I played Euphonium starting back in 7th grade and all the way through school. Marching band and symphonic concert band. I stopped and put it down after school for working and life. I have thought about my music thru the years and just never picked it back up. I am now 59 and was just thinking about it once again and bam this shows up as recommended which blew my mind. Reminded me of the beauty of this type of music again. So now I will be looking for a horn to see if I still have it in my heart. Beautiful playing, thank you and God Bless
Honestly, like many of the comments below, a “cheap” instrument might not bare the same thickness, tube length, metal etc, it can be overcome by an adept player, as well as mouthpiece selection. I’ve played on several cheap brands, one even as low as 300 dollars and although it was constructed significantly different than your common Yamaha, Jupiter, Besson or Adams euphonium, it played quite well for my skill level at that time which was around 8 years ago. I’ve seen some of the newer cheap brands and I’ve got to say, they have done quite well. Personally, a cheap horn might not be advisable for someone past a collegiate level, but for students just learning or players who can’t afford a 4,000 plus intermediate instrument, I don’t see anything wrong with learning on what’s available. Any instrument can be played beautifully, it’s just up to the determination of the player.
the valves and the pistons how long before they start to hang or become slow OR LEAK the valve action is night and day on a 1000usd tuba vs besson's top model
Adams orders in China for what I’ve heard. Instruments come fully assembled. Procedure is similar to how Wessex operates: designs in Europe, orders prototypes in China, evaluates and quality controls in China, orders per (full) container. A close and prosperous partnership. Only … Wessex is open about it.
@@MILKYBAR1969 I only paid $750 for my King 1241. It sounds like I paid $750 and I have played 1241s that sounded great. In a more representative test, I played a $33,000 Meinl Weston 195/2 Fafner against a $5,700 BMB J765. I know that I was pitting a rotary against a York, but I liked the BMB better. Both tubas sounded great, but I liked the sound of the BMB better. It just depends on what you need. Most of us aren't good enough to need a pro-level instrument as we won't sound like a pro no matter how good the instrument is.
I'm a 52 year old HS/MS Band director and lifetime brass player who, two months ago, bought a Mackbrass Euphonium for myself and a Mackbrass 3/4 size, 4 valve tuba for my school. At this point, I've performed with the euphonium in one Colorado Brass Band performance and two Community Symphony concerts. I've also kept the tuba away from kids so that I can both long term test it myself and let all of my adult brass buddies give it a try. My short answer is: I was hesitant to purchase these horns because I wanted/needed to believe that the more expensive options had to be that much better. Thankfully, this has not been my experience. These JinBao horns play and look great. I repeat - These JinBao horns play and look great. I, nor my brass buddies can find much of a reason not to buy 'em. With the top brands and models you do get the finish sculpting and detailing that you would expect, and I understand that that can be very important to some and should not be dismissed. But, if you just want a horn that looks good and sounds great, these things are awesome. The total purchase price for both the euphonium and the tuba was less than half of a single top line euphonium. I will buy more of these horns for both myself and my school - I just can't justify the more expensive horns. p.s. You sure play well.. Nice work...
Thank you Sir! JinBao Mack Brass and Schiller will be in the upcoming videos. Will compare this horn with JinBao. Both fantastic for the price! Will do a bit more In depth comparison soon. Thanks for sharing your experience! Best, Algirdas
Do you know of any first or second hand experience with mendini double french horns? It has been over 40 years since I've played and I've always missed it. I am retired and on disability now so my dream horn is way out of my price range!
as a brass and woodwind repair tech for many years my thoughts are, yes it may play ok, and lets face it a pro player can make most brands sound good, It all comes down to reliability and how long will it last. Lets face it a lot of students do not look after the instrument, in my experience the cheaper brands do not hold up to this, and lose lacquer and silver very quickly, slides rot and get stuck very easily, valve wear out or scratch easily. with woodwind, metal is either too soft that keys bend just by normal use, or in some cases way too hard that if a key bends its very hard to put back to original shape. Materials used are not always quality hence the low prices, but do agree that we pay way too much for a brand name, especially now that a lot of the so called top brands instrument are made in China. With this in mind I will say there are some amazing Instruments out there that are made in China and Taiwan, my golden rule is google the brand, no info, stay away. Great video, and nice playing.
I played a Hirsbrunner in college and loved it. I now have a Mack euphonium and a Wessex baritone. They ARE really good. I agree 100% that these Jin-Bao horns are good enough for 90% of the players out there.
Well said! And your beautiful playing illustrates the point. I had one of the first Schiller compensating euphoniums when they first came out in 2010 or so. It played very well, but was rather unrefined with a lot of the little things, cheap feeling valve caps, noisy clanky valves, hazy finish, etc. But it played decently. I had a Wessex for a short time last year and couldn't believe the improvements they made, having fixed all of the concerns I had previously. In this amateur's opinion, it was 98% as good as the Yamaha Neo. And last month I visited my home town and played an even newer version of the Schiller that was just a couple of months old. And it was nearly as good as the Wessex....it didn't have some of the tweaks that Wessex does like the floating leadpipe. larger valve buttons, etc, but all of my old complaints about the old Schiller had been fixed. These horns have come a long way in the past 5 years!
My major instrument is tuba but I also play baritone as well. I once owned a Besson which had a great sound and was considered the world's finest until Willson came out. I then bought the best Willson I could. Since my primary instrument is tuba I used a large Shilke 60 mouthpiece on the euphomium which produced a very strong lower register on the Willson as well as an extremely powerful upper register. The last time I played either instrument is over 25 years ago so I can't speak as to the quality of current instruments. By te way, I have watched many of your videos and I really appreciate your playing.
It's actually an age old argument (same with the Mercedes vs whatever type of car) the reality comes from an engineering and production point of view and the rest is pure snobery. If an instrument is well made then that is exactly what it is; well made. The schematics for brass instruments have been around for centuries and have been improved through modern production techniques but some players will deny this. The difference between an intermediate and professional brass instrument is definitely there but to talk about "development" of machined metal is a bit ridiculous in todays modern world. A professional brass instrument costs more because it has been better (at a higher level of precision) machined and you are also PAYING for the brand, no more no less. @Heimat: you seem to have a problem with the chinese and sound like a right nob, maybe do some homework on WHY China has become the production line for Europe and the rest of the west first before you rant off into a self righteous idiot circus . My best advice for anyone buying a new brass instrument is to test as many as you can before you buy and stay away from the really cheap instruments but don't ignore the intermediate range as they are really not that bad. If you are doing studio or solo work then going pro will help your sound but it's not a 100% watertight argument but for ensemble work an intermediate instrument would be fine.
Even more relevant, you get what you pay for (in regards to Chinese instruments). A $200 cornet will sound like $200, whereas a $700 cornet might sound like a good challenge for some of the multi-thousand dollar instruments.
There are professional trumpet players that use intermediate horns. It's ultimately the player that makes the difference. A professional horn won't make a bad player sound good. But a great player can make an average horn sound great. Professional horns only make good players sound better.
Everything changes everything - where you put weight, what tapers you use in the leadpipe and bell, even the size of the bell flare itself... "development" typically means making instruments with different combinations until you find ones you like (and which play well in tune) - some parts will be dead ends (certain leadpipe tapers, bell tapers/flares/throats, etc) and that has to be discovered by trial and error to a certain extent. Now sure, intermediate designs have to have this same development too, but the developer is probably prepared to cut the process shorter (or use "not quite" combinations that didn't make the final cut for the professional model)... beyond that, intermediate designs utilise the typical cost-cutting steps you'd expect - QC/QA a bit less strict, using more junior assemblers (you wouldn't believe the impact that soldering an instrument together under tension can have - it's HUGE) who cost less wages, etc... AND! There's often only one or two intermediate models per brand - where there are a bunch of professional models and variants (per brand)... and developing/stocking different models costs the manufacturer money, so guess who's going to pay for that? And sure, for quite a lot of players (more than would admit it) the professional grade ones aren't necessary (as the video poster states) - but for the very, very serious players there are still little handicaps that the intermediates put up that the professional models don't, and at that level that's enough to make a significant difference. PS - the amount of actual "machining" involved is usually fairly minimal... the vast majority of the tubing is drawn to a mandrel (there are a few companies that machine leadpipes but they're very few and far between - and nobody machines bells).
I'm an old amateur; have always played cheap instruments, now play US made horns almost as old as I am. Love them, love doing it. It comes down to what you can put into them. dt
Thanks for posting this! I'm a tuba and Euphonium player whose spent a lot of time on all the affordable and expensive models. My negative experience is not in how the Chinese horns play (pitch and valve accuracy), but more in the sound, especially when playing them in ensembles. You can't catch the difference in sound and how the horn resonates until you take it into brass or wind band rehearsal. It almost feels like you lose the thickness or core to the sound once other instruments are added. However, I will give a shout out to the John Packer line in being the first one I played that improved that problem, possibly just by changing the lead pipe. They do not feel like the other models made at Jinbao in China (Schiller, Wessex, Mack, etc) and seem to more closely match the Besson Sov. I've enjoyed your video reviews (also very helpful to my students). Thanks so much!
I purchased a Schiller American Heritage trombone with closed-wrap F-attachment to use as a marching band horn in college. I really can't complain about it. Spare a few quirks in terms of fit-and-finish (loose slide lock, bell and slide tenon don't match very well) it's a great horn. The metal is thinner than I expected, but it's surprisingly resilient to damage. I'm satisfied with the quality enough that I'd willingly pick up some other kind of horn (like a euphonium or bass trombone) built by them in the future.
I admit I own a few euphoniums, and I was fortunate to get them for cheap. For example, I have a Besson Sovereign and a Thomann 906 GP Superior. Although, the Thomann sounds like a Prestige compared to the Sovereign, the Sovereign has a deep Besson tone that isn't 100% matched by Thomann. The Thomann does have a Besson-like tone, though. I think Thomann has one of the best tones in the horns that I own. The Sovereign does sound a bit smaller, mainly due to its being made around 1992 and has a .580 bore. Thomann 906 has a .590 bore and 12.25" bell. It also weighs about 11 lbs. I just thought I'd add a little review! Not taking ANYTHING away from the Sovereign, but I believe the Thomann is the real deal as well as Sovereign, and it can be bought brand new for less than $2000, even including shipping and import fees. I wish more people new about it.
