What we use from the AD&D Deities and Demigods Book
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ย. 2023
- The Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Deities and Demigods tome is a great reference book. We use most of it, but with a few changes.
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Years ago, I found a copy of the first edition of Deities and Demigods at a used book store in New Mexico for $6. The cover is beat up, but the pages are in good condition. I kind of just like paging through it for the info and the artwork.
I think that's more of how I used it as opposed to using it during play.
Lankhmar, That would be the Swords series by Fritz Leiber. Great source material from the glory years of fantasy.
Agreed. I'm starting a reread of them this winter.
The use of Cthulhu and Elric is a complicated story. Jim Ward obtained the rights for TSR to use the Lovecraft and Elric material for a book by writing to Arkham House and Michael Moorcock directly. Chaosium had bought the rights to make RPGs from the same material. Initially Chaosium sent a cease and desist letter to TSR, but TSR responded that they had the rights, so could use it. Both companies agreed that TSR could use Lovecraft (and Elric) in Deities and Demigods on the basis that TSR credit Chaosium for the use. In return Chaosium could use AD&D in Thieves' World. The 2nd printing of Deities and Demigods (which I have) has that acknowledgement in it. When it came to the 3rd printing, Brian Blume decided that the acknowledgment constituted an advert for Chaosium, which was finally putting out CoC and Stormbringer and so cut out those chapters. (I would add, though, that Jim Ward has told this story in numerous ways over the years).
Thanks, Elliot.
I was JUST about to post this! Glad I scrolled down.
I would only add to what others have said.. the REASON that Melnibone' and Cthulhu were ultimately removed even though a compromise was reached, is because Brian Blume did not want to put the 'Chaosium Thank You' in the book and possibly lead readers to the 'competition'. Worse yet, even though Jim Ward offered to produce additional content, Blume was happy to run with fewer pages. A prime example of the utter asshattery that was TSR management at the time. The Newhon Mythos was never removed.
The Cthulhu and Melnibonean mythoi are completely different from all the others in the tome save the Newhon, and I love it. I’ve made more than light use of the various deities listed, frequently using the divinity listed as a template and changing them as needed to fit the campaign.
I always treated / thought of the listings of abilities and powers as the expression of those that the god’s avatar would possess and not as that of the beings full strength on its home plane or outside the Prime Material. Even demigods and quasi powers would be unimaginably potent let alone Lesser and Greater powers.
I just got my 1st edition Deities and Demigods in the mail today! Going through the books with you guys as you show them is awesome
Thanks, Cam! We appreciate your comment.
I never used much from DDG-, except for the Cthulhu stuff. Also, I've had the party run into Elric a few times over the years on one of his alternate plane adventures. Those were loads of fun!
I still use the Celtic, Finnish, and Norse pantheons in my Campaign to this day. In theory the Chinese and Japanese pantheons are in existence in the East as well.
How much we actually used, enough, reading it like a narrative, my imagination filling in the gaps, fun. Still have my original.
In the old days of the original box set and supplements, we called that booklet Clods, Demi-Clods and Weirdos.
Lol. Love that intro 😂
Isn’t Cthulhu public domain? Maybe not in the 80s?
Great book. I still use the statblock format for my own gods on the rare occasion it’s needed.
@@elliotvernon7971 cool. Thanks.
3rd printing was where the Cthulhu Mythos got dropped. Second printing Cthulhu Mythos was in there along with a thanks to Chaosium at the beginning of the book.
Just discovered your channel and have been binging your vids. Love the content and the vibe between you 2
Thanks! Glad you like our brand of, well, whatever it is we do. Suggestions are always welcome.
Great video. I haven't seen Alex that enthusiastic at the start of a video since he was filled with the Holy Spirit at the last tent revival. Well he was filled with one of the spirits in that book at least. That's how I felt when that book first came out and I found it on the game shop shelf oh so many years ago. Cthulhu, Elric and Moonglum, Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, Deities and Demigods of all mythoi. The video was like stepping into Mr. Peabody's Wayback machine for 20 odd minutes. Thanks for the excellent memories guys. And I agree with Jim and some of the posters that Gods should not be that easy to kill, but it was nice to see a representation of their powers and abilities.
