I purchased my first 317 in 1987 brand new. It is obviously a Series I. I still have it and it is completely original (engine perfect and no smoke) with countless hours of mowing, tilling, loader, and towing. I now have three others. My second one with Series I was in a flood and I purchased it at auction as a "Parts Tractor" for $500.00. However, I was able to get it going and ran it for a couple of years but it smoked (consumed oil). It did the typical blow-up during off-camber mowing. They do not blow the main bearing, they blow the first rod bearing when it becomes starved of oil. The rod breaks and usually damages the case (I have been doing 317s for 34 years). IF you change oil and do not do off-camber work with your Series I, you will never have a problem. I replaced the blown engine in #2 with a used Series II and gave it a honing and new Kohler standard rings. That was in 1995. It runs perfectly today with regular oil changes and no smoke (tilling and loader work). #3 was a no-engine parts tractor for which I purchased a brand new JD Short Block Series II for and it still sits as a project. #4 was nonrunning with a nearly brand new Briggs Vanguard Conversion with rear PTO and came with a two-extensions JD Tiller. It turned out it was the typical seat switch not working and each time the PTO was engaged the tractor stopped. It took me less than one hour to fix. I highly recommend this conversion to anyone with a blown or tired Kohler due to the cost of rebuilding a Series I or Series II. I use it for towing, off-camber work with loader, plowing, tilling, and all of the hardest work on my farm. It is bulletproof and has a spin-on oil filter. All three running tractors have had no failures other than PTO bearings (rear PTO), points, and engine tins cracking and needing to be welded. I love these tractors and they are extremely rugged (even with a Series I). The "Litle Buck Loader" installs in just two minutes and will make your tractor one hell of a workhorse.
That's pretty impressive for being a Series I Kohler in your first John Deere 317! I truly appreciate you sharing your collection and experience on Kohler KT17's with me! I completely agree that a Series I can be a hazard down the line, but in your case you're having quite some luck. The Series II you have in you 2nd machine must have been a great engine to start off with and the engine work has paid off as well. Your 4th machine with the V-Twin conversion is very popular since many don't tinker with the old engines...It seems that is also a very solid machine and it will outlast all of your 317's haha. The other tractors you have as "project tractors" are always good to have. It gives you something to work with and if you don't feel like rebuilding them, you can easily use the parts if any other tractors would ever need them! The John Deere 300/400 Series from back in the day are very robust and they will get a LOT OF WORK done (if maintained properly), with different attachments. Thank you once again for sharing you thoughts and experience!!! Best regards
I was thinking of making a video about this. I see several things that are misleading. The cam is not interchangeable between them. The series one had issues either when it was brand new or after using it on hillsides. I had a 317 series 1, it smoked, and the hour meter said over 4000hrs, and it looked like it. I replaced the breather valve and hose, and it was back to mowing.
Hi there, I think it would be great if you would shed more light on this topic. The camshafts I had in this video were identical from the mesurements, so technically speaking they could be interchanged wihtout any issues. I'm not sure what issues these KT17's straight out of the factory. Maybe they were poorly assembled and certain parts weren't seated properly. On the other hand everyone states these engines had issues on hillsides and reason for that is the poor lubrication to the second main bearing (flywheel side). I shared talk about the oil passageways in this video at minute 07:53 : th-cam.com/video/ztP2XUoG62Q/w-d-xo.html. If you want to know more about this engine there is a great article on this website that explains this in depth: gardentractorpullingtips.com/engine.htm After 4000hours many engines need a major service. If you only had to replace your reed valve, then you're pretty lucky! I'm glad to hear that your engine is still up and running until this day. Maybe Kohler already optimized your KT17 internally to a KT17 Series II. Thanks for your comment and have a great day. Regards Andreas
thank you for explaining the difference between early and later series 2 blocks....I have 2 of these engines, both with series 2 sheetmetal, and suspected one of them was a series 1 by seeing the set screw by the dipstick, the other one has the block off plate there...Everything else Ive seen says all series 2s had the block off plate, but i guess thats not the case...now ill have to take a look at the serial and confirm it is an earlier build.
