially since I got a little carried away in how much I wrote).
Lastly, I apologise if this was poorly written, I intended on sleeping before I decided to start writing this so I already know this isn't my best work. I'm open to sharing some more of my experiences if you're interested.
Probably one of the best videos I have ever watched. Well organized and well done. You critiqued masculinity in a way that anyone can accept. And then beautifully wrapped it all up with a great epilogue. Well done
I'm a woman and weirdly enough since a very young age I was always chasing after being masculine because my self-worth was put on the boys that didn't accept me as one of them because I was female
Over the years I even questioned if there was something within me that transitioning may fix
And though I do think that what I felt was at least some kind of dysphoria, I quickly realized that if I were to be born a man initially, Id try to combat the gender norms by trying to be as feminine as possible, since it wasn't me who I hated, but the way people saw me based on my gender identity
Right now in my life, I guess I'm kind of on the non-binary spectrum? Not really? I don't really like labels, they can help you discover yourself but people get lost in them, your gender is a label in and of itself in which you get lost in
People are way too diverse to live in a society so desperate to organize itself with such one-sided ideas
Personally I believe that the world would be a better place if people treated each other as people
And it's okay if some of yourself fits into the labels and some doesn't
I myself have lived a big portion of my life in the "edge lord" phase, where my actions still depended on others expectations of me, I just tried to be the opposite of what I was told
I know better now and that is to just see yourself and other people as simply extremely diverse humans
You don't have to agree, just listen to each other
This has helped me immensely at understanding myself and I absolutely love this video and this channel
Don't know why I felt the need to share but it hit home so why not, maybe someone out there can relate :)
I do relate.
as a man, I relate.
I relate to this a lot!
As someone who feels practically the exact same way when growing up, it's wild to see someone else who has grown up in a very similar way and struggled the same, glad to know i'm not alone!
@@rionexteam87 Yupp, it is weird but I think it's much more common than it seems
Gender roles, expectations and labels are just not good for the mind
I'm glad you could relate and I'm not alone either :)
As a former manosphere individual, this video makes me feel so seem! Great job!
You will never be a woman
X Doubt
@@yellowcake3468A to believe
as a man who drives forklifts for a living and runs my femboy page in my spare time, thankyou for speaking for those in the middle ground. in a world of extreme opinions, thankyou for bringing levelheadedness to discuss this
Damn, non-binarism be damned, the femboy can work a forklift
You have my utmost respect
Ahaha that’s crazy man haha.
Insta tho? Asking for a friend
@@kauadesouza2978You'll be shocked to learn that there are _real women_ driving forklifts as well. So wholesome. ❤
This video brings me confusion, and that is always uncomfortable feeling, yet it makes desire to further discover and unveil the various paths I’ve taken over my life.
Not going to waste anyone's time by writing up a pages-long criticism of this video on TH-cam of all places, but between the constant invocation of the ultimately meaningless phrases "gender-identity" and "social constructivism", and the conflation of ideologies of people like Peterson with people like Tate (which is just uncharitable at the absolute best), the video mutates into precisely what it accuses white men of being overly sensitive about. A disparaging hit piece with the underlying premise that "white masculinity bad and power-hungry, literally _anything_ else good."
I also wouldn't normally say this here, but I'm black, and found this video to be of the essence of the very particular type of haughty condescension that only white liberals are capable of. The abandonment of traditional masculinity by society has a lot to do with the current state of destitution in the black American family, wherein two-thirds of homes are absent a father.
People like you are the modern philosophers, thanks for making these videos
I don't like the term manosphere tbh
Kinda has "mansplaining" vibes to it and implies that this is what men in 2022 are like, giving the equally toxic zoomer left a reason to think their own prejudices are valid
The way I understand it "manosphere" refers to internet content creators/gurus that push different "true" narratives on what a man should de do be self-actualized as a man in this world that is sooo "backwards" and far away from that truth. They might not say that outright and through some stats and cherry picked phenomena to back stuff up. But yeah, they're basically the men on the internet pushing their ideals of manhood and manliness, not every single man in 2022 or what men are now like, no, it just applies to those gurus and their ideas and communities.
