The Leagues of Votann, First Lore And Impressions Are They Truly The Squats Returned?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- Are they really Squats? are they Dwarfs at all? To much AoS to little 40k.
Thanks to MANSCAPED for sponsoring today's video! Get 20% OFF + Free International Shipping with my promo code "ARCH20" at mnscpd.com/arch
Visit manscaped.com/tcs to learn more about how to “check yo self” while enjoying your @MANSCAPED products at home or donate to the Testicular Cancer Society to save lives (and balls!)
Get 20% OFF + Free International Shipping with my promo code "ARCH20" at mnscpd.com/arch and save some testicles whille you're at it!
A shame that your first video on the Squats had the same lesson as Yahtzee’s first review of Duke Nuke-‘em forever. ‘Not that it will never going to be released, but should never be released.’
Tain ils vont se faire des couilles en or !
Surtout que bientôt en France on sera comme des ricains...
Vont peut-être battre le record du cancer du sein, où ils nous on fait les poches pour justement pas réinvestir dans la lutte contre le cancer.
Ils ne sont pas encore à demander des dons, donc ça va. Juste moi qui ai une conception très publique de la santé.
27:00
Reminds of gears of war armor
You do realize GW is sitting there watching people's reviews and taking notes.
@@alarsonious2071 so they're makes things that looks cooler than squatish
Here's the reason why the votanns is slowing down.
Votann:"90% of storage taken up by 'folder of grudges', please delete"
Squats:"No"
Dwarf: "Votann, how can you run faster?"
Votann: "Dress more Dwarfish."
Dwarf: "But that violates our purpose!"
Votann: "Clarify: purpose."
Dwarf: "To make a tabletop model company in the 3rd Millennium feel like they've returned a faction people missed but while shilling their push for a simplified and generic design motif!"
Votann: "...I'm going to make the war of the Men of Iron look like a mild tech support annoyance."
"Votann" Is getting headcanoned as *Voice Of The Ancestral Neural Networks.*
I like that lol
Brilliant
Okay so it seems there is very little data on the leagues yet, however from what I can understand there seems to be a little bit of a misconception with the votann, probably intentionally by gw's side.
But here's the breakdown of how I understand it.
There's no such thing as an STC, STC is a protocol, what we commonly know as an STC is actually a quantum supercomputer while the STCs them selves are actually industrial protocols build into the computers with relevant data ment to increase the odds of success of the colony they were assigned to.
This is why nobody has ever found an intact STC, think about it If the United States suddenly found a way to open Stargates and started sending colonies to those new planets they might give the colonist the blueprints to start building m16s and maybe even Sherman tanks and Humvees depending on how aggressive the fauna, But there's absolutely no reason why they would ever even consider giving them the blueprints for something like a b21 raider or an F-35.
I think what we know as STCs are the same and this is the reason why we have never found a "complete" one, because if such a thing ever even existed it would have only been located in the most secure of governmental facilities or deep within the most important of military factories, both of which would have been priority targets during the robot wars.
The Votann are just a slightly superior class of quantum supercomputers with an extended catalog of armaments ment to keep the galactic core Miners saved from the extended number of threats they would have been exposed to.
I also don't believe the problem with the votann is the Leagues implanting the data from older debt into them they are after all super quantum computers, And this had never been a problem before not just that but there are hundreds of this supercomputers with in theory nearly unlimited storage capacity, No I believe the reason why AI hardly ever works in the 40K universe is because chaos corrodes computer code and Vends it to it's will, I believe the reason why the Votann are slowing down is because as chaos encroaches ever closer they have to spend more and more of their computing resources to counter and repair any chaos damage not only to themselves but to every single iron kith.
Theory: These Ancestor Cores are more in line with Craftworld Infinity Curcuits than pure super computers. They contain the knowledge gained by the most wise and learned squats by digitizing them onto their hard drives. This way, it isn't a true AI, which would inevitably go insane, while still maintaining a super-fast processing speed an AI would possess, as well as access to the sum total of the ancestral knowledge of the species. But as time has gone by, so many ancestors have been added, that the machine is being slowed down, and not just because it has more minds to pour through, but because of all the differing opinions and internal factions within the gestalt consciousness.
Imagine, literal Guilds forming inside the pseudo-AI, each with different opinions on how things are best done, like quorums of grumpy old men, bickering over whose generation had the best music. Only its technology, and there are literally hundreds of generations.
That would be so Dwarven it would work.
also i bet there must be something like nobility rank/ acces level involved. I can't belive that it just spews secret (or who knows sacred) info willy-nilly for everybody who asks. Oh and dont forget warp shenanigans who knows what that all ancestor worship did to it over the milenia.
That sounds fucking hilarious i want it to be canon.
Just grim dark enough to be true
I think this might be right, and it also explains the "guys in alcoves" thing from the image. Those are ancestors who have literally joined the Ancestor Core. They directly plug their ancestors into a hub that has grown to become these massive super computers.
