Julian Barbour on "The Janus Point: A New Theory of Time" | Closer To Truth Chats
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ค. 2024
- Physicist Julian Barbour discusses his newest book, "The Janus Point: A New Theory of Time." In it, Barbour makes the radical argument that the growth of order drives the passage of time -- and shapes the destiny of the universe.
Read "The Janus Point": www.basicbooks.com/titles/jul...
Julian Barbour's Website: www.platonia.com/
Julian Barbour is a physicist with research interests in quantum gravity and the history of science. Since receiving his PhD degree on the foundations of Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity at the University of Cologne in 1968, Barbour has supported himself and his family without an academic position, as an author and translator.
Watch more Closer To Truth interviews with Julian Barbour: bit.ly/3eIW96E
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Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
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This series has been my ‘go to’ place for all things metaphysical. The topics and discussion points are fascinating and I do feel I’m a better person for having listened to these programmes. Thank you
In memory of my friend Ahmed and his music
th-cam.com/video/Ne3Geqq-i_Y/w-d-xo.html
👌🎶🎵⭐✨❤️🌍🙏
@@LivingNow678 thanks for sharing, that was a nice gift ;)
@@nilsacred8180 you are welcome 🙏
And how about all things sane and rational, with no histrionics attached.
Like a fine wine you improve with age. The interviews just keep getting better. Thank you.
Robert Kuhn is superb and his work has enlightened so many of us. Thank you Sir for the marvellous “Closer To The Truth”!
I'd like to chime in on that, Linus! His interviews exceed mere gathering of perspectives and viewpoints and they have grown into something like an artform - to my eyes, ears and "gray matter" at least :-) ! Quality of content, production, post-pro, presentation of course - all top notch! I enjoy these episodes, both the longer more in-depth interviews with multiple speakers as well as the "one on one" or "heart to heart" kinda format like here as well as the briefer ones of less than 15 minutes. Always enlightening and engaging, wonderful food for thought for inquisitive minds and seekers! Keep them coming, Dr. Kuhn!
Thanks, appreciate - but no "the" ;-) Robert
Very well articulated and a fitting description of Mr. Kuhn’s valuable contribution to greater understanding. Thanks to the many interviews he has conducted with leading physicists, our home library is dotted with the books authored by the scientists he has made us aware of. I am further enlightened and stand corrected....Closer To Truth it is indeed!
inke said he had
I concur
Listening to this while taking a smoke break, it's a light rain occurring as he describes it, watching the drifting smoke being moved as the droplets pass thru unhindered,and splash points radiating outward..spiritually, this speaks to me as well..
Me Too listening ans sm0king marijuana and grooving on this.
That's what Mr Green said in 1977.
Fundamentally, there are 2 types of time. All of humanity's problems in attempting to understand it is because their research, scientific views, imagination and philosophies are developed within the context of the 1st type of time
@Joanna d'Arc Fundamentally, there are 2 types of time. All of humanity's problems in attempting to understand it is because their research, scientific views, imagination and philosophies are developed within the context of the 1st type of time
giving all of your conscience attention to nature for a little while always repays the effort
Back in the day, the days before the internet, all we had was old dusty books and more old dusty books in the library. A few years back I went to a library and saw many of the same old dusty books. Used correctly the Internet can open your mind
Indeed r/neuronaut
@Pat Mahon join me in studying it (part time journaling)? r/neuronaut 😊
So true a great educational tool.
Et les travaux du scientifique Jean Pierre Petit, qui en parle depuis des années : on en parle ou pas ?!!
And the work of scientist Jean Pierre Petit, who has been talking about it for years: are we talking about it or not? !! 🤔
😘😉
This makes a lot of sense to me. It just 'feels' right. And somehow, I find it very uplifting.
Because Theories remain as theories for so long, many other theories are possible. As einstein said, Imagination encircles the world
Every bit as good as the in-person interviews, excellent quality.
Really interesting discussion. Thanks so much for everything you do!
Barbour, to me, is one of the most “out of the box” (note the double entendre) thinkers of modern physics. I can marginally understand him.
Eurika!
"The Janus Point: A New Theory of Time" Time is Special in it's Behaviour is what he is saying. People don't like when some is 'special' you know? they say: "Oh, aren't You so Special!"
