There is a underworld ,it's called the Helphen . A black tree represents it and it also has red grace that guided those who have fell in the battle to the place . Look up the weapon HELPHEN'S STREEPLE .
That is awesome! Thank you for the info! I looked into it a bit and it's really fascinating, and I wonder if it could be introduced in a more concrete manner in future DLC. Interestingly, it seems like a dark version of Valhalla.
Regarding the Tree of Life with reference to Jewish Kabbalah: essentially, the diagram for the Tree of Life in Kabbalah is like a circuit, it shows how power and light of creation flow from God at (but actually beyond) the top of the diagram, through to the Earth and humanity at the bottom. I immediately drew a connection between the Elden Ring symbol and the Kabbalistic Tree of Life, since the Elden Ring is in actuality a diagram for how Grace descends from the Greater Will to reach the Lands Between. The Top Arc in the Elden Ring is the source of Grace, poured down from the heavens. It's hard to see, but there is a Second and Third Arcs within the Interlocking Rings segment of the diagram: the Second Arc, when combined with the vertical line of Grace, depicts the Seal of Marika, and relates to the Erdtree with outstretched arms recieving Grace from on high and serving to bridge the influence of the Greater Will to those below. The Third Arc depicts the lower branches of the Erdtree: I interpret this as relating to the Elden Lord and demigod children of Marika, since they are the analog to the Asgardians who live in the branches of Yggdrasil. Thus, these branches should be understood as symbolic of Marikas children. Another reason why I associate this arc with Marikas children (and consorts, actually) is because this is the arc that comes in the middle of the Interlocking Rings segment, and the Interlocking Rings are what all the Great Runes of the demigods are made from. Finally, we reach the Lower Arc, which symbolizes the Lands Between and the earth: it is this arc that the Rune Arcs we collect throughout the world were shards of. This is the grace we receive as Tarnished that gives us the guidance of Grace. Also, in some of the game's logos, this Lower Arc is removed to depict a Tarnished in the Lands Between instead, kneeling down beside his fallen enemy, as if in prayer, to receive this grace.
There’s also emperor Ganishka from berserk, the apostle which conquered midland and was defeated by Griffith, who during the battle battle between the two became a giant shining tree
Everyone talking about how connected it is to Norse….but most of the language, names, pronunciations come from a whole slew of indo-European beliefs. LEAST of which coming from Norse. Look into some Celtic and Gaelic stories. You’ll immediately see connection. Even some direct names used such as “eochaid” (pronounced ehck-uh) derive directly from the stories of the father god The Dagda. Eochaid, is mentioned among the marais family/shaded castle quest, with the bell bearing hunter. As mentioned in the description of his armor/weapon, he comes from the lands of eochaid, or something like that. “Eochaid” was another name used for the dagda. Another connection is lord Godfrey himself, being the “father” and the first of the tarnished, has some relation to The Dagda Or, the war with the giants and queen marika. The Morrigan, wages war on the fey, (and other names) which have been seen to trace back to the stories of Norse giants. The Norse world tree is traced back to the celts ( as the celts came much before them) and the art/carvings in the games architecture of the erd tree, is something much more reminiscent of Celtic knotting
@@noctugal yup! you did well, i also forgot to mention that as you said, you travel beyond the fog to get there. well when you first talk to melina (and in other cutscenes) they mention “traveler from beyond the fog”
In fact, the Celtic references are numerous and very important in the construction of the natural order of this universe and the stories of its characters.
Speaking of Godfrey, his story with Marika seems to take some serious inspiration from the story of Oisín and Queen Niamh of the Golden Hair. The list just goes on and on
The reference to Christianity can be seen by the T posing. Look at the pose and Golden Order Seal wich makes a Triangle. It's a Trinity, like the Holy Trinity Diagram. This is totally a supposition by me, but the Eyes of Yelough remind me of Guaraná Fruit. If you search for it, you'll that Guaraná has this Eye looking format and the most interesting are in the legend behind this fruit such as the effect. The legend: Legends say this fruit came from the eyes of a poor indigenous child who was killed by a evil God disguised as a snake. But the God Tupan told the parents to cut the eyeballs and seed them so he could help his village even in death. By that, the fruits had this Eye format. In gameplay: Guaraná is a fruit that helps you to clarify the mind and increases your focus. Funny enough, eyes of Yelough are one of required materials to craft Clarifying Boluses.
Very minor thing but you brought up how the Celtic tree bore golden apples and the erd tree ( or maybe the great tree) was known to bare gifts and "fruit" in it's earlier day. Just thought you'd like the connection I'm deeply enjoying your videos sir. Keep up the good work tarnished.
