12 Reasons to NOT BUY/AVOID a Myford ML7 Lathe
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 มิ.ย. 2023
- A #Myford #ML7 #lathe has been the backbone of british #modelengineering for decades, but there are some things you MUST know before taking the plunge.
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I am a qualified fitter and turner from the marine industry and have worked on many lathes. There will always be down falls on what ever lathe you work on or own. I have a SL7 and find the the quality very good. It was built in 1952 and still going strong. You need to understand also how morse tapers work and some body else has already taken you to task over this. The beds of these are cast iron as cast iron has good self lubricating qualities. Cast iron is also very stable and will not twist or distort easily. Ian - New Zealand
Even then the bed not being hardened shouldn't be an issue as the two iron surfaces should be running on an oil film, not each other. The only lathes I've seen with shagged out beds are badly abused machines where basic preventative mantenance was neglected.
Also if anyone needs to adjust the spindle bearings on one of these, with the light use they get, they're either abusing it or using the wrong oil. Unless it's being flogged 10 hours a day, 5 days a week in a machine shop, those spindle bearings should outlast all of us.
I worked at Philips, Oldelft, Vof Decomo and other manufactures of high end optical, medical and military equipment. I NEVER saw brands like Myford and that other holy brand Emco. It always was AI Hembrug, Weiler, Maho, TOS, AVM, Cazeneuve, Mondiale, Schaublin, Sixis, Colchester, Potisje but never Myford or Emco. Those are nice lathes but for hobbyists and education.
Yes, the Myford ML7 does have some foibles, but for me it is a beautiful machine, it is well designed, and it's character isn't seen on modern machines, You do learn to 'understand' your particular lathe and know its strengths and weaknesses, it does become part of you, and you respect its character. I do hope that you fall in love with your machine, it sounds weird , but it happens! All the best. Ade
Hi Ade, I agree - it's a wonderful piece of industrial design. As I said in the video there's nothing at all that I dislike about it and the proof of it's use as the backbone of model engineering workshops since the 1940's proves that! It would be nice to have a larger bore, powered cross-feed and a gearbox/lever setup, but not at all required and I see no reason to change or upgrade.
Moi j'ai un Emco maxi super 11 désolé mais il n'a pas tous ces problèmes là il est toujours au top de la précision et il a presque 50 ans.
Myford is made from English cast iron ( albeit soft ), not milk bottle tops Chinesium . Harkens back to a time when we used to make stuff, rather than just answer phones in call centres
It comes in an amazing grey colour ( plus green and aqua for the 7’s and hammerite for the 10’s).
I agree with all your points there - I'll almost always buy used british/american/european than new, but sometimes it's not possible or really completely unfeasible. I love the way the grey looks with the red tray and lamp.
Complete rot.
Lots of Asian manufactures build anywhere from bad to brilliant machinery.
Yeh, you used to make stuff, like Lucas electrics.
@@thosoz3431Chinese stuff is mostly shite
@@thosoz3431 Good point about Lucas crap. As you say if you're willing to pay reasonably proportionate prices then there are plenty of very accurate asian lathes available. You gets what you pays for.
@@thosoz3431 Lucas works well for me, you just have to set it up right.
Just a couple of points. The ML7 is 20 inches between centres, not 14. The tang on morse tapers is purely to eject them from sockets using a wedge, If the drive is being taken by the tang there is something wrong with either the taper or socket.
Thank you! I feel like I should do a follow-up video with all of the comments and corrections I’ve been given!
@@williamsworkshopuk We all had to learn and all made/make mistakes. I hope you don't take comments like mine as criticism. We are trying to help.
The tang is not purely for ejecting with a wedge, if it was the drill presses would not have a tang slot inside the bore, why would they bother then, they would just make hole. MrPete222 has done some good videos on this topic recently.
@@mv2442drill press tools still need to be ejected
@@heybabycometobutthead Obviously, but why make it a tang, a round flat end would work more then fine enough.
Having used a Myford 7 in high school metalwork class and then a Sheraton at work, American lathes at university, then in the last few years a Chinese lathe for hobby use, I've always considered the Myford horribly expensive junk. So it is refreshing to see an English person try honestly to be objective about it, though William's comment about tangs on morse taper tooling is incorrect.
Morse tapers are designed to grip on the taper, and they work just fine for centering and drilling as the load is axial. Morse taper chucks should not be used in milling machines where there are side loads of course.
Myford 7's were ok in high schools where they never got much use and therefore not much wear, but are capable of doing everything a metalwork school teacher wants to teach - lathe safety, basic cylinder and face turning, thread cutting, and taper turning, selecting the correct speed, how to correctly grind a tool bit and the consequences of getting speed and tool geometry wrong.
So many English guys say they would never consider an Asian lathe because "Myford is best" - seems to a form of "'But It's British" silly thinking.
It's kind of like preferring to buy a 1950 Morris Minor (albeit in good condition) at a BMW price when you can have an up to date Toyota Corrolla for a fraction of the price. You cannot be thinking if you buy a Myford.
The fact is, with Asian lathes you get as big a lathe for a fraction of the price, greater rigidity, proper V-ways, and a nice safe cam-lock or longitudinally bolted chuck mounting, which means you can have an emergency brake, as well as run backwards.
Don't overlook the value of a large spindle bore. It will save you a lot of money in materials over time, as not having to remove the job and turn it around until you finally part off will mean a lot less wastage of material, less wastage of time, and greater accuracy. It is a lot less frustrating if you need to make several identical things. I have found that a 35 mm spindle bore covers most hobby jobs.
Good video, William. For info, the tang of the Morse taper is to eject it. The taper is a shallow angle so that it 'wedges' in the socket. This provides the friction to resist the torque of a drill or other tool. There would be no need for a taper if the tang provided the drive. It requires clean tapers without damage to work properly.
