Honestly the biggest fumble GW has done when it came to the LoV was that there where no Votann novels that came out with the box set in 9th. I would love more Capitalist Space Dwarves lore and stories but nope, here’s more Ultramarine novels
The novels are such a good way to get us interested in them too! Especially because you - yeah, you, the person reading this comment, _JIM_ - have questions and you'd like to see them play out in-series. How do they see humanity, what about a novel that puts them in conflict with the Admech or Inquisition, do they get along with the Space Wolves, what's the deal with stuff like New Catachan?
I want more League lore! I think your frustration is very justified here. It's really sad how many of their unique aspects has been gutted so soon after their release.
@@scrubgrunt5105 long story short, he's behind 90% of the eldar lore, and eldar players...do not like that. While he's good at world building, the combat aspect, not so much, as he believes them a dying race, and as such they cannot win, or at best have a phyric victory. But who would want to read books about your characters getting their behind kicked? That's why the third instalation of the ynnari trilogy got canceled, and the entire eldar species just became inexistant story wise afterwards (by that, i mean nothin lore and little, figurine wise), since the ynnari stole the main plot of the three other sub-faction and they then got guillotined. They're dead.
@@scrubgrunt5105not as bad, they do have a few good books and are allowed to be successful here and there . One time they stole an STC that could cure "everything" and turned it into another torture instrument, just for the sake of winning a competition for vect
Yes. They changed too much from fantasy dwarves, which generally defeated the purpose of having space dwarves, but I could have forgiven it. But not having long beards is unforgivable.
I love my votann! And I got them because I thought they were cool, and different also very versatile. But once 10th ed came around it felt like they sucked out everything I liked about the army except for the models themselves. Hopefully when their codex comes out, they get a full rework back into their unique glory. Rock and stone!
Reminder that the "Fix" was to just lower points so much that you flood the board, and now the win rate is just based on having too many bad units that you score more points than your opponent.
Yea it’s a shame that when I started reading their rules at the end of 9th like there was a day between me reading the “current” rules and then me reading the changes for 10th. What a roller coaster that was
The homogenization of melee seems to just be a thing in 10th. Comparing my passing familiarity with model rules in 9th and available load outs compared to 10th, GW seems to have favored streamlining over any sort of model customization. Most power weapons are now just “relic weapons” and the combi-weapons don’t even have individual stats anymore. There’s no difference between a combi-melta or combi-plasma. It’s all just too simple now, and that’s coming from someone who’s never played a game.
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You nailed it, I come from a time when combi-weapons were truly a game changer and melee was still good. Then i watched as my Nids slowly got nerfed directly and indirectly, melee got made so bad Nids were useless at it, they got weakened so that even if used for range the big boys could be dropped by end of turn 1 easily and then point values meant you had to take less and less instead of compensating by upping your numbers on the table.
Using both to make my Space Dwarfs, as well as some from DenofImagination, McAngry minis, and Papsikel. Best part is they actually look like Dwarfs and not smaller Space Marines XD
Oh good, someone else is incredibly mad about the sword option for the Khal being missing, ESPECIALLY SINCE IT'S A LOADOUT YOU CAN ACTUALLY MAKE OUT OF THE BASE KIT NOT JUST THE LIMITED EDITION!!!
I told myself I wouldn’t get into 40k until they added Dwarfs, two months later Votann came out. I just want to see more from this faction, they have a huge amount of potential
I feel it's just GW being GW as they have been for years, they just stopped trying to even look like they cared. the release of 10th seems like the focus is on making maximum profit off new customers with little to no focus on game support or balance.
As a huge Votann fan, this video sums up absolutely everything I love and hate about the faction. We need some novels asap. Great video, you’ve earned a sub 👍
Something I miss is a bit more ... nordic/viking look. We already have a trillion dudes/dudettes with power armour. They have their own design. I dont hate it. But I dont love it either. The Grimnyr looks how I wanted the entire army to look
I just started 40k in the summer and was trying to research LoV and was finding next to no info on the in the last few weeks. What you said further cements the results of the research, especially having no novels.
As a average dwarf enthusiast as well, I was really hoping that these dudes would be a bit like the fantasy dwarves. Some of it is there, but I really wanted more, dwarfy-ness. Big artillery batteries, really stout and up close guys with axes. They feel so disconnected from the universe, and part of it is that they have no lore right now, but I wish their aesthetic was more 40k if that makes sense.
@@tarektechmarine8209 it's ancient tech that the Imperium no longer understands. It's a big theme with the Imperium that they're losing technology and back sliding more and more. Also all Leagues weapons aside from beams do have Imperium equivalents
@@beowylfen I really hate how 40K does the whole "lost tech" trope. They are able to build and maintain entire war fleets of battleships that travel through space hell and arm their rank and file with laser rifles, but they are somehow losing technology?
My biggest criticism is a stylistic one. Dwarves are the antithesis of Orks but should share the outlandish humor. There should be eye patches, weird haircuts, inventive and outlandish weapons ( like multi-melta trikes ). They are the survivors, on mining worlds and isolated regions, so they are a bit tropo, or should be. It could have been a fun army. Instead it's a bit meh. It's a game! They need more animal motifs, innovative gear and lore.
You don't love them, you're addicted to buying GW slop. You confuse sunk cost fallacy and addiction to this. Hence why everyone just accepted the endless unnecessary editions, to mention nothing of the prices.
GW done them and the grexy knights dirty, no psychic phase makes my knights shit and the weapons are just nemewsis force weapons they took our cool hammers...GW really sucks in these
According to rumors wave 2 is allegedly going to be out next year. I will caution some skepticism though as GW has fumbled EVERY dwarf race launch in Sigmar as well. Tiny as fuck initial mini armies that had no visual range to expand like fyre and Kharadron. Now rather than fix their mistakes and flesh these factions out PROPERLY with a major release wave GW and AoS has basically put a ban on all things KO and Fyre that isn't a single leader model release. It's a pretty dumb situation. I HOPE they give Votann their flavour back while not being OP as shit and continue to support them with books and models for decades... but looking at SIgmar has me sus as fuck.
GW just isn’t a good game manufacturer. They make cool minis. They make cool lore. They make cool fomo. But they are horrible at balancing the game properly. There are games SO much more rounded and well made. Same goes for their little game boxes. Literally every game they make rulewise is done better by someone else. Only difference is that the others aren’t 40K. But they profit from that tremendously. Because by balancing the imbalance correctly, you can „guide“ your customers into shifting products back and forth. That’s why the Leagues only get a new shineup, when GW can capitalise on a ton of Fomo and „Wantnewshinything“. Their games will never just be „good“. They want to be a little shitty.
Votann Players: "They are doing our army dirty. We are totally Nerfed in all the unique stuff we could do, and they ignore us in the Lore." Tau players: "first time?" Tau Players: "Just wait until they reintroduce your unique stuff as a new technology for the Space Marines, despite the fact that they don't have any tech progress."
