Why and How Eddie Van Halen Played Out of Tune
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- Lets set the record straight, with proof, on how, and why, the greatest rock guitarist of our time PLAYED OUT OF TUNE. He wanted it this way on purpose...not just the slack tuning for intonation but the entire guitar out of tune.
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At around :40 in my video I failed miserably at giving Pete Thorn credit for his clip. He is a fantastic guitar player and his channel is awesome!! Go check him out here…
th-cam.com/users/PeteThorn
Love Pete's content!
Pete is a fantastic musician and guitar player, he also understands tone, again he's great no doubt
@@RockinSG me too!
@@mikeponce1983 yes I’m a fan of his channel and his playing for sure!
@Matt_Dylan No, he didn't tune to Eb exactly. Watch the video. :)
Eddie wasn't out of tune, the rest of the universe was.
True Story...
No.
It was he that was in tune with the universe and his environment, and anyone tuning A to 440 cycles is not. But I liked the ring your statement had to it! Perhaps paraphrase it to the rest of the western world and you would be on the money.
It's a pity we can't all trust each other. I thought music was a universal way to try and bind us together.
@@Richielion2 it is, but the governmental powers are corrupting the power of music.
Given that Eddie hated people copying him, I wonder if the tuning thing was partially to make it that much harder to learn his tricks by ear off the record.
That’s smart
Nah, it's simply to minimize inherent dissonances on major 3rds. Major and Minor 3rds aren't mathematically perfect as simple tuning theory tries to make it. And double on top of that the inaccuracies of fret spacing and triple more how string tension, gravity, and attack velocity all warp the string out of tune. you can address the issue by having the open strings out of tune with each other, so that the triads that you fret are in tune. It's not as hard or as esoteric as the video makes it out to be... it's just "tuning for the chord" you are using...it's easy, intuitive stuff.
@Matt_Dylan That's not what this video shows, and it's not what EVH himself said. Are you repeating something someone told you?
@@Feverdream7777 You didn't watch the video. The video does the exact opposite of making it sound esoteric, and it's addressing something your comment is ignoring entirely.
Eddie copied people the man that invented tapping was a Mexican way before he was born their is way better than ed
Tuning those whammys was a bitch. He probably didn't want to spend all day tuning to A=440Hz. Been there.
His original guitar didn't use the Floyd Rose that you're thinking of, as it hasn't been invented yet. The whammy bar system he used was closer to a Fender Strat that you can dive down but not pull out. Those aren't as much of a bitch to tune but wouldn't stay in tune as much since it didn't have the locking nut. Later in his career during the 80's he was using a Floyd Rose system witch every guitarist needs.
Symptomatic of a bad guitar setup.
@@trollerswifthasenteredthec1970 Yes,I agree.When he started to use the keyboard more then,which was after the change to the Floyd,then playing live and recording things tended to stay pretty much in E standard tuning. Once the keyboard is introduced you are going to gravitate to it's tuning,because adjusting the tuning and transposing arrangements is a migger pain in the ass than just tuning the guitars and bass to E standard.It's the most common sense adjustment to make. In the early days with Dave and before the keyboards,and live...I think they played in E flat tuning.By the 1984 album,Eddie had the Floyd and was integrating the keyboard...and then when Sammy entered the scene the shift had been made to E standard.
@@trollerswifthasenteredthec1970 Na. Fuck that. I hate Floyd Rose. Haven't been able to stand those things since I started in the 90s. One guitar a Floyd was enough for me.
But tuning all strings to something else than A = 440 Hz is just as difficult or easy as tuning them to A = 440 Hz. You still have to tune them to the exact same pitch ratios. If you don't, that would be a different tuning-related topic.
Eddie just being Eddie, didn’t rely on anything else, fully trust himself. That’s how every human being should be.
"fully trust himself".....very well said my friend 😎
Not in this case.
Tell that to your band when they fired you for never tuning up lol
OSHA would disagree.
Not at all
Eddie was his own man. Shame he's gone, but at least we had him > twice as long as Hendrix. I feel very lucky to have had the fortune of being alive during 60's and 70's music as a kid. RIP EVH 🎸
Agreed!
Twice as long ? Jimi in 48 months of material has out played all that followed ,
go listen to Machine Gun Live at the Filmore .
@@CP-kb1du I agree completely. I was lamenting Eddie's passing before we could see what he'd create as a Senior Ambassador of 70's on Rock. I didn't mean to diminish Jimi at all. The > was just to shorthand "more than" as in inferring the World and Rock and music lost Jimi far far far too early, so in comparison we had EVH an eternity. Like, what ? 10X longer ? But I didn't want it to look like a put down comparison, but appreciation that relatively speaking, Eddie had a long career. And being a guitarist myself 🎸 , just name checking two stellar Giants. ✌ Bro 😎
@@CP-kb1du jimi couldn't outplay a 5 year old at scrabble. Stop adding to the nonsense, you affected pansy.
@@CP-kb1du Okay, David Crosby. Go drink your prune juice
Dimebag did this too. Makes sense as Eddie was his favorite.
The music was alive. That’s the difference between older music and music of today. It was human.
