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The Latest In The Behringer Synth Drama (And Why It Matters)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ส.ค. 2024
- Hi everyone! This was a hard one for me to release but it needs to be said. It's about the @behringer drama that's been happening. I hope we can come together as a synth community and adapt with the change.
This video is my personal opinion and does not reflect that of a company or organization.
If you enjoyed this video, help our community grow by leaving a LIKE and SUBSCRIBE!
You can follow me on Instagram here: tiger.arcad...
See you next time!
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:21 Behringer Drama
1:11 Gearspace
1:53 Facebook
2:16 Moving Forward...
2:58 Arguments And Rebuttals
5:18 My Opinion On Behringer
7:03 New Behringer Product Updates
8:44 Who Are The Mini-Synths Good For?
10:17 Which Mini-Synth Am I Looking Forward To The Most?
10:58 In Summary...
12:26 Final Message To Synth Community and Companies
13:28 Outro
![เจ้าผู้เดียว - ดิด คิตตี้ [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/q0NLCYKBOTo/mqdefault.jpg)
What kills me is,
How many guitar companies rip off the Stratocaster body the telecaster body I can go on…the Les Paul.
Right? And that was my point was that this happens everywhere and it’s worse in the guitar world.
Flying V too
Also plenty of boutique synth companies have been trying to copy the 303, 808, 909s etc.
and every acoustic guitar has the same shape :P
Yes everyone has come into terms with it with respect to guitars since all companies have been copying the same 3-4 basic guitar shapes since the 60s. Basses the same. Pickups also the same. The only thing that cannot be copied is the headstock. Here maybe the knob shape could be trademarked and everyone stays happy lol :P.
These might be the perfect synths to bring a young and fresh generation into the synth community whilst the synth snobs sanctimoniously sit in the corner twiddling their overpriced knobs
😂😂😂I love that and couldn’t agree more!!! Thanks for your comment.
hay i started with volca's an if there was no £100 synths i probs wouldn't have tried, totally hooked now, even started on the euro crack, its a slippery slope i'll tell ya
Well put, sir.
you don't have to be a synth snob to not buy behringer. all my synths cost less than 400, but I would never go within miles of a behringer product. th-cam.com/video/lLGPE7moIJw/w-d-xo.html is a cop-out, and it's overused. the red herring is; those are not the main reasons people in the know stay clear of behringer. it goes all the way back to boss and mackie, now curtis, oberheim, auratone.
I seen their track record. not for me.
but you do you...
@@Tiger.Arcade
I agree with everything said. Yes, Behringer can be a bit underhand - the Swing was an unnecessary rip-off of Arturia’s highly successful and still-current Keystep, for example, but generally speaking I think they make well-specified products at a price-point that all can afford. The Crave in particular, despite being a Mother-32 in disguise, is a superb entry point into the semi-modular market, that I have no doubt has turned on a whole lot of people who would normally be frozen out financially.
As Stevie and Paul once sang, there is good and bad in everyone. The market is a lot more interesting for having Behringer in it.
Having said that, there are so many interesting machines on the market now. It’s a new golden age. Anyone saying the old days were better is talking nonsense. I look around my modest studio set-up and I think we never had it so good.
Very well said 👏👏👏
There is no denying that the Behringer Swing is a straight up 1:1 clone of the Keystep. What if Behringer changed the button and control locations around on the Swing, would it be so much different than say the Novation Launchkey Mini? Point being, everyone copies everyone and the thing that Behringer is known for is making gear affordable but they also dis-proportionally receive the most hate.
I worked in a synth oriented music store in the late 1980’s, as everyone was going from analog to digital. These synth snob type a-holes are nothing new, and are the same guys who said Roland is gonna go out of business because they can’t compete with the incredible DX7. (This was before the D50). Behringer sort of crowd sourcing some of the design in these new synths is genius.
Great point! Korg was doing the same too with their poly 800 in trying to compete with the Roland juno.
It is much worse when it comes to Behringer. During the 90s and 00s, Behringer cloned some hardware and got sued. The issue is that those cases settled out of court. The settlements are secrect. But had they gone to court, there would have been discovery hearings, where Behrigner would have been able to present proof o how the companies suing behringer had copied others, and that would have ten been public information that those companies that had been copied could use to sue the companies suing Behringer.
At that time Behringer also had some serious quality control issues.
So within the music community there was this strong anti Behringer culture, they were believed to the the only ones copying others, and their products had quality issues. Some of those cultivating that culture had invested interest in other companies through personal connections, or due to heavy investment in gear by other companies.
That culture is still strong, and they come out with all sorts of accusations of Behringer behaving badly in a way that other companies in the industry don't, the issue is that the other companies in the industry do have the same business practices. And when confronted with how other companies have done very similar things they ignore those arguments, adn accuses the person making them for all sorts of things. Either because they are actually colluding, but many just because they don't want their worldview destroyed.
Nowadays Behringer QC is about at the same level as other companies, but they are investing a lot in their factories, and it is possible they will at some point probably before others move to using X-ray and AI, to scrutinize even every solder point, if they do, they could move ahead depending on where they set their tolerance threshold.
When it comes to the actual components making up synths and computers, and server parks powering youtube that isn't driven by a good business practicing company, it is clear that any moral arguments against Behringer don't hold any merits, even if we ignore the business practice of large music gear makers.
Behringer hasn't behaved perfectly by any standard, but neither has the other big brands in the industry. And singling out one company for the bad practices in the industry will not change the industry. Either attack them all, or none. But bigger yet, don't apply moral only to companies in a niche interest, because that will not change anything long term, as if we manage to get bad business practices out of one small industry, for a time, as long as that is the typical way of doing business, it will come back.