Thanks for the info! A few people have mentioned it and I should clarify that in a follow-up!
@@williamsworkshopuk I have cut the tang off the chuck i use on my Seeley/Clarke/Warco lather as it just makes the chuck stick out too far and wastes 15mm drilling capacity. Its not used for drive and stilll self ejects.
Good analysis William. I am lucky enough to have a Super 7 lathe which has a simpler backgear arrangement. Other points to consider are that most of us don't do screwcutting all that often, so the hassle of changewheels isn't too bad even if, like me, you don't have a gearbox. Likewise, long taper turning isn't needed all that often and can be achieved by setting over the tailstock if you really have to: short tapers aren't a problem with a topslide. Unscrewing of the chuck or faceplates when running in reverse can often be overcome by using a drawbar arrangement provided that you don't need to pass the workpiece through the spindle.All in all, I'm very happy with my Myford: there are times when I would like a larger lathe and times when I prefer to use my Unimat 3, but there is a practical limit to the tools one can have and there is a lot to be said for learning to use what you do have and becoming familiar and comfortable with that. You can often get better results that way. My lathe doesn't have hardened bedways, but I keep it clean and well lubricated and will leave it to my grandchildren or great-grandchildren to worry about excessive wear given that the lathe is a hobby machine for me and not receiving heavy continuous use. Best wishes.
I too have a Super 7 (as well as an ML7) and it is constantly surprising and delightful how much better it is. Many small things add up to a big thing.
Another way to prevent chuck unscrewing is to make a close-fitting split clamp - a ~75 x 75 square piece of steel plate about 14mm thick bored to suit the protruding collar on the back of the backplate, slit from one side into the hole and with a beefy cap screw to close the slit and squeeze that collar onto the register so that it becomes impossible to unscrew. This is the same principle used in "shrink-disk" couplings, it does not cause any permanent deformation because there is minimal clearance to be taken up, hence minimal strain, hence minimal stress (essentially just compressive stress, not bending)
good analysis! and explanation of the "faults" and strong points. I was lucky enough to be able to rescue a ml7 from rusting away in a garage as it was given to be because of the interest i had in the machine and the owner not having the time wo fix her up and use it. so i got really lucky there :) one little thing to add as a perhaps some what of a down side is its relative low top spindle rpm of 640rpm
Well William, i thought you was on a real downer there, but looks like your happy after all. Its swings and roundabouts with different makes and models, at the end of the day you hit the nail on the head, many cracking model engineers have made outstanding models on these, also it's not the machine its the person using it, who gets the best out of any machine. You ought to see what i had to contend with when i was an apprentice!!!!, But my tutor's reponse to me was if you learn on these machines you will be able to use any machine, the ones i was on to start off were ex mod, making artillery etc.
Nice overview of the myford though, imperialistic old school is the best👍👍🚂🚂
see you next time
Kev
HA! Well, as I say towards the end it's a tool which has been sufficient for generations of model engineers and if there's something you can't do on it, the problem likely lies at your own feet! The only thing I would like is a Tri-Leva attachment - the gearbox I could miss out because I rarely cut screwthreads and so the extra 5 mins to change gears isn't the end of the world.
I love all the old machines, there's a lovely book called "Tools for the Job" which talks about the evolution of the drill, mill, lathe, boring machine, etc. and to follow it to see the Myford in my workshop is just lovelyt.
@@williamsworkshopukcheers i will take a look at the book sometime sounds interesting, i wouldn't be without my tri leva
atb
Kev
This was a very interesting video, thanks. When we went shopping for a lathe we started looking for a Myford ML7 but I am very pleased we ended up with a Colchester Master even if the headstock is noisy on these machines. It is the perfect size for our projects and we got it because we could not find a Myford at the time
How old is your Master ?
Mine is 1942 and I love it.
I agree about the noisy headstock by the way.
@@stevewilliams2498 I think ours is 1952, we have a few videos of it on my channel
I upgraded from an ML1 to a 7 and I love it. It's got quirks but it's part of the experience. As a hobby user I'm not doing production, I don't need to save a minute engaging the back gear.
The oilers, yep, a pain.
Good video, thanks.
A very good appraisal of the Venerable Myford.
I gree with all you said and play on 2 Colchesters myself in my retirement PlayPen.😊
However I have to raise a point that Mr. Pete has flogged to death recently by quoting (or paraphrasing to be accurate) from the official Dormer drill data and specification documents.
The tang on a Morse Taper drill is for ejecting the drill and NOT for driving.
It requires very good housekeeping to ensure that the tapers, internal and external are kept clean otherwise they start slipping.
As evidenced by the number of gauled, scored and grooved drill tapers and spindle bores found in many workshops.
The twisted off tangs that you will find is also evidence that the tang is not designed or intended to transmit drive.
A classic case of "just because it can .. doesn't mean it should".
Thank you for that - clearly a fundamental misunderstanding of the tangs, I do apologise!
@@williamsworkshopuk
No apology needed.
If you follow Mr. Pete 222 (Tubalcain 😉) you will see it is a widely debated principle but I stand by the "just because you can" analogy.
And trust the manufacturer.
Sorry, but the tang on the drill is to remove it from sleeves etc. The taper does the driving, not the tang
I quite simply cannot understand the fascination with Myford lathes, particularly when you have just pointed out all the faults. My brother in law has one, plus a larger type of mini lathe. He seems to use the mini lathe far more than the Myford., which he bought because it was being offered at a really good price, only a couple of 100's, but the he doesn't use it. A full spec Connoisseur is now nearly £13K new, a Chester Coventry Pro is 1/2 that, others are available. I just bought a Chester Bristol VS with CSS, ex university, less than 12 years old for 1/2 the price of the Myford. I don't need to worry about the hole down the spindle, it's 52mm.
