Wow...this is gonna take some time to digest. Toranaga played us BIG TIME Want to watch 4 weeks EARLY and access our UNCUT reactions? Join us on Patreon! www.patreon.com/spartanandpudgey
"Why tell a dead man the future" is a callback to Yabushige saying that exact line to Omi, about Toranaga, in either the first or second episode. Revealing that Omi was also a spy for Toranaga.
A good series alternative if you have Shogun blues is Blue Eye Samurai: action packed, great flawed characters and a beautiful cinematography. Hope you take the time to watch it: on your own or as a reaction series. Enjoy!😊
@@Christian-el2bz It doesn't reveal that Omi was the spy. Omi could have been a spy, but also, he could have reported that to Toranaga after receiving the information about Mariko's death.
@@danbadd Sure, you could be right. But I think it's far more likely that they have kept Omi's role from the book where he is a spy. Which is why things make better sense, when you realize that Toranaga had many spies.
@39:00 When you said you feel like there’s more to that question, that’s because in the first episode of Shōgun, Yabushige said to Omi “why tell a dead man the future?” when they were talking about Toranaga. That’s probably why you felt there was more to it. I actually had to watch reaction videos just to understand it and be reminded of it
That wasn't John's future we saw. He hallucinated it. He dropped Mariko's rosary beads with Fuji (can't believe you didn't show that scene!) that he was holding in his hallucination. He couldn't have had them. Also, the show runners said it was a hallucination in an interview.
That was the one mis-step this show made, they didnt make it clear enough it wasnt a flash forward, most people assumed it was the certain future which ruined the tension in his attempted suicide scene, as it did for these two. They should have had the Fuji ashes scene before it where he let go of the cross in to the lake, or made it much more clear he was just dreaming of his future.
@@sonofsomerset1695Personally, I disagree - I doubted the "flash-forward" scenes from the start, since both of them happened while John was unconscious. With that in mind, John's Seppuku scene still had a lot of tension & ambiguity - and once he dropped the rosary from the boat, it confirmed my suspicions. I can see how many were confused, but to me the way it played out was extremely satisfying!
@@captain_britain Yeah, but he dropped the cross after the seppuku attempt, that's why Id have prefered that scene first. As you saw from these guys, many people didnt get that it was a dream so assumed John wasnt going to die there.
@@sonofsomerset1695 Yeah, you're right that it would've been more logical to present those scenes in the opposite order. I guess I just didn't mind it this way because I still doubted that John would ever leave Japan, even before it was confirmed by the boat/rosary scene.
I'm afraid you have until sunset tomorrow to explain why you didn't include the boat scene with John and Fuji. Jokes aside, this has become one of my favorite seasons of TV. I understand some people kind of expect a final battle of sorts. I'm sort of a sucker for simply character driven stories and this sort of thing doesn't really disappoint me. I don't think I could have asked for a more fulfilling finale.
Historically speaking, Japan was in the Sengoku period for about 140 years, with wars occurring all over the country. In 1600, Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga), the model for the main character, won a major battle against the Western Army led by Ishida Mitsunari (Ishido) in an attempt to put an end to that period, and captured and beheaded Ishida (Ishido). In 1603, he officially became "Seii Taishogun" (shogun) and established a shogunate in Edo (present-day Tokyo). By the way, it is the emperor who appoints the shogun. The emperor is always superior. In 1615, he destroyed his only enemy, the Osaka side, in two wars, and completely took control of the country (Taiko's son and his mother (Ochiba) committed suicide, and Osaka Castle burned down at that time). After that, his family name continued for 15 generations, and he continued the world of peace as shogun for a long period of 250 years. Although there were many sacrifices, the main character laid the foundation for this. By the way, although it is currently 2024, it has only been 156 years since the Edo Shogunate came to an end in 1868. This shows just how long 250 years without war is. Finally, the Imperial Palace (in front of Tokyo Station), where the Emperor currently resides, is built on the site of Edo Castle, which was built by Tokugawa Ieyasu when he became Shogun.
Super post. If I could lay out a little more: Three men tried to unify Japan starting in about the 1570s. The first was Oda Nobunaga. He was betrayed by his general Akemi Mutsuhide, who is "Mariko's" father. "Mariko" was based partly on Hosokawa Gracia or Gurasha, who was born Akemi Tama, Akemi Mutsuhide's daughter. The second of the unifiers was Toyotomi Hideyoshi. That was the Taiko. Toyotomi Hideyoshi was of peasant origin, so either refused, or was never offered, the title of Shogun. Finally came Tokugawa Ieyasu, the model for Toranaga Yoshii. The three men were contemporaries, but in the end it was the Tokugawa family that ruled Japan for 300 years.
@@andrewcrowder4958 Thank you. It's going to be a long story, but I'll explain a little about the relationship between the three men because it's interesting. In 1534, a man appeared who put an end to the 140-year-long Sengoku period. It was Oda Nobunaga. He was the most brilliant military commander in Japanese history, and had all the elements. He was an innovative person who excelled not only in military affairs, but also in economy, diplomacy, governance, culture, and art. The second, Toyotomi Hideyoshi (Taiko), was born a farmer, but became a samurai to get ahead in life, and in 1554 became a retainer of Oda Nobunaga. Although he was a low-ranking officer, he rose to great heights due to his natural talent, and grew into a general who could be entrusted with a unit of the Oda army. He is said to be the person who rose to great heights in Japanese history. However, after the death of Oda Nobunaga, he took over and unified the country, but because he was born a farmer, he could not become Seii Taishogun. Incidentally, "Taiko" is the title of a position that assists the emperor, and the rank is very high. Although he is not a shogun, he actually rules Japan. The third person is the main character of this program, Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga). He allied with Oda Nobunaga in 1562. At that time, both were just lords of small countries, but since they were neighbors of Oda Nobunaga, they sought a way to survive by forming an alliance. Toyotomi Hideyoshi (Taiko) and Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga) had absolute respect for Oda Nobunaga, and at that time they had no intention of aiming for the world. Around 1580, Oda Nobunaga, together with his excellent subordinates and his ally Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga), defeated many rivals and took control of 60% of Japan. In the same year, Oda Nobunaga gave troops to each general in order to unify the country, and began military operations to seize the remaining territories (Toyotomi Hideyoshi (Taiko) was one of them). While each army was steadily invading, Oda Nobunaga himself remained in Kyoto (the center of Japan where the emperor lived at the time) and took command of the entire operation, but he was caught off guard and betrayed by his subordinate, Akechi Mitsuhide. On June 2, 1582, Oda Nobunaga was attacked in the middle of the night and continued to fight with a small number of soldiers until the middle of the battle, but he realized that his death was near and committed suicide. He refused to hand over his body to the enemy and burned it together with the Honnoji temple where he was staying. This is called the Honnoji Incident (13,000 men in Akechi Mitsuhide's army vs. 160 men in Oda Nobunaga's army). At this time, Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga), who had been invited to Kyoto by Oda Nobunaga, was also nearly killed, but he managed to escape. Toyotomi Hideyoshi (Taiko), who was on a campaign as a military commander, heard the news and returned to Kyoto before anyone else. He then fought the traitor Akechi Mitsuhide and won. Akechi Mitsuhide died here. As mentioned, Akechi Mitsuhide's daughter was Hosokawa Gracia (Mariko). In other words, in the eyes of the world, she was the "daughter of a traitor" who betrayed and killed Oda Nobunaga, who was a great man and her lord. As a result, her relationship with her husband deteriorated and she became estranged from her children. She became a Christian to ease her suffering. Now, Toyotomi Hideyoshi (Taiko), who had avenged his lord, took over all of Oda Nobunaga's base with skillful political strategies and battles, and aimed to unify the country. In 1586, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, who was aiming for the world, fought Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga) for seven months, but the battle was not concluded. So Toyotomi Hideyoshi appeased Tokugawa Ieyasu by doubling his territory, and eventually brought him under his control. After that, in 1591, he took over the country and became Taiko, but as mentioned at the beginning of the second story of the Shogun, he died in his bed in 1598. At that time, he left behind a will that the country be ruled by the Five Elders. In other words, in order to completely end the Sengoku period, Oda Nobunaga first built the foundations for a unified country, and then his vassal Toyotomi Hideyoshi inherited Nobunaga's will and foundations and achieved unification of the country, but after Toyotomi Hideyoshi's death, Tokugawa Ieyasu was ultimately declared the victor. In hindsight, Toyotomi Hideyoshi should have defeated Tokugawa Ieyasu rather than trying to appease him. Conversely, Ieyasu, despite being outnumbered, fought Hideyoshi to a draw, and survived by playing politics, which is why he was given his chance.
When you realized that in the end, Ishido and Ochiba (and the Taiko) were right all along! Toranaga did in fact planned to kill the heir. The difference is the timing. He wanted to kill the heir AFTER he already usurped the throne as the shogun. We should also remember that Toranaga was the root cause of Mariko’s miserable life in the first place. He manipulated her father into killing the ruler that got his family killed then took Mariko under his wings to groom her into a sacrificial lamb for his “Crimson Sky” plan. And about Blackthorne, when the prison priest warned him back in episode 2 that “If Toranaga sees you as an ally, you will never leave Japan alive”, the priest was right. Blackthorne never left Japan because Toranaga didn’t let him. It happened like this in real life as well. The Shogun Tokugawa Ieyasu (real life Toranaga) never allowed William Adams (real life Blakthorne) to leave the country. He died in Japan and his bones are still in Nagasaki until these days. Also don’t forget that he didn’t care that his son died because “he has the other sons” and he’s very comfortable to sacrifice his own best friend for his plans. Toranaga is a selfish manipulative scumbag just like Yabushige. The difference is that he hid it so well under his honorable exterior. It’s like a Tywin Lannister with Ned Stark persona.
William Adams left Japan several times on expeditions to other parts of Asia and returned. He was eventually given permission to return to England for good but he chose to remain in Japan.