@@Tiger.Arcade that is an excellent point I never see people make
Behringer is an awesome amazing company that gives us little people a chance at having a great synthesizer without breaking the bank. Go Behringer!!! And thank you. You too Tiger A.
Appreciate that Leon!
As an unlikely music hobbyist - professionally, I was a tv graphic designer then a multimedia designer who crossed over into web development - I am not on the fence with Behringer's business model. For me, I stumbled across a cool little iphone groovebox/daw called "Caustic Studio(?)" about 6 years ago that held my attention for a hot second. Then about 4 years ago dabbled in iOs daws and apps which only held my attention for a couple of months. Around and during the aforementioned period and briefly off and on I even dabbled in Ableton and Studio One. None of which I stuck with.
It wasn't until I got my hands on the PO-33 that I got the full on synth bug! From there I've bought many POs, a couple of Volcas, a Korg NTS-1, both Electron Models, a MOOG Werkstat and a Digitakt! I've had my eye on the Crave and the Model D both of which with my income I would consider big investments for just my hobby!
My point being, If I were to somehow become a serious artist it never would have happened if I didn't have affordable tools to work with AND I'm sure that if I were to achieve that level of mastery and success, I would be able to afford and actually buy "the REAL things!"
I have some beef with behringer, which I won't get into here and now, bit I will say, I had the crave for a little over a year, end it became probably my most used synth. Was just getting back into music and had that, a neutron, a jp08, what what...I don't know, a handful of affordable synths basically, and desire it having only one oscillator, it was probably the best sounding synth of the bunch. I only sold it when my eurorack could basically do everything out could do, and it sounded similar enough. So, my point is, the crave, for the fair price of what? $200, is a good time. I would encourage you to make that investment keep it in good shape for a few years and who knows knows? It may double it's worth
@@surfthetsunami5596 My point exactly! Behringer sells to you - you get your money's worth then you sell it so you can buy more"accepted" "real" synth stuff to replace it! The POs and the Volcas start the addiction, Behringer gives you a few "skin pops" - AND THEN YOUR HOOKED!
If I were a synth snob, I would only be cryin about Behringer if they started showing up on stage!
Your analysis is refreshing fella.
Thank you, I really appreciate that.
A refreshing, logical perspective is enjoying. Fellow synth enthusiast, may the force be with you. Anticipating future Tiger Arcade episodes. 🎹🎧
Thank you so much!
I loved when it was called Gearslutz. because that's what we all are. caving in to cry babies is lame.
the irony is the company royally screwed over the female cofounder and wrote her out of the story. Long before changing the name to "gear space" which is a stupid name imo.
I read about that controversy too.
Yeah it’s very clear the managers of Gearspace are extremely conservative. If they weren’t, they would care about progress.
Women I’ve spoken to found the name change extremely sexist and demeaning.
In my heart Iam a gearslut 😆
Great points:)! I can't wait to get the new little synth. I have always just used vst's and my old mpk 25 mido controller. It will be my first hardware. Stoked. It looks like it's going to be great 👍
I really appreciate that! Thanks for your comments.
Happy with the vid,s mate 🥳
Thanks man!
It's just bully big boy tactics, behringer starting to take a chunk out the market. I got a TD3 and it's great. I've also got Roland, Korg, Akai and Digitakt. I buy the device I like not the manufacturer.
I suppose im the same way Steve. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!
bully and behringer in one sentence, but in a "refreshing" combination
If they're doing a Model D Mini, and a Pro VS Mini, does that mean we can expect a larger Pro VS at some point? I certainly hope so!
So do I. One year later the Pro VS Mini is still to be shipped, but there are some new demos; it sounds fantastic. It‘s just too mini.
Great, thoughtful and measured video, sir. Thank you for it.
You get self-styled experts and gatekeepers in all kinds of communities. I used to go bird watching with my kids. Usually, the birders at reserves/hides were welcoming, helpful and friendly, but occasionally you'd get an idiot who would moan about children being there, even though mine (and other kids) were quiet.
These unhappy few seemed not to understand that birdwatching would eventually die out as a hobby if kids and newbies were prevented or priced out from doing it. No new birders. No reserves. No conservation programmes.
But birders with true passion for conservation and nature welcomed all to the hobby, cheap knockoff lenses and all.
Similarly with most synth heads. Wow, we think. Someone new gets to explore and learn this wonderful thing electronic music, that has given us so much joy and meaning.
I look at them making tentative first steps. I'm not envious or resentful. I'm so glad for them.
And I wonder what music they will make. Some of it will be wonderful.
Great point Paul, thanks for sharing!
Ohw.yeah....soo on the money;+)...love LIFE..love nature...was it not the greatest mind who said...understanding nature makes U understand more off U?!!!;+)
yeah but if you go home and post on facebook about how the reserve had the same birds as another one theyre not going to sue you for a quarter of a million dollars.
Yeah, I was thinking about car clubs while watching this. Audi (or whatever) guys looking down their noses at Mustang (or whatever) drivers. Good-hearted rivalries can be fun, but elitism just sucks the joy out of things.
Synthsnobs: Arturia are so great for their massive range of cloned VSTs of classic synths. Behringer are so naughty for their hardware clones of classic synths!
I own a number of Behringer Roland clones (909, 808, 606 and 2x 303s) along with a few of their pedal clones and for the price point, they are awesome! Giving me access to sounds and workflows i would never otherwise be able to afford. Roland has been clear they are not making new analog versions of this year, so what's the big deal?
My RD8 has issues. I got their Odyssey that had issues and I sent it back. I got a mixer of theirs that died within a few days. I do like their Neutron though. That still works. I replaced their Odyssey for Korgs which is great and I am lucky to able to get Korgs 2600m very soon. Didn't want to go back to them for their arp.