Ahh, the forbidden book that shall not be named. I use a lot of the monsters. No character in a campaign of mine would ever be able to take down a God. Just isn't going to happen, and if they tried it would never end well for them. I do like the coverage of the Pantheons though, and some good monsters in there.
Here's a little something for Alexander.
We found a tomb that was sealed. So we figured out a way to drill into it and we were going to use several potions of gasious form to get in, get the treasure and get out. But that's when we discovered that it was the prison of a Cthulhu God and we had just released it.
Holy crap that thing was tough! Tougher than us so we hightailed it out of there never to return! Those characters were never the same after that. Always watching their backs waiting for that thing to return and eat their souls.
Alex here, that sounds like a heck of an adventure! We've had some similar things happen, but never with Cthulhu. Love that that found its way into your campaign! Keep your sword arm free!
Chaosium was around back then, and they had plans to make Call of Cthulhu and asked that TSR not carry on with the HP Lovecraft lore.
I have the Legends and Lore version of the book, and it’s one of my favorites
I use the norse, and nonhuman deities for my home games
18:09 for what it’s worth Blackrazor is based on stormbeinger.
I'll check it out. Thanks
Still have 2 of my first edition Deities & Demigods. Loved using the Norse, Finnish, Cthulhu and Greek gods on a constant basis. Our Monty Haul character even interacted with them at times. Loved the Books by Melnibone books as well as the Nehwon books by Fritz Leiber. Highly recommend those and the lovecraft books. As an old DM though who uses my own deities now, some based on old characters of friends back in the old campaigns, I enjoy the Non-human deities the most now. Moradin and Gruumsh and Correllon and all the others never get outdated with the humanoids of any world that one can create. Another great video guys. May Cthulhu not have enough tentacles to reach you as he gobbles up your friends close by. Adventure On!
Oh, one more thing. I think I've got some of those same silver knights that are to Alex's left (my right) in your video. I've had them since the mid-70s. Got them, and some Saxon warriors, for Christmas one year. Very cool!
That's when I got them. I have the large size, and a set of small ones with the Saxon warriors. I think the small ones came with a fold out play castle from the 60s.
Yep, same here. I wish I still had that old castle too. :-) Those figures went on many a campaign with us. Really useful for determining who is in line of sight and in the are of effect of a spell.@@theoldwarlock
Cool channel guys! I like the non human deities as well. There are several more in the old Dragon mags, with pics. They were printed in Unearthed Arcana without the pics for some reason. If someone killed a god in my world they would regret it because followers and clerics of that god would seek revenge, gaining there spells from other gods that can't allow that behavior to go unpunished.
That's kind of our thought process as well. It should be unbelievably difficult to kill a god, but if someone did then they would have some significant conflicts they would have to overcome after that.
We occasionally took these creatures and went on campaigns as them.. we fought other deities and demigods.. good times.. it way like 1989, smoking weed with a dude named Mike with a +2 afro..
Had this first edition book. One of my boys borrowed it, and then moved away to Idaho with my ex and it was lost forever, so sad. I have it in PDF version though. It was a cool book and great for ideas. Now a-days, I use my own Deities for my campaigns (3 of them all with their own Deities). I agree 400hp? NAH, they be Gods, not so easy to take down, if you can take them down at all.
Alex: if you like Lovecraft, then you should read some of Clark Ashton Smith’s stuff. Mostly his Hyperborean cycles. He was the one who came up with Tsathoggua, and Lovecraft even used his name as a Dark Priest in one of his stories (I think Dunwich Horror), Klarkash Ton. Really great, crazy Sword and Sorcery stuff.
Thanks! I'll check it out.
There are times I think you’ve been in my shelves😂.. have the deities & demigods.. and Lankhmar module/city is one of my favorites for world building
lol I love when my players get above lvl 25. I think that's when the real fun begins. Most will be nobels with ties to country and friends. Where they can impact the world. Where poor decisions can create lasting foils.
-6 AC?! Schnikey! Y’all must have a high-shenanigans game! Sounds like fun!
We won't be having a high-shenanigans game much longer, unfortunately. All of our magic items are in a state of limbo. Schroedinger's magic items, if you will. Keep your sword arm free!
