Thanks Brandon for mentioning if people are already in the Canon line up such as me. I have 15 - 35 F2.8, 28-70 F2.0 , 70-200 F2.8. I wanted to do 4k video with no crop and no overheating. Was going to switch to Sony a7S iii but didn't pulled the trigger as I will lose profit if I switch now. Great video! keep it up!
Just got my Canon C400 yesterday. Blown away so far. It's freaky good. I've got a bunch of RF. Happy dog. BTW I hope B&H hooked you up with some affiliate ching. I may grab a C80 down the road. Gonna do some C70/C400 color matching today. Love this channel. Fun and light. Canon won 2024 without any doubt. All the Canon bashing I had to listen to from every direction is now a thing of the past. I fully agree with Brandon, the fifth Canon drop has to be a very high level all of all cameras. Gotta be. The cameras should deliver a top notch sharp look and they should make the lens deliver the retro look.
Amazing!! If I just wanted to operate the c400 with the side grip and the monitor mounted directly on the box without the top handle to keep things as minimal and portable as possible, is it pretty manageable and not too heavy?
@@LukeSchaeferFilms I haven't gotten near a gimbal with it yet. I will. But I'd try to mount the handle w/a rosette mount and monitor with longer USBC cables to the gimbal so that it's the camera and lens on the gimbal. I'd use a 30BP battery and 35mm lens. Right now I have the 24-105 2.8 lens on it. Light is not a word that comes to mind. But like iI said, a smaller lens would be nice for that use.
Sweet! Do you maybe also own an Atomos Shogun (or comparable type) and know if the SDI recording trigger works with it? As in if I press the recording button on the C400 it starts recording internally as well as the Atomos starts recording? 🙌
The GH7 has a dual gain conversion sensor. I was told that dual gain conversion is an Arri pattent. You can do it only if Arri says "ok". We know that Lumix has been talking to Arri lately. (Arri log liscensing)
@@colinthomas2525 - Yes it does. Its a Sony IMX410 with a low 0db and a high 0db. This is a dual native ISO/gain sensor. What Arri, Canon and Lumix GH7 does is a dual gain conversion sensor readout. This has nothing at all to do with dual native ISO. Dual gain conversion puts two analog preamps on each photosite. It produces two voltages per read cycle and bins them together in to one HDR value. You are talking about something completely different.
I love that in Australia C80 comes with a 5 year warranty. I had 2x Ursa Mini Pro G2 sensor failures less than 2 years after purchase and Sony FX3 Bluetooth module failing just after warranty period expired. Also I agree - if only Canon gave C80 Cfexpess B it would be the the most compelling camera. Nonetheless, once i test it I'll most likely get this cam.
I don't think it's fair to say Canon doesn't have lenses right now. That new 28-70 2.8 looks awesome. The primes are fantastic the 24. 1.8 the 35 1.8 are AMAZING and image stabilized, no other brand is making lenses like that.
Great episode guys! I had wanted a c70 but the softer 4k held me back for future proofing myself. I picked up a Komodo OG and then I wanted a b cam. Looked at Nikon and c80 but ultimately went for a second Komodo OG from Brandon lol let’s see if I end up regretting that when I run out of hard drive space 😅
if you want cinematic footage, that true Hollywood look with a digital camera no comparison to GHX100ii, its a medium format camera for photo but what they have done with video is mind blowing. It's the closest thing to Ari Alexa. The FLog is god sent, you do not even need raw its so clean and detailed.
Theres people using the RF 24-105 f2.8 on a camera like the Komodo X. But where it holds them back is the lack of AF. This is where the C400 shines regardless of the KX price drop. Sure KX has 16bit raw and is a dream to work with. But until we see further, reliable enhancements, it’s definitely a “choose your poison” type of situation.
Great commentary fellas! I personally don’t think Canon shot themselves in the foot. The C400 has a different audience. Every production can’t use a C80 in their workflow. Rental houses would choose the C400 all day. But the options are fantastic! Both great cameras and I can’t wait to use them both on projects.
Great discussion. While I don’t need a super decked-out cinema camera (as I do mostly photo, but do some video as well), just give me a canon r6IIc with a built-in fan so that it doesn’t overheat in 4k60 and I’d be super happy.
There’s a select market where people are focused on image quality regardless if they’re on set or not. Even run and gun. If you’re the type to say shooting 4K is enough for me, you’re not focused on image quality. If you’re shooting 8 bit or 10bit and saying it’s enough for me, this isn’t you. I’m talking about shooting everything in RAW 12 bit and getting the best image. Using lenses that can keep up and retain the information necessary to bring out the best of the sensor. I have a R5C with a 24-105 f2.8 and RF 35 1.4 Along with some vintage lenses. Autofocus is HUGE. The fact you can use a C400, get all the flavors of codec you can possibly want or need with no conversations saying “oh I can’t do that”. Using the best RF glass and the latest AF. C400 is the obvious choice.
I’m seriously considering the C80 as a step up from my MFT mirrorless cameras, especially after waiting years for an AG-AF101 update! Since I’ll have to move to a new system regardless, the triple ISO and built-in ND filters are the main reasons I’m leaning toward the C80-it seems like the perfect upgrade from mirrorless. Oh, and doesn’t the GH6-7 have a DGO sensor, or whatever the DR Boost?
Yes, the GH7 has DR boost (Panasonic's equivalent of DGO). The GH6 has a more limited version of it (only active from 2000 ISO and up). The GH7 captures more DR than APSC cinema cameras like the FX 30 and is only 1/2 a stop behind FF cameras like the FX3, S1H, C500ii.