I do general lathe and car/engine machining, thought about a ML7 years ago but bought a bigger Raglan variable speed lathe, overhauled it bought appropriate tooling loved it, but eventually moved on to a Colchester Student square head 24" gap bed, again overhauled it , converted to single phase, (would now use inverter) quick change carbide tooling, now looking at fitting a DRO, but will probably get a longer bed Student or Triumph. What I have taken away from this is, if the machine is in good relatively unworn condition, you can do tiny work on a big lathe, but not vise versa. Nice if you've got 3 phase. I bought a lot of lathes about 25 years ago when all the small factories and machine shops were going out of business as the Nations industries declined, very sad, but they were almost being given away, now they've all gone they are becoming more valuable. Don't buy ancient machines. Go medium size. Jesus is coming back soon.
I love my ML7 made in 1954 was a bit expensive but come on you can pay much more for modern rubbish,when I bought mine it came with boxes of drills and chucks books etc well worth the money in my opinion,some of the things you mention are correct but it’s still giving me a lot of pleasure making things for my classic car,I know people that would spend the equivalent on a drinking weekend.
I'm not sure many people could spend £800+ on a drinking weekend but I do get your point. Mine came with a three- and four-jaw set of chucks, a rather ropey live centre and little else. In retrospect I think a chap had bought an ML7R and swapped all the duff bits from his two onto one ML7 and then sold me that. Having said that the guts of it are very solid and I agree with you completely that it should be 'all that is needed'.
Great video. I wholeheartedly agree with the drawbacks you mentioned, along with the positives. My TOS MN80 suffers from much the same issues you brought up here, but it being an obscure machine with a relatively small but dedicated fanbase, most issues are solved by engineering new solutions. The leadscrew changewheel system is a prime example, it is now en vogue to mount ELS systems to these machines, and you may consider it yourself if you get fed up with it. It can be done without permanent modifications to the base machine if that is an issue. As for the headstock bearings, they arent too challenging a part to make, so id suggest you make a pair while yours are still good, itll save a lot of heartache and dosh, ask me how i know😑
They are popular because over the years propaganda has conned model engineers that the Myford is the ONLY machine to have.
For 20 years I have used a Colchester Chip master which I purchased from small engineering company for £400.
This machine takes up the same floor space as a Myford on a stand. Check the specs for the Colchester, for example the spindle bore is over 30mm.
Thanks fir this. It is most helpful. I'm just selling my Portass S which I purchased with inadequate knowledge and has not been all it could have been. I've been inclined away from myfords for many of the reasons you give especially price but your observations and experience are valuable in informing my decision on what is to replace it. Thanks jim
I’m glad you found it helpful, but please do make your own decision!
Many of the issues you mention were fixed on the newer version. You just need to upgrade. :) When tuned properly, this is the Bentley of lathes. Amazing machine!
To a Super7B?
Ive got a 1949 ML7, its a great little lathe. Very versatile.
But the million pound question: would you swap it for a Colchester student?
@williamsworkshopuk I'd love a bigger lathe, but I simply don't have the room for one. But I've managed to do bigger machining jobs on the Myford than I'd expected to be able to do, including some milling operations using the vertical slide.
I like some of the features of the ML7, especially the gap. The thing that I don't like is the box bed ways. Much prefer more modern prismatic ways as one sees on Boxford on your side of the pond or South Bend, Clausing, Logan, etc. here. When a box way starts to wear it is tough to adjust the gibs for fee movement but without rattle. A friend had a very pristine example but the bed was worn at the headstock end and to function properly it would require either scraping or grinding the ways to be parallel again. The ML7 has lots of mystique but not my cuppa.
Golden oldy design! But you can get a lot more (modern) lathe for the buck from Taiwan & they come standard with many of the things that Myford charges a small fortune for as accessories. As a hobbyist I still value my my time. I'd rather be making things than fiddling with change gears or time consuming tooling changes. Those feed dials give nice approximations if that's what you work to. About size: it does matter! Swing over the cross slide is, for me, the most important measurement. For small work (less than 30mm) collet chucks have multiple advantages. Be safe, have fun!
I have a myford m.l.10 now just finished setting it up. got a stand for it an original drip tray and the original raising blocks. The lathe was £570 and in good condition. All I have to do now is learn how to use it. Mainly got to re bush clock mainspring barrels, but should imagine now plenty more jobs regarding clock repair. I also have a watchmakers lathe, that is quite small. Thank you for the reply.
Very nice, thank you for commenting
I have an ML 7 which I've owned for about ten years. Checking it's serial number with LathesUK's list it dates back to 1949 or five years younger than me. It's in reasonable condition with minimal wear on the bed ways and spindle bearings. When I bought it it had no means of lubricating the pulley stack on the spindle shaft. Only a problem if you use back gears a lot. I rectified mine by purchasing a used pulley stack with the relevant lubricators from a machine dismantler in UK . I have also purchased SL 7 cross slide, longer, and feed screw, top slide and feed screw (because both got rid of the horrible Mazak dials). I added the handwheel at the end of the lead screw to enable some measurement of the cross slide travel. Other procurements/projects have been a vertical slide with adjustable surfaces in horizontal and vertical planes, genuine Myford new, traveling and fixed steady rests (aftermarket kits from Hemingway in UK) and a modified stand from a Chinese lathe by Busy Bee Tools in Canada. A four jaw, direct mounting, chuck, a 5C collet chuck, I made my own, direct mounting, ER 25 collet chuck, drawbar for Morse taper 2 attachments and various hold down jigs for the vertical slide and cross slide tables to enable milling functionality. The tool post was replaced with a Geo Thomas style four way but was soon replaced with an off shore AXA sized quick change tool post and numerous tool holders and indexable cutters for carbide inserts.