I personally am not super interested in big over priced synths and actually prefer mini synths. I loathe the Korg volca line (other than the volca modular) so these seem like a fun alternative to them. Everyone who is upset about these is being childish, if you don't want it don't buy it simple as that.
Agreed!
why call a synth that has been poured over in its conceptualization and design, hand made attention to detail...Overpriced?? you must pay for all that extra goodness. problem is the ramen noodle palate you have where you will accept anything regardless of its level of quality.
@@hanzvolt All synths are 'hand made'.Components like switches and pots are too.
@@rexterrocks Yeah yeah...not my point....do you not see that? do you get my point or you looking for banter?
Still waiting for pro VS and CZ 1, its been a long time Since they were announced...
Got the td3 and the ms1. They both work great for me. I use a tr8s for drums and a mackie mixer. Now just waiting on my td3 mo to get here. Also I have a whole set up mixer synth 303 clone and a drum machine for almost what I paid for my 505 back in the day.
Very well said 👊
Thanks David!
that's a really cool sweater my dude
Haha thanks man!
Hiro Tribe, for sure!
Great observation… And a sweater!
I’ve been into the sound synthesis since 1976 when I purchased my first instrument, a Minimoog. I was 16 and drove to a music store to get it used in the village of East Aurora New York not knowing that BOB and Moog actually live there at the time, imagine that? I met him at an audio engineering convention in 1982 and we instantly became friends. A real long story short in 2004 he excepted my invitation to be the keynote speaker for a bachelors degree in Music Technology. I later was given the title by his daughter Michele as the Director of academic develop a membership for student division of his foundation which I Inspired. I now on a lot of vintage as well as contemporary Synthesizers and an arsenal Soft Synths as well. My undergraduate college education included lots of courses and electrical technology and back on chip a circuit design as well so I’m a bit of a geek I guess she would say? Haha!’ I purchased my first bearage or product in 1992, it was Mysterio image enhancer rack ground and it worked quite nicely. I then picked up a quote “Model D” A few years ago and it kind of blew me away that it was so close to my Mini! (I also on a Polymoog.) recently I sold the Model D And picked Poly D. It does sound fairly close to my Mini and I love that it has MIDI, Aserial chorus and a fourth oscillator. You can do some polyphonic work but it’s a little clunky because it assigns one isolator per finger. It doesn’t give you one oscillator
Per note. So if I use it in unison mode I really enjoy it.
Www.ProfessorMusial.com
Www.SkyRoomStudio.com
Thanks for sharing! I enjoyed reading your story and role in the synth community. You’re very fortunate to have met Bob Moog and his family. I bet there’s a lot we could learn from your experience.
Well David this is well said .
You have to assume that a certain percentage of online attacks on Behringer are coming from intermediaries of their very stiff competition, people who are probably paid to do it.
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!
just because behringer stoops low, doesn't mean others would.
@@brmbkl They do--they charge out the ass for their gear, like most corporations.
I was all set to buy a neutron! But then they showed me a picture of the proton, and the HeroTribe so now what? I don't want to buy a neutron if I can get the cooler newer one for less. It's like now I'm stuck.
Haha I get that. Well just have to be patient until this chip shortage eases up.
I’m still wating on the LM1 clone that was hinted at a few years ago.
😭😭😭
The complaints I've seen about them making cheap gear pretty much fall into two categories: First, there are the people who complain that their products don't have the same build quality. That's not *invalid* but it's also not the sort of thing that's worth getting upset about. Like, any consumer is going to accept compromises when they decide how they're going to spend money. The more interesting complaint is that Behringer takes designs that are already out there and simply makes them with cheaper labor, often without adding much innovation to the design. There's a certain grain of truth to the idea that many of their clones are copying products that aren't available anymore, and that's fair, but then you get things like the Swing or Brains (if I recall the name correctly) where they're just making a cheaper version of a product that's still on the market and already available at a reasonable price.
That complaint holds a lot more water in my book. Like, they're clearly not *incapable* of innovation (the Neutron and Wing show that pretty well), they just don't want to commit to it and prefer to let others spend the money it takes to hire the designers and leech off them.
Between that and Uli's behavior online, I just can't see myself buying anything from them until there's a big shift in their culture.
I can't argue with your reasoning at all. Thanks Nathan for sharing.
Gay
The likes of Korg And Behringer proved that that synths and hardware wasn't just for the elite. I love what they have done, bringing it to the masses, and that's beautiful thing, fantastic work dude
Thank you, that means a lot! Also, good point man. It was Korg that made music gear affordable to me at first before Behringer joined the synth market. I like what Behringer is doing now too!
Korg has made reissues of their own designs, and brought the affordable Arp in colaboration, and made the minilogue and prologue. behringer... not so much.
honestly people acting like behringer is the company freeing the masses from evil pricey brands reminds me of Trumpists hailing him as the only honest man in a sea of deceiving politicians.
@@brmbkl yikes who stole the jam from your donut !!!. Not sure of why your specifically replying to me, as in sentence one I mentioned both behringer AND Korg !!!. So your saying Behringer haven't brought synths and hardware to the masses where previously it may have been cost prohibitive for them ?? And the Trump point.. well you lot voted him in, what can I say to that, and cant really see the relevance as Behringer aren't really trying to be someone they aren't nor are they trying to deceive anyone !!!
@@mattierenton701 "So your saying Behringer haven't brought synths and hardware to the masses where previously it may have been cost prohibitive for them ?? " not at all.
I was saying you can't compare behringer to korg.