Is it okay for me to jump in and get the c400 even though I don’t work on sets and so lots of solo run and gun gigs? I’m a hybrid shooter I make good money with my photography as well as video and right now I just use my r5 for both. I could continue to keep getting by with my r5 or maybe add an r5c. The more portable and ready to use form factor of the c80 appeals to me but I hate the idea of no cf. People keep telling me to get the c80 but something in me is telling me to get c400. Can I have your input here! 🙏🏼🙌🏼
@@LukeSchaeferFilms if it pays of itself, yes! The C400 is way more future proof giving you all the connections you may need for the future. Also, more choice in compressions and FPS is a big reason going with the C400. One detail very few mention is the form factor. With the C80 you’re stuck with this DSLR body that’s pretty hard moving around without rigging. And there goes the smaller size out the window. The C400 can be made into any type of camera thanks to the modular screen and grip. I hate to talk about this but it’s important - you simply look so much more professional with a proper camera such as the C400, clients simply appreciate it more. It means a lot for them, and makes you look and feel better. The C80 people are often in wedding and smaller productions. The people using the C300/400/500 are usually above that doing more serious productions. Simply put: the C400 does everything the C80 does and much more - get the C400 and you’re good for many years to come.
@@LukeSchaeferFilms If you are using the R5 and you like the CF Express, as I do, You will hate having to buy 300 megabytes per second minimum cards and then still get SD card too slow. That is my experience with the C70. I bought the best cards I could and every now and again they still give me an error. Fatal era to include only SD cards... But I do understand the necessity
17:02 C400. You are correct people who want it like me would use it for very specific things. We would use it together with C500 mark two, we would use Genlock with the LED volume - we would also use the power zoom lens port to put larger Cinema zoom such as the 17-120. For live events where you have multicam filming, Genlock like would be excellent paired with auto clear scan mode. Since we already have Canon R5, and Canon C500 Mark twos, the CF express on the C400 makes perfect sense. Regarding recommending Canon to non-Canon users I probably wouldn’t do it so easily. It really just depends on your application. Sony is still doing excellent in the documentary space, so is Nikon and Panasonic. And now with the Pyxis, you really don’t have a bad option four single owner operators. At this point, you’re just deciding what kind of form factor you want and need. If you want built in ND, SDI, full frame, 6K for better 4K - I would say the C80 now finally competes with the Sony FX6 (and now with black magic raw it’s gonna be an interesting battle)
I’m okay with software limitations to keep people from buying the c80 over the c400 but permanently crippling the c80 with dual sd cards really limits the enhancements Sure they gave the c70 raw because they were able to pull more out of the cards But they are already pulling 2x+ write speeds to shoot 6k30. No way it’ll ever get 6k60 On the other hand the c400 can keep going if they want
Between Canon and Sony, I don't see a substantial difference in their corporate approaches. Both companies see the "stills" interchangeable lens cameras now as hybrids, and both companies also look at what might be a "cinema" market. Neither company is limiting the current products so they cannot overlap from one market to the other, because they know that the customers are not going to limit their usage that way.
Love this podcast! I've spent untold hours researching c80/c400, cages for both etc. Totally agree with your hopes for a smaller FX3/R5C version with this new sensor. I'm predicting a C600 next year. Full frame DGO, dual CF Express type B cards. Probably somewhere between $15,000-20,000. And after all that, this broke videographer will probably just get another R5C 😂
To clarify the DGO sensor tech a bit (and blackmagic doesn't have it in any of their cameras). Canon's implementation is unique. It decodes each photo diode (since their are already 2 of them on each sensor with dual pixel AF) with a different A?D converter setting for each photo diode. However, from what I have read, it's still only 1 A/D converter. Arri on the other hand, uses two discrete A/D converters on every photosite, converting the signal flow ealier in the chain. It means the circuitry is a lot bigger, consumer double the power, and creates more heat. It does mean, however, that the scan time on the Alexa is faster than Canon. Canon has innovated well with these new BSI Stacked Sensors in the C80 and C400 since they are still dual pixel auto focus, so it's likely that a DGO version of this sensor may be on the table.
The best camera in canon line up is R5C. Other than no direct clog 2 and annoying micro cdmi, it offers pretty much everything high end cinemas offer at much cheaper price
The great positioning of the c80 and c400 is two fold. One is now you can have a matching a and b cam setup. They have the same sensor and essentially the same setup. It's not like the c70 where you wondered what paired with it. The R5C is full frame. It doesn't have clog2. Etc etc. The second part is now you have an upgrade path that didn't force you to leap so far.
How does the R5 ii compare to the C80 from a pure image quality perspective? That question has me contemplating canceling my c80 order and getting a 2nd r5 ii especially since I'm a hybrid shooter. R5 gives me 8k 60 raw and can shoot SRAW when concerned about file size
@@PizzlesTechTime Yea, I have a feeling thats a hardware related issue in the HDMI port itself. The c70 didn’t have raw originally on release and I believe the intention could have been to never have it. That is …until they did. I hope that the usb-c on the c80 is fast enough to allow external SSDs down the line. That might allow us to record raw 6k 60p raw without the need of an Atomos recorder and Prores Raw. But knowing canon it’s unlikely.
6K60 made me grab the C400. (The camera is stunning thus far BTW) I thoroughly enjoyed using my C70 but was slightly frustrated the IQ wasn't as delicious as my R3 video files. So the FF BSI on the C400 is a dream. Of course the C80 appeals to me (and I still want one) but definitely don't regret sticking with the C400 because 60FPS-ALL-DAY for the way I shoot. Though, I'm a niche shooter - an extreme hobbyist who shoots birds. For most people I definitely think the C80 will be the new C70. Super solid camera that will only grow in popularity over time.