I love this, very insightful. I believe the tree has been changed, its top is visibly cut even without modding and looks like it's been broken into multiple times befor we are asked to. Theres depictions around of a more branchy tree with beings standing on them. Theres a description that says the tree itself used to be itself like life itself. But it looks like a ghost tree now. I'm also certain the tree is eclipsing the sun and stealing its power and influence
reincarnation and ending the cycle of reincarnation are hindu/buddhist/jain dharmic concepts, the goal of all of these religions is technically the same as elden ring's Destined Death. in Buddhism specifically "Greater Will" seems to play the role of "Desire" which causes the soul to be born into the material universe
KILLED IT! I hope you're doing well Noctugal. I don't think I've seen you on twitter lately but I love seeing you thrive on here and I agree with a lot of this video as usual. I just released my first video finally btw glad to see you pop up on my recs on the new account :3
In Islam there is a tree called Sedratol Montaha. Its a conifer type I believe and goes all the way to heaven but I'm not sure if its roots go all the way to hell. There IS a tree in hell that bears bitter fruit and offers no shade. Like the bed of chaos kind of.
One more possible source you may entertain! The Australian Christmas Tree, locally known as "moodjar" Enjoy! Thank you so much for giving a fun general presentation on the world-tree mythology from a world perspective! World! Anyway.. This really solidifies a number of sources for... miyazaki's brain IS the crucible! idied...
this was an excellent presentation, with wonderful images to support your narration, however, I found the looping background music to be very grating after too long I know that with copyright issues adding in music can be problematic to the monetization of videos, but I really think that fitting music can elevate even any presentation It's very frustrating because I'd want to re-watch something with this much quality research but the music droning on and on really makes it tough to watch honestly though, this was a wonderful presentation, that very neatly covered a lot of expansive information in an impressively concise way
Thank you for this video, I have been working on an lore theory and the bit about Yggdrasil being Cyclic supports my theory a bit as it has to do with a time loop. Please tell me what you think. Ranni, Melina, and The Gloam Eyed Queen. A time travel lore theory Ranni first introduces herself as Renna, strange although many do not tend to put much thought into the notion, but little things like this tend to brood in me and make me think even harder. The name Renna is mentioned otherwise in the game. a Tower adjacent to Ranni's home is called 'Renna's Rise', what is even more interesting is that the area that these towers occupy is called 'The Three Sisters' and that is where this gets interesting. This gets a little deep, so bare with me. It seems fairly obvious to me that the second Round Table Hold that you find in Leyndell is the in the current timeline and the one Melina brings you to is in the past since the one in Leyndell is identical but dilapidated. The biggest clue to this is the description of the Coded Sword that is found upon the throne of the Two Fingers in the Leyndell version of the Round Table Hold: "Hidden sword once granted to the Tarnished of the Roundtable by the Two Fingers. A formless cipher comprises its blade, which deals holy damage no shield can repel. Champions would gather at the Roundtable Hold in days long past, when the Two Fingers were masters of oration, their flesh yet full of vigor." The fact that the lore for the weapon mentions that it is a cipher (a cipher being a key to unlocking a puzzle) along with the Ciper Pata that can be found in the lively Round table Hold. gives me even more hope that this is an IMPORTANT clue. In my theory, the event of the shattering actually fragmented reality itself, making different times as well as realities collide. I believe some characters are aware of this phenomenon, and some are not. Its not a secret that many believe that Ranni the Witch is Melina, and time travel would highly support this since Ranni’s real body is long dead. So Melina could be the past younger version of Ranni. Melina is Ranni Support for this theory is: 1) Ranni has a ghostly figure next to her that shares an eye with her, the eye is closed and would match Melina’s closed eye, it even has a similar symbol underneath. 2) Both Ranni and Melina fade away in similar fashion. 3) Both Ranni and Melina know Torrent When an NPC invades it does so from another world or ‘reality’ the Urd Tree and minor Erdrees act as conduits to the link between these worlds explaining why when you kill Erdtree Avatars certain NPC invaders can no longer invade. When the Erdtree is set ablaze the the link is weakened causing the fire to seep into the time rift which results in the past version of the round table hold burning down, leading to it’s eventual current state that you find it in Leyndell. Another thought is about Melina's hands: Melina has scar tissue on her hands. This could mean she has been the burning maiden before in previous ages, she keeps trying to fix the broken timeline, in every age (alternate reality). With all that said, if this were true, then Ranni/Melina can freely move through time. From Ranni's dialogue we can surmise that she wants to change something about the past... In Ranni's Rise "I stole Death long before, and search now for the dark path. That I might one day upend the whole of it, and rid the world of all that came before." The context of this remark is pretty solid, she wants to reverse something, something that came before. As a doll: "What lieth beyond the dark path... That I must betray everything, and rid the world of what came before." This is in the same context as the last, but now she is remarking as if to rid the world of the