I just bought an inexpensive 4 valve compensating euphonium in lacquered brass finish from a vendor in Germany. I am pretty sure it is a rebranded Jinbao EP-1150L. I have had it for a few days, and so far I am absolutely delighted with the instrument. I can find nothing wrong with the fit and finish of the instrument except for the minor issue that one has to be very carefull when screwing the valve caps onto the piston casing in order to avoid cross threading. The pistons work fine, the tuning seems fine (when compared to a tuner), and to my ear the tone quality is just fine, though I should admit that I just took up playing again after many decades of not playing, so my judgement of the tone quality should be taken with a grain of salt. The cost of the instrument was less than $550, including case, mouthpiece, and shipping to the US.
Oddly, I found this video after watching your Packer vs Schiller video. I instantly recognized the one you're playing here, because we've been eyeing a JP274 that showed up at our local pawn shop, of all places. My son is a freshman in high school and is shifting to euphonium from trombone as his primary instrument. I played euphonium 30 years ago, so I looked at the horn and gave it a shot at the shop. Pretty good in my eye, and my son is going to try it today. It's priced at $1000, but with no case. Being a small town pawn shop, whose staff openly admitted knowing nothing about musical instruments, I'm seeing plenty of room for negotiation! Thanks for posting this video!
at 12:50 right now, you play so beautifully, and it's like feelings and emotions come from the music. I'm almost sad because it's such a nice melody :) there is no way I could tell that's not a top-model instrument, you prove your point so well! keep making videos they are so helpful, even though I'm playing a cornet haha :)
I found dramatic (day/night) difference between an indian instrument (don't remember the brand) that would get the pistons stuck and the sound was just out of tune, to then a 4 piston Yamaha (321) and then I tried my Eastmann EEP426 and fell in love instantly. I haven't tried true professional instruments, but certainly pays to get to the 'mid level' (for me).
Many years ago I was an Army Euphonium player. I quit that to take a dream (non-music) job. I have since retired and after 35 years, started playing euphonium again. I started out with a cheap $600, 4 valve horn. It had a pretty good sound, but it just wasn't very good in many other ways. It left me wanting more. Someone suggested a Mack Brass horn and I looked at reviews. The reviews were very good. After speaking with the folks at Mack Brass, I bought one and could not be happier. The Yamaha 642 MIGHT be a little better in some ways, but I haven't found it yet. If the Yamaha is better, I can assure you it isn't $5000 worth of better. (At least not for me.) If we go back to that "90% of players" rule, I would bet that if you covered up the name, telling the MAck Brass from the 642, would be almost impossible. BTW - Just for fun, the other day I tried playing an "XO". It is slightly over $2000, but it was VERY nice.
This is a very interesting topic,and one worth discussing, especially for all the majority of musicians who are not making a living professionally and are giving back to their community playing in amateur or semi-pro orchestras, bands and brass ensembles. I am about to retire after 34 years as a band director, elementary through high school. As such I have also played for as many years concurrently in community and semi-pro ensembles as a bass and tenor trombonist. Back in those days it was always Bach, Conn, King. Yamaha or Holton and a few others as mainstay brands, though Getzen and Jupiter have made major inroads, especially in bass trombones. There was almost always little choice in the matter - get a pro horn or suffer from the mediocre student-line offerings on the market. When I bought my bass in 1998, it boiled down to a choice of a Getzen at around $2K, or a custom ordered Edwards, Shires or Kanstul at twice that price. As a musician not making a living on my playing it was extremely difficult to justify spending the money on a custom horn. And nowadays, the stock pro offerings from these manufacturers and others have crept up in price too, making buying them often unjustifiable too. So now comes this new crop of Chinese made brass instruments, which do seem to have stepped up significantly. Many are designed or made to specifications and licensed by well known companies. I needed a back-up horn recently when my trusty old Getzen 1062FD went down for a trigger repair and was out for three weeks. I shopped around and discovered the John Packer Rath 3320 tenor trombone being sold by reputable dealers, at about half the price of a traditional Bach, Getzen or Yamaha stock pro horn. The horn carries the JP and Rath logos, so it is licensed by them. That's a lot to live up to; I was not surprised to find that the fit and finish of this instrument to be nearly flawless, including a beautifully made hand slide, usually where corners are cut on cheap trombones. The horn's response, intonation and slotting felt like a pro horn, which it is being marketed as, but a pro horn on a budget. I haven't really found any negatives yet in the month and a half that I have had it, but time will tell. Will it hold up as play a beautifully as my 1062FD has over 20 years, who knows? That is not say that there are not some bad actors out there. I have seen students playing on brass instruments made from China that literally fall apart in their hands after a few weeks of playing, impossible to tune, and whose metal dents just by looking at it. They also have valves and slides which corrode and freeze seemingly at will. A $99 special online gets you what you pay for, despite my repeated warnings to parents. Thank your for making your video on this subject. I don't know what the ratio is of pro players to amateurs, but if it's 10/90, your 90% statement may be accurate. I've seen pros like Conrad Herwig and Michael Dease tearing it up on the JP Rath 230 straight tenor trombones lately, so there are some authoritative voices out there along with your own talking up these affordable alternatives.
I'm a 57 year old euphonium player who recently treated myself to my first 'owned' euphonium in many years as I was not happy with the band instrument that I was using. I bought the Conn 300 which looks virtually identical to a top end instrument but cost less than £1,200. It plays beautifully and looks stunning, too, with a mixture of silver plate and lacquer trim. The valves need a little more care to keep them working well than other instruments I have played (usually Sovereigns). The trigger works but is taking time to 'run in' and is improving every week. I haven't noticed any tuning problems, although I have to extend the 1st valve slide a little (as I notice you have on your video). Even the case is good. I'm pretty sure it is a branded version of the Chinese horn that you feature at the start of this video. I recognise my best playing days are behind me - BUT - I'm not past it, yet! And I'm really enjoyed a renewed interest in playing and practicing with this new instrument - that cost around 20% the price of a professional level instrument. No regrets and heartily recommended.
I did a lot of research about a year ago when preparing to write a review of a Schiller instrument. I found out that there USED to be a Schiller brass manufacturer in Germany, but that it was defunct, and nobody owned the brand name. Then I found out from some other in-the-know folks that Schiller is just a brand name attached to various Chinese made instruments, presumably because it sounds 'more legit'. So I believe that there is no "Schiller" who could be doing a good job replicating high end instruments, but instead there is apparently one or more Chinese companies that are doing good replication jobs and attaching the Schiller name to some of their product.
I had a Jupiter 3 valve baritone and it was GREAT. I now have a Yamaha $ valve euphonium and it is a much more sturdy instrument, but not that different to play.
Algirdas, I agree with you. Have tried several instruments on the Frankfurth Musik Messe. From trumpets, via french horn, to trombone, euph.s and tubas. Last time I wanted to try Alexander and Paxman horns, but they did not attend the Messe. More Chinese companies were there. They get better each year. Btw, I have a Wessex (Jina Bao) Eb tuba - almost as good as the Bessons I played -and much cheaper. Two years ago, I wanted to buy a used Besson Eb, but they demanded more for that one, than a new Wessex, so I just bought the Wessex. Will play it this evening (I double on french horn and tuba in a gig). I love your playing and your videos, Algiras!
I remember that I have marched for a while with my high school. We had to use really cheap Chinese marching baritones and they were trash. They cost $350 but broke down alot. I always took care of them but during a rehearsal, the third valve stem came off completely! The other horn did the same thing. After seeing the Wessex review, I really wana give it a try. But that was my sour experience with cheap marching baritones.
I agree with you. I have had nothing but trouble with my cheap tuba. It has a beautiful sound but it has had to have so many repairs (and I take good care of my instrument) and for some reason the lead pipe is so much lower than on standard tubas. This is a serious problem ergonomically. The tubing behind the valves is positioned higher than usual as well, and so i have to reach higher with valve hand. As a result, I have damage to my shoulder from reaching awkwardly whilst simultaneously slouching in order to reach my mouthpiece. (And propping it higher to improve my posture only makes the strain on my shoulder worse). This tuba is the worst mistake i ever made.
I still have the first and only horn I ever owned: a Yamaha YEP-321, bought in the summer of 1976 (almost 41 years ago!!), when I was 15 years old. I still play it, but only for an occasional church special number. I've been playing the horn since I was 9. I can't tell if it's me or the horn, but I'm never quite happy with the tuning of the horn. Is this a known problem with the YEP-321, or do I need to re-tune my hearing aids? I only play with a piano with my wife of 33+ years - my only accompanist during all that time. When I was young, I had no idea people would ever be making a living playing the euphonium. Thank you for what you're doing for young people today - those who will never have access to somebody of your talent. You give a lot away at no cost to those learning - I hope you receive some satisfaction in return. Oh, how I wished I could justify buying another horn.
Hey Don! Thanks so much for kind words and glad you find these videos useful! The non compensating horns like YEP321 definitely have tuning issues. You can buy some really nice compensating euphoniums for 800usd nowadays but on the other hand I completely understand difficulties finding reasoning to invest extra money. Thanks for sharing your feedback! Best of luck, Algirdas
Hey there! Could you do a video for the brass band players used to playing in treble clef on how to play in bass clef/concert? :) Also, how would you describe the role of euphonium in different ensembles? I feel like I'm a concert band the Euph would blend a lot? (separate video?) Thanks! Great video :)
Looking at a Wessex Festivo (hardly used from a friend) because of the arthritis in my right hand makes the traditional on top compensating euphoniums problematic on some days, others not. I own a top end baryton German made rotary 4 valve. It's an excellent horn and I get a great sound on it. It doesn't have the deep rich euphonium sound plus some community band members get upset at me because of the bell direction and I'm a strong player so I guess it's too loud for them. I sold my old Conn 24I as I just wasn't using it and it really needed some attention being 60 years old. Still in great shape. So the Miraphone ovals and upright Kaisers are nice and fill in the range with the fifth valve used are affordable but still don't have the exact sound I love on the euphonium. The other option to the Festivo is the Wilson Canadian Brass model which is rare to find used and out of the budget new if you can find one. They are heavier than the Festivo. So I'm breaking my promise to myself and buying the Festivo. I have a Jupiter XO bass trombone which I love, has an awesome sound and parts and repairs are not an issue. Jupiter is very upfront and has great customer support. I would go to far as this is a great horn at any price. My tenor trombone is US made and I like it over my previous Bach and others. It does have the free flow valve.
IMO, for anyone having trouble with their euphonium playing, testing out different mouthpieces is a cheaper route to see if that may be an issue. It is a more likely issue as well. Having a $9000 Miraphone isnt going to do you any favors if your mouthpiece isnt the right size for your mouth.
I play the flute, and through everything, cheap instruments do very well. I played a Gemeinhardt that was a C, a Yamaha that was an open-hole, and a Schiller Elite that was a standing bass. Truth be told, they all suit me just fine. The C did give me trouble, but lasted a very long time. My bass is my current instrument, and it was SO much cheaper, it plays beautifuly. It was roughly $13,000 cheaper than a Jupiter.