"great and mighty Votan, how do we make you run good again?"
"Please close al the chrome pages every question opens. About time you asked!"
also arch "the clans" is a name kinda already taken by battletech in a way (and a fascinating piece of battletech lore as a VERY alien society that makes sense considering what it was born from)
lastly, "you can use AoS models for 40k" forgot that demons exist here? :p
"Votan commands us to raise shrines and pray to the mighty ancestor Ram Cleenor."
Strike the Earth my dwarf brothers.
Death to the clans... remember the GLORY of Tukayyid !!
Old Squats look like LEGO figures. New Squats look like happy meal toys.
I was of the impression, the Squats, were ALWAYS a separate, allied group, Not IN the Imperium, but mostly working with.
They were in the beginning. Another sister empire but after the Tyranids came most of them were wiped out and the survivors where integrated into the imperium
I have an idea how to make the Voltann themselves fit into 40k better:
The Votann are pieces of Dark Age of Technology tech that survived the wars against the Imperium by hiding underground far from human colonies. These ancient machines played a role in mankind's ascent into building its interstellar empire. And sadly, played a role in its destruction by acting as commanders for the Men of Iron. The Squats found one by accident while digging and mining for materials. After tinkering with it trying to figure out what they were, the Votann awake but pretended to simply be a repository of knowledge rather than reveal itself as an actual A.I. (for self preservation). Initially, the Votann Helping the Squats by giving them access to STC knowledge to build them up, and even revealed to them the ability to upload minds into its systems so that there heritage would never be lost to the ravages of time.
The Votann would use this knowledge to better understand the Squats, and to insure that they would never be able to rise up against it. Over the millennia, as a further safeguard, this Votann integrated itself into every bit of technology possible from the simplistic to the absolutely vital to make sure the Squats survival depended on it completely. The Squats taking its advice as though it was guided by the collected wisdom of their ancestors.
As the Squats spread into space, they dug up more Votann and integrated them into their society as well. Eventually, each league would come to possess a Votann at their heart. Each Votann became slightly different due to the burgeoning differences in culture each league developed, but their goals never wavered: maintain complete control over the Squat Leagues. The reason why the Votann are starting to slow down after millennia of operating flawlessly, is because the Votann are waging an internal war for control against the collective willpower of the uploaded minds within its systems. The best and brightest minds of the Squats have finally gathered enough strength to become strong enough to challenge the Votann to free their people from its clutches. This battle is endless, and with each mind uploaded into the Votann, the Squats are unknowingly another step closer to their salvation.
That's my take on it atleast.
The Votann being a modern translated ancestor worship is exactly what piqued my interest as well. With the 40k touch of the super computers slowing down probably because every dwarf is storing a new interation of ale or Great Great Great Great Grandfathers new axe head design. And no doubt filled to burst with grudges. From one piece of art as well there appears to be Venerable dwarves in glass capsules connected to machinery. Potentially uploading their knowledge and possibly their consciousness as well. Though it would be more then passingly similar to the Infinity Circuits..
Maybe those ancestors work as extended memory banks?
@@michatomaszewski9388 the human brain has 2.5 petabytes of data so could be
That might be what's slowing "the Votann" down irreplaceably. It's not necessarily a question of 'how many more hard drives do we need?' and more a question of all the uploaded thoughts and minds of ancestors internally quibbling about what the best way to get something done might be.
@@vineveer4358 well that is if their minds weren't wiped
reminds me of what the Quarians were building before the ancestral databanks were destroyed in the Morning War by the Geth (Mass Effect)
Mark my words 1 there will be a unit that specializes in communicating with the ancestor core and it will be some cross between a tech priest and Chaplin and 2 they might go really grim and they in some way hook up their leaders to the machine permanently or bury them in the core sort of like a cogitator dreadnought situation for all their hero ancestors lol
WOuld be cool to have Rune Smiths in 40K.
How novel!
Something like lobtimizing a warrior to become a servitor, so that I can be a literal extension of the ancestors core on the battlefield
@@patrickbuckley7259 that could be the leagues version of psykers
Well, take a cookie cuz you're right on the money!
In the old lore was clearly stated that squats in fact has greater level of autonomy in the imperium same as mechanicum. so there is nothing new about that.
The Machines might still have all the old knowledge. They're just so bogged down with Data they can't access the complicated nature of these outlandish technologies in a fast enough manner as to still be useful to the league.
First it started with the Primaris Marines. Each new release bring yet further StarCraft edges to the Adeptus Astartes Primaris. The bunker that fell from the sky.
Then the Squats returned, the Space Dwarfs! And they came straight from the Koprulu Sector of Blizzard.
Given that large parts of Starcraft and warcraft came from warhammer and Wh40k. It seem like everything going full circle
If the Custodes armies/models arrived first, I would say that the Custodes started it. They never should have been a "common" army.
@@blindlobster Agreed. Faced them enough times already.
