Important Tests For Myford Lathes & How To Adjust To Remove A Turning Taper
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2016
- See how important it is to set-up and test your Myford lathe for bed distortion. With instructions on how to adjust and align the bed and remove any turning tapers.
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I love to watch a master like Steve demonstrate these techniques. I wouldn't know a thing if it wasn't for these gentlemen who are willing to share their immense experience with us.
this can go for all lathes out there. finally i know how to do it . THANK you so much! listen to the older ppl! yaou can learn a lot from them!
Excellent video - I have restored a 1946 ML7 and this was a perfect explanation of how to align bed to remove a taper. Many thanks for taking the time to share your experience, best regards Paul.
Steve thank you for doing this video I realy appreciate you making these.. I have no one else to show me how this is done so it is a huge help..
Hi Adrian, Thanks for the feedback... Regards Steve.
This is a brilliant video, thanks for sharing your knowledge Steve
Thanks for taking the time in making the video and to explain the process in depth 👍.
Very knowledgeable individual.
I have learned so much, with clear, practical and precise instructions.
Thank you.
Thank you for making this video Steve it's very helpful.
Superb ! Thanks for posting this video.
Tomorrow i will align my mini lathe properly.
Excellent ! clear instructions thanks so much for taking the time to share your knowledge.
There's all something new, to learn thank you.
Thank you for share tour knowledge. Really appreciated, sir!
first lathe I ever used,lovely little machines, but this will definitely help with setting up of the little ml4 that came my way.
Very interesting and informative. Keep on keeping on.
Thanks
Hi Steve just want to thank you for all your videos. Really interesting and useful as I have just bought my first lathe myford ml7
Cheers
Andy
Thank you . Patient and methodical and clear
Great video. Many thanks Steve!
Excellent procedure, it is surprising how much taper a very small amount of twist can cause. Well done, Steve. Thank you.
Hi Glenn, Thanks. Yes it amazed me as well. I only found out about it when I got the Myford ML7 and read the handbook.
Excellent advice as always Steve!
+John Creasey Hi John....Thanks
Thanks for posting Both useful and interesting
Nice job Steve - thank you
Great video Steve, thanks.
THANK YOU...for sharing.
Excellent. Thanks Steve. 👍
That was very informative thanks
Most interesting - thank you
Thanks
Thankyou for this video!
Hi David.....Thanks for watching.....Regards Steve
Many thanks for very helpful instruction, just discovered some run out has appeared! Winter setup now summer heat in workshop may have caused issue, so will check and adjust seasonally if necessary.
Hi Bill Thanks. The worst thing about winter for mine is the condensation. I live on a flood plain so everything tends to get damp in the metal shed! Regards Steve
Very useful video 👍
Many thanks for the instruction, Thank you !!
Thank you for all this.
That's ok... Thanks for watching. Regards Steve
Excellent thanks
Thanks for the excellent Myford show and tell taper elimination video. I have a Colt lathe (Myford clone) and I suspect I have a taper problem which I hope to correct with the aid of your video. I will also use your procedure to check my 12in Atlas lathe which has a similar bed and mounting bolts.
Hi Thanks, Those Colt (Myford clones) are quite rare aren't they? I have only ever seen one on the internet. I think it will work on any lathe with similar design and you can use shim to do the adjustment if a lathe doesn't have raising blocks. I only found out about this procedure when I got the ML7 and read the handbook.
my Myford Clone
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No matter by whom or where the lathe was made it will deflect when placed on a bench, or for that matter a floor --- it is not made of Unobtanium. Tom Lipton has a monster lathe and the jacking screws are on the floor, but it still had deflection. Tom used a machinist's level, which is very expensive There is a video on the oxtools channel on the process. The test in this video is such a simple test and applies to almost any lathe. It is in Sparey's book, "The Amateur's Lathe" and everyone should repeat it. If you do not have jacking screws, you will have to shim the mounting screws. Thanks for posting!
Thank you
Just bought our first myford and completely refurbed it and your you tube channel helps alot. What cutting bit have you as looking to buy the same. ?