I have a Bach Strad 72 and recently purchased a JinBao. I myself like them both. I asked a friend before getting the Jinbao and he likes them as well. I've been using it more in big bands than the Bach.
I purchased a Mack Brass Euphonium last year and I have been playing on it since. the only issue I have found in "amateur" horns that I have played is that the springs did not bounce back as fast as I would like. (I am a sophomore music performance major) i have only needed to purchase springs for my Euphonium. I am upgrading to a Wessex Dolce this fall and renting out my Mack Brass to a private student. I love my Mack Brass and it was the first Euphonium I have ever bought. it is worth it. also, I can only hope to play like you one day. either this fall or next spring I plan on playing Harlequin as my solo piece. I just got done performing Sonata for Unaccompanied Euphonium by Fred Clinard. amazing playing. I just recently found out about you and I'm glad I did
You might be able to upgrade the springs to a compatible Yamaha set. From my understanding the Mack Brass Euphonium is modeled after the Yamaha YEP641. It's shocking how wonderful sounding these more recent Chinese brands are now producing. It appears you can achieve about 90% of the sound quality of the upper class instruments for a fraction of the price. A commonly reported downside is how the finish doesn't last as long (wearing gloves is highly recommended), and also quicker wear & tear on the valves and plastic guides and such. The good news is the instrument can still be re-plated, and there are probably some custom valve re-conditioning shops you could go to... spending a bit more money on a few years later from the purchase date.
I used to play on a cheap cheap mack french horn. You can make a beautiful tone on them but you needed a good mouthpiece can use cheap ones on it. The only problem is the intonation and tuning in general. There was alot of movement in my bell when I had to play smooth pretty pieces but other than that they are just beautiful sounding instruments in the right hands
I will remember back in the late 70s early 80s, I was in my high school band and we got a chance where some of the NC Orchestra members come and played with us. I was playing trombone with one of those rent to own Conn trombones that had the bell soldered back on and was a total piece of junk. I was sitting by this trombonist with his Bach Strad. He was playing and it was the most glorious sound. I told him I couldn't wait until I could afford a horn like he was playing. It sounded so much better than mine. He asked to see my horn, and took a few minutes to clean my slide and put the slide grease on that he was using and sprayed it down. He then played the same piece with my horn. I was in shock and awe!!! That he was able to make the same glorious sounds come from my beat up little horn as he did his professional horn. Then I said something totally stupid! " What kind of slide grease was that?" He made his point though that a good player can make any instrument sound better. He said to practice more, listen to the tone and use more air. Is a cheap horn like a JP or a Shiller going to be as good for professional use, where they are looking for tone, probably not! As for me I am wanting to get back to playing so that I can play in church. back in the 80s I did finally step up to the same Bach that the Orchestra member was playing, and it served me well through high school and College. Then I stopped playing and sold it. I do think that a cheaper horn will be the route for me at this juncture.
This shows, just like the Violin man, that when you are a virtuoso, you can make a paper cup sound wonderful.... It does show that hard work is more important than an expensive instrument.
I could see using the reference of "cheap" among the Chinese knock-offs 5-10 years ago. But with the current Jimbao (and other) line-ups they are coming out with are shockingly great. I would change the term to "inexpensive"... as that is a much more appropriate term now :-)
it is not necessarily the sound that is the problem with the cheap tubas but the valves and the pistons how long before they start to hang or become slow the valve action is night and day on a 1000usd tuba vs besson's top model
I spent less than 500 on my non-compensating euphonium. In the upper registers, it's sweet. Going down from the middle, it gets a bit muddy between E2 and C2, then recovers for some nice pedal tones down to B0. I have had to play a half pitch lower than written to fix issues with a sustained C2. I am looking to upgrade eventually, but for most pieces in a community orchestra, it's fine.
You are absolutely correct, I don't play amateur horn in concerts myself because there is a difference. However, when I started testing some of the amateur horns this year I was shocked by the quality improvements they have made. I agree with you're point though and that's why I always tell that buying an expensive horn won't hurt your playing but if you're a kid who played for 5 years or so you will unlikely be able to exploit that extra 10 or whatever percent that high end horn gives you, so why not just get a horn which would be 5,6,7 times cheaper and would be a great fit for you. Thanks for sharing your opinion brother! Best, Algirdas
Yeah, I see how the lacquer could be easily underworked on cheap horns. Even the plating sometimes is not that great. This point I could definitelly agree on with you buddy!
For this price range USD$ 120 to USD$ 200 , buy JinBao (the most established brand probably the largest in China their instrument came with quality cert) i bought a plain cheapest Bb trombone from JinBao and it is good i was very surprise with the smooth slide i expect from a USD$ 1K equivalent instrument (but tonal quality of course is not comparable to a USD$ 2K yamaha but does not sound cheap). I was wondering why they ship only valve oil instead of slide grease and base on the well built slide grease is not necessary. They have performance grade that cost much more but for a start to pickup learning instrument can buy this brand with confidence as they have a reputation to uphold.
I will review Schiller soon, their JinBao horn is indeed very similar to this one I use in the video :) Great horns they make nowadays, thanks for sharing thoughts my friend! Best, Algirdas
A while ago I found myself playing 1st baritone in a brass band for 1 gig. I preferred the Wessex 4 valve bari over the Besson Prestige! I have tried several Wessex euphos. Didn't like any of them. The Wessex bass trom plays nice, but I found it really hard to hold.
Well I'm starting lessons in this wonderfull instrument and looking to purchase one and figure 2000 bucks besson's ones instead a 800usd of another brand. Still a student brass no compensating but think it Will accompany me several years. I know have to learn the basics but a well madestudent horn maybe it's the choice. What do You think?. Another thing it's I'm almost 40 so Will take care of it like an adult, so... Don't know if this a thing... But it's something I thinked.
I liked the sound of the horn. I have been a euphoniumist since the mid-60s. I am NOT a professional, but I would say definitely in the intermediate level. I do not have a degree in euphonuum. I have played a number of cheap and better quality horns. I have been invited to play in ensembles for stidents completing their graduate degrees in conducting, etc. In most cases, at least of the better horns I have played, *I* am the limiting factor, and not the horn. I would definitely love to play a horn of the quality demonstrated in this rehearsal video. I really agree with your premise, Algirdas. I might enjoy being able to say I had played on a top level Meinl Weston or Petersburg, but I can't claim I need one to do my best. As @restlessinvention mentioned, there is definitely an amount of the price that IS paying for the name in addition to what you are paying for the higher precision in building the horn. People who have the money also may indulge in a little ego in saying I play a "TOPLEVELBRAND" horn, even if their actual skill level would not demand such a horn. For instance, I know my own skill level. and in all honesty, a very expensive Meinl Weston or Schiller would not make me a better player. More and more practice will make me a better player.
Those out of tunes notes are because of the horn ? Or do you play the same with a high end horn ? You play great, don't get me wrong, I could never play like that.
1&2 valve combos is slightly muted and less open the 3rd valve and some times 1, 2,&3 is way off pitch. The horn definitely needs the thumb driven tuning slide. I know its proactice but some times I am hearing notes that are way off pitch. I don't have perfect pitch so they must be pretty obvious if I can detect them.
Tricky one, really depends on the condition. High end is still high end but the problem with euphoniums they wear out extremely quick so you need to make that you don't find flat notes, worn out valve guides unless the horn uses cheap replaceable valve guides like besson and sterling and bends in the pipes (not dents but rather bends)
I am a trombonist who bought the JP 174 Euphonium to double on an ensemble at my college. It gets the job done and by no means am I a great Euphonium player, but it was worth the $700 I got it for. I will most likely upgrade to the Jp 274 or the Wessex Dolce in the coming years. Great video, thanks for this showcase!
Hi Ryan - please let me know which one you ended up with. We are also trying to decide between the JP274 and Wessex Dolce. There is another video by Matonizz that compares the JP274 with the Schilling Elite. For me, it was no question... the JP274 was the clear winner both on the sweet dark tone but also how SUPER QUIET the valves were! I couldn't believe the difference between the "virtually invisible" sound (or lack of) of the valves' movements of the JP model. I hope the Wessex Dolce is also as quiet. I do know that JP is Chinese, but does not use the Jimbao stencils. I also heard mixed reports (NOT REVIEWS/FEEDBACK mind you) regarding if the Wessex is, in fact, Jimbao or not. It might only be Jimbao in certain parts, but not as a whole and they do report to do a thorough Q/C check and test every instrument before it leaves their facility. Wessex is also using an improved finish process by using machinery that makes them more blemish free (although some still report to have some minor blemishes on occasion). The finish on most of the JP's are reported to be as pristine as the higher make brands, but I really do like that Silver + Gold accent option appearance of the Wessex. The Schilling had quite a "brassy" type brighter sound, which was not my preference but I completely understand the need for that type of sound depending on one's application. I'm guessing the Wessex might be somewhere in between the dark/sweet JP and the bright/brassy Schilling. If you also buy into the controversial placebo-effect reports about finish types one could choose a lacquered brass Wessex to achieve an even closer sound to the JP. But everyone seems to prefer shiny silver over the "old school" look of Brass from the student / high school days. While silver plating is more expensive, make no mistake... the price point is MUCH more likely correlated with its popularity - in similar fashion as kitchen appliances.
Sounded better than my high schools euphoniums. They were brass garbage bins. Great director, bad funding. We had to work twice as hard for competitions, but it showed. We always placed high competitively. When I went to college, it was like the euphoniums played themselves.
I have found that a cheep french horn is harder to play dramatically so when you try to play louder but I am comparing student instruments to bottom level perfesional
I have a JP174s and that was 1500 and is a fantastic instrument, the sound is great, I think it suffers a bit with intonation but great really. Now I have played on a prestige and it's so much easier to play especially with range and intonation, I find with the JP in comparison I have to put a bit more effort in but love the instrument
This was my experience playing horns of different caliber back in high school. Could I sound good on both the entry-level cornet and the Bach Stradivarius? Yes. Were both equally easy? No, not really. I once felt a huge difference between two French horns, but I've forgotten their makes/models. This was all circa 2010
I've played euphonium for about fifteen years. I own one of the two I play now! And yes, It was cheap! Not in quality, but cost It is a silver plated King! It sounds great! The one I own take a lot of air to make a sound so much that my neurosurgeon told me not to play it because it could cause seizures! So, one of my doctors, whom I once played with in a small church orchestra loaned me his euphonium, which was a lot smaller to plat in it's place, It's only about one octave higher than the King euphonium I have, but I can still hit some pedal tones with it. I miss being able to play it and I miss playing the trumpet as well! The doctor said "no way" to playing the trumpet! If that doesn't cause seizures, you will surely pass out from lack of oxygen! When I completely recover from my stroke, I will play them both again! Thanks for sharing this video on TH-cam!