I like that! Maybe that's why hardly anything in the last 15+ years sounds interesting. I seen a research someone did on why computer created music sounded so boring. They concluded that the notes were too perfect. The human added ultra subtle differences in everything touch of the fingers and every blow of breath into the instrument, and that's what makes it interesting.
Good comment!
Do you want to tune your entire guitar? Guitar builder John Suhr was asked this on a podcast once, he said never to use open strings to tune, the nut is the worst part of the guitar. Use the 3rd fret note on each string to tune. Of course, set up is important: your neck relief, intonation at the bridge & action at the nut should be low enough to not pull the strings sharp when you fret closer to the nut but not too low that your open string buzzes.
For years, nay; for decades, I could never get that damn D chord to sound in tune on any guitar unless I tuned specifically to that chord, but doing that would throw the rest of the guitar out of tune. Now everything I play is in tune.
Yeah, intonation on the guitar is a real nightmare for these reasons. Having fine work done like you described gets it sounded pretty good, but it's never perfect.
Great comments!
The guitar is an imperfect instrument. Especially when you have guys like EVH doing a lot of triad riffs on the middle strings. I've read where a lot of producers on other bands and groups will actually record all parts that sound best in perfect tuning and then "punch-in" each segment to make the whole song be perfectly in tune. Not Van Halen. They recorded live, for the most part. It's why the album and the live show sounded so similar. I remember a Guitat World Magazine interview with EVH many many years ago where he called the B string, the "bitch string." He said he fiddled with it on every song to make it right.
Analog VCO synths are popular these days... with all the old problems: drifting while warming up, drifting over time, noise, etc. Even analog emulations don't sell like physical analog synths. I bring this up because the imperfections are what make an instrument. Saxophones, guitars, pianos, have their limits for example... and it's on and through those limits where people let their creativity and talent shine... just like Eddie exploited the limits of his guitar.
Yea. I always tune to the 5th fret of my guitars. Just always sounded right to me. Tuning to the 3rd fret sounds good if youre playing a lot of traditional chords, so you’re right.
Eddie was the most unconventional guitarist there ever was. He was unique
in his playing and search for the ultimate tone. There will never be another "Eddie".
Totally agree Bert!
@@BobbyHuff how did he play live? was he in standard (or drop) tuning or did his and Michael's Techs just have to be genius's and fast?
@@TheVinceb100 I’m not quite sure. Prob tuned to E flat with the Roth stuff and if it drifted out of tune it didn’t really matter much because it was just guitar and bass. He def had to grab another guitar that was in tune for the keyboard tunes. If he needed drop d tuning for a song he prob used his D Tuna mechanism on his tailpiece. Thanks for watching!
There’s been many unconventional guitarists who changed rock music & music in general, Django Reinhardt, Les Paul, Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page, Randy Rhoads & many more… I feel like painting him as the _most unconventional guitarist of all time_ takes a lot away from other guitarist who were without question extremely important to rock music & music in general….
@@lect0n7 Also Chet Atkins who was one of the first, if not the first guitarist to use a pick on his thumb.
From what I have read, and heard, EVH wasn't "out of tune." He tuned his guitar/s to Eb. Not standard 440. He tuned his B string down a bit to get sweeter Major 3rd intervals for the A shape barre chords but other than that, his guitar was not out of tune--to Eb tuning. All strings were tuned down a half-step, to Eb tuning. On songs like Unchained he used Db/C# tuning.
he wasn't tuned to E flat. You know how when you pluck a string while tuning, it is immediately sharp but then drops in pitch? Eddie tuned so that that the pitch wasn't sharp at first but it dropped to a little flat. he was sort of tuned to e flat but a little off.
Eddie specifically said, "I just tune the guitar to whatever it is" in a Guitar article in 87. He also alluded to this in an early interview when asked about his vibrato set up. Glorious! Thank you, Doc!
I would tune to the phone back in the 80s. In Sweden at least, if you would pick up a phone there would be a dial tone. I knew it was a slightly low A, so I listened to it and tuned the A string a little bit higher to get a good enough A.
....american dial tones were tuned to F i believe?
Huh. I always heard they were “A” here in the states too but never tried it. Now I feel like I must. Got a landline?
U.S. was a slightly sharp A.
Closer to a “B” note, but about 6 cents flat. That is, in NY.
We had an A=440 dial tone here in Canada.
That's how you get to be THE GOAT....Eddie did it his way...that's why with your eyes closed and no clue. When you hear Eddie play, you know it's Eddie....he had his own special touch....there will never be another❤🙏🎸
EVH was a modern day musical genius,the BEST EVER.there will definitely never be another like Eddie,R.I.P. Mr. Van Halen.
Many musicians better than him
let's not forget about Mr Rhoades he definitely had some skills
Dimebag. Full stop, the end, no further debate.
@@MrSkinkarde Who?
Didn't EVH admit to tuning down a half step on a lot of stuff?
Also, is it really fair to compare the RWTD tuning to anything with keys on it? EVH would have been forced to tune to the keyboards. He would not have retuned a piano or wurlitzer to match the guitar....it would have been way easier to just tune to whatever keyboard was being used, and those keyboard centric tunes are pretty accurate from what I remember...
Was he sober during the interview?
A ton of bands tune half a step down. That’s not the case on early VH
Only for Roth's vocals.