I think you are overreading things into Toranaga. He _does_ manipulate, but as he said, he doesn't "shape the wind", he studies it (as in, adjusts to it and uses it to his own advantage). He didn't sacrifice his son (Nagakado did what he did after talking to Fuji, who most certainly was expressing her own opinions and not Toranaga's), nor ask Hiromatsu to do what he did (Toranaga was literally holding back tears when he had the eye-to-eye contact with Hiromatsu, his eyes are red, and we can see Hiromatsu deciding to sacrifice himself as a reaction to the lords trying to pull their weapons and _he_ is the one who convinced Toranaga to go through with it), nor did he get an earthquake to decimate his own army. He wasn't sure that Saeki would betray him when he sent him word, and at least as far as the show is concerned (don't know if it's the same in the book), he wasn't the one who manipulated Mariko's father, that man acted based on his own morals and principles (you can even see Toranaga _preventing_ Akechi from attacking in Ochiba's memory, Ochiba is just being paranoid about him there). Yabushige decided to be disloyal on his own, he could've chosen otherwise. But since Toranaga knew what kind of a man he was, he was able to account for Yabushige's disloyalty in his plans and take advantage of it. The reading that it's all Toranaga's manipulation invalidates the actions and decisions of every other character in the story that isn't Toranaga. He _does_ use the situation to his advantage (such as giving Mariko a new purpose rather than just letting her divorce her husband and commit suicide, and framing it as Mariko's father wanting her to finish his job, which he probably didn't, he just wanted his favorite child safe), but Mariko was always suicidal after what happened, and it was Buntaro's decision to not let her die, and Toranaga decided to use that and both potentially give her what she desires (in the event of her demise, which wasn't certain) but also get something useful in return rather than just her death. He probably had Omi spy for him on Yabushige before the series even started though, and other things of that nature. However, yes, he _always_ desired to be the Shogun and he manipulated both Daiyoin as well as the late Taiko (the latter probably still knew to some extent, and even Daiyoin would rather Toranaga have power over, from her POV, "peasants" like Ishido so I don't think she went into it blindly). His desire was made obvious when he asked Yabushige to watch the sunrise with him (the rising sun is a symbol of his shogunate historically), or when John saw the armor that Mariko says he had commissioned a while ago after a dream (which is displayed similarly to the way the Taiko's one is in Osaka), or when he gives Gin the piece of land before departing for Edo. The narrative of course hints at it back in episode one with Rodriguez' voiceover talking about the secret heart. He is most certainly not a hero, but he isn't a pure emotionless villain playing 4D chess with everyone's lives either.
Tokugawa Ieyasu more likes ride the wind and just tries his best to get through it alive while trying to get into power. He is power hungry, but at the presence of more powerful men than him, he waits....hence the famous quote of the three great unifiers of Japan. He is a MINAMOTO (Minowara in the show) after all, blood thirsty and political dragons.
"Toranaga did in fact planned to kill the heir. The difference is the timing. He wanted to kill the heir AFTER he already usurped the throne as the shogun." Zero evidence for this, and totally contrary to Japanese history. What happened during shogunates was that there were puppet emperors that were just there for show, but the emperors weren't killed for that reason, at least not unless they tried to stage something to depose the shogun.
@@vamvetozuo9746 Sacrificing TH-cam quality for Patreon is an easy way stunt your growth on both platforms. Disappointing if true. Patreon should always supplement content, not take away from it.
Ironic because those were the exact words Yabashige used to John very early in the series. I think the smirk from Yaba before he commited Sepiku was him aknowledging that Toranaga has known everything from the start even the things he's said to other people.
@@Dizzyruptor I think it may be because Yabushige has been obsessed with knowing death and now it is finally happening and he truly knows what it is to face/experience death.
John never leaves Japan. The name of the episode, "A Dream of a Dream," refers to both John's hallucinatory dream of returning home which he rejects when he let's Mariko go, and Toranaga's secret dream of becoming Shogun.
@@Daminionz Couldn't agree more. The whole fake "time jump" was unnecessary and diluted the impact of John's attempted seppuku. Having read the novel back in 1978, there are a number of things that mak e me scratch my head about the production but overall it is magnificent.
The opening scene was John hallucinating. He is clutching Mariko's rosary beads in that scene, which is impossible since he dropped them in the lake with Fuji. And the show runners said so in an interview!
38:58 Yabushige said the same words to his nephew about Toranaga a few series ago. Toranaga is now quoting him back, revealing that the nephew was his spy all along and that he knew everything. Yabushige realized he got outplayed and smiled. But still, ma boi went out like a G!
That's not true, you seen Omi questioning hi's loyalties in episode 7 or 8, i don't totally recall which one it was, where Kiku's boss got land on Edo, that could be the time when he switched loyalties to Toranaga and told him everything he knew.
Omi may have been conflicted but that doesn't mean that he wasn't a spy the entire time. The reason why Toranaga always knew what Yabushige was up to wasn't because he "knew" him, he had a spy as close as possible to him. Another clue that Omi was a spy was that he pushed Nagakado to attack in episode 4 and again later. Toranaga has been influencing things through others the entire series. He isn't omniscient, he is constantly well informed.
Is it confirmed that it was indeed Omi, or could it also have been that other samurai who always was with Yabushige but never said anything? I think he was also present when Yabushige said that line, and he makes a lot of sense as a spy too.
@@frankvandorp2059 as it was not explicitly said in the show, I suppose it isn't "confirmed". I also did not read the book, but maybe there is more to be gleaned there. That being said, I am less inclined to believe that the samurai that was given no real screen time or speaking lines was the spy given originally Shogun was meant to be only 1 season.
Even in the end Torunaga wasn't completely honest with Yabushige. What Torunaga did to John was quite despicable, slowly through the story John is used and slowly converted to the cause of Torunaga to the point where in the end while having lost everything and everyone he had relationship with in Japan (Ship, Mariko, Fuji, Yabushige), he still drops his own cause and completely converted to Torunaga's cause despite him being responsible for almost all of the trauma inflicted on John. John is completely unaware of this at the end.
Everybody who is thinking that Omi was the spy is wrong. It was Takemaru who was the real spy, silently present with Yabushige all the time and the fact that we all missed it shows how good he was. A true spy will never even come in suspicion.
That smile at the end between Toranaga and Blackthorne .... it's also nice to see Blackthorne's relationship with Fuji and Buntaro come full circle ... This show has spoiled me, it has raised the bar by which I will judge many shows from now on.
@@nont18411 Politely disagree. Osaka is just as good a capital city as Tokyo and Japanese culture wouldn't have changed much. The country was definitely winding down after the Sengoku wars and the Korean wars. It really didn't matter much if Tokugawa won or Hideyoshi's kid came to power, Japan was exhausted and a period of peace was due to come...until in all scenarios, the Americans show up (which brought about the true change in Japanese culture).
@@bvbxiong5791 Having been to both cities, I agree with this. Either would have worked just fine and would be recognizable considering all the other history that occurs.
Hello. I enjoyed watching your video! I hope this will be of some help to both of you in answering your questions. In Japan, catfish are known as a fish that can predict earthquakes, according to an old legend. This is a hint for the scene where Yabushige is searching for catfish. Also, all of Toranaga's family and friends who die in this story actually die in a meaningful way. The movie "Shogun" is based on the events just before the Battle of Sekigahara. Toranaga is based on Tokugawa Ieyasu, the first Shogun of the Edo period in Japan. The film shows how the lives of these fewer meaningful casualties minimised the many unnecessary casualties that would later occur in the battle between the five armies. In other words, I think what he is trying to say is that John and Toranaga shared the same ideology. I'll continue to enjoy watching your channels from Japan!
This year's Emmy Award nominations were just announced today (July 17, 2024)...and Shogun lead all shows with TWENTY-FIVE total nominations including for best drama series and best actress (Anna Sawai as Mariko) and best actor (Hiroyuki Sanada as Toranaga) in a drama series. The actors who play Yabushige and Ishido were also nominated and Nestor Carbonelle was nominated for "best guest actor" for his role as Rodrigues. The show also earned nominations for production design, original dramatic score, stunt performance, sound editing, casting, cinematography, costume design and directing. (By the way, the 1980 television mini-series version earned 12 Emmy Award nominations.)
Jon isn't in England, guys, that's the dream of the life he'll never have. Jon will never leave Japan. The cross is one of the clues, yes. Shogun s1 is wild storytelling, because we, as an audience, also see what Toranaga allows us to see. And only couple of people in the show truly see Toranaga in full, Ochiba and Jin. And at some point there is 0 reason for Jon to be there, but he just keeps him there for the lulz xD
I wish they didn't show that old Blackthorne scene. It installed some misguided thoughts/feelings, like even I when I first watched thought ''idk I don't feel sad about this Blackthorne's attempt at seppuku because they just showed him being old and home'' which can also be seen in this and many other reaction channels. Think writers kinda fumbled the writing there a bit showing it.
All the time we thought Toronaga is the protagonist but at the end it was clear he was the antagonist all the time. The name of series is Shogun, so of course there should be a Shogun.😂everyone thought they were smarter than Toronaga but he was two steps ahead of them.😁
Aside from Mariko's rosary, which others have already mentioned Blackthorne couldn't have, there's another clue that the scene with the grandchildren isn't real, and that's the fact that the kids referred to the Japanese as "savages". That was John's initial perspective upon his _arrival_ in Japan. He had zero understanding or respect for Japanese customs or culture and planned on being every bit as exploitative as he'd accused the Portuguese of being, which we later get from his confession to Toranaga about coming there to use him. If he'd succeeded and returned to Britain as a colonizer, it's exactly the mindset you'd expect his descendants to have. It isn't his perspective at the time of Mariko's death, however. John has been changed by his time in Japan. He understands the language and cultural norms and more importantly, he now respects the people he once viewed as savages.
The episode is called "A Dream of A Dream." The old man scenes were all his dream of returning. This is his old life. The three pivotal scenes in this episode were: 1. John's attempt at sepukku which showed that he had fully embraced being a samurai/serving Toranaga. He had two choices at that point: 1. continue with his current path which may eventually lead to returning to England OR to remain. Also remember during that scene he has a flashback to the dream - which then disappears because he has changed his future by committing to the moment and moving on from his past life (he is de facto reborn during the seppuku scene) 2. The Boat Scene with Fuji: This is a pivotal scene because John has at last found peace. He truly moves forward with his life by letting go of Mariko through the release of the rosary to the depths of the water - just like Fuji has done. In addition, by releasing the rosary, it makes the future dream impossible (in which he had the rosary in his hand). 3. Yabu's seppuku scene. Toranaga "Why Tell a Dead man the future...." This was the exact line Yabu told Omi in the first episode. Toranaga was always listening to information from every possible source and considering his strategy accordingly. In addiiton, his inner third heart was of course always to be Shogun.
"why tell a dead men the future" is what yabushige told omi in relation to torunaga in one of the earlier episodes, confirming that omi was spying for torunaga since the beginning
In the instance after the explosion, while stunned or unconscious, John dreamed the future, but it wasn't the future he wanted, it was the one he thought, in that moment, he was destined for. Ep. 9 and this were his transformation, culminating with his willingness to commit seppuku to save Ajiro, his "home". And just like Fuji, he imparted the remains of Mariko into the sea so that she would remain with him there always, as would Fuji's husband and child. Truly powerful stuff. Also, by stating to Yabushige, "Why tell a dead man the future?", Toranaga was, in fact, not only confirming that yes, his secret plan was to become Shogun, but that he was aware of Yabushige's actions from the very beginning, whether it was Omi or his other hand that was keeping him abreast (possibly both). Yabushige smiled upon realizing this and Toranaga smirked back to confirm it. Lastly, I particularly loved the line about not controlling the wind, but studying it. This is what made Toranaga (Tokugawa) so brilliant and successful.There were too many variables to have planned everything out, but he was able to quickly understand and adapt to each change of direction, allowing him to continue. This began when he was a child being held by his family's enemies for 6 years. Just brilliant writing and character development. I sincerely hope the showrunners are able to do the same for the upcoming seasons.