Am I satisfied with the machine. Overall yes. It's done most of what I've asked of it but a few things would have made an SL 7 a better choice. I'd have liked a longer bed and auto cross feed, a longer top slide capability, hardened ways, maybe a taper attachment which I have plans to make myself one day. Now that I own a milling machine some of the milling that was done on the lathe can be more ably transfered to that. Who knows I might even get "Minnie" finished after having started it on a 2nd hand Unimat SL1 over 40 years ago.
Hi William. Thank you for the honest “review”. I am fortunate to have a Myford Super 7 which addresses some of the shortcomings of the ML7. Overall I am delighted to own and use an “old school” British built lathe which suits my needs and has capabilities beyond my abilities.
All the best. Andrew 👏👏👍😀
I doubt most of the hardened engineers like yourself you view my channel will get much value out of a video like this but it's the kind of thing I'd like to have known before embarking. I too am very happy to 'buy British' in this regard!
@@williamsworkshopuk Hi William. Oh my, I’m not a hardened engineer by any imagination. Pure hobbyist enjoying a retirement hobby and eager to learn something new every day. Your video is indeed what I would have wanted when I started out a few years ago. It’s also still relevant to me today. Here’s to your next one. 👍
It’s 10’ clearances with a faceplate or between centres. The most important is the ready supply of spares. Also very disappointed you didn’t mention the plethora of myford accessories. Just a free, quick release collet Chuck, travelling and static steadies, vertical and angled vertical slides, lever operated tailstock, extra long cross slide, rear cutting tool post, lever and wheel cut off slides, two different capstan turrets for bulk part machining( simple attaches to cross slide & full carriage replacement version complete with a selection of capstan tools. Circular saw table, and my favourite a fully self contained dividing head with interchangeable dividing plates- myford spindle compatible with chucks and collets and a between centeres bar- mountable in different configurations it can be used to drill hole circles, cut gears, mill flutes in columns and many other things. It’s my fav tool once I built an excel spreadsheet to do all the calculations for me. The ability to mount any myford Chuck allows you to machine parts directly on the lathe the transfer the Chuck with work for further operations. Steve
That's a great point - Do you think it's worth addressing in a follow-up? I was considering doing another video at some point to talk about a general introduction to the lathe for beginners?
@@williamsworkshopuk it would be useful if you covered some of the accessories many of which are not available for other makes. I can send you copies of brochures if you want pictures to illustrate your videos. E.g. I havnt seen anything covering travelling and static steadies. And absolute silence on the myford dividing head. Steve
@@steveallen8987 I have a fixed steady myself, actually! Please do send me the catalogues I would be happy to do a video on them! :) will ayerst (at) (g) mail (com)
You were right the first time. Awful things. That's just my opinion tbough...my friend Mitch is a luthier and he swears by his. I have a Harrison lathe. I thought your film was excellent, your description and explanation was extremely clear and your filming was superb. I have a channel too where my main project is restoring a Harrison mill. I'd like to invite you to take a look. Again, i enjoyed your film a lot and I have subscribed.
I've had several lathes in my time, starting with a Zyto (Hmmm) when I was 13 back in the 60s. The ML7 sans motor was £81 and just a dream back then. I had an ML7, a Super 7 and a 254 since. The ML7 looked space age in the 50s compared with many offerings of that time, but in my opinion all Myford stuff is the machine tool equivalent of a hair shirt . They're far too skinny and lightweight. The whole Myford sales ethos was to sell 'collectable' accessories after you'd bought the basic lathe. The first thing you'd need was a motor, then a chuck, and a stand and a starter and so on, and on. If you added all the extras, you could have bought a proper machine. Another analogy might be the Model Engineering equivalent of collecting Pokemon cards or something. Take a look at a good Harrison M250 long bed, and put a DRO on it if it hasn't got one already. If it comes with both steadies, you're laughing. And don't bother with the Rishton vertical mill attachment. If it's got one, take it off and sell it and buy a proper milling machine instead.
Thanks, good sound information. Appreciated. 😊
Glad it was helpful!
A reasonable appraisal. As a retired Engineer who many years ago designed a few zinc injection moulding tools I remember calling Mazak (Mayzak). It being the British version of the American product "Zamak". Basically it is Zinc with a few additives to help it flow into mould tools. We are British not Americans. My second point is more important. I see a lot of ML7's having the beds reground rather than the owner just setting to & deep cleaning the ways. These lathes have stood for many years in dusty environments with the one part of the bed being used. clean the dirt off it before you assume that it is worn. There is an equal chance that the dirt build up has made the rest of the bed oversize. My second point concerns the saddle. It uses the front pair of vertical shears for its alinement. The one place these lathes do ware is with the short middle shear on the underside of the saddle. The best mod to make is to alter this to use the saddle rear shear. This gives the lathe a new lease of life.
I have one further item of advice. The way oil specified is a 32 grade oil which dates back to the year dot, so to speak. You can replace this old out of date oil with a modern Synthetic 32 grade oil Sewing Machine Oil. With this on your bed & in the bearings the lathe will float on modern oil that flushes out the dirt properly.
The ML7 is a classic for model engineering. You can’t go wrong with it. In England, these are often holed up in tiny sheds. In the states we have the venerable south bend 9 in lathe which is comparable to an ML7. The demand has certainly pushed these lathes up in value. Colchester is another class and a Student or Better is massively heavier. You can go with an ML7 or you can go to say a Hardinge or monarch or colchester which is expensive. My monarch 10EE cost more than my truck!!!!