Hi Steve
I did a similar adjustment on my lathe brand Optimum and got good results. So this works for any hobby lathes... Greetings from France Laurent
so far it has taken me 18 months to even plug it in
Hi Steve I have just bought an m type Myford and when I finish cleaning and installing it I will do these checks.Are most threads the same for the m type compared to your lathe? Expect plenty of stupid questions from me in the next few weeks! Thanks for a great channel for an engineering newbie 👍🏻😎
Several comments related to a misaligned head-stock. Steves response was that 'Myford stated in their instructions to do it 'this way'.'
Fact is that the head stock could possibly be mis-aligned BUT NOT on a NEW ML7 straight from the factory.
I am currently rebuilding a PREMO (aussie) lathe. To realign the headstock the procedure I plan to use, is to take a facing cut off the end of a bar. The cut MUST be FLAT. I will check this with a dial indicator.. I expect the dial indicator will show no variation up to the centre, but after passing the centre, there will be a change in reading. When the headstock is aligned, then there will be no variation on the clock and the end of the bar will be flat.
I have rebuilt a Sheraton 9C lathe (aussie), which is a Southbend 9 design. These lathes have bed rails which go through to the headstock and the headstock is inherently aligned with the bed / rails.
It beggars belief that a lathe bed can be twisted but the Myford instruction book clearly says that it can. The bed of the PREMO is very heavily built, and it will be interesting to see how it shapes up.
In time I will rebuild my ML7 (serial K40572) but that can wait.
I've recently moved my location and so needed to set up my ML7again, I followed the instructions from Myford book no 720 R and got a good result in the first tightening down sequence , lucky or not. You didn't say exactly how it is suggested to do this operation according to the book. I believe when I set up my machine about 30 years ago previously that I didn't follow the instructions correctly either and farted around to achieve the desired result. I learned something after 30 years. Read the instructions carefully and it can make a difference! Personal opinion only. All the best for now.
Watching this video tells me that my ml7 probably isn't accurate enough! I'm guessing seasonal changes in a wooden bench will also affect the precision over time.
informative video as I've just started to recon a ml7 and getting to grips with it. cheers Steve, an invaluable Chanel.
+Loadzofhobbies Hi yes the setting up of the lathe is really important according to the manual. Lots of people just stand them on a normal wooden bench, like I did at first. Since I have done mine properly it has transformed the lathe. Thanks for watching....Regards Steve
Steve would the first test work on my m type? The four mounting holes are not as far apart as your ML7 would it still twist being shorter than yours? Got my first chips today so I shall be out in the shed tinkering and getting to know my new toy when I can.Thanks for passing on your knowledge and enthusiasm.
Well Done
Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Very interesting do this apply to the Chinese lathes or only the Myford lathes
Hi Steve, would these checks and adjustments be just as important on the mini lathe? My lathe is just sitting on a sturdy bench top and I have been struggling with taper problems. I have been pulling my hair out trying to adjust the tail stock presuming that to be the cause.
Do you have any tips on the Tailstock Alignment?
Thank you Steve my lathe is in need of adjustment but I don’t have leveling blocks
You can add shims under the 'feet' to achieve the same thing.
This is a superb video, thank you. I note you have a stop near the lathe chuck (featured in red) with a knurled knob, did you ever make a small video on this subject?
Thanks. I bought the stop on eBay, but will show it soon in a video when I get the time. Regards Steve
Very nice instruction video. Levelling the lathe is very a delicate job...zero thou is the target...
I don't understand why you don't tighten the top-bolts with a (measurable) reproducible force, so that measuring with the micrometer is actually reproducible too...any reason for that ?
Hello Steve, I am from the Netherlands and I admire your videos about lathes and the modifications yo do on your lathes.
I am an hobbyist and I learn a lot from these videos.
I have also a question, are you willing to make, and of course I pay you for it, things for other people (me).
The drilling tool for the tool post is very nice and I want, wen possible, to buy a copy from you.
Hi Steve, I notice you didn't check the bed for level between the headstock and tailstock. Is there a reason for that or it's not necessary? Thanks.
