*Explanation of M'aiq's references in video order:* -M'aiq knows things that only the developers or players should know. -Nobody at Bethesda actually bothered to count the steps up to High Hrothgar. -Imperial soldiers hunt criminals all across Cyrodiil, but Skyrim is divided into holds with separate crime bounties. -Oblivion had skills and attributes. Skyrim only has skills and perks. -Skyrim is the first game in the series that allowed the use of dragon shouts. -Oblivion is infamous for its hideous character models. -Skyrim allows players to give stuff to follower NPCs. -The block button is used to hit with the other weapon when dual-wielding. -*Werebears were* supposed to be in Skyrim, and *were* only later introduced in Dragonborn. -Skyrim allows the use of Black Soul Gems to trap the souls of mortal humanoids. -The NPCs in Oblivion always complain about mudcrabs to each other in random conversations. -Paradox. M'aiq is lying about both statements being untrue. -Skyrim lets you use two spells at once, one in each hand. -Skyrim removed weapon degradation. No need to repair or carry extras. -Skyrim removed spellcrafting. You can't combine magics yourself. -For some reason Bethesda was unable to implement beards in Oblivion's characters. -The random junk item "calipers" was present in Oblivion but never made it into Skyrim. -NPC conversations are no longer endless repetition of the same topics robotically. -In Skyrim Winterhold was always collapsed. M'aiq asks if you played TES1 Arena, and actually saw the town as it used to be. -M'aiq knows that friendly AI is stupid and suicidal and followers often die because of that. -Firstly, M'aiq has never aged in the series. Secondly, Skyrim only has nord children. -Supposedly there's a big civil war in Skyrim, but you barely notice it anywhere. -True. Dwemer poisoned the falmer. They stayed that way after the Dwemer disappeared. -The Mysticism school of magic was removed in Skyrim. -Skyrim lets the player get gay married and nobody objects to marrying the same gender. -M'aiq's "father" was himself, which is why he *lied* to M'aiq about him being a different person. -Nord steel equipment wasn't released until the DLCs in Skyrim. And it has fur. -Khajiit in Arena are humans with cat ears and tails, Khajiit in Morrowind have digitigrade legs, Khajiit in Oblivion look like ugly lions, and Khajiit in Skyrim look like fancy bobcats. -Carriages were introduced in Skyrim, but it takes exactly the same amount of time and effort to fast travel on foot. -In The Elder Scrolls, combat skills don't increase if used on inanimate objects such as targets on a shooting range. -Mai'q never sleeps and doesn't get tired.
Plutonia Cool! Just have one thing to say though: there aren't only Nord children in Skyrim. There just aren't children of the races of mer. You can find Redguard and Imperial children, though. Other than that small error, good job!
The first time I met Ma'iq was when I was fighting a dragon. Then, the dragon flunged to the ground and throw something to the air. Thought it was a soldier or something. To my surprise it was a Khajiit named Ma'iq the Liar. Thought he was dead and I was gonna take his stuff but then he started talking to me while lying on the ground. Got a good laugh there!😂
Ya, rly. Dwemer disappeared because Kagrenac's Tools were used on Heart of Lorkhan. Falmer went blind because Dwemer wanted a race of expendable slaves and poisoned them.
We just love M'aiq, he's like a communicator between the creators and the players. But damnit, they had better do an update and include a referance to certain skyrim memes, like how M'aiq probably took an arrow to the knee, then the torso, the ear, and even to the spine and still goes adventuring.
m'aiq is the best character in the game, he is like the ultimate easter egg of all elder scrolls games, the mentions he makes about the whole game do make sense and he should be considered as not just a liar but as a truth speaker and a character who obviously tends to break the fourth wall of the entire game, besides that he's a khajiit and i love khajiits.
"M'aiq's father was called M'aiq, And his father's father, at least that is what his father said" Reference to how there was not one, but many M'aiqs, the name is passed down through the generations :-)
@MrMoldy4 the khajit were redesigned. instead of looking like tropical cats as they do in oblivion, they were designed with the look of mountain cats that would be common in colder weather in mind. so, they look stockier and have a thicker coat
His reference to being soul trapped may appear in a DLC? Maiq said too many spells is bad, maybe Beth accounting for not a huge amount of spells, Maiq on combining magic is Beth saying they don't want custom/hybrid spells (eg. Fireball and Frost Breath making some weird spell), Maiq on not remembering his childhood, perhaps he never had one.... this hints at maybe he is a Dramora or Daedric prince?