I love this episode for two reasons: 2nd, the two quotes from episode 1 that resurfaced in this episode, "Why tell a dead man the future," and "Let her (your) hands be the last to hold her son (her)." 1st, how the series misdirects every watcher, we're led to believe the climax would be the great battle of samurai, where in fact, the great battle was Mariko v Ishido. This episode is more of an epilogue to Season 1.
Toranaga's purpose is peaceful world without war. 🏯 Many tourists are now coming to Edo, which he built. 🏯🏘🏘 「Welcome to the peaceful world of Tokyo !」🏯🏢🏢
We like to see war in TV/movies because we find it cool when in reality is absolutely destructive for everyone involved, whenever it was a city and a war happened, is now a cementery, Toranaga knew this and made it pretty clear: the most important thing is maintain the country alive. And its kinda showed when the earth shakes after Ishido and the council shouts "War is inevitable". Because of how ugly a war can be, and is because of that why Shogun ends not with war, but with a poem. In the episode 9, when Mariko say his first poem she says "on a leafless branch" (Ochiba name translates to "fallen leaves") and then is followed by "flowers are only flowers because they fall" this is a suggestion that neither Mariko or Ochiba would have done or would've never become the people they did without being separated (it explains why Ochiba stood up for Mariko so many times, she realize this the moment Mariko said the poem). Then in episode 10 the poem is finished by "But thankfully, the wind" which is a reference of Yabushige and Toranaga's talk in the hill. When Yabushige ask about shaping the wind and Toranaga's says he studies it, because he is the wind Ochiba credits with bringing her back to Mariko, for reconnecting the fallen leaves and the fallen flower with their branch. Also, Absence is the center of Shogun ending, Mariko is gone, John's ship is gone, Yabushige is gone, and the Taiko's wife who started everything is also gone, and the war that we were all expecting is nowhere to be found. Like Kiku said in the 6th episode: "You see where the flask is no longer. Presence is felt most keenly in absence". I felt like something was missing in the episode and after thinking I was right, something IS missing, and is the point: Peace is never something thrilling, and it was what Toranaga's wanted since the start, win the war peacefully, and the truth is, peace is boring.
Just a thought, but there is a famous quote that says, "All that we are or seem. Is but a dream within a dream." It's from Edgar Allan Poe. I take it to mean in the context of your conversation about the episode/show, that it's all a perception, and dreams never end, nor do we fully understand the meaning behind them, or learn all there is to know from them. Perceptions shape reality, and reality always changes based on a person's understanding of life and their experiences in life. Kind of like the reflection of a mountain on a still lake, compared to trying to see the same relfection if the lake is disturbed. It isn't the mountains that are gone, or the lake that is gone. It's just the picture/reflection has changed. Good reaction to an excellent show.
If yall are interested on what is gonna be about the season 2: Following the real history, I believe that in the second season we're gonna see: Extending the Shogun story (Toranaga) following to Sekigahara and Toranaga becoming Shogun, then the shogunate move of expelling the Catholics from Japan. Blackthorne building his fleet an working with his crew to establish Dutch trade replacing the Portuguese. The increasing anti-Catholic movement, followed by the Siege of Osaka (And the heir/lady ochiba defeat), where we finally see Blackthorne's cannons and Toranaga's secret heart followed by his son as Shogun. I feel like season 2 is going to be way darker.
I've watched this show through a few times now and I'm still picking up on different things. This show was a 10 for me.. Especially the more I've re watched it.
Yabushige was right to be disloyal. His mistake was being dumb. Toranaga is the biggest villain in the show lol He manipulates and uses everyone around him for his goals, including his best friend. Jon was not completely wrong when he accused toranaga of leading his loyal vassals to death
@@GustavoCardoso95 I’m not disputing whether it was right or wrong, just that they should’ve expected Toranaga to kill him for it. He’s totally Machievellian I agree.
The best companion piece to Shogun is Blue Eye Samurai. I believe you would love that show. Watching it soon after Shogun gave me new appreciation for both.
The thing about Toranaga granting Mariko her wish is, Mariko does admit to Buntaro that it wasn't death that she craved, it was the life she couldn't live with him. And I'm pretty sure that Toranaga knew that. But he didn't choose to nurture her desire to live because it was againat his plans, so he nurtured the desire to die for a purpose instead. Remember the scene "Oh, didn't you know your father wanted you to fight his fight but instead you've been feeling sorry for yourself this whole time?". Very guilt-tripping. So even the he-granted-her-her-wish part is questionable. As for the ending, I'm quite content and I didn't need more episodes, though. We're left in the shadow of Toranaga who still has plans to envision and who will use anyone to achieve those plans. No one is safe in his shadow, which is why he stands above everyone else in the final scene. This show is the character study of Toranaga more than anything. I didn't feel like it needed something else.
Yabushige said the same exact words "Why tell a dead man the future?" to Omi back in episode 1 that's why he smiled because he figured out the Omi was a spy all along.
I believe it was Yabushige's aide, not Omi, who was Toranaga's spy on Yabushige. The third guy in that scene with Yabu's death poem and the will who wished him a 'good death'.
Everybody who is thinking that Omi was the spy is wrong. It was Takemaru who was the real spy, silently present with Yabushige all the time and the fact that we all missed it shows how good he was. A true spy will never even come in suspicion.
it´s good that you understood that torunaga was playing everyone and the show focuses on that, torunaga playing the "game of thrones" :D we just didn´t know it, but he always wanted to be shogun
1. "Flowers are only flowers bcoz they fall" - Mariko 2. "Flowers are only flowers bcoz they fall, but thankfully the wind"- Lady Ochiba 3. "How does it feel to command the wind?" - Yabushige "I don't control the wind, I only study it" - Toronaga Mariko was the flower that falls, Yabushige was the wind that assisted and Toronaga was the guy who studied the wind. Yabushige didn't flip even after Toronaga confirmed his surrender in front of the priest so Toda Hiromatsu had to die to change his mind bcoz Toronaga needed Yabushige to flip. This show is pure poetry ♥♥. Also, all the letters are actually written as poems so even if someone reads them, they wouldn't know what it actually means which is confirmed when Toronaga asks Kiri No Kata if she read the secret letter given by Lady Ochiba and then Toronaga reads the poem/letter.
Hiroyuki Sanada, actor who plays Toranaga, said; Only reason Toranaga looked to become Shogun was just because in his experience the peace age of Japan was not possible unless anyone but himself was in charge. Also that scene is a dream of John, not his future. He actually stayed in Japan beside Toranaga his whole life.
That's the actor saying how he rationalized his performance. I believe there is more to Toranaga's character than that, he is not just a "hero", there is ambition there
Thank you for another great series my friends 💙 That ''why tell a dead man the future'' was what Yobu said about Toranaga on episode 1. He used the exact words just to make a point i think and Yobu also realizes it. They both understand each other, they both see each others secret heart at the final moment. I think that explains the smirk a bit also. See you on another journey 👋
48:29 You're right: "The battle of Sekigahara was incredible, Tokugawa’s (Toranaga) Eastern Army with 75,000 men, and Ishido’s Western Army with 120,000 men. Its outcome resulted in a 200-year dynasty. The battle took place on October 21st, 1600 on a morning draped in so much fog that neither side could plan an attack or even see where the other army stood. When the fog cleared and the battle began two massive armies clashed along river banks and through the hills beneath the shadow of Mount Nangu. The battle’s fierce fighting ended in betrayal on Mount Nangu, where the commander of the Mōri army refused to help a retreating Ishida, who was forced to surrender and was later executed. Elsewhere, sieges were laid to various strongholds around Japan. Tokugawa emerged victorious and founded the first Edo shogunate. It would have made for an epic hour of television."
“Why tell a dead man the future” was something that he said about Toranaga when he thought Toranaga would die. He is saying it back to him letting him know what he said behind his back.
@39:00 When you said you feel like there’s more to that question, that’s because in the first episode of Shōgun, Yabushige said to Omi “why tell a dead man the future?” when they were talking about Toranaga. That’s probably why you felt there was more to it. I actually had to watch reaction videos just to understand it.
It's interesting to think of Torunaga letting the falcon go free as his own personal way to "let go" of Mariko. If you rewatch episode 1, what he says about the falcon in his introduction scene is him essentially revealing/foreshadowing Mariko's story.
Remember in the first episode when Yabushige said to his nephew "why tell a dead man the future?" in regards to telling Lord Toranaga about the ship and the guns etc. Toranaga used that same line against him while also letting him know that he knew everything he was saying and planning behind his back in 'secret'
The ending was that way because the point of this show is a display of opposing factions outside of the "cool" battles. The different tactics and plans that could be used without drawing a sword.
What an amazing show this was. As glad as I am that they have confirmed a season 2 and 3, it’s so damn sad we’re losing such great characters as Mariko, Fuji, Yabushige, etc. amazing characters that made this show something truly special. Can’t wait to see what happens next and what other great characters come up.
There was never meant to be additional seasons you know. It is interesting they are doing more, I do worry about the quality in terms if the deep interconnected character plots and deceptions and stuff, since this season was based off of strong source material. Future seasons don't have the same source material to work from, but they do still have the historical people they were based on to pull inspiration. They way I look at it is, I'm happy to see more, but if its not very good, the first season will still be really good and stands on its own. Luckily they didn't end this seasons dependent on additional seasons to make a full story.
Many people phrase this ending and Toranaga's play as some kind of "chess in real life". However, Toranaga is playing the japanese game, shogi. Wich unlike chess, in shogi you can use stolen pieces. For this reason, there is also a strategy to capture the king (The Heir/His mother) by taking away important pieces as decoys (Mariko, Anjin, Yabu,etc). Strategy is of utmost importance for victory.
BTW The real John Blackthorne (Adam Willams) never got back to England, in fact he married, had two kids and die in Japan at like 55. Altough he was able to sent letters to his family in England. There are some documents about some British sailors who went to Japan to deliver letters from the British crown and John did as translator for them. These sailors said in the documents that Adam Willams was absolutely a Japanese but with an European face, he knew the lenguage perfectly and knew every custom.
Torunaga saying "Why tell a dead man the future" to Yabushige means that Omi (whom Yabushige first said that line) had been secretly telling Toru about everything Yabu was doing, and Yabu only finding that out right before he died.
If you re-watch the first episode you'll see Yabushige saying "Why tell a dead man the future" so he's just repeating his own words which was an epic moment. When I started watching this show I thought that it would last for years! When I realized it was only going to be 1 season I was beyond disappointed. When I finished the series I was I felt teased that there wouldn't be an epic war. I looked into what plans were for the future and it looked like they would have a few different mini series exactly like THE WALKING DEAD which I was furiously disappointed with. I felt that there should be a few years for Shogun and now that I've heard that there will be I just hope that they don't wreck it.