Coming from a C70 and R3 I completely agree, the C70 had a great looking image but the image quality was mush compared the the R3. I also really missed the adjustable grip that I had with my old C200 so opted for the C400, I'm absolutely loving it so far!
Speculating on the CF Express B slot. I know it's on the R5C, but maybe on the C70 / C80 it was just too much heat generation, which would mean a bigger fan and worse battery life. I THINK, it's really hard to know for sure. Because the R5C records to it without overheating. So it's really hard to know. Or they just couldn't fit it, it's hard to know for sure. I would still love if they made a blackmagic style EVF using USBC, that would be next level and fit on the C400 so well.
💯 percent, my mind was fixed on getting a C80 until I realized Canon sabotaged this camera by limiting 6k to 30fps and no CF express B card slots 😢 Dumb move Canon!
I mean if they did not do that it would cannibalize the c400. I mean it almost 80% already does. While I understand that decision it should have been cut in a different department. CF Express B should be mandatory in 2024
Canon could never remove ND filters after the C70. It is in my opinion the main reason the C70 is desirable still today. It's not the sensor size obviously
I traded in my GH5 about 4 months ago got the R6 Mark II. I decided to never open the box returned it and the only camera that made sense to get was the C70. I was looking for a B cam but I ended up getting technically my A cam now and R5C is my hybrid camera. Starting some commercial work this week and I am souped.
I'm confused basically I have plan of getting R6 mark 2 just 4 months used with RF 24-105 4L and RF 100 2.8 + 256 GB card 300MB/s In 3465 USD. On the other hand R5mark2 is 4265 USD. I also don't have any lens. There are 2 options first is buy the 2 lens with R62 or 2nd option is R52 with Rf50 1.8... later on I'll upgrade my lens 24-105.. is it worth to sacrifice more money. I want 4,5 years future safe. If you're in my place what you'll do?? Is it good offer or suggest me any other option!!
@@iabdulhaseeb I would have to say it depends on what you are shooting? Are you going to be doing a lot of 4K60P recording? You can only record 4K60 in Long GOP on the R6 Mark II. Also if you are going to be doing a lot of sports photography I think the better body would suit you much better. I personally only shoot an intra frame because long GOP needs proxies to edit on my I-9 build. What is your use case?
@@PizzlesTechTime I want to target small restaurants and small businesses for social media + graphic designing and products photography, as I have planned to give free 30 sec, 1 min reels for Snapchat, tiktok and Instagram. Just to build my portfolio on Instagram and other platforms. Plus I'll do street photography as I'm living an expat in Saudi Arabia.
@@PizzlesTechTime I want camera for 4,5 years!! This is my 13 months savings so I'm really really confused. Wanted to buy R52 but can't buy L glass lenses.
@@iabdulhaseeb Well there are many things to consider and if I personally was buying a camera for hybrid shooting I would want the newest camera but having the 100 mm macro would be really great for food shots. Also that camera has ibis so you would be able to get away with some handheld stuff. I would say if money is a big issue you need to get the most for your money. Also please keep in mind that you will need a pretty powerful computer to edit these files. Even the photos are relatively difficult to edit depending on the program. So when I buy a camera I never think about the extra things I may need. Maybe you can find an R5 Mark II used also. I wish you the best of luck
Awesome talking points guys! IMO a Canon FX3 like an R6iii or R6c would be amazing! And totally agree with you about camera image character - More camera companies should start building out look libraries similar to what ARRI have (And RED, Panasonic etc) to offer shooters more versitile in camera / post options for 'character' without needing to go to a colourist for projects where that's not possible. As for a DGO full frame... anything is possible but IMO an 8k high end camera makes more sense right now / short term. I think CLOG 2, from what I can tell (I could be wrong), is already coming up against the max information it can hold unless you shoot RAW on the C70 / 300mkiii from our very, very brief tests. So without CLOG4 IDK how high it is on their priorities right now given that most their modern high end CLOG2 cameras are finally matching at approx ~16 stops (according to them). They'd also sacrifice rolling shutter which larger sensors are already worse at than the S35 sensors that 'needed' DGO to match / pass full frame dynaic range while keeping acceptable rolling shutter. But we'll see either way sometime eventually!
I'm confused basically I have plan of getting R6 mark 2 just 4 months used with RF 24-105 4L and RF 100 2.8 + 256 GB card 300MB/s In 3465 USD. On the other hand R5mark2 is 4265 USD. I also don't have any lens. There are 2 options first is buy the 2 lens with R62 or 2nd option is R52 with Rf50 1.8... later on I'll upgrade my lens 24-105.. is it worth to sacrifice more money. I want 4,5 years future safe. If you're in my place what you'll do?? Is it good offer or suggest me any other option!!
@@iabdulhaseeb It sounds like you don’t have much experience to be buying a near top of the line camera. I’d think hard about blowing that amount of money on a camera at this stage when what you might need is more practice first. Unless you shoot video or need to crop a LOT you probably won’t notice a huge difference between the two and lenses are imo more important to the image these days. Id also strongly consider Sony as a new buyer because there are so many more lenses and cheaper options as well as a huge used market.
@@ShaneVanLitz I don't have any gear now .. I used to have 5dmark3 in 2013 -2019... But I changed my field as I am currently working in the restaurant business industry. I want to target small restaurants and small businesses for social media and products photography, as I have planned to give free 30 sec, 1 min reels for Snapchat, tiktok and Instagram. Just to build my portfolio on Instagram and other platforms. Plus I'll do street photography as I'm living an expat in Saudi Arabia. I belong to Pakistan.