Robert Kuhn and his interviews have taught me more about the world around me than any other person. What an incredible guy!
Time is. But your perspective ,at 1 that is 100pr at 10 it's 10pr .at 50 WTF
When I was younger I pondered how it would be to try and develop and understanding of "the universe" from the perspective of being fish in a bowl looking out through the glass. "Looking" was the piece that struck me .. I felt as observers we are drawn to giving things dimensions and scales and quickly run out of descriptors after that.
Definitely “closer to truth” with this dude. Bravo Zulu.
this is my favorite of your interviews
Augustus de Morgan: “great fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite ‘em, and little fleas have lesser fleas, and so ad infinitum”
Size is relative, not absolute. Funny really how none of these ideas are new, merely not conventionally accepted. It takes someone to be brave enough to put them all together and shout about them. Well done.
This isn’t how reality works. Non-locality kicks in at some point. The universe is finite in both directions.
@@quantumbuddhist Of course
Repeat that please. Beautiful. I love it ! That makes a difference.
I love this info. Thank you ❣
I enjoyed the discussion very much. It helped me to better understand some of the points made in the book. Julian Barbour takes us to a new way of looking at TIME.
As I understand, there were two universes created from the Janus point, the three-dimensional representation of these two universes looks like lotus flowers with petals beginning to fold back on themselves as the expansion becomes great. If this pattern is extended, I believe these shapes curve back and are drawn into the Janus point from each side, the two universes being opposite each other.
The universe folds back through the fourth dimension so gets back to the center of the universe at the same time it began, it is a continuous flow so the universe is recreating itself just by existing.
wow
As it collapses it makes more structures counteracting or shaping the collapse so it is organised in a particular way. Showing the universe could get more intelligent or complicated each time. And explaining why animals seem to be more intelligent or complex than the ones they replaced.
Wonderful interview!
Thanks for a great discussion
Dr. Barbour is one of the most brilliant independent thinkers about time and cosmology. His book, The End of Time, should be read by everyone interested in the philosophy of time.
5:00 very interesting idea. Like the ying and yang of the universe.
I was smitten with your angular positioning and question of time weeks ago...I feel excited to review it again.
it's hard to call any of these excellent when they're all excellent
this one is extra excellent
Robert Lawrence Kuhn is the perfect guy for finding truth. Superbly interviews the greatest thinkers of our time(which is no easy feat). Nobody is better at bringing self awareness/reflection to these sort of questions. Thanks for the great work!
I have to say that I better understand Julian's point about entropy than the traditional view. Indeed, I thought that I was stupid when I heard from physicists that the big bang was the point with less entropy and the disorder has been growing up since then and it will continue doing so forever. The big bang was indeed the most uniform state! Thank you Julian. Now I am not thinking that I am stupid. The point about the assumption of the experiment of the second law of thermodynamics is also very interesting. We are always talking about entropy within the universe, but the original experiment was done in a box! That's a clearly contradictory. Great point as well.
I find the declared intention of “Closer to Truth” in the video description interesting. It claims to be “exploring humanity’s deepest questions” and to “discover fundamental issues of existence”. It is perhaps in the nature of scientific enquiry always to be an estimate and always to be wrong. Being open to this concept is how we manage to learn. What is important is how the effect of our current notion of knowledge affects our attitudes and behaviour and the priority that is given, compared with other demands and interests. We need to get that sorted out, if we want to continue with learning in the long-term, rather than following a road to human-created destruction in the short-term. I wish you well.
I would love to see a debate between Julian Barbour and Leonard Susskind on the topic of time!
Susskind would just get nasty, smart guy but doesn’t impress me at all.
Well he does impress me, but is that a criterium for judging someone’s work by “how much ‘the person’ impresses others?” The judgment should be as subjective as possible, IMHO.
@@shera4211 obviously, you want to see a debate between them.
@@clemsonalum98 Being friends with Feynman would probably obviously think you're smarter than most people, but that's because he really is. Although I do wish he coulda inherited the happy funny humor from his friend, Susskind has his own kind of appeal in my opinion
I would rather see it with Sean Carroll instead.
Thank You
Keep up the great work.
No mention of Prigogine, who built his science around the system being not in a box?!!