@@AxelSpott that is the case on early Van Halen,where have you been
I love how Eddie relied on "relative tuning" rather than a tuner. What a true genius! Great video
there's nothing genius about it. You must not play guitar. Eddie just did it so it would make it more difficult to learn his songs. It was a stupid thing to do because then every time a studio musician needs to work on it, he's got to figure out some special tuning first.
BAHAHAHA@@jimbeam-ru1my
So Ed didn't play "out of tune." He tuned the guitar to itself, had Mike tune to him and the magic happened. Unconventional? Yes. Wrong? Absolutely not.
Out of tune? Yes. Tuned relative to anyone does not mean in tune with notes. It's laziness. Why do we excuse laziness because someone was a superstar?
@@JTguitarlessons I agree. OK if there are only two peoples, but before tuners, we used tuning forks, harmonic plucks and our ears - like Rory Gallagher, for example. I’ve huge time for EVH, but the out of tune chords and solos put me off: that’s why I agree.
So yes: out of tune
@@JTguitarlessons who is the arbiter of “laziness”? YOU? You’re one of those people who set your cruise control exactly to the speed limit and then drive in the left lane, aren’t you. Even an orchestra tunes to the oboe.
In the words of Sgt Hulka - “lighten up, Francis.”
@@JTguitarlessons he's dead, let him be a little lazy
Back in the early 80's when I was just a kid with no money for lessons, tuners and multiple guitars I tuned to Alex Lifeson tuning his guitar harmonically in the middle of 2112. If Eddie had put a song with him tuning up I probably would have been a bigger Van Halen fan.
Same idea for me too. I tuned to the first "E" of Day Tripper when i was 15 back in the 80's
...that's all 'Wabi-sabi' according to DLR; i would enthusiastically agree 😎
No wonder I struggled so much. I tuned to the E on running with the devil.
@@mikebehrend3152 hahahahah
Love Alex’s playing too!!
The best ever example of utilizing dissonance from bending a string out of tune is when Brad Gillis was doing the intro section to Believer at the 1982 irvine meadows show. It stopped ozzy right in his tracks and he marveled in awe at Gillis creativity.
Probably why Ed was one of the all-time greats: he played by feel, not like a machine, which is what rock n roll is all about.
unfortunately..you cant play a guitar "by feel".....when playing chords the 6 strings have to be at least in tune with each other
@@HVYBASS cheers Eddie.
In my first (and only) guitar lesson, I was taught to tune the guitar to itself. It was recommended to practice that so you can always get your guitar ready to play even if you don't have a tuner. They also recommended that you tune your first string with a tuner so that you also get used to hearing what "in tune" properly sounds like. Unfortunately, I'm so completely tone deaf that I just can't tune the guitar against itself. It has to be really out of tune before I can tell there's something wrong.
Haha! Yeah it’s tough to tune by ear but is a good habit especially if your tuner battery dies in the middle of a set!
Hey Bobby. Eddie was the sole reason I started to really get serious about playing the guitar in the early 80’s, of course after hearing the monster Eruption solo. I always thought Eddie would always tune a half step to Eb, but I forgot about that interview when he would just tune up and have Michael tune up with him. Eddie was all about breaking the rules when it came to playing his guitar, as well as the construction of the Frankenstrat. One pick up, one volume knob. The guy was a genius, “through trial and error”he joked, destroying guitar bodies and necks. It’s a shame he’s gone. Very interesting and informative video. Thanks.
Man I totally agree! The best ever !
I play out of tune also. I'm going to call it a technique now.
I think DLR tuned to himself also!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
He was tuned to himself being out of tune.
It's not the first time a musician had to compensate for a singer or another musician.
I was thinking that... “What does it matter?” It *might* matter to your singer, trying to do it in what amounts to a micro-tonally different key every night. It might matter trying to do sweetening, tonal overdubs of any kind (guitar, bass, synth, or vox). It might matter if there was an issue on a punch-in or a tape drop out that needed fixing. But I guess it worked for him.
@@jukesjointOG Maybe. But, it seem to work out for them.
If he's not tone def. He would gravitate to whatever key the other instruments are playing. Common Sense.
Just as when the instruments change keys. His vocals also change keys.
He or she just follows the song.
whats funny is that even after tuning lower than standard, he would then tune individual STRINGS to fit certain key chords in whatever song. Mainly either higher or lower on the d, b, and high e strings depending on the song.
That's actually a much more interesting topic than simply tuning to A != 440 Hz. Unfortunately, the video only mentions it briefly at 0:25.
The hard part about this approach is if you touch up or add parts later, it’s a bit of a headache not being able to just tune to a tuner and track. You have to tune to the track. Unless you have a great ear, it’s a bit annoying. It’s usually best to have a guitar for tracking and a a guitar for riffing if possible.
the standard A=440 tuning has changed over time, during Mozart's era the standard was different, an A was at 421. Mozart thus was not "out of tune" Being in or out of tune has to do with the relative relationship between the notes. Eddie was in tune, he was just not matched to standard E or E flat tuning. Great video and I really like your channel.
He tuned his guitar to Mozart around 420 is what I got with Panama I thought he was implying it's weed smoking time
440 is a tuning causing discord in the universe.
