Orient Ray II - The Seiko SKX007 Killer?
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The Orient Ray II is most likely the closest competitor to the beloved Seiko SKX007 and SKX009. The Orient Ray II out shines the Seiko SKX007 in many ways and for some, it could be the Seiko SKX Killer.
Orient Ray II on Amazon:
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Seiko SKX007 on Amazon:
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The great advantage that the Orient RAY II watch has over many dive watches,
is its appearance that the watch can be worn both on a daily basis and in a business meeting in formal attire.
agree
The Orient looks more dressy, SKX looks more sporty. Both are beautiful pieces, I have a Snzh55 (Seiko5 sport 100m water resistant), it's got the looks between of them, I 😍 love it when people asked me if it is a sea master. The accuracy of it was -15sec a day, I consider it as a fun gadget more than a daily beater watch, my daily watch is a Seiko dress quartz watch with 100m water resistant ,accurate as +3sec /per month that can beat most of high end mechanical watches.
Bought the Orient Ray II for my birthday on 1 July 2021, exactly 4 years after your video post! Was looking for a replacement for my 18-year-old Citizen Promaster Ecodrive, still going strong but the bracelet broke and Citizen said they can't fix/replace it. Could have got an aftermarket strap for the Citizen, but I'm still waiting for it to be returned! (Lockdown hasn't helped)
Citizen seems to only have Promasters with large faces, not suitable for my 6.75" wrist, so after extensive research (thanks so much all you TH-cam posters), I decided on the Orient Ray II, couldn't be happier! Great price, beautiful watch, and despite a few less than favourable reviews re watch band, crown and bezel, I found that the band is not "cheap" looking/feeling, but is in fact pretty good quality. Not a Rolex of course, but more than suitable for the price point. Similarly the bezel and crown are solid and easier to operate than what some reviewers/commenters have experienced. Highly recommended! 🇦🇺😍
Citizen promaster ny0040 42 mm, wears like a 40 mm for 200$
Just recieved the ray 2 and I couldn't be happier. So much bang for your buck here folks.
Congrats on the new Ray, it’s a nice watch for sure.
I'm getting mine this weekend but mine is the blue dial blue bezel version I'm excited to get it 😎
also are the center links or side links solid or hollow 😎
Couldn't agree more.
Citizen promaster ny0040 is very nice as well
I have both SKX007 and the Orient Ray 2 Blue version and this is exactly what I think! Orient is the "better" watch but i still love the SKX a little more...
The Orient Ray 2 is more of a "desk diver" watch, sure you can still go swimming or diving with it without issues but I think its more designed for an everyday watch for the work place.
The SKX is more of a real diver "tool watch" which is slightly more functional. And here's why for the following reasons:
1. The bezel action, the Orient Ray 2 bezel is way too hard to turn and i struggle to turn it without giving it quite a force. On the SKX its more smoother and easier yet not too easy that you'd accidentally turn a few mins off.
2. Thicker lugs, I'd feel safer with the SKX with lugs that are about 2 times thicker than the Orient Ray 2 lugs under sea water or doing physical activity as the thicker lugs gives me that added assurance of security.
3. Crown, I do prefer the traditional 3 o'clock position for crowns on a watch but the SKX crown is nice and thick which is slightly easier to grip with my fingers where as the Ray 2 is a bit too small for a true dive watch. Also, the crown at the 4 o'clock position slightly does benefit from the crown not digging into the back of your hand while you move your wrist around (that's if you wear the watch closer to your wrist). Just the idea alone gives it more of a "tool watch" appeal.
4. Both have great lumes, brightness and longevity are pretty much the same. However, on the seconds hand, the SKX's lollipop lume is slightly more visible in the dark. Say 20 mins into your dive you're deep deep down in the sea and the lumes losing it's brightness the SKX's lume on the seconds hand is much more visible telling you "yes i'm still alive down here".
5. SKX is an ISO certified diver watch where the Orient Ray 2 is not.
Regardless, both are great watches for the price.
Peter Rim Well said!
Actually, this is the first well written reply to why the skx has some things over the Orient. Made me think. I only Orient and am really happy with it on a black quick-release rubber bracelet from Barton but... I still want an skx for some reason. Just way too many people out there who love that watch so..
I count 1reason and 4 loosely based opinions. Not knocking you, just since i read your whole list, i get the first as a reason for you, buuuut (lol). The bezel for my two rays has not been an issue for me though i do see the added resistance. 2, have you ever broken a steel lug? Especially swimming or diving? I dont see any added assurances or security. 3, the rays crown, its smaller so it shudnt be much of an issue digging into wrist? Never had an issue myself. 4, lumed lollipop, i love lume!, wat is the seconds hand telling you your stil alive? Sounds like food poisoning. Have you or most people ever been deep deep down in the sea where the seconds hand lume was a concern? I cant say that was a factor in any watch ive purchased. 5, yes skx is iso certified, but lets not forget seiko owns orient and shares the majority of business acumen, so if they both say 200m on the dial and I'm not diving past or anywhere near 50-100m down then how is that of any relevance? So in the end it seems they are quite the same watch all around, besides minor aesthetics. Kinda wish i bought an skx b4 price went past 200 i was going to buy wen they were 180 but so many entry level fanboys deterred me, i should have just bought it and sold it if i didnt really like it, lesson learned, the whale that got away...🤦♂️
@@SrJonAnthony so you prefer the orient right?
@@relosapulso maybe, I just didnt count any more than one reason and the orient negatives werent real issues but more unsubstantiated feelings. But they are both cool watches in their respective price ranges!