Frankly, the beam weapons are a throw back to templates of yesteryore. I dearly miss templates, but bloody everyone else seems to really hate the slowdown of play that actual model positioning impacts on weapons and so forth causes. Most people like to just shove them as close together as possible for a variety of reasons, largely because it speeds things up and reduces the variation on what is and isn't in range.
I hate how the Leagues have AI, but not men of Iron. I was so hyped when I started learning some of their lore because I remember UR-025 from Black Stone Fortress and thought maybe we'd finally get some more lore on the men of iron. It would have been sick to see Men of Iron who chose to stick with humanity. But no, they just have generic dollar store google. Also yay, another faction that's just immune to chaos for no good reason. How do Chaos players convince themselves that their gods are cool and they're the biggest threat to the setting when literally 99% of all life in the galaxy is just immune to their influence.
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Yeah I will never understand that, Necrons sure, Nids fine, but Tau for example? So normal animals can be corrupted, plants can be corrupted, but Tau cannot or do not get corrupted?
I really love unique factions and unique mechanics. What they need is more tunneling stuff like the mole mortars and the boring machine transports, as well as more stuff that makes them slow and hard to kill. It’s dwarves after all. Maybe also something to fuck with psykers. Like rune stones in W.Fantasy. And why only Leagues of Votann? Give us a Squats faction and special rules for all the leagues. Not everyone is playing Ultramarines. Give us lore, flavor and options.
I haven't paid any attention to Leagues of Votann (I left that money sink long ago), but it sounds like they're on their way to be re-squatted. And cool melee gear being just basic CC weapons? That annoyed me back in 6th with chainswords.
...honestly, I'd have just quit once they invalidated the book I paid good money for in a very obvious attempt to milk me for money. That sounds infuriating and I haven't touched a GW product in over a decade. And uh, will continue to NOT do that, good lord. Would like to see more of the Space Dwarves though. I would've expected actual tanks from them, as opposed to like...rovers, though.
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This is why many older players have moved on to other games, heck in Battletech you can still run a bunch of metal minis from the 90's with the newer rule, or run newer plastic minis with rules from the 90's. GW really never considered that back and forward compatibility is a GOOD THING!
Well, it seems a common theme with their newer armies. World eaters army rule is fine but the rules in 9th just felt better. Especially since they royally screwed melee armies at the start of 10th. And even the limited models issue is the same for world eaters since even previously existing models were just deleted overnight which is the most ridiculous part to me. And there is no codex in the horizon yet so most likely a year with a damn limited roster
So Arthur, I know this comment is coming in when this video is about half a year old so you might not see it, but have you checked out the Immari from Ravaged Star? I wasn't too into the idea of the legs of both him, even though space dwarves are truly rad, but somehow the more classical appearance of the Immari spoke to me and I backed the campaign in such a way that I'm getting all their models.
People really can not read. It does not say that rolling a 4 = a 6, it says on a 4+ it auto wounds. That's it. All other weapons ext state an UNMODIFIED roll of a 6, rolling a 4 and MODIFYING it with gruge tokens is not unmodified. Beam weapons were cool
I can understand that a new faction will be unbalanced at first. It makes sense that when building an army immediately you ask "What is the gimmick?" and design the army in a way that makes it work on the tabletop. What that does though is, at least at first, make them overpowered as they have been battle tested before being actually put on the tabletop. This sort of design flaw can be seen when adding new things to any competitive environment. This however makes a nerf of that faction immediately necessary and they enter the field and are found to be too good. The lack of lore does interest me as I am curious why the writers haven't picked them up yet. I wonder what is preventing them from making some.
Im a sucker for dorfs. Every game ive ever played, I'll play the dorf option. Even in necromunda, i hated the heads so much, i dropped a 3/8" BB in instead. These dont look like dorfs.
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honestly if you just told me they were some short abhuman IG faction I would of just said "Oh cool I guess".
Votannbro here, I honestly think covid shat Votann up the wall production wise and units and lore weren't ready for 9th edition so gw hastily pushed them out and delayed the rest till 10th. Also makes sense they can't decide on a place for votann between elite/horde
@@HappyNoob17YT yes, the policy is still in full effect and GW would enforce it if they only knew how to use the internet. Guess who made exodite, guess why TTS died on the spot before the big finale. Guess why only fan content crafted actively is just chromatic rebranding of old official stuff without any creativity. GW done goof and they be big goof.
Had a game where I was losing badly but because I lost so many units he had so many tokens I wiped 5 units of Terminator/gravis bricks in one shooting phase with magna rails. Truly gross.
They came out purposefully broken.. I'm willing to bet someone in charge of the rules and a hard on for the space dwarves. In all my years of 40k, never seen an army so broken on release. I refuse to play against them.. No one in my local area plays with or against them anymore. Our tournament banned them cause they were so OP
I can only imagine GW won’t support this faction or have books written for them then when the Votan don’t get any popularity they will can the faction and go “well we tried to make the squats work again, they seem to just never be popular. Now don’t bother us about them.” Not saying thats what would happen, just it won’t surprise me.
@@travisjohnson622they honestly do just feel like short space marines with artillery did they have to give the faction bolters as an infantry weapon
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GW at its finest, make terrible decision about faction, ruin it, pretty much dump them in a backroom to waste away, then claim it is the fans fault the faction isnt popular and making them money.
AGREED! I was flabbergasted that they didn't have a novel lined up ready to go with the launch and flabbergasted that so much time has gone by and we STILL don't have a votan novel. They haven't even shown up as a side character in any novels.
Only a niche fan cares about that though. Eldar, Tau, Orkz, Tyranids, Necrons didn't launch with novels, just a codex. Most xenos still don't get thrown a bone when it comes to books as well. Necrons are the only ones that got a book that actually pumped the faction up.
@@Spaced92 true but at bare minimum they showed up as antagonists in books released around that time or were referenced by characters in the story. to date there is nothing like this for the votan. By all accounts they do not exists in universe outside of their codex.
I am very annoyed that the kill team isn't its own unit, Votann really needs more unit and they didn't made it its own unit, meanwhile imperium gets so many killteams as their own units that we have any entire army just for them >:c
I'm pretty optimistic about their long term future. Even if it may be a few years, we will eventually see enough new models and lore to flesh them out. Also the tone clash of 40k imagery and Omori music is pretty funny.
@@flanbeau Half the hobby is complaining about the hobby. If they did everything right and had a pro-costumer approach, we wouldn't have something to complain about.
11:19 That's not actually a rumor: Gav Thorpe is working on a Votann novel. He accidentally teased more than he should on his twitter account this year and we were able to get the title of a rough draft called "High Karl's" prior to him deleting it. The title is cut off, but it is explict that Thorpe is writing one of, if not the first Votann novel.
@marrvynswillames4975 Not a book, since I believe you're talking about One Million Years. That's a short story following a Cryptek. But otherwise that is correct
I remember watching an Auspex Tactics video from around the release of the LoV where he showed that the Brokhyr Ironmaster could theoretically kill Guilliman twice in a single turn. To say that they were broken upon release is an understatement.