People being hung up on no DGO feels like a marketing ploy. Id give up half a stop all say for full frame, triple base iso and a better read out speed. If the DGO was so great everyone else woulda copied it by now.
Went from pre ordering the C400 then i chanceld the c400 and orderd the C80 now im picking up my C400 next week xD Issues with the C80 = Dual SD card... 512gb V90 wich is needed to record all formats costs 780 EURO, for my work i would need atleast 4 of them so thats around 3k euro.. then i rather pay 500 euro extra and get the C400 ;p
canon needs to release good lenses for APS-c, URGENTLY! I have a large number of ef glasses for my c 70 through a speedbuster, the divine sigma 18 35, but I would like to have native aps-c optics with autofocus. With focal lengths of 16-70 F 2.8 16-50 F 1.8, 10-20 2.8.
Improved monitor hinge, SD out and Fullframe sensor. I own a C70 and will be adding a c400 next year. Since I already have the c70 and love it besides it's quirks, I won't be getting a c80.
Hello, totally agree with the sd thing, cf express are far more better for the price and the possibilities... But then that's the problem for canon I guess it wouldn't justify any limitation on frame rates and raw quality so that's the game. Also the C400 is like an R5II sd and cf b again for the price and potentialy a new camera that who knows will have opengate, because the strangest part is that it is a 26mpx 3:2 sensor only used by the the c400 and c80 but just 19mpx is used for 17:9 max. And for the record the recycling parts is a canon thing first, that was done way back in the dslr world for exemple the 550D the 60D and the 7D are build on the same sensor and processor, sony just made the same Skin to their bodies Talking about sharpest... well the R5II for exemple has all frame rates in non oversample mode which turns at to be good because usually on sensor that do oversampling dynamic range take a hit in the process but not here. So it has all the benefits of having 8K but in 4K youcan smooth a bit a lens too sharp if needed, the sad thing is that for the C80 and C400 all framerates and resolution are from 6K so I personally think that options to do no oversampling should be a thing, to have the choice of a sharp crips image or not
I think Nikon can’t afford not to capitalize on red tech, and I’d bet they bought them for that very reason. Additionally both canon and Nikon need to be in the on set cinema space that red, black magic, and Sony occupy to help sell smaller consumer cameras due to brand recognition moving forward. With all the new lenses and cine lens with af tech coming out, most of these companies need to either build different cameras that are at least capable for different genres, or make a few master cameras at the top and branch down. I think that’s what the new c cameras are, jack of all cameras. But, they all need burano style cameras
Unfortunately the only way you can make canons lineup make sense is looking at the features they removed or gimped. I understand they can't cannibalize their own lineup but leaving the c80 with SD cards super aggravating. Making the R5 Mark II with no internal fan and making the video features un appealing because of the quality. I guess if you are a Canon fan like I am, You are loving these new releases. I just think maybe they could have space these releases out and Eric Tao a little more benefits for the c80 and R5 Mark II.
@@16StopsI'm confused basically I have plan of getting R6 mark 2 just 4 months used with RF 24-105 4L and RF 100 2.8 + 256 GB card 300MB/s In 3465 USD. On the other hand R5mark2 is 4265 USD. I also don't have any lens. There are 2 options first is buy the 2 lens with R62 or 2nd option is R52 with Rf50 1.8... later on I'll upgrade my lens 24-105.. is it worth to sacrifice more money. I want 4,5 years future safe. If you're in my place what you'll do?? Is it good offer or suggest me any other option!!
I really have to disagree. Yeah, I know Canon and the cripple hammer. But when you look at other cameras, they all have something you go, hmmm it doesn't do that???. I get the critics, but the C80 is a pretty rounded camera. I will wait to see what people say about the image and DR reported by independent reviewers. But on paper, it is pretty dam good!
I don't need anything but love watching channels about drooling. Thanks for a nice video discussion.
So nice of you
Thanks Brandon for mentioning if people are already in the Canon line up such as me. I have 15 - 35 F2.8, 28-70 F2.0 , 70-200 F2.8. I wanted to do 4k video with no crop and no overheating. Was going to switch to Sony a7S iii but didn't pulled the trigger as I will lose profit if I switch now. Great video! keep it up!
Just got my Canon C400 yesterday. Blown away so far. It's freaky good. I've got a bunch of RF. Happy dog. BTW I hope B&H hooked you up with some affiliate ching. I may grab a C80 down the road. Gonna do some C70/C400 color matching today. Love this channel. Fun and light. Canon won 2024 without any doubt. All the Canon bashing I had to listen to from every direction is now a thing of the past.
I fully agree with Brandon, the fifth Canon drop has to be a very high level all of all cameras. Gotta be.
The cameras should deliver a top notch sharp look and they should make the lens deliver the retro look.
That is awesome! Thanks for the support bud!
Amazing!! If I just wanted to operate the c400 with the side grip and the monitor mounted directly on the box without the top handle to keep things as minimal and portable as possible, is it pretty manageable and not too heavy?
@@LukeSchaeferFilms I haven't gotten near a gimbal with it yet. I will. But I'd try to mount the handle w/a rosette mount and monitor with longer USBC cables to the gimbal so that it's the camera and lens on the gimbal. I'd use a 30BP battery and 35mm lens. Right now I have the 24-105 2.8 lens on it. Light is not a word that comes to mind. But like iI said, a smaller lens would be nice for that use.
I am happy for you having a c400, i will get one as well. C80 is not for me as it does not support cfexpress and it has no 6k60
Sweet! Do you maybe also own an Atomos Shogun (or comparable type) and know if the SDI recording trigger works with it? As in if I press the recording button on the C400 it starts recording internally as well as the Atomos starts recording?