You are more than welcome! The Series 2 had the casting for an external oil filter, but I came to a conclusion that Kohler may have used some Series1 blocks for early Series 2 engines. This may have been a way to get around costs in the transition stage. By the way, the internals of the Series 1 and 2 are identical, the difference is just in the Crankshaft, Camshaft and most likely the material for the oil pump gear. Best regards
Thank you for your feedback! As of right now, I do not have a video on the differences between the KT Series 2 and a Magnum Series. I will keep that in mind if I come across a Magnum engine. Best regards
Hello I love your channel! I have watched all of you jd restorations they are beautifully documented. I myself have a 855 as well as a 317 which I use currently on my property. My question for you is regarding my 317 has a series 2 in it, after running it will backfire on next start after if it doesn’t sit long. Should I be addressing carb mixture issues or stuck valves? It runs decent once running but had sat a bit before I got it.
Hi Greg, thank you for sharing such kind words! You have yourself great John Deere tractors and even though they are a little bit older, you can get so much done with them. If you have a backfiring issue, you could be running your engine too rich. Most backfiring issues are caused by too much fuel and not enough air, flowing through your intake. Before you make any adjustments, you should remove your spark plugs, to see what condition they are in. Your mixture is too rich, you spark plugs will be dark brown or even totally black. Here is a great website I found that will give you a visual reference to this matter: www.lazerhelmets.com/lean-spark-plug-chart/ If your plugs are black, you will want to clean them up with some scotch brite or with a wire brush. After that thread them back in and adjust your main fuel needle clockwise. This adjustment should be made when your engine is warm (roughly after 10-15mins). Once your carburetor adjustment feels good and you don't experience any backfiring, you can check your spark plugs after a few days of use. If they are more clean, than your engine is running healthy. I hope this will help you with your John Deere 317. Let me know if this solves your problem. Regards Andreas
The oil travels from the first bearing to the second bearing via the camshaft. On the series 1 (in my case, the camshaft had a plug at the end which did not allow oil to transfer to the second main bearing!). Maybe they wanted more pressure going through the camshaft to spray down onto the connecting rods. On the Series 2 the camshaft was bored straight through, which allowed oil to flow down into the second main bearing. After that, the oil worked it's way back into the bottom of the block. I hope this helps! If you have any other questions feel free to ask. Best regards
I have the series1 in my 1981 317. bought it in April it has 2197 hours and still is runing great! if one can last 40 years than what is the big stink of it? It never smokes and has plenty of power.
Wow, that's amazing! Any small tractor that has 2200hrs is fantastic! There isn't such a big issue with the Kohler Series 1, but the Series 2 is more preferable. If your tractor is still running well and it still does what it's supposed to, keep it maintained. It's always nice to hear that these tractors are still working out for others! It just shows how well they are built. Best regards
the series 1s were known to throw rods if operated on hills alot, causes oil starvation. theyre not bad engines, but thats basically what kills them and why they got such a bad rep.
Recently purchased two 917 allis chalmers...have one series one and one series two. Both need engine work (s1 has no compression in one cylinder and s2 smokes alot overheats easy and has little to no power).
Very nice looking tractors and they were built very well too. Too bad your Kohler KT17's have an issue. I hope out of the two you can make one good running tractor and possibly upgrade another. Best regards
Series 2 has an oil filter! or a plate covering where the assembly would be. In a 317 Deere made the customer add the remote filter kit. Cub and Bolens did it for them.
That's a good observation. It is correct that multiple Series 2 engines had the spin-on oil filter adapter directly on the housing, but it was not on all of them! Best Regards
Thank You for these videos...........a ton of information. If mine is a series 1 . Can the cam be drilled out by a machine shop to the right size diameter to deliver the oil ???????? or would I have to replace it ????? can I even buy a cam like the series 2 ?????? Is there measurements that have to be taken into consideration to see it cam is worn beyond repair ??????? the link you added to one of these videos ......that guy is only about a 1 1/2 from me I'm thinking on driving down to see him
You're more than welcome and Thank you!! If your cam has too much play I would be worried if the housing is damaged or wore out! The camshaft itself on the Series 1 had a little plug on the end (in my case), which I was able to tap out. If you need to drill yours out, yes a machine shop will be able to do it! The size I would recommend is 7/16" which is what I measure on mine. That will give you sufficient oil for the second bearing. If you have any other questions, let me know. Best regards
the plug in a series 1 has an orafice to meter oil to bearing on main, if they would have cross drilled the crank in the first place they would not of had a problem
What’s funny is thT before this they have been making the K-Series engines since the early 60s up till the 317/80s & somehow after all that they forgot how to make an engine. I think after that they probably improved the testing quality to help prevent this failure in the future.