actual event entirely. During her ending: "Now Cometh the age of stars. A thousand year voyage under the wisdom of the Moon. My take on this is that the portal she opens during the ending is a time gate, that will bring you back one thousand years into the past, allowing her to try to change the past with the knowledge she has of events leading up to the current state of the world. Extra credit: One thing Ranni says that seems to bridge a gap in the Ranni is Melina Theory is "I am certain now, fate steered us to our reunion. I must thank Torrent too for his part" If you remember Melina's dialogue after the Margit fight when she reveals she has been testing you she remarks "Torrent had your measure from the very start" Back to talking about Renna. Now we know that Ranni initiated the 'Night of the Black Knives' and she states that it was her choice to eliminate her corporeal flesh but she never really states why, and this is my theory. Ranni and Renna are two forms of the same being, just as Marika and Radagon are, and the Renna personality is evil and destined to become The Gloam Eyed Queen, just as we see at the end of the Frenzied flame ending. This is not too hard to believe since Ranni is a daughter of Radagon, so this birth trait could be passed down. The family probably decided to present Ranni and Renna as sisters to hide the fact that they were the the same being, just as it was a well kept secret that Markia and Radagon were the same being. The name Renna would fit as a Daughter of Rennala as similar names befit the demigod offspring throughout the game. So perhaps, Ranni did this to destroy the evil side of herself after being warned by a future version of herself (Ranni the Witch) The Snow Witch armor states that the doll that Ranni now resides in is based on her old secret mentor: 'Once worn by the snowy crone who the young Ranni encountered deep in the woods. She was a witch, and well versed in cold sorceries. It is said that the doll that houses Ranni's soul was modeled after her. That old witch was Ranni's secret mentor.' Hopefully this is now starting to make sense. Ranni in her doll form traveled to the past to find her young self and warn her that her alter ego is destined to become the Gloam Eyed Queen and preform great atrocities after seeing it in an alternate age. She teaches her past self all that she knows, and that she must die. But it is not as simple as this, her future self knows that her own actions have absolutely destroyed the lands between, so she helps her young self permanently close her left eye with a magic seal in an attempt to keep the Renna persona at bay. and sends her off into the future, to try and find the Tarnished of legend to help her fix all of the collateral damage of the shattering, that was of course caused as a result of 'The night of the Black Knives" What she doesn't realize, is that it the Gloam Eyed Queen is actually created as a result of sending herself into the future, when in one of the alternate realities the Tarnished chooses to become the Lord of Frenzied Flame burning all including whatever power keeps the seal on the eye of Melina/Ranni causing it to fade and allowing her eye to open, and the Renna persona to awaken and become the Gloam eyed queen, swearing to follow you to the ends of time and deliver "Destined Death' to you. She travels back in time to commit the atrocities that were trying to be prevented in the first place, creating one big time paradox. The Three Sisters are the 3 personalities of the same being; Ranni, Renna, and Melina. Addendum: A few relics found within the Lands between that also support this theory Blade of Calling: The description of The Blade of Calling, the knife wielded by Melina gives a hint ‘Dagger given to one who set out on a journey to fulfill her duty long ago. The power of its former owner, the kindling maiden, is still apparent. The one who walks alongside flame, Shall one day meet the road of Destined Death.‘ The fact that this weapon definately belongs to Melina yet the version of her that accompanies you still weilds it can mean the one you find in the hidden room on the edge of Leyndell can be discarded from when she sheds her flesh in an alternate past. Melina IS "the Kindling Maiden" as she is used for kindling to set the Urd Tree ablaze Fingerslayer blade and Sacred Relic Sword I think they are one and the same! If you look closely at them they have too many on-point nuances that point to them being as such. The Elden Beast creates the sword with the remains of Radagon's corpse after you defeat him, and it looks like a living weapon with flesh and bones. The Fingerslayer Blade looks like a dead shriveled version of the same weapon, so I think it was brought back in time and somehow become damaged along the way (the Fingerslayer Blade seems to have incurred damage to part of it's spiral vertebrae) and became the shriveled remnants you find in Nokstella. Once again thanks for listening to my ramblings. This is all just a theory that I hope you find interesting.
I wish Elden Ring was more Tir Na Nog and spirits/afterlife/mythic realm inspired, like in pre-release theories. Or anything really but with coherent vision and more narrow, fleshed out scope. Because the lore feels all over the place. Mentioning many different things and ideas in passing with little to no development.
This analysis of Elden Ring is fantastic! However, as a Muslim, I would like to point out one discrepancy. We do not believe in a Tree of Immortality. The Tree of Immortality mentioned in the story of Adam given in Islam was a lie Satan told Adam and Eve to get them to eat from the tree. Islam does have some great trees that God and His messenger mention. One, for instance, is Sidrat Al-Muntaha, the Great Lote Tree. This tree is a boundary that marks the edge of creation. It is a massive tree that is said that a rider will travel in the shade of one of its branches for a hundred years. Not even the Angels a permitted beyond the tree, not even Gabriel.