432 is the frequency of the universe, cosmos, spiritual world, etc.
Where did you get that A was at 421? There were no oscilloscopes/electricity during Mozart's time to measure exact frequencies.
I read this many many years ago in a Guitar World article. “I’m in tune with my self” became our mantra with me and my friends. Love it. Good stuff. 👍😎
I challenge: just because Eddie doesn't adhere to a standardized tuning doesn't mean that he is out of tune. He's only out of tune with a standard, which is really just arbitrary. The ratios from pitch to pitch are still consistent and precise.
Maybe it depends on what being in tune means to you?
Are you joking or just dense?
Flat your b
Dude, he said a million times in the video that Eddie wasn't in tune with CONVENTIONAL TUNING. Stop typing just to type something and actually comprehend what the video is about.
I think I clarified that in the video that he was intonaed but not “In tune.”
@@kodykindhart5644 not joking. But not attacking either. Explain what you're upset about.
Dimebag also tuned his guitars differently. It's one of the reasons he had such a distinctive sound.
Not really. His specific gear choices got him that bone crushing tone.
It's not out of tune, It's simply not tuned to A 440. Go and watch Music Is Win's video about John Frusciante's tuning, and that would be way more relavant to The subject.
Eddie was never out of tune. A 440 is out of tune. ;-)
I’ve always noticed this on certain solos he did. I always figured the intonation was off or something. Yet his chords sounded perfectly in tune and gelled so well
A lot of early AC/DC and Black Sabbath are like this as well. The tunings are all over the place, very rarely are they near 440.
Great point
Funny....with Black Sabbath, I believe Tony's guitar is tuned correctly and that was his style was to pull certain notes of chords sharp. Not sure if this was intentional or if his hand injury was the cause of it, but if you're not doing it too - you won't sound like Black Sabbath no matter what else you do. It's critical for nailing Tony's "sound".
@ubatooba8467 I don't believe that's the case. If it were consistent, I'd buy that. The whole self-titled album is slightly flat and all of Paranoid is slightly sharp. Master and Vol. 4 are all over the place, some songs roughly 440hz. Lastly, the open strings in the songs are consistent with the fretted notes.
I've wondered for awhile now if someone would ever catch all the different tunings he did. I figured some out by ear. The 1st and 2nd strings are also tuned lower than the other 4 on Running with the Devil. Same thing with Unchained with the drop D. Thanks for posting this video. Ed was amazing
As mentioned there's "standard pitch" A=440hz or whatever standard is adhered to. Or not.
This doesn't really have anything to do with playing "out of tune" though, technically. Eddie did a lot of things, but playing out of tune wasn't one of them.
It boils all down to understand the natural overtone series vs. temperament tuning. And to understand the physical shortcomings of string instruments with frets.
EVH's approach has been around for centuries. Even the tuning fork Handel used in the premier of Messiah is A-423. A-440 wasn't a thing until the 1936 when after heavy lobbying it was adopted universally for commercial and economic reasons. Philharmonics all around Europe used to tune to wind instruments....which were always is the same range as EVH, which is slightly flat of A-440 Hz.
It seems to make sense to me. I was in high school in the early 80’s and until my senior year we didn’t have an electric tuner. We all tuned by ear to the piano. It seems realistic to me EVH would just tune to his own ear. My senior year when we did get a tuner I hated it. It was large and hard to read, so I still tuned by ear. EVH is older than me so I imagine he would feel more comfortable tuning to himself.
I read that interview with Ed about 2 decades ago. I've been adopting his tuning technique (dropping the B string, or in my case with 24" scale offsets, the G) to get the strings to ring out in tune on certain songs. Basically, I tune for the song, and the specific instrument I'm playing (I've got a lot of guitars, and I play them ALL, and know them well enough to get the best out of them). Even properly intonated, some are better than others.
The problem has to do with the guitar not being a "perfected" tempered tuning instrument. Buzz Feiten started putting out a system in the 90's to fix this, and Edward's Peavey modeis had this system I believe, one of the key features being the nut being slightly forward. I experimented with this on some old Harmony H-804's in high school and it actually worked really well, well enough that on any neck I've altered or built, I've copied that same tweak a little bit and it's worked great.
Someone gets it 🤫🤫🤫
The Wolfgang's (Peavy or EVH/Fender) never had the Buzz system built into the guitar as it is a patented system that would need to be legally acknowledged as having it. Ed's tech has said he sets up and tunes his guitars according to Ed's finger pressure. If you have a light touch, intonation will be more forgiving because it only changes the fretted notes a tiny bit, whereas if you have a heavy touch, like Ed had, the tuning can go out tremendously because of the pressure applied so the guitar's intonation would have to be adjusted accordingly. This was one of the tests that Ed used when he went looking for a tech. I've also read that Eddie tuned to a fretted E chord at the 7th fret to compensate for chord tuning differences and would cheat chords nearer the nut.
When I started out, back in the stone age, I had a tuning fork which I would use to tune my 5th string. Then, after I learned that the first note of "How Many More Times" (Led Zep) was an E, I would tune my 6th string to that. In either case the guitar was then tuned to itself. It was only after being in bands and having to be in tune with others that I started to use a tuner. But there are times (depending on what I'm playing) where a tuner never seems to be 100% accurate. And yes, it's usually between the G and the B string where the trouble lies.