Hello Steve,
Does this adjustment influence the tailstock position as well?
Should it be verified after adjusting ?
Thanks for this nice demo !
+Eddy Fontaine Hi Eddy yes I forgot to mention that. You would have to check and adjust the tailstock after doing this.
Very helpful thank you. How would I distinguish between a taper due to twist in the bed as you have shown and one due to head stock not parallel to the lathe ways. If you could say that would be very helpful as I have this taper issue with my mini lathe, thanks.
williams-sonics a
thank you for sharing.. i just got my grandad's old myford he bought from new around 1970...
what is that red bar you got over the ways? end stop? does it stop the auto feed when it hits?
Hi It is a carriage or saddle stop used to set the depth of a cut. Only used when winding the carriage in manually. You must never use it with the auto feed otherwise it will damage or break the lathe feed mechanism. You can buy the saddle stop on Ebay, they are a very useful addition to the lathe. Thanks for watching....Regards Steve
Hi ,what material is the 5/16 studded bar? Mild steel or stainless ?
One criticism is the use of an insert with a too large nose radius to take a 0.002" (2 thou cut) the tool nose radius is too big and you can see that in the poor surface finish and maybe tool stand off. Id recommend you use a razor sharp ground HSS or carbide turning tool.
Wouldn´t it be better to adjust the head stock and leave the bed without internal stress? That´s how I did it on my Emco, but it is a lot of work.
Hi Steve,
As I am restoring a Super7 and removed the headstock to facilitate the bed to be reground,I had to reset the the alignment using a MT2 test bar in the spindle and had to reseat the taper due to previous abuse.
It seems OK but is there any other way of accurately checking this?
Many thanks for the instruction it is easier to follow than reading the manual alone.
Please continue with Myford setups and great information.
Cheers
Allen.
Hi Allen, Thanks. At the moment, I do not know of any other way of accurately checking the alignment. My brother has the Super 7. I really like the spindle bearings on that lathe. Hope to do another video as soon as I get time!
I guess if our lathe isn't setup with jacking feet like that, shims would work?
What are the oilier adaptions you have please and what is their purpose fabulous video
Hi Martin Thanks.....I made the oil manifolds so that I have more control over the lubrication. I put pure iso 32 hydraulic oil in the drip feed oilers. The cup ones I use for iso 32 at the start of machining and sometimes use them to put some Molyslip into the bearings.
I have since changed the drip feed oilers to wick feed oilers, that I made. These are much more reliable and stay at a constant flow. See my video on the wick feed ones.
Regards Steve
Thanks Steve, have you fastened your Chinese 7x lathe to a bench or is it on the rubber feet?
Hi David, I took the rubber feet off, bolted the lathe onto a mahogany board then screwed that down onto the wood top of a heavy duty steel box section bench. It is solid and doesn't move, but if I need to do maintenance on the lathe I can just unscrew the board from the bench and remove the lathe complete with the mahogany board still attached. I can't understand why they put rubber feet on the lathe. It needs to be absolutely solid for machining.
Regards Steve
Hi Steve, When I'm setting my lathe up, I initially use a special lathe level to set level exactly, then set to remove any taper. Is it better to set the level the way you have shown?
The wooden top will shift with time and moisture content.
Endless chasing trueness when needed.
No the lathe has its thick tray and the wood top is solid on cast iron stand. It hasn't moved in 5 years so it is fine. Regards Steve
I’d be tempted to do a couple of spring passes and use a fine machine feed rather than feeding by hand, just to eliminate any springing of the workpiece at the far end and to get those measurements spot on.... good info though.
Hi Robert. The measurements were spot on and I removed all of the taper. It is still spot on to this day.
Gostaria de recondicionar meu mayford. Onde ou como comprar peças de reposiçao
What depth of cut, speed and feed rate were you using? You are getting a far better finish with your indexable tooling then I have been able to achieve on my Super 7
I can't remember the spindle speed the depth of cut would be about 15-20 thou. I have a 50% reduction gear on the gears for the feed and just chose one of the lowest feeds on the chart. You really need a reduction gear for power feed on the Myford lathes
Thanks for this Steve, looks like more fine tuning needed
did not even know this, of course one does not want any sort of twisting on a lathe. Thought the chassis of the lathe would be robust enough to stop any form of twisting.