My 160€ trumpet still sounds and works good after 4 years .I learned on a 80€ trumpet and it wasn't very good very dull sounding but the other one sounds perfect "FOR ME"
A slight loss in tone in the upper part of the midrange. And yet, the high range is surprisingly good and the F low range is even better. So yes, I believe this would suffice for most college level players (most will be band directors, or composers,etc, if they continue in music post college). So yes, you've made your case. That said, the other factor to consider is how well will it age. But that can't be judged from here. I can say that my Besson Euphonium is close to 50 years old. It's suffered some dings (most from before I got it in 1985), but it's still in great shape. I've replaced the springs 3 timed and the pads are only now being replaced; admittedly, that should have been done decades ago. The welds are solid, no serious corrosion. 95% of the silver plate is good. The valves are not distorted, and it's quite smooth on the action. The tone is consistent throughout; even though I'm a bit rusty.
Sufficient for MOST who read/listen. Skills of the player and the mouthpiece can make huge difference too. ps... Was that a Gershwin piece in the video?
I'll be making the move to a Wessex in a year or so when I get the funds together. What would you recommend for mouthpiece size on the euphonium? I realize this often comes down to individual preference. Just looking for something to start with. I'm moving from a 90+ year old baritone horn with 6 1/2 AL mouthpiece. Thanks!
Hey Tony, in terms of the standard size, it would be 4 on Dennis Wick, 5 on Schillke or Parker, those are the most common ones. I used this size for most of my playing years. Hope that helps my friend. Best, Algirdas
I've been using a Roy Benson Chinese-made trombone for the past year and a half, and I have to say it's served its purpose well so far. I'm not a professional musician, nor am I even a student; I just play in a couple concert bands and orchestras in my hometown, and my good old Roy Benson hasn't let me down yet. Pretty good for a $700 USD trombone.
On the flipside though, I do own a generic Chinese alto trombone (it bears the Roy Benson name but I'm convinced they just bought the rights to it), and it isn't nearly as well put together as the tenor one. So I guess the main thing that separates reputable brands from cheaper ones isn't necessarily build quality, but quality control and consistency across models (or even within the same model).
jr lepage I agree. I got a fantastic fully wooden oboe for about $1500, which is great for its price and I have to say, the quality was pretty good. The only complaint I had about it is that it's a fully auto, making it hard to fix when a hole got clogged. I've also seen a lotttt of Chinese oboe fails, so I guess I'm just really lucky.
I used a yamaha student model alto sax. which I bought for 300 in junior high school, and used high school and all 8 years of college. no one ever knew it was a cheap horn until I told them and I mean everyone. even a local Philharmonic conductor. let's just say used to live in the LA county.
Obviously you have more skill than I ever did. That doesn't change the love of music that has to go with it. You obviously love playing. You have no reason to slant your opinion either way. I hope you have plenty of success in the future and keep playing your music! Have you had any experience with mendini double french horn?
To get a compensating euphonium for $1500 is a miracle! I have searched WWBW they all are around $5,000! If it's a foreign brand we have no way to compare it. But the video of this instrument is beautiful well in tune. (but there is too much reverb in the studio for me to hear accurately)
I played tuba in high school, but I never owned my own instrument, I rented one from the school. I would like to own my own tuba, but the only way it can happen is on the cheap.
Keep the embouchure very centered but relaxed. Close your lips sufficiently and makes sure they don't open too much or slide away from centering. Blow faster air along with it. Hope this helps my friend!
Hello, I play on lacquer Mack Brass euphonium. I've had it for 3 years of highschool I still plan to use it for a couple years of college (I'm a Music Ed Major). I'm currently a freshman so the horn is coming up to 4 years old. I think the horn is definitely worth its price for when I got it. It has gotten me through many performances and rehearsals and such. Mack Brass offers really nice horns but there are some things I personally dislike. My horn is far to heavy for me. It feels like I'm lifting a giant weight when I try to play which makes it rather uncomfortable. I've held a besson prestige 2051 and a Yamaha 642 and neither weighed as much as my Mack. The valves are also very stiff. I care for my horn and even brought it to music shops to get looked at it and deep cleaned. However, the valves are still extremely stiff and they couldn't do anything to really fix it. This makes playing fast runs and music more difficult than it really should be. The Mack euph holds good intonation and I know it's also affected by how I play but for me, an E natural on the staff (bass clef) is very flat as well as the A natural below. It doesn't blow as openly as I'd like it to but it's still good. Other than those things, I think the horn is very good. it produces a nice dark sound and can sing in the high register. The low register is a bit stuffy but not too bad. I'm definitely going to look into a professional horn for my later years in college. But you can't beat the price for Mack Brass. I'm glad I got it and will definitely tell others about it.
I would get a professional horn like a Besson or Sterling. But I'm really tight on money at the moment because of school. I'll be playing my Mack euphonium until I can save up money over the next couple years.
Perhaps instead of asking if you could get 5x better sound with a more expensive instrument, the better question would be, do you have have work harder to get a good sound with a cheap instrument?
First of all, AWESOME playing! How much time did you have to familiarize yourself with the instrument before you shot this video? You already know my opinion, but for the benefit of those who haven't read our conversation on the other video, after I got my Chinese horn 4 1/2 years ago, and after I had been playing it for a while, my take was that it was at least 90% of the Yamaha 642 (the design that the basis of the clone) for a small fraction of the cost ($886, including shipping). My horn was first of its kind that my [university-level] teacher tried, and he agreed that it was worth much more than I paid. I'm an adult-amateur (= geezer) player, nowhere near your level, but no one who hears me knows that I'm playing a clone, unless I tell them. I'd buy an Adams if I had the jack, but for the interim, clones rule.
Thanks David! I shot the video straight away, this was supposed to be my first impression but I never posted it since I figured I'll do a comparison video with couple of other cheap horns. I assume you have JinBao? At least it fits the description :) That's the horn I will do a comparison video with. Thanks for sharing your insight brother. Best, Algirdas
in my experience with trumpets it matters if your bell was hand hammered Most cheap trumpets don't have those and they sound just fine in the lower registers but if you go really high like above high c they tend to close up yes you can learn those things just fine on a very cheap one but it just makes no fun they also tend to have bad tuning but that also happens sometimes with expensive horns so always have your teacher with you if you buy a new instrument and your not comfortable with hearing if some notes are out of tune I'd say that if you want to study music or you are a ambitious hobby musician I would at least invest around 1500-2000$ for a trumpet you dont need the Bach artisan stuff for 3500+ but your bell should be hand hammered
I need help playing this song called Klaxxon with my Euphonium and I can't play the above the staff concert A with a good sound or tone and I want to know how to fix it
Hey! It would be tricky to give you accurate answer without me seeing you play. Sorry if that is not much of a help but I don't want to give you any crappy advice. Best, Algirdas
I think they Chinese horns have finally succeeded in getting the geometry and tolerances right given computer assisted manufacturing techniques. My only remaining concerns are whether they are as consistently good from one horn to the next (probably) and whether they are as durable as an heirloom quality professional instrument. In any case, the math works- 95 percent of the capability for 50 percent (or less) of the price.
![[UNCUT] ลูกหมี-ลิลลี่ เหงียน เปิดใจฟาด ปู มัณฑนา I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 15 ก.ค.67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FKQ60Y7bJ6s/mqdefault.jpg)
I played Euphonium starting back in 7th grade and all the way through school. Marching band and symphonic concert band. I stopped and put it down after school for working and life. I have thought about my music thru the years and just never picked it back up. I am now 59 and was just thinking about it once again and bam this shows up as recommended which blew my mind. Reminded me of the beauty of this type of music again. So now I will be looking for a horn to see if I still have it in my heart. Beautiful playing, thank you and God Bless
Honestly, like many of the comments below, a “cheap” instrument might not bare the same thickness, tube length, metal etc, it can be overcome by an adept player, as well as mouthpiece selection. I’ve played on several cheap brands, one even as low as 300 dollars and although it was constructed significantly different than your common Yamaha, Jupiter, Besson or Adams euphonium, it played quite well for my skill level at that time which was around 8 years ago. I’ve seen some of the newer cheap brands and I’ve got to say, they have done quite well. Personally, a cheap horn might not be advisable for someone past a collegiate level, but for students just learning or players who can’t afford a 4,000 plus intermediate instrument, I don’t see anything wrong with learning on what’s available. Any instrument can be played beautifully, it’s just up to the determination of the player.
本当にその通りだと思います。
A good Artist can make any instrument sound good
the valves and the pistons how long before they start to hang or become slow OR LEAK the valve action is night and day on a 1000usd tuba vs besson's top model
Adams orders in China for what I’ve heard. Instruments come fully assembled. Procedure is similar to how Wessex operates: designs in Europe, orders prototypes in China, evaluates and quality controls in China, orders per (full) container. A close and prosperous partnership. Only … Wessex is open about it.
....Does cheap mean $1500 or $350?
Kung Pao Buckaroo Buffet I thought he meant 350 but...1500 ain’t cheap
@@andrewhogg8055 for a compensating euphonium, 1500 is a bargain
Kung Pao Buckaroo Buffet 1500 for a compensates euphonium that sounds good is an amazing bargain. They’re usually 6,000 to 8,000 bucks
@Super Nintendo Chalmers count yourself lucky you're not playing e-flat bass or b flat bass
@@MILKYBAR1969 I only paid $750 for my King 1241. It sounds like I paid $750 and I have played 1241s that sounded great. In a more representative test, I played a $33,000 Meinl Weston 195/2 Fafner against a $5,700 BMB J765. I know that I was pitting a rotary against a York, but I liked the BMB better. Both tubas sounded great, but I liked the sound of the BMB better. It just depends on what you need. Most of us aren't good enough to need a pro-level instrument as we won't sound like a pro no matter how good the instrument is.
I'm a 52 year old HS/MS Band director and lifetime brass player who, two months ago, bought a Mackbrass Euphonium for myself and a Mackbrass 3/4 size, 4 valve tuba for my school. At this point, I've performed with the euphonium in one Colorado Brass Band performance and two Community Symphony concerts. I've also kept the tuba away from kids so that I can both long term test it myself and let all of my adult brass buddies give it a try.
My short answer is: I was hesitant to purchase these horns because I wanted/needed to believe that the more expensive options had to be that much better. Thankfully, this has not been my experience. These JinBao horns play and look great.