At 9:30 you mention singing, branches, golden apples, and no connection to Elden Ring. The 'bats' that sing are often close to golden seeds that are from the little trees sprouting from the branches of the roots of the erdtree. hope that helps
I bet there's some European story that features a female leader from a failed/lost civilization that gets married into the ruling class, allowing her to become Queen of All; which then sets in motion her plan to destroy the land she now rules over, since they are ancient enemies.
I think it is unfair to say that in order to play Demon Souls or Dark Souls one has to be a fan of Berserk, but maybe I am misconstruing your words ... as I picked up these games without really knowing what Berserk was outside of seeing it in passing.
I don't believe I ever said that, though if I did I certainly did not mean to send that message! I know very little about Berserk as well and have adored FromSoftware games nonetheless.
@@noctugal Sorry, that is why I put in that I might be misconstruing your words, I do understand now how Berserk was a major influence in the games in the way of tone, worldbuilding and atmosphere while drawing on many other mythological sources. I was reading a two book series on Demon Souls, Dark Souls and Bloodborne and blown away on deep these games were in their underpinnings or how the concept of summoning was inspired by seeing another driver with auto trouble.
YOOOOO! Humans are in the “Lands Between” Heaven and Hell, or the canopy of the tree and the roots,,,,,,,, that may be the most convincing and well thought out explanations for the name I’ve heard to date! Keep up the amazing work dude!
Martin is a known Tolkien fan right? Queen marika and radagon are of a different type of people, a rare kind of people. They're essentially elves of Tolkien's lore. Martin used Aragons bloodline too influence for them being more powerful than the remaining members of their kind. The Tolkien stories have mention of a tree of light (life basically) and a tree of darkness (death basically) Here is Martin's influence with these thoughts in mind. Marika and Radagon were actually Twins and not the same person. Before being together and having incestuous children together (emperyeons), they were both married to separate people and had their own kids (demigods). This is backed by Martin's Targaryens in Asoiaf being created by him and incest and incest babies and important bloodlines being a consistent theme in his work. Martin's twist on Tolkien's magic trees. The tree of light is literally surrounded by death, while shining brightly. Their faction is literally called the golden order and is dedicated too control, while maintaining the "holy" metaphor. The actual tree of life is surrounded by scarlet rot and underground in the dark, while it's TRUE use if for healing and rebirth. Martin inverted Tolkiens original metaphor. As far as Elves and Aragon tie in? Marika and Radagon are of a near extinct species of humanoids (like Tolkien's elves on middle earth [aka lands between]) and of their kind, they are of some kind of bloodline, hence their importance to the greater will (ie targaryens importance to the long night of Martin's own creation). I have a bit more of thought up but idk if this will post as is
I really appreciate the thoughtfulness and effort! I really like your connections, though there are a few that might fall apart upon further inspection, such as not actually knowing entirely the relationship between Radagon and Marika. Moreover, Marika comes from a race that is known to only have females. Regardless, I enjoy your thoughts, though it seems like a better direct comparison to Game of Thrones. Furthermore, this video is primarily focused on mythological/theological inspirations and connections to the Erdtree specifically. However, I do plan on doing more theories on connections to other works such as Lord of the Rings, but that's not what this video is. I pretty much just mentioned Lord of the Rings and Beowulf because those are clear literary inspirations for Elden Ring.
![What Where Why: Wormfaces [Elden Ring Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z9VnKcC3NI0/mqdefault.jpg)
There is a underworld ,it's called the Helphen . A black tree represents it and it also has red grace that guided those who have fell in the battle to the place . Look up the weapon HELPHEN'S STREEPLE .
That is awesome! Thank you for the info! I looked into it a bit and it's really fascinating, and I wonder if it could be introduced in a more concrete manner in future DLC. Interestingly, it seems like a dark version of Valhalla.
I’m sure that the forbidden lands are a gateway to helphen. You can see the red rays of grace floating in the sky.
@@kairecheneau9347 i wonder if the forbidden lands will contain an entrance to a dlc area in the future, it feels like it has the right vibes for it
The 'g' in "gnostic" is silent.
Just a minor correction about Odin and his sacrifice to obtain the runes.
Odin actually sacrifices himself to himself, as odd as that sounds.
Shouldnt sound weird it's the basis of Christianity.
@@adamplentl5588 wow, never saw the connection here, amazing
Regarding the Tree of Life with reference to Jewish Kabbalah: essentially, the diagram for the Tree of Life in Kabbalah is like a circuit, it shows how power and light of creation flow from God at (but actually beyond) the top of the diagram, through to the Earth and humanity at the bottom. I immediately drew a connection between the Elden Ring symbol and the Kabbalistic Tree of Life, since the Elden Ring is in actuality a diagram for how Grace descends from the Greater Will to reach the Lands Between.
