🎹Yamaha C2X vs Kawai GX2 Grand Piano Comparison, Review, & Demo🎹
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#C2X #GX2 #Yamaha
Welcome to another piano comparison video here at Merriam Pianos. In today’s video, we’ll be comparing the Yamaha C2X with Kawai’s GX2.
These are two of the most popular institutional pianos in the world, and also a common choice among folks seeking a professional quality grand piano for the home. They’re almost always compared directly by consumers, so we hope this video will help in breaking down the exact differences between these two titans.
If this is the first time to the Merriam Pianos channel, please subscribe, we’d really appreciate the support!
Yamaha C2X
The Yamaha C2X is a 5’8” Japanese professional grand piano, and serves as an evolved version of the famous Yamaha C2. There’s a lot of things to like about the C2X, which we will cover below.
Piano Sound:
Yamaha’s traditional tonal profile is often thought of as a brighter sound, and in recent years the tone has been frequently referred to as “crispy”. There’s a couple of reasons for this including hammer design, and more importantly, the scale design - Yamaha’s tend to have a higher scale tension and shorter strings than Kawai’s.
The C2X is definitely still brighter than the GX2, though not as bright as other models from the past, such as the C2. Yamaha has changed their hammer design, as well as the material selection for their strings, which has resulted in a more colourful and less metallic tone. The midrange is really clear, which makes the C2X a good option for recording.
While not as thick as the GX rim, the rim here has been made thicker than past models, which is another improvement worth noting.
Action:
The action is very quick and responsive, with a lighter overall touch curve so to speak, meaning higher volume levels come quicker, but at the expense of control in the lower dynamic ranges. This is definitely a solid all around action.
Kawai GX2
The Kawai GX2 is a 5’11” Japanese grand piano, and is an evolved version of Kawai’s previous generation RX2. While the GX2 is three inches longer than the C2X, the longest bass string is actually even longer than 3 inches as compared to the C2X due to differences in the scale design. Despite the size difference, these two models are still positioned against one another in the market.
Piano Sound
It’s noticeable right off the hop that the GX2 has a warmer, darker tone than the C2X, and it’s also very clear when playing in the lower dynamic ranges that the GX2 has a more active cabinet and soundboard. The GX2 uses a tapered solid spruce soundboard, compared to a non-tapered soundboard in the C2X. Tapering a soundboard allows more of the soundboard to activate and vibrate, especially in lower dynamic ranges.
There’s no doubt that these two instruments sound quite different with their own distinct characters - no one is going to come away after playing the two of them and view them as sounding similar.
Action:
The action on the GX2 is also very different from the C2X. For starters, the GX2 has extended length keysticks, approximately an inch longer than the keysticks on the C2X. Longer keysticks means you’re working with a longer lever, resulting in more torque at higher dynamic levels, and more control at lower dynamics.
The other big difference is in the action parts themselves. Yamaha uses a more traditional wooden action, whereas the Kawai GX2 utilizes a carbon fibre reinforced Millennium III action. Aside from the musical advantages of carbon fiber that Kawai argues for, the mechanical advantages from a maintenance standpoint are undisputed - carbon fiber doe not shrink and well with changes in humidity, and is more durable over time, which is why precision parts in most industries are no longer made with wood.
This action is lightning fast and a pleasure to play.
Summary:
These are two distinctly different differences, and one’s own musical perceptions will ultimately drive which instrument they prefer. From a build quality standpoint, both are very well made without a clear front-runner. The GX2 is going to provide a more colourful palette for solo piano playing, but the C2X might be a better option for recording.
Thanks for watching!
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OK. Maybe no one will see this comment, but your playing style, description of how the pianos are constructed differently and how that affects tone, action, etc. and your explanation of those aspects of sound are exceptional and appreciated.
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! I will be more than happy to pass along those incredibly kind words to Stu on your behalf. Thanks for watching! :)
Appreciate the content. Nice mix of technical and tone explanations, piano playing, 'cozy' feel of the presentation and video editing. Keep it up :)
Much appreciated!