I repeat - These JinBao horns play and look great. I, nor my brass buddies can find much of a reason not to buy 'em.
With the top brands and models you do get the finish sculpting and detailing that you would expect, and I understand that that can be very important to some and should not be dismissed. But, if you just want a horn that looks good and sounds great, these things are awesome. The total purchase price for both the euphonium and the tuba was less than half of a single top line euphonium. I will buy more of these horns for both myself and my school - I just can't justify the more expensive horns.
p.s. You sure play well.. Nice work...
Thank you Sir! JinBao Mack Brass and Schiller will be in the upcoming videos. Will compare this horn with JinBao. Both fantastic for the price! Will do a bit more In depth comparison soon. Thanks for sharing your experience! Best, Algirdas
Thank you for sharing your insight. Best of luck with your playing journey and feel free to let me know if you have any questions! Best, Algirdas
Do you know of any first or second hand experience with mendini double french horns? It has been over 40 years since I've played and I've always missed it. I am retired and on disability now so my dream horn is way out of my price range!
Can you post a video about the JinBao, Mack Brass, and Schillers?
as a brass and woodwind repair tech for many years my thoughts are, yes it may play ok, and lets face it a pro player can make most brands sound good, It all comes down to reliability and how long will it last. Lets face it a lot of students do not look after the instrument, in my experience the cheaper brands do not hold up to this, and lose lacquer and silver very quickly, slides rot and get stuck very easily, valve wear out or scratch easily. with woodwind, metal is either too soft that keys bend just by normal use, or in some cases way too hard that if a key bends its very hard to put back to original shape. Materials used are not always quality hence the low prices, but do agree that we pay way too much for a brand name, especially now that a lot of the so called top brands instrument are made in China.
With this in mind I will say there are some amazing Instruments out there that are made in China and Taiwan, my golden rule is google the brand, no info, stay away.
Great video, and nice playing.
I played a Hirsbrunner in college and loved it. I now have a Mack euphonium and a Wessex baritone. They ARE really good. I agree 100% that these Jin-Bao horns are good enough for 90% of the players out there.
Pretty sure the Hirs was spectacular. Not sure a college student can appreciate and respect such an instrument.
That’s the euphonium that my band director uses, it’s actually a good brand because he’s a really good musician the tone comes out amazing
What euphonium is it?
Well said! And your beautiful playing illustrates the point. I had one of the first Schiller compensating euphoniums when they first came out in 2010 or so. It played very well, but was rather unrefined with a lot of the little things, cheap feeling valve caps, noisy clanky valves, hazy finish, etc. But it played decently. I had a Wessex for a short time last year and couldn't believe the improvements they made, having fixed all of the concerns I had previously. In this amateur's opinion, it was 98% as good as the Yamaha Neo. And last month I visited my home town and played an even newer version of the Schiller that was just a couple of months old. And it was nearly as good as the Wessex....it didn't have some of the tweaks that Wessex does like the floating leadpipe. larger valve buttons, etc, but all of my old complaints about the old Schiller had been fixed. These horns have come a long way in the past 5 years!
My major instrument is tuba but I also play baritone as well. I once owned a Besson which had a great sound and was considered the world's finest until Willson came out. I then bought the best Willson I could. Since my primary instrument is tuba I used a large Shilke 60 mouthpiece on the euphomium which produced a very strong lower register on the Willson as well as an extremely powerful upper register. The last time I played either instrument is over 25 years ago so I can't speak as to the quality of current instruments. By te way, I have watched many of your videos and I really appreciate your playing.
It's actually an age old argument (same with the Mercedes vs whatever type of car) the reality comes from an engineering and production point of view and the rest is pure snobery. If an instrument is well made then that is exactly what it is; well made. The schematics for brass instruments have been around for centuries and have been improved through modern production techniques but some players will deny this. The difference between an intermediate and professional brass instrument is definitely there but to talk about "development" of machined metal is a bit ridiculous in todays modern world. A professional brass instrument costs more because it has been better (at a higher level of precision) machined and you are also PAYING for the brand, no more no less.
@Heimat: you seem to have a problem with the chinese and sound like a right nob, maybe do some homework on WHY China has become the production line for Europe and the rest of the west first before you rant off into a self righteous idiot circus .
My best advice for anyone buying a new brass instrument is to test as many as you can before you buy and stay away from the really cheap instruments but don't ignore the intermediate range
as they are really not that bad. If you are doing studio or solo work then going pro will help your sound but it's not a 100% watertight argument but for ensemble work an intermediate instrument would be fine.
Even more relevant, you get what you pay for (in regards to Chinese instruments). A $200 cornet will sound like $200, whereas a $700 cornet might sound like a good challenge for some of the multi-thousand dollar instruments.
i like the "self righteous idiot circus" part well said
Come armonizzare la melodia
There are professional trumpet players that use intermediate horns. It's ultimately the player that makes the difference. A professional horn won't make a bad player sound good. But a great player can make an average horn sound great. Professional horns only make good players sound better.
Everything changes everything - where you put weight, what tapers you use in the leadpipe and bell, even the size of the bell flare itself...
"development" typically means making instruments with different combinations until you find ones you like (and which play well in tune) - some parts will be dead ends (certain leadpipe tapers, bell tapers/flares/throats, etc) and that has to be discovered by trial and error to a certain extent.
Now sure, intermediate designs have to have this same development too, but the developer is probably prepared to cut the process shorter (or use "not quite" combinations that didn't make the final cut for the professional model)... beyond that, intermediate designs utilise the typical cost-cutting steps you'd expect - QC/QA a bit less strict, using more junior assemblers (you wouldn't believe the impact that soldering an instrument together under tension can have - it's HUGE) who cost less wages, etc...
AND! There's often only one or two intermediate models per brand - where there are a bunch of professional models and variants (per brand)... and developing/stocking different models costs the manufacturer money, so guess who's going to pay for that?
And sure, for quite a lot of players (more than would admit it) the professional grade ones aren't necessary (as the video poster states) - but for the very, very serious players there are still little handicaps that the intermediates put up that the professional models don't, and at that level that's enough to make a significant difference.
PS - the amount of actual "machining" involved is usually fairly minimal... the vast majority of the tubing is drawn to a mandrel (there are a few companies that machine leadpipes but they're very few and far between - and nobody machines bells).
I'm an old amateur; have always played cheap instruments, now play US made horns almost as old as I am. Love them, love doing it. It comes down to what you can put into them. dt
Share same feeling here brother!
Thanks for posting this! I'm a tuba and Euphonium player whose spent a lot of time on all the affordable and expensive models.
My negative experience is not in how the Chinese horns play (pitch and valve accuracy), but more in the sound, especially when playing them in ensembles. You can't catch the difference in sound and how the horn resonates until you take it into brass or wind band rehearsal. It almost feels like you lose the thickness or core to the sound once other instruments are added.
However, I will give a shout out to the John Packer line in being the first one I played that improved that problem, possibly just by changing the lead pipe. They do not feel like the other models made at Jinbao in China (Schiller, Wessex, Mack, etc) and seem to more closely match the Besson Sov.
I've enjoyed your video reviews (also very helpful to my students). Thanks so much!
Thanks a lot for sharing your feedback my friend! The horn I used in this video is actually John Packer 274 :D I like them a lot as well
I purchased a Schiller American Heritage trombone with closed-wrap F-attachment to use as a marching band horn in college. I really can't complain about it. Spare a few quirks in terms of fit-and-finish (loose slide lock, bell and slide tenon don't match very well) it's a great horn. The metal is thinner than I expected, but it's surprisingly resilient to damage. I'm satisfied with the quality enough that I'd willingly pick up some other kind of horn (like a euphonium or bass trombone) built by them in the future.
I admit I own a few euphoniums, and I was fortunate to get them for cheap. For example, I have a Besson Sovereign and a Thomann 906 GP Superior. Although, the Thomann sounds like a Prestige compared to the Sovereign, the Sovereign has a deep Besson tone that isn't 100% matched by Thomann. The Thomann does have a Besson-like tone, though. I think Thomann has one of the best tones in the horns that I own. The Sovereign does sound a bit smaller, mainly due to its being made around 1992 and has a .580 bore. Thomann 906 has a .590 bore and 12.25" bell. It also weighs about 11 lbs.
I just thought I'd add a little review! Not taking ANYTHING away from the Sovereign, but I believe the Thomann is the real deal as well as Sovereign, and it can be bought brand new for less than $2000, even including shipping and import fees. I wish more people new about it.
I'm researching the Thomann 960 but I can't get any info on the shank size - is it a large or small shank? Thanks!
I just bought an inexpensive 4 valve compensating euphonium in lacquered brass finish from a vendor in Germany. I am pretty sure it is a rebranded Jinbao EP-1150L. I have had it for a few days, and so far I am absolutely delighted with the instrument. I can find nothing wrong with the fit and finish of the instrument except for the minor issue that one has to be very carefull when screwing the valve caps onto the piston casing in order to avoid cross threading. The pistons work fine, the tuning seems fine (when compared to a tuner), and to my ear the tone quality is just fine, though I should admit that I just took up playing again after many decades of not playing, so my judgement of the tone quality should be taken with a grain of salt.
The cost of the instrument was less than $550, including case, mouthpiece, and shipping to the US.
Oddly, I found this video after watching your Packer vs Schiller video. I instantly recognized the one you're playing here, because we've been eyeing a JP274 that showed up at our local pawn shop, of all places. My son is a freshman in high school and is shifting to euphonium from trombone as his primary instrument. I played euphonium 30 years ago, so I looked at the horn and gave it a shot at the shop. Pretty good in my eye, and my son is going to try it today. It's priced at $1000, but with no case. Being a small town pawn shop, whose staff openly admitted knowing nothing about musical instruments, I'm seeing plenty of room for negotiation! Thanks for posting this video!
Glad you found the videos useful friend and hope your son enjoys the new horn!
at 12:50 right now, you play so beautifully, and it's like feelings and emotions come from the music. I'm almost sad because it's such a nice melody :) there is no way I could tell that's not a top-model instrument, you prove your point so well! keep making videos they are so helpful, even though I'm playing a cornet haha :)
Thanks for kind words brother! I'll try and do my best. Thanks so much for support, I really appreciate it. Best, Algirdas
I found dramatic (day/night) difference between an indian instrument (don't remember the brand) that would get the pistons stuck and the sound was just out of tune, to then a 4 piston Yamaha (321) and then I tried my Eastmann EEP426 and fell in love instantly. I haven't tried true professional instruments, but certainly pays to get to the 'mid level' (for me).