The Top Arc in the Elden Ring is the source of Grace, poured down from the heavens. It's hard to see, but there is a Second and Third Arcs within the Interlocking Rings segment of the diagram: the Second Arc, when combined with the vertical line of Grace, depicts the Seal of Marika, and relates to the Erdtree with outstretched arms recieving Grace from on high and serving to bridge the influence of the Greater Will to those below. The Third Arc depicts the lower branches of the Erdtree: I interpret this as relating to the Elden Lord and demigod children of Marika, since they are the analog to the Asgardians who live in the branches of Yggdrasil. Thus, these branches should be understood as symbolic of Marikas children. Another reason why I associate this arc with Marikas children (and consorts, actually) is because this is the arc that comes in the middle of the Interlocking Rings segment, and the Interlocking Rings are what all the Great Runes of the demigods are made from. Finally, we reach the Lower Arc, which symbolizes the Lands Between and the earth: it is this arc that the Rune Arcs we collect throughout the world were shards of. This is the grace we receive as Tarnished that gives us the guidance of Grace. Also, in some of the game's logos, this Lower Arc is removed to depict a Tarnished in the Lands Between instead, kneeling down beside his fallen enemy, as if in prayer, to receive this grace.
There’s also emperor Ganishka from berserk, the apostle which conquered midland and was defeated by Griffith, who during the battle battle between the two became a giant shining tree
Everyone talking about how connected it is to Norse….but most of the language, names, pronunciations come from a whole slew of indo-European beliefs. LEAST of which coming from Norse. Look into some Celtic and Gaelic stories. You’ll immediately see connection.
Even some direct names used such as “eochaid” (pronounced ehck-uh) derive directly from the stories of the father god The Dagda. Eochaid, is mentioned among the marais family/shaded castle quest, with the bell bearing hunter. As mentioned in the description of his armor/weapon, he comes from the lands of eochaid, or something like that. “Eochaid” was another name used for the dagda.
Another connection is lord Godfrey himself, being the “father” and the first of the tarnished, has some relation to The Dagda
Or, the war with the giants and queen marika. The Morrigan, wages war on the fey, (and other names) which have been seen to trace back to the stories of Norse giants.
The Norse world tree is traced back to the celts ( as the celts came much before them) and the art/carvings in the games architecture of the erd tree, is something much more reminiscent of Celtic knotting
I do talk about the celts a bit in this video, though I plan on doing more in-depth videos on specific sources of inspiration. Thank you!
@@noctugal yup! you did well, i also forgot to mention that as you said, you travel beyond the fog to get there. well when you first talk to melina (and in other cutscenes) they mention “traveler from beyond the fog”
In fact, the Celtic references are numerous and very important in the construction of the natural order of this universe and the stories of its characters.
Speaking of Godfrey, his story with Marika seems to take some serious inspiration from the story of Oisín and Queen Niamh of the Golden Hair. The list just goes on and on
@@romerobritto9094 i haven’t heard about that, i’ll really look into it
Thank you so much for the support on this video! Any ideas for future topics? Drop em down here!
The reference to Christianity can be seen by the T posing. Look at the pose and Golden Order Seal wich makes a Triangle. It's a Trinity, like the Holy Trinity Diagram.
This is totally a supposition by me, but the Eyes of Yelough remind me of Guaraná Fruit. If you search for it, you'll that Guaraná has this Eye looking format and the most interesting are in the legend behind this fruit such as the effect.
The legend: Legends say this fruit came from the eyes of a poor indigenous child who was killed by a evil God disguised as a snake. But the God Tupan told the parents to cut the eyeballs and seed them so he could help his village even in death. By that, the fruits had this Eye format.
In gameplay: Guaraná is a fruit that helps you to clarify the mind and increases your focus. Funny enough, eyes of Yelough are one of required materials to craft Clarifying Boluses.
Cool stuff this is an awesome video great work
Very minor thing but you brought up how the Celtic tree bore golden apples and the erd tree ( or maybe the great tree) was known to bare gifts and "fruit" in it's earlier day. Just thought you'd like the connection
I'm deeply enjoying your videos sir. Keep up the good work tarnished.
Great video, top notch!