I started on this channel just trying to get a grasp of the differences in the Roland 30/60/90x a couple weeks ago to ending up ordering a CA79 last week. Now I can't stop watching these videos though. They're all excellently done and I love hearing Stu go in detail about each piano. Thanks for making all of the great content!
Great comparison, absolutely love the sound of that Kawai. Such a full sound! Can't wait to get out and try one
Great review
Love your videos, I'm learning so much about what elements of a piano's design contributes to its sound and touch. Do you think you could do a video about choosing a piano for a particular room or space? e.g. carpeted or timber-floored living room, large room, hall, church, concert hall, etc.
Glad you're enjoying the videos! The engineering meeting the artistry is where my fascination is most heightened with pianos for sure. I'm happy that it's translating into useful content for you!! -stu
Best piano channel, bar none!
👌🙏 Thank you!! -stu
Your Yamaha description is spot on. We have this piano at work and I play it regularly. I couldn’t articulate it like that, but it’s exactly how I would describe it if I could have.
Thanks so much for the support, glad you enjoyed the video and I really appreciate the comment!
Curious what line of work has Yamaha C2x at workplace and employee gets to play it regularly.
@@jisyang8781I work in healthcare, there is usually a piano at most hospitals. I think Houston Methodist actually had their own orchestra populated with their employees.
Excellent video Stu, many thanks. My final choice was the Yamaha C2X, it is an outstanding instrument for my purposes, mostly live recording and playing of jazz. Thank you.
You're very welcome! Thank you for the kind words and for tuning in! Enjoy your Yamaha C2X! :)
Interesting perspective on live vs. recorded to favor Yamaha because in NYC, it is very difficult to find a Kawai used in live settings. The majority of venues I go to to hear Classical, modern concert music or jazz, there's a Yamaha or Steinway, almost equally distributed in venues, and much favoring Steinway in concert halls. There is one hotel that has a lovely Kawai, I'm not sure what model it is but I think it's an RX3. There's a small club that closed that had a Kawai upright. Otherwise it is Steinway, Steinway, Yamaha, Yamaha, Steinway, etc. There's an occasional Schimmel or old Baldwin or something else. So, most definitely I hear Yamahas as live instruments. When I hear them as solo instruments, they're the CFX or older CF or occasionally an S6. To my ears, the CFX doesn't sound dramatically different than the CXs. It has more depth and refinement, but, it's a similar type of tone quality. The CX tone is a filtered down, less complex CFX tone.
I do wish there were more other than Steinway or Yamaha pianos out in venues, at least where I am. It's just due to marketing that there's not much diversity. So, I think, in a way, both Steinway and Yamaha get more "they're ok but I like X better" because they tend to dominate in markets and it's unfair that other interesting and great pianos aren't as commonly found. But still, Steinway and Yamahas are very good in their own signature ways. But other makes, like Kawai, deserve to be heard in public as well.
Hey Benjamin - another thing I've found is that until the GX came around, not only was the tone less projecting and more blended, but straight up volume output was below that of Yamaha. I've done several samples now with different examples of GX2 / GX3 next to C2x and C3x, and the GX is just projects far better. BUT - this really is only in the last 5-6 years that I think this is defendably the reality. Takes a while for clubs to replace pianos, and there aren't too many opening new these days, so a lot of those purchases would have been made somewhere between mid 80's and mid 2000's I'd guess...no question the C series Yamaha of that era out punched the RX's in terms of treble and projection. (I still enjoyed playing the RX privately more...found it to be more nuanced and much more controllable in lower dynamic ranges). -stu
Thanks you. Very helpful showing where the tone changes in the bass. What should we be listening for in the treble when trying out pianos?
Also, I’d like to know more about the differences between Yamaha SX and CF models in particular the CF4. Are you able to review a Yamaha CF4? What other brands/models would this compare with at that price point?