Really interesting videos recently that are like a perfect merge of lore and retrospect of models and real life stuff! Keep it up man, absolutely amazing content!
Ignore this, replying to the wrong comment If it's any consolation, the titled "One Million Years" necron short story coming out this December does feature Kin as the antagonists of the story
The wargear blandefication isn't unique to this faction. They've done it to all the factions. 10th edition sucks ass imo. I'll be playing the game with 9th ed rules. They aren't great but I prefer flaver even if it is bloated
It’s GW. Remember they added World Eaters at the end of 9th then immediately announced that all the money spent on the codex, cards, new units ect is now wasted because we were making a new edition and will strip away all of the cool abilities of the army and Angron in particular but the free rules! Guys. Released a couple of rough drafts for like 2 units per army then proceeded to charge for a codex with the same artwork on some and the only difference being a unit (nids) that will be obsolete in a week. I want to play 40K but every time I get going they do something to make my time wasted.
@@drunkenastarte5243 I mean, WE and Guard were basically in the same boat in a competitive sense: they came out within a couple of weeks between one and the other for official play. The Guard codex had had a prerelease back in November, true enough, but GW had been very insistent that tournaments should not allow the new codex up to the full release (on January 28th 2023).
My issue with LoV starts with the Squats. They had some cool lore and unique tech, but for the most part they were just a glorified abhuman IG regiment. Worship of the Emperor was ingrained in their ancestor veneration, AdMech didn't declare them hereteks (in fact there is a Squat Tech Priest model), they fight chaos Squats with their human Commissar. So now the LoV come in to give them a fresh start, as their own faction independent from the Imperium. They don't worship the God-Emperor. They commit extreme tech heresy in both their AI leaders and Iron Men companions, so this is basically a Golden/Dark Age of Technology human faction that didn't get wiped by the Cybernetic Revolt or Great Crusade. This is insanely cool, and very unique as a faction in the lore, not just rules/gameplay. GWs choice is to go "they do a really good job keeping it a secret you guys". So their miniature range is dragged right back down to glorified pseudo-Imperial army, now with stunted Space Wolves. This is a deliberate effort by GW to make it that way, they even had rules to fight together with armies like Sisters of Battle and BT. They should have embraced the DA tech aspect, and have the Votann lead the faction openly in spite of the Imperium. Very stupid LoV fans read this take and go "so you think Votann should be field-able?". My reply is "If the God-Emperor was a complete secret, you think the design of Imperial factions would remain unchanged?". Of course not, it is a core pillar of Imperium fluff and aesthetic.
This all really comes down to GW - 1: Being greedy by OPing the Dwarves to max sales knowing they would nerf them in the next addition. 2: Licencing everything they can to the point of having to come up with R-tarded names for every nut and bolt-gun...🙃 2: Having their pweshious spwace mawhines over shadowed. GW died as a table top battle simulator the day it removed Front, Side and Rear Armour from its tanks, also giving the mahrines anti-grav was a massive mistake for aesthetics. Also also when they stopped calling them Imperial Guard.
I would say the biggest problem with the LOV situation is that the company that can't update most of its other armies (some in over 20 YEARS!) thought it would be great to add another army! And mess that up by not even making a fleshed out one at that... But God forbid if they don't get their quota of 20 primaris lieutenants every year! don't add another army you're only gonna update if it happens to be that year's enemy for the space marines... We already have enough of those
Hello TS player there along with Harle and Temspest. Wellcome to the family of the factions that got 1 big release and got forgotten ;_;. Be prepared to be tossed around with rules cos we just DONT have options in units...
As an admech player, I can’t help but feel like I’ve taken interest in yet another potentially overcosted army with rules that change like the weather, usually for the worse.
Imagine being a fan of beastmen who have been around since the beginning, technically never gone away, and have only a single book that they have to share the protagonist spot light half the time in. (Beastgrave)
welcome to the life of admech. Since i started admech in 2018- They were good for 6 months then nerfed to the ground and stayed garbage since then... thats almost 5 years.
Well the rule of GW is if its not a space marine or a primarch they dont give a shit about them sure they might release something but when it doesn't immediately sell as good as Space marines or heaven forbid over shadows the space marines too much it will be immediately nerfed into oblivion or completely forgotten about
It also makes me sad, they have so much potential but have gotten nothing besides a paragraph at most mentioning what their reaction is to the new events (like some people fighting an arc of omen or a group leaving when the nids showed up on a planet they were fighting for)
I joined 40k with the release of Votann and I absolutely agree, I feel like they need more time in the oven in terms of gameplay and balance, also need more lore etc... 10th edition killed their flavor a lot and now it feels like they simply shoot hard and are a bit sturdy, that's it. Unfortunately they are in a weird spot right now but im sure they will get the love they deserve in the future, it just takes time.
Personally? While I feel bad for the genuine shortking appreciators, I am sincerely in favor of anything that makes meta chasers suffer. The 10th ed backhand was sweet.
Fun fact: My first time playing 40k IRL was against Votann twice in a row at a tournament for 9th edition. Luckily my opponents were very cool dudes and fate has let my CSM get payback since then but it is a crying shame we have so little for them. They are a genuinely fascinating army, ive since fought them about 8 times in 10th and im happy to report that after buffs they're fun to fight, i do not dread or picture a pub stomp when i see dwarves now. That second release wave better be big because the dwarves deserve so much more variety in what they bring to the table and lore.
They literally did the same thing to me with Ynnari. I thought oh cool, all the space elves working together this will be awesome. Bought the boxes and started building. Guess they were a bit too good on release because they almost immediately got nerfed into the ground with there Strength From Death mechanic going from way to good to almost completely useless. Also they came out on the ass end of 8th ed making all the attachments the boxes were built around irrelevant in 9th just a few months later. GW is a bad company, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
I wouldn't give up on them. I think they have a lot of potential and everyone I know, including myself like their aesthetic. I am hopeful that in time the LoV grows with new miniatures that flesh out the range in a way that gives players more options in how to play them. More lore would be great too - not just in books, but video games too (i.e.: I see no reason why Darktide can't have a LoV character).
as a new player who was looking into his first army, i was disapointed in how Votann was just the dwarf version of space marines. They don't look like dwarfs... like at all.... I was hoping for them to be more industrial, with mining gear or something or more tribal with runes and stuff. But they're just space marines 2.0...... Their grudge mechanic kinda sucks too because you have to keep track of each grudge.... They really feel half assed. So i started with CSM instead hahaah.