@TheCombineOverlord Well, that's quite a question. OB takes place 200 years before Skyrim (Fourth Era started with the death of the Emperor in OB and it's year 4E201 in Skyrim), but it's still quite a lot. Anyhow: 1. M'aiq implies that all his male ancestors bore the same name of M'Aiq. 2. He claims to have been "trapped in a soul gem", and Azura's quest in Skyrim proves one can survive almost indefinitely that way. 3. He breaks the fourth wall and hangs out with deities.
@TheGus619 On his childhood thing, it's a reference how there are only human childrens in skyrim, no beast (Khajit, Argonian, etc.) childrens in Skyrim. The combining spell thing is a reference how in previous ES games there's making spells, and how there's dual wielding spells in Skyrim. Too much magic references how dual wielding spells can make the spell better and more dangerous than if we use it one by one.
M'aiq is the series' running meme/development commenter. And his family is pretty big as he'll make a note of when he says his father was named M'aiq, as was his father's father.
My bet is that it's about how Khajiit (All beast races, in fact) in different games have different anatomy even if it's the same character, like M'Aiq.
M'aiq provides an idea of things that where cut from the game or thought about, answers to questions and things people have wanted in the game and his own interpritation as to why its not there( ex: nudity, witch he then says everyone looks fine with clothing), and lastly he also provides insight and observations on the current and past games (such as saying the people of skyrim look much better than the people of cyrodill, insinuating better graphics and such).
if you read between the lines you would think m'aiq is a time traveler consider that in oblivion he talks about werewolf and dragons. consider also that he talks about his dad being also named m'aiq and his father, father.. could be a sign his time travel has damage his mind. just a thought.
@OracleFefe Khajiits even used to be just another type of humans in Arena and Daggerfall, only kinda painting themselves like cats. Those were dark times indeed.
@MalfatoIII There is no such thing as too much skooma in Khajiit society. The Khajiit believe that by consuming it (Moon sugar), they are consuming a small portion of the eternal souls of the moon gods, Jone and Jode. It drives them into fits of ecstasy and abandon, purportedly leaving the streets of Elsweyr's major cities strewn with catmen shivering in the grip of sugar-fits. That's a quote from Pocket Guide to the Empire book from the games.
@MalfatoIII You can find him in "random encounters". There are certain spots in the game world that will have something spawn in them. An empire patrol, a thief, a painted cow, a bunch of farmers, or maybe even nothing at all. Just travel along roads on foot or on a horse, you'll run into him eventually.
@Xboxskaterlass M'Aiq is not related to any quests and appears in random encounters and more often than not ALONG with an actual random encounter such as hired thugs, thieves that try to extort gold from you, DB assassins, imperial/stormcloak patrols and so on. He runs away and hides if any fight breaks out though. You should meet him if you travel along roads on foot, eventually. It took me about 400 hours to find him enough times to record everything he has to say, so keep it in mind.
What do you mean "you never know"? There are books in the game that describe the events that happened. "The Falmer: A Study" and "The Battle of Red Mountain and the Rise and Fall of the Tribunal". Totally available online and are less than an A4 page in length with 12p Arial font.
lol in the mission "diplomatic immunity" the guy says to a khajit "why dont your mind your own buisness instead of stuffing your face with moon sugar?" khajit stays silent
He appears randomly on the main road. Try walking somewhere instead of fast traveling. I know its a pain to walk but thats the only way you can encounter him.
@DarkBioAssassin No, There are more than three maiqs. Because oblivion took place almost 250 years ago, Most people don't live for that long. Except for elves I think.
@EpiiikZzZ4238 They did remove one fun (For a munchkin) option and replaced it with another. You can enchant items to make better potions, to increase your enchantment skill to make enchanted items that let you make even better potions... Then do the same with smithing and bam, overpower. 700 dam dagger with 30x backstab bonus, for instance... :D
@AHafan2 Well, that's how the world of TES works. You can level up certain skills by hitting viable targets. Various mobs are viable targets, while dummies and targets are not.
@Socran But he is a Liar. With a capital L. Maybe they never existed and this M'Aiq is the same kitty that was fishing in the Vvardenfell and ran around the Cyrodiil.