🙌
29:43 predicted - c70 10 years from now someone will be filming on it and talking about the nostalgia of it. We’ve hit the peak already
The GH7 has a dual gain conversion sensor. I was told that dual gain conversion is an Arri pattent. You can do it only if Arri says "ok". We know that Lumix has been talking to Arri lately. (Arri log liscensing)
Correct - and maybe that’s the sensor we’ll see in the next S1H model.
My bmpcc og is a dual gain sensor
@@colinthomas2525 - Yes it does. Its a Sony IMX410 with a low 0db and a high 0db. This is a dual native ISO/gain sensor. What Arri, Canon and Lumix GH7 does is a dual gain conversion sensor readout. This has nothing at all to do with dual native ISO. Dual gain conversion puts two analog preamps on each photosite. It produces two voltages per read cycle and bins them together in to one HDR value. You are talking about something completely different.
I love that in Australia C80 comes with a 5 year warranty. I had 2x Ursa Mini Pro G2 sensor failures less than 2 years after purchase and Sony FX3 Bluetooth module failing just after warranty period expired. Also I agree - if only Canon gave C80 Cfexpess B it would be the the most compelling camera. Nonetheless, once i test it I'll most likely get this cam.
Gotta love that warranty!!!
I don't think it's fair to say Canon doesn't have lenses right now. That new 28-70 2.8 looks awesome. The primes are fantastic the 24. 1.8 the 35 1.8 are AMAZING and image stabilized, no other brand is making lenses like that.
I clarify that it’s not just the lack of robust RF ecosystem in choice it’s also a lack of price points.
The KOMODO-X Looks so good😄 i always drifted off to that thought😄
Great episode guys! I had wanted a c70 but the softer 4k held me back for future proofing myself. I picked up a Komodo OG and then I wanted a b cam. Looked at Nikon and c80 but ultimately went for a second Komodo OG from Brandon lol let’s see if I end up regretting that when I run out of hard drive space 😅
Have fun buddy !
if you want cinematic footage, that true Hollywood look with a digital camera no comparison to GHX100ii, its a medium format camera for photo but what they have done with video is mind blowing. It's the closest thing to Ari Alexa. The FLog is god sent, you do not even need raw its so clean and detailed.
Yeah it’s pretty incredible
The WWF analogy was great. I'm waiting for Sony to come into the ring.
Let’s get ready to rumble
Theres people using the RF 24-105 f2.8 on a camera like the Komodo X. But where it holds them back is the lack of AF. This is where the C400 shines regardless of the KX price drop. Sure KX has 16bit raw and is a dream to work with. But until we see further, reliable enhancements, it’s definitely a “choose your poison” type of situation.
100%
Canon r5 mark ii app control is amazing! You can pull focus with it.
Next DGO Full Frame to be the RF C500
Great commentary fellas! I personally don’t think Canon shot themselves in the foot. The C400 has a different audience. Every production can’t use a C80 in their workflow. Rental houses would choose the C400 all day. But the options are fantastic! Both great cameras and I can’t wait to use them both on projects.
Great discussion. While I don’t need a super decked-out cinema camera (as I do mostly photo, but do some video as well), just give me a canon r6IIc with a built-in fan so that it doesn’t overheat in 4k60 and I’d be super happy.
Very true! I’d also like that.
COME ON BRANDON! That pun should have been FULLY Intended :D
Wasted Potential.
There’s a select market where people are focused on image quality regardless if they’re on set or not. Even run and gun. If you’re the type to say shooting 4K is enough for me, you’re not focused on image quality. If you’re shooting 8 bit or 10bit and saying it’s enough for me, this isn’t you. I’m talking about shooting everything in RAW 12 bit and getting the best image. Using lenses that can keep up and retain the information necessary to bring out the best of the sensor. I have a R5C with a 24-105 f2.8 and RF 35 1.4
Along with some vintage lenses. Autofocus is HUGE. The fact you can use a C400, get all the flavors of codec you can possibly want or need with no conversations saying “oh I can’t do that”. Using the best RF glass and the latest AF. C400 is the obvious choice.
I’m seriously considering the C80 as a step up from my MFT mirrorless cameras, especially after waiting years for an AG-AF101 update! Since I’ll have to move to a new system regardless, the triple ISO and built-in ND filters are the main reasons I’m leaning toward the C80-it seems like the perfect upgrade from mirrorless. Oh, and doesn’t the GH6-7 have a DGO sensor, or whatever the DR Boost?
I don’t think it does but it does have an arri log curve
Gh7 has dgo and you can see it. The image has something special like the c70 has
Yes, the GH7 has DR boost (Panasonic's equivalent of DGO). The GH6 has a more limited version of it (only active from 2000 ISO and up).
The GH7 captures more DR than APSC cinema cameras like the FX 30 and is only 1/2 a stop behind FF cameras like the FX3, S1H, C500ii.
The C400 offers quite much more for the money. If you’re a pro you know.
yeah for me the dealbreaker is the SD card, it's a bottleneck media and a dead end.
Is it okay for me to jump in and get the c400 even though I don’t work on sets and so lots of solo run and gun gigs? I’m a hybrid shooter I make good money with my photography as well as video and right now I just use my r5 for both. I could continue to keep getting by with my r5 or maybe add an r5c. The more portable and ready to use form factor of the c80 appeals to me but I hate the idea of no cf. People keep telling me to get the c80 but something in me is telling me to get c400. Can I have your input here! 🙏🏼🙌🏼
@@LukeSchaeferFilms The C400 is better, it’s just heavier, bulkier, and less weather proof
@@LukeSchaeferFilms if it pays of itself, yes! The C400 is way more future proof giving you all the connections you may need for the future. Also, more choice in compressions and FPS is a big reason going with the C400. One detail very few mention is the form factor. With the C80 you’re stuck with this DSLR body that’s pretty hard moving around without rigging. And there goes the smaller size out the window. The C400 can be made into any type of camera thanks to the modular screen and grip.