SKX is a mass produced lemon with no hacking or hand winding.Many watches blow it out of the water but many ppl will pay a premium to have the most common and under spec'd watch in this class,Hats off to Seiko
Sometimes it's about more than the specs. There are a lot of watches that offer more than the SKX, just like there are a lot of cars that offer more than a 1969 Camaro Z28, but I'd love to have that car.
You asked the question and that's my honest opinion .Its not comparable to a 69 camero ,It was made yesteday in Hong Kong and there are millions of them .As I say hats off to Seiko because they own Orient and make most of the watches in the world today but some ppl still think its a brand to pay extra for .
You are right there. Since Orient is owned by Seiko Group, Seiko makes money no matter which watch you choose as GM doesn't care which model in their car line up you buy as long as you buy from their company. They are made to appeal to different customer tastes.@@True-os6tg
I've watched some of your reviews and appreciate the straightforward format, great camerawork, and clear and to the point delivery, with no fluff, forced snobbery, or distractions that are usually associated with a teenager's bedroom, as found in some other channels. Thanks for a great review!
Thanks MG-70 I appreciate the feedback and you watching.
My son bought a Seiko SKX two weeks ago, I admired it and told him of the Diver watch I had when I went into the Air Force in 69, it was stolen when I was in Nam. I starting looking at Seiko and Orient, Casio and Invicta Divers. After looking at many reviews came to the conclusion I really
Liked the Orient Ray 2 which my son gave me as a surprise gift. Now after holding and wearing both, I prefer the Orient. We both replaced the metal bands with either Silicone or NATO bands, which were better on the wrist. All of the reasons you stated in your review are why I like the Orient, it does have an air of the different high end Divers and that's what I think makes it look better than the Seiko and hacking for us sticklers
Is a plus. Nice review and keep them coming.
Thanks for watching and the comments. Sorry to hear you lost your Seiko in the military that would probably be a cool piece to still have. But you can't go wrong with the Ray II, I hope you enjoy it.
Chris Walls - Great of your son to get you that watch! That alone makes it special.
Take the invicta out of that search list
The SKX is the better "diver", but the Ray/Mako II is the better watch. 50-60 dollars less, better QC (the Seiko history of bezel alignment is unacceptable at ANY price point), and most importantly, a better movement.
Thanks for watching Mark.
Thank you JustBlueFish for the great content.
I do not know why the SKX007 is so dramatically hyped. It has a quite plump dial, no Frame on the day date window, the irritating lume on the OPPOSITE side of the second Hand (i mean wtf) and last but most painful: a non hacking non windable movement!
Even cheap chinese Steel Bagelsports for 50$ have screw down crown, hacking handwinding etc.
Orient Ray 2 kills the SKX without the slightest effort.
The SKX and the case design in particular is a more unique design. The aesthetics appeal to a lot of people more than the somewhat generic appearance of the Orient. On paper however, the the Ray is certainly a better watch.
Actually the lume on the opposite side of the second hand it's not so "wtf", because when you're diving and look at the lumed dial you only need to know that the watch is working. So you don't need the exact second, you just have to be sure that it's running looking at the lumed circle moving. Just think about other diver watches, they usually have the lume dot near the end of the seconds hand (like the well known Submariner)…. But this is still not so practical for knowing the exact seconds. In fact you simply don't have to. And aesthetically the circle on the opposite site offers a visual counterbalance to the longest of the hands. So i don't find it so horrible and I think it's just more unique. In my opinion the SKX style is retro, masculine, I'd say "adventurous"... The Orient is boring.
But nothing to say about the hype and the overprice.
AFCA - World Bodybuilding Archive the no frame and reverse pip is simply a subjective issue but the shitty folded bracelet and ancient movement should be considered embarrassing by Seiko regardless of the price point
My take? I very rarely hand wind any of my watches, it's easy to shake them so I have never seen the issue same goes for the inability to hack, what's the point? Sync any two mechanical watches and they will be out of sync within an hour. The charm of the SKX is that it is original it looks like nothing else. That's rare nowadays.
Marc lang It’s fucking everywhere nowadays mate XD
I had the Orient Ray 2 as my everyday watch for two years. I loved the sunburst dial, the classic look, and solid movement. My watch ran around +2 sec/day. One week ago I got the SKX175. Today I sold my Orient Ray 2. I just knew the Orient Ray 2 would never see any time on my wrist again. The Orient Ray 2 is objectively a better watch. But the SKX is far better designed. From the interesting contours of the case, the visually striking dial, to the smooth as butter bezel (which I actually use a lot to time various things), the SKX is just a pleasure to wear.
After two years with the Orient Ray 2 I realized that accuracy doesn't matter that much to me (although my new SKX is running around -2 sec/day right now). I don't need hacking. I don't need hand winding (especially on an everyday watch). None of those specs makes up for a boring design. I was bored with my Orient. I considered modding it. I bought an SKX175 (at a surprisingly reasonable price) instead. The rest is history.
Random Uploader the Orient Ray 2 is a fine watch. The date frame and applied markers are a very nice touch. The red accented seconds hand is wonderful. In all fairness though no one is counting seconds when all they can see is lume so the backwards lollipop works fine for me. I actually prefer the seconds hand on the SKX because it is thinner, longer, and points to the second indices better, which is far more satisfying for me than lume placement. I love the jubilee bracelet on the SKX. It is lighter, has a vintage feel, and works just fine. I liked the bracelet on the Ray 2 as well. Let’s be honest at this price point we aren’t buying either watch for the bracelet. The SKX markers are painted but they don’t look cheap. They look functional, what you would expect on a tool watch. I love that they are larger, more visible, better proportioned. What initially attracted me to the Ray 2 was versatility. I thought it looked more classy. Over time it just became boring, too vanilla. The SKX is striking. The case is way more interesting. The dial is iconic. The bezel is a million times better. The crown isn’t tiny. It looks way better on just about every strap (I still have all the 22m straps from my Ray 2). If I still had the Ray 2 I honestly would never wear it. The Ray 2 really is better on paper. For me, the SKX is better on wrist.