I agree you can't go wrong with an ML7 but I think I agree with your point - a Colchester Student (for example) is way more lathe for your money.
the Boxford lathe is the one that is more comparable with the Southbend 9". Both the Southbend and the Boxfords have prismatic vee bed rails which is a better and more stable design than the Myford flat bed rails type.
Pretty good analysis overall. Of all the annoyances you mention, there's only two that I'd take exception to - not many tailstocks have allowances for tangs, and threaded spindle noses are not really an issue for most people (and a clamp on the backplate / faceplate a la Schaublin removes the issue entirely).
The main reason I'd avoid a myford is that wallered out examples go for a small fortune. The rest is all swings and roundabouts. Some bits are a bit fiddly, but - well - hobbyists, innit. It's a big solid chunk of cast iron, not made of chinesium.
Oh, the dials are made of zamak, not mazak. Mazak make big CNC machines :)
Thank you chum, do you think it’s worth doing a follow up with the kind corrections people have given me like yourself?
@@williamsworkshopuk If you think there's enough material there to warrant a video, sure. It's all grist for the almighty algorithm, after all 👍
Hi folks. I subscribed! Watch the end first! Then the beginning ..... First this is a very old model. Apparently about 65 - huh, still younger than me though! Later ones are much better. (I was thinking of my son ....) Also more expensive ..... Yup, I bought Chinese as I thought that a Myford was too expensive. Quality wise though there is no comparison. The pre-new release Myfords were essentially hand built and fitted - the conical main headstock bearing even being scraped in by hand for example. None of that taper roller bearing nonsense. There are a variety of built in adjustments for wear as well which are not mentioned here. They really are better called 'Instrument Lathes' and if you want to build say a horizon indicator for your Concorde they would be just the thing. There are a plethora of designs for upgrades available and usually there is a way around the constraints. Fabulous investment - I made a big mistake there.
Is the myford ML 10 better then, I was thinking of getting one. To use on rebushing clock mainspring barrels.
ML10 is a smaller version - for clocks you could consider an Emco Unimat/Peatol/Teag/etc. ? An ML7 will serve you very well either way - see Chronova Engineering's channel?
First - great info from someone who has the experience.
Like you i found the Myford ML7 a faff to use. I was lucky to own a ML7 with gearbox and trilever attachment, then fitted a DRO and VFD, even after this it was still a pain to use. Eventually replaced it with a Harrison M300, so much easier and faster to work with. The Myford was a lovely lathe to look at though.
The same can be said for the South Bend lathes People are willing to pay way too much for an obsolete machine. The construction of that Myford is very similar to the American Atlas machines except that the Atlas uses two tapered roller bearings on the spindle.I have had my fill of changing gears on a lathe
I don’t do it often enough for it to matter, but I agree with you
Thanks for the video. Your face plate looks brand new. Myfords are very expensive here in Australia, if you can find them.
ML7's in general are expensive for what you get. Hopefully I presented a balanced opinion on whether or not it's worth it! The faceplate looks like it's been basically unused from new!
I have a ML7 and it's been very good. I agree the spindle bore should be bigger . there are many good features and the best is that spares are easily available. Try fitting a VFD and 3 phas e motor it saves messing about with the belts.
Interesting. I just got an ML10 because of limited space, but a good reason to go with a Myford is the thousands of videos available for it from restoration, repair and use.
You're absolutely right, of course - the corpus of knowledge on a Myford vs say, Boxford - is incomparable.
I have the late model super 7 ,induction hardened bedways ,gearbox , power crossfeed it is super precise and far superior to the old ml7 which I used to own I honestly use it as my go to lathe amongst the others as it is so easy to use
I have one too. I love it
Hi William you had me worried at first, lol I was lucky I got a super 7 with the gearbox leadscrew handle and tp indicator , so far I have been very happy
Oh you lucky devil - at first I thought the jump in cost to a Super7 was ridiculous but if I were to buy a Myford again it'd almost certainly be a big bore,. long bed Super7. I think for that kind of money I'd be better off with a different brand though...
@@williamsworkshopuk yup mabey a Colchester or some thing similar
Great video. I wait to see as we have just been given one for our Men's Shed and I have initial reservations. I have never used a Myford, but have experience with Boxford As, Colchester Bantams and a slightly larger Taiwanese made lathe. The Shed also has Proton mini lathe which looks an easier starting point for novices. I think the point is that the Myford is not just a lathe, and a few attachments, it is a System. It's a bit like the difference between a point and shoot camera and a quality DSLR system camera. Accessories are available to suit your needs, but you need skill and knowledge to make the best of it.
Sorry for not replying earlier - I started with an Emco Unimat which was great to get me to understand what I was doing, but I don't regret the ML7. I do regret not going for something bigger though!
Thanks for sharing 👍
Good analysis. It is amazing that a lathe can be made for so many years without its major shortcomings being addressed. I use both a Super 7 at my local Men's Shed and my own Taiwanese lathe from the 60s. The larger capacity, greater bore, and gearbox of this make using the Myford a chore. I do not worry about the dials- a lathe without a DRO is just way too primitive to use seriously. Yes, you can, but why would you. They are not expensive and easy to fit.
Yes, from a very objective point of view there is little serious justification for a Myford over a larger lathe - but then, we don't live in a utilitarian world! I have thought about an upgrade to a Super 7 Big Bore, but it's got an even more strange spindle thread than the typical Myford one and for that money I could end up with alot more for my cash going for a Boxford, Harrison, etc.
@@williamsworkshopuk Agreed- it is the jewelry syndrome. People buy names rather than functionality. It is true of most areas, so why should home engineering be different?