I noticed the same thing on Shania Twain's album, The Woman in Me. "Any Man of Mine" and "Whose Bed Have Your Boots Been Under" were both about a quarter-tone away from 440.
Interesting!!!!
If you have a Peterson Strobe tuner you can download an EVH preset that will put you in tune with Eddie on the early albums.
He had amazing ears. He tuned to whatever sounded good to him. He’s telling the truth about never tuning to standard 440.
Relative tuning is laziness. Fame/super stardom doesn't excuse it. Open your eyes.
@@JTguitarlessons that's a shitty opinion. Lots of people use different tunings. It's rock and roll, not Mozart. Name me an EVH song that sounds like shit musically. And that's how I'll know you're full of shit.
Look up string temperament on fretted instruments like the one gentleman has been telling people to do. Then get back to me
eddie is the greatest of all time id argue that fact any day bc no one was as unique as evh and no one no matter who learns how to play the eruption solo will ever sound the eddies version there will and always will be one eddie van halen
Playing along with Pantera records presents a similar issue. Dime is tuned to E standard but at 425hz.
I'm surprised that the "keyboard tunes" weren't in A-440.
True. They must have changed the tuning on the keys. Easy enough on a synth. Not so easy on a piano!
Until the days of FM synthesis keyboards would drift with variations in the voltage. Bands would generally tune to the synth.
I think they were in 440!!
@@BobbyHuff that's what I think as well. Once the keyboards came in on those later songs they would more than likely be in 440. When you were saying "I'll Wait", etc. were out of tune it was in reference to the "Running With The Devil"
tuning.
@@liamfitzgerald7528 exactly Liam!!
I haven't played the guitar in 27 years ago tomorrow. That was the day I first heard Van Halen and gave my Stratocaster to my kid brother, switched to bass and learned to slap. A true inspiration. 👏
He wasn't out of tune. he was just tuned down for Roth's vocals in the early days.
Nope. if that was true then every song would be in the same tuning but it varies from song to song. sometimes its closer to E standard, sometimes are closer to Eb
The GOAT EVH! When I was young playing along to the early VH albums I always bothered to tune to the song and wondered why they didn't have a standard tuning. So frustrating when I was learning, LOL.
Music has NO Rules, period. When you put rules in you take the freedom OUT of music. And if music looses its freedom the true music is gone before it even starts. ED Vanhalen did NOT let anything or anyone take that Freedom away, A true Musician. -RJ.
Roe Jogan?
Not tuning to A=440 doesn't mean you're out of tune. Out of tune is out of tune with yourself or the other instruments you're playing with.
Music is an attitude. Eddie had that philosophy within him. In his music, his attitude is everywhere, and you just proven even in his tuning. F the rules, just play.
I tune my A to 432 and it sounds like magic to me.
When I was a kid , and first started playing I did t know about other tunings. I thought everyone used standard . I would try and learn from Van Halen 1 and was soooo pissed I couldn’t get it right! 😂 little did I know
Amazing. Thanks for posting this. Now it makes sense.
The difference in tuning on the 1st album could it be contributed to the fact that he used his Ibanez destroyer quite heavily on that 1st album this is before he cut it up. He also used his guitar that became the frankenstrat as well. Therefore 2 different guitars 2 different sounds.
Ok....
Were would i be if i didnt know that...
Wow ..
Oh just shut it !.
@David Lacey
Wrong again,
Utuber troll
@David Lacey
It really doesnt matter ! Kinda like you @
blah blah blah @
Oh yeah. I knew it from the beginning. Always had issues with B and G and started just tuning to the song. I still do it to this day and tune as I go.
They didn't have little clip on tuners back then either... it was more of a process then so telling the rest of the band to just tune to you is quicker and easier. Halen wasn't the only band to do that....
This is a great video, not only telling the story but using technology/software to look into the facts. There are other channels I watch that do the same stuff, its a great evolution for youtube. I have one tiny suggestion, your background when you are in the scrubs, you have the xray panels, it would be cool if instead of skull xrays you have things like guitars 'xays' instead or other instruments.
Eddie was prob one of the great improvised players of our time. It seems everything he did he was just making stuff up as he went along. This is one of the things that made Eddie unique. It appears his guitar playing was his personality coming out on notes.
Agreed Manny
He also played patterns across the guitar neck rather than scales, so some notes were not in the key he was playing in. So he was playing a lick in key, out of key, in key and since he was playing fast your ear goes "what happened there?" He was a genius and I miss him.
there is nothing genius at all about that sloppy technique. Every wannabe guitar god in the 80's did it- played pure slop so fast that the ear couldn't tell it was gibberish, just that it was really fast. Yngwie was the genius because he didn't do that shit, he played actual music when he was playing fast.
Man....Runnin' With the Devil never sounds right with anyone else playing it. Even highly accomplished guitarists. And it always bothered me hearing Dance the Night Away. It was so out of tune. The big thing I ask: Templeman was such a professional guy. How.....or.....why did he let Ed get away with odd tunings? This is not a criticism. Huge fan of VH......it's just more of the mystique of EVH. Dude was a true artist. Set-up is own studio in his backyard so he could paint masterpieces.