I very much like my Kawai GX2, which I have had for 4 years. I chose it because I found the tone more interesting and better for classical and romantic music than the Yamahas I tried, which I found very clear and consistent in tone, but a bit plain and ‘vanilla’. I have recordings of my Kawai GX2 on my channel. The only problem I’ve found with it has been that I found the Millennium III action does not respond well to the very damp English climate. At high humidities I found it got a sluggish, and I had to put a lot of work into reducing the humidity in the action to around 50%, which solved it. In any case, it’s not the piano for you if you like a light, easy action. It’s better for the stronger player.
Thank you so much for your detailed information as always. Yes, I do like Yamaha and I virtually grew up with it--I have a U1 upright from when I got into piano seriously (I must have been around the age of 8) but it has now given up on me after regular playing!!! :( I also love the way you describe the sudden breaks over the different registers, I don't mind it but it can get annoying after a while especially during long practice sessions. That's why I want to look at Schimmel and experience, I heard amazing things about it especially the tonal flexibility over the different dynamic levels.
I don't hate Yamaha at all--I have listened to recordings of the C2X and there seems to be a lot of colour as you open up the dynamic range and apply more speed on the key. It's just that overall the tonal focus is on the higher frequencies, more on the medium side than mellow, and also shifts in the different registers especially from middle to treble.
@@rachelstarritt481 Listen to the C3X Espressivo. Yamaha has fiddled with the hammers and a few other things and now I think they've found the bigger range of tonal colors in their Conservative line (so far the Espressivo is only on the C3X and it is more expensive than the regular C3X). I especially like Anna Ojo's demonstration of it.
Came back to this review today and the GX2 is so superb and for me choice is an easy one.
Given the price of these instruments, the quality of sound can only be said to be astounding. Both just sound great. Though my heart beats for Bechstein and August Förster.
This is a great review. Stu at his best. I am missing these reviews in 2024.
Michael
Thank you kindly! :)
You are a very nice pianist!
Wonderful Kawai gx2.
Which microphone did you use record it?
It is so perfect that it seems a digital piano.
Even the GL 30 or 40, made in Japan have narrow wood?
Highly informative thank you. That resonance at the lower transition is highly noticeable (and very annoying) in the Yamaha and barely noticeable in the Kawai.. This now, after a decade also explains to me why I don't like the main piano patch in the S70XS stage piano...lol
You're very welcome! Thanks so much! The GX2 has a gorgeous voice and the transitions are beautifully seamless. It really is a joy to play and hear! :)
You're helping me a lot since I your playing is very similar to mine. How would you describe the difference between the Shigeru Sk2 and the Gx2? BTW Keith Jarrett is my main influence. I hear a little Keith there!
11:39 that voicing!
Hi Stu, I always like your very informative videos. In this case, though, the difference in size can make a difference, three inches counts.
By the way, with your expertise you helped me to choose my first piano, a Kawai GL-30.
People often says that technical differences and explanation do not count because what matters is the sound, we are supposed to choose a piano from what we hear in a showroom. However, different preparation and placement in the showroom can make a big difference that makes difficult to compare two pianos even in the same showroom. Therefore, informative videos are great help, for me your videos on the qualities of the GL series and of Millennium III action have been decisive to take my decision. Thank you again.
Very nice? How much did you get the GL30 for out the door? I got mines to 21k brand new out the door 🚪
@@gustavogo2915 Payed my GL-30 13.300 euro. I was uncertain between the one I bought, a Yamaha GC1, and a W. Steinberg that had a very nice sound.
Thank you dude
Thanks for tuning in! We appreciate it. :)
One major attraction to the Yamaha as a music producer is the optional Disklavier system. Is there really any alternative to Disklavier in the same price/piano-quality range?
great video Stu, can you pls also do a comparison for C3X tvs GX3? thanks.
Hi Michelle! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks for tuning in! We're glad you enjoyed the video. We will certainly do our best to tackle a C3X vs GX3 comparison down the road. :)
@@MerriamPianos many thanks, looking forward to it 🙂
@@MerriamPianos we are waiting for that one :)
Fantastic work on these videos Stu, you are truly a reference. Which one has best action between the 2 in your opinion? I am very sensitive to action and would rather opt for a piano that has better "resolution" and evenness in this sense.