I think this is second time I watch someone who found Yabushige's poem a little weird and ask "why?" meanwhile I find it beautiful poem, made me tear up. I wonder if it is a culture or belief thing. I should look up for a reactions that is not western to compare, only if I wasn't lazy.
I wonder why no one ever picks up on in episode 2 John notices the samurai battle armor and Mariko notes Toranaga had it made specifically from a dream he had and it's style dates back many generations to the Minowara shogunate. They revealed his plan was always to resurrect his destiny by bringing back the Shogun.
I feel like Marikos death was kind of like a monkeys paw wish thing. Toronaga said he would grant her her wish so her destiny was set, he created a purpose for it, and the monkeys paw bit is that she didn’t want to die in the end but knew it was her fate and so accepted it bravely. There are so many layers to everything in this show it’s absolutely wild.
Haha, y'all didn't recall the callback. One of the earliest scenes we see of Yabushike and Omi talking, Yabushike says "why tell a dead man the future" when Omi asks if he will report the barbarian ship and canons to his lord, Toranaga. However, Toragana was never there for that conversation, so the callback means that Toranaga has an inside man all along, most likely Omi, and he knows absolutely EVERYTHING that happens in his domain.
Ieyasu Tokugawa (Toronaga) İktidara gelişinin hikayesini anlatıyor. Mariko Dono'nun torunları, büyük büyükannelerinin ölüm sahnesine kızdılar. Çünkü Mariko, canlı yakalanmadan önce kendi adamlarına onu öldürmelerini emretti. Segikihara savaşını kazandı ve şogun oldu. Meji ayaklanmasına kadar iktidarı ellerinde tuttular.
First of all cutting the scene out of Fuji and John at the end was an enormous mistake. The reason that it is a mistake is, besides being a very touching well acted scene it tells you a few things you dont realize you just saw. Everyone thinks the bed ridden version in the beginning is a hallucination but I disagree. I think if you watch that scene with John and Fuji at the end she looks at John with complete love on her face as if she is falling in love with him. I think the cross he holds in the bed is hers. The sword the kids are talking about was her fathers, given to him by her. I think when the next season comes out we will see that.
I think you're reaching. By the end they are bound by a friendship, not love. Cutting that scene was cruel nonetheless... it's the best scene of this episode.
Ieyasu Tokugawa (Toronaga) It tells the story of his coming to power. Mariko Dono's grandchildren were angry at the death scene of their great-grandmother. Because Mariko ordered his own men to kill him before he was captured alive. He won the battle of Segikihara and became shogun. They held power until the Meji uprising.
Maybe off topic, but the Meiji Restoration makes me very sad. I think an emperor is a proper ruler, but it was very upsetting to learn that both sides of the fight were actually being played by foreign powers, it’s almost enough to wish it never happened.
As most of the characters in the show, Buntaro is based on a real person, and in fact in terms of age Buntaro might be the one who had the longest life, longest than Willam Adams (John) who died at 55 in Japan.
This was quite faithful to the book. The book doesn't end with a big battle either: it just happens offstage. This was not a tale of battle. I was a little disappointed that it didn't end with the fate of Ishido from the book. The sequels in the book series make it clear that John never left Japan. But it's also worth noting that the book sequels do not take place with the same characters or the same place. They move into the future. I don't think there's enough left in Shogun for a direct sequel with the same people. But the show creators think there is. So they plan to follow the story, and there is quite a bit in the future between the real Toranaga and the Heir. But I hoped the sequels would look at future Clavell books: Shogun takes place in 1600, Tai-Pan in 1841 and mostly in Hong Kong, and Gai-Jin in 1862. This would make 3 seasons. King Rat takes place in 1945, and there is already a good movie adaptation. Noble House and Whirlwind move out of Japan. So they are a big different, especially as they get closer to the modern day.
He asks “if he’s always wanted to be Shogun” Torunaga answers “why tell a dead man the future?” It’s a rhetorical question. As to say I will be Shogun in the future but telling you would be pointless since you will die. Basically a playful way of confirming it.
Wow Spartan really likes Yabushige lol but now that you guys mention it i think John was dreaming in the beginning because theres no way Toranaga would let him leave Japan. Toranaga wanted to keep using John until he died. John was ultimately an enemy even though he wasnt planning to try to use Toranaga specifically he went to Japan to use Japanese people in general, not Toranaga (to be fair). I'm excited for the future of the show. I hope there is a little more action going forward. And when i say action i dont mean battle of the bastards type action i mean suspensful 1v1 samurai combat.
I'd recommend watching the 1980-version as well. To my surprise I liked it even more. Not as visually stunning, but I liked the story (which is largely the same, but still different enough) more.
I think the best comment about this was with shogun you think you’re rooting for Ned but it’s revealed you’ve been rooting for Tywin. Yabu had to go, he was too awful a menace. But of course they would pick such a charismatic actor for him to add spice. Ngl, I immediately went to that first to see your reaction. Great stuff!
Oh man, you cheated us out of one of the best scenes in the episode. When Blackthorne and Fuji went out to the water and made their peace with their loved ones. So disappointed! Great reaction other than that.
I read somewhere that in the book he actually says that he keeps the Anjin around because in the end, even him needs a friend (Wich IMO it makes the whole seppuku scene even more impactful, is Toranaga saving a friend, that friend that doesnt share the same culture as him so he can actually save from a seppuku). I wish the showrunners had kept that. I absolutely hate the "Because hes funny haha" thing, is absolutely off-character from Toranaga. We all know, even him, that he keeps him around because he feels somewhat responsible and "friend" with him. Thats why in the book Anjin is also gifted with the Ajiro village.
Eastern thought riddles this series. Sun Tzu's Art of War figures prominantly in the thought process. Toranaga comes off as a bad guy in a way unless you thoroughly understand his perspective. You don't need to know his secret heart because he already revealed it early when he noted that a civil war would involve massive pointless death. Why condemn so many to die when if you play your cards right, nobody needs to die or only a minimal few. The people close to Toranaga understood and wee the ones mainly engaging in the sacrifice necessary to long term save lives and stop an actual civil war. From the start, understanding the 'schemers' on the council, we understand their power was more important to them than any consideration of the lives of others. To that end, Yoshi Toranaga is revealed as the one man who could possibly lead who actually considers that all life has it's value. He both says and demonstrates that he means that a meaningless death is a waste of a life. Stopping Anjin from taking his own life and forcibly pushing the issue, gave Anjin purpose again, just as Mariko had been given purpose again. Sun Tzu tells you that you win a war before picking up a weapon and before ever touching the field of battle or likely not at all. Strategy - understanding your opponent, understanding the interactions of the players, understanding who all the players are and what their motivations are.. And getting out of their way when they're busily destroying themselves. Understanding where you need to apply pressure and where you need expend no energy.. that is the art of war. Yoshi Toranaga, lord of the Kanto, understood from the jump that while he didn't want power, as a wise and decent man, if he didn't step up, it would cost him and a lot of others their lives. The deciet of the others needed bodies to re enforce the pretense that they played at even when people understood it was just theater. I note his title to underscore Yoshi isn't just some guy. He's a lord with deep understanding and appreciation for the way life works in Japan and the way the politics works. He was better at playing the game of politics than all the others and he clearly thinks his witts were assisted by Karma. He's a man of confidence. And confidence, to evil folks, is arrogance. So it paints an interesting picture. I think everyone has come to this story with an expectation of a european mindset for war. People prepare for war expecting the battle. When you don't get the battle you feel let down. So this is where Sun Tzu comes in. The struggle of the entire show has been to avoid bloodshed. The monumental victory of the story is that the decent man rises to power without bloodshed, having gone out of his way to avoid it. And, the decent man is willing to rule in order to stop the brutal and unethical from taking power and making Japan into a miserable ATM, if you will, for the Pope. In real life, Anjin stays in Japan, rises in the royal court and is the reason the Catholics were kicked out of Japan. A long peace settles over Japan.
IIRC the book ended the same way as this season, so I don't know what season 2 and 3 will be about. They will have no James Clavell book to base it on.
Please redo this video to include your reaction to the boat scene. Its lack of presence in your video is big. In my opinion, it is one of the most beautiful and pivotal scenes in the whole first season. If this is by design, I understand, but its omission is notceable.
It's in the book I think but Ochiba has animosity towards Toranaga because he knows that the "heir" is illegitimate - ie...she had an affair. That's why she mostly sides with Ishido among other reasons. If there is a sequel it will be Toranaga vs Ochiba and her grown up son basically.
Wow...this is gonna take some time to digest. Toranaga played us BIG TIME
Want to watch 4 weeks EARLY and access our UNCUT reactions? Join us on Patreon! www.patreon.com/spartanandpudgey
"Why tell a dead man the future" is a callback to Yabushige saying that exact line to Omi, about Toranaga, in either the first or second episode. Revealing that Omi was also a spy for Toranaga.
A good series alternative if you have Shogun blues is Blue Eye Samurai: action packed, great flawed characters and a beautiful cinematography. Hope you take the time to watch it: on your own or as a reaction series. Enjoy!😊
@@Christian-el2bz It doesn't reveal that Omi was the spy. Omi could have been a spy, but also, he could have reported that to Toranaga after receiving the information about Mariko's death.
@@danbadd Sure, you could be right. But I think it's far more likely that they have kept Omi's role from the book where he is a spy.
Which is why things make better sense, when you realize that Toranaga had many spies.
@39:00 When you said you feel like there’s more to that question, that’s because in the first episode of Shōgun, Yabushige said to Omi “why tell a dead man the future?” when they were talking about Toranaga. That’s probably why you felt there was more to it. I actually had to watch reaction videos just to understand it and be reminded of it
Justice for Fuji's boat scene!! 🥲
That wasn't John's future we saw. He hallucinated it. He dropped Mariko's rosary beads with Fuji (can't believe you didn't show that scene!) that he was holding in his hallucination. He couldn't have had them.
Also, the show runners said it was a hallucination in an interview.
That was the one mis-step this show made, they didnt make it clear enough it wasnt a flash forward, most people assumed it was the certain future which ruined the tension in his attempted suicide scene, as it did for these two. They should have had the Fuji ashes scene before it where he let go of the cross in to the lake, or made it much more clear he was just dreaming of his future.
@@sonofsomerset1695Personally, I disagree - I doubted the "flash-forward" scenes from the start, since both of them happened while John was unconscious. With that in mind, John's Seppuku scene still had a lot of tension & ambiguity - and once he dropped the rosary from the boat, it confirmed my suspicions.
I can see how many were confused, but to me the way it played out was extremely satisfying!
@@captain_britain Yeah, but he dropped the cross after the seppuku attempt, that's why Id have prefered that scene first. As you saw from these guys, many people didnt get that it was a dream so assumed John wasnt going to die there.
