Duel For The Best Automatic Diver Watch Around $200 (Part 2) - Seiko SKX009 Vs. Orient Black Ray II
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2016
- Today I share one of the most requested duels of all time on the channel. The iconic SKX returns to see if it can maintain its position of the best entry level Automatic dive watch for around $200. Will the newly upgraded successor to one of Orient's best diver watches finally take the crown?
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"Hi guys I'm whispering because it's really early in the morning"
OPERA BLARING IN THE BACKGROUND
LOL ;-)
I know, you may think this is a bit strange but the Opera doesn't wake my wife but I still have to tip toe around,
Great comment,
Best regards,
TGV
I thought he added the music in post-production (while editing the video)
The Urban Gentry Is it easy to turn the bezel on the Orient without gloves on or is it really tight and you need to use your nails?
@@DarylChangs The bezel is quite firm especially when you first buy it but it gets easier to turn over time. I've never had to use my nails on mine.
😄
Interesting to me that between the review of the previous Orient Ray Black edition which lost the pusher he didn't like and gained hand winding and hacking ability it gained 1 point since last comparison. While the Seiko with no changes managed to gain like 5 or 6 points since the previous review.
Yes, that seemed strange to me as well. Has Seiko gotten better by doing nothing?
Agreed. I think TGV just can't bear the thought of his Seiko losing.
Because TGV loves Seiko. The Orient ray II is the better watch, looks even better in s. steel.
I do like the pepsi bezel Mako II.
which ray ii is better looking? the black or blue?
I just bought the Orient. Honestly, three years after the review, I feel like I made the right call. Seiko divers continue to ratchet up in price and I just got my Ray 2 Raven for well under $200, with full international warranty. And purely aesthetically, it's not even close. My black NATO arrives tomorrow.
To me, the Orient is the clear winner in this contest. So I just ordered a plain black/silver one. A lot of extra points were given to the Seiko for quite dubious reasons.
Agreed. These SKX fanboys only think it's the best for subjective reasons. Everyone knows the Orient is the better watch
SKX is better
just bought the black Orient on Massdrop - for what this watch costs today, it's the clear value winner by a longshot, plus I want to wear the watch daily, not add to a collection I don't have, so it's really a different list of parameters that went into my decision. When you drop x-factor, history and weigh performance and quality higher it really beats the classic Seiko. Plus, I want a black watch, which adds modding costs to the Seiko, putting it easily at twice the cost over the black Orient
He even included style and design.. i mean shouldnt it depend on me or something? Overall great review made me buy de orient without a doubt and showed that if you are not an skx fan you should buy the orient
Nah skx by a mile,the orient isn't as well supported in the UK,and it's not ISO rated,it's a desk diver
We all knew coming into this video that no matter how good the Orient was he would somehow make the skx win 😂
Take out x-factor, versatility & brand prestige which in the case of watches $200 tends to be superficial. Because its orient against Seiko(why would Seiko buy Orient?), Orient stands enough ground to negate those three categories. The real score then amounts to 63 for Orient and 60 for Seiko. My opinion of course but really... I love watches and do not want to worry about them, if damaged no problem when these prices make for easy fixing or replacing. Looking for brand prestige??? why did Seiko invest in Orient if they weren't going anywhere??? Ask yourselves please
Couldn't agree more. This "improved" (as acknowledged) version of the Ray suddenly loses out to the SKX by 5 points, rather than drawing with it (as it did last time)?!! If Seiko turned out a turd of a watch model, would that watch still get 3 gift/bonus points for "prestige" ... ?!! Ridiculous ... The ONLY thing the SKX has on the Ray II is the "Diver's" rating ... The Ray II is further disadvantaged here, merely because it happens to be new (Durability). I've never owned either, so I have no emotional investment in this duel ... but based on all the research I've done, and my personal preference re aesthetics, I'd go for the Ray II, in a heartbeat/VPH ... :) A fortiori, if I never actually used my watch for diving ... ...
Kieren Moore well said👍🏼
Is the Orient less durable than the Seiko?Do they have any solid proof to backup the statement?