I'm glad you posted this. Mack Brass has a JinBao tuba that I think is beautiful, sounds wonderful, and is less than 3000! I just wish I could buy it.
Many years ago I was an Army Euphonium player. I quit that to take a dream (non-music) job.
I have since retired and after 35 years, started playing euphonium again.
I started out with a cheap $600, 4 valve horn. It had a pretty good sound, but it just wasn't very good in many other ways. It left me wanting more.
Someone suggested a Mack Brass horn and I looked at reviews. The reviews were very good. After speaking with the folks at Mack Brass, I bought one and could not be happier.
The Yamaha 642 MIGHT be a little better in some ways, but I haven't found it yet. If the Yamaha is better, I can assure you it isn't $5000 worth of better. (At least not for me.)
If we go back to that "90% of players" rule, I would bet that if you covered up the name, telling the MAck Brass from the 642, would be almost impossible.
BTW - Just for fun, the other day I tried playing an "XO". It is slightly over $2000, but it was VERY nice.
This is a very interesting topic,and one worth discussing, especially for all the majority of musicians who are not making a living professionally and are giving back to their community playing in amateur or semi-pro orchestras, bands and brass ensembles. I am about to retire after 34 years as a band director, elementary through high school. As such I have also played for as many years concurrently in community and semi-pro ensembles as a bass and tenor trombonist.
Back in those days it was always Bach, Conn, King. Yamaha or Holton and a few others as mainstay brands, though Getzen and Jupiter have made major inroads, especially in bass trombones. There was almost always little choice in the matter - get a pro horn or suffer from the mediocre student-line offerings on the market. When I bought my bass in 1998, it boiled down to a choice of a Getzen at around $2K, or a custom ordered Edwards, Shires or Kanstul at twice that price.
As a musician not making a living on my playing it was extremely difficult to justify spending the money on a custom horn. And nowadays, the stock pro offerings from these manufacturers and others have crept up in price too, making buying them often unjustifiable too.
So now comes this new crop of Chinese made brass instruments, which do seem to have stepped up significantly. Many are designed or made to specifications and licensed by well known companies. I needed a back-up horn recently when my trusty old Getzen 1062FD went down for a trigger repair and was out for three weeks. I shopped around and discovered the John Packer Rath 3320 tenor trombone being sold by reputable dealers, at about half the price of a traditional Bach, Getzen or Yamaha stock pro horn. The horn carries the JP and Rath logos, so it is licensed by them. That's a lot to live up to; I was not surprised to find that the fit and finish of this instrument to be nearly flawless, including a beautifully made hand slide, usually where corners are cut on cheap trombones. The horn's response, intonation and slotting felt like a pro horn, which it is being marketed as, but a pro horn on a budget. I haven't really found any negatives yet in the month and a half that I have had it, but time will tell. Will it hold up as play a beautifully as my 1062FD has over 20 years, who knows?
That is not say that there are not some bad actors out there. I have seen students playing on brass instruments made from China that literally fall apart in their hands after a few weeks of playing, impossible to tune, and whose metal dents just by looking at it. They also have valves and slides which corrode and freeze seemingly at will. A $99 special online gets you what you pay for, despite my repeated warnings to parents.
Thank your for making your video on this subject. I don't know what the ratio is of pro players to amateurs, but if it's 10/90, your 90% statement may be accurate. I've seen pros like Conrad Herwig and Michael Dease tearing it up on the JP Rath 230 straight tenor trombones lately, so there are some authoritative voices out there along with your own talking up these affordable alternatives.
I'm a 57 year old euphonium player who recently treated myself to my first 'owned' euphonium in many years as I was not happy with the band instrument that I was using. I bought the Conn 300 which looks virtually identical to a top end instrument but cost less than £1,200. It plays beautifully and looks stunning, too, with a mixture of silver plate and lacquer trim. The valves need a little more care to keep them working well than other instruments I have played (usually Sovereigns). The trigger works but is taking time to 'run in' and is improving every week. I haven't noticed any tuning problems, although I have to extend the 1st valve slide a little (as I notice you have on your video). Even the case is good. I'm pretty sure it is a branded version of the Chinese horn that you feature at the start of this video. I recognise my best playing days are behind me - BUT - I'm not past it, yet! And I'm really enjoyed a renewed interest in playing and practicing with this new instrument - that cost around 20% the price of a professional level instrument. No regrets and heartily recommended.
Thanks for sharing your experience my friend!
Schiller does a great job replicating high end compensating euphoniums
I did a lot of research about a year ago when preparing to write a review of a Schiller instrument. I found out that there USED to be a Schiller brass manufacturer in Germany, but that it was defunct, and nobody owned the brand name. Then I found out from some other in-the-know folks that Schiller is just a brand name attached to various Chinese made instruments, presumably because it sounds 'more legit'. So I believe that there is no "Schiller" who could be doing a good job replicating high end instruments, but instead there is apparently one or more Chinese companies that are doing good replication jobs and attaching the Schiller name to some of their product.
Annie Laurie Air Varie... I remember that piece well. :)
I had a Jupiter 3 valve baritone and it was GREAT. I now have a Yamaha $ valve euphonium and it is a much more sturdy instrument, but not that different to play.
Algirdas, I agree with you.
Have tried several instruments on the Frankfurth Musik Messe. From trumpets, via french horn, to trombone, euph.s and tubas. Last time I wanted to try Alexander and Paxman horns, but they did not attend the Messe. More Chinese companies were there. They get better each year. Btw, I have a Wessex (Jina Bao) Eb tuba - almost as good as the Bessons I played -and much cheaper.
Two years ago, I wanted to buy a used Besson Eb, but they demanded more for that one, than a new Wessex, so I just bought the Wessex. Will play it this evening (I double on french horn and tuba in a gig).
I love your playing and your videos, Algiras!
I agree. Many times a very high price gets you nothing at all. Price and quality are not locked together.
Jim Sadler ñn
THANK YOU!
This is why I bought and started to play trumpet. Less material to pay for
I remember that I have marched for a while with my high school. We had to use really cheap Chinese marching baritones and they were trash. They cost $350 but broke down alot. I always took care of them but during a rehearsal, the third valve stem came off completely! The other horn did the same thing. After seeing the Wessex review, I really wana give it a try. But that was my sour experience with cheap marching baritones.
Sorry to hear about crappy experience buddy, Wessex is not exactly as cheap as $350 but I think the quality is much better.
Wessex is great!
I agree with you.
I have had nothing but trouble with my cheap tuba. It has a beautiful sound but it has had to have so many repairs (and I take good care of my instrument) and for some reason the lead pipe is so much lower than on standard tubas. This is a serious problem ergonomically.
The tubing behind the valves is positioned higher than usual as well, and so i have to reach higher with valve hand. As a result, I have damage to my shoulder from reaching awkwardly whilst simultaneously slouching in order to reach my mouthpiece. (And propping it higher to improve my posture only makes the strain on my shoulder worse). This tuba is the worst mistake i ever made.
I still have the first and only horn I ever owned: a Yamaha YEP-321, bought in the summer of 1976 (almost 41 years ago!!), when I was 15 years old. I still play it, but only for an occasional church special number. I've been playing the horn since I was 9.
I can't tell if it's me or the horn, but I'm never quite happy with the tuning of the horn. Is this a known problem with the YEP-321, or do I need to re-tune my hearing aids? I only play with a piano with my wife of 33+ years - my only accompanist during all that time.
When I was young, I had no idea people would ever be making a living playing the euphonium. Thank you for what you're doing for young people today - those who will never have access to somebody of your talent. You give a lot away at no cost to those learning - I hope you receive some satisfaction in return. Oh, how I wished I could justify buying another horn.
Hey Don! Thanks so much for kind words and glad you find these videos useful! The non compensating horns like YEP321 definitely have tuning issues. You can buy some really nice compensating euphoniums for 800usd nowadays but on the other hand I completely understand difficulties finding reasoning to invest extra money. Thanks for sharing your feedback! Best of luck, Algirdas
Hey there! Could you do a video for the brass band players used to playing in treble clef on how to play in bass clef/concert? :)
Also, how would you describe the role of euphonium in different ensembles? I feel like I'm a concert band the Euph would blend a lot? (separate video?)
Thanks! Great video :)
Did it feel like you were having to fight the horn a little bit as far as intonation especially in the higher range?
Looking at a Wessex Festivo (hardly used from a friend) because of the arthritis in my right hand makes the traditional on top compensating euphoniums problematic on some days, others not. I own a top end baryton German made rotary 4 valve. It's an excellent horn and I get a great sound on it. It doesn't have the deep rich euphonium sound plus some community band members get upset at me because of the bell direction and I'm a strong player so I guess it's too loud for them. I sold my old Conn 24I as I just wasn't using it and it really needed some attention being 60 years old. Still in great shape. So the Miraphone ovals and upright Kaisers are nice and fill in the range with the fifth valve used are affordable but still don't have the exact sound I love on the euphonium. The other option to the Festivo is the Wilson Canadian Brass model which is rare to find used and out of the budget new if you can find one. They are heavier than the Festivo. So I'm breaking my promise to myself and buying the Festivo. I have a Jupiter XO bass trombone which I love, has an awesome sound and parts and repairs are not an issue. Jupiter is very upfront and has great customer support. I would go to far as this is a great horn at any price. My tenor trombone is US made and I like it over my previous Bach and others. It does have the free flow valve.
IMO, for anyone having trouble with their euphonium playing, testing out different mouthpieces is a cheaper route to see if that may be an issue. It is a more likely issue as well. Having a $9000 Miraphone isnt going to do you any favors if your mouthpiece isnt the right size for your mouth.
I play the flute, and through everything, cheap instruments do very well. I played a Gemeinhardt that was a C, a Yamaha that was an open-hole, and a Schiller Elite that was a standing bass. Truth be told, they all suit me just fine. The C did give me trouble, but lasted a very long time. My bass is my current instrument, and it was SO much cheaper, it plays beautifuly. It was roughly $13,000 cheaper than a Jupiter.
I've got an Etude horn I've had since high school that I'm getting back into playing. Plays well enough, but the finish sure hasn't aged well.
Yeah, that is a point.
I have a Bach Strad 72 and recently purchased a JinBao. I myself like them both. I asked a friend before getting the Jinbao and he likes them as well. I've been using it more in big bands than the Bach.
Thanks for the insight my friend! Best, Algirdas
I play a Jupiter 1120 and iam happy with it. Even the Besson players say its not a bad horn at all.