"what can I say to that, and cant really see the relevance as Behringer aren't really trying to be someone they aren't nor are they trying to deceive anyone !!!" there's a lot to be said against that, do the research.
plus; the comparison was not about the head of the company, but about the staunch defenders of the brand.
some say the customer is always right, and that we vote with our dollars. does that mean the voter is always right?
to be even more clear;
trump supporters have an underdog complex that chooses their idol/messiah from a category that couldn't be further from their own kind. I see that same false instinct in people calling behringer an underdog.
Im not trying to rain on your parade; if you have fun, good for you. just a shame that new innovative companies don't get the same light, and that their opportunities are undermined.
U r right...a good example is Roland's verselab...they should have asked people what they think before they released it
Poor Lutz and his Gears. What did he do to anybody? 😀
My first was the mc-303 got it 20 years ago it still relavant
Screw gearspace!
They used to be called gearslutz you’re correct sir.
But Berringer continues to make cool stuff.
Stuff that I could never afford or can’t afford now.
So baringer creates synthesizers that I’ve always wanted to buy and now I can!
I don’t think Behringer has to worry about gear space blocking them.
There’s plenty of other companies and outlets out there.
It just kills me this whole cancel culture crap !
I honestly never use gearspace. There’s much better sites out there.
@@Tiger.Arcade can you share a couple of sites that you enjoy? Sincere question.
I’ve been using Synthtopia and Matrix Synth but they honestly have similar vibes to gearspace. I stay more up to date by just following popular synth youtubers and companies I like.
@@Tiger.Arcade indeed !
I like SonicState
A lot of TH-camrs have awesome content !
Gearspace didn't block anyone. In fact a moderator made an official response clarifying what had happened: Hi guys and girls,
"Here's some explanation what happened:
I noticed a few Behringer threads weren't going anywhere and there was a lot of off topic talk.
There were some Moog vs. Behringer fights in the Model 15 thread.
Talk of Rolex watches in the Behringer 2XM thread.
Talk of Captain Scarlet in the Behringer VS Soul thread.
All of those are products that aren't out yet. Lots of manufacturers having parts issues.
We also had complaints (from members not manufacturers) that Behringer Posts were ‘flooding’ the forum.
Then, what we usually do, with the Behringer speculative posts (because there were a lot of them), we put them in the "What synths should Behringer make next? POLL & Speculation Thread".
I felt with the Moog vs. Behr. thread moderation I had just done, I better lock the threads for now, and then I went to bed (at 1:00 AM).
The next morning I wake up with this thread I'm posting in now, questioning why Behringer threads are locked (fair question) and also a FB post that me locking up threads (3) was "likely caused due to competitor pressure". Which is 100% NOT the case!
So this whole thing blew up.
I'm sorry for the confusion I created. I locked those threads saying "until there's an actual product in the stores" but, fair enough, a lot of manufacturers have vaporware right now because of the aforementioned parts shortage. That's a different situation from when Behringer was launching concept threads very often. To repeat, no, there's no corporate competitive pressure, and no secret plot.
Just me, locking 3 of the 16 open threads about Behringer on the first 2 pages, because two of those were getting messy.
I hope we've solved this issue now and you all can discuss the gear you like.
Thanks for reading, and please, next time, just contact us? Shoot me a PM, we are there to help.
Much love, Reptil"
Good video dude
I appreciate that! Thanks for watching!
I like to use synths and drum machines to create sounds and sequences, sample that and create tracks from those samples. That's why I love mini stuff like the Korg nts-1, Pocket operators, Volcas, ets. These little Behringer machines will definitally be part of my set up.
Doing that stuff is super fun, i totally agree with you! These will compliment that setup up for sure.
One thing I wish Behringer would come out with, is a midi keyboard controller with a vector joystick. That would be a throwback to the older synths, and offer a lot of flexibility to the newer synths.
That would be cool especially if it had cv control.
sick pullover, do you know if there is a name for these kind of pullovers?
i have a very similar one/or similar style and want more :)
😂 thanks man! I believe they’re called Coogi sweaters. Look that up and you’ll find the treasure trove. I found mine at a thrift store, got lucky.
@@Tiger.Arcade thank you!! :]
Totally agree.
Thanks!
I like the Behringer TD-3. I own the yellow TD-3 AM twice. And the Behringer MonoPoly. And the RD-9. I love Behringer. And i can´t wait to get the Hiro Tribe.
Thank you for sharing Torsten! I am looking forward to the Hiro Tribe as well!
Acid smiles all the way
A few months ago I was able to buy a new Grey Meanie for under 600 bucks. Behringer made it possible for me to enjoy the workflow of an Arp 2600 without having to sell my car. For that alone I am thankful. Like you said here, to each their own...but for most people, companies like Behringer (Korg, Aturia, etc) allow people to experience synthesis in ways they never could have dreamt of years ago.
Thanks for sharing! Good point about Korg and arturia
The snobs are just mad you're getting their experience without mortgaging your house like they did.
Those character voices & effects, lol , I'm a bit of a desktop crammer, so I do like that behringer are making smaller gear, I've got 9 volcas & a microbrute + kaoss pad, all together through a yamaha mg10xu & volca mix ,, not enough hands really,, lol
Thanks haha! I'm also limited on space so these appeal to me for that reason and their price point.
"I think you just don't know how to find things" is my mantra
It's just hard when every good thing they do comes with a downside. They're active on Facebook? Great, but so is Uli and I've seen him straight up fight with folks in comments. They're making synths cheaper and more accessible? Great, but then features get locked behind computer software that makes it more worthwhile to get an expansive VST for the same price. They added Ratchet to the Keystep? Great, but did it have to look exactly the same?
These minis are the first thing I've seen in a long while where they're actually doing what they say they do by giving us something worthwhile, without a double edged sword coming up. I hope they stick to this kind of thing, original ideas for recreating older synths that aren't already cloned to death. I've personally been waiting for a good JP8000 clone for a long time, so I'm very happy with this series.