Squats just got the xeno treatment and yes I won't ever call them votann like Imperial guard and eldar. They may throw you a bone once in a while, but will not be heavily supported by the company since they ain't space marines
The rules have been consistently shit, there is no background because rhey are a sales driven shoehorn and the models are atrocious for the setting; super generic for sci fi and super boring and clean for the imperium, it’s also quite clear as a kharadron player they cleaned up the arkanaut armour and just used that, its so clearly a copy of their infantry.I would have ro guess this is because gw has a stupid aversion to their more traditional fantasy races like dwarves that the squats were initially based off. I like the individual squats fw has done but even the actual squat unit is a miss for me for similar reasons. Tbh, I wouldn’t play them, with them in doubles, or against them, unless heavy conversion or 3d printing had been done to the whole army. All in all, from a design history perspective and a long time players perspective they’re soulless and bloat the game unnecessarily
And before everyone says but Tau were hated too, they were hated because they were too positive and sunny in a grim dark universe, these guys fall for the exact same trap, however Tau actually have lore that is better than the bare minimum to force their presence on players as if they’re just the same old squats refreshed. Their sculpts also work with grim dark or whatever aesthetic you choose to paint, but these are visually cartoony and I can’t see them looking right on a battlefield with anything other than a pure primaris force
@@MrConna6 I hate tau because they're better than the Raptor chapter. Also tech wise, the imperium would be well able to resist railgun fire, the great crusades proved that.
@@tarektechmarine8209 I mean a railgun is just a delivery method at the end of the day, same as a rifle. As we have no real usable knowledge on sustainable rail guns now as a civilisation and, afaik, (I don’t play tau) the ammunition is also a powerful force multiplier to the railguns existing lethality
I feel like Votann vs Tyranids would have been a way more interesting start to 10th then the Tyranids vs SpeSs MarINes we got. God I am so sick of Space Marines.
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It would of been like a legendary fight rematch, a vengeance round, the Space Dwarves with a chance to lay the smackdown on the bug boys. Could of been truly epic, but no of course the SM's get that yet again, I wish the Nids would evolve to kick the crap out of SM's only just to give other factions a chance at the spotlight again since every SM vs Buggies story would become "SM's got eaten, the end".
It's cathartic to see someone else talking about this. I wonder if they're going to soft retcon them by pulling the last of their support and never mentioning them again.
This seems to be the sad fate of a lot of armies. Daemons, Admech, Drukhari... at least Votann are good right now, albeit in a very unfun and bland way where you are basically just tossing +1 to hit and wound against any enemy unit that is remotely dangerous since you have so many of them.
Squats have always been a cursed subject with GW ever since they were first brought out back in the Rogue Trader days. They were fumbled back then and of course, they were fumbled again. I dont expect them to be done justice period. Much less continued. Much like any mistake GW has made they will come up with some retcon. Maybe they all will get eaten by Tyranids again. I still remember back in the day when they brought in chaos squats,,then the next day they never existed.
When I saw they were overpowered I knew that this was going to be somewhat of a repeat of what happened when the T’au were first released, but they got it even worse now. Now I’m worried that in the books (if they ever get them) they’ll get the T’au treatment even more and get clowned on by literally everything in lore despite supposedly being advanced tech wise. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had a random guardsman walk up and just rip the arm off an Einhyr Hearthguard.
they also changed the army from an elite army with high powered, high cost models to a guard style army but kept the high cost of the models. im so happy i 3d printed my votann army because i would have been FUCKING PISSED had i bought that army box only for the data cards and tokens to be immediately out of date and each unit become about half as weak without any point cost changes.
There's so much they could do with the Leagues. Imagine, a bigger Brokhyr Thunderkyn like a Dreadnought equivalent, give it drills and lasers and shit then bolt some big guns on it. More Hearthkyn. Make something like a crazy Lunar Lander flyer that's also a transport and has an ass-ton of sensors or guns. Artillery. ACTUAL FUCKING TANKS. Bet you we'll get exactly one character though. Just watch.
Woah, what a revelation. GW Hates you, and makes awful decisions as a result. What- a- shock. And I'm new here. SQUATS! THATS THE ONE THING I WANTED. Truly, I still don't care. If its good, it won't be worth it. And if its worth it, it won't be good. They'll also butcher the Lore, because I'm pretty sure you can't make SquatsMarines. But how funny?
Honestly the biggest fumble GW has done when it came to the LoV was that there where no Votann novels that came out with the box set in 9th. I would love more Capitalist Space Dwarves lore and stories but nope, here’s more Ultramarine novels
The Rowboat has a lot to answer for. 'Bout time the pesky smurfs were fed to nids.
The Votann are giant machines. Larger than anything else than titans. No we don’t need those models
The novels are such a good way to get us interested in them too! Especially because you - yeah, you, the person reading this comment, _JIM_ - have questions and you'd like to see them play out in-series. How do they see humanity, what about a novel that puts them in conflict with the Admech or Inquisition, do they get along with the Space Wolves, what's the deal with stuff like New Catachan?
DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE, BROTHA ⛏️??
@@hpenvy1106 ROCK AND STONE!!!!
Is it a coincidence that the edition that sees the elf faction rein supreme sees the dwarf faction wrought low? That's going in the book.
I want more League lore! I think your frustration is very justified here. It's really sad how many of their unique aspects has been gutted so soon after their release.
don't worry, gav thrope is on it. The guy that murdered the aeldari
@@Bnvnu 'Murdered the Aeldari'? can i have some context please? it sounds interesting
@@scrubgrunt5105 long story short, he's behind 90% of the eldar lore, and eldar players...do not like that. While he's good at world building, the combat aspect, not so much, as he believes them a dying race, and as such they cannot win, or at best have a phyric victory. But who would want to read books about your characters getting their behind kicked? That's why the third instalation of the ynnari trilogy got canceled, and the entire eldar species just became inexistant story wise afterwards (by that, i mean nothin lore and little, figurine wise), since the ynnari stole the main plot of the three other sub-faction and they then got guillotined. They're dead.
@@Bnvnu thanks for answering!
and thats horrible.... i just feel bad now for eldar players... :(
Are the Dark eldar/Druhkari also treated like this?
@@scrubgrunt5105not as bad, they do have a few good books and are allowed to be successful here and there . One time they stole an STC that could cure "everything" and turned it into another torture instrument, just for the sake of winning a competition for vect
They are fucking cool and its a shame that they were treated this way
Also we need more long beard for them
Yes. They changed too much from fantasy dwarves, which generally defeated the purpose of having space dwarves, but I could have forgiven it. But not having long beards is unforgivable.
I need more squat lore.
I want a Ciaphus cain book where he has to team up with a space dwarf
Warhammer miniatures are like being addicted to crack cocaine and by God your dealer GW knows that.
I love my votann! And I got them because I thought they were cool, and different also very versatile. But once 10th ed came around it felt like they sucked out everything I liked about the army except for the models themselves. Hopefully when their codex comes out, they get a full rework back into their unique glory. Rock and stone!
For Karl!
Reminder that the "Fix" was to just lower points so much that you flood the board, and now the win rate is just based on having too many bad units that you score more points than your opponent.
Yea it’s a shame that when I started reading their rules at the end of 9th like there was a day between me reading the “current” rules and then me reading the changes for 10th. What a roller coaster that was
The homogenization of melee seems to just be a thing in 10th. Comparing my passing familiarity with model rules in 9th and available load outs compared to 10th, GW seems to have favored streamlining over any sort of model customization. Most power weapons are now just “relic weapons” and the combi-weapons don’t even have individual stats anymore. There’s no difference between a combi-melta or combi-plasma. It’s all just too simple now, and that’s coming from someone who’s never played a game.