@@Theoneeyed_ghoul Well, they're talking while things are happening. Maybe they're not paying as close attention
@@sonofsomerset1695 Yeah, you're right that it would've been more logical to present those scenes in the opposite order. I guess I just didn't mind it this way because I still doubted that John would ever leave Japan, even before it was confirmed by the boat/rosary scene.
y'all left out the boat scene between John & Fuji-San !!!!
Yeah, too bad cause it's pretty significant indeed.
gotta keep something for patreon :D
best nun
Was going to say this, one of the most beautiful scenes in the episode.
NO way!? Wow I might actually put off watching this video till later now… very disappointing
I'm afraid you have until sunset tomorrow to explain why you didn't include the boat scene with John and Fuji.
Jokes aside, this has become one of my favorite seasons of TV. I understand some people kind of expect a final battle of sorts. I'm sort of a sucker for simply character driven stories and this sort of thing doesn't really disappoint me. I don't think I could have asked for a more fulfilling finale.
How did they leave out the Fuji and John boat scene!!!
Patreon brother us broke ass bums can't afford that🤣
Fuji best nun.
Historically speaking, Japan was in the Sengoku period for about 140 years, with wars occurring all over the country.
In 1600, Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga), the model for the main character, won a major battle against the Western Army led by Ishida Mitsunari (Ishido) in an attempt to put an end to that period, and captured and beheaded Ishida (Ishido).
In 1603, he officially became "Seii Taishogun" (shogun) and established a shogunate in Edo (present-day Tokyo). By the way, it is the emperor who appoints the shogun. The emperor is always superior.
In 1615, he destroyed his only enemy, the Osaka side, in two wars, and completely took control of the country (Taiko's son and his mother (Ochiba) committed suicide, and Osaka Castle burned down at that time).
After that, his family name continued for 15 generations, and he continued the world of peace as shogun for a long period of 250 years. Although there were many sacrifices, the main character laid the foundation for this. By the way, although it is currently 2024, it has only been 156 years since the Edo Shogunate came to an end in 1868. This shows just how long 250 years without war is.
Finally, the Imperial Palace (in front of Tokyo Station), where the Emperor currently resides, is built on the site of Edo Castle, which was built by Tokugawa Ieyasu when he became Shogun.
Super post. If I could lay out a little more:
Three men tried to unify Japan starting in about the 1570s. The first was Oda Nobunaga. He was betrayed by his general Akemi Mutsuhide, who is "Mariko's" father. "Mariko" was based partly on Hosokawa Gracia or Gurasha, who was born Akemi Tama, Akemi Mutsuhide's daughter. The second of the unifiers was Toyotomi Hideyoshi. That was the Taiko. Toyotomi Hideyoshi was of peasant origin, so either refused, or was never offered, the title of Shogun. Finally came Tokugawa Ieyasu, the model for Toranaga Yoshii. The three men were contemporaries, but in the end it was the Tokugawa family that ruled Japan for 300 years.
@@andrewcrowder4958
Thank you. It's going to be a long story, but I'll explain a little about the relationship between the three men because it's interesting.
In 1534, a man appeared who put an end to the 140-year-long Sengoku period. It was Oda Nobunaga. He was the most brilliant military commander in Japanese history, and had all the elements. He was an innovative person who excelled not only in military affairs, but also in economy, diplomacy, governance, culture, and art.
The second, Toyotomi Hideyoshi (Taiko), was born a farmer, but became a samurai to get ahead in life, and in 1554 became a retainer of Oda Nobunaga. Although he was a low-ranking officer, he rose to great heights due to his natural talent, and grew into a general who could be entrusted with a unit of the Oda army. He is said to be the person who rose to great heights in Japanese history. However, after the death of Oda Nobunaga, he took over and unified the country, but because he was born a farmer, he could not become Seii Taishogun. Incidentally, "Taiko" is the title of a position that assists the emperor, and the rank is very high. Although he is not a shogun, he actually rules Japan.
The third person is the main character of this program, Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga). He allied with Oda Nobunaga in 1562. At that time, both were just lords of small countries, but since they were neighbors of Oda Nobunaga, they sought a way to survive by forming an alliance.
Toyotomi Hideyoshi (Taiko) and Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga) had absolute respect for Oda Nobunaga, and at that time they had no intention of aiming for the world.
Around 1580, Oda Nobunaga, together with his excellent subordinates and his ally Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga), defeated many rivals and took control of 60% of Japan. In the same year, Oda Nobunaga gave troops to each general in order to unify the country, and began military operations to seize the remaining territories (Toyotomi Hideyoshi (Taiko) was one of them). While each army was steadily invading, Oda Nobunaga himself remained in Kyoto (the center of Japan where the emperor lived at the time) and took command of the entire operation, but he was caught off guard and betrayed by his subordinate, Akechi Mitsuhide.
On June 2, 1582, Oda Nobunaga was attacked in the middle of the night and continued to fight with a small number of soldiers until the middle of the battle, but he realized that his death was near and committed suicide. He refused to hand over his body to the enemy and burned it together with the Honnoji temple where he was staying. This is called the Honnoji Incident (13,000 men in Akechi Mitsuhide's army vs. 160 men in Oda Nobunaga's army). At this time, Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga), who had been invited to Kyoto by Oda Nobunaga, was also nearly killed, but he managed to escape.
Toyotomi Hideyoshi (Taiko), who was on a campaign as a military commander, heard the news and returned to Kyoto before anyone else. He then fought the traitor Akechi Mitsuhide and won. Akechi Mitsuhide died here.
As mentioned, Akechi Mitsuhide's daughter was Hosokawa Gracia (Mariko). In other words, in the eyes of the world, she was the "daughter of a traitor" who betrayed and killed Oda Nobunaga, who was a great man and her lord. As a result, her relationship with her husband deteriorated and she became estranged from her children. She became a Christian to ease her suffering.
Now, Toyotomi Hideyoshi (Taiko), who had avenged his lord, took over all of Oda Nobunaga's base with skillful political strategies and battles, and aimed to unify the country. In 1586, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, who was aiming for the world, fought Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga) for seven months, but the battle was not concluded. So Toyotomi Hideyoshi appeased Tokugawa Ieyasu by doubling his territory, and eventually brought him under his control. After that, in 1591, he took over the country and became Taiko, but as mentioned at the beginning of the second story of the Shogun, he died in his bed in 1598. At that time, he left behind a will that the country be ruled by the Five Elders.
In other words, in order to completely end the Sengoku period, Oda Nobunaga first built the foundations for a unified country, and then his vassal Toyotomi Hideyoshi inherited Nobunaga's will and foundations and achieved unification of the country, but after Toyotomi Hideyoshi's death, Tokugawa Ieyasu was ultimately declared the victor. In hindsight, Toyotomi Hideyoshi should have defeated Tokugawa Ieyasu rather than trying to appease him. Conversely, Ieyasu, despite being outnumbered, fought Hideyoshi to a draw, and survived by playing politics, which is why he was given his chance.
When you realized that in the end, Ishido and Ochiba (and the Taiko) were right all along!
Toranaga did in fact planned to kill the heir. The difference is the timing. He wanted to kill the heir AFTER he already usurped the throne as the shogun.
We should also remember that Toranaga was the root cause of Mariko’s miserable life in the first place. He manipulated her father into killing the ruler that got his family killed then took Mariko under his wings to groom her into a sacrificial lamb for his “Crimson Sky” plan.
And about Blackthorne, when the prison priest warned him back in episode 2 that “If Toranaga sees you as an ally, you will never leave Japan alive”, the priest was right. Blackthorne never left Japan because Toranaga didn’t let him. It happened like this in real life as well. The Shogun Tokugawa Ieyasu (real life Toranaga) never allowed William Adams (real life Blakthorne) to leave the country. He died in Japan and his bones are still in Nagasaki until these days.
Also don’t forget that he didn’t care that his son died because “he has the other sons” and he’s very comfortable to sacrifice his own best friend for his plans.
Toranaga is a selfish manipulative scumbag just like Yabushige. The difference is that he hid it so well under his honorable exterior. It’s like a Tywin Lannister with Ned Stark persona.
William Adams left Japan several times on expeditions to other parts of Asia and returned. He was eventually given permission to return to England for good but he chose to remain in Japan.
I think you are overreading things into Toranaga. He _does_ manipulate, but as he said, he doesn't "shape the wind", he studies it (as in, adjusts to it and uses it to his own advantage). He didn't sacrifice his son (Nagakado did what he did after talking to Fuji, who most certainly was expressing her own opinions and not Toranaga's), nor ask Hiromatsu to do what he did (Toranaga was literally holding back tears when he had the eye-to-eye contact with Hiromatsu, his eyes are red, and we can see Hiromatsu deciding to sacrifice himself as a reaction to the lords trying to pull their weapons and _he_ is the one who convinced Toranaga to go through with it), nor did he get an earthquake to decimate his own army. He wasn't sure that Saeki would betray him when he sent him word, and at least as far as the show is concerned (don't know if it's the same in the book), he wasn't the one who manipulated Mariko's father, that man acted based on his own morals and principles (you can even see Toranaga _preventing_ Akechi from attacking in Ochiba's memory, Ochiba is just being paranoid about him there). Yabushige decided to be disloyal on his own, he could've chosen otherwise. But since Toranaga knew what kind of a man he was, he was able to account for Yabushige's disloyalty in his plans and take advantage of it.
The reading that it's all Toranaga's manipulation invalidates the actions and decisions of every other character in the story that isn't Toranaga. He _does_ use the situation to his advantage (such as giving Mariko a new purpose rather than just letting her divorce her husband and commit suicide, and framing it as Mariko's father wanting her to finish his job, which he probably didn't, he just wanted his favorite child safe), but Mariko was always suicidal after what happened, and it was Buntaro's decision to not let her die, and Toranaga decided to use that and both potentially give her what she desires (in the event of her demise, which wasn't certain) but also get something useful in return rather than just her death. He probably had Omi spy for him on Yabushige before the series even started though, and other things of that nature.
However, yes, he _always_ desired to be the Shogun and he manipulated both Daiyoin as well as the late Taiko (the latter probably still knew to some extent, and even Daiyoin would rather Toranaga have power over, from her POV, "peasants" like Ishido so I don't think she went into it blindly). His desire was made obvious when he asked Yabushige to watch the sunrise with him (the rising sun is a symbol of his shogunate historically), or when John saw the armor that Mariko says he had commissioned a while ago after a dream (which is displayed similarly to the way the Taiko's one is in Osaka), or when he gives Gin the piece of land before departing for Edo. The narrative of course hints at it back in episode one with Rodriguez' voiceover talking about the secret heart. He is most certainly not a hero, but he isn't a pure emotionless villain playing 4D chess with everyone's lives either.
Tokugawa Ieyasu more likes ride the wind and just tries his best to get through it alive while trying to get into power. He is power hungry, but at the presence of more powerful men than him, he waits....hence the famous quote of the three great unifiers of Japan. He is a MINAMOTO (Minowara in the show) after all, blood thirsty and political dragons.