Thanks for sharing man! Yeah the key step clone bothered me.
I enjoy Behringer's presence on gearspace so that's a drag. The other forum they're on is fb, and I'm against the existence of fb.
Facebook is annoying ngl
Behringer is literally saving the synth market. in a market of ridiculous prices god bless behringer!
Im just waiting for Behringer to make a Moog Voyager synth. That would be an absolute game changer
Damn that’s a great idea! Did they mention they are trying to clone that one?
They're not. It's just wishful thinking. Also kicking myself in the ass for getting a dfam with its midi accessory when I could've just waited for the edge and gotten it at a fraction of the price. Oh well. It did spark my interest in behringer though.
Word man. I’m a Moog user and supporter but I’m not a Behringer hater. It is important to make differences and I agree with every point you have mentioned.
I appreciate that and agree with your distinction. I’m in the same boat.
For my money this is pretty much a 'Golden Age' for synths and Behringer seem to be at the forefront in producing excellent AND affordable products. I've been into electronically produced music since the 60's and owned a few synths, starting with a VCS3 in the early 70's, and there has never been a time that such a fabulous range of synths have been so affordable and available!
Let the snobs and naysayers winge all they want while the rest us have great fun with great products.
The sonic landscape is now vast and continuing to expand - enjoy :)
Thanks Mick for your input. I always enjoy hearing a more experienced perspective. Technology really has come a long way!
Very reasonable down- to- earth observations. There isa whole culture around "authentic" products, be it synths or classic photo lenses from Leica and such. Human psychology is like that: sth that is rare and difficult / expensive to buy is considered worth more than sth that is easily accessible, not limited etc. I admit I find that kind of snobism annoying as well, but everybody is free to choose what works for him.
Well said. Let people do whatever they want. That includes not attacking the individuals and their products they use. We’re all here because we like synths and want to have fun. Thanks for commenting.
Wait a second- Behringer is making a usb-midi hub? I kinda need one.
i like having the excuse not to spend any money in these crazy times because i am waiting for all this fun looking behringer stuff. i can only imagine how many pieces of behringer gear i could get for the price of one "premium" piece
Ive got 6 for the price of a dsi synth
Gearslutz used to be great but that was a long time ago
I agree with you I'm on the fence as well. after all these things are just tools and we us different tools
Thanks Willie for your comment. The tools we use can still be used for good though, regardless from who we obtained them.
How had you not heard of Gearspace.
I never said I didn’t?
I love, LoVe, LOVE Behringer synths. Own 4 of them and will absolutely be buying more …many more. I simply ignore the drama and smile, because Behringer synths not only sound amazing, they fit my budget 👍🏻
Well said Subtronik. Thanks for your comment.
Hater's gonna hate Behringer, but at the moment they seem to be the most innovative and fast progressing music gear brand.
Good point. Thanks for sharing!
still waiting for the Behringer Groovebox........hear me berry!!
Do they change movie productions after teasers are released?!? Do they still take input after that?!???? Really??????
Still no sampler. Thats whats missing from their cloning line.
Agreed! I was glad about the groovebox but i'm like hey y'all missed one!
Heh.... gonna be interesting when the soul synths come out and they get compared with the volcas.
Yeahhhh “comparison videos” 😂
Particularly interested in the Model D mini. I have the desktop Model D and wouldn't mind a more portable version. :)
Also - they are building the machine, taking that price and adding a profit margin, and shifting thousands more than the other companies who are picking a large price, kneecapping the product and selling less. all the traditional manufacturers acting like apple. though good sign from sequential with the take 5. really even analogue polysynths shouldn't be that expensive now, tbh the UI knobs, faders etc is going to be far more expensive than an SMT voice circuit built by a pick and place machine. and also with a lot of this stuff, there would be a lot of people willing to pay a premium for a roland 808 or jup 8 from roland, like the KARP stuff, but roland wont make it
There is soooooo much good music out there today. The problem is that there is so much it is overwhelming. I might hear the greatest song I've ever heard but I'll forget what it was called and it is gone in a sea of music. It's an amazing day and age
Haha good point dude. So true! Saturated as well huh?
That company teases more than the girls in my high school they have so many products in pre-production it's ridiculous.
😂😂😂that’s the best comparison ever!
As consumers, it is increasingly important for us to check if our own values align to the values and ethics of the brands we buy. That’s our responsibility as world citizens.
That's almost impossible when the majority of production is in China, India, Vietnam, Taiwan, etc.
We vote with our dollars right?
The anti-Behringer cadre would have a stronger argument if all the clones they're producing were still available from the original manufacturers. For instance, making a clone of the Sequential Prophets isn't something I'm interested in because I can still get the real thing. Clones of the MiniMoog and Oberheim synths is basically servicing the music community in a way that the creators of those instruments can't or won't.
Any thoughts on the Swing, then?
honestly after the kirn thing and the whole deal with the Swing i don't really want to give money to mr. uli, lol. I mean like even though most companies have done bad things ive never seen someone be so OPEN about being terrible.
Yeah, idk how the Kirn revenge passed their PR to go ahead and post a personal attack. The Swing was soooo obvious too.