I’ve been a Seiko and Citizen buyer for a long time, but these Orients really impress me. Last year I bought a Turtle and a Tuna. Had I seen this Orient or a similar Orient, I would have bought one. Wasn’t too familiar with Orients until recently. Great brand for the money. Thanks Guy for this very good comparison.
Used to own both and I felt that the Orient is the better watch overall. If I had to redo it I would get the Ray again. But if we're talking Prospex divers and above then it's a different story.
The Ray is really nice for the price you can't really go wrong with it. Same can be said about the SKX, tough to pick a favorite but for me the Seiko wins slightly.
I have both these watches..I disagree with your comparisons..the Orient is a much better watch for the money..I'd say the Orient is a grown-ups watch where as the Seiko skx is for a juvenile..it's not until you get them on the Timegrapher do you realise the accuracy of the Orient..i'm getting on mine +3 and +5, it's a much better movement than the 7S26..I have 2 of these Orients and over 10 Seiko's,the Orients are both more accurate than any of the Seiko movements i have straight out of the box..7S26,4R36,4R35,6R15..overall I'd say the Orients are much better watches..people will find this out with time..I'll be buying more Orients with this movement F6922 and won't be buying many more Seiko's from now on..the only thing wrong with the Orient is the crown is a bit too small,the lume on both is great..i prefer the tighter bezel on the orient..it does wear in..and it just looks better..the SKX is dated and looks childish to me now....everything else is spot on for the money..best value automatic dive watch out there...yes it is an SKX killer..
Thanks for watching and sharing your opinion. The Ray is a nice watch for sure. I think I'm just a bigger Seiko fan.
I like Orient better too and to make the bezel turn easier I take out the o-ring inside. After you take that out it's smooth as butter. Really don't need it anyway.
Josh Smitty how do you do that?
I totally agree with you. I had the SKX back in high school.
Mark Bushcraft Richards in the battle of these style of watches the Invicta wins to me ,, better value for money 💰 cheers Shane uk 🇬🇧
Don't get the whole SKX ""je ne sais quoi" thing I'm afraid. The Orient is a better looking watch with a better movement. It's also more versatile and has a better bracelet than the SKX. And it slips under a long-sleeved shirt or jumper better. Oh, and divers use dive computers these days, not mechanical clockwork, so the certification thing is pretty irrelevant.
I am always surprised when people quote the ISO certification as a major plus for the Seiko but have never gotten the watch in the ocean and never will. Similarly, Lume... is it really that important? I’d argue no it’s not. For me it would be irrelevant if any Watch was lumed.
I find the Orient looks cheap. The design to me just looks like they didn't want to be a submariner so they made a bunch of minor detail changes which are to the watch's overall detriment. To me the SKX looks much more visually refined
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews I know this is a late comment but here's my view on lume anyway: I don't dive, however lume is essential for me due to my job. During night piquets and patrols I need a watch to know the time, and can't use a phone due to the brightness. High quality Lume lasts all night and is sufficient, so a watch with lume is a necessity. I also don't like the idea of needing good lighting to make a watch functional, lume solves that issue completely
what you said,exactly.
Masterpsflood Totally agree. Orient looks like a submariner wannabe, while the SKX is well...just the SKX itself.
Basically I heard the Orient is better, but you like Seiko. ok
Thanks for watching.
@George White I guess you are only look from their design, if you understand their movement as well and you love to collect them, you'll know. And also SKX price was surging because of Seiko not producing them anymore and it's iconic diver watch. I'm not a SKX true fan but to be honest this watch really rocks but orient ray 2 movement and winding were better. I have 1 ray 2 and 1 SKX
@George White The Orient Ray 2 is a great watch. But no one is going to miss it when it gets discontinued. There are just too many alternatives out there. There is no alternative to the SKX. The watch is so iconic that there are homage watches of the SKX. There will never be an homage of the Orient Ray 2.
@@revdavelee with the 5kx being a thing now your comment no longer holds any merit. for 190 you can grab a 5kx which is far superior than the skx unless you actually plan on going diving and seeing as the majority of people who buy diver style watches are desk divers then the 5KX really just made the SKX obsolete.
Skx is ISO certified so that beats Orient right there. Orient is also only mineral glass...
Just got the Orient Ray 2 and I love it. Really comfortable on the wrist and over 24 hours has only dropped 2 seconds.
Plan to get an SKX 007 too at some point, think the seiko looks better on a nato.
No harm in having both!
The last 3 SKXs I had all lost 4 minutes a week. My next watch will an Orient Ray2 blue.
Yeah I’ve seen several Seiko watches with this 7s26 movement have bad timekeeping. I’m not much of a fan of that movement anymore.
After a lot of research finally
When I bought the Orient I thought I'll miss my decisions to buy a Seiko.
My dad owns a Seiko skx007.
However with the daily usesage of Orient I completely fell in love with the mako 2 which I bought.
With the upgrades f69 movement with hand winding. Capabilities makes a life a lot easier.
And with the accuracy of +-10 sec a day.
U can't complain as after all it's a mechanical watch.
Looks more premium than what I actually paid for.
The heart of any watch is in the movement and this is whr the Orient beats seiko.
Believe me that looks won't disappoint u.
My personal pic is a blue version of a mako over a classy subdued black.
Seiko is an iconic watch but hasn't upgraded it's movement since last 3 decades..