"Toranaga did in fact planned to kill the heir. The difference is the timing. He wanted to kill the heir AFTER he already usurped the throne as the shogun."
Zero evidence for this, and totally contrary to Japanese history. What happened during shogunates was that there were puppet emperors that were just there for show, but the emperors weren't killed for that reason, at least not unless they tried to stage something to depose the shogun.
Cutting out the boat scene is a wild decision. My favorite scene of the whole show.
They do this shit for Patreon but 🤣if u do this to your TH-cam audience no one gonna appreciate it, hell no one willl even subscribe
@@vamvetozuo9746 Sacrificing TH-cam quality for Patreon is an easy way stunt your growth on both platforms. Disappointing if true. Patreon should always supplement content, not take away from it.
Toronaga: "Why tell a dead man the future?"
Yabushige: 🤪
Ironic because those were the exact words Yabashige used to John very early in the series. I think the smirk from Yaba before he commited Sepiku was him aknowledging that Toranaga has known everything from the start even the things he's said to other people.
@@Dizzyruptor Yabashige told Omi when talking about toronaga. Showing that Omi was Toronaga's spy all along...
@@Dizzyruptor I think it may be because Yabushige has been obsessed with knowing death and now it is finally happening and he truly knows what it is to face/experience death.
the scene with fuji in the boat ripped my heart, kinda sad you didnt include in the reaction
Did my ride or die girl Fuji dirty by excluding her touching boat scene
Damn yall really cut out the best scene in the entire episode with Blackthorne and Fuji in the boat. I was so excited to see your reaction to it lol
John never leaves Japan. The name of the episode, "A Dream of a Dream," refers to both John's hallucinatory dream of returning home which he rejects when he let's Mariko go, and Toranaga's secret dream of becoming Shogun.
This!
wish they didn't include that scene. So misleading and took emotions away from Blackothorne's attempted seppuku
@@Daminionz Couldn't agree more. The whole fake "time jump" was unnecessary and diluted the impact of John's attempted seppuku. Having read the novel back in 1978, there are a number of things that mak
e me scratch my head about the production but overall it is magnificent.
Seppuku is obviously super painful, so Yabu smiling as he did it is truly badass! An impressive death
John was right. A shit face, but a brave shit face haha
The opening scene was John hallucinating. He is clutching Mariko's rosary beads in that scene, which is impossible since he dropped them in the lake with Fuji.
And the show runners said so in an interview!
38:58 Yabushige said the same words to his nephew about Toranaga a few series ago. Toranaga is now quoting him back, revealing that the nephew was his spy all along and that he knew everything. Yabushige realized he got outplayed and smiled. But still, ma boi went out like a G!
I think he also smiled, because he realizes that he was right. That in Toranaga's secret heart, he DID always aim at the title of Shogun.
That's not true, you seen Omi questioning hi's loyalties in episode 7 or 8, i don't totally recall which one it was, where Kiku's boss got land on Edo, that could be the time when he switched loyalties to Toranaga and told him everything he knew.
Omi may have been conflicted but that doesn't mean that he wasn't a spy the entire time. The reason why Toranaga always knew what Yabushige was up to wasn't because he "knew" him, he had a spy as close as possible to him. Another clue that Omi was a spy was that he pushed Nagakado to attack in episode 4 and again later. Toranaga has been influencing things through others the entire series. He isn't omniscient, he is constantly well informed.
Is it confirmed that it was indeed Omi, or could it also have been that other samurai who always was with Yabushige but never said anything? I think he was also present when Yabushige said that line, and he makes a lot of sense as a spy too.
@@frankvandorp2059 as it was not explicitly said in the show, I suppose it isn't "confirmed". I also did not read the book, but maybe there is more to be gleaned there. That being said, I am less inclined to believe that the samurai that was given no real screen time or speaking lines was the spy given originally Shogun was meant to be only 1 season.
Even in the end Torunaga wasn't completely honest with Yabushige. What Torunaga did to John was quite despicable, slowly through the story John is used and slowly converted to the cause of Torunaga to the point where in the end while having lost everything and everyone he had relationship with in Japan (Ship, Mariko, Fuji, Yabushige), he still drops his own cause and completely converted to Torunaga's cause despite him being responsible for almost all of the trauma inflicted on John. John is completely unaware of this at the end.
"Why tell a dead man the future" ..... Full circle right there.
Masterpiece.
Watches in anticipation for the John & Fuji boat scene. Proceeds to see no boat scene. Uh hwut?
Everybody who is thinking that Omi was the spy is wrong. It was Takemaru who was the real spy, silently present with Yabushige all the time and the fact that we all missed it shows how good he was. A true spy will never even come in suspicion.
That smile at the end between Toranaga and Blackthorne .... it's also nice to see Blackthorne's relationship with Fuji and Buntaro come full circle ... This show has spoiled me, it has raised the bar by which I will judge many shows from now on.
THE BOAT SCENE!!!!!! 🙈🙈🙈🙈
Perfection 👏👏👏
Smirk from Toranaga was probably meant as “yes, you are right”
For some historical context, the character of Toranaga is based on Ieyasu Tokugawa. His city Edo, would later come to be known as Tokyo.
Love him or hate him, without Toranaga, the capital of Japan today would have been Osaka and Japan would have been completely unrecognizable.
@@nont18411 Politely disagree. Osaka is just as good a capital city as Tokyo and Japanese culture wouldn't have changed much. The country was definitely winding down after the Sengoku wars and the Korean wars. It really didn't matter much if Tokugawa won or Hideyoshi's kid came to power, Japan was exhausted and a period of peace was due to come...until in all scenarios, the Americans show up (which brought about the true change in Japanese culture).
@@bvbxiong5791 Having been to both cities, I agree with this. Either would have worked just fine and would be recognizable considering all the other history that occurs.
Hello.
I enjoyed watching your video!
I hope this will be of some help to both of you in answering your questions.
In Japan, catfish are known as a fish that can predict earthquakes, according to an old legend.
This is a hint for the scene where Yabushige is searching for catfish.
Also, all of Toranaga's family and friends who die in this story actually die in a meaningful way.
The movie "Shogun" is based on the events just before the Battle of Sekigahara. Toranaga is based on Tokugawa Ieyasu, the first Shogun of the Edo period in Japan.
The film shows how the lives of these fewer meaningful casualties minimised the many unnecessary casualties that would later occur in the battle between the five armies.
In other words, I think what he is trying to say is that John and Toranaga shared the same ideology.
I'll continue to enjoy watching your channels from Japan!
海外の方のreactionをいくつか観ませていただきましたが。
あなた様のreactionは知的でした。
他の方のreactionでは、
たまに最後のEpisodeで、
もっと戦いが見たい、もっと血が見たいと言われる過激な方がいましたが、
『何故、戦争した事も無い人がそれらを見たがるのか?』
と思う所です。
でも、壮大な物語や感動的な物語を見たい気持ちも分かります。
アニメを観たことがある様なので、
『進撃の巨人』と
『鬼滅の刃』をおすすめ致します。
頑張って下さい。
This year's Emmy Award nominations were just announced today (July 17, 2024)...and Shogun lead all shows with TWENTY-FIVE total nominations including for best drama series and best actress (Anna Sawai as Mariko) and best actor (Hiroyuki Sanada as Toranaga) in a drama series. The actors who play Yabushige and Ishido were also nominated and Nestor Carbonelle was nominated for "best guest actor" for his role as Rodrigues. The show also earned nominations for production design, original dramatic score, stunt performance, sound editing, casting, cinematography, costume design and directing.
(By the way, the 1980 television mini-series version earned 12 Emmy Award nominations.)
Jon isn't in England, guys, that's the dream of the life he'll never have. Jon will never leave Japan. The cross is one of the clues, yes.
Shogun s1 is wild storytelling, because we, as an audience, also see what Toranaga allows us to see. And only couple of people in the show truly see Toranaga in full, Ochiba and Jin.
And at some point there is 0 reason for Jon to be there, but he just keeps him there for the lulz xD
I wish they didn't show that old Blackthorne scene. It installed some misguided thoughts/feelings, like even I when I first watched thought ''idk I don't feel sad about this Blackthorne's attempt at seppuku because they just showed him being old and home'' which can also be seen in this and many other reaction channels. Think writers kinda fumbled the writing there a bit showing it.
Seriously though, why did you not include the Fuji/John boat scene? I don't understand.
All the time we thought Toronaga is the protagonist but at the end it was clear he was the antagonist all the time. The name of series is Shogun, so of course there should be a Shogun.😂everyone thought they were smarter than Toronaga but he was two steps ahead of them.😁
Aside from Mariko's rosary, which others have already mentioned Blackthorne couldn't have, there's another clue that the scene with the grandchildren isn't real, and that's the fact that the kids referred to the Japanese as "savages".
That was John's initial perspective upon his _arrival_ in Japan. He had zero understanding or respect for Japanese customs or culture and planned on being every bit as exploitative as he'd accused the Portuguese of being, which we later get from his confession to Toranaga about coming there to use him. If he'd succeeded and returned to Britain as a colonizer, it's exactly the mindset you'd expect his descendants to have.
It isn't his perspective at the time of Mariko's death, however. John has been changed by his time in Japan. He understands the language and cultural norms and more importantly, he now respects the people he once viewed as savages.
No Jon x Fuji boat scene 😢
The episode is called "A Dream of A Dream." The old man scenes were all his dream of returning. This is his old life. The three pivotal scenes in this episode were:
1. John's attempt at sepukku which showed that he had fully embraced being a samurai/serving Toranaga. He had two choices at that point: 1. continue with his current path which may eventually lead to returning to England OR to remain. Also remember during that scene he has a flashback to the dream - which then disappears because he has changed his future by committing to the moment and moving on from his past life (he is de facto reborn during the seppuku scene)
2. The Boat Scene with Fuji: This is a pivotal scene because John has at last found peace. He truly moves forward with his life by letting go of Mariko through the release of the rosary to the depths of the water - just like Fuji has done. In addition, by releasing the rosary, it makes the future dream impossible (in which he had the rosary in his hand).
3. Yabu's seppuku scene. Toranaga "Why Tell a Dead man the future...." This was the exact line Yabu told Omi in the first episode. Toranaga was always listening to information from every possible source and considering his strategy accordingly. In addiiton, his inner third heart was of course always to be Shogun.
"why tell a dead men the future" is what yabushige told omi in relation to torunaga in one of the earlier episodes, confirming that omi was spying for torunaga since the beginning
In the instance after the explosion, while stunned or unconscious, John dreamed the future, but it wasn't the future he wanted, it was the one he thought, in that moment, he was destined for.
Ep. 9 and this were his transformation, culminating with his willingness to commit seppuku to save Ajiro, his "home". And just like Fuji, he imparted the remains of Mariko into the sea so that she would remain with him there always, as would Fuji's husband and child. Truly powerful stuff.