Anthony P well said👏👏
Love the intros for this series..."pure class" and well-executed! SKX is still #1 on my wishlist, but now I've added the Orient too...you're going to cost and save me a good bit of money, TGV haha
I really appreciate your continuing to make videos. I am sure that many people agree with me. We know it's hard, thank you TGV
In your previous comparison the Orient and Seiko drew with 84 points each. Now with all the improvements and updates the Orient only managed to gain a single solitary point. That doesn't seem fair Yet the Seiko, essentially unchanged, has managed to amass an extra 6 points. Why...how can this be? In the previous comparison the Seiko failed to get the maximum score of 10 in any single category. However in your updated test the Seiko achieved a maximum score of 10 in 4 categories.Thiese significant changes seem strange to me or did you underrate the Seiko first time round and by the same token assess the Orient too highly? Why else could you only award it a lowly extra point even with its upgrade? At this price level, your scoring system shows the Orient winning in the categories that really matter... value, movement, performance, quality and style and is a much better prospect in my view.
Its called bias
I. Can see why I unsubscribed now
@@shaneweightman Shame on you, we all have some bias. Not only is this is an excellent horological, he is an excellent human being. Even if you didn't view his watch videos, his self improvement videos alone are worth the subscription! They'll make you a better man they will, ha ha!
Roland Wicksteed he explains in the video, in his summation, exactly why his opinion about the skx has changed
I agree. If you objectively compare these watches as they are today, then the Orient is an easy winner. Every category that the Seiko wins on is due to its history, brand and X-factor. Seiko is going downhill these days and it is painful for fans to wake up to it, but eventually they will.
i've watched many of your videos and enjoyed them all. Your passion for watches is impressive. I just ordered an SKX007 based on your reviews and my budget.
This was my first sight of the updated Orient Ray and I have to say, I'm liking what I see. Thanks for your objectivity and attention to detail!
well, since they are both so affordable... why not own both in a collection? 😁🙈🤔
As always, very much appreciate the depth and consideration in your videos. Cheers, mate!
That Ray is so eye-catching! Having a 007 and a 1st gen ray, I'm not sure why but the Orient 'feels' better in the hand, it has a solid feel I don't get as much with the SKX. you're are right about the orient brand being for us guys and I selfishly hope that continues! it's a jewel of a brand!
Great video TGV, love the comparos. Of course I have both those watches because I watch your videos and I can't help myself! Truly, love them both. Thanks for all your work.
Great duel/review as always, TGV. And it's wonderful to see you continue to look so happy and healthy. We'll see you on the next one...
Thank you so much :D
Hope you are well too,
Best regards,
TGV
There really is something special about an SKX ... You can tell as soon as you open the box and put it on - it's so well balanced with no major faults (if you can forgive non-hacking), and no gimmicks. Great duel, TGV! I really like the Orient's applied markers and the font on the bezel. Temping to get it, but it wouldn't get wrist time over my SKX009.
Thank you David,
You are spot on, its that x-factor! So right, about wrist time too ;-)
Best regards,
TGV
awesome review !
personally I am interested in buying the black raven and this video made me feel better with that desicion.
I do, however, feel you are a bit too in love with the skx :P
I've had my skx for 15 years and it's got battle scars but it's still going strong. Just ordered a new bezel insert and crystal for it. I have also bought an Orient Black Ray. It's a beautiful watch and also a fitting tribute to my uncle who had an Orient in the 70's and introduced me to automatic watches. Waiting like a kid at Christmas for the Ray.
jjmarz1001 see this is my problem. Which one should I get it. He seems to think the seiko is so better, but I have a thing with the way the face looks. I don't like the minute hand and I don't like the ridiculously large hour markers. But everyone seems to say that the seiko better, a lot of people I've never even heard of orient
Thanks so much for making this video UG! I know we all really appreciate your efforts. All of you vids are so well doe! Thanks to you I am now obsessed with acquiring a Seiko. I just visited my son and he pulled out his SKX that I bought him 14 years ago. I tried it on and it looked perfect on my 7 inch Wrist.
I've gone for the SKX thanks to your previous video. Looking forward to its arrival. I do like the look of this Orient too. Thank you for all that you're doing in making your videos im so happy to keep watching. Keep up the great work. Best hand clicks 👍
Great vid you have inspired me to a few of my purchases, really appreciate your channel. Keep up the great videos!