I hate to talk about this but it’s important - you simply look so much more professional with a proper camera such as the C400, clients simply appreciate it more. It means a lot for them, and makes you look and feel better.
The C80 people are often in wedding and smaller productions. The people using the C300/400/500 are usually above that doing more serious productions.
Simply put: the C400 does everything the C80 does and much more - get the C400 and you’re good for many years to come.
@@LukeSchaeferFilms If you are using the R5 and you like the CF Express, as I do, You will hate having to buy 300 megabytes per second minimum cards and then still get SD card too slow. That is my experience with the C70. I bought the best cards I could and every now and again they still give me an error. Fatal era to include only SD cards... But I do understand the necessity
17:02 C400. You are correct people who want it like me would use it for very specific things. We would use it together with C500 mark two, we would use Genlock with the LED volume - we would also use the power zoom lens port to put larger Cinema zoom such as the 17-120. For live events where you have multicam filming, Genlock like would be excellent paired with auto clear scan mode. Since we already have Canon R5, and Canon C500 Mark twos, the CF express on the C400 makes perfect sense.
Regarding recommending Canon to non-Canon users I probably wouldn’t do it so easily. It really just depends on your application. Sony is still doing excellent in the documentary space, so is Nikon and Panasonic. And now with the Pyxis, you really don’t have a bad option four single owner operators. At this point, you’re just deciding what kind of form factor you want and need. If you want built in ND, SDI, full frame, 6K for better 4K - I would say the C80 now finally competes with the Sony FX6 (and now with black magic raw it’s gonna be an interesting battle)
I’m okay with software limitations to keep people from buying the c80 over the c400 but permanently crippling the c80 with dual sd cards really limits the enhancements
Sure they gave the c70 raw because they were able to pull more out of the cards
But they are already pulling 2x+ write speeds to shoot 6k30. No way it’ll ever get 6k60
On the other hand the c400 can keep going if they want
Between Canon and Sony, I don't see a substantial difference in their corporate approaches. Both companies see the "stills" interchangeable lens cameras now as hybrids, and both companies also look at what might be a "cinema" market. Neither company is limiting the current products so they cannot overlap from one market to the other, because they know that the customers are not going to limit their usage that way.
Canon should just put that sensor into the R5C Mark II
I sure hope they do
Love this podcast! I've spent untold hours researching c80/c400, cages for both etc.
Totally agree with your hopes for a smaller FX3/R5C version with this new sensor.
I'm predicting a C600 next year. Full frame DGO, dual CF Express type B cards. Probably somewhere between $15,000-20,000.
And after all that, this broke videographer will probably just get another R5C 😂
Glad you enjoyed it!
To clarify the DGO sensor tech a bit (and blackmagic doesn't have it in any of their cameras). Canon's implementation is unique. It decodes each photo diode (since their are already 2 of them on each sensor with dual pixel AF) with a different A?D converter setting for each photo diode. However, from what I have read, it's still only 1 A/D converter. Arri on the other hand, uses two discrete A/D converters on every photosite, converting the signal flow ealier in the chain. It means the circuitry is a lot bigger, consumer double the power, and creates more heat.
It does mean, however, that the scan time on the Alexa is faster than Canon. Canon has innovated well with these new BSI Stacked Sensors in the C80 and C400 since they are still dual pixel auto focus, so it's likely that a DGO version of this sensor may be on the table.
The best camera in canon line up is R5C. Other than no direct clog 2 and annoying micro cdmi, it offers pretty much everything high end cinemas offer at much cheaper price
The sd card slots within your computer seem to be significantly slower than a dedicated card reader anyway.
Often the case
The great positioning of the c80 and c400 is two fold. One is now you can have a matching a and b cam setup. They have the same sensor and essentially the same setup. It's not like the c70 where you wondered what paired with it. The R5C is full frame. It doesn't have clog2. Etc etc. The second part is now you have an upgrade path that didn't force you to leap so far.
How does the R5 ii compare to the C80 from a pure image quality perspective? That question has me contemplating canceling my c80 order and getting a 2nd r5 ii especially since I'm a hybrid shooter. R5 gives me 8k 60 raw and can shoot SRAW when concerned about file size
That’s a fun comparison
I think the best thing to do is hold onto your money unless you seriously need the upgrade. I still believe we’ll see a R5Cii and c70ii.
@@gusthecanonrebel prob 1-2 year away from r5cii
@@KarlevidProductions yep! Thinking end of next year but wouldn’t be surprised if it went out a bit further
I Just want to add that you can record 6k 60p on the C80 externally by using an Atomos recorder. This was confirmed in the ProAV workshop video.
@@MrDoomsDave it's a shame that you couldn't do raw recording externally on the c70
@@PizzlesTechTime Yea, I have a feeling thats a hardware related issue in the HDMI port itself. The c70 didn’t have raw originally on release and I believe the intention could have been to never have it. That is …until they did. I hope that the usb-c on the c80 is fast enough to allow external SSDs down the line. That might allow us to record raw 6k 60p raw without the need of an Atomos recorder and Prores Raw. But knowing canon it’s unlikely.
6K60 made me grab the C400. (The camera is stunning thus far BTW) I thoroughly enjoyed using my C70 but was slightly frustrated the IQ wasn't as delicious as my R3 video files. So the FF BSI on the C400 is a dream. Of course the C80 appeals to me (and I still want one) but definitely don't regret sticking with the C400 because 60FPS-ALL-DAY for the way I shoot. Though, I'm a niche shooter - an extreme hobbyist who shoots birds. For most people I definitely think the C80 will be the new C70. Super solid camera that will only grow in popularity over time.