Hi Ronit, Yes it is amazing. I wouldn't have known about it if I didn't have the Myford ML7 handbook. Regards Steve.
@@SteveJordan glad you shared the process! I am sure millions out there now know such fixes will improve on the accuracy of their machines. Funny how the manuals from the past had so much information on them.
Hi Steve. Very interesting channel. I like to watch your videos.
All the more because I just got a Myford ML7 for little money from our local scrap dealer and I am seriously considering to keep it and sell my Schaublin 102 which has no lead screw.
The ML7 however is not yet equipped with a collet chuck and does not have a quick change tool holder either. So I would have to buy that.
Which collet size would you recommend? I saw you using an ER40, but the ER25 seem to be normal for the ML7? Some youtube videos claim that the cheap collet sets hav far too much runout. What do you think about that? The sets from Chronos are also quite inexpensive and therefore probably also come from China.
And likewise: which tool holder would you recommend? Is the Myford toolholder ok? Some people swear on the multifix, but it is far more expensive.
Another question: Half a tooth of the backgear is broken off. Nevertheless the machine runs fine at low speeds and does not make strange noises. However it certainly should not be loaded too much in these gears. I wonder what to do. Unfortunately this gear is not available as spare. Do you think it is a good idea to repair it? Keith Rucker from vintage-machinery.org shows such a repair in one of his videos. On the other hand I thought that this gear would be completely disposable if I operate the motor through a frequency converter allowing very low speeds at high torque. But then perhaps the belt would slip?
I do not know if you have the time so answer these question. I see well that you have plentyof followers. But your view would help me very much in my decisions.
Thanks a lot in advance.
Adalbert Gebhart
Hi Adalnert. I have only ever used the quichange toolposts and they are fine for me. I would buy a Er40 chuck as you can use these for the full range of sizes. You may be able to get a backgear on ebay especially if you ask the ones that list the Myford spares frequently like Heritage Lathes etc. These must be dismanteling the used lathes so they must get them from time to time. I bought the splined brass gear for a spare that the back gear tooth locks into complete with a spare pulley. I hope to convert mine to 3 phase and inverter as soon as I can. Regards Steve
Hi Steve. I think I must be missing something, but it appears to me that :
In stage 1 the right back jacking nut is adjusted to obtain a zero deflection of the micrometer, with the top nut locked down.
Then in stage 2 a series of tests are undertaken to reduce the 'taper' to zero. This however is achieved by altering the position of the same jacking nut and testing with the top nut locked down.
Surely adjusting the same jacking nut, and locking down the top nut during stage 2 renders the stage 1 adjustments pointless.
Its all in the Myford ML7 manual.
@@SteveJordan Many thanks for the reply Steve.
Please don't think I'm trying to teach you to suck eggs., I'm just a beginner compared to you, and a great deal of my recently acquired knowledge has come from viewing your videos.
I suppose that if it says this in the manual, it must be correct, but it still doesn't seem logical to go to all the trouble of setting the right rear, in the first test, only to alter it, when reducing the taper in the second test.
Am I right in saying that even if both of these methods are used, and the head is misaligned with the bed, the lathe will still not cut correctly
It is pointless ! What you have done just indicates that it is possible to twist the bed.
The Myford book uses the parallel bar and the DTI, set up to run concentric, both close to the chuck, and at the far end of the bar. Then, if you traverse the DTI along the length of the bar, you will be able to indicate the degree of twist in the lathe bed.
Adjust the jacking screws as shown to achieve zero deflection of the DTI.
Perform two runs with the DTI, one on the front surface of the bar, and one on the top surface. If these are both zero deflection, then the spindle axis is parallel to the plane and centre line of the bed ways.
Consistent change in error along the front surface indicates likely twist in the lathe bed whilst similar change in the top surface readings indicates that the headstock mounting surfaces require shimming.
Inconsistent error readings in both planes indicates wear in the bed !