You never know maybe that whole thing about the Dwemer making them blind with plants was a lie. Maybe the Dwemers disappearance had something to do with an elder scroll cause that makes people blind or maybe Maiq is telling the truth
3rd Era 399 - Events of ES1 Arena 3rd Era 417 - Events of ES2 Daggerfall 3rd Era 427 - Events of ES3 Morrowind (Tribunal and Bloodmoon) 3rd Era 433 - Events of ES4 Oblivion (Shivering Isles) End of 3rd Era 4th Era 201 - Events of ES5 Skyrim Why the 200 year jump when the first four games take place in the span of 35 years? I really couldn't say. As for M'aiq, does he really need explaining? ;)
o-o what? no fish stick quotes? i knwo sheogorath already says about the fish stick...but...i miss the way m'aiq says it. "M'aiq wishes he had a stick made of fishies to give to you...but sadly, he does not." :/ i had a short sword in oblivion named M'aiq's Fishstick
@Pilaf1984 Well, although it's would make a humorous joke, no. Falmer went blind because Dwemer poisoned them and used as slaves and Dwemer dissappeared during a war with Chimer (Who would later become Dunmer).
*Explanation of M'aiq's references in video order:*
-M'aiq knows things that only the developers or players should know.
-Nobody at Bethesda actually bothered to count the steps up to High Hrothgar.
-Imperial soldiers hunt criminals all across Cyrodiil, but Skyrim is divided into holds with separate crime bounties.
-Oblivion had skills and attributes. Skyrim only has skills and perks.
-Skyrim is the first game in the series that allowed the use of dragon shouts.
-Oblivion is infamous for its hideous character models.
-Skyrim allows players to give stuff to follower NPCs.
-The block button is used to hit with the other weapon when dual-wielding.
-*Werebears were* supposed to be in Skyrim, and *were* only later introduced in Dragonborn.
-Skyrim allows the use of Black Soul Gems to trap the souls of mortal humanoids.
-The NPCs in Oblivion always complain about mudcrabs to each other in random conversations.
-Paradox. M'aiq is lying about both statements being untrue.
-Skyrim lets you use two spells at once, one in each hand.
-Skyrim removed weapon degradation. No need to repair or carry extras.
-Skyrim removed spellcrafting. You can't combine magics yourself.
-For some reason Bethesda was unable to implement beards in Oblivion's characters.
-The random junk item "calipers" was present in Oblivion but never made it into Skyrim.
-NPC conversations are no longer endless repetition of the same topics robotically.
-In Skyrim Winterhold was always collapsed. M'aiq asks if you played TES1 Arena, and actually saw the town as it used to be.
-M'aiq knows that friendly AI is stupid and suicidal and followers often die because of that.
-Firstly, M'aiq has never aged in the series. Secondly, Skyrim only has nord children.
-Supposedly there's a big civil war in Skyrim, but you barely notice it anywhere.
-True. Dwemer poisoned the falmer. They stayed that way after the Dwemer disappeared.
-The Mysticism school of magic was removed in Skyrim.
-Skyrim lets the player get gay married and nobody objects to marrying the same gender.
-M'aiq's "father" was himself, which is why he *lied* to M'aiq about him being a different person.
-Nord steel equipment wasn't released until the DLCs in Skyrim. And it has fur.
-Khajiit in Arena are humans with cat ears and tails, Khajiit in Morrowind have digitigrade legs, Khajiit in Oblivion look like ugly lions, and Khajiit in Skyrim look like fancy bobcats.
-Carriages were introduced in Skyrim, but it takes exactly the same amount of time and effort to fast travel on foot.
-In The Elder Scrolls, combat skills don't increase if used on inanimate objects such as targets on a shooting range.
-Mai'q never sleeps and doesn't get tired.
Plutonia this is amazing
Plutonia
Cool! Just have one thing to say though: there aren't only Nord children in Skyrim. There just aren't children of the races of mer. You can find Redguard and Imperial children, though.
Other than that small error, good job!
You're a fucking god
My favourite Khajiit quote is Kharjo's : '' These sands are cold but Khajiit feels warmness from your presence.'' I was like - awwwwww so cute! :D
I really don't want to think that M'aiq is lying
Some say Alduin is Akatosh. Some say M‘aiq is a liar. Don‘t you believe either of those things!