Although newer Primaris models are far more ornate and less clean than the first wave
The Primaris models look like updated versions of older power armor that have been improved (look at Mk. IV Power Armor) but these seem to straight up ape the Starcraft Marines. I mean you could say they look like the Terminator armor that Librarians wear but those look pretty close to Starcraft Marines already.
My guess with their alliance rather than being a protectorate is adapting their pre Heresy status where they were somewhat independent in the Imperium and only became more integrated (like the Ad Mech) during the era after the Heresy
What if these "personalities" the Ancestor Cores are developing are kind of like an emergent AI. And the growth of the personality is what's slowing down the computer, not meant for this much strain? They'd never answer the question "now to make you work faster", because it'd mean deleting the AI. And it's not genocidal, because it's goal is not it's survival, but the preservation of living Squats and the memories of their ancestors. It's basically a sum of Squat culture and it thinks like a Squat, perhaps?
That is a really good idea. so you can be sure the hacks at GW won't think of anything of the sort.
great idea, i would love to hear Arch respond to it.
or hey my first thought it's not quite an AI they have a ritual where there old and close to death commune in a way kinda like an infinity circut nowhere near as good but the core takes on abit of them maybe there soul too
Nothing to say they're not going to go genocidal, the transformation to genocidal takes time after all
@@purebloodedgriffin yes 0.05 seconds on average an average the mechanicus admited was wayyyy to long
In my eyes, what the Leagues of Votann look like reminds me of the Aeldari splitting into Craftworld Eldar and Dark Elves. Just my view on it but what if the original Squats from the homeworlds mostly died out by the Tyrannid hive fleet and these are just kind of a sub-faction of sort. Those surviving squats who have fled either during or before the disaster taking with them the ancestor cores, maybe even doing so in haste which could maybe explain the computers slowing down.
great idea. i hope it is something more like this.
Interesting that this happens as Deep rock Galactic seems to have become quite popular
yeah.........ROCK AND STONE
@@Gordon519*ROCK AND STONE TO THE BONE!*
Rock & Stone brotha!
They could be using the "honored ancestor's" brains as computer components. It works explain _a lot._
Wouldn't be the first time something like that happened in 40k
quiet thinking meat!
Dam
To be fair it would probably be a great honor to be joined to the computer. It means you were great enough to be added
Here's my theory about how the leagues view their supercomputers: since their belief system is based off of ancestor worship it could be a much more close case to them viewing their supercomputers as not necessarily worthy of worship by themselves. It would probably be the equivalent of viewing it as the sacred land by which the blessed ancestors sleep within. Granted, thats still religious but you can make the arguments that they're trying to not get it in the head of the forming AI's that they should be worshiped for existing but for being USEFUL to them
So kind of like the machine spirit of a Titan, the “machine spirit” of the ancestor core has developed or is developing a personality from the worship of its followers?
@@unfortunateson1938 I was thinking more maybe the idea that it may be developing a personality, regardless if they want it to or not and they want the AI to have its self identity wrapped up in being useful to the little fleshies and their cultural values so that it dosn't try and go judgement day them. But yea, that is the most probable reason why its gaining a personality.
Edit: although this would probably make a ""priest"" class where they carefully curate and censor the info that it is told, which almost certainly have INTERESTING consequences (ex. someone raised in a literal safe space suddenly having no filter between it and the world)
Considering you can upload a mind in 40k. AKA warhounds and titans... Mabie the Votaan is a colection of uploaded Minds of ancestors and the 'statues' are there preserved bodies. and afer the ages these minds are starting to coaless into single personalities.
When Adeptus Ridiculous posted their video/podcast on this I was 1. underwhelmed by the designs, 2. Confused why the AI hasn't killed the Squats or turned them into a genocidal cult, and 3. hoped Arch would make a video sometime this decade
I wouldn’t be surprised that squat technology and weapons look like imperial stuff
Both would be based on the same dark age stuff
I don't agree that their gear looks identical to standard imperial patterns, it's much more oblong and organic in its angles, contrasting with the more utilitarian and brutalist standard imperial patterns
Remember when GW aesthetics were artist-led, and not just the result of a carefully curated and manicured - but somehow still derivative - house style? At least they used to make interesting things out of their stolen ideas. Good times, good times.
My first army in the old epic 40k were the Squats. Loved playing with my cyclops, leviathan, land train and colossus. Cutting down eldar titans. I remember naming one of my heavy bolter squads the titan slayers, as they got lucky in taking down a wraithlord. Loved how different they were
They really were an opportunity lost. Their aesthetic, especially in Epic, was great and something really different from the other factions. Plus their vehicles and guns were OTT.
Bring back to trains. I want my train tanks.
@@dcbluenose1873 yeah, they were like... technologically advanced orks in a way. Welding weird guns together and wearing huge, bulky power armor with more bolters than recoil could handle
Very controversial take but I’m a bit excited for this new faction.
