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A Mock Debate on Time with JULIAN BARBOUR AND TIM MAUDLIN

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2011
  • fqxi.org Julian Barbour and Tim Maudlin argue their opposite position at the FQXi SETTING TIME ARIGHT conference.

ความคิดเห็น • 36

  • @audiodead7302
    @audiodead7302 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    After university, became a public servant. When I see this lovely video, I so regret leaving science/research behind. There really is nothing else like it. A great bunch of people.

  • @PyROphantasie
    @PyROphantasie 12 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    @Ziplock9000 They were arguing for the opposite positions that they are actually for, which is why it's a "Mock" debate, I would imagine much better arguments if they actually argued for what they believed in.

  • @LorenzoDeprado
    @LorenzoDeprado ปีที่แล้ว +1

    these mock debates are gooooood. wish I could be there

  • @brucefetter
    @brucefetter 11 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    but it says u posted that three months ago.

  • @AdamRTNewman
    @AdamRTNewman 12 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It's interesting that Brian Pitts says in one of his conference papers:
    "While Barbour reads his project as the elimination of time (which A-theorists will not like), along the way he provides a sort of first-principles derivation of a theory very similar to GTR empirically, if not identical, and yet containing absolute simultaneity. It seems worth considering whether an A-theorist might adopt part of Barbour's program, while rejecting his claim to eliminate time."

  • @richdorset
    @richdorset 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    How does alcohol affect one's perception of time? ;-)

  • @ryanjavierortega8513
    @ryanjavierortega8513 10 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great Post!

  • @jtmheus993
    @jtmheus993 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think that time might not exist. After it all goes back to what people refer to as change which, if looked at with the critics point of view, does not actually occur in this reality. We see that this sensation of time can be split into "moments" or "slides/snaps" in time. but where the change occurs between two moments is the puzzle that needs to be solved before this whole aspect of time is considered. It will be good if people also read about McTaggart's Arguments on the in-existence of time for they really give a detailed summary if all that has to do with time. even though they still do have critics. This for me is such a fascinating topic to discuss.

  • @AdamRTNewman
    @AdamRTNewman 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Brian Pitts also writes:
    "Thus a theistic A-theorist such as Craig might avail himself of Barbour's physical derivation of Einstein's equations with a preferred foliation, while rejecting Barbour's elimination of time. The theistic A-theorist might even thank Barbour for reviving rather than eliminating time."

  • @Ziplock9000
    @Ziplock9000 12 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    @PyROphantasie On reflection, I think I expected too much. ;o). I am resiting the urge to talk about tha wider issue of Physics needing (and possibly getting) a renaissance.

  • @Sabiancym
    @Sabiancym 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've always thought of time as an invention by man to measure change. When debating this I've found that people who think time is an invention and those who think it is real are not that far off from each other. The only thing they are really arguing is philosophy and semantics.

  • @Ziplock9000
    @Ziplock9000 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    I can't find any value or information in this video. Maybe I was expecting a much more concrete debate.

  • @aminam9201
    @aminam9201 ปีที่แล้ว

    Time does exist as a process, it’s illusion in the little irrational minds of the irrational apes only.

  • @mko-ai
    @mko-ai 12 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    If time did not exist, it would be impossible for anything to change, for anything to observe change, and for anything to observe. I really was hoping that this video would be based on science, and not two guys making light-hearted fun.