Hey, you two finally changed your shirts!;-)
Hah! Well spotted!
One of my favorite books of all time (including Legends & Lore), and responsible for further igniting a curiosity in other cultures' mythologies.
Agreed! The book really sparked my curiosity about other mythologies and I spent countless hours at the library reading up on the same. A great book.
still have my original copy
I had the first edition of this book (from 1980? 81?). On top of all of the great info, it contained my intro to the C'Thulhu and Melnibonian mythos (mythoses?). Sadly, much like my Holmes book, white box D&D set, 1st edition Stormbringer, Worlds of Wonder, 1977 A&D books, and many other artifacts of the day,this one would also join them in dumpster hell. 🍻😥
That's a heartbreaker. Here's to hoping you find some new ones! Keep your sword arm free!
I have the 1st printing of the DDG, and I consider it an integral part of my campaign, though my the current PCs are not terribly religious. Most recently, they opened a tomb and released Gilgamesh from suspended animation, an act that's going to lead to an upheaval in the socio-political aspects of that corner of my campaign world, as Gilgamesh still considers himself king of that area.
The PCs are on their way to the "Greek" part of the world, where the first thing they're going to encounter is a Lesser Cyclops. And I'm waiting for one of the PCs (a "Spartan" warrior) to mouth off one too many times about how he could "totally take Ares." He might just get his chance!
Would love to find that book have the legend lore book
Oddly, they seem to be available in waves on ebay. The prices fluctuate a lot as well.
What book did you use for reference to "RUSH" lyrics?
I use the album covers.
As a Finnish person, I'm offended you're not using more Finnish deities in your games! Jokes aside, love the videos as always.
Glad you liked the video! Keep your sword arm free!
Oh and by the way "MIGHTY Decay on RA!"
Alex here, if only I could have seen it. All I have are the stories.
Remember that you don't have to include any mythos in your standard campaign. They could easily be incorporated into an "alternate earth" or "parallel dimension" or even on another planet. Just be careful not to open some Portal that brings them back to your "Home World" or there could be a God war and it would all be your fault 😮
The drivethruRPG PDF version is unfortunately the 128page version that doesn't include Cthulhu.
It's a tough find these days.
@@theoldwarlock Yeah I recently found someone selling one on Craigslist in my area along with a collection of other 1E stuff. I tried making an offer for just Deities & Demigods but he ended up selling it as a bundle to someone else.
Side note I love that Deities & Demigods can also be shortened to D&D. I see what they did there.
The American Indian mythos would be great if you have a Boot Hill campaign.
That's a great idea, we'll have to keep that one in the back pocket!
I had one of those, but I have no idea what happened to it. It wasn't mine. It was a friend on mine's book. I contacted on FB years later and told him I could send him his old books. He said, "I don't play kids games anymore." Poor guy. He doesn't sound fun at all. I still wish I knew what happened to that book though.
Kids Games!?! Sucks to be him!
Honestly I don't do much with Deities & Demigods, mostly design my own pantheons. It's hard to divorce all the real world from the pantheons of true mythologies. I've still used creatures derived from myth, but having the overarching cogs of the metaphysical come from Earth is a step too far for my tastes.
In this regard I do what every kid does, I rewrite the Greek gods, maybe move Horses to the Hermes analog, maybe give earthquakes to the Hephaestus analog, etc. I also do a lot of dual or trio gods.
I have to agree. It can be tough to divorce the earth gods mind image from the in-game gods mind image.
Thanks for the video. I agree that the gods as written are far too weak relative to high level pcs
You're welcome Doug. Glad you enjoyed it.
If I recall correctly, in 1st edition, 400 hp was the maximum one could achieve. At least "officially" anyway. I know this doesn't apply to your campaigns... I'm just spouting my questionable useless trivia.
That's an interesting fact, I didn't know that! Thanks for sharing! Keep your sword arm free!
Books
22:00 What's a book? Is it something you use as toilet paper?
Sadly, for some, yes.