The first generation of Behringer gear, early 00s, it was the bottom-barell 'pro' brand usually meeting certian standards for sophistication of design & specifications - but it was the cheap choice and never expected to sound best-in-class of anything and QC concerns (I never had a dud but many did). More recently they aquired high-end Midas and from there they've really raised that bar of what you could minimum expect from them. Ultimatley, I agree, the cheaper they're able to do the same thing for - the better for the musician-consumer, them doing the $50 synths they've teased about, expecting any kid may be able to get one, should be applauded by everyone and all the more than their $300 minimoog is sonically indiguisguishable from the moog minimoog! I never thought I'd own one. Now, for the designs that the inventors declined to bring to market - Roland let the TR-808 become $2000 thing if you wanted that instrument that was the minimum price (used market) and Behringer's RD-8 wasn't lacking compared to the original in any way plus many fantastic additions (rolls, transient designer, etc). I had one purchased new, several of the individual analog outputs stopped working reliably on mine. Newegg.com was excellent about it, they took it back (I was planned to get a replacement but they allowed me to just get my money back for it). But it was incredible, I recorded a new beat every week when I had it! I'm waiting around to get one super cheaply used, which is turning out to be impossible as people are not trying to get rid of theirs.
Thanks for sharing! I really want that RD-8, ngl.
LOVE THIS, all of it. Especially what you said Regarding older people who bitch and moan and complain about music -- (my age 57, and older, some younger), you said
" I disagree./... YOU JUST DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIND THINGS"
YESSSSSSS. I try every day to spoon out that ocean. Ugh. YEAH THANKS FOR SAYING ALL THIS
Majorly agreed on the Nike, Adidas comparison etc -- so many consumer products we use daily are COPIES OF THE ORIGINAL
On that point - -I LOVE BOB MOOG, met him, I own Moog Gear, I've been hired to do stuff for the company, love Moog Foundation etc -- likewise -- ALL MOOG LOVE
Buut....Bob Moog started his career in part...MAKING A CLONE SYNTH -- he assembled, constructed and sold Theremins...yes w the blessing of Theremin.... but still,.... it makes the modern weirdness about clones kinda interesting
Wow! Thanks for sharing Andre! You sound like an individual with a credible background. I appreciate your comments and watching my video!
Believe me if I had the money, I'd own a couple of MOOG's.But I'd rather drive then walk so I brought a cheap car and spent the rest on 3 Behringer synthesizers ( having fun with them)...I'm just waiting for the other advertised models to come out (China...Get it together!)...There's an Model 15 with my name on it!
Thanks Pete for watching and your comment!
I still hope some new Behringer-stuff esp. in the low cost, small form factor area hits the market. Even if they dident bring them out (yet), It maybe helped making other companies more eager to promote entry-level-gear. My GF, not into Synths so far really, fell in love somehow with the Roland Aira J6. I would propably buy all (or all but the one that is just not mine) of the soul series. As a long time Korg Volca-(Ab)User I got the impression that 99% of all Smallsynth-Haters have never taken the time to dive into these powerfull and cheap fun small synths, so I started ignoring the hate on that completly. (I can spend hours with nearly every Volca and my Novation circuit, not that it sounds any good yet, but thats totally on me)
For Behringer and us I hope the situtaion with trade and resources gets better.
Also i would love to see a good entry level DIY projekt (teaching plp basics: atarie-punk console, Transistor avalanche, 2206 and a at least 32 step cmos sequenzer, could be a 6 voice (based on cheap 555 or the like) a fat filter and reverb and delay. Coul cost upto 100 bucks, volca form factor, or maybe double the width, at least 6 real keyboard-keys plus volca style knobs, at least basic I/O like audio in, cv and gate etc., at least midi in Maybe make it solderless so more plp can dive into it. And maybe add some kind of save mechanism, usb export or sd-card. And a display. Keep everything open source and changeble, would buy 3 imidatly, one for me and 2 for my loved ones to get them hocked to audio-synthesis ;)
I would love Beringer.... If they didn't pull a bunch of weird stunts marketing wise, still will never understand how they thought attacking Peter Kirn was a good idea
That being said, if they can show they've shaped up, I love the idea of making music hardware more accessible to everyone
Subbed
Thanks!
an old adage applies here; it ain't what you got, it's the way that you use it...
Totally get if someone used the original synth back in the day, they’d prefer that over a clone but everyone else is just being snobby! These synths are bringing people into the hobby and that’s good for everyone. More consumers mean companies will have to do more to get our custom, they’ll have to be competitive on price and value. It’ll also mean there’ll be more customers for high end gear, as there’s always someone willing to spend more.
korg volcas: nice
roland boutiques self clones: cool!
Dreadbox Nymphes in the Juno Vibe: epic mini synth!
behringer mini analog synth clones: KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!! PEASANT TOYS FROM HELL!
haha, I would love one of those Dreadbox Nymphes btw!
@@Tiger.Arcade it’s just hilariously inconsistent. I’ve seen people praise the nymphes but criticize the deepmind for a similar architecture and price range. It’s just petty. Get the synth that inspired you and have fun. That’s all that matters.
@@rui5421 I couldn't agree more! Thanks.
Regard less of everything, Great Video Tiger Arcade!
Thank you so much!
Unfort Behringer has not released any more info on the Micro synths!! They told me some time ago that it was due to chip shortages?? Really for a micro synth? Let's face it in 2018 Behringer teased & announced the Clone TR 909 now RD-9 which took them till 2021 to actually relasse it !!! Wonder how long it will take Behringer to relase the Micro synths ?? Hmmmmm!!
I agree. The chip shortage is real though and it is prospected to ease up by 2023 and 2024. Facilities are being built in the USA and i believe one other place to make chips available again. Here is a little video i did on it th-cam.com/video/QLGZ68GsZlM/w-d-xo.html
Behringer products are not clones. They are morelike replicants :
:Stronger
:faster
:harder
:better
Behriner answered the question
"Are friends electric?"
Yes! Yes, they are.