I domt use DRO on my lathes. I would never be without one on a milling machine. But on a manual lathe I prefer not to put scales in the way limiting the positioning of the sled and the tailstock.
I have a Colchester Student lathe and am very pleased with it. I would never buy a Myford lathe because it has limited features. I have equipped my lathe with a frequency converter so that I do not need three-phase power, a simple singel phase socket is sufficient.
My ML7 is 71 years old and is an amazing piece of gear for what it is. The Mazak dials can be machined to be adjustable. It is a few hour project. I did both of mine.
Do you have any more information on how to make them adjustable? I keep telling myself I'm going to paint them and wipe off from the raised markings to make it clear but I never get around to it!
I have what I feel is the USA equivalent of the Myford and its a Rivett 608! I also have a Clausing "round head" 13 plus I used to own a Southbend "heavy" 10. A Myford seems similar to the Atlas lathes.
I bought a myford and restored it for my first lathe and i realy like it. I live in a metric world but the plans for my loco are imperial so its handy in that regard. Yes there is probably heaps of better lathes but i like the old school feel. I cant see myself upgrading anytime soon for the small hobby work i do.
I think most of us live in a metric world these days - I agree with your points!
Brilliant and spot on!
Not sure it's brilliant per-se, but I thought I'd collect my thoughts on it and I'm glad you enjoyed!
Nice video and love your lathe, but I must correct you on the morse taper socket . The tang on the end is for extraction only, and is driven purely by the taper a very common misconception.
You are mistaken. The tang insures the taper will not be damaged by spinning. The tang is not needed to extract with a drift. The internal taper length just needs to reach the slot. I have never need a drift on a lathe tailstock, because the tailstock screw is designed to force it out. You really only need a drift to separate taper adapters. Reverend
Even tapers that have drawbars, that pull the taper tight, have keys. With the exception of a collet system in the headstock, which is pulled in to the taper very tightly, and limited to diameters of less than an inch. The tailstock taper, is not pulled in with a drawbar, and can not be trusted to hold large diameter drills. The taper insures consistent repeatability, but the tang insures the drill will not spin under a heavy load. Live and dead centers are not subject to the torque that drills are subject to.
At 10:50 Why do you feel the need to run your lathe in the reverse direction?? The only occasion I can think of is when turning "oddball" thread pitches (realistically, metric threads on a lathe with an imperial leadscrew, or imperial threads on a lathe with a metric leadscrew) where the entire screw cutting operation must be completed without opening/disengaging the split nut. When this is necessary, you are not actually cutting metal on your return pass to your starting point, and therfore not applying any torque through the spindle nose screwthread.
If you're threading up against a shoulder then running in reverse and away from that shoulder is a safer option, no?
@@williamsworkshopuk True. It would be somewhat unconventional, and I've not done it, but there is no reason to suppose it wouldn't work. The tool would have to be upside-down, or rightways up and placed behind the workpiece.
BTW my late father was a fan of a rear parting off tool post, placed on the farmost end of the cross slide, with the tool inverted. I cannot begin to explain why it produced good results, but in my experience (and his) it did.
BTW also, screw-on chuck mountings are not confined to Myfords. Some years ago, I bought an ancient Harrison L5, which had a screw-on chuck mounting. I might be wrong, but I would have said that non-screw-on mountings (camlocks, L0, L1, L2......) are confined to the bigger lathes. My Colchester Student has an L0 chuck mount. If you have ever used one you will know why, as it is fitted with a headstock spindle brake. Over-enthusiastic use of which would easily cause a chuck to screw itself off and drop on the floor.
One interesting point is the great value that the ML7 represented when it first came out. It was £34 in 1946 and using the BoE inflation calculator that is less than £1200 today. If they were knocking them out to sell at that price today they would do a roaring trade.
But that £34 basic lathe price in 1946 was "ex works" and didn't include a chuck (just a backplate) or a motor or Purchase Tax which, at the time, was 30%.
@@mgnbukint6502 indeed, but despite that I think it still represented great value and I suspect would end up a long way short of the £6000 that one seems to have to spend on a "new" one now once it was complete.
@@ColinMill1 Different times. "Modern" Myford is a cottage industry turning out low volumes of a niche product. "Old" Myford in the 40's 50's 60's was a mass producer - a Myford brochure for their rebuild / regrind services mentions production figures of 500 lathes a month ! The ML7 was designed to be mass produced down to a price using, for the time, cutting edge methods like die cast parts. Production costs (an thus retail prices) look very different if your are buying parts to make 500 machines a month vs. a couple of dozen a year. And I do agree that the current prices of Mytholmroyd Myfords do not compare well with Chinese built machines offered here - you can knock off a lot of rough edges for the £3 or £4 K difference !
@@mgnbukint6502 Yes, like so much else we used to make competitively we lost out in market share and that was the slippery slope we slid down. I have to say governments have not helped - I had a small company that held its own in a specialist electronics area but once customers found they could buy my Japanese competitor's product direct from a Hong Kong shop and (thanks to false invoices) got them into the UK without paying vat or import duty giving them about a 27% advantage it was not so easy! Have Customs and Excise put a stop to it? No - it's still rife.
The Myford was the best of not very many choices that were available at a price point which was affordable for many hobby users to purchase, we now live in an era where manual lathes are worth (in first world countries) a tiny fraction of their original value, so much better machinery is available in used form to hobby users, or brand new Asian made machines with modern features for reasonable cost that just require some re work and common problems sorting.
I have a Smart and brown model A were very cheap 5 plus years ago £400 and very ridgid and accurate,But vey heavy. I also have every attachment made for it, but are expensive ro buy separate.
Nice presentation
Glad you liked it
I always forget to turn the spindle oilers off. I keep a rag in the chip pan to absorb the resulting oil runoff.