To answer your question: It's because Ted was also a Vice President at Warner Bros. and he knew his primary responsibility was selling records. He knew his pay was a percentage of the records Van Halen sold and that more sales translated into him getting more money in his own pocket.
The fact is the vast majority of the record buying public are not musicians or guitarists. They don't know what is in tune or out of tune. All that they know is what moves them and inspires them to buy the record.
Ted knew that the high-brow in tune, perfectly intonated, quantized down to the nanosecond, type of music was not what hormonal teenage Van Halen fans were interested in buying. Those kids wanted to listen to music while they got drunk and got laid after the high school football game.
How many "perfect" jazz or blues players do you know? How many of them actually make money? How about American Idol contestants? If you get to the final 50 in that contest you have proven you have enough talent to be a successful recording artist, but hardly any of them have become stars. Why? Because their "perfect" talent and "perfect" record doesn't move people. It doesn't get the unwashed masses to buy the record.
@@griffin6002 I understand everything you are saying, but it's in direct contradiction to the Boston phenomenon.....an album that came out 18 months previous to VH1 and went on to sell 25 million copies and people of all ages couldn't get enough of that album
The orchestration and mixing were so perfect other bands and groups were arranging things to have "the Boston Sound," and that was a standard chased over the next several years. So yeah, Boston established a new expectation that artists and fans expected......which is why VH1 and VH2 are such anomaly.......they were actually going backward in recording concept and production. Live studio recording???? In 1977???? That's 1960's stuff. But Ed has said over many interviews that they went into the studio very nervous and he told Ted that they just want the album to sound like they do live.
He let him get away with it because there's nothing to get away with. Not tuned to A=440 is not "out of tune". It's not even particularly uncommon. Even the stuffiest classical music elitist wouldn't call it out of tune if an orchestra were a quarter step up or down, as long as all the instruments are tuned together.
Kind of. One of them, maybe even Tenpleman himself, said that Dave’s voice juxtaposed with standard tuning just didn’t sound good. Something like that, anyway. Too many massively successful albums have been A440 or down-tuned to say definitively that the public has a preference. The majority of guitar legends in rock that I know of actually down-tuned regularly- live and in studio.
@@gngrblls2thwall exactly!!
What he did and how he did it just added to the unique character of of his sound. We wouldn't want it any other way. Enjoyed this video though. It was very interesting. Thank you. 👍👍🤘🤘
Eddie mentioned in a few interviews that he would tune a “ quarter step “ down primarily for vocal reasons to fit DLR’s vocals . UPDATE : Eddie specifically mentions this in the April 1st 1980 Guitar Player Magazine interview with Jas Obrecht . It’s online . Halfway thru the interview EVH mentions this . You’re welcome 😉
That doesn't make much sense to me. That's such a miniscule, unnoticeable change it wouldn't make much of a difference to DLR vocals..even an entire half step isn't very much if you're having trouble hitting high notes
A half step would make more sense-I mean for vocal purposes, I would think. Hendrix often or typically tuned down half a step, supposedly for vocal purposes.
I Do Remember Mike saying Eddie said It....and I Think He said it in An Interview.... He was being Humble about His Genious and Inventiveness
A quarter step is really not going to make a significant difference in a song's singability. If Eddie said that he was probably just pissed at Dave at the moment so he took that opportunity to cheap shot his range.
@@steveyoung9951 GUITAR PLAYER MAGAZINE interview with Jas Obrecht from 1980 . It’s online . April 1st 1980
My best friend in high school figured this out and it was a game changer for nailing the sound
One of my old guitars used to go out of tune after a few songs due to the tremolo. I used to start the night playing van halen songs and drinking..when I started I used to feel like something wasn't right after a few songs it started to feel like it was right I thought it was just the booze... lol maybe it was both the guitar and the booze 🤣
Just set your tuner to A450 and tune to a half step down. That’ll put you 1/4 step down from standard E 🤷🏻♂️..Van Halen was in between standard & a half step down..
The tuning is not out of tune it’s a quarter step down just like early Dokken, cinderella and quiet riot they all tuned to around 427 ish
432 Hz "if you knew the significance of the numbers 3, 6, 9. Then you would have a key to the universe"
-Dokken
-Cinderella
-Pantera
-Def Leppard
-Quiet Riot
-and yes Van Halen have done this.
I noticed that long time ago, and I loved that! Thanks for sharing Bobby!
Hey Jav. Thanks man!
I more impressed David has to follow that
Good one Bobby! I was NOT ready for the first example though.... I'd only had a little coffee, but suppose I wouldn't ever have been ready for those two guitars (in and out of tune)! LOL
Would love a video on why Bill Ward was robbed of the John Bonham mix and tone. Great player who was screwed in the mix.
Great idea Guillermo
Bonham knew what he wanted and Jimmy (who likely controlled the mix) must have agreed.
Bill had a more typical sound of the era. I agree though, he is underrated because those albums are not well mixed.
