Unfortunately I bought one of these as well in the 4.6” no thumb safety configuration. I have 500 rounds of factory ammo through it and can’t make it through a single magazine without a failure to feed. It regularly has 3 failures per magazine. I am throwing in the towel on this thing. It is going back to S&W. They swear they have never heard of any issues with this model. I doubt they will be able to fix any issues. I have tried 20, 22 and 24 lb recoil springs and there is not much of a difference. I think there is a geometry issue with the feed ramp and magazine angles. Most of the failures are with the top of the bullet lodged against the top of the barrel. Occasionally a round gets stuck halfway into the barrel and dents the case of the round. Ejection is overly strong with the factory recoil spring. I have measured some rounds making it 22-25 feet away from me. Smith and Wesson recommended that I try leaving the slide locked back for a few weeks when I called asking if they have considered a stronger recoil spring.. this doesn’t give me much confidence in that they will be able to resolve the issues that I have experienced. I have ran 200 rounds of Blazer 180 grain, 200 rounds of Sig Elite Performance FMJ 180 grain and 100 rounds of Sig Elite Performance JHP 180 grain ammo through it. All have 1 in 5 failure rate or higher. I am extremely disappointed with this product.
That is an absolutely fantastic report. I'm sorry to hear that you've had so many problems also. That really helps me though because I was going to try to get the 4.6" and see if it made a difference. Apparently it does not. I can't believe they're willing to lie to you like that. It has to be hundreds of people who have called by now. I've called multiple times myself and I know many other people who have. Such a disappointment. They had more than enough time to get this thing right before they put it out. I'm going to pin this comment because it's very valuable. Thank you!!👍🦃👊
@@theturkeysopinion I have pictures if you would like to see them or use them for anything. They are exactly the same failures as the ones you experienced. Out of curiosity, do the magazine springs feel soft to you? The first time I loaded the brand new magazines, I thought to myself that it was unusually easy.
Uhhggg. I just bought a 4" and had it at the range for first time. Mine jammed exactly like yours did. Round jammed against top portion of chamber. 180 or 230gr didn't matter. And I thought recoil felt to harsh also. Made my 4505 feel like butter when I shot it afterwards. ARRRGGGG I think I'm done with SW for anything from now on. Even revolvers. Not the same company that made my 4505. My son has the XDM 10mm, no problems. Should have taken his advice.
I had the same issues and changed the rod and spring to the Wolff 22 pound. I had no issues afterwards with Underwood 220 cast, 200 cast, 140 penetrator, and Hollow 155 grain. All I use in my weapons is Underwood.
Update: I called Smith & Wesson again today... I asked them again if they had heard of this problem yet. They of course told me NOPE they have never heard of this. I was the 1st person to report it. Darn...my luck must stink.😶 If you all are having this problem I encourage you to light the phones up! They have no idea this problem is going on! Please help them! Those poor souls.... Heck, point out some TH-cam videos lol!
Other vids on TH-cam revealed the same type of feed problems that you've been having. As I stated in my previous posting, this is why I decided to stick with the G20 instead of going with the SW. Hopefully, SW will work out the bugs. Can't properly deal with a charging grizzly with an unreliable piece, I don't care how ergonomically superior the MPs are to the Glocks.
I just want it to be known that they blatantly LIE to their customers all day long...... They will lie and lie and lie. Divert ,lie ,lie. Give the run around ,lie...
You’re failure to feed has nothing to do with the way you are holding that pistol. The slide is cycling faster than the mag can push the next round up into it behind the extractor. Had a glock 30S that had the exact same failure to feed. The tighter I griped the pistol , the worst it got . Holding the frame rigid actually increases the slide to frame cycle rate. Slowing the slide speed down with a heavier spring may help a little , but you need to get a fair amount heavier mag spring to push the rounds up faster. BTW , Smith saying they never heard of this is a bunch of crap. I would like to comment on the quality of there current production , but I will bit my tongue and just say they are on my do not buy list.
Yep got 2 glock 20s will do the same thing with full power ammo. If I barely hold the pistol with one hand it ftf less. Your absolutely right the slide cycles to fast the harder you grip it the more it malfunctions. I just shoot mid power ammo now and both operate 100% reliable.
Lol. Yeah, they are slippin. Interesting about the glock 30. Physics are a crazy thing. I don't know what's harder, timing a wheel gun perfectly from scratch or trying to figure out the physics of a semi automatic slide reciprocation. They are definitely gonna be on my probationary list for a while. I used to jump all over their new products just like this one but I think I'll be a little bit more hesitant now. The 12 gauge, the 10 mm, and let's see how the CSX does. Thanks for watching!
Exactly my thoughts on these malfunctions too. I would say a heavier mag spring would be the better solution than a heavier slide spring because the pistol needs to accommodate a wide range of ammo, including low power rounds which may struggle with a heavy slide spring.
I'm not so certain it is the spring in this case. I just compared this mag. with round in it to my 4505. I think the design of the mag is at fault. The feed angle of the round seems to be too much. MUCH more angle to the round in this mag than compared to my 45. And coincidentally my feed issues are the round is stuck in the upper part of the chamber.
I really appreciate all the money you've spent on ammo to keep us informed. I have to say that you saved me from purchasing a S&W MP 2.0 10mm. I live in heavily populated grizzly country in N. Montana. I had researched the G20 and based on all the reviews purchased one less than a month ago on gunbroker for a good price. Before the gun was even shipped, I learned that SW was getting ready to release the new MP 10mm's on the market. I love the ergonomics and features of the SW well over that of the G20, so I thought I'd list the G20 when it arrived and go with the SW, UNTIL reviewing your videos on the SW 10mm and seeing all the malfunctions with heavier rounds. NOT ACCEPTABLE especially in grizzly country. Further research on the G20 shows much greater reliability with the heavy hard cast rounds, ergo, I'm sticking with the G20. Perhaps SW will someday work out the bugs on the new piece.