Non-equilibrium thermodynamics was well-developed by the 1970s by Ilya Prigogine. Research of others on evolutionary thermodynamics in the 1980s had firmly arrived at Barbour's conjecture that the direction of evolution is NOT toward greater entropy, but toward growing structure and order (See Theory of Radially Evolving Energy, 1989, Int'l Journal of Gen'l Systems, vol. 16). Barbour's assertion that nobody was thinking of this merely reflects his ignorance.
And where is mention of any of the work or theories of David Bohm? Or Stephen Wolfram?
My sense is that Dr. Barbour has not read widely enough outside his own historical research and analysis of Einstein's work to realize that he is not ahead, but rather a bit behind the cutting edge of evolutionary theory sub-Planck-scale in his 1999 publication. He has been working maybe in too private an academic bubble?
These are debates within the structure of Physics but zoom way out and imagine that these scientific gyrations are simply like games of chess on a giant board which is within and NOT outside of our human consciousness. Who knows what exists OUTSIDE the boxes of our limited consciousness. Within our consciousness we are trapped into creating these imaginary scenarios and in proving them as if they actually exist.😲
Does a mirror have awareness?
I never read about David Bohm too much until after your comment. Just learnt about his research on consciousness. Blew my mind. Thanks for the valuable information!
@@subhendukarmakar2767 I had to get myself at least a little bit up to speed regarding Bohm/Pribahn and their ideas of "hidden variables" or the "implicate order" of things. I found those ideas very exciting as well when preparing for an interview with Mr. Tom Campbell and his trilogy "My Big T.O.E." and subsequent work. Apparently, Mr. Campbell didn't quite share my enthusiasm regarding those ideas. But I leave it up to the (potential) visitor /viewer what to make of the latter. The video will appear at this playlist in a couple of days: th-cam.com/play/PLmieT_oAkXddLO1IgU1rD3NBJQ_p6LQ5e.html (it's the fourth one, currently set to "private" and going public this coming Friday if you were interested)
My mind is still reeling from conceptual overload. Food for thought upgraded to banquet. Thank you.
Great video.
Thanks!
Barbour is a genius in my estimation. He is not afraid to challenge conventional wisdom.
We learn by contrast and detect variety. Decimal expansion is a subtle distinction
Universal Engines (U.E.'s) contain numerous lesser universes (l.u.'s) that simultaneously expand and contract like heartbeats.*
When U.E.'s are "born" the l.u.'s start off in an expansion phase.
When the heat becomes depleted within each of the l.u.'s, black holes vacuum up the remaining matter, but there isn't enough material for the black holes to reach a critical mass, therefore they are drawn towards the center of the U.E.'s within the borders of the l.u.'s where they are able to borrow enough energy from the U.E.'s reserves to kickstart the next expansion phase within the l.u.'s.
Eventually the wellspring within the U.E.'s will themselves become depleted preventing the further expansions experienced within the l.u.'s.
There are as many U.E.'s as there are photons being generated from a star (as an analogy, just imagine if photons acquired an increment of mass after being expelled from the star that generated them).
With that said., the universe "we" find ourselves in are one of many that serve as incubators, hatcheries and nurseries for the seeds that are "our" souls (which happen to look like stars, though intangible to physical senses) where germinating within is the only way out.
Life is not about fate, fear, love or worship, it's perseverance in determining who, what and why "we" are by choosing to compost the ignorance in/of "our" daily lives, from life to life.**
Consciousness is also the developing character within the soul tied to the physical body whether it be made of Mineral, Vegetable or Animal.
"God" is a being of essence that, although has already been conceived, can only find actuality through the uploading of information/data that are "we."
* which explains deja vus
** flesh is as soil, souls are as seeds and the awareness within is as an embryo
Where's my MacArthur Grant?
Oh, that's right., I'm only a philosophical prodigy that can recall other lifetimes or basically a no-body.
Lol
The metaphors that describe science are very important to review and rexamine.
Fascinating stuff!!
I wonder after having watched this:
Do growth of structure and emergence of variety equal increasing complexity? Or.ARE these two ideas indeed equivalent to each other?