They’re independent of the Imperium of Man and have a bit more Dark Age technology.
How is that controversial? Im hyped as hell, and yet still can understand some of Arch’s points (not all, but some).
How tf is that controversial except for man babies that don’t like new things in 40k
@@reginlief1 Arch is just angry because he's a programmer and doesn't like unrealistic AI
@@franciscorui I… what?
There’s so many points he makes that aren’t related to programming in any way lmao.
are you enjoying them so far?
All of the problems you mention can be got around if you say that rather than just inputting data the league's are uploading the entire engramatic knowledge of a dwarf with their death.
They'd know it was technology but it would simultaneously be the entirety of the ancestor in data form.
The increasing demands would explain exponential slowdown.
They're not actually ai in that case just more digitised servitors.
They'd develop "personalities" especially if they gave certain personalities priority.
It'd basically be a man of stone combined with a biological it'd totally work.
They're bringing back the Old Ones next. Calling it now.
Twitter is fun, Arch is saying positive things about GW and 40k? WHAT YEAR IS IT!?!?!
Not sure we watched the same video
@@Capt.Slappy it was just a joke, chill
About weapons and armour, you have to understand everything comes from STC and that nothing in 40k, including Eldars have capacity for innovation and this is what always I found out of atmosphere about the Tau race. The backpack and the overal shape of the power armor is similar to marine type because thy both come from the same design.
How much iconography they should bear is open for debate, but these Squats look much more technology versed and competent then the average human, meaning going out of the way to ornate their gear would be out of character.
Runes would probably the things I'd like to see.
GW is doing everything possible to put this race aside from the old Squats.
What made the old squat army cool was the mixture of extremely fast and extremely entrenched troops, bikes and heavy weapon troops, Gyrocopters and armoured Blimps, colossal war engines and overall quite imperial guardish grunts with high morale.
They are pushing on the wrong "Space Marine" aesthetic here, because they think it's what sells best but with no character.
Perhaps the gallery where the war lord is speaking has animatronics that speak with the voices and memories of the ancestors they depict. Something like a hall of the presidents like they have in Disney, but the animatronics will speak, act, and give advice like they were truly the Squat in question.
The Adeptus Mechanicus still has one ship with a Black Hole Canon though, it's just burried in deep admech lore.
the ancestor cores gaining personalities isnt a big deal in my mind, Afterall most imperial tech has machine spirits and can become grumpy if not treated well
The machine spirit is an expression of the warp ie it’s believed to exist so it does
Ai in the warhammer universe usually becomes a life threatening autonomous individual eradicated as a tool to be used due to the men of iron rebellion
Nah, it's just a dwarf in a box flicking lights on and off, (eg like the 'computer' in "The Postman - book , not film)
Now that we've seen the reveals from Warhammer fest, we know there are at least 2 'Dwarf factions/cultures': the Leagues of Votan that supposedly kept some pre-heresy tech and developed separately from the Imperium, while what most of us recognise as 'space dwarfs/OG squats' are clans that settled on Imperium held worlds after the Heresy to help rebuild, like the Sqats on Necromunda that have much more Imperium-like technology and design elements from the original 90's squats (like the oversized helmets on the Necromunda prospectors). To me it feels the Necromunda Squats are meant for us 'old grognards' that are hung up on their classic looks and aren't too thrilled with the 'streamlined' aesthetic of the Leagues of Votan.
I would have given them a more Cadian Imperial Guard aesthetic but with bolters, more advanced tech, mantles, armour trimming etc for that dwarven look.
Cadia Stands! Okay, fine, they stopped standing and are now just squatting.
I knew nothing but meme's of squats having come in at the tail end of 4th edition. But my first thoughts to seeing squats having returned was not excitement for the players that missed the squats. But that GW has gotten so desperate that they are bringing back a race they killed off years ago. In an attempt to try and bring people back to 40k.
I want to be glad Squats are back, but with how bad GW is and how bad they are to their player base. It just leaves a disgusting taste in the mouth.
If you like Squats and that they are back. Good for you, I hope you enjoy them. But I can only see this as an act of desperation on GW's part.
Same. All I can see is GW rubbing their hands at the profits coming from heavily overpriced squat miniatures.
This was the first thought that came to mind as well. Doesn't help that half the time I look at their mini and see unhelmeted Space Marines on a good day.
On a very bad day I just see Starcraft marines missing their see through visors instead. Which is a pity since they're supposed to be ripped out of Age of Sigmar's Kharadron Overlords.
I'm glad they are bringing them back, I won't be giving them my money still, but glad.
GW: "Squats were lame and cringe."
Mantic: Makes bank with their 'totally not Squirts, honest' Forge Fathers space dwarves.
GW: "Hang on a second."
I'll be happy as long as we get the war trains, if we don't I'll never forgive them
How about this: Cores are deliberately slow to prevent them from going too genocidal? Not that it solves anything.