I love this, very insightful. I believe the tree has been changed, its top is visibly cut even without modding and looks like it's been broken into multiple times befor we are asked to. Theres depictions around of a more branchy tree with beings standing on them. Theres a description that says the tree itself used to be itself like life itself. But it looks like a ghost tree now. I'm also certain the tree is eclipsing the sun and stealing its power and influence
reincarnation and ending the cycle of reincarnation are hindu/buddhist/jain dharmic concepts, the goal of all of these religions is technically the same as elden ring's Destined Death. in Buddhism specifically "Greater Will" seems to play the role of "Desire" which causes the soul to be born into the material universe
GREAT VIDEO BRO!!! Why has this not been seen by more people? amazing speculation and viewpoints
KILLED IT! I hope you're doing well Noctugal. I don't think I've seen you on twitter lately but I love seeing you thrive on here and I agree with a lot of this video as usual. I just released my first video finally btw glad to see you pop up on my recs on the new account :3
Thank you so much! Life has been a bit hectic, though I'm planning on making something of a comeback and uploading more often!
In Islam there is a tree called Sedratol Montaha. Its a conifer type I believe and goes all the way to heaven but I'm not sure if its roots go all the way to hell. There IS a tree in hell that bears bitter fruit and offers no shade. Like the bed of chaos kind of.
One more possible source you may entertain!
The Australian Christmas Tree, locally known as "moodjar"
Enjoy!
Thank you so much for giving a fun general presentation on the world-tree mythology from a world perspective! World! Anyway.. This really solidifies a number of sources for... miyazaki's brain IS the crucible! idied...
this was an excellent presentation, with wonderful images to support your narration, however, I found the looping background music to be very grating after too long
I know that with copyright issues adding in music can be problematic to the monetization of videos, but I really think that fitting music can elevate even any presentation
It's very frustrating because I'd want to re-watch something with this much quality research but the music droning on and on really makes it tough to watch
honestly though, this was a wonderful presentation, that very neatly covered a lot of expansive information in an impressively concise way
Thank you for this video, I have been working on an lore theory and the bit about Yggdrasil being Cyclic supports my theory a bit as it has to do with a time loop.
Please tell me what you think.
Ranni, Melina, and The Gloam Eyed Queen. A time travel lore theory
Ranni first introduces herself as Renna, strange although many do not tend to put much thought into the notion, but little things like this tend to brood in me and make me think even harder. The name Renna is mentioned otherwise in the game. a Tower adjacent to Ranni's home is called 'Renna's Rise', what is even more interesting is that the area that these towers occupy is called 'The Three Sisters' and that is where this gets interesting.
This gets a little deep, so bare with me.
It seems fairly obvious to me that the second Round Table Hold that you find in Leyndell is the in the current timeline and the one Melina brings you to is in the past since the one in Leyndell is identical but dilapidated. The biggest clue to this is the description of the Coded Sword that is found upon the throne of the Two Fingers in the Leyndell version of the Round Table Hold:
"Hidden sword once granted to the Tarnished of the Roundtable by the Two Fingers. A formless cipher comprises its blade, which deals holy damage no shield can repel. Champions would gather at the Roundtable Hold in days long past, when the Two Fingers were masters of oration, their flesh yet full of vigor." The fact that the lore for the weapon mentions that it is a cipher (a cipher being a key to unlocking a puzzle) along with the Ciper Pata that can be found in the lively Round table Hold. gives me even more hope that this is an IMPORTANT clue.
In my theory, the event of the shattering actually fragmented reality itself, making different times as well as realities collide. I believe some characters are aware of this phenomenon, and some are not.
Its not a secret that many believe that Ranni the Witch is Melina, and time travel would highly support this since Ranni’s real body is long dead. So Melina could be the past younger version of Ranni.
Melina is Ranni Support for this theory is:
1) Ranni has a ghostly figure next to her that shares an eye with her, the eye is closed and would match Melina’s closed eye, it even has a similar symbol underneath.
2) Both Ranni and Melina fade away in similar fashion.
3) Both Ranni and Melina know Torrent
When an NPC invades it does so from another world or ‘reality’ the Urd Tree and minor Erdrees act as conduits to the link between these worlds explaining why when you kill Erdtree Avatars certain NPC invaders can no longer invade.
When the Erdtree is set ablaze the the link is weakened causing the fire to seep into the time rift which results in the past version of the round table hold burning down, leading to it’s eventual current state that you find it in Leyndell.
Another thought is about Melina's hands: Melina has scar tissue on her hands. This could mean she has been the burning maiden before in previous ages, she keeps trying to fix the broken timeline, in every age (alternate reality).
With all that said, if this were true, then Ranni/Melina can freely move through time.
From Ranni's dialogue we can surmise that she wants to change something about the past...
In Ranni's Rise "I stole Death long before, and search now for the dark path. That I might one day upend the whole of it, and rid the world of all that came before."
The context of this remark is pretty solid, she wants to reverse something, something that came before.
As a doll: "What lieth beyond the dark path... That I must betray everything, and rid the world of what came before."
This is in the same context as the last, but now she is remarking as if to rid the world of the actual event entirely.