And : If there is supersymmetry wouldn't it account for all of the universe and all of what the cosmos is about like e.g. matter and antimatter? In other words: If there is supersymmetry and we see it occur, wouldn't it have to apply to "the box (encompassing the system) as well? Or was I not making sense at all with this?
Yes, variety IS life. I've noticed that when there is parallel adaptation, one of them Will die off. Life doesn't stive on repetitive survival.
Thinking outside the box. The assumptions have been questioned by many, although not by any of those that you have encountered “ in the box”.
Similar path and thoughts as Howard Bloom. Especially in regards to entropy and the increase in structure.
Are we headed towards a kind of climax of structured shapes in our cosmos?
The first person who proposed that there are regions of space were time goes in reverse and does not admit light was William James Sidis in 1925 in a book entitled "Animate and Inanimate" He was thought to have had an IQ of 260, and was admitted to Harvard at the age of 11 in 1909.
😘
An IQ of 260 does not exist because it cannot be measured.
@@BritishBeachcomber Not correct Peter. First of all it all depends on which scale you are using, as there are a number of them. A psychologist once estimated Sidis's IQ at between 250 to 300. Academically, he was good enough to be accepted into Harvard at age 9, though not actually admitted until 11 years old.
In addition he was fluent in dozens of languages at a young age.
So my daughter's bedroom does not have increasing entropy, it's simply untidy!
When she leaves home in the future her room will resolve to the past order. In my humble opinion.
Uh, I’m thinking you are never late, just happening.
If there's nobody in the room to see the clutter...is the clutter really there?
Yet on the opposite side of the universe, it's completely clean
Does the growth of mould mean increased structure?
ive just bought the book on amazon... Fascinating, I've always wondered why i had to learn the Schrodinger equation using a particle in a box/constrained potential. 😀
Excellent idea of the Janus point with the arrow of time pointing in opposite directions ( I have an other problem with this as time is actually a scalar, however) as nature abhors asymmetry. So the question is, did all the antimatter flow along the opposite time flow to ours and why antimatter is rare in this universe?
I would point to the Pauli Exclusion Principle to further argue his point. There will always be a difference in the energies of objects therefore there will always be change.
Arthur M Young has been ahead of these astrophysicists all along, he proposed the Toroidal shape of the universe, and its eternal cycle in the 1980's, the growth of novelty and movement towards purpose.
Time is an illusion. There is only a now. A single pane of moving things.
so what are the implimications of having an unbounded wave function of the universe?
Why would there be a limit of 2 universes flowing from the Janus point?
Presumably because shape dynamics is a theory of a sequence of 3 dimensional shapes (of the universe) and a sequence (when an arbitrary point is chosen) has only two directions. A more interesting question might be why 3 dimensional conformal geometry and not some other number?
Changing it shape it shape of the universe greatness
24:50, this particular form, according to the Vedas,
is the Cosmic Egg.
They describe the cosmic egg as the fundamental
form of the creation of a universe. In each case
of a universe of countless many.
Wonderful ideas.. going to the brink of being fantastical.
In memory of my friend Ahmed and his music
th-cam.com/video/Ne3Geqq-i_Y/w-d-xo.html
👌🎶🎵⭐✨❤️🌍🙏
Thanks
I suggest looking into traditional Buddhist and Vedic cosmologies & notions of "time." Might find it amusing, at least.
To a hammer everything looks like a nail... to a physicist the universe looks like numbers... the Vedas describe the Veda in terms of metaphor... combining the two is solving the puzzle
@@Jonathan-si2nd Vedic & Tibetan Physics is nothing of the sort.
Superb
Vous pilliez les travaux de Jean Pierre Petit....
I like that the more advanced the Physics, the more poetic reality becomes. Really good to see top notch physicists like Julian Barbour “thinking outside the box”! Strangely, Lee Smolin who also criticises reductive “Physics in a box” thinking, in “Time Reborn” comes to an opposite conclusion - that time is real and fundamental!
To be frank, I'm not really sure that Julian is a top notch physicist! Certainly his ideas don't seem to have gained any traction over the years, with people who do have some idea of what he is talking about.
@@MrDorbel Yes... I admire that he works outside of academia, yet still publishes on issues like the reality of time that attract comment from establishment physicists. However, being an outsider may mean his views gain less traction... and his views are undoubtedly unusual, and are either genius, or cranky.