    • @frankdimeglio8216
      @frankdimeglio8216 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      WHY AND HOW E=MC2 IS F=MA, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY:
      Time DILATION ULTIMATELY proves ON BALANCE that ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity, as E=mc2 IS F=ma. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND DESCRIBES what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE. Ultimately and truly, TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY.
      OVERLAY what is THE EYE in BALANCED RELATION to/WITH what is THE EARTH. Notice the black space of THE EYE. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. THE DOME of a person's EYE is ALSO VISIBLE. Now, carefully consider what is the semi-spherical, translucent, QUANTUM GRAVITATIONAL, AND BLUE SKY. Great. E=mc2 IS F=ma. It is CLEAR.
      Time DILATION ULTIMATELY proves (ON BALANCE) that E=mc2 IS F=ma, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity/acceleration involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; as ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. A PHOTON may be placed at the center of what is THE SUN (as A POINT, of course), AS the reduction of SPACE is offset by (or BALANCED with) the speed of light; as E=mc2 IS F=ma; as ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. The EARTH and the Sun constitute and comprise the MIDDLE AND THE FULL DISTANCE in/of SPACE (IN BALANCE) in full and BALANCED compliance and conformity with the CLEAR and universal fact that E=mc2 IS F=ma, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Great !!!!!! Hence, it is CLEARLY proven, in fact, that the rotation of WHAT IS THE MOON NECESSARILY matches it's revolution. Great. Obviously, what is THE MOON is subject to and constitutive of both E=mc2 AND F=ma. E=mc2 IS CLEARLY proven to be F=ma. "Mass"/energy involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE consistent with/as what is BALANCED electromagnetic/gravitational force/ENERGY, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma. This CLEARLY explains why objects fall at the SAME RATE (neglecting air resistance, of course), AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. THE EARTH is ALSO F=ma AS E=mc2. The Sun is both F=ma AND E=mc2. The BLUE SKY is E=mc2 AND F=ma. What is THE MOON is NECESSARILY F=ma AS E=mc2. THINK. It ALL CLEARLY makes perfect sense. (BALANCE and completeness go hand in hand.) VERY IMPORTANTLY, outer "space" involves full inertia; AND it is fully invisible AND black. Great !!! INSTANTANEITY is thus FUNDAMENTAL to what is the FULL and proper UNDERSTANDING of physics/physical experience, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. The INTEGRATED EXTENSIVENESS of THOUGHT (AND description) is improved in the truly superior mind. (THOUGHTS ARE INVISIBLE.) GREAT.
      THE DOME of a person's EYE is ALSO VISIBLE. The balance of being AND EXPERIENCE is essential. The EARTH is ALSO BLUE (as water). Alas, the ULTIMATE unification of physics/physical experience combines, BALANCES, AND INCLUDES opposites; as ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy.
      By Frank DiMeglio

  • @johnchappell9232
    @johnchappell9232 8 ปีที่แล้ว

    does time exist for a photon.?
    more importantly, for time to exist there must be moments that repeat themselves, identically, not just that relationships have alered to such and such a degree but that the whole picture, the whole universe, has repeated itself.
    Otherwise its not the same time, its not the same second.
    In which case time is a measurement yes, and a measurement that can be isolated and perfected, but only in relation is that isolated, perfected quantity actually relavent.
    And when it is in relation it is never the same, unless an approximation, even brownian motion, never mind quantum fields, cannot be described accurately if all you do is measure the distance between two points.

    • @bocelott
      @bocelott 8 ปีที่แล้ว

      Basically it travels 0 distance in 0 time (from its frame).

    • @frankdimeglio8216
      @frankdimeglio8216 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@bocelott E=MC2 IS F=ma. The MIDDLE DISTANCE is thus balanced with/as the full distance (in/of space), as the stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND DESCRIBES what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Time DILATION ULTIMATELY proves ON BALANCE that ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity, AS E=MC2 IS F=ma. Indeed, TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS E=MC2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. (The sky is BLUE, AND THE EARTH IS ALSO BLUE; AND the stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky.) It all CLEARLY does make perfect sense. BALANCE AND completeness go hand in hand.
      By Frank DiMeglio

  • @MarvinMonroe
    @MarvinMonroe ปีที่แล้ว

    Julian has a very patrician look. The nose and the baldness. Reminds me of men on my dad's mom's side of the family. She came from an old New York family. Laurel Hollow Long Island and what not

  • @jackpullen3820
    @jackpullen3820 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I just don't have time....