Simply a masterpiece !
I think after being around women for most of my life, I’ve lost sight of what most men actually think and feel. And now I feel as both the punching bag for women as well as the example of “look at a non-toxic male!”. Something I’ve noticed is that in pursuit of trying to find find femininity, a lot of feminists will still say “screw all men”, and I’ve seen why they’ve come to this realization. The amount of times that they were harmed by men, someone they cared about was- and I’ve been on the receiving end as well for that (hence why I don’t really have many male friends. I’ve never been seen as “manly” enough I suppose)
But I think it’s unhealthy as well to just dismiss the cause of why men harm, why men feel isolated and why the divide between men and women only grows further and further- more hatred building up between both.
My goal this year is to make more male friends, to see if my theory is correct about how to combat this. My idea is that people need a healthy balance of masculinity and femininity- and not to disregard either. I’m a very feminine man but I lack confidence or the ability to stand up for myself.
I think the only way to stop us from eating each other alive is- like you said- through empathy. The willingness to open up with each other, to genuinely listen, and- this is key, to not compare who’s had it worse. Just present sides.
We’ve all been given a shitty hand when it comes to life. All of us, doesn’t matter what gender you are or what your sexuality might be, we were all fucked from the get go. If you were born in the late 90’s or early 2000’s, you’ve been told of all the ways the earth could end, how you were simultaneously supposed to solve it all while being given vague guidance of how to or NO guidance at all (from older generations that ignore the fact that they caused a lot of it or say “I’m sorry I can’t do much more to help..”), you’ve most likely received great trauma that’s either ignored or validated (and if it’s validated then you’ll see how there’s not much else to do about it) your dreams can either be dashed by the fact that people say you’ll never be able to get there, by your lack of ability or the fact that you made that dream possible and you’re still unhappy- AND on top of ALL of that- you’re seen as a monster for who you are by strangers or family. You’ve probably been given contradictory advice from so many different people that you don’t know what the hell to think anymore, what to feel. All the while being constantly reminded that in the end… the sun’s gonna blow up anyway.
No wonder so many people cling to finding purpose in groups. This world is an absolute nightmare where every glimmer of hope is stomped into oblivion… SO. The way I see it, we can either let ourselves EAT each other, or we can just listen. Go in with the idea of not saying “okay, I’m gonna base everything I know of you on how you look or your associations.” Believe it or not, humans do genuinely want to help each other out, and in dire situations we would be there for each other (of course some people would be dicks, people can be dicks already! Don’t add to the pile) go in with the idea of not CHANGING the opposing person, but just knowing who they are. What their deal is, what lead them to be who they are now. Be firm with your stances, but be willing to accept when you’re in the wrong (it’ll stop the other person from saying that you’re being unreasonable, because if you accept when you’re wrong THEY’LL be able to break down when they’re wrong as well, leading to more agreements. Not only recognizing that we’re not perfect, but ACCEPTING that we’ll be wrong is key.)
If you’re arguing a point, be respectful and STAY on the point. And more than anything, invite the person to be your friend. Either through games or a drink or anything, you don’t gotta like them, but seeing that person as human is the only way we’re getting out of this.
And that’s all I gotta say about it, I’m really sorry for rambling but I wanted to get this off my chest.
We’ve been through some absolute shit and we’re going through even more… so I genuinely hope you have a good day. Take care :)
I feel like you are 'attacking' a manosphere that is shown to the outside by the media and famous characters such as Andrew Tate. (I call it a character since the things he says in longer form content is way less extreme than what was shown in the short tiktok clips). And the messages that are shown on this cover of the manosphere are totally not like the current inside of the manosphere.
All of the channels I watch that have smaller audiences inside the manosphere just want men to better themselves in all ways of life to win over a woman, and not to be entitled to one.