You nailed it, I come from a time when combi-weapons were truly a game changer and melee was still good.
Then i watched as my Nids slowly got nerfed directly and indirectly, melee got made so bad Nids were useless at it, they got weakened so that even if used for range the big boys could be dropped by end of turn 1 easily and then point values meant you had to take less and less instead of compensating by upping your numbers on the table.
Rock and Stone!
You should see if you can rope your online community into some kind of short story competition to generate Votann lit.
I thought GW fumbled from day 1 by not giving them more beard.
I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that Onepagerules makes Space Dwarf models too, not to mention Mantic's Forge Fathers line.
Using both to make my Space Dwarfs, as well as some from DenofImagination, McAngry minis, and Papsikel.
Best part is they actually look like Dwarfs and not smaller Space Marines XD
Oh good, someone else is incredibly mad about the sword option for the Khal being missing, ESPECIALLY SINCE IT'S A LOADOUT YOU CAN ACTUALLY MAKE OUT OF THE BASE KIT NOT JUST THE LIMITED EDITION!!!
I told myself I wouldn’t get into 40k until they added Dwarfs, two months later Votann came out.
I just want to see more from this faction, they have a huge amount of potential
I would tell you to get into Warhammer Fantasy buuut
@@al3xand993 I main the dwarves in Total War at least…
I feel it's just GW being GW as they have been for years, they just stopped trying to even look like they cared. the release of 10th seems like the focus is on making maximum profit off new customers with little to no focus on game support or balance.
As a huge Votann fan, this video sums up absolutely everything I love and hate about the faction. We need some novels asap. Great video, you’ve earned a sub 👍
Something I miss is a bit more ... nordic/viking look.
We already have a trillion dudes/dudettes with power armour. They have their own design. I dont hate it. But I dont love it either.
The Grimnyr looks how I wanted the entire army to look
I just started 40k in the summer and was trying to research LoV and was finding next to no info on the in the last few weeks. What you said further cements the results of the research, especially having no novels.
As a average dwarf enthusiast as well, I was really hoping that these dudes would be a bit like the fantasy dwarves. Some of it is there, but I really wanted more, dwarfy-ness. Big artillery batteries, really stout and up close guys with axes. They feel so disconnected from the universe, and part of it is that they have no lore right now, but I wish their aesthetic was more 40k if that makes sense.
I do think they fit the aesthetic tbh, they look a lot like Van Saars to me which makes sense for them being humans with tech
@@beowylfen It hurts lore wise for me, why the heck don't space marines or elite guard have similar tech. especially because it's human tech.
@@tarektechmarine8209 it's ancient tech that the Imperium no longer understands. It's a big theme with the Imperium that they're losing technology and back sliding more and more.
Also all Leagues weapons aside from beams do have Imperium equivalents
@@beowylfen I really hate how 40K does the whole "lost tech" trope. They are able to build and maintain entire war fleets of battleships that travel through space hell and arm their rank and file with laser rifles, but they are somehow losing technology?
Tbh world eaters had it even worse, they came out in like December. Tenth dropped in march. The codex was invalid in like 3 months
My biggest criticism is a stylistic one. Dwarves are the antithesis of Orks but should share the outlandish humor. There should be eye patches, weird haircuts, inventive and outlandish weapons ( like multi-melta trikes ). They are the survivors, on mining worlds and isolated regions, so they are a bit tropo, or should be. It could have been a fun army. Instead it's a bit meh. It's a game! They need more animal motifs, innovative gear and lore.
First clue should’ve been when GW teased Votann on April Fool’s day
You don't love them, you're addicted to buying GW slop. You confuse sunk cost fallacy and addiction to this. Hence why everyone just accepted the endless unnecessary editions, to mention nothing of the prices.
You know what? You've convinced me. These non xenos-xenos are cool lil guys. Also, ha, short-range ranged dwarves.
GW done them and the grexy knights dirty, no psychic phase makes my knights shit and the weapons are just nemewsis force weapons they took our cool hammers...GW really sucks in these
I was suspect of Votann just because not every mini had a beard. I don't want soulless, beardless dawi in my army.
According to rumors wave 2 is allegedly going to be out next year. I will caution some skepticism though as GW has fumbled EVERY dwarf race launch in Sigmar as well. Tiny as fuck initial mini armies that had no visual range to expand like fyre and Kharadron. Now rather than fix their mistakes and flesh these factions out PROPERLY with a major release wave GW and AoS has basically put a ban on all things KO and Fyre that isn't a single leader model release. It's a pretty dumb situation. I HOPE they give Votann their flavour back while not being OP as shit and continue to support them with books and models for decades... but looking at SIgmar has me sus as fuck.
hey guys guess what! the squats are back! aaaaand theyre gone again
i still want to buy the 9th ed book so i can enjoy the lore
Tyranid players: "first time?"
I think the last thing 40k needed was more armies. They should have fleshed out other factions instead of trying to add new ones to blanace.
I almost agree....except for the fact that if we're gonna be subjected to multiple flavors of Space Elves, then I want my Space Dwarfs!!!
GW just isn’t a good game manufacturer.
They make cool minis. They make cool lore.
They make cool fomo.
But they are horrible at balancing the game properly.
There are games SO much more rounded and well made.
Same goes for their little game boxes. Literally every game they make rulewise is done better by someone else. Only difference is that the others aren’t 40K.
But they profit from that tremendously. Because by balancing the imbalance correctly, you can „guide“ your customers into shifting products back and forth.
That’s why the Leagues only get a new shineup, when GW can capitalise on a ton of Fomo and „Wantnewshinything“.
Their games will never just be „good“. They want to be a little shitty.
Votann Players: "They are doing our army dirty. We are totally Nerfed in all the unique stuff we could do, and they ignore us in the Lore."
Tau players: "first time?"
Tau Players: "Just wait until they reintroduce your unique stuff as a new technology for the Space Marines, despite the fact that they don't have any tech progress."
Frankly, the beam weapons are a throw back to templates of yesteryore. I dearly miss templates, but bloody everyone else seems to really hate the slowdown of play that actual model positioning impacts on weapons and so forth causes. Most people like to just shove them as close together as possible for a variety of reasons, largely because it speeds things up and reduces the variation on what is and isn't in range.
I hate how the Leagues have AI, but not men of Iron. I was so hyped when I started learning some of their lore because I remember UR-025 from Black Stone Fortress and thought maybe we'd finally get some more lore on the men of iron. It would have been sick to see Men of Iron who chose to stick with humanity. But no, they just have generic dollar store google.
Also yay, another faction that's just immune to chaos for no good reason. How do Chaos players convince themselves that their gods are cool and they're the biggest threat to the setting when literally 99% of all life in the galaxy is just immune to their influence.
Yeah I will never understand that, Necrons sure, Nids fine, but Tau for example? So normal animals can be corrupted, plants can be corrupted, but Tau cannot or do not get corrupted?