During her ending: "Now Cometh the age of stars. A thousand year voyage under the wisdom of the Moon.
My take on this is that the portal she opens during the ending is a time gate, that will bring you back one thousand years into the past, allowing her to try to change the past with the knowledge she has of events leading up to the current state of the world.
Extra credit: One thing Ranni says that seems to bridge a gap in the Ranni is Melina Theory is "I am certain now, fate steered us to our reunion. I must thank Torrent too for his part" If you remember Melina's dialogue after the Margit fight when she reveals she has been testing you she remarks "Torrent had your measure from the very start"
Back to talking about Renna. Now we know that Ranni initiated the 'Night of the Black Knives' and she states that it was her choice to eliminate her corporeal flesh but she never really states why, and this is my theory.
Ranni and Renna are two forms of the same being, just as Marika and Radagon are, and the Renna personality is evil and destined to become The Gloam Eyed Queen, just as we see at the end of the Frenzied flame ending. This is not too hard to believe since Ranni is a daughter of Radagon, so this birth trait could be passed down. The family probably decided to present Ranni and Renna as sisters to hide the fact that they were the the same being, just as it was a well kept secret that Markia and Radagon were the same being. The name Renna would fit as a Daughter of Rennala as similar names befit the demigod offspring throughout the game.
So perhaps, Ranni did this to destroy the evil side of herself after being warned by a future version of herself (Ranni the Witch)
The Snow Witch armor states that the doll that Ranni now resides in is based on her old secret mentor:
'Once worn by the snowy crone who the young Ranni encountered deep in the woods. She was a witch, and well versed in cold sorceries. It is said that the doll that houses Ranni's soul was modeled after her.
That old witch was Ranni's secret mentor.'
Hopefully this is now starting to make sense.
Ranni in her doll form traveled to the past to find her young self and warn her that her alter ego is destined to become the Gloam Eyed Queen and preform great atrocities after seeing it in an alternate age. She teaches her past self all that she knows, and that she must die.
But it is not as simple as this, her future self knows that her own actions have absolutely destroyed the lands between, so she helps her young self permanently close her left eye with a magic seal in an attempt to keep the Renna persona at bay. and sends her off into the future, to try and find the Tarnished of legend to help her fix all of the collateral damage of the shattering, that was of course caused as a result of 'The night of the Black Knives"
What she doesn't realize, is that it the Gloam Eyed Queen is actually created as a result of sending herself into the future, when in one of the alternate realities the Tarnished chooses to become the Lord of Frenzied Flame burning all including whatever power keeps the seal on the eye of Melina/Ranni causing it to fade and allowing her eye to open, and the Renna persona to awaken and become the Gloam eyed queen, swearing to follow you to the ends of time and deliver "Destined Death' to you. She travels back in time to commit the atrocities that were trying to be prevented in the first place, creating one big time paradox.
The Three Sisters are the 3 personalities of the same being; Ranni, Renna, and Melina.
Addendum: A few relics found within the Lands between that also support this theory
Blade of Calling:
The description of The Blade of Calling, the knife wielded by Melina gives a hint
‘Dagger given to one who set out on a journey to fulfill her duty long ago. The power of its former owner, the kindling maiden, is still apparent.
The one who walks alongside flame, Shall one day meet the road of Destined Death.‘
The fact that this weapon definately belongs to Melina yet the version of her that accompanies you still weilds it can mean the one you find in the hidden room on the edge of Leyndell can be discarded from when she sheds her flesh in an alternate past. Melina IS "the Kindling Maiden" as she is used for kindling to set the Urd Tree ablaze
Fingerslayer blade and Sacred Relic Sword I think they are one and the same! If you look closely at them they have too many on-point nuances that point to them being as such.
The Elden Beast creates the sword with the remains of Radagon's corpse after you defeat him, and it looks like a living weapon with flesh and bones. The Fingerslayer Blade looks like a dead shriveled version of the same weapon, so I think it was brought back in time and somehow become damaged along the way (the Fingerslayer Blade seems to have incurred damage to part of it's spiral vertebrae) and became the shriveled remnants you find in Nokstella.
Once again thanks for listening to my ramblings. This is all just a theory that I hope you find interesting.
I really really like this! You've done an incredible job weaving all of this info together!
@@noctugal thanks! hopefully future DLC will give us more insight.
I wish Elden Ring was more Tir Na Nog and spirits/afterlife/mythic realm inspired, like in pre-release theories. Or anything really but with coherent vision and more narrow, fleshed out scope.
Because the lore feels all over the place. Mentioning many different things and ideas in passing with little to no development.
Uhhhh the first bhudda definitely wasn't Ghandi?? It was Gautama Buddha?
Yeah not sure why I said that 🤷 I corrected it with text though it's not the most visible
11:25 the G in Gnostics is silent
Why did you say Ghandi was the original Buddha? Do you mean Siddartha?