Then try it all again, with a parallel mandrel between centres to check that the tailstock axis is also on the spindle axis . . .
That’s why, incidentally, the machine is correctly called a centre lathe !
When you have achieved all of that, do the test turning to prove that the machine will turn parallel, and you will have a machine that you can rely on !
Steve, why would you do the taper turning test without the tail stock and a live centre. I have a similar setup, with sacrificial pieces of alu locktited onto silver steel rod, but use the tail stock....
Hi Eben, This is the test as shown in the Myford ML7 manual on how to set the lathe up. If you used the tail-stock it would give a false reading and not show the true distortion in the lathe bed. Using the tail-stock would cancel out the movement of adjustment and make the distortion worse. This is because the tail-stock center would pull the end of the test piece bar over, in the twist-direction of adjustment, that is made using the jacking screws. Therefore not showing the twist in the ways...... For an example, just think... if you use the tail-stock and then raise the front right hand jacking screw. As it is raised, the lathe bed twists up at the front and the tail-stock center will effectively drag the test piece bar towards the back of the lathe....So then, when you take a new cut on the test piece bar,.... it will make it larger in diameter at the front end, when it should have been made smaller. Therefore making the distortion in the lathe bed worse than it was in the first place...... (Using the tail-stock drags the test piece bar in the twist-direction of jacking-screw adjustment.... Not using it drags the cutting tool in the twist-direction of the jacking-screw adjustment, therefore effectively removing all of the distortion in the lathe bed, when there is no taper on the test piece bar...It is very accurate and you can get all of the distortion out of the lathe bed!).......Thanks for watching....Regards Steve
Thanks for the quick reply ! Will ponder this till my brain makes sense of it and try it without the tailstock. Your myford videos are causing a lot of extra projects on my side - busy making a carriage stop and the morse2 drawbar chuck stop as well.
I'm not an expert but seems to me that you should adjust your tail stock after you do this procedure to be in alignment. I have very much enjoyed the learning of this video. Dale in Canada
hello steve.. laurence here.. i want to make some mt2 tapers using the offset tail stock method . which to me seems the easiest of all.. but,,,,on my ml10 its just two slotted grub screws that do the job i have loosened the big nut in the centre of the tail stock .to no avail..i have drenched all in oil and tapped lightly all around the joint line .. and no joy.. what do i do steve ?get a bigger hammer ?i think not .. salution please... regards laurence
Hi Laurence it may loosen up if you heat it up a bit with a gas torch? Only use soft mallets though you don't want to break it. Otherwise you could try soaking it for a few days in a bath of paraffin or diesel.
I have just adjusted my Myford, there is a .01mm difference between the Chuck end & free end. Is this close enough?
Hi It is very good what you have achieved and will be fine.
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@@SteveJordan thanks
How much did you pay for the raising blocks from RDG? I just checked on ebay and it says they're nearly £1000!
Hi RDG just put the price high up like this, when they have ran out of stock. It is so they can leave the listing up and running on Ebay until they have new ones ready for listing. Otherwise if they remove the listing they have to re-do it all again. I think I paid around 60 if I remember rightly. If you send them a message on the Ebay listing, they will tell you and approx date they will get them in and the price.
Thanks Steve, I've just bought a ML7 after years of searching, I finally found one literally a postcode away from me. You videos are proving to be very helpful. Keep it up!
Hi Steve it me again I have bought an ml7 which I am collecting tomorrow would u possibly have the total length of the lathe and width with motor I have a big 4 wheel drive estate jeep and I just need to make sure it will fit I have 77" in length and over 50 inches in width I am sorry to trouble u again david
I can measure it tomorrow although the measurements will be on the Myford UK site. Your vehicle will be ok to collect it as my brother delivered mine in a Hyundai I10 with the seats folded down.
Steve would this work for my 12"Atlas?