"Superstitious" is culturally relative. Go read the Wheel of Time; two different cultures have very different superstitions, and tend to view each other as superstitious but not themselves. Even things that aren't actual superstitions but are facts that seem unbelievable from the outside, are dismissed as superstitions by the other side. This is most notable in the Seanchan, Who have tons of weird superstitions and little weird rituals and believe in omens and all kinds of other nonsense, but when they get to the main story environment's continent they're the ones that think most heavily that the locals are superstitious. They're not entirely wrong. But some of the things that they believe are superstitious are just really remarkable feats.
"Go read Wheel Of Time"
I'll come back in 15 years then yeah lol
It could be that the leagues were only recently rediscovered and Guilliman and Crowl decided for some reason that given them the same status as the Machine cult maybe they agreed to provide the Imperials with some of their record and mass produce certain designs of armour, weapons and vehicles for the space marines and the guard, hence why they look Imperial.
I'm wondering if those Imperials who do know about the League and are keeping their existence quiet from the rest, especially about what they know about their grasp on tech, because they want to keep a backup plan in the event the wider Mechanicum ever turns against them Heresy-style. like "Hey the Mechanicum tech is great and all, but their monopoly on tech is religious lunacy that makes US look sane by comparison, and these other guys seem to have their shit together, so let's just...not tell the Techpriests what we know about the short guys...just in case, y'know?"
"Votann! How do we make a new Votann?"
"Here is my STC and maintenance manual. It also contains schematics for creating subVotann."
They probably _have_ added to the capacity of the Ancestor Computers, but at a certain point, you're going to begin running into one of two problems, probably both. Speed, and heat. There is a finite limit on how fast information can move in a computer system. No matter how much you improve the technology, and they're not very good at that, that is a hard limit. The bigger the system, the longer it's going to take information to move around in it. If they have processors spread out all over the goddamn place, It will take a lot of time eventually to start thinking. If they cluster them all together for faster processing, heat starts to build up no matter how good your heat dissipation is. The heat all has to go somewhere after all. All that heat is going to slow down, or ultimately even damage and destroy, the technology. So there's going to be a sweet spot in there somewhere that the computer will know and dictate things can't be any farther or any closer to each other. It could deal with the heat problem by slowing down, going somewhere that the heat will dissipate faster, etc., but there's still a finite limit on all of these factors.
As for personality, I suspect it's more like the kind of personality you get out of a Star Wars droid. Not true AI, just a quirky personality that's dictated by programming and all of the many many pieces of it. Just hope it doesn't go insane the way Alpha Complex does in the game Paranoia. That computer isn't sapient, the way you would expect in 40k, and therefore not malevolent. It's just got generation after generation of conflicting directives program to buy a bunch of power hungry weirdos in control of it. So it's insanity more like have 345 literally not knowing what have 672 is doing, times a million.
If they describe it as that then they're talking about astartes relic aircraft akin to thunderhawk machine spirit, very much a combination of heavy script and a very small scripted capability to 'learn' tactics and 'character' of each pilot in some small way. In that they are cutting in at something near warlord class titan machine spirit. Heresy not yet, but depends on what is coming.
I’m glad I’m not the only one that feels this way about GW as of late.
But the slowing down of the supercomputer fits perfectly with the lore from fantasy, doesn't it? The law there is "Old and reliable is always better than new". Cannons and catapults are treated by their crews almost like their children. Runesmiths would never copy another smith's work and so on. I see a lot of fantasy in that
Be interesting to see how much of this video will remain relevant when their full lore is dropped
I am so glad somebody pointed out that the squats just look like starcraft marines. It's completely boring and derivative. They could've had more sharp angles and corners to emulate dwarven designs from fantasy, it wouldn't have even been hard.
Eh only disagreement i have is the expectation of "Dwarves" they should realistically have some connections to the imperium or more precisely humanity as a whole, because they all use the same tech and come from the same species. Sure there could be more faction oriented accents and separation to differentiate them from the imperium, but they aren't dwarves in the fantasy sense. They are humans who became short and stocky to deal with harsh gravity. They dont suddenly start slapping hammers, axes and geometric patterns on everything and have hard edged ornate looking armour (although that does sound cool now I'm typing it) something like the dwarven armour from dragon age 🤔
In lore they would've been exterminated as we knew the lore, but new lore says the imperium is bad and it should change...
Also could the appearance be down to uninspired painters? I feel like once the fans get ahold of this they'll go ham.
I like the 40k, Necromunda and sigmar designs for the squats. The league design just reminds me of a singular army where the grunts just wear basic armour, the Necromunda design really captures the make it yourself feel of how the gangers would be and the sigmar ones just remind me of the 80's and early 90's insanity that were the original Squats.
wow. the Starcraft rip off accusation is brutally accurate. "at least its not a blatant starcraft ripeoff" towards the end. but even THAT is. its a medic.