I purchased a Mack Brass Euphonium last year and I have been playing on it since. the only issue I have found in "amateur" horns that I have played is that the springs did not bounce back as fast as I would like. (I am a sophomore music performance major) i have only needed to purchase springs for my Euphonium. I am upgrading to a Wessex Dolce this fall and renting out my Mack Brass to a private student. I love my Mack Brass and it was the first Euphonium I have ever bought. it is worth it.
also, I can only hope to play like you one day. either this fall or next spring I plan on playing Harlequin as my solo piece. I just got done performing Sonata for Unaccompanied Euphonium by Fred Clinard. amazing playing. I just recently found out about you and I'm glad I did
You might be able to upgrade the springs to a compatible Yamaha set. From my understanding the Mack Brass Euphonium is modeled after the Yamaha YEP641. It's shocking how wonderful sounding these more recent Chinese brands are now producing. It appears you can achieve about 90% of the sound quality of the upper class instruments for a fraction of the price. A commonly reported downside is how the finish doesn't last as long (wearing gloves is highly recommended), and also quicker wear & tear on the valves and plastic guides and such. The good news is the instrument can still be re-plated, and there are probably some custom valve re-conditioning shops you could go to... spending a bit more money on a few years later from the purchase date.
I replaced my schiller springs with yamaha springs and the new ones were a nice improvement. Cost $14.00.
Ever heard of a Schiller Elite V compensating euphonium?
Yes, will do a review on that as well!
Matonizz thanks! I've always wondered what Schiller euphonium would be like but I've found no reviews
Matonizz can't wait for it!
That is the euphonium I play on :).
I used to play on a cheap cheap mack french horn. You can make a beautiful tone on them but you needed a good mouthpiece can use cheap ones on it. The only problem is the intonation and tuning in general. There was alot of movement in my bell when I had to play smooth pretty pieces but other than that they are just beautiful sounding instruments in the right hands
I will remember back in the late 70s early 80s, I was in my high school band and we got a chance where some of the NC Orchestra members come and played with us. I was playing trombone with one of those rent to own Conn trombones that had the bell soldered back on and was a total piece of junk. I was sitting by this trombonist with his Bach Strad. He was playing and it was the most glorious sound. I told him I couldn't wait until I could afford a horn like he was playing. It sounded so much better than mine. He asked to see my horn, and took a few minutes to clean my slide and put the slide grease on that he was using and sprayed it down. He then played the same piece with my horn. I was in shock and awe!!! That he was able to make the same glorious sounds come from my beat up little horn as he did his professional horn. Then I said something totally stupid! " What kind of slide grease was that?"
He made his point though that a good player can make any instrument sound better. He said to practice more, listen to the tone and use more air. Is a cheap horn like a JP or a Shiller going to be as good for professional use, where they are looking for tone, probably not!
As for me I am wanting to get back to playing so that I can play in church. back in the 80s I did finally step up to the same Bach that the Orchestra member was playing, and it served me well through high school and College. Then I stopped playing and sold it. I do think that a cheaper horn will be the route for me at this juncture.
Awesome! How long have you been playing?
Заслушался - так здорово! Не знал, что этот инструмент может играть так нежно.
This shows, just like the Violin man, that when you are a virtuoso, you can make a paper cup sound wonderful.... It does show that hard work is more important than an expensive instrument.
Where do i find A. Kačanauskas sheet-music.
Would be so happy to play to my friends. 😊
im a euphonium player
a standard euphonium
3 valve
i do want a compensating one tho
and a marching baritone of my own also
Honestly, if you told me that was a Besson sovereign, I would have believed you
I know :D Except for it's actually much more pocket friendly :)
Rip xd, i play a sovereign.
2nd hand one to be fair.
Agreed, one would have to be familiar with the player to even know where to compare. That says a lot right there.
Sorry, what euphonium are you playing?
Hey, i found an Austin Euphonium at $325, it sounds very ilogic but i had never tried what would you recommend?
I could see using the reference of "cheap" among the Chinese knock-offs 5-10 years ago. But with the current Jimbao (and other) line-ups they are coming out with are shockingly great. I would change the term to "inexpensive"... as that is a much more appropriate term now :-)
it is not necessarily the sound that is the problem with the cheap tubas but the valves and the pistons how long before they start to hang or become slow the valve action is night and day on a 1000usd tuba vs besson's top model
I spent less than 500 on my non-compensating euphonium. In the upper registers, it's sweet. Going down from the middle, it gets a bit muddy between E2 and C2, then recovers for some nice pedal tones down to B0. I have had to play a half pitch lower than written to fix issues with a sustained C2. I am looking to upgrade eventually, but for most pieces in a community orchestra, it's fine.
you are right!! but.....there is still a great different standaard of quality between the cheap instruments. but some of them are pretty good.
You are absolutely correct, I don't play amateur horn in concerts myself because there is a difference. However, when I started testing some of the amateur horns this year I was shocked by the quality improvements they have made. I agree with you're point though and that's why I always tell that buying an expensive horn won't hurt your playing but if you're a kid who played for 5 years or so you will unlikely be able to exploit that extra 10 or whatever percent that high end horn gives you, so why not just get a horn which would be 5,6,7 times cheaper and would be a great fit for you. Thanks for sharing your opinion brother! Best, Algirdas
I bought a jean paul tr 430 for 350 and I love it.
when I was cleaning a cheap trumpet the lacquer started peeling off in strips so that was fun
Yeah, I see how the lacquer could be easily underworked on cheap horns. Even the plating sometimes is not that great. This point I could definitelly agree on with you buddy!
$1500? what about the chinese brass instruments that cost 100 or $200, there's a lot of mixed reviews on them.
he played a nazar ali euph (india amazon brand) this guy can polish a turd.
Mendini by Cecilio have really good trumpets
For this price range USD$ 120 to USD$ 200 , buy JinBao (the most established brand probably the largest in China their instrument came with quality cert) i bought a plain cheapest Bb trombone from JinBao and it is good i was very surprise with the smooth slide i expect from a USD$ 1K equivalent instrument (but tonal quality of course is not comparable to a USD$ 2K yamaha but does not sound cheap). I was wondering why they ship only valve oil instead of slide grease and base on the well built slide grease is not necessary. They have performance grade that cost much more but for a start to pickup learning instrument can buy this brand with confidence as they have a reputation to uphold.
@@chapstic593 LMAO!
@@sweepohquek4463 good to know. I have been thinking about getting an affordable trombone. Thanks for the info.
Just Perfect exemplar. Would you care to comment on how this brand stands up to wear & tear "if" you still use them ?
My friend who is also in high school bought his horn for under 1500 and it works great for him, he plans on using it in college as well as high school
Was it a Wessex Dolce? I have one of those, and it's a great intermediate horn :)
I have two Schiller low brass horns I would put them up against any similar designed horn.
I will review Schiller soon, their JinBao horn is indeed very similar to this one I use in the video :) Great horns they make nowadays, thanks for sharing thoughts my friend! Best, Algirdas
A while ago I found myself playing 1st baritone in a brass band for 1 gig. I preferred the Wessex 4 valve bari over the Besson Prestige!
I have tried several Wessex euphos. Didn't like any of them.
The Wessex bass trom plays nice, but I found it really hard to hold.
Well I'm starting lessons in this wonderfull instrument and looking to purchase one and figure 2000 bucks besson's ones instead a 800usd of another brand. Still a student brass no compensating but think it Will accompany me several years. I know have to learn the basics but a well madestudent horn maybe it's the choice. What do You think?. Another thing it's I'm almost 40 so Will take care of it like an adult, so... Don't know if this a thing... But it's something I thinked.
I liked the sound of the horn. I have been a euphoniumist since the mid-60s. I am NOT a professional, but I would say definitely in the intermediate level. I do not have a degree in euphonuum. I have played a number of cheap and better quality horns. I have been invited to play in ensembles for stidents completing their graduate degrees in conducting, etc. In most cases, at least of the better horns I have played, *I* am the limiting factor, and not the horn. I would definitely love to play a horn of the quality demonstrated in this rehearsal video.
I really agree with your premise, Algirdas. I might enjoy being able to say I had played on a top level Meinl Weston or Petersburg, but I can't claim I need one to do my best. As @restlessinvention mentioned, there is definitely an amount of the price that IS paying for the name in addition to what you are paying for the higher precision in building the horn. People who have the money also may indulge in a little ego in saying I play a "TOPLEVELBRAND" horn, even if their actual skill level would not demand such a horn. For instance, I know my own skill level. and in all honesty, a very expensive Meinl Weston or Schiller would not make me a better player. More and more practice will make me a better player.
Those out of tunes notes are because of the horn ? Or do you play the same with a high end horn ? You play great, don't get me wrong, I could never play like that.
1&2 valve combos is slightly muted and less open the 3rd valve and some times 1, 2,&3 is way off pitch. The horn definitely needs the thumb driven tuning slide. I know its proactice but some times I am hearing notes that are way off pitch. I don't have perfect pitch so they must be pretty obvious if I can detect them.
Very nice!!! Would you reecomends to buy a new chinese horn instead of a "high brand" used one?
Tricky one, really depends on the condition. High end is still high end but the problem with euphoniums they wear out extremely quick so you need to make that you don't find flat notes, worn out valve guides unless the horn uses cheap replaceable valve guides like besson and sterling and bends in the pipes (not dents but rather bends)
I am a trombonist who bought the JP 174 Euphonium to double on an ensemble at my college. It gets the job done and by no means am I a great Euphonium player, but it was worth the $700 I got it for. I will most likely upgrade to the Jp 274 or the Wessex Dolce in the coming years. Great video, thanks for this showcase!
Hi Ryan - please let me know which one you ended up with. We are also trying to decide between the JP274 and Wessex Dolce. There is another video by Matonizz that compares the JP274 with the Schilling Elite. For me, it was no question... the JP274 was the clear winner both on the sweet dark tone but also how SUPER QUIET the valves were! I couldn't believe the difference between the "virtually invisible" sound (or lack of) of the valves' movements of the JP model. I hope the Wessex Dolce is also as quiet. I do know that JP is Chinese, but does not use the Jimbao stencils. I also heard mixed reports (NOT REVIEWS/FEEDBACK mind you) regarding if the Wessex is, in fact, Jimbao or not. It might only be Jimbao in certain parts, but not as a whole and they do report to do a thorough Q/C check and test every instrument before it leaves their facility. Wessex is also using an improved finish process by using machinery that makes them more blemish free (although some still report to have some minor blemishes on occasion). The finish on most of the JP's are reported to be as pristine as the higher make brands, but I really do like that Silver + Gold accent option appearance of the Wessex. The Schilling had quite a "brassy" type brighter sound, which was not my preference but I completely understand the need for that type of sound depending on one's application. I'm guessing the Wessex might be somewhere in between the dark/sweet JP and the bright/brassy Schilling. If you also buy into the controversial placebo-effect reports about finish types one could choose a lacquered brass Wessex to achieve an even closer sound to the JP. But everyone seems to prefer shiny silver over the "old school" look of Brass from the student / high school days. While silver plating is more expensive, make no mistake... the price point is MUCH more likely correlated with its popularity - in similar fashion as kitchen appliances.