I am in the market for a small lathe similar to this but i am ised to my more modern 660x3300 (metric milimeters)lathe at work , i mostly want this small lathe to make small metal parts like bowls and downstems for smoking apparatus
There is tons of older machine that are still nice for home machinist.
And lathe tend to grow faster in capacity with size than milling machines.
My first lathe, a chinese BV20 was roughly 1m long, 90kg (210x400mm). Good precision but has limits.
My new old 1950's lathe is 1,6m long, but 360x610mm capacity, 900kg. And has a 36mm bore, with gearboxes, longitudinal and transversal feet, true hardened steel bedways (0.04mm wear in 70 years!). Oh and it cost me less than a new chinese lathe.
Yeah, I'm a big fan of older machines as I think my channel illustrates :)
Yes, the little Myford are nice, but way too expensive.
I have a 4 1/2" Boxford (model A) with a gearbox for screwcutting and power feed (it has power crossfeed too). The headstock bore is a bit small (21mm) for my work (gun smithing mostly) but it's 26" + between centres. When I got it it was an old friend, exactly the same model I had learned lathe work on at school back in the 1950s in the UK. It was actually ex-Education Dept. NZ and came with Metric conversion gears.... handy..... I traded for it, value about $900 (450 quid).
A friend has an ML7, but recently bought a small Chinese Bench (Hafco) lathe which is very good and far more versatile, and in fact he could recoup most of what he paid for it by selling the Myford should he choose to do so.
Yes, I guess maybe one hidden benefit is that the Myfords will (appear to) never go down in value so you can always get back what you paid for them? I've been thinking about the case for a Super7 Big Bore and I'm not sure how much more the extra 1/4" is going to matter!
you mentioned two other lathe makes in the video, i would like a video explaining what would be a better value lathe to buy as a newbie starter lathe with good options for later use
I looked at these, & saw the prices. No, thanks! I went with Chester, & haven't regretted it once.
Definitely a strange value proposition for Myfords - it's a combination of hobby and tool for me though...
In the Netherlands Emco and Myford has become cult brands and expansive. I can buy a mint condition Schaublin or AI hembrug for the same price or less. I never seen Emco and Myford in the high end workshops like those of Oldelft and Philips. But i saw AI Hembrug and Schaublin there. I dont have to think long about which one to buy.
Nice video, being from mainland Europe I wasn't sure what the appeal of the Myford ML7 lathe was.
It being a classic design with a lot of history I can see why people like it.
That being said I'll stick with my 1000kg Ramo industrial lathe that I got for a comparable price the Myfords are going for around here.
You're quite right of course, there's nothing intrinsically unique about them and I think I may have chosen a larger machine for a comparable price if I had the knowledge I have now - certainly there's no special sauce. It's a bit like guitars where the brand and percieved quality seem to matter more than the actual functionality.
@@williamsworkshopuk I will say though mine doesn’t have a gap bed
I've used a Super-7 for making little parts, but I still prefer my Bantam 800. I'd like a 1600, but cant find one at the right price.
If you have a personal opinion on the ml10 I'm interested
I agree with you, these seem like an old die hard lathe to me. I bought a second hand Emco Mentor and it would leave the Myford for dead and its 1970s.
A belt driven lathe would drive me nuts today. Too slow to operate - and that also includes winding a handle on variable speed drive lathes. The slotted cross slide is the most useful Myford feature for model engineers, but sadly not present on most other lathes.
I think I could leave without a gearbox but seriously considering some way to get myself a tri-leva headstock...
@@williamsworkshopuk 3 phase motor and VFD works nice too.
Nice one !!
Thank you! Cheers!
had a ML7, replaced it with a Boxford, which was far cheaper and better. Myfords have a premium which I don't think is deserved
I think at this stage, it’s just convention that everything is already entered around on Myford ML7 for typical beginners work - but that’s changing now they’ve been out of production for so long and cheaper, Chinese machines are becoming far more prevalent.
@@williamsworkshopuk do most of my machine work for veteran vehicles on a 1912 Drummond dual height, and a 1941 Fiedler and Schubert mill. Indestructible old lumps.
Zamac, not mazak.
Mazak is a machinery manufacturer zamac is the material.
Avout the size of the machine: you cant load a truck in a matchbox but you can can load a matchbox in a truck.
People dont fool yourself, a small lathe is for small parts and small cuts. If you are planning on serious reshaping a workpiece buy a bigger lathe.
Best recipe is to have two sizes. I have a small lathe that is suitable for smaller parts but is still a vianle option for larger parts as well because I wont to be able to use both lathes for multipla purposes, that lathe has a large spondle bore for its size and age, its a keeper. Colchester Chipmaster, small footprint and large inside.. The big lathe is a two ton Swedish quality lathe made 1973 named Köping. In that machine I always use the 4-jaw independent chuck for gripping from 20 mm diamter stock and more. Spondle bore is 60 mm in diameter which serves most jobs. There has been some jobs where alarger spindle bore had been speeding up the job but not so many. So choosing the correct size of the machine is important for a beginner especially because its not so funny to try to part of a large diameter piece in a small lathe or trying to machine alot of stock of a part with a 1 horsepower machine. Dont get me wrong here I like small quality lathes as well but they are made for machining smaller parts..
May the cutting force be with you all…
Myford, were previously known as Drummond. I have a 100+ year Drummond lathe which I will sell off this summer, as I am not using it and needs some TLC.
But, I would say in lathes go for a Moriseki or Taiwanese knockoffs of their designs. You will not look back.
The Myfords have the best feel of all the small lathes. "Why not to buy a Myford" looses it's appeal when you obviously own one. I personally love them.