Thank you so much, very glad to hear, enjoy the new watches! :D
Best regards,
TGV
Excellent video Tristano - really appreciated your disclaimer at the end - our emotional bond with certain watches influences our perception of quality for sure. I've been an SKX guy for years but I have to say - my new Ray II in black is tough to beat. Keep up the great work!
Really nice video! Keep up the good work! I bought my first automatic watch and it was the skx007 because of your videos and im in love with it! Thanks alot, Cheers! :)
so the old orient tied the skx and now with the new movement the orient looses substantially to the skx because it's not as "proven" or "renown". I really prefer my mako to the skx (and that's the older movement orient). ohh and contrary to what you said I think the screw down crown on the orient had a much much better feel.
Content offering I've been waiting (awhile) for . Excellent. Modding watches: a video about this (prices, places, quality) in the near future?
Flawless content, enjoyed every second of this comparison.
Admire your determination and resilience! thank you making these very informative videos.
Great video! Love the Ray but already have a Mako usa. Looking to get the SKX next! Keep up the videos tgv
Been waiting on this one TGV! Excited to see the outcome!
Sorry it took so long, so many videos to make so little time!
Got there in the end.
Thank you Ted,
Best regards,
TGV
+The Urban Gentry Well, it was excellent execution as always, no surprise really that the orient couldn't dethrone the mighty SKX!
Tanks again
Great video! I have to 1st gen Mako. I love the dial, case and I even love the second crown. The SKX, however, is a true diver. Is the Ray ISO certified?
Hey TGV, nice vid. I have been close to buying an SKX on a number of occasions but it just doesn't do it for me aesthetically, so I'm happy to let SKX mania pass me by. Loving the look of the Ray Raven though! Got a Bambino last month so the Ray may end up being Orient No.2.........
I bought the Orient Blue Ray II based on your reviews, and I love it. After beating the hell out my Citizen Eco Drive for 15 years, I was leery of a mechanical automatic, but I love it because if it dies I can manually wind it, rather than putting my watch on the window sill to charge. And I love the blue face and bezel. I think it looks classy as hell, too. A very nice piece, especially for $180 shipped!
great vid as usual !! great editing for the intro !! thumbs up
Thank you Alexandre :D
Best regards,
TGV
I just added the Orient. The lack of manual wind and hacking are a real pebble in my shoe. The Bambino dialed me in originally. I still absolutely love my SKX009J
Great introduction TGV. Enjoyed the comparison.
Thank you Bob! :D
Best regards,
TGV
Really enjoyed this video, thank you!
Sean
So glad to hear,
Thank you,
Best regards,
TGV
Again top review, many thanks!
Have been waiting for this since Federico mentioned it in one of your collab vids!
Thank you Marco, sorry for the delay,
Just with I had more time to make more videos.
Best regards,
TGV
I bought the Orient Ray Raven II for under $250 on Amazon at the end of July. I think I hit the jackpot since mine loses less than a second a day.
I've been very happy with the watch and I'm glad I didn't wait for TGV's comparison before pulling the trigger. Although he rated the SKX higher, he admits that the Orient is the better watch.
Any inputs on the beatablity of these watches? Are they resistant to knocks? Thank you in advance.
At this time my visually favorite Orient Ray II costs 144.99$ According to reviews it have more elegant, dressier and i should say better design, much accurate time, hacking and handwinding options. for me it's very hard to deny all of this just becouse of it is newly introduced, there's no doubt that SKX is a great more iconic watch but it started to look dated, upgrade is required...
I have the Orient Ray II, and here are my thoughts on it.
It's fantastic. I live in Singapore and got my hands on the standard black version at just over SG$200, which goes to about US$150. Have not hacked it to regulate seconds for a month now, it does run fast/slow some days, but every few days I check it, it goes to a net +/-1 seconds. Heard good things about the movement before I got it, didn't realise it was this good. Of course mine is still relatively new and only time will tell if the movement is as reliable say 5 years down the road, but what I'm seeing so far, I'm definitely pleased. The watch seems to hold up pretty well too, I've knocked it around really hard a few times and there's next to no scratching on the watch at all.