Coming from a C70 and R3 I completely agree, the C70 had a great looking image but the image quality was mush compared the the R3.
I also really missed the adjustable grip that I had with my old C200 so opted for the C400, I'm absolutely loving it so far!
R4C or R5C II - Super 35mm / FF + DGO sensor perhaps that could be the FX3 equivalent in the Canon lineup
Speculating on the CF Express B slot. I know it's on the R5C, but maybe on the C70 / C80 it was just too much heat generation, which would mean a bigger fan and worse battery life. I THINK, it's really hard to know for sure. Because the R5C records to it without overheating. So it's really hard to know. Or they just couldn't fit it, it's hard to know for sure.
I would still love if they made a blackmagic style EVF using USBC, that would be next level and fit on the C400 so well.
💯 percent, my mind was fixed on getting a C80 until I realized Canon sabotaged this camera by limiting 6k to 30fps and no CF express B card slots 😢 Dumb move Canon!
I mean if they did not do that it would cannibalize the c400. I mean it almost 80% already does. While I understand that decision it should have been cut in a different department. CF Express B should be mandatory in 2024
Canon could never remove ND filters after the C70. It is in my opinion the main reason the C70 is desirable still today. It's not the sensor size obviously
I dnt see how the lenses are a limiting factor because how many lenses do you really need ? Which lens can you really say is missing ?
I clarify that it’s not just quantity but it’s also price points.
@20:00 that 28-70mm f2.8 NON L falls into that category at its price vs quality
I traded in my GH5 about 4 months ago got the R6 Mark II. I decided to never open the box returned it and the only camera that made sense to get was the C70. I was looking for a B cam but I ended up getting technically my A cam now and R5C is my hybrid camera. Starting some commercial work this week and I am souped.
I'm confused basically I have plan of getting R6 mark 2
just 4 months used with RF 24-105 4L and RF 100 2.8 + 256 GB card 300MB/s
In 3465 USD. On the other hand R5mark2 is 4265 USD. I also don't have any lens.
There are 2 options first is buy the 2 lens with R62 or
2nd option is R52 with Rf50 1.8... later on I'll upgrade my lens 24-105.. is it worth to sacrifice more money. I want 4,5 years future safe. If you're in my place what you'll do??
Is it good offer or suggest me any other option!!
@@iabdulhaseeb I would have to say it depends on what you are shooting? Are you going to be doing a lot of 4K60P recording? You can only record 4K60 in Long GOP on the R6 Mark II. Also if you are going to be doing a lot of sports photography I think the better body would suit you much better. I personally only shoot an intra frame because long GOP needs proxies to edit on my I-9 build. What is your use case?
@@PizzlesTechTime I want to target small restaurants and small businesses for social media + graphic designing and products photography, as I have planned to give free 30 sec, 1 min reels for Snapchat, tiktok and Instagram. Just to build my portfolio on Instagram and other platforms. Plus I'll do street photography as I'm living an expat in Saudi Arabia.
@@PizzlesTechTime I want camera for 4,5 years!! This is my 13 months savings so I'm really really confused. Wanted to buy R52 but can't buy L glass lenses.
@@iabdulhaseeb Well there are many things to consider and if I personally was buying a camera for hybrid shooting I would want the newest camera but having the 100 mm macro would be really great for food shots. Also that camera has ibis so you would be able to get away with some handheld stuff. I would say if money is a big issue you need to get the most for your money. Also please keep in mind that you will need a pretty powerful computer to edit these files. Even the photos are relatively difficult to edit depending on the program. So when I buy a camera I never think about the extra things I may need. Maybe you can find an R5 Mark II used also. I wish you the best of luck
Awesome talking points guys! IMO a Canon FX3 like an R6iii or R6c would be amazing! And totally agree with you about camera image character - More camera companies should start building out look libraries similar to what ARRI have (And RED, Panasonic etc) to offer shooters more versitile in camera / post options for 'character' without needing to go to a colourist for projects where that's not possible. As for a DGO full frame... anything is possible but IMO an 8k high end camera makes more sense right now / short term. I think CLOG 2, from what I can tell (I could be wrong), is already coming up against the max information it can hold unless you shoot RAW on the C70 / 300mkiii from our very, very brief tests. So without CLOG4 IDK how high it is on their priorities right now given that most their modern high end CLOG2 cameras are finally matching at approx ~16 stops (according to them). They'd also sacrifice rolling shutter which larger sensors are already worse at than the S35 sensors that 'needed' DGO to match / pass full frame dynaic range while keeping acceptable rolling shutter. But we'll see either way sometime eventually!
I'm confused basically I have plan of getting R6 mark 2
just 4 months used with RF 24-105 4L and RF 100 2.8 + 256 GB card 300MB/s
In 3465 USD. On the other hand R5mark2 is 4265 USD. I also don't have any lens.
There are 2 options first is buy the 2 lens with R62 or
2nd option is R52 with Rf50 1.8... later on I'll upgrade my lens 24-105.. is it worth to sacrifice more money. I want 4,5 years future safe. If you're in my place what you'll do??
Is it good offer or suggest me any other option!!
@@iabdulhaseeb It sounds like you don’t have much experience to be buying a near top of the line camera. I’d think hard about blowing that amount of money on a camera at this stage when what you might need is more practice first. Unless you shoot video or need to crop a LOT you probably won’t notice a huge difference between the two and lenses are imo more important to the image these days. Id also strongly consider Sony as a new buyer because there are so many more lenses and cheaper options as well as a huge used market.