Im with you brother👊 you gotta have dependability. I'm glad I could help! Thats exactly why i decided to post it! Thanks for watching!! Did you switch barrels for hardcast?
I recommend testing your glock 20s thoroughly with the full power ammo . I couldn't get mine to run reliably on full power ammo. I'm in wyoming all around Yellowstone and finally settled on buffalo bore mono metal. It's mid power and works with fresh mags. Just beware as your mags age and get dirty from tumbling around the mountains they feed slower causing problems with anything more powerful than the mono metal. Wondering up on a grizzly kill the last thing I wanna be thinking is will it work. I'll take a little less power and 100% reliability everytime over the max loaded underwood.
@@theturkeysopinion Well, not yet. It seems from all my research that the Underwood 220gr hard cast has better foot pound energy over the buffalo bore 220gr by about 200 pounds greater. Interestingly, the owner of Buffalo Bore has posted a statement on his website debunking the misconception of shooting hard cast through the Glock OEM polyg. bores. This is based on the fact that hard cast contains no lead therefore will not clog the bore. They do fly straight too, not keyhole. That still doesn't mitigate the issue of the Glock OEM barrels not supporting the lower case and allegedly being the possible causation for Glocks to periodically go kaboom. Nevertheless, I'd like added velocity over my OEM barrel, so I'm considering a 6" or 6.5" L2D make non-threaded barrel. They seem to make the feed ramps set very closely and below the nose of the next awaiting round to be fed, and their ramps are really finely polished. They are not cheap, but you get what you pay for. God Bless
@@richardkotz7561 I thought the same too; hard cast over mon-metal. But mon-metal appears to have better penetration. I am also leaning towards Underwood extreme pen. over both.
There's been my experience that normally if it's a well built firearm which it's a Smith and Wesson weapon that shouldn't have that problem anyway it's usually the magazines . Obviously your mileage may vary !
The XDM 10 mm looks sweet in your last video. I wish there was a hogue grip for it. Have you found which backstrap feels the best on it? I was looking at extra mags and noticed it comes with 3 different kinds
I went with #2. I have thick hands but not large hands. Short fat fingers. #3 would leave me less than ideal holding one handed. Extended mag w/#2 extention filler on the way! Thanks for watching!
Thank you for keeping at it and doing follow-up videos. Doing that pretty much allowed narrowing it down to a likely magazine spring issue. If you just did a "one and done" video like a lot of firearms channels, there would have been no answers. Excellent stuff. Have you considered a Patreon? Because I'd be ready to support your channel.
Glad you like it! Thanks for following along! I enjoy spreading info! We need to help each other out since we are all the beta testers. 😕 I am considering something like Patreon . I'm not sure yet. But people seem to like the channel so I'm going to keep going with it. It does get spendy quick ! I appreciate the comments!
I'm not so certain it is the spring in this case. I just compared this mag. with round in it to my 4505. I think the design of the mag is at fault. The feed angle of the round seems to be too much. MUCH more angle to the round in this mag than compared to my 45. And coincidentally my feed issues are the round is stuck in the upper part of the chamber.
The last round in the chamber has the least amount of spring tension on the follower. Stronger mag spring would help. I'm surprised it didn't fail with the initial milder rounds. The mild rounds gave the mag a chance to keep up with the slide. The hottest round was probably just luck that the last round chambered. Same magazine for each test?
Failure of last round to chamber is due to a weak magazine spring. Mag spring problem is made worse with a strong recoil spring. The mag has to get the round up in time for the fast return of the slide. I have seen weak mag springs in new S&W magazines.
@@theturkeysopinion The two failures with the 180 Gr Sig V-Crown JHP that I had were with 5 left in mag, and other time had 9 left. My wrist condition for sure could have played a role, as my left/support hand was so sore/injured, that I couldn't even hang on with that hand. But no issues with right hand, and nothing else failed (187 total rounds). I wish now I knew now if the failures were both with the same mag. Kicking myself for not noting it, because I usually do keep track of that stuff. Will pay attention moving forward.
Mag spring is too weak for whatever reason, so on the last round where it is near fully extended it can't push the round up fast enough. Try replacing the factory spring with a Wolff +5% power mag spring, it should run flawless.
I'm not so certain it is the spring in this case. I just compared this mag. with round in it to my 4505. I think the design of the mag is at fault. The feed angle of the round seems to be too much. MUCH more angle to the round in this mag than compared to my 45. And coincidentally my feed issues are the round is stuck in the upper part of the chamber.
My guess is weak mag springs. Had the same issue with a P227 running the 14 round mags. Ran range ammo just fine but as soon as you started using hotter self defense ammo it would fail to feed just like you were getting. Internet fix was to put in some Wolff mag springs that were designed for a double stack Para-Ordinance 1911. Once I did that it ran anything without a hiccup. Hotter ammo cycles the slide faster and the weak mag spring is not strong enough to present the next round properly before the slide starts heading back into the battery. That's the theory and at least my testing of the P227 seems to have born that out.
@@theturkeysopinion Actually found one from Galloway Precision don’t know if I’m allowed to link the product but they have one for the 4” and one for the 4.6” model
BTW , if you haven’t already removed the flared mag well yet on the Springfield, you may try that as it is way more comfortable to shoot with the hot Underwood & Buffalo Bore rounds :)
It may just a bit. That was the one that I wanted but I could never find it in stock anywhere. It's still pretty hard to find. That one seems to have less problems altogether👊👍🦃
Just for kicks, has anyone tried to polish the feed ramp. I also have seen a comment on another tubers vid, that there was a slight bur, left from the machining process, on the top side of the chamber. The rounds were getting snagged when entering the chamber. His failure to feed problem was apparently corrected by minimally chamfering the top edge of the chamber entry way... might be worth looking into. Im no gunsmith but if i run into this problem it would be the first thing I check for. Hope this helps!
Everything appeared smooth on mine but I did see that video. Mine found a new home. I wasn't really into messing with it after Smith wanted to lie to me... That really aggravated me. I might revisit it someday.🦃👊👍
New subscriber following your 10mm journey. Ive come to conclusion weak mag spring may be culprit. Simple test would be shimming within base plate slightly creating more spring tension. Hmm maybe 40 spring might get job done. Anyway thanks much for putting out this content , it's much needed.