Hi! Brent here! It really comes down to a matter of subjectivity and personal preference. In my opinion, the GX2's Millennium III carbon fibre action is superior. In addition to having a more responsive touch and a faster repetition speed, it is also a more stable and durable action in my experiences. :)
@@MerriamPianos Thanks Brent. I was talking about it with a local piano tuner/seller who was skeptical about the long term durability of the plastic used in the Millennium III action. He said that we know everything about long term evolution of wood, but plastic? we don't really know what happens in a span of 30-40 years. It kinda made sense to me and made me wonder, but it's true, trying Yamaha and Kawai in quick succession in the shop I had a feeling of better control on the Kawai.
The Kawai sounds great
Lots to learn in this video.
1. Piano sound in a concert hall may not lend itself well to a recording.
2. Transition between steel and copper in the lower range.
3. Key press contour.
and so much more.
It's a wonderful world to dive into! Thanks again for continuing to enjoy the channel Saif!! Really appreciate it.
Amazing show-off! I would also be really interested in hearing a comparison of the larger models of both companies, for example a GX6 vs. the equivalent on the Yamaha side. I do feel like the sound of the GX6 pushes into the most premium section of the marked, so having your insights on it would be highly appreciated!
Greeting from Germany
Lots of excellent points.
"...metallic brightness...". Which was likely what I used to hear from Yamaha's of olde which I found painfully bright. Gone from the CX Series.
I think in the end...it comes down to sound preference more than all the TECH and engineering approach pluses and minuses. There's a good reason why artists like David Foster has always preferred Yamaha piano's. Even as his own at home piano's. Elton John. Alecia Keys. Should try to get them into your show room. Get them to give their own personal opinions on "Why Yamaha?". Do they own other brands in addition...at home..or do they only prefer Yamaha piano's when recording/concerts.?
Well, Yamahas are popular not only in studios but also in schools, venues, homes. They're known to be built well, for the most part. The action is praised in most models, especially grands. Technicians seem to like them but technicians have their own strong opinions about brands.
Classical and jazz musicians also liked Yamaha. Glenn Gould performed in his later years on Yamaha CFs. Richter did as well. Yamaha has a good amount of Classical performers who also prefer them. Andre Watts did for a long time as well. And there are jazz players like the late Chick Corea that did as well. But Steinway has jazz players and lots of them, Keith Jarrett and Oscar Peterson for instance.
There were always Yamahas that were not painfully bright. Some were, some weren't. They were easy to go bright if they weren't voiced down. But now, the tone is, well, focused on other aspects where brightness isn't the first characteristic one may notice. There's some left in some models, but I think it's the sharp articulation and eschewing a very "full" or "full-bodied" sound that makes Yamaha have the characteristic it has. It's the opposite of Kawai, which has quite a lush, rich sound overall. Yamaha's tone is precise, and very moldable to articulation--I think that's what sets it apart. But that doesn't mean the tone is "simple," just "cleaner" than some other pianos. I think the strength of Yamaha is how it contrast with itself, something that may not be apparent initially but noticeable the more it is played. With Steinway, Kawai to a degree, Bechstein, you hear this rich tone. With Fazioli and Bechstein, great clarity with some tone complexity. With Yamaha and to a degree Bosendorfer, it's less rich but able to create different layers of articulation and sound and that's where the latter are "rich." It's all great stuff. I wish people wouldn't try to find a "best" or "better" sometimes in these comparisons and just see the personalities and choices each instrument or "brand characteristic" identities a brand offers and work with those. What's best is always subjective, except for maybe expenses in construction and materials and some measurable qualities. But sound appeal and action feel are subjective.
May I ask which Microphones you are using here? The sound is amazing!
those mics are neumann u87
The broken chords in this video are insanely beautiful.
agree
where
He did a good job. The beginning was a bit rough, but I was impressed after 10 minutes until the end
Thanks for taking the time to check out the entire video! All the best and happy playing! :)
These videos are refining my tastes. Both Yamaha and Kawai instruments are excellent but, based on previous presentations, I’m leaning much more toward W Hoffmann and C Bechstein (W Hoffmann line being more accessible to me than C Bechstein $$$)
The W. Hoffmann Tradition stuff in particular is outstanding quality for the money...can't go too wrong!