I loved this topic and the bravery it took to say lots of those key points. I have struggled with masculinity conceptions as well, but I believed it was somewhat ironic hearing about the identity struggle as a white male. The race aspect does not bother me, but as a half Mexican half white American, I have struggled with not only that identity confidence crisis but with forms of passive aggressive discrimination, which can have a bigger impact on an individual and their relationship with their persona. I just believe that this is an important aspect of the discussion on masculinity and its struggles.
I am a woman and I genuinely enjoyed this video.Firstly it is so well articulated!I hope everyone watches this or tries to dive into this concept because it concerns our society so much and affects all of us regardless of gender.
I love how you talked about FD Signifier’s videos. You’re both some of my favorite creators, probably my two favorite video essayists ❤️👍
i kinda dont like him fd fellow
Thanks, Sysiphus. You're a real bro for providing this.
This is your best video dude! incredibly comprehensive, topical, easy to understand yet still teaching some very complex topics. Bravo! Hope to see more long form content like this in the future
Hope he’s fair to show that Peterson saying “if all the women are rejecting, it’s not them, it’s you” is a starkly different message than Tate saying to literally mistreat women.
Jordan Peterson also says some disgusting things about women
@@ethybubs even if you could take what he says out of context and in the most bad faith way, you couldn’t possibly make the argument he’s at the same level of Andrew Tate.
@@Trapping_ackbar7 up yours, woke moralist. we'll see who cancels who
@@Trapping_ackbar7 I feel no need to split hairs, they both encourage misogyny amongst young men.
@@ethybubs not really
God damn this was good, I couldn’t explain any of it better or know as much. Truly great content!
I want to say thank you for the video it was an enjoyable watch. I my self feel as though I am currently going through an identity crisis and honestly I'm not sure what to do. I mean I'm a year away from graduating college and possibly going to medical school and I feel happy or at least everyone says I should be happy and proud yet I feel like as though I am not enough. I feel insufficient as a man, a son, a brother, a friend, and a partner. I feel as though I'm free falling in infinite darkness and I just power through day by day telling myself the next day will be better, that I'll feel some satisfaction with my self. However, this never happens the cycle just repeats. No one has taught me how to find worth in this life and I am not sure if it is something I learn myself or if life will teach me that lesson eventually. I value the people around me and I do my best to not take anyone for granted. The reason I point this out is because the video gives clear indication as to what the traps of the said "manosphere" is and how it is to fall into those. Yet how does one currently suffering from a similar experience to yours find fulfillment? Because I can postulate to myself a variety of individual solutions that may potentially work, but I don't understand how to be a man when society either teaches you to hate women, and everyone else that some people in society decide should be under the prescribed ideal man. Or it teaches you to let go of the idea of masculinity in general. Neither of those seem correct to me in any sense. I don't believe anyone should have to be something predetermined by society or by other people. I believe it should be an individual action to find your own identity, but an identity that those not impose domination or hierarchy on everyone else. Is there some book or something I can do to discover my own identity?
Quick side note. In the epilogue you mention Charle's Darwin's hypothesis "Survival of the fittest" stating that organisms were flexible and could adapt to their ever changing environmental conditions. Generally this is a misconception. Organisms don't adapt, they experience mutations and if the mutations are favorable and allows the organism to survive longer, then that organism is considered fit. Fitness in Darwin's terms simply implies that an organism lives sufficiently long to produce offspring in a generally variable environment. A very good example that illustrates this idea is giraffes and leaves. Giraffes didn't evolve by growing their necks individually to be able to reach the leaves on a tree. Some giraffes had mutations that gave them a slightly longer neck which allowed them to eat some of the leaves on trees, these giraffes were more likely to live longer and pass on these traits.
Again, thank you for the video.
My general advice in life that I aspire to live by is just be kind for the sake of being kind, and to me, that's what "manly" is.
i find often when you remove the strange performance and hierarchical aspects of what bring a man should be, you just get the plans for what being a good person should be.