Also, by stating to Yabushige, "Why tell a dead man the future?", Toranaga was, in fact, not only confirming that yes, his secret plan was to become Shogun, but that he was aware of Yabushige's actions from the very beginning, whether it was Omi or his other hand that was keeping him abreast (possibly both). Yabushige smiled upon realizing this and Toranaga smirked back to confirm it.
Lastly, I particularly loved the line about not controlling the wind, but studying it. This is what made Toranaga (Tokugawa) so brilliant and successful.There were too many variables to have planned everything out, but he was able to quickly understand and adapt to each change of direction, allowing him to continue. This began when he was a child being held by his family's enemies for 6 years.
Just brilliant writing and character development. I sincerely hope the showrunners are able to do the same for the upcoming seasons.
I love this episode for two reasons: 2nd, the two quotes from episode 1 that resurfaced in this episode, "Why tell a dead man the future," and "Let her (your) hands be the last to hold her son (her)." 1st, how the series misdirects every watcher, we're led to believe the climax would be the great battle of samurai, where in fact, the great battle was Mariko v Ishido. This episode is more of an epilogue to Season 1.
Toranaga's purpose is peaceful world without war. 🏯
Many tourists are now coming to Edo, which he built. 🏯🏘🏘
「Welcome to the peaceful world of Tokyo !」🏯🏢🏢
We like to see war in TV/movies because we find it cool when in reality is absolutely destructive for everyone involved, whenever it was a city and a war happened, is now a cementery, Toranaga knew this and made it pretty clear: the most important thing is maintain the country alive. And its kinda showed when the earth shakes after Ishido and the council shouts "War is inevitable". Because of how ugly a war can be, and is because of that why Shogun ends not with war, but with a poem.
In the episode 9, when Mariko say his first poem she says "on a leafless branch" (Ochiba name translates to "fallen leaves") and then is followed by "flowers are only flowers because they fall" this is a suggestion that neither Mariko or Ochiba would have done or would've never become the people they did without being separated (it explains why Ochiba stood up for Mariko so many times, she realize this the moment Mariko said the poem). Then in episode 10 the poem is finished by "But thankfully, the wind" which is a reference of Yabushige and Toranaga's talk in the hill. When Yabushige ask about shaping the wind and Toranaga's says he studies it, because he is the wind Ochiba credits with bringing her back to Mariko, for reconnecting the fallen leaves and the fallen flower with their branch.
Also, Absence is the center of Shogun ending, Mariko is gone, John's ship is gone, Yabushige is gone, and the Taiko's wife who started everything is also gone, and the war that we were all expecting is nowhere to be found. Like Kiku said in the 6th episode: "You see where the flask is no longer. Presence is felt most keenly in absence". I felt like something was missing in the episode and after thinking I was right, something IS missing, and is the point: Peace is never something thrilling, and it was what Toranaga's wanted since the start, win the war peacefully, and the truth is, peace is boring.
Just a thought, but there is a famous quote that says, "All that we are or seem. Is but a dream within a dream." It's from Edgar Allan Poe. I take it to mean in the context of your conversation about the episode/show, that it's all a perception, and dreams never end, nor do we fully understand the meaning behind them, or learn all there is to know from them. Perceptions shape reality, and reality always changes based on a person's understanding of life and their experiences in life. Kind of like the reflection of a mountain on a still lake, compared to trying to see the same relfection if the lake is disturbed. It isn't the mountains that are gone, or the lake that is gone. It's just the picture/reflection has changed. Good reaction to an excellent show.
If yall are interested on what is gonna be about the season 2:
Following the real history, I believe that in the second season we're gonna see: Extending the Shogun story (Toranaga) following to Sekigahara and Toranaga becoming Shogun, then the shogunate move of expelling the Catholics from Japan. Blackthorne building his fleet an working with his crew to establish Dutch trade replacing the Portuguese. The increasing anti-Catholic movement, followed by the Siege of Osaka (And the heir/lady ochiba defeat), where we finally see Blackthorne's cannons and Toranaga's secret heart followed by his son as Shogun. I feel like season 2 is going to be way darker.
I've watched this show through a few times now and I'm still picking up on different things. This show was a 10 for me.. Especially the more I've re watched it.
I can’t believe you cut out the scattering of Mariko’s ashes 😮
And the Yabushige expectation for not dying was weird. He was a disloyal mf.
Yabushige was right to be disloyal. His mistake was being dumb. Toranaga is the biggest villain in the show lol He manipulates and uses everyone around him for his goals, including his best friend. Jon was not completely wrong when he accused toranaga of leading his loyal vassals to death
@@GustavoCardoso95 I’m not disputing whether it was right or wrong, just that they should’ve expected Toranaga to kill him for it. He’s totally Machievellian I agree.
Buntaro was utterly broken by that point, think about it. Hoping the dude has the ultimate Hero redemption arc as a second season looks likely.
The best companion piece to Shogun is Blue Eye Samurai. I believe you would love that show. Watching it soon after Shogun gave me new appreciation for both.
The thing about Toranaga granting Mariko her wish is, Mariko does admit to Buntaro that it wasn't death that she craved, it was the life she couldn't live with him. And I'm pretty sure that Toranaga knew that. But he didn't choose to nurture her desire to live because it was againat his plans, so he nurtured the desire to die for a purpose instead. Remember the scene "Oh, didn't you know your father wanted you to fight his fight but instead you've been feeling sorry for yourself this whole time?". Very guilt-tripping. So even the he-granted-her-her-wish part is questionable.
As for the ending, I'm quite content and I didn't need more episodes, though. We're left in the shadow of Toranaga who still has plans to envision and who will use anyone to achieve those plans. No one is safe in his shadow, which is why he stands above everyone else in the final scene. This show is the character study of Toranaga more than anything. I didn't feel like it needed something else.
Yabushige said the same exact words "Why tell a dead man the future?" to Omi back in episode 1 that's why he smiled because he figured out the Omi was a spy all along.
Yesssss thank you. I was about to type the same thing. Its such a good hint
I believe it was Yabushige's aide, not Omi, who was Toranaga's spy on Yabushige. The third guy in that scene with Yabu's death poem and the will who wished him a 'good death'.
Everybody who is thinking that Omi was the spy is wrong. It was Takemaru who was the real spy, silently present with Yabushige all the time and the fact that we all missed it shows how good he was. A true spy will never even come in suspicion.
I believe the smirk at the end from toranaga i think confirms what yabushige said about him wanting to be shogun in his secret heart
Where the boat scene, are you insane leaving that out?
The "Taiko" uses the phrase "Dream of a dream" when he was on his deathbed when he was asking Toranaga to protect the Heir.
it´s good that you understood that torunaga was playing everyone and the show focuses on that, torunaga playing the "game of thrones" :D we just didn´t know it, but he always wanted to be shogun
1. "Flowers are only flowers bcoz they fall" - Mariko
2. "Flowers are only flowers bcoz they fall, but thankfully the wind"- Lady Ochiba
3. "How does it feel to command the wind?" - Yabushige
"I don't control the wind, I only study it" - Toronaga
Mariko was the flower that falls, Yabushige was the wind that assisted and Toronaga was the guy who studied the wind. Yabushige didn't flip even after Toronaga confirmed his surrender in front of the priest so Toda Hiromatsu had to die to change his mind bcoz Toronaga needed Yabushige to flip. This show is pure poetry ♥♥. Also, all the letters are actually written as poems so even if someone reads them, they wouldn't know what it actually means which is confirmed when Toronaga asks Kiri No Kata if she read the secret letter given by Lady Ochiba and then Toronaga reads the poem/letter.
Hiroyuki Sanada, actor who plays Toranaga, said; Only reason Toranaga looked to become Shogun was just because in his experience the peace age of Japan was not possible unless anyone but himself was in charge.
Also that scene is a dream of John, not his future. He actually stayed in Japan beside Toranaga his whole life.
That's the actor saying how he rationalized his performance. I believe there is more to Toranaga's character than that, he is not just a "hero", there is ambition there
Thank you for another great series my friends 💙
That ''why tell a dead man the future'' was what Yobu said about Toranaga on episode 1. He used the exact words just to make a point i think and Yobu also realizes it. They both understand each other, they both see each others secret heart at the final moment. I think that explains the smirk a bit also.
See you on another journey 👋
48:29 You're right: "The battle of Sekigahara was incredible, Tokugawa’s (Toranaga) Eastern Army with 75,000 men, and Ishido’s Western Army with 120,000 men. Its outcome resulted in a 200-year dynasty. The battle took place on October 21st, 1600 on a morning draped in so much fog that neither side could plan an attack or even see where the other army stood. When the fog cleared and the battle began two massive armies clashed along river banks and through the hills beneath the shadow of Mount Nangu. The battle’s fierce fighting ended in betrayal on Mount Nangu, where the commander of the Mōri army refused to help a retreating Ishida, who was forced to surrender and was later executed. Elsewhere, sieges were laid to various strongholds around Japan. Tokugawa emerged victorious and founded the first Edo shogunate. It would have made for an epic hour of television."
“Why tell a dead man the future” was something that he said about Toranaga when he thought Toranaga would die. He is saying it back to him letting him know what he said behind his back.
@39:00 When you said you feel like there’s more to that question, that’s because in the first episode of Shōgun, Yabushige said to Omi “why tell a dead man the future?” when they were talking about Toranaga. That’s probably why you felt there was more to it. I actually had to watch reaction videos just to understand it.
It's interesting to think of Torunaga letting the falcon go free as his own personal way to "let go" of Mariko. If you rewatch episode 1, what he says about the falcon in his introduction scene is him essentially revealing/foreshadowing Mariko's story.
It's friday, I just got vacation and then I see a you've realesed the finale reaction. Life's good!
Man us brokies can't afford to watch the most emotional scene at the end 😂
I know you have a few series on at the moment but have you ever watched. 'The Last Kingdom.' It's a must watch if you like GOT or Vikings
❤ love that series yes
We need this. We want this. Let Uthred Ragnarson come forth
Great Series ngl
+1
@@fred7193+2
Remember in the first episode when Yabushige said to his nephew "why tell a dead man the future?" in regards to telling Lord Toranaga about the ship and the guns etc. Toranaga used that same line against him while also letting him know that he knew everything he was saying and planning behind his back in 'secret'
The ending was that way because the point of this show is a display of opposing factions outside of the "cool" battles. The different tactics and plans that could be used without drawing a sword.
Spartan & Pudgey Awesome Video Today!!🔥🐐🐐💎
"Flowers are only flowers because they fall, but thankfully the wind" Mariko was the flower and Yabushige was the wind since episode one.
Where's the BOAT SCENE?!
What an amazing show this was. As glad as I am that they have confirmed a season 2 and 3, it’s so damn sad we’re losing such great characters as Mariko, Fuji, Yabushige, etc. amazing characters that made this show something truly special. Can’t wait to see what happens next and what other great characters come up.
I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Fuji again - we've had priest characters, so why not a nun or two?
There was never meant to be additional seasons you know.