@@ShaneVanLitz which models you can recommend.
@@ShaneVanLitz I don't have any gear now .. I used to have 5dmark3 in 2013 -2019... But I changed my field as I am currently working in the restaurant business industry. I want to target small restaurants and small businesses for social media and products photography, as I have planned to give free 30 sec, 1 min reels for Snapchat, tiktok and Instagram. Just to build my portfolio on Instagram and other platforms. Plus I'll do street photography as I'm living an expat in Saudi Arabia. I belong to Pakistan.
@@iabdulhaseeb For Sony maybe an A7Cii or something used. R6ii has a slow to edit video codec FYI and the R6iii is coming end of 2024 early 2025.
People being hung up on no DGO feels like a marketing ploy. Id give up half a stop all say for full frame, triple base iso and a better read out speed. If the DGO was so great everyone else woulda copied it by now.
Well not really cause you gotta license that from Arri.
Went from pre ordering the C400 then i chanceld the c400 and orderd the C80 now im picking up my C400 next week xD
Issues with the C80 = Dual SD card... 512gb V90 wich is needed to record all formats costs 780 EURO, for my work i would need atleast 4 of them so thats around 3k euro.. then i rather pay 500 euro extra and get the C400 ;p
Now you will want the Komodo-X with the recent price drop, a richer image but not as good autofocus
@@hawaiifreespeechnews need a camera that’s easy to go with, and have good autofocus.
This camera will do you solid then
canon needs to release good lenses for APS-c, URGENTLY! I have a large number of ef glasses for my c 70 through a speedbuster, the divine sigma 18 35, but I would like to have native aps-c optics with autofocus.
With focal lengths of 16-70 F 2.8 16-50 F 1.8, 10-20 2.8.
Well that’s where Sigma is starting to fit in.
24:34 it will be R6 III
Both C400 and C80 use the same sensor from R3. Moreover, C80 has a lower bitrate which means it wont have the same color depth as C400
Improved monitor hinge, SD out and Fullframe sensor. I own a C70 and will be adding a c400 next year. Since I already have the c70 and love it besides it's quirks, I won't be getting a c80.
Great content fellas! I make movies and skits. You got a new sub!
love!
Thanks for watching!
The c70 image quality beats both these cameras in my opinion
You’ve shot with all three?
Hello, totally agree with the sd thing, cf express are far more better for the price and the possibilities... But then that's the problem for canon I guess it wouldn't justify any limitation on frame rates and raw quality so that's the game. Also the C400 is like an R5II sd and cf b again for the price and potentialy a new camera that who knows will have opengate, because the strangest part is that it is a 26mpx 3:2 sensor only used by the the c400 and c80 but just 19mpx is used for 17:9 max.
And for the record the recycling parts is a canon thing first, that was done way back in the dslr world for exemple the 550D the 60D and the 7D are build on the same sensor and processor, sony just made the same Skin to their bodies
Talking about sharpest... well the R5II for exemple has all frame rates in non oversample mode which turns at to be good because usually on sensor that do oversampling dynamic range take a hit in the process but not here. So it has all the benefits of having 8K but in 4K youcan smooth a bit a lens too sharp if needed, the sad thing is that for the C80 and C400 all framerates and resolution are from 6K so I personally think that options to do no oversampling should be a thing, to have the choice of a sharp crips image or not
I think Nikon can’t afford not to capitalize on red tech, and I’d bet they bought them for that very reason. Additionally both canon and Nikon need to be in the on set cinema space that red, black magic, and Sony occupy to help sell smaller consumer cameras due to brand recognition moving forward. With all the new lenses and cine lens with af tech coming out, most of these companies need to either build different cameras that are at least capable for different genres, or make a few master cameras at the top and branch down. I think that’s what the new c cameras are, jack of all cameras. But, they all need burano style cameras
Yeah I think it’s inevitable
CF Express gets hotter than SD Cards. Spend less money on cooling
Unfortunately the only way you can make canons lineup make sense is looking at the features they removed or gimped. I understand they can't cannibalize their own lineup but leaving the c80 with SD cards super aggravating. Making the R5 Mark II with no internal fan and making the video features un appealing because of the quality. I guess if you are a Canon fan like I am, You are loving these new releases. I just think maybe they could have space these releases out and Eric Tao a little more benefits for the c80 and R5 Mark II.
It sounds expensive!
$5500-$6000 is not cheap that’s for sure but it is cheap or fairly priced when you look at it’s direct competitors.
@@16StopsI'm confused basically I have plan of getting R6 mark 2
just 4 months used with RF 24-105 4L and RF 100 2.8 + 256 GB card 300MB/s
In 3465 USD. On the other hand R5mark2 is 4265 USD. I also don't have any lens.
There are 2 options first is buy the 2 lens with R62 or
2nd option is R52 with Rf50 1.8... later on I'll upgrade my lens 24-105.. is it worth to sacrifice more money. I want 4,5 years future safe. If you're in my place what you'll do??
Is it good offer or suggest me any other option!!
Still not real FX3 (form factor ) competitor from canon :
Yeah and I doubt we’ll ever get one
I really have to disagree. Yeah, I know Canon and the cripple hammer. But when you look at other cameras, they all have something you go, hmmm it doesn't do that???. I get the critics, but the C80 is a pretty rounded camera. I will wait to see what people say about the image and DR reported by independent reviewers. But on paper, it is pretty dam good!
Pretty sure we were surprised how little it’s crippled.
I don't like dongles....at all.
The Anti Dongles Dongles Club
I just can’t get with the style of the body