People who spent a bunch of money on a original 808 hate on the rd-8 because they are mad they spent all that money on a original. The thing is the rd-8 is a affordable analog clone with modern day updates. Obviously I'm pro-affordable gear. If it sounds good it sounds good. I like all good sounding gear.
I like Behringer's approach to marketing.
I have many of their products, and enjoy them all, very much.
I am 61 years old, and Behringer has made my synth dreams come true.
Have a great day all!
Thanks for your comment and watching! Behringer is definitely making classic and original synths affordable.
Absolutely - right there with you :)
Drama? what drama...i don't see any drama in releasing remodelled synths at a low price. (if that IS the "drama"...lol.) I own enough of the old, very expensive gear to appreciate that. It gave me the oppurtunity to have a second, small system that i can easily take apart and take somewhere...without having to be pinned down to groovebox or something. I can switch between affordable stuff, that sounds great.
sure, i love my big old stuff, i'd NEVER trade it for the new ones, but i agree i love all those boutiques, and if i could afford it or had the space, i'd buy all those behringer clones, too, that they offer...like the PRO 1 or the CAT. I'd buy a monopoly-clone, if i just had 700€s lying around, but i am too busy getting cash together to RELEASE something. The Original was always not a practical thing to use for me, most units on the market were broken because of the famous battery-acid problem. No Midi...but prices through the roof. I saw one after 40 years in a local shop. restored...3000 Bucks. Sorry, but as nice as it is, i won't pay that, because i could get 10 synths for that price and have a third studio. lol. i think a lot of gear is more a obstacle than a blessing at some point.
Well said!
@@Tiger.Arcade thx!
Just to add, I've think it's great that more people can dabble in electronic music without breaking the bank. I think the 'establishment' want to keep it elitist for the big bucks.
" I think the 'establishment' want to keep it elitist for the big bucks."
why would they? and who is they?
Like Gibson and other brands, so they have an excuse to keep charging products with 5000% percent profit margins or more for null differences between products to the public, quality should be paid and I agree with that, but who determine the price of that quality?
Behringer is doing what all businesses are doing, copy each others products and change them enough so they don't get sued for copyright in court, I don't see brands like Roland who are convicted in court for price manipulation rather recently being persecuted by the synth mob, if the principle of "honesty" is to apply to Behringer, then should be applied to all, maybe because that mob holds Roland models that otherwise would start to lose value and "prestige", perhaps.
Elitist for the big bucks, it's a great part of the problem indeed.
the constructive feedback narrattive is just an excuse. what they really do by their premature announcements is drying out the market for any smaller scale synth/gear manufacturer. people are holding back from buying gear that may be available now, because b is teasing with mock ups to be released on the 12th of never. i think that’s pretty bad.
great video! haters gonna hate...
Thanks for your support!
wait . is 2022 and behringer didn't know to use usb c ...
I do think it hey should promoting these products 2 to 3 years early
Yeah and in the midst of a war now where it’s gonna be even harder to deliver now
Bottom line, if somebody produces something that will fit in my studio then I will buy it. If not I won't and I try my damnedest not to be swayed by the coolness or anticoolness of the company that makes it.
I like that! Thanks for commenting.
I don't care about companies ripping each other off. Usually. The exception is with CO ops and collectives. And Moog is a employee owned(sort of) company, so I am very protective of them. Plus they have made some seriously innovative synths lately DFAM, subharminicon, amazing stuff. So, hands off the DFAM yo. Otherwise, fuck it up
Haha right?! I’m a huge Moog fan! Gotta rep my American synth company!
Yep, I own a M32, 2 DFAM’s and a Subharmonicon. Great kit!
it just because its behringer, and people dont like them because they are challenging the norms of really over priced stuff, synths are often extremely over priced, and they do this because the synth snobs let them get away with it
@SCUTTLERZthanks, but i just think if behringer can make a mother 32 for £150 and still make a profit why are moog still charging £500,,, its elitist BS I've a load of Behringer gear, i think they're they're put REAL gear in the hands of people like me who until not long ago were priced out of making electronic music unless they did it via a computer, an to me thats a pretty soulless way of making tunes, all them happy accidents we have with synths (lol 90% of my music then) gone,,,, an i do get the argument about copying/cloning current design's but if these companys wern ripping people off charging eye watering sums of money... there wouldn't be a market for it
So the other companies can do all the expensive development and product design and B can finally jump in and ripp it off?! Great.
@@Alan_Watkin Because the Mother-32 is made in the U.S., while the Crave is made in China, where factory worker wages are less than 10% of what they are in the U.S. A lot of the parts probably come from China as well. I imagine parts costs are higher for Moog, both due to lower volume purchasing, and having to import more parts than Behringer. Claiming that they're charging too much based on product specs alone is typical consumerist oversimplistic thinking. Moog's per unit operating cost is undoubtedly higher than Behringer's, and that's one reason why their price is so much higher (although they could probably afford to charge a little less).
Not everyone who hates Behringer is a synth snob. Some are just more conscientious about what they buy, beyond what's best for their bottom line, and actually want to avoid actively contributing to the loss of manufacturing jobs to other countries. But since you're not American, the job issue is probably meaningless to you, as it's not your country that's getting hurt.
@@jc3drums916 also, behringer has 1000x the volume of production moog has.
moog and dsi is not overpriced, it's what things should cost if you want employees to make a decent living.
"Not everyone who hates Behringer is a synth snob. Some are just more conscientious about what they buy, beyond what's best for their bottom line, and actually want to avoid actively contributing to the loss of manufacturing jobs to other countries. "
this.
vilifying moog and sequential is like saying a nerd had it coming, because you feel guilty about standing by and doing nothing. if I was younger and broker, I know I would be tempted as well (and probb get defensive about it too) but defending my choices by twisting facts around would never be cool.