@K10 i thought i would kinda poking fun at the idea of "manly", yknow.
Phenomenal video essay! Thanks for putting it together. I know there are so many others like myself who need or will need to hear this. Definitely going to revisit this in the future to make sure I'm asking myself the right questions. Good stuff man:)
This video was amazing. Words cannot describe how much I appreciate videos like this. Keep up the good work.
hey man! This video is a great resource for finding reading materials on the subject and very well presented :)) I'm working on an article for a Scottish magazine on the same issue. I don't have as much room to discuss as you have put in this and I'm mainly going to focus on the pre-radicalization phase of the Manosphere, kind of the waterline of the iceberg. I want to look show people who might not be very aware of it what the surface of this area looks like and also what role algorithms and idolism plays in trapping people who may have originally been seeking entertainment in that ideological echo chamber. Thank you again for this video :))
I’m young and don’t truly know what to make of myself. I’ve subscribed to a minority of the ideas of the Mano sphere but a lot I haven’t and it’s for the better. It’s tough to know who to listen to because you get people who are trying to fill you with ideas for their own gain and people who genuinely believe they are helping because what worked for them must work for you, but end up doing damage. The masculine idea has helped me but I know it’s flawed like everything so I take it with a grain of salt. I’ve seen a lot in the comments(I can’t exactly remember if this was discussed in the video) about the idea of being who you are and authentic. While I think there is merit in this because trying to fit in is a constant uphill battle that will leave you upset and disappointed. But I feel like maybe a lot of people have an idea of what is authentically them but it isn’t and maybe if it is it’s more detrimental. If being a recluse is authentically you but you feel unhappier as a result, should you stick to it because it’s who you are or should you try to change who you are fundamentally to something ‘better’ which of course is subjective so I don’t really know. I can’t really put what I’m trying to say into words effectively and I believe I’ll be easily misunderstood. So I’m willing to try and clarify what I mean and discuss it if anyone is willing to. I have too many conflicting ideas and not enough ability to sort them into a cohesive argument. If that makes sense. I better get back to doing my math homework I’ve procrastinated too long.
That’s the thing with these types of groups. They use half truth to make yo think “huh, maybe they have a point with this one thing.”
the fastest way to know yourself is to experience life yourself even amidst failure, instead of accepting ideas not your own. The only difference between an adult and a gullible child is experience. With experience you will know what is your own "better".
I'm a girl, and I love your work. I shared this one on my socials and sent it to 2 friends. Your thinking/writing is well organized and sourced and refreshingly human. I even dig the stick figures 😊
Glad I subbed 🙂👍
This was so flipping well written it was beyond inspiring.
You and FD Signifier are so talented and smart - thank you for this.
I am a 42 yo black cis gendered woman from Bermuda. Bravo sir.
@guitarszen yet you felt the need to comment…
For me its never was about being masculine. It was about facing existence with all its hardships and not looking away, not numbing yourself with mindless entertaiment, killing your ego and admitting failings. Its about growing stronger, not coping. Because the pain...its not gonna go away, but as a human you can outgrow suffering. Hence if you are adult human being and you suffer, you probably deserve it. Instead of simply coping, conquer yourself, and by it conquer your own part of existence.
By the end it doesnt matter what have you achieved. Not everyone can be Napoleon. Its how you lived that counts. Be disciplined. Strive to be better. Don't let this world tear you apart.
'being masculine' is an ideal. And ideals give motivation. I'm not into this whole masculinity thing because I find it to be stupid but for people that buy it, it is a good way to cope with their wretched life
it's not often that a youtube video comes along that feels like it could truly and meaningfully spark a positive change in somebody, but if there's ever been one that fits the bill, here it is.