Sorry for not replying earlier - I literally tell you why you SHOULD afterward :)
for the amount of space it takes up, a colchester bantam is a much better option
In no way do I disagree :)
I may buy one, as a play thing for my cat.
I still want to cry when I remember mine and I have worked on many lathes
Myford lathe are hopelessly out of date. As a toolmaker I would never chose a Myford. Why use an antique, when there are very good quality Chinese lathes for sale at very-very competitive prices. I have a Taiwanese lathe built to German DIN standards and in comparison, the Myford is a pile of junk. You are right in your analysis; the Myford is a museums artefact. However, I wouldn't recommend the purchase of Myford lathe because there are so many reasonably priced high quality lathe to be had.
Très juste !, ou des EMCO
It does not matter how big your lathe is there is always a job that is bigger
But its look so awesome ! 😊
It does!
A good machine is a machine suitable for the job... I think... I suppose... :)
Now then William, I totally misread the title of this video 😂, I thought you’d bought another lathe to replace the Myford!
Many many model engineers love the myford and it’s the beating heart of their workshops, but for me I could not get on with one. I was trained on Colchester students and the like, being much more rigid you can take much deeper cuts and I couldn’t get out of the habit of taking lighter cuts.
Plus building a huge 7 1/4” gauge Tinkerbell I needed something bigger and much more rigid, so the Myford was sold on to someone less heavy handed and in came the Harrison!
Great video as always, all the best, Matt 👍
It was during the filming of this video I started to wonder if I should upgrade. My thoughts immediately went to a Super 7 - after all, I've got all of the tooling for it: chucks, centres, collets, faceplates, drive plates, steadies, etc. and I think that's a compelling argument - but you're right that you can get significantly more money for your lathe if you look at Boxford/Colchester/Harrison/S&B, etc. My workshop is through a side gate, up two steps, over some gravel and over a threshold onto a wooden floor though, so a 750kg Student just isn't going to work...
@@williamsworkshopuk That’s a great couple of points you’ve made, 1) you have a lot of tooling for the myford, so changing machine may result in starting again with the tooling, most stuff won’t be compatible. 2) The floor of your workshop, I think a high number of model engineers are working out of wooden sheds, so like you say a heavy Colchester or Harrison lathe would be too heavy for a wooden floor. I’ve been considering a shed at home for a workshop as my workshop in my videos isn’t where I live, but this is the issue it would be a wooden shed, no good for the Harrison or the Bridgeport 😂. Although if I had my workshop at home…. I’d probably live in it! 🤣🤣. All the best bud, Matt.
When time is money, these things are only ever a hobby lathe.
Inches?? What century do you live in?
Isn't the super 7 "the myford" ?
Well, I mainly meant in comparison to the ML4/ML10 :)
The swing on that lathe is much bigger with a face plate.
Yep, I thought I mentioned it? 9-10"?
Flat bed lathe lazy mans lathe shy away from work . I saved a lot if money when a young man and got a new one ... Got rid of it .for a hercus . What aa big improvement .. still have it 47 years later
Not entirely sure what you mean about it being a Lazy Man's Lathe? it's definitely a flat bed though..
My £250 75 year old Myford does the job ok and my tyzak Zyto does fine for some jobs.
Sold my ML7 and bought a Colchester Student Mk ll. Much more useable lathe.
I have a Pools Special. Same size as an ML7. Paid £100 for it.
Myford no longer exist, they are not "owned by RDG Tools", the same family which owns RDG bought the rights to the Myford brand but the Myford factory in Nottingham was closed, gutted and all the machinery sold at auction, parts are now manufactured in Poland or further afield.
You should have bought yourself a Long Bed for 3 feet between centres, all your other moans are largely dealt with by buying a Super7 instead of your "Poverty Spec" ML7.
Your bed is Cast Iron, do read up on the stuff you're planning to spout about!
My first lathe was a ML 7,loved it,but my 70s Taiwanese Lam is a thousand times better, ! Mal in au.
Mazak you say? 😉
Someone who complains that drip feed oilers are difficult to adjust should not be writing about lathes.
I have atlas lathe goodish ok
Wanna flog it? 😂
I’ve always thought they’re massively overrated & overpriced.
And no prismatic ways?
This & the lack of tapered roller bearings tells me It’s a toy, not a serious tool. Even the Chinese lathes have prismatic ways.
Boxford is a far better bet if you must have an old machine.
And that tiny bore!!!
Even my Warco mini lathe has a 19-20mm bore, & I can do pretty much any job on that that one of these little myfords can do, especially after a few relatively simple & sensible modifications. I use it almost daily in my business. Someone offered me a Myford recently, I politely declined, it would take up more space & I would be more limited in what I could do with it.
It’s Collectible not Collectable!
Pardon?
BE HONEST YOU WANT TO CORNER THE MARKET 🤣🤣
ML7s are very overpriced! A Boxford is far more robust and can be found for less money. For anyone with a bit more space, a good Bantam can be had for the same sort of money as an ML7, and is far higher up the food scale.
Give me a Hercus or southbend any day .
Yes, The Shed Dweller has restored a South Bend and golly, it really appeals!
@@williamsworkshopuk
The only thing I can think of where the Myford is superior is the slotted cross slide .
@@ianbertenshaw4350 useful for expanding beyond the basics with between centres boring, vices for milling, etc. for sure. I don't find myself doing much of that at the moment, but I'd like!
@@williamsworkshopuk
I have a decent sized mill and most things I make end up on there anyhow for one operation or another so if I need to bore something I do it there and only use a boring bar in the Toolpost on the lathe, I think the boring between centres is a hangover from times of past when a lathe was all they had .
I really want to do more faceplate and between-centres boring!