I really love unique factions and unique mechanics. What they need is more tunneling stuff like the mole mortars and the boring machine transports, as well as more stuff that makes them slow and hard to kill. It’s dwarves after all. Maybe also something to fuck with psykers. Like rune stones in W.Fantasy. And why only Leagues of Votann? Give us a Squats faction and special rules for all the leagues. Not everyone is playing Ultramarines. Give us lore, flavor and options.
I haven't paid any attention to Leagues of Votann (I left that money sink long ago), but it sounds like they're on their way to be re-squatted.
And cool melee gear being just basic CC weapons? That annoyed me back in 6th with chainswords.
...honestly, I'd have just quit once they invalidated the book I paid good money for in a very obvious attempt to milk me for money. That sounds infuriating and I haven't touched a GW product in over a decade. And uh, will continue to NOT do that, good lord. Would like to see more of the Space Dwarves though. I would've expected actual tanks from them, as opposed to like...rovers, though.
This is why many older players have moved on to other games, heck in Battletech you can still run a bunch of metal minis from the 90's with the newer rule, or run newer plastic minis with rules from the 90's.
GW really never considered that back and forward compatibility is a GOOD THING!
Well, it seems a common theme with their newer armies. World eaters army rule is fine but the rules in 9th just felt better.
Especially since they royally screwed melee armies at the start of 10th.
And even the limited models issue is the same for world eaters since even previously existing models were just deleted overnight which is the most ridiculous part to me.
And there is no codex in the horizon yet so most likely a year with a damn limited roster
RATTO HEARD
also they just need gav to release his book
They'll either end up like Squats (again) or Tau.
Actually at first they didn't have hand to hand weapons.
So Arthur, I know this comment is coming in when this video is about half a year old so you might not see it, but have you checked out the Immari from Ravaged Star? I wasn't too into the idea of the legs of both him, even though space dwarves are truly rad, but somehow the more classical appearance of the Immari spoke to me and I backed the campaign in such a way that I'm getting all their models.
People really can not read.
It does not say that rolling a 4 = a 6, it says on a 4+ it auto wounds. That's it. All other weapons ext state an UNMODIFIED roll of a 6, rolling a 4 and MODIFYING it with gruge tokens is not unmodified.
Beam weapons were cool
I can understand that a new faction will be unbalanced at first. It makes sense that when building an army immediately you ask "What is the gimmick?" and design the army in a way that makes it work on the tabletop. What that does though is, at least at first, make them overpowered as they have been battle tested before being actually put on the tabletop. This sort of design flaw can be seen when adding new things to any competitive environment. This however makes a nerf of that faction immediately necessary and they enter the field and are found to be too good.
The lack of lore does interest me as I am curious why the writers haven't picked them up yet. I wonder what is preventing them from making some.
Im a sucker for dorfs. Every game ive ever played, I'll play the dorf option.
Even in necromunda, i hated the heads so much, i dropped a 3/8" BB in instead.
These dont look like dorfs.
honestly if you just told me they were some short abhuman IG faction I would of just said "Oh cool I guess".
i want more, and for the squat train to return
I forgot they were a thing in the lore
As a harlequins player… I feel your pain
Votannbro here, I honestly think covid shat Votann up the wall production wise and units and lore weren't ready for 9th edition so gw hastily pushed them out and delayed the rest till 10th. Also makes sense they can't decide on a place for votann between elite/horde
GW should stop using a Magic 8-Ball to make corporate decisions.
That made my day.
How about we get rid of corporate altogether and someone buys gw and turns the company private.
no can do, who will sue the fans for making fan-animations and fanart then?
@@secretname2670 are they still doing that?
@@HappyNoob17YT yes, the policy is still in full effect and GW would enforce it if they only knew how to use the internet.
Guess who made exodite, guess why TTS died on the spot before the big finale. Guess why only fan content crafted actively is just chromatic rebranding of old official stuff without any creativity.
GW done goof and they be big goof.
I remember reading the the Leagues rules at the end of 9th, and thinking "WTF? This army literally punishes your opponent for playing the game."
“What if we made a faction who can build/upgrade mid battle? Na fuck you”
Yeah, they went to far with handing out tokens.
Should've just given them out when one of your units die.
Had a game where I was losing badly but because I lost so many units he had so many tokens I wiped 5 units of Terminator/gravis bricks in one shooting phase with magna rails. Truly gross.
They came out purposefully broken.. I'm willing to bet someone in charge of the rules and a hard on for the space dwarves. In all my years of 40k, never seen an army so broken on release. I refuse to play against them.. No one in my local area plays with or against them anymore. Our tournament banned them cause they were so OP
LoV I everything people cry tau are but worse and with actual toughness and melee added.
ALL WE WANTED was dwarves with lazers, bikers with axes, ancient elders in power armor IN SPACE!
AND GLYPHIDS!
I can only imagine GW won’t support this faction or have books written for them then when the Votan don’t get any popularity they will can the faction and go “well we tried to make the squats work again, they seem to just never be popular. Now don’t bother us about them.”
Not saying thats what would happen, just it won’t surprise me.
So they’re gonna resquat the squats?
sad, cuz they did such a poor job. Theyre not even the squats. Toddler space marines dont count.
@@travisjohnson622they honestly do just feel like short space marines with artillery did they have to give the faction bolters as an infantry weapon
GW at its finest, make terrible decision about faction, ruin it, pretty much dump them in a backroom to waste away, then claim it is the fans fault the faction isnt popular and making them money.
If they haven't done it with TS I doupt they do it to the squats😅
AGREED! I was flabbergasted that they didn't have a novel lined up ready to go with the launch and flabbergasted that so much time has gone by and we STILL don't have a votan novel. They haven't even shown up as a side character in any novels.
Hi Wes
Pretty sure they didn't expect the HYPE.
Only a niche fan cares about that though. Eldar, Tau, Orkz, Tyranids, Necrons didn't launch with novels, just a codex. Most xenos still don't get thrown a bone when it comes to books as well. Necrons are the only ones that got a book that actually pumped the faction up.
@@Spaced92 true but at bare minimum they showed up as antagonists in books released around that time or were referenced by characters in the story. to date there is nothing like this for the votan. By all accounts they do not exists in universe outside of their codex.
"oh no, we took away all the votanns rules and stats and now they suck, what do we do?"
"just let them field twice as many dudes bro"
Leagues of Votann: Good concept, botched execution.
Looks at primaris with contempt.
I am very annoyed that the kill team isn't its own unit, Votann really needs more unit and they didn't made it its own unit, meanwhile imperium gets so many killteams as their own units that we have any entire army just for them >:c
My only thing with that is that kasrkin and novitiates are very different units to preexisting squads. The squat kill team is just a warrior box
What do you mean? The leagues kill-team is it's own unit most of the leagues kill-team models are unique models
@@XD-sc4ix in 40k they aren't their own unit, I think 2 or maybe 3 of the salvagers equipment is listed as an option for standard hearthkyn squads
@@XD-sc4ix in 40k they aren't their own unit, I think 2 or maybe 3 of the salvagers equipment is listed as an option for standard hearthkyn squads
I feel the same way about the heirotek unit for necrons. A bodyguard unit for crypteks would be SO rad
I'm pretty optimistic about their long term future. Even if it may be a few years, we will eventually see enough new models and lore to flesh them out. Also the tone clash of 40k imagery and Omori music is pretty funny.