D
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts and experience. I appreciate it.
The packaging of the Ray is neat... Until you see at 3:40 right on the cover of the manual that a typo slipped thru - "MECHANCAL (sic!) WATCH". Gotta say I'm having second thoughts about the Orient quality control.
Are you a typesetter or editor for a living? I wouldn't have noticed that. Good catch.
I've bought my first Orient dive watch 18 years ago. It cost me around $60 I remember - was an impulse buy I guess. I wore it quite a bit over the years when the work/circumstances asked for a simple more rugged watch and it was always very good to me, reliable and surprisingly accurate. I had it serviced three times and the most recent one did not work out that well: now it goes fast as soon as it gets fully charged. They did not clean the main spring properly as I understand. Unfortunately it became obvious only months after the cleaning was done - too late to talk to the service. So I decided to retire it and got myself a blue Ray 2 now as it reminds me of my old Orient diver: that's what I call emotionally invested.
Thanks for watching. I appreciate it. Thanks for sharing your story with Orient.
hows the orient ray 2 so far?
I sometimes like to stare at the box. It's just very well-designed.
For an inexpensive watch they did a good job on the box.
I own both watches and like each equally in their own particular way. I use the SKX as an every day watch and the orient to meetings or out to dinner as it a is significant step up in my opinion as far as dial and bezel appearance. To own both you absolutely cannot go wrong.
Agreed both are excellent.
i installed a double dome sapphire in the ray 2 and i have to say it transforms the watch ... cheap upgrade if you do it yourself which is so easy to do
MarcraM82 and now it's no longer water resistant. Good job
@@Ferien7 incorrect there buddy. Had it pressure tested at my local watchmaker and it's good for 20bar.
I have both and really like both for different reasons. Both are very durable and reasonable accurate. I feel fortunate to have both in my small collection.
i own both the ray II and the SKX and find the ray II beats the SKX in just about every department. my SKX remains in the box most of the time (wish i hadn't bothered buying it) and my ray is my go to watch.
12/16/17 I feel like a judge in a beauty pageant. I've been mulling this over for a while and have come to a purchasing decision. I don't have the X factor bonding me to the SKX. I considered the smaller SKX013 for a while; It looks just a hair too small to me, and I know I would always be thinking about that whenever I looked at it. I'm going to go with the Orient. I already have a couple more tool type Seiko diver watches. I like that the Orient is a bit dressier, and the the wind and hack is more convenient. Congratulations Miss Orient! (Music plays. Crowd gasps and applauds. Orient jumps up and down excitedly.)
If the SKX doesn't sing to you on some level I think the Ray II is the better choice for all the reasons you mentioned. Let me know what you think when you get her. Thanks ~Guy
It has arrived! There are a couple negatives. My Orient Bambino II coat-of-arms is little masterpiece of detail on the dial. However, the Ray II coat-of-arms is not identical and it doesn't captivate me as it does on the Bambino. That beautiful red center no longer draws my eye to it. Second, the paint finish on the bezel is too matted; a higher gloss would have taken it a step up. Third, as I hold the watch next to a Casio Dura, the hands appear slightly better than the cookie cutter hands of the fifty dollar Casio, but in my opinion, they are nowhere near the quality look of the Bambino. On that point, I might be just seeing the different style of the hands, and effect of the Bambino's domed crystal. A couple pleasant surprises: 1) that nice gritty sound of turning the crown (yes, I like that sound) is a bit deeper and richer than the Bambino, That's probably because of the heavier case. 2) I love the weight and feel of it. 3) Best of all, somehow the watch almost seems to change size depending on the angle of the view. That really fascinates me. So in the end, I'm happy with it. Appreciate you helping point me in this direction.
Couldn't agree more. I own both the Orient Ray II and the Seiko SKX173. I used to also own an Orient Ray I, but sold it (for a profit actually) after acquiring the Ray II.
I must pick up the Ray II and the SKX173 two or more times a week and try to decide which one I like better. I like the look of the SKX more, especially with the square markers, but the Ray is way easier to wear and can easily be dressed up, whereas the SKX is more of a tool watch that is hard to pull off with slacks and a long sleeve button down.
My only dislikes about the Ray are the logo, the shitty lume, and the small crown. Otherwise a fantastic watch. Probably the most worn watch in my collection. Looks great on a brown leather band.
Thanks for watching and commenting Nick.
I admire the reputation of the skx and thought how people could compliment me once I wear one. But my heart tells me I want that nice orient ray. I admire the orient ray for what it is and it pleases me which is what matters more than pleasing people who wont care whatever watch you wear anyways.
Both are good choices. Pick whichever one connects with you most.
OK but I will be getting the skx007 first✔️😂💜
It was a pleasure for me to watch your review video . I've got in my collection a few expensive watches, but the most inexpensive are my 3 Seiko's and 2 Orient watches . And funny things they are my favorite ones for everyday use for unbelievably low price with the extreme high build quality . All my Seiko and Orient watches have perfectly align date and day windows . I must advice you all guys, please adjust date and day on your watches when the time on your watch is between 3 pm and 9 pm only ! Best is to adjust at 6 o'clock .
Thanks for watching, I appreciate it it. Seiko and Orient do make quality watches for great prices. I have an Orient Polaris GMT that a viewer has loaned me that will be reviewed in the near future, so if you're not subscribed please do, and keep any eye out for that.
Ryan Ray don't you mean avoiding those times? I heard you can adjust at any time other than the ones you mentioned 😂?
In some watches it really doesn't matter at what time is on your watch to adjust the day and date . But to be sure, always adjust your watch day and date best , when the time is on your watch in between 3 to 9 , best around 6 . And it is not important am or pm .