@@michaelbenoit248 You are very correct! They did miss the lubrication issue and still went on to produce a large number of Series 1 engines! The sure did learn a lesson! Best regards
I’m theory you could fix a series 1, but in the end it’s not worth it at all. Personally I wouldn’t rebuild any KT-17 even if it’s a series 2 just because of the bad reputation the KT-17 has. I think all 317 owners are just better off getting a decent used Honda or Vanguard twin to rebuild & put in place of the Kt-17.
Yes, the Series 1 can be modified to a Series 2 engine (technically speaking). The Series 2 is a well-built engine and despite the reputation, I believe it is worth rebuilding. Honda engines and Vanguard engines are known to be very reliable and that would be a great option if a Series 1 or 2 is in very bad condition! Thanks for your ideas/thoughts, I really appreciate it. Best regards
The series 2 that I rebuilt was blowing oil had 2 used pistons installed plus 2 exhaust valves replaced not an easy engine to assemble but totally worth my time and 500$ it had 7600 hours on it runs like a sewing machine now!
Actually the Series 2 Kohlers are one of the best and most reliable engines ever built in these tractors. In fact they have been known to go well over 5,000 hours and even the series 1 was known to get to a lot of hours if it was taken care of and not mowed on hills.
I purchased my first 317 in 1987 brand new. It is obviously a Series I. I still have it and it is completely original (engine perfect and no smoke) with countless hours of mowing, tilling, loader, and towing. I now have three others. My second one with Series I was in a flood and I purchased it at auction as a "Parts Tractor" for $500.00. However, I was able to get it going and ran it for a couple of years but it smoked (consumed oil). It did the typical blow-up during off-camber mowing. They do not blow the main bearing, they blow the first rod bearing when it becomes starved of oil. The rod breaks and usually damages the case (I have been doing 317s for 34 years). IF you change oil and do not do off-camber work with your Series I, you will never have a problem. I replaced the blown engine in #2 with a used Series II and gave it a honing and new Kohler standard rings. That was in 1995. It runs perfectly today with regular oil changes and no smoke (tilling and loader work). #3 was a no-engine parts tractor for which I purchased a brand new JD Short Block Series II for and it still sits as a project. #4 was nonrunning with a nearly brand new Briggs Vanguard Conversion with rear PTO and came with a two-extensions JD Tiller. It turned out it was the typical seat switch not working and each time the PTO was engaged the tractor stopped. It took me less than one hour to fix. I highly recommend this conversion to anyone with a blown or tired Kohler due to the cost of rebuilding a Series I or Series II. I use it for towing, off-camber work with loader, plowing, tilling, and all of the hardest work on my farm. It is bulletproof and has a spin-on oil filter. All three running tractors have had no failures other than PTO bearings (rear PTO), points, and engine tins cracking and needing to be welded. I love these tractors and they are extremely rugged (even with a Series I). The "Litle Buck Loader" installs in just two minutes and will make your tractor one hell of a workhorse.
That's pretty impressive for being a Series I Kohler in your first John Deere 317! I truly appreciate you sharing your collection and experience on Kohler KT17's with me! I completely agree that a Series I can be a hazard down the line, but in your case you're having quite some luck. The Series II you have in you 2nd machine must have been a great engine to start off with and the engine work has paid off as well. Your 4th machine with the V-Twin conversion is very popular since many don't tinker with the old engines...It seems that is also a very solid machine and it will outlast all of your 317's haha. The other tractors you have as "project tractors" are always good to have. It gives you something to work with and if you don't feel like rebuilding them, you can easily use the parts if any other tractors would ever need them! The John Deere 300/400 Series from back in the day are very robust and they will get a LOT OF WORK done (if maintained properly), with different attachments. Thank you once again for sharing you thoughts and experience!!! Best regards
Great video! Lots of good information here.
Thank you very much! I'll have a rebuild video on the KT17 Series 2 as well in the near future, so stay tuned :)
Thanks for the video breakdown of the differences! Well done!