I personally fell in love with the Hoffman Professional uprights. If you haven’t played one, you definitely should before buying a piano. The tone is so close to a Concert 8 (to my ear) that there’s no way I could justify the cost difference to my wife. The actions doesn’t seem quite as buttery smooth as the 8 and really the tone isn’t as big/dynamic, but they still have a pretty similar sound and bloom. The Tradition piano that I get to play was just a small step down from the Professional and considerably cheaper, but was also very nice and still had a similar bloom to it. To my ear, the Hoffman and Bechstein pianos are just nailing the sound I love! I wouldn’t regret owning any of them. They’re were all voiced to make it easy to bring out the melody while the low end has a complexity, sustain and strength that you can just build a cloud of sound to float the melody on.
disienna I’d love to buy a house just so that I can get a Hoffmann.
Walter B., it would be well worth it. In all truth I thought the Tradition and Professional lines are the price to performance champs. That’s definitely subjective, but I played so many pianos before deciding-nearly every brand available in the SF Bay Area. There’s also Rittmuller and Perzina fromChina that are a little cheaper, but they are not really in the same class though they do punch above their price point. I’d bet on a recording you’d be hard pressed to pick out a Bechstein as being superior to a Hoffman, but you’d have a much easier time picking out the difference in your bank account ;)
disienna Pianos made in China... ah dunno, I’m still not convinced. If I make a big purchase (ie. piano) I must have no doubts and be absolutely convinced, since I plan to own it as long as I live. I’d rather save for an extra couple years and get a Hoffman rather than save a few (or many) bucks. P.S. I know that China is making some serious efforts to improve their quality and some of their products have good reviews.
A great comparison review. But here's my take on the slightly longer Yamaha C3X (6'1"). I'm sure these comments apply to the C2X reviewed here as well. My technician hates my piano because he says it hurts his ears everytime he tunes it. Before tuning he must spend a couple of hours voicing it down. This amount of needling (in addition to tuning) costs big bucks. I have the instrument tuned and voiced every 5 to 6 months. Ok, so every acoustic grand will need a voicing every so often . . . The problem is that the needling and voicing downward on the C3X does not last. After a week or so it reverts to its basic stident, metalling, clamorous, ear-busting self. Purchased new about 8 years ago, this Yamaha should not be acting like this. My tech says it's the cheap hammers and felt. With the exception of the C7X, I would say don't fall for the bright and lively sound you hear at the retailer. It's going to get even brighter and non-musical. Stay away from the C series altogether. They are cheap pure production line pianos, not any better than the ones made in China. I cannot explain why this problem does not show up in the older C7 I play at school. If you are in the market for a grand piano at this price point I would surely steer clear of the C series Yamahas. Kawaii will be a better choice.
Thank you kindly for taking the time to tune in and share you experiences! We sincerely appreciate it. :)
Tone is a very personal and subjective thing of course. Some people prefer a brighter voice over a darker/warmer one, but, with that said, bright can potentially be too bright and dark can potentially be too dark. It sounds like the Kawai sound is much more aligned with your musical tastes and preferences. In my experiences, they are extraordinary instruments through the entire line. Whether you're playing a GL20, GX3, or SK5, the quality and cost-to-value ratio at each price point is extremely impressive from Kawai. Thanks again and happy playing!
I had a Kawai k300. Not sure if it’s the difference between upright VS grand but contrary to what you said I found my new Yamaha C2X much easier to play ppp and required significant force to play super loud versus my K300 being so hard to play soft and so easy to play loud.
I agree. I have a K500 and it’s ha4d to play ppp, or even ppp or p. Loved everything about it when I played at the piano store but once it’s home and I’m playing the action is heavier than I thought. Has a great sound but the action is heavier than what I like.
K300 is very different than the GX2.