I see two problems with the gun. The first is to echo what Roy said about two weeks ago: That gun appears to be under-sprung for full power 10mm. As he stated, the slide velocity is so fast that it will begin to cause malfunctions and holding the gun tighter will increase the slide velocity even more. The fact that the gun cycles and locks open when limp wristed with very light ammo is an indication that the spring is too light. The extreme muzzle flip captured in some of your freeze frames is also indicative of the slide impacting the frame with excessive velocity, which drives the muzzle higher during the recoil motion. It would appear this gun has been calibrated for optimal performance with ammo loaded to 40 cal power. The second problem I see is the feed lips on the magazine. It doesn't look like they support even half the length of the round. If the feed lips don't support enough length of the round, then the feed lips will let the round point too high. To put these two problems together, the excessive slide velocity is causing a very large shock when the slide impacts the frame of the gun, which causes large inertial effects on the round feeding from the magazine. Since the feed lips are so short, they are unable to prevent the next round from pointing too high and running into the top of the barrel hood. My guess is to truly fix the design all the way, S&W needs to lengthen the feed lips, increase recoil spring weight, and add more mass to the slide (further reduce slide velocity). The original M&P (9 and 40) was under-sprung when it first came out also. The 2.0 changed to a heavier recoil spring and increased the locking engagement between the barrel and slide (scrubs additional slide velocity as the barrel unlocks during recoil). The difference between the original and 2.0 can easily be felt when shooting the 40 cal versions. However they do it, let's hope S&W adjusts the 10mm to be as reliable as the other calibers.
@@theturkeysopinion I’m not sure it would mean much to Smith coming from me, but you are welcome to copy and paste my comment into an email to them, since you’re already dealing with them.
APEX is soon to release an FRE (Failure Resistant Extractor) for this. I have tested this part myself as part of a pre-production test. I can honestly say that it makes a world of difference in reliability. Thru about 400rds of varying type, I haven't had any issues with this gun after the FRE install. My 4" model had issues with EVERYTHING. DIdn't matter the strength or bullet type used.
I"m almost beginning to wonder if this is some sort of mag issue honestly. S&W usually makes quality guns and if it was something more major I'd like to think they'd of caught it before they released it. So I guess the question is have you tried a stronger mag spring to see if it helps?
I have not tried that yet. But i do think it is a possibility it does contribute. I'm not sure if it is a stand alone problem or not. Thanks for watching!!
If the ammo is hollow point, it may be catching on the edge of the ramp going into the barrel. S&W had to bevel the edge of all the 4013’s that were purchased by my organization many years ago. Just a thought.
I'm not sure exactly what it is yet. I think it's a conglomeration of problems. I personally would not recommend the 4" to anybody that I care about.. If somebody did have it that I cared about I would definitely buy them the critical duty that it seems to like. I'm wondering if a 4.6" different for me I'm kind of looking for one
@@theturkeysopinion Do it. I think that your methodological approach to testing is engaging viewers and will continue to help your channel grow. I also bought the same 4" and I am living vicariously through your testing 😁
So it could be a weak mag spring? Especially since it was on the last round and the spring is at its weakest point? OK at this point I want to compare Glock 20 mag spring to Smith’s.
I'm no expert but it sure seemed most of the malfunctions you had while testing from previous videos was with the nose of the round wedged up into the top of the chamber. Also you had double feeds while pushing the rounds out by hand. Curious as if the feed lips on the mags aren't good enough under stout recoil or if a heavier mag spring would rectify the issue.
I think it's great that you're entertaining all possibilities with regards to the malfunctions. You're a better man than I, because I wouldn't have done this test. Your normal grip appears pretty damn solid. That's not what's causing the problems. Your gun - it may or may not affect other 10mm's - isn't dependable at this point. I imagine the problems are more widespread, but S&W may choose not to admit it. My guess is the next iteration of 10mm's will be fixed if they continue with this line.
Glad you like it! I should hope they make some revisions! But you are correct it could be isolated even to the 4" guns.. I just never see a 4.6 anywhere around me.
I so want to like this pistol 🤔. My son has a Springfield Armory XDM 40 3.8" and ergonomically I don't like it one bit. My M&P 2.0 9C is a nice fit for my hands and other full sized M&P's I've tried fit real well. Are these tests with the factory main spring or the aftermarket/modified/convoluted/tweaked main spring? What is the round count on it now?
This is the original recoil spring. The other one was just a test piece. I would never trust it so I wouldn't keep it in there. The XDM will take some getting used to you after being on the Smith for so long. But the XDM elite was flawless in my test! Gotta give it a fair go now as edc. Making a holster now!
10 mm is the best millimeter! I love M&P 2.0 and even 1.0 in ALL calibers. BUT, the screwed this one up pretty good. I just cannot believe that they did not put this thing through rigorous testing. I figured the whole reason they haven't put it out for so long is because they couldn't get it right. 😕😕
@@theturkeysopinion I’ve shot a shield before and liked it. I’m not familiar enough with them to have my own opinion. I’ve ran a Glock 19 for awhile and am confident with it. Sometimes you need a little more punch.
I still want that gun but not with the quality control that's coming out of Smith & Wesson right now. Please keep it up I have turned all my friends onto your channel I like the honest opinion. Great work
Don't know what S and W did testing the 10mm but I know Springfield did a 10000 round torture test on the full size XDM 10mm supposedly without a failure. Another reason I bought the Elite
Looks to me like you're having a classic "3 point jam". The fact that you can smack the mag base a have the gun go into battery suggest to me that the barrel probably needs some work on the feed ramp/chamber throat area. I would suggest sending it back to big blue.
I think when you limp wrist, it helps take energy out of the slide. Acting as a heaver recoil spring. I think that is why it ran that last mag. I also have noticed with my m&p 10mm, that all my fail feeds tend to snag up on the loaded chamber indication sighting hole. Next time you have a bind, look at exactly where the round is contacting. Ive had to modify my barrel, and it works better.