You're more than welcome! Thank you as well. I will upload a video when I rebuild the engine and I will share some more information then. Best regards
I was thinking of making a video about this. I see several things that are misleading. The cam is not interchangeable between them. The series one had issues either when it was brand new or after using it on hillsides. I had a 317 series 1, it smoked, and the hour meter said over 4000hrs, and it looked like it. I replaced the breather valve and hose, and it was back to mowing.
Hi there, I think it would be great if you would shed more light on this topic. The camshafts I had in this video were identical from the mesurements, so technically speaking they could be interchanged wihtout any issues. I'm not sure what issues these KT17's straight out of the factory. Maybe they were poorly assembled and certain parts weren't seated properly.
On the other hand everyone states these engines had issues on hillsides and reason for that is the poor lubrication to the second main bearing (flywheel side). I shared talk about the oil passageways in this video at minute 07:53 : th-cam.com/video/ztP2XUoG62Q/w-d-xo.html.
If you want to know more about this engine there is a great article on this website that explains this in depth: gardentractorpullingtips.com/engine.htm
After 4000hours many engines need a major service. If you only had to replace your reed valve, then you're pretty lucky! I'm glad to hear that your engine is still up and running until this day. Maybe Kohler already optimized your KT17 internally to a KT17 Series II. Thanks for your comment and have a great day. Regards Andreas
thank you for explaining the difference between early and later series 2 blocks....I have 2 of these engines, both with series 2 sheetmetal, and suspected one of them was a series 1 by seeing the set screw by the dipstick, the other one has the block off plate there...Everything else Ive seen says all series 2s had the block off plate, but i guess thats not the case...now ill have to take a look at the serial and confirm it is an earlier build.
You are more than welcome! The Series 2 had the casting for an external oil filter, but I came to a conclusion that Kohler may have used some Series1 blocks for early Series 2 engines. This may have been a way to get around costs in the transition stage. By the way, the internals of the Series 1 and 2 are identical, the difference is just in the Crankshaft, Camshaft and most likely the material for the oil pump gear. Best regards
Well done!
Thank you David! 😃
Thanks for this video. Do you have a video where you discuss the differences between the Series 2 and the Magnum engines?
Thank you for your feedback! As of right now, I do not have a video on the differences between the KT Series 2 and a Magnum Series. I will keep that in mind if I come across a Magnum engine. Best regards
Hello I love your channel! I have watched all of you jd restorations they are beautifully documented. I myself have a 855 as well as a 317 which I use currently on my property. My question for you is regarding my 317 has a series 2 in it, after running it will backfire on next start after if it doesn’t sit long. Should I be addressing carb mixture issues or stuck valves? It runs decent once running but had sat a bit before I got it.
Hi Greg, thank you for sharing such kind words! You have yourself great John Deere tractors and even though they are a little bit older, you can get so much done with them.
If you have a backfiring issue, you could be running your engine too rich. Most backfiring issues are caused by too much fuel and not enough air, flowing through your intake.
Before you make any adjustments, you should remove your spark plugs, to see what condition they are in. Your mixture is too rich, you spark plugs will be dark brown or even totally black. Here is a great website I found that will give you a visual reference to this matter: www.lazerhelmets.com/lean-spark-plug-chart/
If your plugs are black, you will want to clean them up with some scotch brite or with a wire brush. After that thread them back in and adjust your main fuel needle clockwise. This adjustment should be made when your engine is warm (roughly after 10-15mins).
Once your carburetor adjustment feels good and you don't experience any backfiring, you can check your spark plugs after a few days of use. If they are more clean, than your engine is running healthy.
I hope this will help you with your John Deere 317. Let me know if this solves your problem. Regards Andreas
Great video, but how does the oil get from the first bearing to the second bearing on the series 1 and or the series 2.
The oil travels from the first bearing to the second bearing via the camshaft. On the series 1 (in my case, the camshaft had a plug at the end which did not allow oil to transfer to the second main bearing!). Maybe they wanted more pressure going through the camshaft to spray down onto the connecting rods.
On the Series 2 the camshaft was bored straight through, which allowed oil to flow down into the second main bearing. After that, the oil worked it's way back into the bottom of the block.
I hope this helps! If you have any other questions feel free to ask.
Best regards
I have the series1 in my 1981 317. bought it in April it has 2197 hours and still is runing great! if one can last 40 years than what is the big stink of it? It never smokes and has plenty of power.