I do this with my Floyd equipped guitars. I play a chord, touch up the strings that are out and let it rip. It's usually close enough for rock and roll. It's amazing how well a guitar with a Floyd Rose will stay in tune from one day to the next and to the next as long as you stretch the strings properly before you lock it down. The only time I use a tuner on them is when I change strings. For what it's worth Ed wasn't far enough out of standard tuning to have any meaningful impact on his tone. He just couldn't be bothered to use a tuner. And he was right - as long as the guitar and bass are in tune with one another, who cares?
You tune the guitar to itself because every guitar is slightly different even if they're identically specked out. Tuning to "itself" gives the guitar the best chance to sound great regardless of how it is set-up or even if it is improperly set-up. It's basically making the absolute best of what you have and Eddie is the OG of that.
I agree. There are a few recordings in which I had to adjust strings depending on where the parts were on the neck. Eddie had an amazing ear. Listen to all those vocals harmonies and inversions he used
Eddie is not out of tune; he is just not tuned to concert pitch. However, he would flatten the B string to make it in tune when playing certain chords using the 2nd, 3rd and 4th strings, like the ones in Running With The Devil.
One thing I did not realise is that on some songs he was tuned between E and E#.
@@edwardhumphries5566 Sharp of E (23 cents), not F.
I always like it when rock stars say "F the rules, man. I don't know/use theory. I do what I want". Well, bs. If that were really true, they would sound like a cat walking across a piano or dishes falling off the shelves. ALL musicians at this level know exactly what the F they're doing. It's just better marketing to sound cool and "rock and roll, man" than to talk about intervals. Keith Richards is the same way. Blues musicians, etc. They all know their scales, keys, intervals, etc.
I agree - Just the tapping part on Eruption is technically running through a classical chord progession using triads really really quickly. Tap the G#, pull off to the C#, land on the E. That's a C minor chord right there, tap the A, pull off to the C# and land on the E, an A major chord. Thats the beginning of the progression.
@@GuyNarnarian Someone online wrote the chords used on that run. They're basic chords we all grew up with; I think a few augmenteds in there.
@@jonnuanez2843 Yep, but he knew which notes to rapidly tap and pull off, etc. to play the triads (chord progression) of that part. So he obviously had plenty of musical knowledge and I completely agree with you. You don't stumble on that by accident, at least not as often as he would have had to.
@@GuyNarnarian Sure, he lived with his guitar. Valerie talked about how it was the 3rd person in their bedroom. Remember, too, that he had classical piano training from his dad. He subconsciously knew what sounded right and what didn't. Can't know that and have Eruption sounding like that w/o real knowledge.
9 times out of 10, the people talking about how learning theory limits you never play anything non-diatonic. But Eddie knew theory. He may not have been taught it, but he figured it out and knew on an intellectual level what he was doing.
I dropped my B string a tad to play running With the Devil when I was 13 or so. I was surprised this was a revelation to alot of people later. I thought my guitar was just broken or something at the time :) Over time I learned to slightly bend the B string with my ring finger to compensate if i had to play a tune that needed that adjustment higher up, but also had a D in it. Looking at you, So this Is Love.
It doesnt matter whatsoever if Eddie was "out of tune" or not. He was and will always be the greatest guitar player of all time. Period.
Back when I started playing and before I had a tuner I would tune to Dazed and Confused, the last note was an E that rang out.
For anyone thinking, "Yeah, good question, Eddie!" here's the answer: we tune to a fixed pitch because singers don't have frets in their throat. They have to learn where the notes are by repeatedly practicing fixed muscle positions and shit. Very few singers can easily adjust on the fly to minor changes in tuning. Oh sure, they'll try, and it'll sound okay, but records that sound "okay" rarely make #1 unless you happen to be an Eddie Van Halen, and you probably aren't. Do yourself and your singer a favor, and tune to correct pitch. Your producer will thank you for it.
He wouldn't be adjusting on the fly. They start and end the song in the same tuning, but even hypothetically, any singer worth a tenth of a damn would easily adjust mid-song (after one or two wonky notes before he notices the change) if the other instruments suddenly all together went 20 cents sharp or flat compared to whatever tuning they were at before. But again, this isn't even mid-song. The only potential problem would be if the band is so random that the next time they play it they tune so far off from the original tuning that the song is no longer in the singer's range.
It's so ironic. For those of us who started playing guitar back in the late 70's, we were obsessed with trying to stay in tune to A440. It's just what you did. In the band I was in, me and the other guitar player tuned to a pitch pipe; it was cheaper than a tuning fork and no we didn't smoke weed out of it - just tuned our guitars with it (we smoked weed out of other implements).
Hahahaha!!! Hilarious
Seriously, why would anyone want to be a professional musician these days? There is no money in it. There is no future. Record labels don't even really exist like they used to.
Even back in the 70's it was tough to make a buck. Go read Van Halen producer Ted Templeman's book. That was what the BUSINESS of music was really like. Even Van Halen took multiple hit albums to make money. None of those opportunities exist today. How much are you really going to make with your TH-cam channel?
I see these great 20-something guitar players like Sophie what's-her-name and a thousand other kids that actually went to special high schools to learn everything about music and rock guitar. Why? So you can play in bars for pennies for the rest of your life? How much can your local dive bar pay you? And you want to travel from dive bar to dive bar making nothing forever? You want to be a session guitarist? Again, why? There are a thousand other session guitarists just as good as you out there, there are only so many gigs, and union scale is a pittance.