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
-GW motto
"There can be no true despair without hope" -- Bane
"I love to take punishment. Hit me hard, master. Here is my money, have a lot of it." -Every GW customer.
@@flanbeau Half the hobby is complaining about the hobby. If they did everything right and had a pro-costumer approach, we wouldn't have something to complain about.
11:19
That's not actually a rumor: Gav Thorpe is working on a Votann novel. He accidentally teased more than he should on his twitter account this year and we were able to get the title of a rough draft called "High Karl's" prior to him deleting it.
The title is cut off, but it is explict that Thorpe is writing one of, if not the first Votann novel.
I am pretty sure that GW also said in a community article, that LoV novels are coming.
@@KurtKn1sp3lAmazon got an entry for a book by Nate Crowley (who made Twice Dead King) with the votann as antagonists
@@marrvynswillames4975
Not a book, that was the Necron dhort story One Million Years
@marrvynswillames4975
Not a book, since I believe you're talking about One Million Years. That's a short story following a Cryptek. But otherwise that is correct
@@georgekerscher5355 Tanks to you both.
I remember watching an Auspex Tactics video from around the release of the LoV where he showed that the Brokhyr Ironmaster could theoretically kill Guilliman twice in a single turn. To say that they were broken upon release is an understatement.
Really interesting videos recently that are like a perfect merge of lore and retrospect of models and real life stuff! Keep it up man, absolutely amazing content!
Ignore this, replying to the wrong comment
If it's any consolation, the titled "One Million Years" necron short story coming out this December does feature Kin as the antagonists of the story
The wargear blandefication isn't unique to this faction. They've done it to all the factions. 10th edition sucks ass imo. I'll be playing the game with 9th ed rules. They aren't great but I prefer flaver even if it is bloated
Flavour*
It’s GW. Remember they added World Eaters at the end of 9th then immediately announced that all the money spent on the codex, cards, new units ect is now wasted because we were making a new edition and will strip away all of the cool abilities of the army and Angron in particular but the free rules! Guys. Released a couple of rough drafts for like 2 units per army then proceeded to charge for a codex with the same artwork on some and the only difference being a unit (nids) that will be obsolete in a week. I want to play 40K but every time I get going they do something to make my time wasted.
Yeah, was surprised when the roadmap for 10th came out and votann wasnt in the near-term. Hopefully Votann is up soon. Would love some lore
Sadly they'll be patched onto the end of this edition with maybe 1 new unit and will become the new admech
At least Votann got to actually USE their 9th ed codex. My poor Guard...
At least Guard had 3-4 months
My poor WE's had what, 3-4 weeks? And 90% of our existing army roster was tossed in the flaming dumpster to boot.
@@drunkenastarte5243 I mean, WE and Guard were basically in the same boat in a competitive sense: they came out within a couple of weeks between one and the other for official play. The Guard codex had had a prerelease back in November, true enough, but GW had been very insistent that tournaments should not allow the new codex up to the full release (on January 28th 2023).
My issue with LoV starts with the Squats. They had some cool lore and unique tech, but for the most part they were just a glorified abhuman IG regiment. Worship of the Emperor was ingrained in their ancestor veneration, AdMech didn't declare them hereteks (in fact there is a Squat Tech Priest model), they fight chaos Squats with their human Commissar.
So now the LoV come in to give them a fresh start, as their own faction independent from the Imperium. They don't worship the God-Emperor. They commit extreme tech heresy in both their AI leaders and Iron Men companions, so this is basically a Golden/Dark Age of Technology human faction that didn't get wiped by the Cybernetic Revolt or Great Crusade. This is insanely cool, and very unique as a faction in the lore, not just rules/gameplay.
GWs choice is to go "they do a really good job keeping it a secret you guys". So their miniature range is dragged right back down to glorified pseudo-Imperial army, now with stunted Space Wolves. This is a deliberate effort by GW to make it that way, they even had rules to fight together with armies like Sisters of Battle and BT. They should have embraced the DA tech aspect, and have the Votann lead the faction openly in spite of the Imperium.
Very stupid LoV fans read this take and go "so you think Votann should be field-able?". My reply is "If the God-Emperor was a complete secret, you think the design of Imperial factions would remain unchanged?". Of course not, it is a core pillar of Imperium fluff and aesthetic.
The Votann should have been Xenos, we already have too many human armies as is to begin with, and having a pseudo-Dark Age faction isn't helping.
This all really comes down to GW -
1: Being greedy by OPing the Dwarves to max sales knowing they would nerf them in the next addition.
2: Licencing everything they can to the point of having to come up with R-tarded names for every nut and bolt-gun...🙃
2: Having their pweshious spwace mawhines over shadowed.
GW died as a table top battle simulator the day it removed Front, Side and Rear Armour from its tanks, also giving the mahrines anti-grav was a massive mistake for aesthetics. Also also when they stopped calling them Imperial Guard.
I would say the biggest problem with the LOV situation is that the company that can't update most of its other armies (some in over 20 YEARS!) thought it would be great to add another army! And mess that up by not even making a fleshed out one at that... But God forbid if they don't get their quota of 20 primaris lieutenants every year! don't add another army you're only gonna update if it happens to be that year's enemy for the space marines... We already have enough of those
Hello TS player there along with Harle and Temspest. Wellcome to the family of the factions that got 1 big release and got forgotten ;_;. Be prepared to be tossed around with rules cos we just DONT have options in units...
As an admech player, I can’t help but feel like I’ve taken interest in yet another potentially overcosted army with rules that change like the weather, usually for the worse.
Imagine being a fan of beastmen who have been around since the beginning, technically never gone away, and have only a single book that they have to share the protagonist spot light half the time in. (Beastgrave)
And now they got squatted back to the old world
welcome to the life of admech. Since i started admech in 2018- They were good for 6 months then nerfed to the ground and stayed garbage since then... thats almost 5 years.
Well the rule of GW is if its not a space marine or a primarch they dont give a shit about them sure they might release something but when it doesn't immediately sell as good as Space marines or heaven forbid over shadows the space marines too much it will be immediately nerfed into oblivion or completely forgotten about
Games Workshop try to make good xenos content challenge (impossible 100% fail (gone wrong (primaris drop soon)))
It also makes me sad, they have so much potential but have gotten nothing besides a paragraph at most mentioning what their reaction is to the new events (like some people fighting an arc of omen or a group leaving when the nids showed up on a planet they were fighting for)
That's a lot of Grudges against GW, making this video lore accurate!
So you're telling me this has been a litany of mistakes? How very Warhammer and lore-friendly of James Workshop.