@@uremove Personally I am not qualified to say which!
@@MrDorbel No... me neither. Maybe we will only know in retrospect.
@@uremove I'm not sure that retrospect is something that exists in Julian's model!
I learned in my psychology courses, the engineer's way we accepted to view the laws of thermodynamics is called functional fixedness. I am gladdened to have my thinking plausibly put right. For quite a long while I have been trying to see the universe in a more protean way. Maybe I should call this the "Proteus Principal." The basis for this approach is to consider quantum effects as an expression of accommodation for a likely counterpart to the dimensioned reality we find ourselves a part of and try so hard to know and understand. The "Janus Principle" strikes me as a step in this direction, which may well be the right direction.
Brilliant
I just ordered this book on Amazon
Have you read it yet? What did you think?
Dissipation carries information that is conserved. It can be seed for self organization and build structure
I understood about 75-80% of that... That makes me feel good lol.
i understood about 10% of that, makes me feel very bad.
This was very interesting. But I'm quite sure that Roger's conformal cosmology has nothing to do with a collapsing universe though. I will be reading Julian's book. Will we ever understand entropy? Happy Christmas everyone.
Is janus point close to Bimetric gravity, a model called the "janus model" by Jean Pierre Petit?
😘
New content brings us closer to the truth.
In memory of my friend Ahmed and his music
th-cam.com/video/Ne3Geqq-i_Y/w-d-xo.html
👌🎶🎵⭐✨❤️🌍🙏
Looking at the Mars pictures on-line today I was made to think about why they were so excited to see variety in the geology....
great intvw thx
Robert should interview Rupert Sheldrake. I think he may find his ideas of morphic resonance interesting. Rupert is highly knowledgeable in science, religion and philosophy.
Smaller than planck length can be measured with time? Certainty of classic matter becomes probability of quantum energy that might be measured with time?
How did electromagnetic wave(s) start? Do electromagnetic waves come from gravity?
Nice video. Philochrony is the theory that describes the nature of time and demonstrates its existence. Time is magnitive: objective, Imperceptible (intervals) and measurable (duration).
Im not a scientist by any means. But when I read a book about fundamental particles, and that an antimatter atom of opposite spin and (is it chirality?) Traveling backwards in time would be identical to its normal matter counterpart, I started wondering if the big bang was a point and on either side the matter and antimatter separated, which explained where all the missing antimatter was. Maybe.makes less sense than I thought but over the years i keep seeing articles that jive with it.
I'm confused by one thing with respect to this Janus point. Why only two directions of time from this point? If time is "expanding" from a point, why wouldn't there be 360 degrees of time (from the perspective if a 2D plane) or (more likely) time arrows along every infinitesimal radian emanating from a sphere? Is his "two directions of time" merely a simplification?
It is all well and done, cosmic egg and all, but none of the king's men could put Humpty Dumpty together again: arrow of time
i need to talk with this man cause he said it seems like no one is talking about physics like this but i have come to an incredibly similar concept myself, just listening to ever physics video i can find
Life could go on forever.... with movement....!!!!!
Life is infinite has The universe itself, whit many changes in their cicles of life.
Do quantum fields use energy to increase information (particles) and build pockets of structure?
Thanks to take me back to the point -again- of “who is right”?
Peccato non ci siano i sottotitoli..
Julian's new book has just arrived, interesting theory and looking forward to reading in more detail.
Cyclical is the only truth I come up with in the end of every theory. Caos into order, before it spirals out again. The biggest thing is the smallest, the furthest thing is you self.
Penrose's CCC model is the most elegant of all. It doesn't rely on collapses as oppose to what was said in the video.
I always said it wasn't expanding from one spot (big bang) - I always thought that there was just eddies and currents in an infinite eternal universe, like smoke swirling around in space. A universe that paradoxically has no beginning, and it has no end. We are already in "forever". In some regions of our infinite universe most of the stars and planets are moving away from each other, while in other parts of the infinite universe everything is all moving together. It's all just an illusion, and it simply depends on what part of the infinite universe that you're in, that will be your perspective.