@SCUTTLERZ haha. Ever heard of patents? They are part of the capitalistic system.
I used to be on Gearslutz and the anti-Behringer rhetoric was insane. One guy would write posts that were practically pages long and finally admitted he had been employed by Moog in the past. What really gets me is that some people who literally have a dozen synths in their basement that cost $1500.00 through $5,000.00 will criticize people for not buying gear from the legacy companies. People have lots of different financial constraints for numerous reasons.
I don’t agree with everything that Behringer has done, but I don’t have any problem with them making new versions of other manufacturer’s out of production synths.
I agree with you 💯 Joseph, thanks for sharing!
USB-C absolutely sucks for anything that gets plugged and unplugged on a regular basis. Downright terrible connector for cell phones. There are WAY too many wires running through a USB-C cable and twice as many as there needs to be solely because it's reversible, a feature that literally no one was clamoring for and absolutely no one would want if they realized that it meant their cables would break within a few month's worth of usage.
While we're at it, the HDMI connector needs to die as well, especially on laptops. I don't get why cable standards are moving away from robust, durable connections for things that people regularly interact with whether accidentally or on purpose.
Are you saying going back to tightening screws like on VGA ports? Something that I like about the moog matriarch in particular was the power adapter had a tightening screw on port for the power supply. Super secure.
@@Tiger.Arcade Not necessarily, but even a VGA cable without being screwed into place is more secure and robust than an HDMI cable. I realize there are a lot more wires contained within an HDMI cable, but I think there's a better compromise that could be made.
For something like the power cable on a Matriarch, I think it makes a whole lot of sense to have a screw to secure it in place. I think there are certainly some other use cases where screws would be appropriate.
I'm not against USB-C in general, but I've always had problems with phones that use it and I am VERY careful with how I handle my cables.
@@rars0n You bring up some good points for sure. I own no allegiance to usb c beyond the fact that it is more universal and transfers data much faster and reliable than let's say usb 3.0. as for integrity of the cable i'm not sure if that would boil more down to manufacturer and synths screwing in jacks to the chassis or pcb.
One of the things that Behringer has done with some of their "clones" is to make actual substantive improvements over the originals -- which, BTW, is part of intended purposes of the patent process. My "gripe" with Behringer isn't in their gear or their cloning. It's with their choice to cut their dealer network. This cuts out the ability in many countries peoples' ability to get hands-on time prior to purchasing. It also hurts the local stores. It's not that I don't understand their wanting to partner with the biggest dealers in the world, and I've got nothing against those retailers/e-tailers. But I think that, effectively, cutting local dealers off that the knees only weakens the industry as a whole. Anyway, that's my rant.
I'm loving the new products Behringer is announcing -- the Proton is really high up on my buy list right now -- right after the new, little Modal Cobalt.
I was on track to becoming that grumpy, cynical, old guy, but I've had that epiphany just in the past week or so. And I know I'm going to be happier in the long run!
Thank you for your comments. Modal Electronics is making some unique and impressive affordable gear. A not to be overlooked UK company!
Hello: I have a Pro-One, Poly D, Blue Marvin, Odyssey and RD-8. I love my Behringer products. They don't all sound the same. With the exception being the Odyssey, all of the other Behringer products were obtained months or more than a year after seeing a demonstration video. My complaint isn't with the quality of the products, it's telling us about things that don't exist. "Working on it" is meaningless as legal issues or other things might completely derail a product. The chip shortage is something we've been told, and something they were told, but indeed...nothing is short for two years. The RD-9, the UB-XA, the CS-80. Stop teasing us.
I totally get your perspective as well. Now, with the chip shortage it will probably be like you said and people will get bored or tired of waiting and spend their money elsewhere.
Those Behringer announcement threads tend to devolve into pointless arguments and memes when nothing concrete gets released even years after the announcement. I can certainly understand forum sites not wanting to spend large amounts of resources to moderate and monitor those threads instead of promoting constructive discussions about music and products that actually exist. If Behringer wants to use those forum threads to do "market research" for free, they can do so in their own forums. Gearspace and other sites aren't an extension of their marketing division.
(nothing against Behringer products, I own several)
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I'm not an expert on gearspace rules as I seldom use the site at all. It is nice to have it for the people rather than for the businesses though.
Gearslutz for the win
Elitists will be elitists. I really love the oldschool synth gear and I'm thrilled that Behringer is making the good ol stuff for the newer generation to appreciate, and at prices ordinary people can sort of actually afford!
I kinda think some of these hatefull people are just pissed and bummed out that the expensive Moog they bought to be their entrance to the "kool klub", is now a little less important now that some amateur guy can get a Behringer Poly D for a fraction of the cost.
These people have their personality revolving around these products, so they may think their pride is at stake or something...
Its like an old Korg MonoPoly owner is mad that someone else can now have a MonoPoly too, for instance...
Some people also still hate Behringer because they once bought their cheapo stomp pedals and it broke on them...
Yeah I remember them being the cheap company too. It started as pedals for me and their mixers. I avoided them. Then when they’re synths started coming I was like 🤔🤔🤔
The Sonic the Hedgehog movie would never have been such a blockbuster hit had they not changed his CGI model due to negative customer feedback
I have behringer clones of every vintage Roland synth I own and I love them all. Roland didn't make what I wanted.
Great comparison!
This guy, going on about positivity, community, and freedom of choice. This is the Internet pal, we don't truck with that BS.
Thank you for your wisdom and censorship of swear words lol
Wise words there, but the word community is kind of a dirty word I think. But yeah I hope the cancel culture doesn't affect these companies
Thanks for watching KellerDev. I always pictured community as “togetherness” and “positivity”.
And uhh who won the space race....or IT was the race it selfs????!;)