It is interesting they are doing more, I do worry about the quality in terms if the deep interconnected character plots and deceptions and stuff, since this season was based off of strong source material. Future seasons don't have the same source material to work from, but they do still have the historical people they were based on to pull inspiration.
They way I look at it is, I'm happy to see more, but if its not very good, the first season will still be really good and stands on its own. Luckily they didn't end this seasons dependent on additional seasons to make a full story.
Many people phrase this ending and Toranaga's play as some kind of "chess in real life". However, Toranaga is playing the japanese game, shogi. Wich unlike chess, in shogi you can use stolen pieces. For this reason, there is also a strategy to capture the king (The Heir/His mother) by taking away important pieces as decoys (Mariko, Anjin, Yabu,etc).
Strategy is of utmost importance for victory.
Eso is today one of the top cities in this world. Tokyo
BTW The real John Blackthorne (Adam Willams) never got back to England, in fact he married, had two kids and die in Japan at like 55. Altough he was able to sent letters to his family in England. There are some documents about some British sailors who went to Japan to deliver letters from the British crown and John did as translator for them.
These sailors said in the documents that Adam Willams was absolutely a Japanese but with an European face, he knew the lenguage perfectly and knew every custom.
Watch the original 1980 miniseries of Shogun. It’s also amazing
Torunaga saying "Why tell a dead man the future" to Yabushige means that Omi (whom Yabushige first said that line) had been secretly telling Toru about everything Yabu was doing, and Yabu only finding that out right before he died.
If you re-watch the first episode you'll see Yabushige saying "Why tell a dead man the future" so he's just repeating his own words which was an epic moment.
When I started watching this show I thought that it would last for years! When I realized it was only going to be 1 season I was beyond disappointed. When I finished the series I was I felt teased that there wouldn't be an epic war. I looked into what plans were for the future and it looked like they would have a few different mini series exactly like THE WALKING DEAD which I was furiously disappointed with. I felt that there should be a few years for Shogun and now that I've heard that there will be I just hope that they don't wreck it.
pls react to Blue-Eye Samurai next
I think this is second time I watch someone who found Yabushige's poem a little weird and ask "why?" meanwhile I find it beautiful poem, made me tear up. I wonder if it is a culture or belief thing. I should look up for a reactions that is not western to compare, only if I wasn't lazy.
I wonder why no one ever picks up on in episode 2 John notices the samurai battle armor and Mariko notes Toranaga had it made specifically from a dream he had and it's style dates back many generations to the Minowara shogunate. They revealed his plan was always to resurrect his destiny by bringing back the Shogun.
I feel like Marikos death was kind of like a monkeys paw wish thing. Toronaga said he would grant her her wish so her destiny was set, he created a purpose for it, and the monkeys paw bit is that she didn’t want to die in the end but knew it was her fate and so accepted it bravely.
There are so many layers to everything in this show it’s absolutely wild.
They took the earthquake during the council meeting as divine portent. The gods giving them an immediate response.
Haha, y'all didn't recall the callback. One of the earliest scenes we see of Yabushike and Omi talking, Yabushike says "why tell a dead man the future" when Omi asks if he will report the barbarian ship and canons to his lord, Toranaga. However, Toragana was never there for that conversation, so the callback means that Toranaga has an inside man all along, most likely Omi, and he knows absolutely EVERYTHING that happens in his domain.
Ieyasu Tokugawa (Toronaga)
İktidara gelişinin hikayesini anlatıyor. Mariko Dono'nun torunları, büyük büyükannelerinin ölüm sahnesine kızdılar. Çünkü Mariko, canlı yakalanmadan önce kendi adamlarına onu öldürmelerini emretti. Segikihara savaşını kazandı ve şogun oldu. Meji ayaklanmasına kadar iktidarı ellerinde tuttular.
First of all cutting the scene out of Fuji and John at the end was an enormous mistake. The reason that it is a mistake is, besides being a very touching well acted scene it tells you a few things you dont realize you just saw. Everyone thinks the bed ridden version in the beginning is a hallucination but I disagree. I think if you watch that scene with John and Fuji at the end she looks at John with complete love on her face as if she is falling in love with him. I think the cross he holds in the bed is hers. The sword the kids are talking about was her fathers, given to him by her. I think when the next season comes out we will see that.
I think you're reaching. By the end they are bound by a friendship, not love. Cutting that scene was cruel nonetheless... it's the best scene of this episode.
@@GagaTukiTuki Did you read the book??? Because I did.
Ieyasu Tokugawa (Toronaga)
It tells the story of his coming to power. Mariko Dono's grandchildren were angry at the death scene of their great-grandmother. Because Mariko ordered his own men to kill him before he was captured alive. He won the battle of Segikihara and became shogun. They held power until the Meji uprising.
Maybe off topic, but the Meiji Restoration makes me very sad. I think an emperor is a proper ruler, but it was very upsetting to learn that both sides of the fight were actually being played by foreign powers, it’s almost enough to wish it never happened.
As most of the characters in the show, Buntaro is based on a real person, and in fact in terms of age Buntaro might be the one who had the longest life, longest than Willam Adams (John) who died at 55 in Japan.
This was quite faithful to the book. The book doesn't end with a big battle either: it just happens offstage. This was not a tale of battle.
I was a little disappointed that it didn't end with the fate of Ishido from the book.
The sequels in the book series make it clear that John never left Japan. But it's also worth noting that the book sequels do not take place with the same characters or the same place. They move into the future. I don't think there's enough left in Shogun for a direct sequel with the same people. But the show creators think there is. So they plan to follow the story, and there is quite a bit in the future between the real Toranaga and the Heir.
But I hoped the sequels would look at future Clavell books: Shogun takes place in 1600, Tai-Pan in 1841 and mostly in Hong Kong, and Gai-Jin in 1862. This would make 3 seasons.
King Rat takes place in 1945, and there is already a good movie adaptation. Noble House and Whirlwind move out of Japan. So they are a big different, especially as they get closer to the modern day.
He asks “if he’s always wanted to be Shogun” Torunaga answers “why tell a dead man the future?” It’s a rhetorical question. As to say I will be Shogun in the future but telling you would be pointless since you will die. Basically a playful way of confirming it.
Wow Spartan really likes Yabushige lol but now that you guys mention it i think John was dreaming in the beginning because theres no way Toranaga would let him leave Japan. Toranaga wanted to keep using John until he died. John was ultimately an enemy even though he wasnt planning to try to use Toranaga specifically he went to Japan to use Japanese people in general, not Toranaga (to be fair). I'm excited for the future of the show. I hope there is a little more action going forward.
And when i say action i dont mean battle of the bastards type action i mean suspensful 1v1 samurai combat.
I'd recommend watching the 1980-version as well. To my surprise I liked it even more. Not as visually stunning, but I liked the story (which is largely the same, but still different enough) more.
I think the best comment about this was with shogun you think you’re rooting for Ned but it’s revealed you’ve been rooting for Tywin. Yabu had to go, he was too awful a menace. But of course they would pick such a charismatic actor for him to add spice. Ngl, I immediately went to that first to see your reaction. Great stuff!
Loved this! ♥
Oh man, you cheated us out of one of the best scenes in the episode. When Blackthorne and Fuji went out to the water and made their peace with their loved ones. So disappointed! Great reaction other than that.
I read somewhere that in the book he actually says that he keeps the Anjin around because in the end, even him needs a friend (Wich IMO it makes the whole seppuku scene even more impactful, is Toranaga saving a friend, that friend that doesnt share the same culture as him so he can actually save from a seppuku). I wish the showrunners had kept that. I absolutely hate the "Because hes funny haha" thing, is absolutely off-character from Toranaga. We all know, even him, that he keeps him around because he feels somewhat responsible and "friend" with him. Thats why in the book Anjin is also gifted with the Ajiro village.
Eastern thought riddles this series. Sun Tzu's Art of War figures prominantly in the thought process. Toranaga comes off as a bad guy in a way unless you thoroughly understand his perspective. You don't need to know his secret heart because he already revealed it early when he noted that a civil war would involve massive pointless death. Why condemn so many to die when if you play your cards right, nobody needs to die or only a minimal few. The people close to Toranaga understood and wee the ones mainly engaging in the sacrifice necessary to long term save lives and stop an actual civil war.
From the start, understanding the 'schemers' on the council, we understand their power was more important to them than any consideration of the lives of others. To that end, Yoshi Toranaga is revealed as the one man who could possibly lead who actually considers that all life has it's value. He both says and demonstrates that he means that a meaningless death is a waste of a life. Stopping Anjin from taking his own life and forcibly pushing the issue, gave Anjin purpose again, just as Mariko had been given purpose again.
Sun Tzu tells you that you win a war before picking up a weapon and before ever touching the field of battle or likely not at all. Strategy - understanding your opponent, understanding the interactions of the players, understanding who all the players are and what their motivations are.. And getting out of their way when they're busily destroying themselves. Understanding where you need to apply pressure and where you need expend no energy.. that is the art of war.
Yoshi Toranaga, lord of the Kanto, understood from the jump that while he didn't want power, as a wise and decent man, if he didn't step up, it would cost him and a lot of others their lives. The deciet of the others needed bodies to re enforce the pretense that they played at even when people understood it was just theater. I note his title to underscore Yoshi isn't just some guy. He's a lord with deep understanding and appreciation for the way life works in Japan and the way the politics works. He was better at playing the game of politics than all the others and he clearly thinks his witts were assisted by Karma. He's a man of confidence. And confidence, to evil folks, is arrogance. So it paints an interesting picture.
I think everyone has come to this story with an expectation of a european mindset for war. People prepare for war expecting the battle. When you don't get the battle you feel let down. So this is where Sun Tzu comes in. The struggle of the entire show has been to avoid bloodshed. The monumental victory of the story is that the decent man rises to power without bloodshed, having gone out of his way to avoid it. And, the decent man is willing to rule in order to stop the brutal and unethical from taking power and making Japan into a miserable ATM, if you will, for the Pope. In real life, Anjin stays in Japan, rises in the royal court and is the reason the Catholics were kicked out of Japan. A long peace settles over Japan.
So Ishido who obv had his own power play and the council’s initial fears and accusations were correct. As well as Ochiba
Y’all are the best.
IIRC the book ended the same way as this season, so I don't know what season 2 and 3 will be about. They will have no James Clavell book to base it on.
Relax everyone. They probably cut the boat scene because they didn't want you all to see them ugly cry. 😭
Please redo this video to include your reaction to the boat scene. Its lack of presence in your video is big. In my opinion, it is one of the most beautiful and pivotal scenes in the whole first season. If this is by design, I understand, but its omission is notceable.
I was fine with this being a one and done season but apparently it's been renewed for two more!
It's in the book I think but Ochiba has animosity towards Toranaga because he knows that the "heir" is illegitimate - ie...she had an affair. That's why she mostly sides with Ishido among other reasons.
If there is a sequel it will be Toranaga vs Ochiba and her grown up son basically.