Perfect explanation. You called it why I was watching at first and why I continued watching later. I watched multiple Toro videos and yours was the only one that gave a couple needed details so I could fix my mower. A+ and thank you.
Excellent video. I myself, like you was thinking that it was something more complex. I just got a new Toro PP for Christmas from my kids. While it cuts and mulches very nicely, I'm disappointed with the Personal Pace on this one. My yard has a steep terrace out front and the side yard is on a bit of an incline as well. It won't climb the terrace unless I really push hard to help it along. Even on the slight grade of my side yard it will stop traveling if I hit a patch of tall grass. I did adjust the cable a 1/4", that did help but still not good. I'm gonna give a little more adjustment next time I use it and see if it is corrected. Possibly the belt needs to be broken in. It must be made out of some tough stuff to hold up under the constant slipping. As you pointed out the torque reaction of the transmission works against you and reduces the torque to the wheels just when you need it most. Probably why it won't climb my terrace. There is also the drive side of the belt pulling increasingly forward on the transmission as the load increases, adding to that effect. Another thing on this new one is that the slide handle has to travel around the curve of the newly designed handle bar, requiring more effort than the old straight design. I have a 30 year old Toro PP at my other house and it seems to work fine, although there are no steep hills there.
Something rarely mentioned is the bearing in the gear box between the belt pulley and the pinion gear. Dirt gets into it and causes it to drag and that stops it from rotating freely when pulling the mower backwards. The bearing can be freed with penetrating oil or replaced.
That was an outstanding video. You understand mower systems at a mastery level, and you have added two more needed things to your video. 1- Good camera work, and good lighting which kills most videos on TH-cam and 2- Excellent enunciation. Some of the people who do videos know their material, but you can barely understand a thing they say. Keep it up man. Do many more like this one !
We have two identical mowers. Front drive Toro. One will not roll forward, the other will not roll backward. So far the wheels have a gear with a spring and key. All are well cleaned and oiled. Can't locate info on this. Any ideas ? (Oh and thanks a bunch!)
Long story short the variable speed is achieved by Slipping the belt. BTW ALWAYS buy the proper part number for size of the belt on ANY vari-drive system !
I have a regular push mower and it is hard to push. I took the wheels off to grease the Axels and one of the races stayed on the Axel and it was the first one so I didn't notice it, and I greased the race.
I have gotten one of these given to me that had been setting up for a few years. I cleaned the carburetor and plug and drained the gas and oil and put in fresh, It started on the first pull and I was very impressed with the power of the 6 1/2 hp Engine. The only problem that I have is that the back wheels wobble badly and it is hard to push. I have not replaced the cable that engages the rear drive. Any idea how to fix the wobble on both back wheels? Thanks for any help!
Good Video. I've done these on this type of personal pace toros ans Hondas. But I'm working on a 20092 with the Rocking Key in the drive wheels and can't get this mower to move. The belt is brand new and tight, and all parts in the drive wheels look good. The only thing I can think of is thr transmission is slipping or worn out
I put a grease fitting opposite gear on corner of cover. Fill her up. Did you know same gear box as front drive. You need to take it APPART turn gear other way
yes, it seems this mower is more trouble than it's worth, belt broke the first year, 2nd year the cable broke. Now with the new cable it worked for a while but stopped. The belt is in tact. Rotating the wheels turns the gears and pulling the belt by hand turns the wheels so the gearbox is good. So it's either a tension problem I have or the belt. The belt doesn't seem stretched. I've been trying the last few days to figure this out. If anyone can help me think this through... 1. Belt is in tact (took it off and verified) 2. I removed the cable again and re-attached (just to be sure it wasn't an adjustment issue 3. The gearbox works because when I turn the shaft by hand with the belt the wheels turn 4. I pulled the cable from the top with pliers after disconnecting from the handle side and the mower still didn't move forward. The wheels didn't spin either (I had the back wheels off the ground). I just can't seem to figure this one out. Each component seems to work on it's own
All your doing is slipping the belt to get different speeds. The gears are just powder metal gears. You either fix this stuff yourself or buy a new mower. With labor so high it would cost more to repair with parts and labor if you had a mower shop fix it. Throw away mowers unless you are a DIY. That drive system will last awhile if you clean it up every year and grease it again. Most people don't so when it breaks the parts will likely cost as much as a new mower. Great video on the system BTW.
If the wheel does not turn, there may be mud between the gear teeth. After 15 years, I had to buy a drive belt that was 1/2 inch shorter because the metal pulleys can also wear down and make the belt slip.
Perfect explanation. You called it why I was watching at first and why I continued watching later. I watched multiple Toro videos and yours was the only one that gave a couple needed details so I could fix my mower. A+ and thank you.
Excellent process of elimination and observation !!! Many kudos to you , sir !! I too have a Toro Personal Pace mower and this helps me immensely !
Excellent video. I myself, like you was thinking that it was something more complex.
I just got a new Toro PP for Christmas from my kids. While it cuts and mulches very nicely, I'm disappointed with the Personal Pace on this one. My yard has a steep terrace out front and the side yard is on a bit of an incline as well. It won't climb the terrace unless I really push hard to help it along. Even on the slight grade of my side yard it will stop traveling if I hit a patch of tall grass. I did adjust the cable a 1/4", that did help but still not good. I'm gonna give a little more adjustment next time I use it and see if it is corrected. Possibly the belt needs to be broken in. It must be made out of some tough stuff to hold up under the constant slipping.