I think the SKX is a better diver. Aside from the certification, the bezel is easier to read. Also the Ray 2 bezel is hard to turn. I like the Ray 2 better as an all purpose watch. I have the blue version and I wear it to work every day. For me it is a handsome beater.
Very true on all points, thanks for watching and commenting.
JustBlueFish . i have both watches. personally i think all things being said technically. i just feel that seiko has that "CHARM or CHARISMA".
In my opinion, the Orient looks way better than the Seiko.
Handsome beater.. That might be the best 2 word description of the mako/ray I've ever read. Exactly what I use 'em for.
The Seiko is a better watch and will keep its value better. The Seiko looks like a TV with 1080p the Orient looks like 720p. The arrow on the seconds hand looks like it is made for a mentally challenged person. The winding the watch is why it will have more problems and not last like the Seiko.
So the orient took the best lil details from rolex and omega details then put the best things from wacths people love and put them all together in one wacth.. to make the perfect wacth.. sounds good to me. Glad i got the ray raven 2... best diver wacth for the price hands down
I'd say hacking should be standard and no bonus option. On a watch that you have to adjust daily it's a must have.
Yeah I kind of agree.
I like when people judge diver's watch on being "real tool". I don't know anyone who get far enough to get any technical diving certification who relies on a cheap mechanical watch for decompression. Everyone I know has at least a computer. Cave divers always repeat the mantra "redundancy" and probably go with at least two different specific tools plus a watch, maybe a G shock to get scratched on the rocks. These watches are more like a sentence: "I am cool and I like diving but I actually like to spend more money in the sport than on a watch so I saved myself the Rolex money and used it for a trip or some other technical tool". Both are great in that sense.
Thanks for watching and for sharing your thoughts on the topic, I appreciate it.
As automatics go, I own a few Seikos. I just recently purchased the Orient and I am not disappointed. I receive compliments from coworkers and watch "snobs". You cannot go wrong with either time piece. This is a great interview, but we tend to "overthink" our buying decisions watching these vids. Like anything else, the decision comes down to personal preference.
Thanks for watching and thanks for the feedback. You're right, in the end it's up to the individual.
So many of these "reviews" are chances for reviewers to reinforce their personal preferences. I appreciate the ones who at least call out their biases. I call bs on those who don't.
I already have the Orient Ray one in blue and the bezel is jammed probably due to one of the spring tabs breaking off and wedging in between. Love the vintage look of the SKX and the unique Seiko case. The iso 6425 diver certification is a nice touch on the Seiko SKX especially given the price point.
Thanks for watching and the comments. Sorry to hear your Ray bezel has problems. Going to get it fixed or not worried about it?
Forgot to mention great review. Oh it bugs my OCD for sure : ) I primarily service my own watches however removing the bezel on this one has got me stumped. I've taped the lugs off and tried everything from a watch knife to a razor blade and cannot get the retaining spring to let go. I'll eventually get it off. Of course I'll likely need a Orient replacement spring. I just purchased the SKX 007 earilar this year and really like it.
A very comprehensive and fair review. However you did not point out that the Seiko is a Divers watch; meaning every watch is individually tested for compliance with the ISO ratings. That may be be important if you are a diver. Two quick and dirty means to identify an ISO certified watch is the word 'Divers' appearing on the dial; the second being the identification of minutes elapsed by markers on the bezel. The Ray has neither... I suspect Orient only test samples to establish their WR bona fides. Orient's M Force range is a true Diver. That apart I agree that objectively the Ray 2 is an SKX killer however subjectively the call is based on opinion and I shall not argue any further. The SKX is now an old design and it is instructive to note Seiko has seen fit to endow even cheaper watches with hacking/winding abilities.
In my long SKX review I do mention the ISO rating on the SKX. I did forget to mention it in this video, thanks for pointing that out.
JustBlueFish the only reason why the Rays aren't tested to ISO 6425, or at least not marketed as such, is because they're not allowed to take a bite of that sweet SKX cake ;) Orient Watch and Seiko Time Corp are sister brands. I think the Rays are at least as capable as the SKX's, and in my opinion offer better value. Also, blue sun burst dial ;)
Ming's the sister to seiko is pulsar
double Nickel all these brands are under the same big Seiko Holdings Corp. umbrella (which in turn is under the bigger Seiko Group umbrella)
I thought you can only imprint 200m on your dial if you're ISO certified? Isn't it a given?
You can keep that obsolete SKX. Has the movement ever been upgraded? I think Orient is definitely beginning to make its move. The watch is clearly better and more modern.
Great review, very thorough. I personally have the 007. When I went to buy it was between these two and the Citizen NY0040.
Thanks for watching. Haven't seen that Citizen I'll have to look it up.
I have 2 SKX 's (the 007 and the Pepsi version), a Orient Mako (Orange gen1 with the date button) and also the Ray II (blue dial). I love the SKX's but the Ray II movement - in my opinion - beats the SKX's hands down in user friendliness. I love the handwinding/hacking option. Also, the metal bracelet on the 007 is just not my bag. It feels real cheap. I replaced it on both with a NATO strap. However, looks-wise I do like the crown placement of the Seiko (the 5 o'clock position is iconic) and I do like the Seiko cushion case more. But still, you get more bang for your buck - movement wise - with the Ray II.
Thanks for watching I appreciate it.
Orient is better looking. Looks way more expensive and I love the red detail on the second hand. Seiko is probably more durable and its a real divers watch not sure if the ray 2 stands pressure in dives well it might.
Thanks for watching.
ive got both the skx007 and orient ray raven 2. i like them both and both get about equal amounts of wrist time. i agree that overall the orient is a better made watch but theres just something about the skx i prefer.