@@rockymntdan1 i laid the ramp back reducing the angle and chamfered or rounded all sharp corners, also i chamfered the hood of the chamber where the brass viewing hole is, the nose of my rounds seemed to snag on that point regularly if i was using loads over about 1150 fps. But after that i would say it only had a 3 point bind every other mag. But then i got the spring kit. And installed the 22lb spring, that further helped it. Seems rare that it binds anymore. But i haven’t got to shoot it much after going to the heavier spring. Note i have the 4” model.
@@Swagmoney696 Cool, you did some work on it. If I have to go this far this will be good notes for me to take to the gunsmith. Thanks I'm starting with the simple, magazine fixes, and cross my fingers.
What about is you put a little oil on the cartridges so they don't get stuck? (JK) I have no idea what is the problem there looks to be the feed ramp and the recoil spring.
I believe limp wristing is the problem. In the case with the hot rounds limp wristing is helping it cycle. I think it needs a stiffer recoil spring for the hotter rounds.
@@theturkeysopinion A little stiffer magazine spring probably wouldn't hurt. Ypu might try stretching the magazine spring out a little and see if that helps.. I not sure about the follower though.
The MP 10mm has more recoil than my XDM 10mm 3.8 and 5.25 inch barrels and G20. It has a lighter slide but will not jam is a good grip is used. Remember this is not a beginner caliber , 10mm is an expert level cartridge. If you want easy shooting , cut the power in half and use the tiny 9mm. The lowest recoil in 10mm is my Ruger SR 1911 10mm; all steel , heavy but more accurate than any polymer pistol and has soft recoil. You cannot change the laws of physics, lighter means more recoil.
My Glock 20’s (Gen 3, Gen3 SF and Gen 4) nor my Glock 29 ever give a FTF due to a limp wrist. I don’t think the new M&P 10mm is malfunctioning due to a “limp wrist.” S&W needs to work the bugs out. It’s something they should have done BEFORE putting the gun on the market.
Maybe Smith & Wesson should make an EZ line for shooters who don't hold their pistols properly. Maybe invest in training, your limp wrist pain will go away. I definitely would choose Smith over Springfield. Springfield is as anti 2nd Amendment as they come!
I don't understand... First of all if you have a limp wrist this is not the gun for you FACT...If your a limp wrist person I would suggest the m&p EZ model 380 or 9mm it doesn't matter the EZ models are made for people who has low strength...
I'm going to revisit it again. I would like to try the 29 but maybe I will try the glock 20 again. I bought at once and had many failure to feed issues. A bunch of my friends informed me of a lot of work I would have to do to get it Running reliably. I traded it for something I liked better. I will put it through the same ammo gauntlet that I put these 2 guns through
It is a limp wrist test. "Gang bang style" breaks the elbow and allows for more uncontrolled flipping around. I'm so close so i don't miss my backstop...I'm not trying to bullseye shoot here Thanks for watching!
Unfortunately I bought one of these as well in the 4.6” no thumb safety configuration. I have 500 rounds of factory ammo through it and can’t make it through a single magazine without a failure to feed. It regularly has 3 failures per magazine. I am throwing in the towel on this thing. It is going back to S&W. They swear they have never heard of any issues with this model. I doubt they will be able to fix any issues.
I have tried 20, 22 and 24 lb recoil springs and there is not much of a difference. I think there is a geometry issue with the feed ramp and magazine angles.
Most of the failures are with the top of the bullet lodged against the top of the barrel. Occasionally a round gets stuck halfway into the barrel and dents the case of the round.
Ejection is overly strong with the factory recoil spring. I have measured some rounds making it 22-25 feet away from me.
Smith and Wesson recommended that I try leaving the slide locked back for a few weeks when I called asking if they have considered a stronger recoil spring.. this doesn’t give me much confidence in that they will be able to resolve the issues that I have experienced.
I have ran 200 rounds of Blazer 180 grain, 200 rounds of Sig Elite Performance FMJ 180 grain and 100 rounds of Sig Elite Performance JHP 180 grain ammo through it. All have 1 in 5 failure rate or higher.
I am extremely disappointed with this product.
That is an absolutely fantastic report. I'm sorry to hear that you've had so many problems also. That really helps me though because I was going to try to get the 4.6" and see if it made a difference. Apparently it does not. I can't believe they're willing to lie to you like that. It has to be hundreds of people who have called by now. I've called multiple times myself and I know many other people who have. Such a disappointment.
They had more than enough time to get this thing right before they put it out.
I'm going to pin this comment because it's very valuable.
Thank you!!👍🦃👊
@@theturkeysopinion I have pictures if you would like to see them or use them for anything. They are exactly the same failures as the ones you experienced.
Out of curiosity, do the magazine springs feel soft to you? The first time I loaded the brand new magazines, I thought to myself that it was unusually easy.
Mine found a new home. I cant put up with it.
And yeah, they are a little weak I think.
Im sure there is more than one problem going on.
👍👊🦃
Really ??? Well that now changes what I was going to do .
Uhhggg. I just bought a 4" and had it at the range for first time. Mine jammed exactly like yours did. Round jammed against top portion of chamber.
180 or 230gr didn't matter. And I thought recoil felt to harsh also. Made my 4505 feel like butter when I shot it afterwards.
ARRRGGGG
I think I'm done with SW for anything from now on. Even revolvers.
Not the same company that made my 4505.
My son has the XDM 10mm, no problems. Should have taken his advice.
I had the same issues and changed the rod and spring to the Wolff 22 pound. I had no issues afterwards with Underwood 220 cast, 200 cast, 140 penetrator, and Hollow 155 grain. All I use in my weapons is Underwood.
Update: I called Smith & Wesson again today... I asked them again if they had heard of this problem yet. They of course told me NOPE they have never heard of this. I was the 1st person to report it. Darn...my luck must stink.😶
If you all are having this problem I encourage you to light the phones up! They have no idea this problem is going on! Please help them! Those poor souls....