I appreciate you opening up about your own struggles and your own journey. To be a bit tongue-in-cheek, we're all gonna make it brah.
what a beautiful piece. you rarely see a video be this refined and efficient at getting its point across. i love the way you tied your story into the video. you did an outstanding job and i am proud of you even tho i have very little of an idea who you are. and i hope that you are proud too.
this channel is so cracked wtf i just watched like 3 hours worth of content i have laundry to fold
this video needs to be shown to everyone ever
If you have friends that are girls in middle school and high school than seeing past red pill is too easy
This is because loneliness often results in a resentment towards women and attracts these lonely young men to figures who criticize women and tell them “It’s not your fault women reject you, it’s society’s.” Loneliness comes in all forms, you can feel lonely due to lack of peers, lack of support from family, lack of role models, not just with women. What makes rejection from women harder is due to the fact that it is emasculating and creates insecurity in one’s masculinity. The red pill movement utilizes the same mindset as Qanon and other conspiracy theories, “If you agree with me you have done your research and are smart, and if you disagree it is because you are brainwashed and your opinions have all formed due to the lies of society.”
This was a good exploration, I feel a lot more confident moving forward in knowing what I need to do. Thank you Sisyphus
Excellent video, both great content and production. Glad I had a Dad who was a positive model and a mother who appreciated that in him.
First of your videos I cane across. Glad I did.
i love the editing on this video. i’m a sucker for the old clips shower between sections it give it so much more character
I think your final remarks hits a similar note to David Foster Wallace's This is Water speech about thinking critically about ones choices. (Below for reference is what I'm referring to)
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There are these two young fish swimming along and they happen to meet an older fish swimming the other way, who nods at them and says “Morning, boys. How’s the water?” And the two young fish swim on for a bit, and then eventually one of them looks over at the other and goes “What the hell is water?” [...] The point of the fish story is merely that the most obvious, important realities are often the ones that are hardest to see and talk about. Stated as an English sentence, of course, this is just a banal platitude, but the fact is that in the day to day trenches of adult existence, banal platitudes can have a life or death importance [...]
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This video here is such a great piece that exemplifies a dramatic change in how we perceive and conceptualize our belief systems in this age of information. Projects like these are likely completely novel in the history of our species. The fact that we can so quickly quantify and identify emergent ideologies in the very time that they are being developed opens opportunities for us as individuals to step outside of our echo chambers of traditional belief structures and personal identities that follow from them which we are all predisposed to in some facet or another, and to objectify them in a manner that invites self-reflection and inquisition toward progression. This seems to be one major transformation in how we contend with the state of our cultural climate. A really great video that goes down each level of abstraction to relate how esoteric political philosophy and sociological theory corresponds to everyday occurrences that concern popular notions and behaviors that are reminiscent of those abstract concepts. At what other point in time was there such continuity and accessibility in examining social phenomena while also having the ability to research the implications of such through scholastic works that not even a century ago was available only for a privileged minority. As far as the subject matter is concerned, this video does allude to problems that involve the angst which results from a social constructivist evaluation of gender and gender identity in that it dissolves any rigidity of long held beliefs about masculine and feminine conventions. This inevitably creates controversy and uncertainty upon the question of how we approach the issue of intersexual orientation on a cultural scale when the very constructs themselves may become so fluid that the traditional social dynamics between man and women become completely irrelevant and possibly become artifacts of a bigoted era. With my presumption that sexuality in its essence, is an irrational drive, but for that reason a very salient one, I start to hold a pessimism in the possibility that the nature of sexual identity and the self-affirming behaviors that emerge because of it are malleable to a point that would negate those maladaptive outcomes. The manosphere seems to be a multi-dimensional safe haven for a cohort of individuals who feel that they're social identities are taken for granted and misunderstood by other groups. The appeal of this ideology is likely most suited for adolescents and young adults who have a precarious developing self-image. If we were to meta-humanize this community in a nutshell it may result in the realization that these dated notions of subordinating your personal identify to a paramount tenet of debaucherous masculinity is a result of the perpetuation and glorification by generations of past patriarchal institutions which have anchored naïve men to these homogenous attitudes. it may only be indicative of them not yet having the time to recognize that these ideals are relics of the past which have implicit in them, an insistence upon an asymmetry of power to validate systems and values of which men traditionally represent. So, in summary this may only be a byproduct of what impressionable young men gravitate toward given that they have such little experience with the real world (i.e., relationships, professions, ideas etc.) that this community serves as a placeholder for a worldview which is substantiated by real world interactions and experiences that acknowledge the nuances and genuine heterodoxy that characterize the complexity of people and their beliefs which is adopted later in life.