Sounded better than my high schools euphoniums. They were brass garbage bins. Great director, bad funding. We had to work twice as hard for competitions, but it showed. We always placed high competitively. When I went to college, it was like the euphoniums played themselves.
What did you actually say about cheap instruments?
I have found that a cheep french horn is harder to play dramatically so when you try to play louder but I am comparing student instruments to bottom level perfesional
I have a JP174s and that was 1500 and is a fantastic instrument, the sound is great, I think it suffers a bit with intonation but great really. Now I have played on a prestige and it's so much easier to play especially with range and intonation, I find with the JP in comparison I have to put a bit more effort in but love the instrument
This was my experience playing horns of different caliber back in high school. Could I sound good on both the entry-level cornet and the Bach Stradivarius? Yes. Were both equally easy? No, not really. I once felt a huge difference between two French horns, but I've forgotten their makes/models. This was all circa 2010
I've played euphonium for about fifteen years. I own one of the two I play now! And yes, It was cheap! Not in quality, but cost It is a silver plated King! It sounds great! The one I own take a lot of air to make a sound so much that my neurosurgeon told me not to play it because it could cause seizures! So, one of my doctors, whom I once played with in a small church orchestra loaned me his euphonium, which was a lot smaller to plat in it's place, It's only about one octave higher than the King euphonium I have, but I can still hit some pedal tones with it. I miss being able to play it and I miss playing the trumpet as well! The doctor said "no way" to playing the trumpet! If that doesn't cause seizures, you will surely pass out from lack of oxygen! When I completely recover from my stroke, I will play them both again! Thanks for sharing this video on TH-cam!
anyone know how a yamaha-201 compares to other euphoniums?
My 160€ trumpet still sounds and works good after 4 years .I learned on a 80€ trumpet and it wasn't very good very dull sounding but the other one sounds perfect "FOR ME"
A slight loss in tone in the upper part of the midrange. And yet, the high range is surprisingly good and the F low range is even better. So yes, I believe this would suffice for most college level players (most will be band directors, or composers,etc, if they continue in music post college). So yes, you've made your case. That said, the other factor to consider is how well will it age. But that can't be judged from here. I can say that my Besson Euphonium is close to 50 years old. It's suffered some dings (most from before I got it in 1985), but it's still in great shape. I've replaced the springs 3 timed and the pads are only now being replaced; admittedly, that should have been done decades ago. The welds are solid, no serious corrosion. 95% of the silver plate is good. The valves are not distorted, and it's quite smooth on the action. The tone is consistent throughout; even though I'm a bit rusty.
Is the 4th valve as quiet and smooth as valves 123?
Sufficient for MOST who read/listen.
Skills of the player and the mouthpiece can make huge difference too.
ps...
Was that a Gershwin piece in the video?
I'll be making the move to a Wessex in a year or so when I get the funds together. What would you recommend for mouthpiece size on the euphonium? I realize this often comes down to individual preference. Just looking for something to start with. I'm moving from a 90+ year old baritone horn with 6 1/2 AL mouthpiece. Thanks!
Hey Tony, in terms of the standard size, it would be 4 on Dennis Wick, 5 on Schillke or Parker, those are the most common ones. I used this size for most of my playing years. Hope that helps my friend. Best, Algirdas
I've been using a Roy Benson Chinese-made trombone for the past year and a half, and I have to say it's served its purpose well so far. I'm not a professional musician, nor am I even a student; I just play in a couple concert bands and orchestras in my hometown, and my good old Roy Benson hasn't let me down yet. Pretty good for a $700 USD trombone.
On the flipside though, I do own a generic Chinese alto trombone (it bears the Roy Benson name but I'm convinced they just bought the rights to it), and it isn't nearly as well put together as the tenor one. So I guess the main thing that separates reputable brands from cheaper ones isn't necessarily build quality, but quality control and consistency across models (or even within the same model).
jr lepage I agree. I got a fantastic fully wooden oboe for about $1500, which is great for its price and I have to say, the quality was pretty good. The only complaint I had about it is that it's a fully auto, making it hard to fix when a hole got clogged. I've also seen a lotttt of Chinese oboe fails, so I guess I'm just really lucky.
I used a yamaha student model alto sax. which I bought for 300 in junior high school, and used high school and all 8 years of college. no one ever knew it was a cheap horn until I told them and I mean everyone. even a local Philharmonic conductor. let's just say used to live in the LA county.
This is a beautiful recital! You have definitely proven your point!
What is the instrument?
I only have a around $3,000 instrument and it works perfectly
Fala irmão tudo bem, muito lindo sua apresentação Deus abençoe 😍😍😍👏👏👏.
gostaria de saber se vocês fazem encomenda para o Brasil.
Love the tone of this instrument and looking to buy a new one can you tell me what make this euphonium is?
It's JP274s. Check the link bellow for comparison video:
th-cam.com/video/e-OSpMLgN5o/w-d-xo.html
Hope this helps!
Thank you 😊 I'm always getting told about not buying cheap instruments cause they don't last long 🤷 but I think I'm going to buy it 😁
Obviously you have more skill than I ever did. That doesn't change the love of music that has to go with it. You obviously love playing. You have no reason to slant your opinion either way. I hope you have plenty of success in the future and keep playing your music!
Have you had any experience with
mendini double french horn?
Whats the slow melody piece at 8 minutes in?
I play a Jupiter student horn in the local community band; I only paid 544$ for it. Oh, I've been playing for thirty years.
To get a compensating euphonium for $1500 is a miracle! I have searched WWBW they all are around $5,000! If it's a foreign brand we have no way to compare it. But the video of this instrument is beautiful well in tune. (but there is too much reverb in the studio for me to hear accurately)
I played tuba in high school, but I never owned my own instrument, I rented one from the school. I would like to own my own tuba, but the only way it can happen is on the cheap.
In my opinion, the mouthpiece makes more difference than the horn, given that the horn is decent to start with. I play a Werel.
What advice do you have for getting a high note on a Horn
Keep the embouchure very centered but relaxed. Close your lips sufficiently and makes sure they don't open too much or slide away from centering. Blow faster air along with it. Hope this helps my friend!
Hello, I play on lacquer Mack Brass euphonium. I've had it for 3 years of highschool I still plan to use it for a couple years of college (I'm a Music Ed Major). I'm currently a freshman so the horn is coming up to 4 years old. I think the horn is definitely worth its price for when I got it. It has gotten me through many performances and rehearsals and such. Mack Brass offers really nice horns but there are some things I personally dislike. My horn is far to heavy for me. It feels like I'm lifting a giant weight when I try to play which makes it rather uncomfortable. I've held a besson prestige 2051 and a Yamaha 642 and neither weighed as much as my Mack. The valves are also very stiff. I care for my horn and even brought it to music shops to get looked at it and deep cleaned. However, the valves are still extremely stiff and they couldn't do anything to really fix it. This makes playing fast runs and music more difficult than it really should be. The Mack euph holds good intonation and I know it's also affected by how I play but for me, an E natural on the staff (bass clef) is very flat as well as the A natural below. It doesn't blow as openly as I'd like it to but it's still good. Other than those things, I think the horn is very good. it produces a nice dark sound and can sing in the high register. The low register is a bit stuffy but not too bad. I'm definitely going to look into a professional horn for my later years in college. But you can't beat the price for Mack Brass. I'm glad I got it and will definitely tell others about it.
I would get a professional horn like a Besson or Sterling. But I'm really tight on money at the moment because of school. I'll be playing my Mack euphonium until I can save up money over the next couple years.
Hey, thanks so much for detailed feedback, I'm sure people will find this comment very useful. Best of luck, Algirdas
Perhaps instead of asking if you could get 5x better sound with a more expensive instrument, the better question would be, do you have have work harder to get a good sound with a cheap instrument?
It is the skill of the musician which is most important
First of all, AWESOME playing! How much time did you have to familiarize yourself with the instrument before you shot this video?
You already know my opinion, but for the benefit of those who haven't read our conversation on the other video, after I got my Chinese horn 4 1/2 years ago, and after I had been playing it for a while, my take was that it was at least 90% of the Yamaha 642 (the design that the basis of the clone) for a small fraction of the cost ($886, including shipping). My horn was first of its kind that my [university-level] teacher tried, and he agreed that it was worth much more than I paid. I'm an adult-amateur (= geezer) player, nowhere near your level, but no one who hears me knows that I'm playing a clone, unless I tell them. I'd buy an Adams if I had the jack, but for the interim, clones rule.
Thanks David! I shot the video straight away, this was supposed to be my first impression but I never posted it since I figured I'll do a comparison video with couple of other cheap horns. I assume you have JinBao? At least it fits the description :) That's the horn I will do a comparison video with. Thanks for sharing your insight brother. Best, Algirdas
That quality of playing on a completely strange horn makes my mind go oogly-boogly!
Yes, I have a JinBao, stamped Schiller.
in my experience with trumpets it matters if your bell was hand hammered
Most cheap trumpets don't have those and they sound just fine in the lower registers but if you go really high like above high c they tend to close up
yes you can learn those things just fine on a very cheap one but it just makes no fun
they also tend to have bad tuning but that also happens sometimes with expensive horns so always have your teacher with you if you buy a new instrument and your not comfortable with hearing if some notes are out of tune
I'd say that if you want to study music or you are a ambitious hobby musician I would at least invest around 1500-2000$ for a trumpet you dont need the Bach artisan stuff for 3500+ but your bell should be hand hammered
I need help playing this song called Klaxxon with my Euphonium and I can't play the above the staff concert A with a good sound or tone and I want to know how to fix it
Hey! It would be tricky to give you accurate answer without me seeing you play. Sorry if that is not much of a help but I don't want to give you any crappy advice. Best, Algirdas
I think they Chinese horns have finally succeeded in getting the geometry and tolerances right given computer assisted manufacturing techniques. My only remaining concerns are whether they are as consistently good from one horn to the next (probably) and whether they are as durable as an heirloom quality professional instrument. In any case, the math works- 95 percent of the capability for 50 percent (or less) of the price.
What is the most affordable euphonium you can buy that has great sound?
If you're looking under $2000 I'd say either JP274 or one of JinBao euphoniums (Wessex, Schiller, Mack Brass).