Heck, point out some TH-cam videos lol!
I know you said you didn't want to send it in but maybe it's best to see if the find something wrong with this pistol?
Any updates from S&W on the fully loaded magazine rattle?
S&W has a lifetime warranty
Other vids on TH-cam revealed the same type of feed problems that you've been having. As I stated in my previous posting, this is why I decided to stick with the G20 instead of going with the SW. Hopefully, SW will work out the bugs. Can't properly deal with a charging grizzly with an unreliable piece, I don't care how ergonomically superior the MPs are to the Glocks.
I just want it to be known that they blatantly LIE to their customers all day long...... They will lie and lie and lie. Divert ,lie ,lie. Give the run around ,lie...
Idk,,,, picked up the full size 2.0 10mm and have only used federal 180s at 1250fps,,,,no malfunction from mine yet....
You’re failure to feed has nothing to do with the way you are holding that pistol. The slide is cycling faster than the mag can push the next round up into it behind the extractor. Had a glock 30S that had the exact same failure to feed. The tighter I griped the pistol , the worst it got . Holding the frame rigid actually increases the slide to frame cycle rate. Slowing the slide speed down with a heavier spring may help a little , but you need to get a fair amount heavier mag spring to push the rounds up faster.
BTW , Smith saying they never heard of this is a bunch of crap. I would like to comment on the quality of there current production , but I will bit my tongue and just say they are on my do not buy list.
Yep got 2 glock 20s will do the same thing with full power ammo. If I barely hold the pistol with one hand it ftf less. Your absolutely right the slide cycles to fast the harder you grip it the more it malfunctions. I just shoot mid power ammo now and both operate 100% reliable.
Lol. Yeah, they are slippin.
Interesting about the glock 30.
Physics are a crazy thing. I don't know what's harder, timing a wheel gun perfectly from scratch or trying to figure out the physics of a semi automatic slide reciprocation.
They are definitely gonna be on my probationary list for a while. I used to jump all over their new products just like this one but I think I'll be a little bit more hesitant now. The 12 gauge, the 10 mm, and let's see how the CSX does.
Thanks for watching!
Exactly my thoughts on these malfunctions too. I would say a heavier mag spring would be the better solution than a heavier slide spring because the pistol needs to accommodate a wide range of ammo, including low power rounds which may struggle with a heavy slide spring.
I would agree. I would up-spring the magazine springs as the next step in diagnosis.
I'm not so certain it is the spring in this case. I just compared this mag. with round in it to my 4505. I think the design of the mag is at fault.
The feed angle of the round seems to be too much. MUCH more angle to the round in this mag than compared to my 45. And coincidentally my feed issues are the round is stuck in the upper part of the chamber.
I really appreciate all the money you've spent on ammo to keep us informed. I have to say that you saved me from purchasing a S&W MP 2.0 10mm. I live in heavily populated grizzly country in N. Montana. I had researched the G20 and based on all the reviews purchased one less than a month ago on gunbroker for a good price. Before the gun was even shipped, I learned that SW was getting ready to release the new MP 10mm's on the market. I love the ergonomics and features of the SW well over that of the G20, so I thought I'd list the G20 when it arrived and go with the SW, UNTIL reviewing your videos on the SW 10mm and seeing all the malfunctions with heavier rounds. NOT ACCEPTABLE especially in grizzly country. Further research on the G20 shows much greater reliability with the heavy hard cast rounds, ergo, I'm sticking with the G20. Perhaps SW will someday work out the bugs on the new piece.
Im with you brother👊 you gotta have dependability.
I'm glad I could help!
Thats exactly why i decided to post it!
Thanks for watching!!
Did you switch barrels for hardcast?
I recommend testing your glock 20s thoroughly with the full power ammo . I couldn't get mine to run reliably on full power ammo. I'm in wyoming all around Yellowstone and finally settled on buffalo bore mono metal. It's mid power and works with fresh mags. Just beware as your mags age and get dirty from tumbling around the mountains they feed slower causing problems with anything more powerful than the mono metal. Wondering up on a grizzly kill the last thing I wanna be thinking is will it work. I'll take a little less power and 100% reliability everytime over the max loaded underwood.
@@theturkeysopinion Well, not yet. It seems from all my research that the Underwood 220gr hard cast has better foot pound energy over the buffalo bore 220gr by about 200 pounds greater. Interestingly, the owner of Buffalo Bore has posted a statement on his website debunking the misconception of shooting hard cast through the Glock OEM polyg. bores. This is based on the fact that hard cast contains no lead therefore will not clog the bore. They do fly straight too, not keyhole. That still doesn't mitigate the issue of the Glock OEM barrels not supporting the lower case and allegedly being the possible causation for Glocks to periodically go kaboom. Nevertheless, I'd like added velocity over my OEM barrel, so I'm considering a 6" or 6.5" L2D make non-threaded barrel. They seem to make the feed ramps set very closely and below the nose of the next awaiting round to be fed, and their ramps are really finely polished. They are not cheap, but you get what you pay for. God Bless
@@rockie307 Absolutely. Thanks for the info brother. Stay warm down there in the lower half.
@@richardkotz7561 I thought the same too; hard cast over mon-metal. But mon-metal appears to have better penetration. I am also leaning towards Underwood extreme pen. over both.
Can you add an optic to see if the added mass on the slide will fix this issue.
Sorry, she's gone. But I wouldnt bother anyway. I dont use them so it wouldnt matter to me 🤷♂️
Thanks for watching!👍🦃👊
There's been my experience that normally if it's a well built firearm which it's a Smith and Wesson weapon that shouldn't have that problem anyway it's usually the magazines . Obviously your mileage may vary !
That may definitely be the case
What's the reason for this test 🤔
The XDM 10 mm looks sweet in your last video. I wish there was a hogue grip for it. Have you found which backstrap feels the best on it? I was looking at extra mags and noticed it comes with 3 different kinds
I went with #2. I have thick hands but not large hands. Short fat fingers. #3 would leave me less than ideal holding one handed. Extended mag w/#2 extention filler on the way!