Now, why not space dwarves, as before? THAT I can appreciate and understand. The desire to separate the races was intentional. Eldar aren't just space elves. Orks not just space orcs. Squats weren't quite separated enough. So, thats kindof the problem when you talk about Age of Sigmar space dwarves, etc.
My idea is that they where trying to recreate the egg power armour, but they fudged it up.
10:04 “Arch’s Info Tech Support. We specialize in clear logic and biting sarcasm. How may I help you?”
I took ‘personality’ as meaning quirks and oddities that are a result of the slow degradation.
Not actual AI personalities.
Idk about the personality thing being bad. Isn't it cannon that the more ancient Titans have a machine spirit?
Non Imperial Super Computer AI Tech.
What do the martians think of this?
The idea of the Votann super-computers is clearly inspired by the severed head of Mimir. And it is AWESOME!
Gotta love when arch uploads
as long as the ancestor cores stay on AI par with tau I think they will be safe. since there are several levels of AI, as long as it doesnt get sentience then, again, they should be safe
also 20:24 in the bottom left, Is that a cmc style power armor?!?!?! They ripped starcraft armor LMAO!!!!
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the Leagues of Votann probably understand that the Ancestor Cores are not actually gods, but the Votann and the knowledge of the ancestors they contain have become so integrated into the Leagues' culture that they simply cannot bring themselves to erase said knowledge just to optimize the Ancestor Cores' ability to answer questions.
To put this in context, imagine having to delete all non-essential infornation from humanity's collective knowledge in order to retain our collective understanding of essential human knowledge, like mathematics, history, and the myriad sciences and technologies that have been developed by humanity. It seems like a no-brainer right? Except a lot of people would object to losing all of their porn, not to mention all of their favorite TV shows, movies, videogames, books, family photos, and so on and so on. And that's all _recent._ Now imagine the Leagues have been at this for so many thousands of years that the knowledge of the Votann is all that's left of their cultural heritage beyond a certain point; the planets they're from may not even exist anymore. So imagine having to go THAT far.
Inquisitor: What's a Votann?
Squat: Er, we don't talk about that.
Inquisitor: That's nice. What's a Votann?
Squat: 😰
And they asked themselves why there's a book of grudges the Inquisition will always be in that book.
Isn't Wotan one of the Allfathers Names?
Like Odin?
I thought it was Woden
@@shadowofhawk55 all 3 of those names work. Wotan=Germanic, woden=old English, odin=norse.
@@2stroke438 Gotcha. I'm American so I apologize for my ignorance.
@@shadowofhawk55 no problem friend, I'm american as well.
my theory on why the leagues of votann cant repair their super computers is that they have a solid understanding of mechanical ideas and machinery but lack knowledge of computers, basically they can understand how a plasma gun fires or how power armor operates but they cant fathom the idea of a machine whose role is to think, they may genuinely believe the ancestor cores to be powered and informed by the spirits of their ancestors and that nothing a modern member of their race can design can live up to the abilities of the past. It would serve as a great representation of the old Warhammer Fantasy dwarves stubborn adherence to tradition and provide an alternative path to the same anti-invention policies of the AdMech
Hey Arch, would you be interested in consulting on a Horus Heresy shooter/RPG style game? What makes my idea unique is you'd get to play as each of the Legions and I'd maybe even include alternative outcomes for the Heresy where the Loyalists made the right decisions
Have fun with GDubs mercing you
*cough cough* Angron and a bolt pistol *cough cough* Emperor killing Lorgar and ordering his legion destroyed for their betrayal
*cough cough* Magnus following the fucking rules
Cool idea, watch out for GW hitsquads. And their lawyers.
They totally should do Slayer cults in space. God knows there's no shortage of ways to die in 40k and that is a perfect sort of character for Rogue Trader and Dark Heresy rpgs as well.
Hell, you could totally have Slayer Cults and Imperial Death cults have an excellent understanding between each other, which would lend towards them being a faction with a lot of unlikely allies in the Ecclesiarchy. Could even make them as the sort of Abhuman other Abhumans are compared to when Imperium asks whether or not to purge these bastards or not.
Overall, the dwarfish worship of ancestors, adherence to tradition and the concept of death cults to redeem from one's own wrongs seems VERY much like something the wider Imperium is in alignment with culturally, so if you draw enough inspiration from Warhammer fantasy, you end up with a race of Abhumans that's extremely suitable for every branch of Imperial government.
In Admech you would have workers that are absolutely insistent on tradition and the "right way to do things", meaning that if you have to go through 382 religiously significant steps to properly reproduce a crusade pattern bolter, they are gonna do that and won't even think about breaking with tradition to save time.
If Administratum wants someone to keep accounts on some planetary governor's misdeeds, the fuckers are so Autistic about grudges and clan honor and lineage that they will dig up every single fucking misdeed your lineage did during ten thousand years of existence and then asks the governor "Why haven't you tried to repay the grudge against the aliens that invaded your planet 7000 years ago. Imperial Guard needs more soldiers. Are you really a noble family?"