PS love the background music! 😃
I joined 40k with the release of Votann and I absolutely agree, I feel like they need more time in the oven in terms of gameplay and balance, also need more lore etc... 10th edition killed their flavor a lot and now it feels like they simply shoot hard and are a bit sturdy, that's it. Unfortunately they are in a weird spot right now but im sure they will get the love they deserve in the future, it just takes time.
“I joined this hobby incredibly recently compared to most of you. Let me explain the game’s problems to you.”
@@N0TYALC sorry that ive done my research and need less time to learn games than you 🤷
Personally?
While I feel bad for the genuine shortking appreciators, I am sincerely in favor of anything that makes meta chasers suffer. The 10th ed backhand was sweet.
Imagine your kink in life was winning with little toy soldiers😂
Fun fact: My first time playing 40k IRL was against Votann twice in a row at a tournament for 9th edition. Luckily my opponents were very cool dudes and fate has let my CSM get payback since then but it is a crying shame we have so little for them. They are a genuinely fascinating army, ive since fought them about 8 times in 10th and im happy to report that after buffs they're fun to fight, i do not dread or picture a pub stomp when i see dwarves now. That second release wave better be big because the dwarves deserve so much more variety in what they bring to the table and lore.
They literally did the same thing to me with Ynnari. I thought oh cool, all the space elves working together this will be awesome. Bought the boxes and started building. Guess they were a bit too good on release because they almost immediately got nerfed into the ground with there Strength From Death mechanic going from way to good to almost completely useless. Also they came out on the ass end of 8th ed making all the attachments the boxes were built around irrelevant in 9th just a few months later. GW is a bad company, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
I wouldn't give up on them. I think they have a lot of potential and everyone I know, including myself like their aesthetic. I am hopeful that in time the LoV grows with new miniatures that flesh out the range in a way that gives players more options in how to play them. More lore would be great too - not just in books, but video games too (i.e.: I see no reason why Darktide can't have a LoV character).
as a new player who was looking into his first army, i was disapointed in how Votann was just the dwarf version of space marines. They don't look like dwarfs... like at all.... I was hoping for them to be more industrial, with mining gear or something or more tribal with runes and stuff. But they're just space marines 2.0......
Their grudge mechanic kinda sucks too because you have to keep track of each grudge.... They really feel half assed.
So i started with CSM instead hahaah.
"To have a codex released, and then in 3 months it's just invalidated, it's just weird."
You haven't been dealing with GW very long, have you?
Squats just got the xeno treatment and yes I won't ever call them votann like Imperial guard and eldar.
They may throw you a bone once in a while, but will not be heavily supported by the company since they ain't space marines
The rules have been consistently shit, there is no background because rhey are a sales driven shoehorn and the models are atrocious for the setting; super generic for sci fi and super boring and clean for the imperium, it’s also quite clear as a kharadron player they cleaned up the arkanaut armour and just used that, its so clearly a copy of their infantry.I would have ro guess this is because gw has a stupid aversion to their more traditional fantasy races like dwarves that the squats were initially based off. I like the individual squats fw has done but even the actual squat unit is a miss for me for similar reasons. Tbh, I wouldn’t play them, with them in doubles, or against them, unless heavy conversion or 3d printing had been done to the whole army. All in all, from a design history perspective and a long time players perspective they’re soulless and bloat the game unnecessarily
And before everyone says but Tau were hated too, they were hated because they were too positive and sunny in a grim dark universe, these guys fall for the exact same trap, however Tau actually have lore that is better than the bare minimum to force their presence on players as if they’re just the same old squats refreshed. Their sculpts also work with grim dark or whatever aesthetic you choose to paint, but these are visually cartoony and I can’t see them looking right on a battlefield with anything other than a pure primaris force
@@MrConna6 I hate tau because they're better than the Raptor chapter. Also tech wise, the imperium would be well able to resist railgun fire, the great crusades proved that.
@@tarektechmarine8209 I mean a railgun is just a delivery method at the end of the day, same as a rifle. As we have no real usable knowledge on sustainable rail guns now as a civilisation and, afaik, (I don’t play tau) the ammunition is also a powerful force multiplier to the railguns existing lethality
I feel like Votann vs Tyranids would have been a way more interesting start to 10th then the Tyranids vs SpeSs MarINes we got. God I am so sick of Space Marines.
It would of been like a legendary fight rematch, a vengeance round, the Space Dwarves with a chance to lay the smackdown on the bug boys.
Could of been truly epic, but no of course the SM's get that yet again, I wish the Nids would evolve to kick the crap out of SM's only just to give other factions a chance at the spotlight again since every SM vs Buggies story would become "SM's got eaten, the end".
It's cathartic to see someone else talking about this. I wonder if they're going to soft retcon them by pulling the last of their support and never mentioning them again.
This seems to be the sad fate of a lot of armies. Daemons, Admech, Drukhari... at least Votann are good right now, albeit in a very unfun and bland way where you are basically just tossing +1 to hit and wound against any enemy unit that is remotely dangerous since you have so many of them.
Squats have always been a cursed subject with GW ever since they were first brought out back in the Rogue Trader days. They were fumbled back then and of course, they were fumbled again. I dont expect them to be done justice period. Much less continued. Much like any mistake GW has made they will come up with some retcon. Maybe they all will get eaten by Tyranids again. I still remember back in the day when they brought in chaos squats,,then the next day they never existed.
When I saw they were overpowered I knew that this was going to be somewhat of a repeat of what happened when the T’au were first released, but they got it even worse now. Now I’m worried that in the books (if they ever get them) they’ll get the T’au treatment even more and get clowned on by literally everything in lore despite supposedly being advanced tech wise. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had a random guardsman walk up and just rip the arm off an Einhyr Hearthguard.
they also changed the army from an elite army with high powered, high cost models to a guard style army but kept the high cost of the models. im so happy i 3d printed my votann army because i would have been FUCKING PISSED had i bought that army box only for the data cards and tokens to be immediately out of date and each unit become about half as weak without any point cost changes.
There's so much they could do with the Leagues. Imagine, a bigger Brokhyr Thunderkyn like a Dreadnought equivalent, give it drills and lasers and shit then bolt some big guns on it. More Hearthkyn. Make something like a crazy Lunar Lander flyer that's also a transport and has an ass-ton of sensors or guns. Artillery. ACTUAL FUCKING TANKS.
Bet you we'll get exactly one character though. Just watch.
I’d love a gyrocopter, amech large heavy hitter and more lore. I’m still enjoying what we’ve had so far.
Legit one of my favourite factions, but like there’s no lore, no stories, and one named character
Same I just wish there was more
Woah, what a revelation. GW Hates you, and makes awful decisions as a result.
What- a- shock. And I'm new here. SQUATS! THATS THE ONE THING I WANTED. Truly, I still don't care. If its good, it won't be worth it. And if its worth it, it won't be good. They'll also butcher the Lore, because I'm pretty sure you can't make SquatsMarines. But how funny?