I too wanted a distinct watch feature, which is why i bought the first mako, pepsi tone. It just feels stands out on its own
I think in general the Mako is a bit more unique looking then the Ray. Especially because of its dial configuration. I didn't know it came in a Pepsi coloration.
Excellente review. The new Orient movements based in the legendary 469´s (based in Seiko too) are amazingly precise. All mine have an error less than 10s/day. All the Orients and Seikos to the Americas are assembled in Brasil and made in Japan. Timex made a huge factory too. Thank you.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
Thanks to you.
Hand wind & hacking is great!
definitely a great feature to have.
I have both a Mako II and SKX007 and according to watchtracker the SKX is running +3s/d and the mako II is also running +3s/d. However when I look at the graph, the accuracy variances during a day is more (more beat error) for the SKX.
Pretty good accuracy out of both of them any way you cut it.
It's funny, when I was deciding on my first watch I saw this video and bought a Ray 2. Now 16 watches later, I'm back here again because I just bought an skx007 😂
It's the circle of life!
Which is getting more wrist time?
Had a ray and drop it on my drive way. A little piece of the glass chipped right off so i returned it. Was super disappointed so now idk i kind of want the 007 but i LOVED the look of the ray
That sucks, but the 007/009 are cool too.
I've always liked the bracelet on the Seiko very much. Thanks for a decent review.
I agree with you. Good video. Thing is, the Orient is kind of like an old Porsche 911. Sure, other cars and newer Porsche 911s are faster and have more features but nothing captures the magic of the classic shape, engine sound, and simplicity for design purpose of the 911. The Seiko skx series is very much similar. Yes, the Orient is probably a better watch but, as you say, it doesn't have that magic which comes in the super basic design of the skx. The Orient is, however, one heck of a watch for a hundred and fifty bucks. Spend another hundred and ten getting a strapcode bracelet and doing a sapphire crystal mod and you have a watch that competes with pieces that cost 10 times as much. My opinion...
Thanks for watching John-Carlos. Very good analogy. I appreciate it.
Or just buy a Mako USA II 😎
Orient best,and that's it!
Thanks for watching I appreciate it.
You mustn't own an skx haha
@@paulwilberforce9659 You mustn't own a Ray 2 haha
@@sethkaufman2107 yeah I did , sold it , and yes regret it
I got the Blu Ray 2 not long ago and really love the color. It could almost pass as a dressier sport watch, and it's definitely dressier than the SKX. I like mine with the metal bracelet, but might also try it with a brown or tan leather strap, which I think would also look cool. Given the hacking and winding features, it's a way better buy than the SKX. I also got myself a Citizen diver which I also love, and I'm wear these two all the time, swapping out both every other day. Orient did a fantastic job. Kudos. Thanks for the great review.
Thanks for watching I appreciate it. Enjoy that Ray 2.
For the price I feel the Ray 2 is a better deal.
You get more watch for less money in a lot of ways.
I like your perspective in comparing both watches. I own a black ray 1 and a blue ray 2. I plan on getting a Pepsi Seiko skx009 to broaden my collection.
Good choice a Pepsi Skx would make a nice addition.
The crown being at 4 o clock is a must for me. I have my SKX on a Super Oyster bracelet and will be purchasing the Super Jubilee soon. If it had hacking and manuel wind that'll be perfect.
I wish they’d just put the 4R movement in the SKX and make it perfect.
I have a Ray 2 with the blue sunburst dial..This makes a big difference for me.. Everything pops so much better..That said I love my SKX007 ..
Accuracy, to me is paramount! It should really matter to every watch user. Out of the question.
Thanks for watching
On forums many , many people are reporting excellent accuracy with than Orient movement. There are always people who get a bad one but from what I have seen you would not be totally shocked to see one run at an accuracy similar to much more expensive watches.
Thanks for watching.
Great comparison! The only reason I bought the Ray Ii is because I can't wear my Sub and not get mobbed. It is a nice alternative, I wish I live in a safer country. I had to look at the date alignment on mine after hearing you complain on yours. Happily, it's perfectly aligned. I will not dive with it. My friend killed his Tag while diving haha. I got mine for $150 at the local AD.
Thanks for watching Lani. I appreciate it. It must be rough where you live if you don't feel safe wearing a watch in public, what country is this? That's pretty crazy.
I just got the blue Ray which happens to be my first automatic watch. Needless to say that I’m am smitten with it.
Congrats on the new watch. Thanks for watching.
What keeps this from even coming close to being a SKX killer is the fragile crystal, weak spring bars, and the easily strippable crown.
Other than that, the Ray 2 has a better movement, metal movement holder over the plastic movement holder of the SKX, better fit and finish, and overall better quality control. I haven't had or read of any misaligned chapter ring, or hands. That said, even if the Orient did not have those issues, the X factor of the SKX just does it for me. I don't really have to decide though, because I have both. I actually have multiple variants of the SKX, and both the Mako 2 and Ray 2 in that stunning blue!
Which do you prefer of the two, the Mako or the Ray?
JustBlueFish That's a hard one! I like the dial layout on the Mako, but I like the lume and caseback on the Ray. During the day and on the wrist, I would say the Mako. I just like the numbers over dots better.
Waktosha 73 you can prevent stripping the crown by turning it counterclockwise until it catches the threads. Therefore, stripping is not even an issue when comparing the ray to the seiko.
I find the Orient bezel (and winding) action to be less than satisfying, as well as screwing down the small tight crown!
The misaligned date window (or wheel) would constantly drive me crazy.