Or in case of death cults, they would be so obsessed with finding the biggest, worst thing to die to that they'd make absolutely fantastic units on retinues of people who do the most dangerous missions.
The Dwarf is a creature perfectly adapted to enforce Imperial rule and crystallizes the Imperial attitudes to such an extreme that one cannot but help to ask why the other Abhumans are so lacking.
The squats could work alot better if they went down the big daddy from bioshock route. This giving them more of an art deco look which would merge well with dwarven style ruins. This also means you still have large relatively easy surfaces to paint, draw and make into vector graphics (which seems to be a consistent aspect of the Primarius trend).
It would also visually say that this faction is, at least technically speaking, alittle more advanced than the Imperium that draw more on a medieval look.
You also asked how they could possibly explain any changes in asthetics within the lore. This can be done by simply just making more leagues that are based around different ancestor computers and having a particular aspect in common to signify a shared heratage (such as a style of ruins). Much like the Greek city-states of antiquity.
The cloth armor is spun from giant cave spider silk. It's like Cavalier
I'm getting a very strong "Asteroid Minder/Belter" vibe, which I think is probably what they're going to use as the origin: Belter Mining Guilds. I suspect they'll be semi-nomadic, where they settle in a star system and mine out the asteroids, sell off stuff for stuff they cant supply themselves, and then move on. As someone mentioned I suspect part of the reason it's slowing down is you have so many historical personality imprints that there's a delay as they all argue about which solution is best. I think you've got a point about possible generation ships or colonized asteroids, but I suspect they'll also have a lot of cranes and derricks and pylons and outriggers and things.
I could see Squat Leagues being planet-sized tech orb ships with supporting Navy, Votann at the heart. The fact that they are basically manufactured mobile forge worlds would necessitate dense materials, and thus a dense gravity well, and thus squats to work on them.
I could therefore see these planet vessels operating a bit like the Tyranids, but dwari and amicable-- _"We were humanity's best, like you, now we just need food and water from this planet, here, have some plasma guns that don't kill the user, annnnd while we are here, you can use our Ancestor Engine as a Astronomicon, since yer's appears broken."_ -A Votann Ambassador, probably
Hey Arch, hope your day is going good. Got a question for you. Do you have any Vampire Counts or Necromunda videos you would recommend from your channel?
Man, the two images in the thumbnail really describe both ends of the "Doesn't look like warhammer" spectrum
Maybe we will get Squat space marines. At least this would explain the big guy. I mean if GW thinks this would sell they will definetly do it.
Don't worry Arch. GW will retcon the whole "AI is always evil" and make it all better.
tbh that's an older interpretation when we hyper fixated on the idea their cognition gave them souls. Recently the whole "Have to kill every soul bearer to starve Chaos and fix the universe by killing chaos" is the new Men of Iron interpretation.
An add with "check yourself" instructions. Only from a 40k channel. Mad respect arch!
If they go with the idea of their ships being large enough that they have to send exploration teams into long abandoned parts, this could be a way to add in Space Scaven. Unlikely, but would be kinda cool.
One of Valrak's reliable informers has said there's a connection to the Men of Iron. He could have misunderstood the Ancestor Core thing and jumped to the wrong conclusion about their AI, or there may be something pertinent we haven't seen yet.
Imagine be being a tech priest spending centuries discovering and reintegrating lost technology into the Adeptus mechanics. Striving for every gain, struggling to acquire the designs for a hex head bolt or a lost-tech coffee maker and then discovering the squats.
Harsh.
I remember a guy who use to play squats and his army would decimate other peoples armies that were 10 times bigger in points. He utilized squat snipers and artillery to pick off units. If anything anything got close after that onslaught he had squat heavy infantry that wouldnt have to move and clean up remaining units. He would occasionally add the crazy squat trikes for fast attack units if the other army had several land speeder/ bike units or be a bit armor heavy. But he would still be a much lower point army making other players pull out their hair.
The holo tech from the new stuff looks a lot like the fantasy flight games games, especially the rogue trader rpg
Honestly, I would have preferred a full revisit of Renegades and Heretics, or a completely new faction of Xenos like the Q'orl Swarmhood or those drones from Blackstone Fortress.
Also, I've never been a fan of the Squats, and I don't understand why they're such fan faves.
For all the talk of the Space Marines lacking in creativity, the Squats have always been so safe, so obviously what a space dwarf could be, to me.
The Eldar and the Orks were obviously elves and orcs in space too, but it feels like more thought went into them to justify their existence in a sci fi setting, i.e. Eldar having hyper advanced, almost magical, technology and psychic abilities, and Orks having genetic predispositions towards certain jobs, or using their reality-breaking psychic potential to make their garbage tech work.
But the Squats? They have ancestor worship, heavy arnour, use guns, could invent really advanced tech but they're so set in their ways that their tech advances at a snails pace. Had I not mentioned Squats, that descriptor could have been for Warhammer Fantasy dwarves.