The watch is not perfect though, as with most screw down crowns the crown is a little wobbly when its unscrewed, and the lume even though it can be glaringly bright, does tend to fade away rather fast. That said, it's still perfectly readable, just not as bright I'd like it to be (maybe I'm just looking for too much).
Bottom line is if you can snag yourself a good deal (like i have) on these, don't hesitate to get one, it REALLY is quite amazing.
Keep up the good work mate!
Fantastic comparison! Insightful and well thought out, as always. I love my little SKX.
Do you plan on reviewing one of the new Turtles anytime soon? I'm pulling the trigger on a SRP775j in a few weeks. I'd love to know your opinion on the watch. I've been following your channel for quite a while and I'd be glad to send you the watch for review.
Keep up the great work TGV.
All the best,
Grant
enjoyed this video great content TGV.
Thank you so much :D
Best regards,
TGV
Hi TGV, new subscriber!!! Never owned a wristwatch. Because of your channel, I started collecting last month. I purchased 3 watches in August and 2 in Sept. In order of purchase 1. Seiko SARB033 2. Orient Star Classic Blue Hands 3. Hamilton Intra-Matic Black 4. Seiko SKX009J1 and 5. Squale 50 ATMOS Blue 1521. Thanks for the great videos...very passionate, helpful and informative.
Welcome aboard! WOW, love your selection!!! Well of course I would right? ;-)
So glad to hear and enjoy the watches, thank you so much.
Best regards,
TGV
TGV, great video. Just bought my SKX j version.
Gotta ask, why you left the sticker on the back of the skx ?
Fantastic video TGV! Get some rest, we don't want you stressed out. (:
Hello! Where can i buy a metal strap like the one on your Seiko SKX009? Thank you!
this is not subjective, we all know that TGV loves Seiko, EG. at the movement rating Seiko did not deserve 8 becase its movement is not modern enough
Have a 1st Gen Blue Ray and a 007. I loved the Blue Ray when I got it, but when the SKX came around town, it just stole my heart :)
Also, even though my SKX gets all of my wrist time (i took mine everywhere), ironically, the Ray got a huge gash on its mineral crystal from casual use while the hardlex is still crystal clear :)
Great video as usual!
i just reacquired an Skx. thanks to u TGV. funny thing is the limited quantity of Orient Divers in the location where I'm from w/c is near Japan. anyway, love your videos. keep it rolling. regards from a fan in SEA
great review, I think the skx007 vs the srp777 would be a great duel!
I've been so torn between the skx007 / skx173 and one of the Steinhart ocean series watches... What kept me away from the skx was the inability to manually wind it, but seeing you wind it with the wrist kind of convinced me to bite the bullet, I can definitely deal with "skx shuffle", didn't realize it's a viable way to wind it.
In my mind, the Orient is infinitely more versatile. You can take it on vacation, wear it at the beach all day, then switch to a suit and tie and wear the same watch to dinner and it looks just as appropriate. (Maybe less so for the PVD version but definitely for the SS version.) The SKX looks cool in its own way but it's purely a tool watch, and IMO it looks pretty silly if you try to wear it with formal wear. In my mind, this makes the Orient the clear winner BY FAR. I have an original blue Ray that I've worn on trips to at least 7 different countries and I've never felt that it looked out-of-place.
Great watches, great video, and the best advice, get both watches!! :) one question, does this orient change date at 12 o'clock or changes out of phase like older orients? Cheers TGV!! :)
What's the strap on the skx? Where can I buy one from ?
Thanks!
That's the music intro I was waiting for! Epic
Thank you :D
Best regards,
TGV
Just received my Orient Ray II, bought new from Amazon. The bezel does have some play when pushed with light force, where you can wiggle it by pushing down at the 6 and 12 oclock position. Not sure if I got a bad copy?
the orients look and better movement and that it looks less toyish and cheap defintely would have gotten my vote, but nice vid nonetheless!
which ray ii is better looking? the black or blue?
No the ray is ugly
Great comparison video. I opted for the Mako II (which I received last week) and love it. The biggest difference I appreciate, over my SKX, is the manual wind, but I actually prefer the bezel 'click action' of the SKX over the Orient. Still love both...in their own special ways.