I use Deities and Demigods almost exactly like you, down to not letting gods and dragons be able to be destroyed without absolutely unique circumstances (rolling consecutive 00 about 5 times unique), because, well, they're gods. And no 17th level fighters. I've seen, but luckily never played in, campaigns where the party went to Valhalla and killed ALL of the gods... smh. I've used several of the different mythos, and found resources with even more mythos. One of the larger Human cultural areas in my world is based on ancient Mesopotamia, with every city-state having its own chief god or goddess. Also, different cultures have the same gods, but call them by different names (Perun or Perkuno are basically the Slavic version of the Norse god Thor). And these gods and mythos don't have to be "accurate" to our world. As you say, it's your own fantasy world, so they can be made to fit your world. Great video, as per usual, and I greatly enjoyed it. Have a great day, and may you always make your saving throw!
Thanks Michael.
Is this in reference to using them in 5E? The talk about stats being over 20 being rare through me off.
Nope! Some of the more powerful beings in the book come up to somewhere around 20, but we don't necessarily think that's powerful enough compared to the strength of regular players, so we go higher.
This may sound like anathema to AD&D players, but the most useful version of Deities and Demigods to be published is the 5e book Mythic Odysseys of Theros.
The AD&D and 3e versions of Deities and Demigods share the same focus. Stat blocks for gods. That's fine, but it's realistically useless. If it has a stat block then players can kill it. That's a fact of gameplay in a game. Gods don't need stat blocks. Ideally, If you are in a fight to the death with a god you're either going to lose, or you have the boon/avatar mantle from another god backing you up and you're really just acting as a conduit for that other god's power.
Why is Mythic Odysseys of Theros better? because half of that book is dedicated to the structure or the religions of 15 fantasy gods and how to use the faith itself in a campaign. Your players shouldn't be fighting gods. Your players should be fighting the mortal worshipers of those gods, and gaining favor and boons from the opposing gods in the same pantheon/setting.
Theros provides actionable rules for the Piety advancement track. A points system showing how many quests you've done to further your god's goals and the rewards they grant for all your work.
It also has tables for allies, enemies, and quest givers/hooks for each god in the setting, temples/battle maps for holy sites of each god, and all the support and guides needed to run agents of any god as they recurring villain of the campaign.
The most useful trick of all is simply taking the gods presented in Theros, and swapping out their names for whatever the closest equivalent is in the setting you are running.
Heliod = any sun god.
Erebos = any god of the dead
Athreos = any god who ferries the souls of the dead to the underworld.
Plus 12 more that have equally valid corollaries in most pantheons you could name.
If you want to run any real world pagan/ancient pantheon and need background lore you'll find more helpful info in any book covering that pantheon or any number of mythology reference books. Hell, you'll get the main points of what each god is all about if you just read the creation myth for their pantheon.
If you really want to fight gods in D&D there is only one book series I'd recommend. The Joust series by Mercedes Lackey. Joust, Alta, Sanctuary, and Aerie. Book 1 is a solo adventure giving the backstory for the main character and world building. Books 2 and 3 are the main character from book 1 forming his own adventuring party and using that party to liberate NPCs he cares about, support a bunch of different factions of clerics who are getting systematically drained of magic and killed off by wizards, and ending the generations long war that has been prolonged indefinitely by the war profiteering wizards.
Book 4 Aerie is particularly useful for D&D inspiration and provides a framework for how to handle fighting between PCs and gods. Most of the book is the main character and his party enjoying retirement/their new jobs given to them by the king they put on the throne in book 3 when they ended the war. Retirement ends when everyone is called back into service to fight off an invading army from the other side of the impassable desert. The climax of the book is the fight between two armies and two pantheons as the invaders summon Tiamat into the world. Meanwhile the main character and his allies have to summon the gods they've been talking about and worshiping for the last 4 books. That final battle and the way it handles fights with gods is the only way I'd allow a group of murderhobo PCs to "fight" a god.
Thanks, CP! I'll check it out.
You use a wand of fireballs as an example. You mean the 6d6 average 21 damage wand? To kill something with 400 hit points? With magic resistance? Edit your video, be for real. Second point, no 17th level characters in a nearly 60 year old game?! I have a character that is 44 years since being rolled up! You think he is a MERE 17th level? He was 17th after 4 1/2 years or so of gaming. Be for real. There is no level limit in 1e except for demihumans that aren't thieves.
Those are avatars. Not gods.