Or you’re completely wrong. I think you’re referring to Max Tegmark’s classification of a level 3 or 2 multiverse, I forget which
@@SirArthurTheGreat I'm not referring to anyone, it's just the way it obviously is
Interesting. Gotta get and read this book. Always questioned our definition/description of entropy... either key characteristics are missing or our current definition isn't very accurate {and may be completely wrong... logic is: history of developing/changing/improving knowledge on past theories of other knowledge).
All the points covered in the interview point to a promising new model of cosmology. But I get lost in the lengthy discussions in the book. At time times I feel like Barbour is a physicist speaking in tongues. (I wish someone had re-organinzed the book for him.) I'm 2/3rds through Barbour's book and find it slow going despite having an undergrad degree in physics.
Also note that Arieh ben-Naim has some interesting books describing entropy based on Shannon's Measure of Information.
32:00 i think penrose doesn't say it finishes with everything collapsing into a black hole, his idea of "aeons" says the black holes evaporate and what you are left with is a universe populated by particles travelling at the speed of light, and therefore however "big" the universe has become size and time have no meaning, massless particles don't experience time and therefore distance has no meaning - it's a singularity but it can be any size.
Agree. That's my understanding also from watching Penrose videos.
Entropy resets in the Inertial plane of scalable Aether's hyperboloid. The Inertial plane expands and spikes across the entire Universe. The Inertial plane is "Condensate of Universe", from Counterspace. The Inertial plane doesn't have time, space, information, gravity, ... The Inertial plane connects to every hyperboloid, vortex and torus in the Universe. Electron Probability Patterns have hyperboloids, vortices and toruses. The shapes of Aether.
Scalable Aether, Casimir Effect Universe!
As the present moves into future, do quantum fields use energy to increase information and structure for the present; while classic information evenly distributes entropy and equilibrium in the past? Can quantum future take energy from classic past to increase information for structured present?
i blindly followed the 2nd law till now ...
how can anyone judge the universe on a studied steam engine back in the day ...
perhaps scientists are like doctors ... just human.
thanks julian & the man
Thank to him, I free myself from a terrible existencial crisis, now I know that The universe have no aging and is eternal as infinite.
Great book. Read it during lock down. Think I grasped it. Not completely sure.
People try to explain the expanding and collapsing universe as entropy.
I think we were all entangled at one point in time so the farther away we get from our entangled particles the more force gets exerted slowing down the expansion of the universe which in and of itself will cause it to recollapse because everything happens in a cycle in the universe.
The only way for infinity to be realized is for it to continuously happen over and over and over again forever.
Taking into account that this is infinitively happening (including the one universe where it doesn't) then one can only extrapolate (before I figure out what calculations to observe to make it so) that we don't know what is going on other than the universe is big. Really big. And our observations are the only thing that cements reality.
Until we observe what we are trying to know the answer is everything. Once we observe the our come is determined and entanglement's hidden force pulls time both ways.
12-19-2020
The universe is beyond of our mortal understanding, is foolish for us try even think it have a end, because it's not.
The arrow of time can be explained by the fact that a function can only have one output for each input. If the universe can be described by one single function, there has to be one and only one dimension in which it is irreversible. I’m not saying that dimension is time, our universe seems to have a lot of dimensions, but time is definitely more closely related to the irreversible dimension than space.
There are two kinds of things, things and the relations between them. Those relationships can always be expressed geometrically because everything is expressible in relation to space and time. Ratios can be used to express a scale between those things in various relations.
There are 2 types of time. All of humanity's problems in trying to understand it, time, is because their research, scientific views and philosophies are developed within the context of the 1st type of time
Interesting, could you elaborate please ?
@@dennisgalvin2521 Thanks for responding
The explanation is very quite lengthy and abstract at best so....I will try to present it in an abbreviated. heuristic fashion.....give me time.
I won't rely on cogitation as much as a revelatory type of experience
@Neil 1st
He was wise to get out of the academic ratrace. I know a physicist who did that since you are only "allowed" to have a certain class of theories if you expect advancement and tenure - or sometimes keeping a position at all. Still, I wonder how Google Translate is impinging on the translation business. A little more AI and they'll all be out of business 😀
So why only two directions? Why not all directions? And what is a direction?
Isn't there the concept negentropy to mean the opposite of entropy?