I can see playing music to make friends or get girls or as a fun job to finance college or just because you love it.... but as a career choice? Even if you are the best guitar player ever, how are you going to support yourself when there is no record industry to speak of now? I doubt the Beatles could make a buck today. Everybody would still say their music is great, and then they would stream it or outright pirate it and Ringo would have to pawn his Grammy statue so he wouldn't starve.
Hey, if you are like Brian May and your band takes off and you quit your PhD studies to go make millions... fine. Ride the Dragon. But at least Brian could always fall back on teaching, at the very least.
True artists will do it for the love of their craft and their own creation. There are many examples of musicians who veered from what the industry was expecting them to do and did it their way and what they wanted, vs using the some industry pattern for a hit song and success. That is why I despise a lot of the big bands that became commercialized only for the purpose of getting their (hits) songs played on the radio for max profit. Ian Anderson once said something to the effect that he didn't give a rats if he was writing hit songs or not. He was going to write stuff that appealed to him and what gave him satisfaction. If it was successful, fine, if not, oh well. And if you listen to a lot of those commercialized bands, it was their first couple of albums that were the best. Once the industry got hold of them and changed them, most everything else wasn't nearly as good. So most true and sincere musical artists don't first set out to make millions. They do it because they love it, and they want to satisfy their desire to create and enjoy their creations. If the public happens to like it, and it makes a few bucks, then it's icing on the cake.
I know a ton of people making good money playing music. Doesn't sound like you know anything about being a professional musician. Do you even play?
Wasn’t to prevent copiers? Like when he told people the wrong info about using a variac? Or when he apparently turned his back to the audience when he first started tapping?
This channel rocks!
Thank you Walter!
Well then, I guess Eddie should give back the 100,000,000 + $. Eddie had a controlled way of tuning and kept that from most people, but Sammy knew and loved it. Pure Genius...
Even Paul McCartney played out of tune on an acoustic guitar on one of his songs called 'Bluebird' near the end. Way out of tune so it was done on purpose, but it also fits the song, sort of. So the out of tune guitar thing has been around on recordings for a long time.
This is exactly what I do..I play to what my ear sounds right to me..never learned to read music..all by ear
I have always detuned my b string depending on what I'm playing. I found out early it was the only way to play some chords and sound in tune.
You have to look at live recordings too,don't forget. It seems to me that the early stuff with Dave the guitar and bass is tuned closer to E flat.Then as Eddie started using the keyboard in stuff,especially the 1984 album,and then with Sammy, it seems that he shifted to E standard.Afterall,once you add the keyboard into the mix,you can't just say "whatever" to tunings in the studio. The early stuff though,you would have had to have been there to know for sure what was used. I agree with the observation about the way Eddie,and others,tweak the tuning of the guitar to be more in tune with itself...it's a guitar player's trick/secret.
Phil X actually broke down the Running with the Devil thing on his FB page. Eddies specifically flattens out the B string
Yes!
440 all day. I just found this channel sounds great doctor I'm in a hospital bed now and while I find medicine extremely interesting having just found this website I look forward to mixing modern medicine with modern music but I'd like to have my keep it acoustic thank you again doctor and Edward hold on to the people from Pasadena Altadena Arcadia Sierra Madre and La Canada is a shout outs enclosing all say this of all the drums at the iPad I really think idw's the next one to go with n e d w lovers out there
@Bobby Huff Who's your guitar player in this video? He deserves some credit too. You guys captured the tone really well.
My father told me about this 37 years ago. He also got the chance to speak with him on his 1984 tour and told him the precise copper wrap times he used on his modified pickups. Pretty neat that I have a strat with them installed.
Amazing!!
the little Korg tuner ….fantastic!
He didn't play it at attune Steve Vai and whistle Zappa said he just played his kind of sound from his ears which was amazing
Fantastic work here, brother!!!👏🎶🎸🔥❤️
The thing I find truly interesting is that he might've been playing truer to pitch and key than he might've with a standard tuning. Back a few hundred years ago, western instruments played each note of the scale in each key so that the steps to each note were a perfect interval apart. This is why very old instruments whose pitch isn't adjustable can only play in certain keys. This is callled 'just intonation'. Then what are called 'equal temperament' instruments were invented. The distances between each note are not all the perfect interval, but an Eb is an Eb. Ed may have heard the imperfection in the equal temperament that we all accept, but which is imperfect.
Just goes to show how intelligent Eddie was when it came to music. Why in the world would you conform to a certain set of rules and limit yourself? I’m always reminded of a friend of mine, when it comes to guitar “rules.” He was an absolute slave to them. I learned to play by just playing and figuring out how I (imagine that “I” in italics, because I don’t know how to do it on my phone) could get the sound I wanted, not by reading the rule that says, “This is how to get this sound,” and my friend would always give me a hard time.
I’ve also always been given hell for doing so much down picking. I can down pick fast as a mother****er. I’m so much better at it than alternate picking, and I have the stamina for it, but people tell me I shouldn’t down pick. I couldn’t care less. My favorite Eddie quote will always be, “To hell with the rules. If it sounds right, it is.”
Just found your channel thanks to TH-cam algorithm. 🤘😁🤘 Instant subscribe.