It's such a common problem on watches like this, including most notably Seiko, that I've almost come to expect some sort of alignment issue when I order one. Of course you can absolutely send it back, depending on the sellers return policy of course, and I wouldn't fault you for doing just that.
There are only two Orient dive watches that have ever interested me: the Pepsi bezel Mako and the Raven. I bought a Pepsi Mako (for which they never updated the movement),and I decided that I prefer my SKX because its case is just more comfortable. Although the Mako is far more beautiful, I find the SKXs design to be more practical. For instance, the flat bezel/crystal on the SKX reduces scratches, and the crystal and bezel are much more prone to scratches on the Mako.
I should mention that every Seiko I've ever had has been much more accurate than my Orients. I almost returned my Bambino because of its inaccuracy, but it was only +24 secs/day. My Mako is around +21 secs/day. For comparison, my two SKXs were +1 and +10 secs/day.
Both of my Orients were more accurate than the majority of my Seikos but like I said in the video, it's very much luck of the draw. That said I too prefer the SKX. THanks for watching.
You got me looking at orient now.
It's a great brand in my experience. Definitely worth looking at.
I've been contemplating these watches (among others) for some time now... one thing really stands out to me. Many of the Seiko SKX series seem to have misaligned dials/lume pips/inner bezel chapter ring. Same as in this video as well. It really jumps at me... Maybe this is "normal" for a seiko or something? I marked many of their watches off my list.
Yeah it's normal even on their $1k + watches
Great review. It's good to have options, I got the orient. :)
You said it right. The Orient is just a nice looking watch. That sums it up just fine.
Thanks for watching I appreciate it.
Had a orient ray and a mako. Very nice daily beaters on big problem though. Why do they insist on using mineral glass that scratches so easily. Jeez a few dollars more for sapphire wouldn’t break the bank and then you would have two great little watches for the money
Thanks for watching.
That's the reason because I bought an Orient JIS or Triton, my Citizen Promaster automatic has scratches.
@@newhuskytwenty then your still going to have scratches because you bought rubbish
It's simple, for an automatic watch fan an Orient and a Seiko are "must have"!.
I've an Orient Mako XL blue and a Seiko snzf17, both are very good watches with different design, I can't prefer one, I love both!
Thanks for watching I appreciate it.
You're welcome, thanks for your good job, top!
Thank you. You helped me to choose orient
Glad to help.
A coincidence… When this video came up on automatic play I just happened to be wearing my Ray II. I have a big collection and this Ray II Continues to win wrist Time over many of my more expensive watches. I put it on a Retro/vintage style leather strap(watch looks great on most any strap). I have 3SKX’s And I like the rate to just as much but for different reasons. The SKX is a very tool-like watchGreat for outdoor and athletic activities...The Ray II looks more refined looking And I think it’s a better choice As an office watch, and in a business-casual setting. I never feel the need to change it out for a dress watch, and with the SKX I do.
I just bought a RAYII today is because off the blue sunburst dial,if the SKX has one I like it ,I would choose the SKX over the RAY.
Congrats on the new Ray, enjoy it.
Very fair review. To be honest, I see a bit more of a closeness to the Omega and SKX...the orient is a bit more "round" and closer to the feel of my Submariner...but thats personal
Thanks for watching!
The Seiko outstyles the Ray II. However, the Orient has a better movement because it has hacking and hand-winding. So, why not have the best of both worlds and get a Seiko diver with hand-winding and hacking. I just bought the Seiko mini-turtle and it combines the best of both watches: the Ray II and the SKX. It must be cheaper to buy the mini-turtle than buying two watches: the SKX and Ray II. Thanks for your videos, by the way. They are always good to watch.
Thanks for watching.
orient ray more like a dress watch, skx007/009 more like a rugged watch a true iconic diver's watch because of its price and durability and custom parts availability, I'd still choose skx007/009 because of its character and pride, new movement or not
Thanks for watching.
Not for nothing but, alot of higher end Seiko watches have very Similar bracelets to the Orient. I think it's worth mentioning they share the same corporate umbrella. As far as comparing the Orient to Omega Seamaster, I'd say Speedmaster instead . But that's just me. Great review. Love both of them. Thanks.
Thanks for watching Andy. Appreciate the feedback.
No doubt, and thank you so much for your reply. I meant no disrespect in my comment I was just throwing some observations I made out there for sake of discussion. I rarely comment and after I did I thought " Oh no, I hope I didn't offend ". Especially seeing as how I don't create videos myself. Lol. Your channel is awesome and thank you again for the content and the quick reply. Happy Holidays and keep up the great work!
Andy Ianniello
Handwinding and hacking are huge. I have never had a 7S26 movement run over 6 hours off the wrist. My SKX809 will not run over 2 hours off my wrist and sometimes will stop running even if I wear it while sleeping.
The 7s26 movement is a pile of hot garbage. Unfortunately I’ve really only come to realize that after having experience with dozens of these watches. I love the designs of a lot of Seikos but I won’t buy them anymore. I care to much about the performance, accuracy and reliability to keep throwing away money on these entry level watches.
I do not have the SKX but I do have a Blue Turtle (SRP773) and I find the bezel of the Ray II and the Mako XL superior over the Turtle. Once you get the click on the Orient, there is no backwards play. But my turtle has a bit of play. Not sure if it's just my turtle or if its the same with the SKX. Also the moment the bezel clicks on the Orient it's perfectly aligned to the chapter rings. It is a bit stiff, and harder to turn when compared with the Seiko.
What I do not know is that will both my Orient be able to handle diving to regular sport diving level as I know my Turtle will be able to do.
With these affordable and entry level watches, be it from Seiko or Orient or probably any other company it is largely luck of the draw. I would imagine you will find examples that have a better bezel from Seiko vs Orient and vice versa.