  • @aminam9201
    @aminam9201 ปีที่แล้ว

    Here you find the explanation of why Time is a process not a dimension, you have to read till the end to be able to understand: There’s a difference between Time is the measurement and Time is a process l, because time is the process of measurement (that is why they couldn’t understand what time is till this moment ), clock hands (minutes and hours) are the reference (memory) the calculation of seconds (The tick of the clock, and oscillation in atomic clocks ) is present time (future in clocks has different approach, clock itself doesn’t recognise future)
    to concise the whole process is time (it’s a PROCESS)
    in human brain the whole process in clocks takes place but humans have memory and can anticipate future (next step based on previous experiences or calculations but in clocks they have fixed pace unless something happens to seconds hand ) so in human brain there’s a whole process (ticking or oscillation, processing “including cognition “ and memory.
    in human brain the processing itself is the present time and the result of processing is the past time “in memory”.
    in pysics it requires space to calculate time, but in human brain probably works at level close to Planck’s length,. in human brain there are more than one clock, one is very accurate such as how humans reach perfecrion in shooting, and other games, and inacurate clock that works in conscious experience (daily life) and that is more effective (no need for high accuracy). clocks can’t recognise time but human brain can. there’s action but could be quantum action or possible mental action in the brain too (but very likely Quantum action) (so-called Quantum action could be the minimum action). talking about space here is in the classical physics (normal equations where we calculate speed and distance) but that is the core of clocks in general (time = distance / speed) the shift in seconds hand. but there’s minimum action (Planck’s scale). mental clock requires action too but different approach. to concise human brain can recognise time unlike clocks (it’s a process). Planck is one of the best former scientists.
    Hopefully the idea is clear, I hardly can focus.
    I think the idea is that time is a bit complicated: why do you need the minute hand and the hour hand? Because time is a process and not just the ticking of the seconds hand, here I am talking about the conventional scale of ordinary clocks , and I am not talking about the scale of atomic clocks, but it is the same idea at the end. but there’s a big difference: clocks can’t recognise the ticks of seconds hand but humans can.
    There’s a mental clock for sure: it’s the result of continuous approximate calculations of dimensions and speed, it’s inaccurate but very effective in usual daily activities such as: is that narrow road is enough to my car to pass through?!, but there’s other type of time which is very accurate and very likely based on physical clock similar to atomic clocks.
    to reach perfection in some shooting sports (repeatable) indicate that there is a very accurate clock (probably more accurate than modern clocks), in human brain (very likely) it is in cerebellum, accompaned with other accurate caluculqtions such as wind speed,….etc. of course all that happen unknowingly.
    ……
    By the way, they hide or delete human valuable precious thoughts for theft purposes (many of the irrational thieves wrote books only out of human thoughts), they worked in a systematic collective theft and worked on erasing human traces).

  • @zipsteri
    @zipsteri 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Dynamika (motion as an entity by itself) came first, then space. Space is the medium in which matter expresses itself under certain conditions. Matter in space gives the volume of space occupied by it the property of density. Volumes of space of equal density repel each other. Volumes of space of unequal density attract each other. Thus all motion is of "a volume of a given space-density". Does any one know that 15 sq. meters on a sphere's surface is not equivalent to 15 sq. meters on a flat surface? But our maths says it is. Space-density gradient - actually part of a continuum from infinity to minus infinity - runs from a very high number (for a black hole) to say .0000000000000001 in some units - probably spacons, for material entities. Recall an atom is mostly empty space. Physical space has the property of density. Science's constants become inoperative at some point on the space-density gradient. Science doesn't want to know that. Look at the mess in the quantum mechanics . Strange probability maths had to be formulated to explain the unexplainable. Quantum physics cannot be completely understood that way. The lower we go on the density gradient , the less the applicabilty of "mathematics" and "time". But that's all that science uses for measurements. Science doesn't know that at very low densities of matter, the space density of certain voids in the human body become part of the experiment. And that I call spiritual forces, which lie in the discipline of Mind Sciences. I encourage you to watch my videos Brain-mind Complex and Mind-sciences on my channel here.
    Proof: Just examine the achievements of civilizations in the pre-science period of Life on Earth.

  • @Sabiancym
    @Sabiancym 11 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I agree. This is just philosophy and linguistics. I've been trying to understand time better as I'm having a tough time believing that it's real and hoped this would help, but they're not using any science or tangible evidence. If I didn't know any better I'd say these were just your average joes who wanted to sound smart.

  • @msPacMondrian
    @msPacMondrian 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    Tim looks like he has to go pee.

  • @colin8696908
    @colin8696908 12 ปีที่แล้ว

    the fact that you can manipulate time proves it exist's.