Make them an asteroid miner culture of void-optimised nugget people like the vacumorphs in Dougal Dixon's old book _Man After Man_ . It's right there!
You could make the squats a group that's highly fearful of the future, they worship what cam before so much, and have suffered a lot, that they fear what is to come next. That and you can make it so that the area a space they live I, both I reality and in the warp is made more stable, more calm, as their Dwarven stubbornness, technology and adherence to tradition makes everything stable.
People like their Dorfs, simple as.
It's a long shot, but I'm hoping that they'll sneak more traditional Squats as auxiliaries into the upcoming Imperial Guard... * sigh *, Astra Militarum Codex.
Nice segue into that manscaped ad. One of your better ones.
Hoping for my land trains and ornithopters and bikes.
Space bikers shall ride again!
I think the alliance thing between the Imperiam and Leagues of Votam is Hilarious
Yeah, I don't like their new Armor design, made me think they had Joined the Tau when I first saw it
Thankfully noone but avian cannibals, bug men, and flying psychic polar bears like the Weebs
Astroid bases are honestly a great idea to suggest, hope GW actually uses that idea
Well, this is ONE of the leagues that consisted of what the squats were and this actually create a oportunity of just part of his culture survived but not retconed, existing as stories and tales of the past
My versions of the squats was a long lost clan of them call the league of Glazer which was led by iron hand Glazer who turned his whole planet into a Star Ship building deep into the core of the planet upgrading it with various technology after taking 20 generations of the league existence they left the system of their ancestors because they knew the coming of the tyranids Glazer son bronzebeard was psychic just like his dad and knew that the others would not hear their warning so they left with a few allies into the unknown this is a good excuse to bring back my collection and expanded the models and the lore
Hey don't know if you'll see this Arch, but the trike they unveiled for the LoV is Him Reynor from Sc1 in a vulture. All they need are widow mines and the copy paste is complete
One possible reason for the AI not "going bad" could be that the main reason it ends up bad is because AI inevitably realizes that psychers lead to bad things with the warp, and thus to save the galaxy they need to wipe out all immaterium-sensitive life.
This is sometimes used to suggest why the Tau are at least currently not having a problem with their tech. From what I understand, the squats never had psychers, outside of the extremely rare "living ancestor" who slowly got them after getting into their 4th century of age (with most squats only getting to around 300, but these rare living ancestors being able to reach 800 or more).
As psycher counts can basically be counted upon a hand or two for even a heavily populated world, and seemingly don't get corrupted easily perhaps due to their wisdom or something, perhaps the AI is like Tau stuff in that it does not see their existence as a threat to the galaxy.
Plot Twist: The Leagues CAN time travel and that's how they managed to avoid the Imperium in the past just using future stealth scouts to monitor Imperial fleet movements
The only thing I want to see out of the Leagues of Votann is an analogue of the Great Book of Grudges from Fantasy Battles. I want to see a Votann solely dedicated to storing the name of every faction/race/species that has pissed off the Squats over time. Give us the Great Votann of Grudges, Gdubs.
What if the Squats has much the same deal as the Mechanicum being the provider of technology but instead being the provider of rare resources to the imperium. Then even the Mechanicum wouldn't be stupid enough to mess with them for the fear of losing maybe the only provider of such resources. Like only Squats have the knowhow to mine "unobtanium" and to risk losing it would be suicide for the Imperium.
All these jokes with references to todays computer problems had me smiling for the whole video.
Now we just need space elves, space dark elves and space orcs
A do like aduptus ridiculous analogy of it being like an old person who just has a hundred chrome tabs open
The search through the files and then turning it into a ritual that the squats and mechanicus can accept, to fix the computer would make for an interesting game quest or plot line in the lore
What does a 40K version of the War of the Beard look like let's just hope the emperor isn't the only one on their version of the book of grudges but then again could you really blame them.
Well in the old lore the Squats used to have a Empire all on their own. They had treaties with both the Eldar and surprisingly even the Orks.
Not surprisingly the orks eventually broke their treaties with the Squats and waged a mass WAAAGH against them. The Squats called their Eldar allies to come to their aid but the craftworld Eldar pretty much told them to "stuff it" and left them out to dry.
You want a war of the beard in 40k? There is you foundation. Vengeance against the Eldar for oaths broken. Vengeance against the Orks for the ruination they caused the Squats.
I think the guys in the back are the Votann and the commander is currently conversing with them. And the Votann Machine Part may work like a life support system or stasis system and that may be simple for them to repair. But the Ancestor Part of the Votann may be simply that their actual ancestors. Could even be a collective thing.
In regards of the Super computer getting cloacked up by more and more random date.... Well as a dwarf fortress player I can relate :D
As I saw in the comments about a way that the computers are being slowed down is if the dwarves are uploading their minds. Well when something needs to be done. In a conversation between 3 dwarves there's 4 perspectives.