I think most people's attachment to the SKX line is mostly due to brand name recognition, nostalgia and reinforcement. We've been exposed to the design for decades. It's like a middle aged guy who looks around a showroom full of new cars, leaves the car lot and sees an old Camaro or GTO cruise by. Same effect.
James Judy 3 people like the skx007 simply because everyone else likes it
I own both and prefer the skx. The proportions on the dial just look better to me. The Orient indices are a bit small, and make the dial seem a bit empty.
Thanks for watching and commenting I appreciate it. I like them both but I too prefer the skx.
Most SKX starts around €180 (brand new), where I've seen Orient at €120. As a cheap person, I'd go all the way with Orient. Prefer their aesthetic anyway. And the Raven Orient... That's a gem.
Thanks for watching I appreciate it.
I've been able to sort of "hack" the movement momentarily on my SKX007 by holding counterclockwise torque on the crown in the "set time" position. Not sure if this is a good idea or not, but it sort of works, especially if it is not fully wound.
Love your video! Just got my Ray 2 in the mail today and I absolutely in love with it. I will be getting a Skx007 in the future for sure though
Thanks for watching buddy.
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews I wanted to ask you, I’ve heard of people use a bezel for cooking, like to time their pasta and stuff. How would you use a bezel? For example if I wanted to time myself for 20 minutes..Do you just twist it to like 20 and it automatically moves to zero when the time is over?
A nice strapcode bracelet does wonders for either watch. Well worth the cost of the upgrade.
I should check those out sometime.
kleinbottled79 good luck getting one with end links that fit...
Actually pretty easy. They make 'em specific for the ray/mako 2.
kleinbottled79 yes, I know. And with that in mind I'll say again good luck getting one with end links that fit
I suppose mine doesn't have a *perfect* fit. I can make it rattle if I try. Don't notice it in normal wear. Still, it's yards better than the stock one. Might be helpful if you contributed your experience here... perhaps I did get 'good luck'?
This video got me buy a new watch which is orient ray 2, although I already bought fossil ch2891 a week ago!
Nice, enjoy the Ray!
My Ray 2 that I got a week ago is running maybe plus 1 second per day which is crazy. Also picked up the Mako 2 and it’s about plus 9 seconds per day.
Both are pretty good but that Ray is indeed pretty crazy.
It was a tough choice but I went with the Seiko, the Orient is a better watch in a way i'm not too keen on the bezel the sloping the large numbers and the font is off putting, the crown at the 3 o clock would dig into my wrist and it looks dressy for mh everyday wear i'm glad I went with the Skx but someday I may add the Orient to the collection I love the long arrow headed red seconds hand 😊
Not a bad choice, it’s my preference too, but either would be solid choices.
I just sold my Seiko SKX007. I thought it was too clunky, too many sharp edges, bezel was too tall. Yeah, the bezel was easier to operate but it was an uncomfortable lump on my wrist. I just ordered a new Ray II for a bargain $134. Time will tell. Good comparison review.
Where did you bought it? I want to buy one too :D
It's easier if you just press down on the Oreint bezel slightly and turn instead of trying to grip it from the side.
Im sure 90% of people complaining about the bezel never actually dive or even rotate the bezel.
As I see diver watches are more of a style than actual working tools.
Seiko = better diver
Orient = better watch to wear on a random Tuesday
If the ray 2 had a saphire crystal my mind would be made.
There is a cool “USA” version of the Mako that comes with a sapphire crystal and an upgraded bracelet with solid end links worth checking out. www.orientwatchusa.com/shop/mens-watches/saa0200bd9/
honestly i bought the orient as a gift for my dad and it is decent, but lacks the charm and charisma and winsome design of the skx, however the 7s26 is non winding and non hacking. so my advice is buy an skx and then a separate nh35 movement to swap in and happy modding
Skx is a diver for sure. A real diver despite i wear it under suit numerous times.
I liked the Orient a lot, but the SKX is the watch that is still in my collection for what it's worth.
Seiko is the watch of the masses, Orient is an entry-level watch of the middle-class people. PERIOD!
aren`t the middle-class people considered to be masses?
@@Artem-vi1cb haha exactly
At least you said it at the end..give you credit for that.. “emotional investment “...because outside of that and hanging on to ISO certification..the Orient dive watches blow the Seikos away.. far from “just a little better”.. truth for me is frankly- The 007 is a high school graduation watch.. the orient is the affordable adults watch
Thanks for watching Dwayne. Appreciate the feedback, hope you enjoyed the video.
Bezel on my Ray II took quite a while to loosen up to what I’d consider acceptable
I've heard similar reports from several people. Did you spin it a lot to break it in, or did it just loosen up from normal use?
The long and short of it is, the Orient is a better quality watch, the Seiko is a more interesting unique watch. I have both, the 007 & blue ray 2. I think they are very different and for their great prices both should be had.
Thanks for watching Helder. Having both the 007 and Ray solves the problem of having to pick between them, good idea.
JustBlueFish Watch Reviews yea I had the SKX first and I thought it would be silly to have 2 divers early in my collection and I vowed to never have both. In the end I thinkk they're like brothers or sisters, they belong together. Both offer so much for so little, there's not much better values around.
Put in a 4r36/nh36 movement into the skx007. I'll be upgrading soon.
I have considered trying that myself, but doing the swap is probably more work than I have the expertise to do.
I own the Invicta Pepsi, 42mm and I'm very happy with it. Changed the band with a more serious one. Has a Seiko NH35A movement and I got lucky, was very well regulated. COSC precision to be fair. Love it!
i like your videos, just straight up information, no bullshit.