The first time I met Ma'iq was when I was fighting a dragon.
Then, the dragon flunged to the ground and throw something to the air. Thought it was a soldier or something. To my surprise it was a Khajiit named Ma'iq the Liar. Thought he was dead and I was gonna take his stuff but then he started talking to me while lying on the ground. Got a good laugh there!😂
two days before:
Find M´aiq and he say: Werebears ? Where ? Bears ? Men that are Bears ?
next day buy Dragonborn
Found a Werebear...
Stop! Stop! I yield! I yield!
*_NEVER SHOULD’VE COME HERE!!!_*
You'll make a fine rug cat
@@BombBadShorts Too much magic can be dangerous. M‘aiq once had two spells and burn his sweetroll.
new high king, seriously!
M‘aiq has heard that it is dangerous to be your friend.
Ya, rly.
Dwemer disappeared because Kagrenac's Tools were used on Heart of Lorkhan.
Falmer went blind because Dwemer wanted a race of expendable slaves and poisoned them.
And that is why I always play as Khajiit. Awesome accents, awesome way of talking, and epic way of sneaking.
"it does not matter how strong or smart you are. What you do is what matters"
Thanks for the tombstone quote mate.
1. Half-naked pilgrims walk up there on a regular basis.
2. He is an essential NPC, thus immortal.
We just love M'aiq, he's like a communicator between the creators and the players. But damnit, they had better do an update and include a referance to certain skyrim memes, like how M'aiq probably took an arrow to the knee, then the torso, the ear, and even to the spine and still goes adventuring.
m'aiq is the best character in the game, he is like the ultimate easter egg of all elder scrolls games, the mentions he makes about the whole game do make sense and he should be considered as not just a liar but as a truth speaker and a character who obviously tends to break the fourth wall of the entire game, besides that he's a khajiit and i love khajiits.
"Burned his sweetroll" That statement sounds too wrong.
"M'aiq's father was called M'aiq, And his father's father, at least that is what his father said"
Reference to how there was not one, but many M'aiqs, the name is passed down through the generations :-)
Chilly The Foolish But that's a lie...wow you are foolish
@@monbub this actually is not even a little bit a lie
He talk's about thing were scrapped from the game. He talks about co-op, combining spells, mysticism, and blocking while dual-wielding.
I like the sayings relating to the differences between skyrim and oblivion
@MrMoldy4
the khajit were redesigned. instead of looking like tropical cats as they do in oblivion, they were designed with the look of mountain cats that would be common in colder weather in mind.
so, they look stockier and have a thicker coat
His reference to being soul trapped may appear in a DLC? Maiq said too many spells is bad, maybe Beth accounting for not a huge amount of spells, Maiq on combining magic is Beth saying they don't want custom/hybrid spells (eg. Fireball and Frost Breath making some weird spell), Maiq on not remembering his childhood, perhaps he never had one.... this hints at maybe he is a Dramora or Daedric prince?
@TheCombineOverlord Well, that's quite a question. OB takes place 200 years before Skyrim (Fourth Era started with the death of the Emperor in OB and it's year 4E201 in Skyrim), but it's still quite a lot. Anyhow:
1. M'aiq implies that all his male ancestors bore the same name of M'Aiq.
2. He claims to have been "trapped in a soul gem", and Azura's quest in Skyrim proves one can survive almost indefinitely that way.
3. He breaks the fourth wall and hangs out with deities.
He says "Some say Alduin is Akatosh. Some say M'aiq is a Liar. Don't you believe either of those things."
@TheGus619 On his childhood thing, it's a reference how there are only human childrens in skyrim, no beast (Khajit, Argonian, etc.) childrens in Skyrim. The combining spell thing is a reference how in previous ES games there's making spells, and how there's dual wielding spells in Skyrim. Too much magic references how dual wielding spells can make the spell better and more dangerous than if we use it one by one.
M'aiq is the series' running meme/development commenter. And his family is pretty big as he'll make a note of when he says his father was named M'aiq, as was his father's father.
And he talk in third person :D
My bet is that it's about how Khajiit (All beast races, in fact) in different games have different anatomy even if it's the same character, like M'Aiq.