Hi Billy, I'm not familiar with the Atlas lathes. I just had a look on google images. If it is one with a similar bed design that bolts down on a bench I would say that it will work. If you do not have raising blocks for a lathe you can use shim to do the adjustment. (Using shim is even mentioned in the Myford handbook). When I first found out about lathe bed alignment like this I was really surprised that a heavy cast iron bed would twist like this under the pressure of the bolts. I have heard stories where lathes have had up to twenty thou distortion like this. If you bolt down on a good strong reasonably flat surface I reckon it will work on any lathe of similar design.
mkctools.com/craftsmanlathe.htm
this is the exact lathe I have. even the bench comes with these lathes because the drive is undermounted
Hi Billy That is a nice lathe. The method of alignment would work on all lathes that are bolted down.
What was the point in doing the first test when in the second, the adjustment is changed....??
Hi Jeff, You have to see whether it needs adjustment by doing the first test and find out which way to adjust it....Its all explained in the Myford ML7 manual. This is the exact procedure as written by the makers of the lathe and it works perfectly.
I think that with vibration and time and gravity the "leveling or un- instraining nuts" (depending on wich level origin you started with) will sink into the bed's cast iron ? the block&underfoot "shouldering or mating " surfaces aren t anymore what the myford engineers had first designed . it is better advised to find the proper metal shim thicknesses and the shims having at least the same cross section as the underfoot does. what is explained in the myford manuals is the way to determine the taper s direction , I ve never seen any mention of those leveling screws. the simpliest way is Mr. Lawrence H. Sparey' s one. The amateur's lathe 1948 , 1954 , 1960. Myfordly yours , Rene Levesque
Hi Rene, If you read the Myford ML7 Operation & Instillation manual you will see the raising blocks with levelling screws, (20/025) (others say jacking screws), are mentioned as the correct method of adjustment for the lathe bed. See paragraph at the top of page 12 in the handbook. The jacking screws made specifically for this purpose have a surface area which wont sink into the cast iron.
You can use metal shim, if you do not want to use the Myford Raising Blocks, but it would be much more of a job to get it right, having to lift the lathe each time an adjustment is necessary and then bolt it down again before checking.....it must be a lengthy and tiring process!! I would much rather use what Myford made specifically for the job like I have shown in the video.....Its a great design and works perfectly.
Sorry to reply so late , in the 1953 #701 publication there are no mention of the raising blocks. In the 1961publication #720j the raising blocks are mentioned. I own 1 super 7b on it s nottingham bench and I sold the raising blocks on ebay and leveled it as the Mr Sparey or first Myford publications method. I own a ml7gearboxed on it s Nottingham bench and this one too I leveled it on shims over aluminum blocks . And do own 1 super7gearboxed , 1 ml7 long bed gearboxed , another ml7 gearboxed and one hybrid of a super 7 headstock on a ml7 bed ( all those lathes aren t on original Nottingham benches) and they re all leveled on shims over aluminum blocks on fully metallic benches. The shouldering cross section bearing the underfoot area to the under supporting surface is of capital importancy , to absorb vibrations and distribute the stress , redo the same video but with aluminum blocks and shims and compare the movement of the indicator s needle then please come back and reply
Err just use a good quality engineers level across the bed when you tighten it down, Both methods equaly good I think.
The method I have shown is what Myford recommend in their ML7 handbook. Those quality engineer's levels are really expensive!
@@SteveJordan Yup I agree. I was in the lucky position of being given many years ago a top quality level by my Uncle.
@@SteveJordan I have just become the proud owner of a Super 7, and yes, I'll do it your/as per the manual way, as an engineer's level for what is probably a once-a-year check is not in the budget..
I know what you mean, my last lathe was .375" too high and it ruined everything...
@RIKARD NEW ZEALAND Get a life... it's a joke... You are in the wrong business.
procedimento non preciso , controllare allineamento testa !
Long sleeves not safe.
....
Thankyou Madam you are so thoughtful pointing this out.
Sorry but this "Tests" are Nonsense. When you don't know anything about the Geometrie of your Headstock. First Time you have to measure the Headstock with a tapert Testbar from the Taper of the Spindle. Then you can measuring the Twist of the bed. I build lathe's 38 years long and knowing a much about lathe's
I got the tests from the Myford handbook so they are straight from the makers of the actual lathe. I would rather trust them on this set up.