I do! I will correct that! Much appreciated!
@@noctugal oh ok I wasnt sure. Great video, looking forward to the next ones
great vid man
This analysis of Elden Ring is fantastic! However, as a Muslim, I would like to point out one discrepancy. We do not believe in a Tree of Immortality. The Tree of Immortality mentioned in the story of Adam given in Islam was a lie Satan told Adam and Eve to get them to eat from the tree.
Islam does have some great trees that God and His messenger mention. One, for instance, is Sidrat Al-Muntaha, the Great Lote Tree. This tree is a boundary that marks the edge of creation. It is a massive tree that is said that a rider will travel in the shade of one of its branches for a hundred years. Not even the Angels a permitted beyond the tree, not even Gabriel.
At 9:30 you mention singing, branches, golden apples, and no connection to Elden Ring. The 'bats' that sing are often close to golden seeds that are from the little trees sprouting from the branches of the roots of the erdtree. hope that helps
Me being an Irish person and hearing him pronounce Tír na nóg hurt me physically
You might want to link that video about the berserk bosses in the description.
The "Tree" may be a mushroom, Just a thought!
I bet there's some European story that features a female leader from a failed/lost civilization that gets married into the ruling class, allowing her to become Queen of All; which then sets in motion her plan to destroy the land she now rules over, since they are ancient enemies.
I think it is unfair to say that in order to play Demon Souls or Dark Souls one has to be a fan of Berserk, but maybe I am misconstruing your words ... as I picked up these games without really knowing what Berserk was outside of seeing it in passing.
I don't believe I ever said that, though if I did I certainly did not mean to send that message! I know very little about Berserk as well and have adored FromSoftware games nonetheless.
@@noctugal Sorry, that is why I put in that I might be misconstruing your words, I do understand now how Berserk was a major influence in the games in the way of tone, worldbuilding and atmosphere while drawing on many other mythological sources. I was reading a two book series on Demon Souls, Dark Souls and Bloodborne and blown away on deep these games were in their underpinnings or how the concept of summoning was inspired by seeing another driver with auto trouble.
YOOOOO! Humans are in the “Lands Between” Heaven and Hell, or the canopy of the tree and the roots,,,,,,,, that may be the most convincing and well thought out explanations for the name I’ve heard to date! Keep up the amazing work dude!
Hey man. Look at the story and game with an influence of Tolkien being the main focus.
Could you elaborate?
Martin is a known Tolkien fan right?
Queen marika and radagon are of a different type of people, a rare kind of people. They're essentially elves of Tolkien's lore.
Martin used Aragons bloodline too influence for them being more powerful than the remaining members of their kind.
The Tolkien stories have mention of a tree of light (life basically) and a tree of darkness (death basically)
Here is Martin's influence with these thoughts in mind.
Marika and Radagon were actually Twins and not the same person. Before being together and having incestuous children together (emperyeons), they were both married to separate people and had their own kids (demigods). This is backed by Martin's Targaryens in Asoiaf being created by him and incest and incest babies and important bloodlines being a consistent theme in his work.
Martin's twist on Tolkien's magic trees. The tree of light is literally surrounded by death, while shining brightly. Their faction is literally called the golden order and is dedicated too control, while maintaining the "holy" metaphor.
The actual tree of life is surrounded by scarlet rot and underground in the dark, while it's TRUE use if for healing and rebirth. Martin inverted Tolkiens original metaphor.
As far as Elves and Aragon tie in? Marika and Radagon are of a near extinct species of humanoids (like Tolkien's elves on middle earth [aka lands between]) and of their kind, they are of some kind of bloodline, hence their importance to the greater will (ie targaryens importance to the long night of Martin's own creation).
I have a bit more of thought up but idk if this will post as is
I really appreciate the thoughtfulness and effort! I really like your connections, though there are a few that might fall apart upon further inspection, such as not actually knowing entirely the relationship between Radagon and Marika. Moreover, Marika comes from a race that is known to only have females. Regardless, I enjoy your thoughts, though it seems like a better direct comparison to Game of Thrones. Furthermore, this video is primarily focused on mythological/theological inspirations and connections to the Erdtree specifically. However, I do plan on doing more theories on connections to other works such as Lord of the Rings, but that's not what this video is. I pretty much just mentioned Lord of the Rings and Beowulf because those are clear literary inspirations for Elden Ring.
mahatma gandhi the buddha LMAO x_x
ghandi the original buddha? lol
Did you just say Mahatma Gandhi was original Buddha?
Yes, not even sure why I said that! Wasn't in my script! Though that's why I corrected it with text in the video.
@@noctugal sorry was just listening to you wasn't looking in the video
did you actually say mahatma gandhi was the first buddha?
Yeah my bad 😂