M'aiq provides an idea of things that where cut from the game or thought about, answers to questions and things people have wanted in the game and his own interpritation as to why its not there( ex: nudity, witch he then says everyone looks fine with clothing), and lastly he also provides insight and observations on the current and past games (such as saying the people of skyrim look much better than the people of cyrodill, insinuating better graphics and such).
"Why do soldiers bother with target practice? One learns best by hitting real people."
DAMN M'AIQ, YOU SCARY
Oblivion- Maiq wishes he had a stick of fishies to give to you
Skyrim- Maiq wishes you well....
WHAT HAPPENED TO CRAZY MAIQ??
if you read between the lines you would think m'aiq is a time traveler consider that in oblivion he talks about werewolf and dragons. consider also that he talks about his dad being also named m'aiq and his father, father.. could be a sign his time travel has damage his mind. just a thought.
@OracleFefe Khajiits even used to be just another type of humans in Arena and Daggerfall, only kinda painting themselves like cats. Those were dark times indeed.
fur armor makes him nervous..lmaooo
I love how all the Khajiit talk in 3rd person.
for a liar... he's the most honest NPC i ever met in a video game -_-
@MalfatoIII There is no such thing as too much skooma in Khajiit society. The Khajiit believe that by consuming it (Moon sugar), they are consuming a small portion of the eternal souls of the moon gods, Jone and Jode. It drives them into fits of ecstasy and abandon, purportedly leaving the streets of Elsweyr's major cities strewn with catmen shivering in the grip of sugar-fits. That's a quote from Pocket Guide to the Empire book from the games.
M'aiq is the most interesting man in the world of The Elder Scrolls.
"I used to be an liar like you, then i took a fist in my face."
he's just in there for fun, saying strange but sometimes true things just for the "hey" of it. a "easter egg" if you will,
I have yet to meet this enlightened soul...
@MalfatoIII You can find him in "random encounters". There are certain spots in the game world that will have something spawn in them. An empire patrol, a thief, a painted cow, a bunch of farmers, or maybe even nothing at all. Just travel along roads on foot or on a horse, you'll run into him eventually.
M'aiq is like a thousand years old...
@MrMoldy4 Lol this one is funny, when he says that he talks about how the redesign of Kahjiit from Oblivion to Skyrim are drastically different.
@Xboxskaterlass M'Aiq is not related to any quests and appears in random encounters and more often than not ALONG with an actual random encounter such as hired thugs, thieves that try to extort gold from you, DB assassins, imperial/stormcloak patrols and so on. He runs away and hides if any fight breaks out though. You should meet him if you travel along roads on foot, eventually. It took me about 400 hours to find him enough times to record everything he has to say, so keep it in mind.
What do you mean "you never know"? There are books in the game that describe the events that happened. "The Falmer: A Study" and "The Battle of Red Mountain and the Rise and Fall of the Tribunal". Totally available online and are less than an A4 page in length with 12p Arial font.
I don't always appear in random locations but I do I chose to tell stories. Stay adventurous my friends.
lol in the mission "diplomatic immunity" the guy says to a khajit "why dont your mind your own buisness instead of stuffing your face with moon sugar?" khajit stays silent
Some say Alduin is Akatosh. Some say M'aiq is a liar. Don't you believe either of those things.
Probably referencing the overhaul of the Khajiit in Skyrim, whose looks are now more cat-likeMrMoldy4
@KomodoNameless No, It had NOTHING to do with the Dwemer, as M'aiq says, the falmer stayed in dark, cold caverns too long, and went blind.
Where you can meet M'aiq?
He appears randomly on the main road. Try walking somewhere instead of fast traveling. I know its a pain to walk but thats the only way you can encounter him.
"M/Ma = Child, Apprentice, also used to imply virginity" M'aiq may be a virgin.
@Miekun89 There were no children in OB and MW, that's why he doesn't remember being one.
@DarkBioAssassin No, There are more than three maiqs.
Because oblivion took place almost 250 years ago, Most people don't live for that long. Except for elves I think.
You know when you're a Bethesda nerd when you get all of these references.....
@EpiiikZzZ4238 They did remove one fun (For a munchkin) option and replaced it with another. You can enchant items to make better potions, to increase your enchantment skill to make enchanted items that let you make even better potions... Then do the same with smithing and bam, overpower. 700 dam dagger with 30x backstab bonus, for instance... :D
@ErfanAzyze He is an essential NPC and cannot be killed.