Thanks for watching!
Thank you for keeping at it and doing follow-up videos.
Doing that pretty much allowed narrowing it down to a likely magazine spring issue. If you just did a "one and done" video like a lot of firearms channels, there would have been no answers.
Excellent stuff. Have you considered a Patreon? Because I'd be ready to support your channel.
Glad you like it! Thanks for following along! I enjoy spreading info! We need to help each other out since we are all the beta testers. 😕
I am considering something like Patreon . I'm not sure yet. But people seem to like the channel so I'm going to keep going with it. It does get spendy quick ! I appreciate the comments!
I'm not so certain it is the spring in this case. I just compared this mag. with round in it to my 4505. I think the design of the mag is at fault.
The feed angle of the round seems to be too much. MUCH more angle to the round in this mag than compared to my 45. And coincidentally my feed issues are the round is stuck in the upper part of the chamber.
So When are you going to run some 10mm federal HSTs through your S&W 2.O 4in ???
When i find em!! Hard to get here.👍👊🦃
The last round in the chamber has the least amount of spring tension on the follower. Stronger mag spring would help. I'm surprised it didn't fail with the initial milder rounds. The mild rounds gave the mag a chance to keep up with the slide. The hottest round was probably just luck that the last round chambered. Same magazine for each test?
I think you are right. I keep going back-and-forth between both magazines. I make sure to give them 50/50 love
Failure of last round to chamber is due to a weak magazine spring. Mag spring problem is made worse with a strong recoil spring. The mag has to get the round up in time for the fast return of the slide. I have seen weak mag springs in new S&W magazines.
@@theturkeysopinion The two failures with the 180 Gr Sig V-Crown JHP that I had were with 5 left in mag, and other time had 9 left. My wrist condition for sure could have played a role, as my left/support hand was so sore/injured, that I couldn't even hang on with that hand. But no issues with right hand, and nothing else failed (187 total rounds). I wish now I knew now if the failures were both with the same mag. Kicking myself for not noting it, because I usually do keep track of that stuff. Will pay attention moving forward.
Mag spring is too weak for whatever reason, so on the last round where it is near fully extended it can't push the round up fast enough. Try replacing the factory spring with a Wolff +5% power mag spring, it should run flawless.
Yeah, i think you are right!
I'm not so certain it is the spring in this case. I just compared this mag. with round in it to my 4505. I think the design of the mag is at fault.
The feed angle of the round seems to be too much. MUCH more angle to the round in this mag than compared to my 45. And coincidentally my feed issues are the round is stuck in the upper part of the chamber.
My guess is weak mag springs. Had the same issue with a P227 running the 14 round mags. Ran range ammo just fine but as soon as you started using hotter self defense ammo it would fail to feed just like you were getting. Internet fix was to put in some Wolff mag springs that were designed for a double stack Para-Ordinance 1911. Once I did that it ran anything without a hiccup. Hotter ammo cycles the slide faster and the weak mag spring is not strong enough to present the next round properly before the slide starts heading back into the battery. That's the theory and at least my testing of the P227 seems to have born that out.
Good info! Thanks!!
I hate tweaking 😬
But sometimes you gotta!
@@theturkeysopinion Same here. I have a Magnum Research 1911 in 10mm that goes bang every time. Love it.
Is there a company that makes different springs for the 4” model?
Probably wolff👊👍🦃
@@theturkeysopinion I checked and I couldn’t find any there
@@theturkeysopinion Actually found one from Galloway Precision don’t know if I’m allowed to link the product but they have one for the 4” and one for the 4.6” model
Not sure if it's coincidence but I believe the videos by others with no issue cycling all had 4.6 inch barrel instead of the 4 inch?
This poor guy had malfunction issues with the 4.6
th-cam.com/video/iugf76rPm3c/w-d-xo.html
🤔
I was not going to buy that version but now I'm thinking about... Just because I'm curious now.
Darn it ,lol
Thank you for doing this test !
My pleasure! Thanks for watching!
BTW , if you haven’t already removed the flared mag well yet on the Springfield, you may try that as it is way more comfortable to shoot with the hot Underwood & Buffalo Bore rounds :)
have you shot any hardcast ammo out of your Springfield?
I did! Its much better. 15 rounder on the way too!
Will the longer barrel make a difference with recoil the 4.6 version ?
It may just a bit. That was the one that I wanted but I could never find it in stock anywhere. It's still pretty hard to find. That one seems to have less problems altogether👊👍🦃
Just for kicks, has anyone tried to polish the feed ramp. I also have seen a comment on another tubers vid, that there was a slight bur, left from the machining process, on the top side of the chamber. The rounds were getting snagged when entering the chamber. His failure to feed problem was apparently corrected by minimally chamfering the top edge of the chamber entry way... might be worth looking into. Im no gunsmith but if i run into this problem it would be the first thing I check for. Hope this helps!
Everything appeared smooth on mine but I did see that video. Mine found a new home. I wasn't really into messing with it after Smith wanted to lie to me...
That really aggravated me.
I might revisit it someday.🦃👊👍
New subscriber following your 10mm journey.
Ive come to conclusion weak mag spring may be culprit.
Simple test would be shimming within base plate slightly creating more spring tension.
Hmm maybe 40 spring might get job done.
Anyway thanks much for putting out this content , it's much needed.
Thanks for watching! Glad you like it!👍👊🦃 good idea!