I appreciate the time and effort you put into this.
The part that really got to me was the part about lobster tears and the whole dehumanisation section. When I was on the outskirts of the manosphere, I kept hearing all of these terrible things being said about women and I always doubted a lot of them, but for some reason I felt like I couldn’t deny their claims because… well, I’m not a woman. As a result, they managed to drill this idea of “what women say and what women do are two different things.” And I never bought into it, but I just felt like I couldn’t give up that facade because they told me that I was pathetic for doing it.
Dont judge people by what they say. Judge them by their doings.
*Except women*
Better?
I do want to say that categorizing people by sexuality, gender, and race does exclude one thing: disability and/or neurodivergency. Often, disabilities are ignored as a thing that makes someone a minority, even though most people agree that people who are disabled face discrimination and oppression. This is especially true for people with social or cognitive disabilities as these abilities are ignored, downplayed, or even glorified at times. For instance, I am a person with high functioning autism and ADHD. I am often told that my autism makes me "smarter than most people" or that "I don't seem like I have a disability". That or I am told that this disability makes me different or quirky, but doesn't give me much trouble beyond that. And this leads people to completely dismiss the social aspect of it and hold me up to the same standards as a neurotypical person. Like, if I am accidentally rude or awkward, miss social cues, or fail to use a polite tone, I am told I am being manipulative or bitchy or smth like that. And if I explain it's because of my autism, I'm told I'm just making excuses and should try harder. And it's hard because no matter how much I try to explain that I am autistic and that means I can be blunt without realizing, I am still dismissed as "making excuses". And it's not like I am saying I am completely incapable of learning this stuff, I most certainly am and have learned quite a lot. I'm not a helpless child after all. However, I can't just subconsciously know what I don't fully understand or haven't fully learned. And with my ADHD, I was told once that my ADHD isn;'t even a disability and most people are faking it. And this puts straight white men who are neurodivergent in a weird position. They aren't as opressed as most neurodivergent people, and they have a lot of privilege, but they still face discrimination and struggles that most white straight men just don't. But this is often overlooked as an actual oppressed group or minority, so they are still told to "check their privilege". These men are often isolated by society and ostracized by those around them, particularly if they have autism as that greatly hinders a person's social skills. And this makes these men vulnerable and desperate to belong. And so they turn to places like the manosphere which provide them a community they likely never got before. This becomes a source of stability for them, making them cling to it pretty tightly. This also leads these men to blame society and grow bitter towards it, since the society that is apparently so privileged for them has rejected these men. It can make them think that liberals telling them that they aren't oppressed and poc, lgbtq, and/or women are the real oppressed groups are lying as well... they aren't any of those things and they are oppressed. That's why I think we need to take neurodivergency into account because it excludes an entire group of people who are indeed a minority and face discrimination. And if you browse blackpill or redpill forums, you'll notice quite a few of these men are neurodivergent and do a lot of self loathing because of it. A lot of these men are quite vulnerable, and these vulnerability makes it easy for them to be molded into bigoted assholes.
so true!! The things I've heard people say to dismiss neurodivergency can be so harmful and I agree we should take neurodivergency into account as valid experiences
I love your vids. And this is one of the best (*accessible/fun) on the subject, without losing any of the request depth the subject deserves. Thank you.
“Up yours woke moralists! We’ll see who cancels who!”
Great work, dude!
42:22 this was spot on, this was the thought that created a lot of negativity in me. Thank you very much for making these videos, they really do help (and are very interesting to watch)