@explosionsfun You find him often by not fast traveling, and rather, traveling standardly either on foot or on horseback.
Angry simulated gay xenophiliac sex probably isn't exactly what you should talk about with people, but thanks for input regardless.
@AHafan2 Well, that's how the world of TES works. You can level up certain skills by hitting viable targets. Various mobs are viable targets, while dummies and targets are not.
Maiq always tell something that exist in future tes game..mai'q the easter egg...actually he telling tje truth but about the future
YOUR FORGOT "Mai'q is done talking"
@Socran But he is a Liar. With a capital L. Maybe they never existed and this M'Aiq is the same kitty that was fishing in the Vvardenfell and ran around the Cyrodiil.
3:56 da best caption
You never know maybe that whole thing about the Dwemer making them blind with plants was a lie. Maybe the Dwemers disappearance had something to do with an elder scroll cause that makes people blind or maybe Maiq is telling the truth
0:51 Ha, Bethesda not acknowledging the existence of the potato faces.
I think the Oblivion Maiq was best tbh. Apparently, he ws actually programmed to go across Cyrodiil and search for callipers, what a crazy kook.
also any general hilarity and observations about the game or games. ether way ya gota love him
In the game guide they actually have every line M'aiq says :D
3rd Era 399 - Events of ES1 Arena
3rd Era 417 - Events of ES2 Daggerfall
3rd Era 427 - Events of ES3 Morrowind (Tribunal and Bloodmoon)
3rd Era 433 - Events of ES4 Oblivion (Shivering Isles) End of 3rd Era
4th Era 201 - Events of ES5 Skyrim
Why the 200 year jump when the first four games take place in the span of 35 years? I really couldn't say. As for M'aiq, does he really need explaining? ;)
Magic+magic is still magic..... guys got a point
@KomodoNameless Probably. He'd probably be the strongest character in the entire game too.
The ENTIRE game!
M'Aiq = The Yoda of Tamriel
IF HE SAYS M'AIQ AGAIN IM JUST GONNA YELL
I will name my next cat M'aiq. Either that or Cecil.
D'aww, I love this guy. Sad that I've never seen him yet. D:
0:56 and a big middle finger to those of us who want co-op.
0:36 i have heard the before and it will be my xbox live motto now!
in fallout 3 you had intelligence and strength (strong and smart) it doesn't matter in skyrim because you don't have them
simple
M'aiq knows much indeed
@KomodoNameless So does Sheogorath (except for the cut content and gameplay changes), but everybody loves that pimp
o-o what? no fish stick quotes? i knwo sheogorath already says about the fish stick...but...i miss the way m'aiq says it. "M'aiq wishes he had a stick made of fishies to give to you...but sadly, he does not." :/ i had a short sword in oblivion named M'aiq's Fishstick
I used to be a liar like M'aiq, then I took an arrow to the knee...
@OJAW12
M'aiq's father was called M'aiq
as was M'aiq's father's father
at least, that's what he said
the interesting part is that werebears are a possible dlc
*Was.
I lured it into High Hrothgar monastery, where it was shouted to death in a very entertaining manner. :D
This khajiit has been alive for a really LONG time.....he's a god!!
@KomodoNameless But his father's name was also M'aiq, and his father's father!
@Pilaf1984 Well, although it's would make a humorous joke, no. Falmer went blind because Dwemer poisoned them and used as slaves and Dwemer dissappeared during a war with Chimer (Who would later become Dunmer).
Looks like Khajits get sexier-looking as centuries pass by.
1:46 - NOOOO, NOT THE SWEETROLL!!
I only met this guy like once in the entire game.
M'aiq is the most interesting man in Skyrim. Stay thirsty My friends.
M'aiq has delusions of grandeur
Not touchy, just saying 2+2 does not equal 5, due to following reasons №1 and №2. That's all there is to it.
2:19 that is cuz they took them out out of skyrim m'aiq you're not in oblivion anymore
Maiq is the master of the elder scrolls!
@Apldeap100
*Googles*
*Takes off glasses*
Mother of god...
This makes me hype more for the elder scrolls VI especially when it's set in elsweyr ; (
hey he said his father and his father's father were also named maiq
3:51 that is so true, i dont know why they call him a liar
M'aiq the Liar number 1 tip : keep on Trolling trolling trolling ...