I see two problems with the gun. The first is to echo what Roy said about two weeks ago: That gun appears to be under-sprung for full power 10mm. As he stated, the slide velocity is so fast that it will begin to cause malfunctions and holding the gun tighter will increase the slide velocity even more. The fact that the gun cycles and locks open when limp wristed with very light ammo is an indication that the spring is too light. The extreme muzzle flip captured in some of your freeze frames is also indicative of the slide impacting the frame with excessive velocity, which drives the muzzle higher during the recoil motion. It would appear this gun has been calibrated for optimal performance with ammo loaded to 40 cal power. The second problem I see is the feed lips on the magazine. It doesn't look like they support even half the length of the round. If the feed lips don't support enough length of the round, then the feed lips will let the round point too high. To put these two problems together, the excessive slide velocity is causing a very large shock when the slide impacts the frame of the gun, which causes large inertial effects on the round feeding from the magazine. Since the feed lips are so short, they are unable to prevent the next round from pointing too high and running into the top of the barrel hood. My guess is to truly fix the design all the way, S&W needs to lengthen the feed lips, increase recoil spring weight, and add more mass to the slide (further reduce slide velocity).
The original M&P (9 and 40) was under-sprung when it first came out also. The 2.0 changed to a heavier recoil spring and increased the locking engagement between the barrel and slide (scrubs additional slide velocity as the barrel unlocks during recoil). The difference between the original and 2.0 can easily be felt when shooting the 40 cal versions. However they do it, let's hope S&W adjusts the 10mm to be as reliable as the other calibers.
Wow!! Totally correct on all points imo.
Great comment!
You should send smith all of that in an email!!👊👍🦃
@@theturkeysopinion I’m not sure it would mean much to Smith coming from me, but you are welcome to copy and paste my comment into an email to them, since you’re already dealing with them.
APEX is soon to release an FRE (Failure Resistant Extractor) for this. I have tested this part myself as part of a pre-production test. I can honestly say that it makes a world of difference in reliability. Thru about 400rds of varying type, I haven't had any issues with this gun after the FRE install. My 4" model had issues with EVERYTHING. DIdn't matter the strength or bullet type used.
Nice! Thats interesting🦃👊👍
I"m almost beginning to wonder if this is some sort of mag issue honestly. S&W usually makes quality guns and if it was something more major I'd like to think they'd of caught it before they released it. So I guess the question is have you tried a stronger mag spring to see if it helps?
I have not tried that yet. But i do think it is a possibility it does contribute. I'm not sure if it is a stand alone problem or not.
Thanks for watching!!
If the ammo is hollow point, it may be catching on the edge of the ramp going into the barrel. S&W had to bevel the edge of all the 4013’s that were purchased by my organization many years ago. Just a thought.
It has done it on flat point and Hollow point. 😬
So.. is it a mag problem or recoil spring,or maybe feed ramp? 🤔 Can you recommend this pistol?
I'm not sure exactly what it is yet. I think it's a conglomeration of problems.
I personally would not recommend the 4" to anybody that I care about..
If somebody did have it that I cared about I would definitely buy them the critical duty that it seems to like.
I'm wondering if a 4.6" different for me
I'm kind of looking for one
@@theturkeysopinion Do it. I think that your methodological approach to testing is engaging viewers and will continue to help your channel grow. I also bought the same 4" and I am living vicariously through your testing 😁
So it could be a weak mag spring? Especially since it was on the last round and the spring is at its weakest point?
OK at this point I want to compare Glock 20 mag spring to Smith’s.
I think you are correct
Get an Springfield XDM Elite 10mm and you will be more than happy. I got one and so far it's very stable.
I have one! Video is up. Check it out!
Thanks for watching!
😎😎
I'm no expert but it sure seemed most of the malfunctions you had while testing from previous videos was with the nose of the round wedged up into the top of the chamber. Also you had double feeds while pushing the rounds out by hand. Curious as if the feed lips on the mags aren't good enough under stout recoil or if a heavier mag spring would rectify the issue.
I think those are valid areas of concern for sure! The spring does seem week compared to the xdm 😕
I think the angle on the feed lips is the culprit. Too much of angle, causing it to jam against the upper portion of the chamber.
I think it's great that you're entertaining all possibilities with regards to the malfunctions. You're a better man than I, because I wouldn't have done this test. Your normal grip appears pretty damn solid. That's not what's causing the problems. Your gun - it may or may not affect other 10mm's - isn't dependable at this point. I imagine the problems are more widespread, but S&W may choose not to admit it. My guess is the next iteration of 10mm's will be fixed if they continue with this line.
Glad you like it! I should hope they make some revisions! But you are correct it could be isolated even to the 4" guns..
I just never see a 4.6 anywhere around me.
I so want to like this pistol 🤔. My son has a Springfield Armory XDM 40 3.8" and ergonomically I don't like it one bit. My M&P 2.0 9C is a nice fit for my hands and other full sized M&P's I've tried fit real well. Are these tests with the factory main spring or the aftermarket/modified/convoluted/tweaked main spring? What is the round count on it now?
This is the original recoil spring. The other one was just a test piece. I would never trust it so I wouldn't keep it in there.
The XDM will take some getting used to you after being on the Smith for so long.
But the XDM elite was flawless in my test! Gotta give it a fair go now as edc.
Making a holster now!
I love 10mm and have been curious about this firearm.
10 mm is the best millimeter! I love M&P 2.0 and even 1.0 in ALL calibers. BUT, the screwed this one up pretty good.
I just cannot believe that they did not put this thing through rigorous testing. I figured the whole reason they haven't put it out for so long is because they couldn't get it right. 😕😕
@@theturkeysopinion I’ve shot a shield before and liked it. I’m not familiar enough with them to have my own opinion. I’ve ran a Glock 19 for awhile and am confident with it. Sometimes you need a little more punch.
You know, I’m willing to bet it’s a mag spring thing. I think it choked on the last and second before last in your other vids.
I think it is definitely part, if not all of it.
I still want that gun but not with the quality control that's coming out of Smith & Wesson right now. Please keep it up I have turned all my friends onto your channel I like the honest opinion. Great work
They need to have a staff meeting lol.
And thank you! It is much appreciated! Ill try to keep delivering!
I really wanted the Smith and Wesson, but I'm buying the Springfield elite 10mm.