  • @RoyManter
    @RoyManter 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    "unless you'r german"

  • @georgesos
    @georgesos 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    "Is time real?"
    It is the question that is unreal .
    The theory that depends on observations of fundamental laws and their 2 - directional results .....
    The problem is that these people are driven and insist on theories that have their basis on false interpretation of words.
    Time is real, its not 2directional (until the time someone proves otherwise and presents data ) , mathematics/physics arent perfect (yet).But please stop"playing" with language in order to "prove" a scientific point.
    Time running backwards but looks normal for the local observers,no ability to access anything beyond the big bang ,so i can claim there were fairies and monsters that moved towards the other side and kick started our universe to get rid of us....
    Oh please,give me a break.

  • @aminam9201
    @aminam9201 ปีที่แล้ว

    What is this! Human thinks and apes celebrate their illusions!

  • @linuxisbetter0
    @linuxisbetter0 10 ปีที่แล้ว

    Your standards and expectations for a "mock debate" are probably too high.

  • @frankdimeglio8216
    @frankdimeglio8216 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    WHY AND HOW E=MC2 IS F=MA, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY:
    Time DILATION ULTIMATELY proves ON BALANCE that ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity, as E=mc2 IS F=ma. This NECESSARILY represents, INVOLVES, AND DESCRIBES what is possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE. Ultimately and truly, TIME is NECESSARILY possible/potential AND actual IN BALANCE; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY.
    OVERLAY what is THE EYE in BALANCED RELATION to/WITH what is THE EARTH. Notice the black space of THE EYE. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. THE DOME of a person's EYE is ALSO VISIBLE. Now, carefully consider what is the semi-spherical, translucent, QUANTUM GRAVITATIONAL, AND BLUE SKY. Great. E=mc2 IS F=ma. It is CLEAR.
    Time DILATION ULTIMATELY proves (ON BALANCE) that E=mc2 IS F=ma, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Gravity/acceleration involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; as ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. A PHOTON may be placed at the center of what is THE SUN (as A POINT, of course), AS the reduction of SPACE is offset by (or BALANCED with) the speed of light; as E=mc2 IS F=ma; as ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. The stars AND PLANETS are POINTS in the night sky. The EARTH and the Sun constitute and comprise the MIDDLE AND THE FULL DISTANCE in/of SPACE (IN BALANCE) in full and BALANCED compliance and conformity with the CLEAR and universal fact that E=mc2 IS F=ma, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. Great !!!!!! Hence, it is CLEARLY proven, in fact, that the rotation of WHAT IS THE MOON NECESSARILY matches it's revolution. Great. Obviously, what is THE MOON is subject to and constitutive of both E=mc2 AND F=ma. E=mc2 IS CLEARLY proven to be F=ma. "Mass"/energy involves BALANCED inertia/INERTIAL RESISTANCE consistent with/as what is BALANCED electromagnetic/gravitational force/ENERGY, AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma. This CLEARLY explains why objects fall at the SAME RATE (neglecting air resistance, of course), AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy is gravity. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy. THE EARTH is ALSO F=ma AS E=mc2. The Sun is both F=ma AND E=mc2. The BLUE SKY is E=mc2 AND F=ma. What is THE MOON is NECESSARILY F=ma AS E=mc2. THINK. It ALL CLEARLY makes perfect sense. (BALANCE and completeness go hand in hand.) VERY IMPORTANTLY, outer "space" involves full inertia; AND it is fully invisible AND black. Great !!! INSTANTANEITY is thus FUNDAMENTAL to what is the FULL and proper UNDERSTANDING of physics/physical experience, AS E=mc2 IS F=ma; AS ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY. The INTEGRATED EXTENSIVENESS of THOUGHT (AND description) is improved in the truly superior mind. (THOUGHTS ARE INVISIBLE.) GREAT.
    THE DOME of a person's EYE is ALSO VISIBLE. The balance of being AND EXPERIENCE is essential. The EARTH is ALSO BLUE (as water). Alas, the ULTIMATE unification of physics/physical experience combines, BALANCES, AND INCLUDES opposites; as ELECTROMAGNETISM/ENERGY IS GRAVITY; AS E=mc2 IS F=ma. Gravity IS ELECTROMAGNETISM/energy.
    By Frank DiMeglio