As you pointed out the torque reaction of the transmission works against you and reduces the torque to the wheels just when you need it most. Probably why it won't climb my terrace. There is also the drive side of the belt pulling increasingly forward on the transmission as the load increases, adding to that effect.
Another thing on this new one is that the slide handle has to travel around the curve of the newly designed handle bar, requiring more effort than the old straight design. I have a 30 year old Toro PP at my other house and it seems to work fine, although there are no steep hills there.
Very professionally made video. Excellent presentation. Thanks for your good work.
Something rarely mentioned is the bearing in the gear box between the belt pulley and the pinion gear. Dirt gets into it and causes it to drag and that stops it from rotating freely when pulling the mower backwards. The bearing can be freed with penetrating oil or replaced.
That was an outstanding video. You understand mower systems at a mastery level, and you have added two more needed things to your video. 1- Good camera work, and good lighting which kills most videos on TH-cam and 2- Excellent enunciation. Some of the people who do videos know their material, but you can barely understand a thing they say. Keep it up man. Do many more like this one !
Very interesting. I always wodered how it worked. The old mowers used to use a slipping belt method. I guess a toro timemaster is the same method.
I bought one used and found the pulley on the transmission worn paper thin on one side so i flipped it over to the thicker side and seems to work ok
Hi. Do you have a video of you changing the drive belt on the Toro Personal Pace?
We have two identical mowers. Front drive Toro. One will not roll forward, the other will not roll backward. So far the wheels have a gear with a spring and key. All are well cleaned and oiled. Can't locate info on this. Any ideas ? (Oh and thanks a bunch!)
Long story short the variable speed is achieved by Slipping the belt. BTW ALWAYS buy the proper part number for size of the belt on ANY vari-drive system !
Ask me how I know.
Have you used the personal pace system on steep hills and if so, how well does it work on hills?
Great, I mean great explanation, thanks.
What did you use to clean it before you put the grease on?
U needn't remove the transmission to remove the belt.
the transmission on my Toro personal pace won't budge, can i assume it's seized?
how do you adjust the self propelled on a toro?
I'm thinking about converting an old bail controlled Toro to Personal Pace. Is this a crazy idea?
I have a regular push mower and it is hard to push. I took the wheels off to grease the Axels and one of the races stayed on the Axel and it was the first one so I didn't notice it, and I greased the race.
I have gotten one of these given to me that had been setting up for a few years. I cleaned the carburetor and plug and drained the gas and oil and put in fresh, It started on the first pull and I was very impressed with the power of the 6 1/2 hp Engine. The only problem that I have is that the back wheels wobble badly and it is hard to push. I have not replaced the cable that engages the rear drive. Any idea how to fix the wobble on both back wheels? Thanks for any help!
Good Video. I've done these on this type of personal pace toros ans Hondas. But I'm working on a 20092 with the Rocking Key in the drive wheels and can't get this mower to move.
The belt is brand new and tight, and all parts in the drive wheels look good.
The only thing I can think of is thr transmission is slipping or worn out
Make sure that you installed the drive pinions on the end of the axle correctly. If reversed you'll get no drive.
would you recommend buying a Pace ?
did you know that some of those transmissions have clutches in them?
Great camera work!👍👍
what if it is sqealing (the belt)???
I put a grease fitting opposite gear on corner of cover. Fill her up. Did you know same gear box as front drive. You need to take it APPART turn gear other way
We have Lawn Mower Replacement Rear Wheels that may fit your mower. We can provide for free. Do you need?
Is Personal Pace more trouble than it’s worth?
yes, it seems this mower is more trouble than it's worth, belt broke the first year, 2nd year the cable broke. Now with the new cable it worked for a while but stopped. The belt is in tact. Rotating the wheels turns the gears and pulling the belt by hand turns the wheels so the gearbox is good. So it's either a tension problem I have or the belt. The belt doesn't seem stretched. I've been trying the last few days to figure this out. If anyone can help me think this through...
1. Belt is in tact (took it off and verified)
2. I removed the cable again and re-attached (just to be sure it wasn't an adjustment issue
3. The gearbox works because when I turn the shaft by hand with the belt the wheels turn
4. I pulled the cable from the top with pliers after disconnecting from the handle side and the mower still didn't move forward. The wheels didn't spin either (I had the back wheels off the ground).
I just can't seem to figure this one out. Each component seems to work on it's own
I would say try it. I have self propelled mower and it makes big difference.
All your doing is slipping the belt to get different speeds. The gears are just powder metal gears. You either fix this stuff yourself or buy a new mower. With labor so high it would cost more to repair with parts and labor if you had a mower shop fix it. Throw away mowers unless you are a DIY. That drive system will last awhile if you clean it up every year and grease it again. Most people don't so when it breaks the parts will likely cost as much as a new mower. Great video on the system BTW.
Nice job reverse engineering this mechanism! Very interesting how the tension regulates the speed like that
If the wheel does not turn, there may be mud between the gear teeth. After 15 years, I had to buy a drive belt that was 1/2 inch shorter because the metal pulleys can also wear down and make the belt slip.
just got one for free,,,needs a belt ,,gee a lot to change it.. an not easy to bull backward guess thats for safety ,,
Can't hear the things you are trying to teach here is some advice for you turn the stinking volume up it will.work every time