Put it this way.. I'm keeping my XDM
I know somebody else that's gonna have to find a new home
Don't know what S and W did testing the 10mm but I know Springfield did a 10000 round torture test on the full size XDM 10mm supposedly without a failure. Another reason I bought the Elite
Sounds like a 12 gauge :)
Enjoy your presentations. Cheers 👍
Glad you like it! Thanks for watching.
Yeah that reverberates a little bit lol
Looks to me like you're having a classic "3 point jam". The fact that you can smack the mag base a have the gun go into battery suggest to me that the barrel probably needs some work on the feed ramp/chamber throat area. I would suggest sending it back to big blue.
That's what they want me to do but somebody took it off of my hands...
I will let them work out their problems and pick it up again down the road
@@theturkeysopinion I don't blame you. I've had enough issues with Big Blue CS since Saf-T-Hamhands took over the company.
I think when you limp wrist, it helps take energy out of the slide. Acting as a heaver recoil spring. I think that is why it ran that last mag. I also have noticed with my m&p 10mm, that all my fail feeds tend to snag up on the loaded chamber indication sighting hole. Next time you have a bind, look at exactly where the round is contacting. Ive had to modify my barrel, and it works better.
I think you are right 👍🦃👊
I think the feed lip angle on the mags is too steep.
How did you modify the barrel?
And you say "better" , does this mean not 100% but only jams 20%?
@@rockymntdan1 i laid the ramp back reducing the angle and chamfered or rounded all sharp corners, also i chamfered the hood of the chamber where the brass viewing hole is, the nose of my rounds seemed to snag on that point regularly if i was using loads over about 1150 fps. But after that i would say it only had a 3 point bind every other mag. But then i got the spring kit. And installed the 22lb spring, that further helped it. Seems rare that it binds anymore. But i haven’t got to shoot it much after going to the heavier spring. Note i have the 4” model.
@@Swagmoney696 Cool, you did some work on it. If I have to go this far this will be good notes for me to take to the gunsmith.
Thanks
I'm starting with the simple, magazine fixes, and cross my fingers.
@@rockymntdan1 what are the mag fixes? Just a spring?
That is the combination of a magazine spring, follower and limp wrist issue.
👍
What about is you put a little oil on the cartridges so they don't get stuck? (JK) I have no idea what is the problem there looks to be the feed ramp and the recoil spring.
I believe limp wristing is the problem. In the case with the hot rounds limp wristing is helping it cycle. I think it needs a stiffer recoil spring for the hotter rounds.
I think it does as well.
But in addition to mag spring and maybe a follower rework?
@@theturkeysopinion A little stiffer magazine spring probably wouldn't hurt. Ypu might try stretching the magazine spring out a little and see if that helps.. I not sure about the follower though.
I'm still impressed
👍
Impressed by what?
@@jammerlr7780 they M&P. DAH
@@ronhunt9396 Lol! Ok…
Lol that flat nose ammo will jam in about any gun
Actually no. That is how most 40 and 10 is made. 357 sig also.
Good Video!
Thanks!! Appreciate you watching!
its because its a thinner grip
Not by much
🤔hmm. You may have a point!
But its also much " flippier" ... i know , i said flippier
problem is that during a self defense situation, limp wristing is very likely..
This is TRUE!!!!
Have you contacted smith and Wesson?
Yes, we have a video on that! 👍
Or some Buffalo Bores?
That would be nice. Hopefully soon!👍👊🦃
The MP 10mm has more recoil than my XDM 10mm 3.8 and 5.25 inch barrels and G20. It has a lighter slide but will not jam is a good grip is used. Remember this is not a beginner caliber , 10mm is an expert level cartridge. If you want easy shooting , cut the power in half and use the tiny 9mm. The lowest recoil in 10mm is my Ruger SR 1911 10mm; all steel , heavy but more accurate than any polymer pistol and has soft recoil. You cannot change the laws of physics, lighter means more recoil.
You should check out our other videos on the Smith! It's put it through a heck of a test!👊🦃👍
It’s not a curse there is a fix and it’s not a miracle some have zero problems with this same gun.
👊🦃👍
Probably those glasses
My gas station Oakleys? Man, things are bright out here in the desert. 👊
There is no way a new S&W came out without a problem. Wait...
My Glock 20’s (Gen 3, Gen3 SF and Gen 4) nor my Glock 29 ever give a FTF due to a limp wrist. I don’t think the new M&P 10mm is malfunctioning due to a “limp wrist.” S&W needs to work the bugs out. It’s something they should have done BEFORE putting the gun on the market.
Agreed. Its something they would have caught anyway you would think.
Smh.
My guess would be Fit and finish , would not trust that firearm,.
I do not. Its gone. 😒
You are correct sir. Your the fifth tester to have multiple jams.
😕 not good...
Such a long awaited fail...
Interesting.
It is. Although aggravating too. It was another gift of 2021
Maybe Smith & Wesson should make an EZ line for shooters who don't hold their pistols properly. Maybe invest in training, your limp wrist pain will go away. I definitely would choose Smith over Springfield. Springfield is as anti 2nd Amendment as they come!
Looks like it hurt's ✅
It did! Not the round you want to hold like a baby. 😬
I don't understand... First of all if you have a limp wrist this is not the gun for you FACT...If your a limp wrist person I would suggest the m&p EZ model 380 or 9mm it doesn't matter the EZ models are made for people who has low strength...
Personally, I really love yiur reviews. So don't you go and hurt, yourself. That gun, is s Bad M✌tha❗❗
Thank you!! Yeah, i need to keep my wrists 😕
May I once again suggest a G20? LOL!!!!
I'm going to revisit it again. I would like to try the 29 but maybe I will try the glock 20 again. I bought at once and had many failure to feed issues. A bunch of my friends informed me of a lot of work I would have to do to get it Running reliably. I traded it for something I liked better. I will put it through the same ammo gauntlet that I put these 2 guns through
Why gang bang style and so close?
It is a limp wrist test. "Gang bang style" breaks the elbow and allows for more uncontrolled flipping around.
I'm so close so i don't miss my backstop...I'm not trying to bullseye shoot here
Thanks for watching!