Wow, that's amazing! Any small tractor that has 2200hrs is fantastic! There isn't such a big issue with the Kohler Series 1, but the Series 2 is more preferable. If your tractor is still running well and it still does what it's supposed to, keep it maintained. It's always nice to hear that these tractors are still working out for others! It just shows how well they are built. Best regards
the series 1s were known to throw rods if operated on hills alot, causes oil starvation. theyre not bad engines, but thats basically what kills them and why they got such a bad rep.
Recently purchased two 917 allis chalmers...have one series one and one series two. Both need engine work (s1 has no compression in one cylinder and s2 smokes alot overheats easy and has little to no power).
Very nice looking tractors and they were built very well too. Too bad your Kohler KT17's have an issue. I hope out of the two you can make one good running tractor and possibly upgrade another. Best regards
Do you rebuild any series 1 engines?
Not commercially, sorry. Regards Andreas
Series 2 has an oil filter! or a plate covering where the assembly would be. In a 317 Deere made the customer add the remote filter kit. Cub and Bolens did it for them.
That's a good observation. It is correct that multiple Series 2 engines had the spin-on oil filter adapter directly on the housing, but it was not on all of them!
Best Regards
@@WorkshopRebuild if not it had a plate that series 1 never had. easiest way to tell the 2 apart.
Cool I knew they had problems but i didn’t know that about the cam shafts
Yes, the camshafts were an issue combined with the crankshaft. I'll share some more tips when I rebuild the engine. Stay tuned :)
Basically I can turn my series 1 to a 2 by replacing CAM, Crank and heads.... True?
Hi there, changing the crankshaft and camshaft will be necessary, but I think the Kohler Series 1 cylinder heads will be just fine.
Regards Andreas
Thank You for these videos...........a ton of information. If mine is a series 1 . Can the cam be drilled out by a machine shop to the right size diameter to deliver the oil ???????? or would I have to replace it ????? can I even buy a cam like the series 2 ?????? Is there measurements that have to be taken into consideration to see it cam is worn beyond repair ??????? the link you added to one of these videos ......that guy is only about a 1 1/2 from me I'm thinking on driving down to see him
You're more than welcome and Thank you!! If your cam has too much play I would be worried if the housing is damaged or wore out! The camshaft itself on the Series 1 had a little plug on the end (in my case), which I was able to tap out. If you need to drill yours out, yes a machine shop will be able to do it! The size I would recommend is 7/16" which is what I measure on mine. That will give you sufficient oil for the second bearing. If you have any other questions, let me know. Best regards
the plug in a series 1 has an orafice to meter oil to bearing on main, if they would have cross drilled the crank in the first place they would not of had a problem
That is correct, thanks for the input:) They really should have done that in the first place...but I guess they figured out the issue pretty quickly.
What’s funny is thT before this they have been making the K-Series engines since the early 60s up till the 317/80s & somehow after all that they forgot how to make an engine.
I think after that they probably improved the testing quality to help prevent this failure in the future.
@@michaelbenoit248 You are very correct! They did miss the lubrication issue and still went on to produce a large number of Series 1 engines! The sure did learn a lesson! Best regards
I’m theory you could fix a series 1, but in the end it’s not worth it at all.
Personally I wouldn’t rebuild any KT-17 even if it’s a series 2 just because of the bad reputation the KT-17 has.
I think all 317 owners are just better off getting a decent used Honda or Vanguard twin to rebuild & put in place of the Kt-17.
Yes, the Series 1 can be modified to a Series 2 engine (technically speaking). The Series 2 is a well-built engine and despite the reputation, I believe it is worth rebuilding. Honda engines and Vanguard engines are known to be very reliable and that would be a great option if a Series 1 or 2 is in very bad condition! Thanks for your ideas/thoughts, I really appreciate it. Best regards
The series 2 that I rebuilt was blowing oil had 2 used pistons installed plus 2 exhaust valves replaced not an easy engine to assemble but totally worth my time and 500$ it had 7600 hours on it runs like a sewing machine now!
Actually the Series 2 Kohlers are one of the best and most reliable engines ever built in these tractors. In fact they have been known to go well over 5,000 hours and even the series 1 was known to get to a lot of hours if it was taken care of and not mowed on hills.