I have both watches, I rate the ray over the Skx personally, it's performance is better than the skx and the style is more refined.
I have the Orient Mako Usa, and a Seiko Prospex (Quartz) diver chronograph with a batman dial ( SSC017). The bezel on the Seiko is very spongy, doesn't line up 100%, rocks a little and doesn't have the definite, hard click of the Mako. That Mako bezel is tight, solid and clicks exactly into place with zero play. And the Orient was a cheaper watch.
Great video as always TGV. I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on a SKX007 but I'm afraid my wrists are too small. They are 6.6 inches in circumference, do you think it could work?
Thats bigger then me so you should be fine, you could always go midsize and go for the SKX013?
Sure it will be fine, enjoy!
Best regards,
TGV
Great, yeah I was considering that one but as I'm still in my teens and still growing my wrists will get slightly bigger. This will be my first mechanical watch!
Awesome video, both are excellent pieces. TGV, this could lead entry level collecting! oh no !
Thank you my friend, this is the best way into it without a doubt.
Best regards,
TGV
Ciao Tristano! they both are in the wish list of mine :-) Orient first (just because it's a new model and because I really love that black PVD!!), then the SKX009. Unfortunately, they would costs to me around € 300 each, due to import duties at the Italian Customs :-(((
Anyway...thanks for the comparision. Every time I watch your vids, I would buy a watch!! Ciao! Diego
24:00. "It may be the better watch"...but it scores lower lol. So basically buy the seiko if you care about name and what other people think. If you want the better watch, get the orient.
Not trying to bust balls, good vid as always, just doesn't make a ton of sense to me🤔
I really wish Orient made a smaller diver. Something like the SKX013. Man it's hard having a small wrist!
YESSSS!!! Me too, I would love a 36 or 37mm version too.
Thank you, great point.
Best regards,
TGV
I was always worried about sizes of wrist watch. However, I own two 38mm watches and the rest are 42mm!! If you enjoy, wear it.
Lol I had spaghetti wrists too until i started lifting. Big watches fit me now. I think puberty also had a huge role in that because 2 years ago I was only 15 XD
Hi TGV, nice video. I own a 007 because of your channel, and love it. All the best mate. Paul
So glad to hear, keep enjoy it,
Thank you Paul
Best regards,
TGV
Another great one TGV! Will always love my SKX! Currently have it on the blue camo nato from WCWC and it looks great!
NICE ONE!!!! so glad to hear, thank you DG!
Best regards,
TGV
The intro is so epic. The duel videos are always very exciting. I am not so into Diver Watches, but the video was very interesting. Best regards:) ( I wrote you a Email about your Germany Trip :) )
Thank you Tim, I will be sure to reply to you as soon as I can. Would you mind re-sending it. Sometimes emails get lost in the pile, I get 100s every day. I will be sure to reply.
Best regards,
TGV
The Urban Gentry
No problem. I will re-send the E-mail. Best regards:)
Are you going to do a review on the new Orient Divers? Live your show!
I couldn't decide between them so I got both. Went with the Blue Ray II though, much more versatile than the black case.
Brilliant video as always. Plenty to think about for the next time I want to expand the collection...though I wanted to ask on that point, do you think you can have too many divers in a collection? They just seem to dominate the 'iconic watch' category with the Submariner, Sea Master, SKX, then you've got the Aquis jumping in and the Christopher Ward Trident range, there's just so many great divers, you don't even need to mention the brand name and fellow watch enthusiasts know what you're on about. Any thoughts on that?
I have the Blue Ray II and the SKX175. I think the Orient is the better of the two. Both nice watches. Love the channel.
Excellent duel TGV! I Really enjoyed it :) btw, what happened with then custom made urban gentry watch, not the SKX one? Keep the good work! Cheers!!!!
Thank you! I actually did a video on it a while ago, mentioned it briefly here, but basically, due to the rising cost of the SKX itself and the complexity of what I want to do, the costs of the modding were huge, so sadly I had to cancel it. However, next year I will be working on my own UG watch from scratch in collaboration with another company. As always, it's just a matter of time and money, I will get there my friend ;-)
Best regards,
TGV
thanks for replying and sorry if i got you a bit confused with my comment... i already knew about the SKX... what i wanted to know was about the UG watch, but know that i know i cant wait for it!!! keep the good work! cheers!!!
I'm a Great Lakes Ship Wreck Diver. I worn the SKX exactly like yours 12 years straight as my backup decompression timer. That's 12 years of perfectly acceptable service out of a 200 dollar piece.
WOW, thats is the coolest thing I have heard all day, your youtube pic makes sense now ;-)
My biggest sadness in life is I will never be able to dive again because of my lungs, so enjoy it for me my friend!
Best regards,
TGV
Thanks for the help, they seem to be out of stock everywhere.
Almost the video I was wating for :( Wanted SKX versus Orient Mako II USA
What does the USA II add? Drilled lugs and flat sapphire?
Sapphire is a big one for me.
Orient is excellent brand
I love the strap on the seiko. Is that factory? If not where did you find it? Thanks!
Any idea how to fix it? Or link to any videos explaining how to?
Another great vid TGV. Your vids convince me to pull the trigger on the SKX and received it yesterday. BTW I love the bracelet on your SKX where did you get it?
Thank you Stephane, so glad to hear, congrats!
The mesh was a real cheapo from china via eBay, nothing fancy but at the end of the day it does the job and looks good.
Best regards,
TGV
Orient takes it ! Skx will always be respected
I'll pick the Orient for its novelty. The SKX is so ubiquitous. I see it everywhere. Great informative vid.
Great video. I would possibly chose the Orient, but that's probably to do with availability.Are Seiko planning to replace the SKX007/009 with another model, now it's been discontinued?
What is the name of that strap? Thank you for the video TGV!
had an orient black mako gave it to my brother, got an skx013. Love both watches. the smaller size is what did the skx for me.
Does anyone know where I can find an Orient Black Ray II online? Really keen to purchase one, Long Island watches no longer have them in stock...
Thanks in advance
Your annual batter replacement budget must be HUGE!
skx007 or the pepsi 009; I'm just so torn! I'm inches away from pulling the trigger but this dilemma's stopped me for weeks :(
I'm having the exact same conundrum! I feel a black one would be more versatile, but the pepsi just has that wow factor
So what did you buy?
Black orient, Pepsi seiko.
Blue Mako USA 2 / 007 w/lumed ceramic bezel
Please someone help me :) Is the stuhrling depthmaster 883 with the swiss automatic movement any good ??? How does it compare with something like the SKX 009 ??? Thanks
Can you tell me where to get Pepsi bezzel for vostok 090 amphibian. Should I get a insert vessel or regular bezel? Thank you, love your show.
My 007 is on the way from Amazon and damn it this video making me want to get a Ray Raven II
I’ve had a Ray II (Beautiful blue face one stainless bracelet) And my SKX Pepsi On the shark mesh, for about a year… You can’t go wrong either way with these… I love them both… Reliable accurate and hard to decide which one to wear… The Ray II A little more dressy… Unlike the black PVD one reviewed here. I hope to purchase the PVD version soon… Only reason I don’t own it as I’m having trouble justifying adding a 15th dive watch😂😂😂
Fantastic video TGV, I love my skx! Do you think the japanese version of the skx will hold value better than the k version?
Thank you Alex, very good question, I hate to say it, but I think they will. They are trickier to get a hold of and often are priced higher. Not much difference at the end of the day to the K, as you may of seen from my comparison video, very minor details. Somehow the desire for the J persists,
Best regards,
TGV
I have to disagree with you on this one TGV. I own a orient Ray 2 and i have to say it's my every day beater . Watch at the end of day needs to be reasonably accurate and the ray performs way better than the skx, also it comes with hacking which the skx doesn't . The Ray looks way more appealing and smarter than the skx and diving with it is no problem what so ever. For me it ticks most boxes for an affordable alternative to the high end watches. I'm loving this watch. probably the best bang for your buck out there .
Love it, i want a full black watch however i cant decide between this Raven 2 and the phoibos reef Master PY015B, which one would you recommend more?
I don't know why, but the skx just doesn't do anything for me. It is probably the blocky markers on the dial, but it make me smile to see you and others enjoy it Tristano.