Kawai brings more tone mixing, wider spread spectrum which induces a smooth acoustic feeling to the hearing. Yamaha has stronger main peaks and that brings cool feelings.
Yamaha sounds so pleasant esp at playing jazzy tunes as demonstrated here.
These are both exceptional pianos, especially for their price point. With that said, they do have very different tonal characters, which are more aligned for certain genres/styles. :)
The most ideal is to have both.
Is it possible for Stu and the team to do a comparison on 7-foot conservatory grands like C6X vs GX-6? Thank you!
We will certainly do our best to tackle that comparison for you! Thanks so much for the suggestion! I will pass it along to Stu and the production team. :)
Hi Stu,
Your videos are the best. It helped me choose between the NV10 and the NV5. I bought the NV10 without trying it, and I found that all what you said was right to the point.
Your video about wonderful Baby Grand pianos was as if it’s the first time for me to understand how Pianos work. Thank you.
Regarding this Yamaha/Kawai video, I felt you are biased towards Kawai, which is totally fine. When you mentioned a good feature of Yamaha, you mentioned it as something they are finally getting closer to how Kawai have it. Or as if it is too much, such as how you described the bright sound. This is all fine, I have no problem with that.
However, if you allow me to share my opinion. You are in a position that the more unbiased you are, the more the audience can trust the messages that you say. Otherwise, they will feel the need to validate everything they hear.
“Or” you embrace your bias towards Kawai, and announce it openly, because there is nothing wrong about it. No body will expect Tim Cook to be unbiassed towards Apple, however, if he presents his message as if he is unbiased, it will look unnatural and odd. Like how you mentioned that you may be preferring the NV5 over the NV10.
I like Kawai much more than Yamaha, but I felt something wrong about this video. I am sharing this with you because I really like your videos, and I consider them by far, the best piano reviews available online.
Hi Stu, love your videos, extremely insightful! I have a brand new C2X and have had it in my house for just over 6 weeks. I just had it tuned for the first time and although it improved the tonal quality greatly than before tuning, it still doesn't sound quite "right". I'm convinced it's still not quite in tune. The mid range area of mine really stands out especially if I record it, certain notes around middle C almost sound like a Wurlitzer! I don't know if you know exactly what I'm getting at, it's not as bad as a Honky Tonk but it's still annoying as hell! Is this common for a first tuning ie; new strings still stretching like a guitar? By the way, the temperature is around 21-22 and humidity is around 45-50% with very little fluctuation. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Perfectly normal for a new piano. It's a wonderful, wonderful piano. Keep working with the tech and it'll become more balanced in time. I personally love the CX series and find it to be a significant improvement over the C, in terms of tone color and expressivity.
@@benjaminsmith2287 Thanks for the information Benjamin, gives me great peace of mind knowing there's nothing wrong with it.
@@noremac4807 Kawais shouldn't be tinny. They could be voiced bright but should have a full-bodied tone and a fairly dark bass to tenor. I think both the CX series and GX series are magnificent. And yes, Yamahas can definitely be "warm" and aren't always "bright." But voicing matters and also the acoustics in a room matters. These affect the impressions in comparisons. I think if you could put the pianos in the same room and close to the same placement in the room that's the truest comparison. But still, theres' the issue of voicing, tuning and even if they are voiced and tuned, what preferences a tech or potential owner has for their pianos.
Are you sure there are springs in the dampers? I think they respond exclusively to gravity. There may be a spring on the pedal rod. The dampers may be heavier overall in the Yamaha. Right out of the box, the longer bass string is in all likelihood preferable. Two lovely pianos, my pick is the Kawai. No one is playing with wooden tennis rackets any more. A piano with a softer tone is easier to control than a bright piano. The room is an important aspect of the sound.
I don't know, you can play very quietly on the Yamaha CX pianos. I would say the Yamaha's bright quality isn't the standout quality it once was. Kawai's are certainly darker but Yamaha also has a darkness with the brightness combo that they've achieved with the CX vs. the C. I do agree that the attack is softer on Kawais in general, so that makes the Kawai have a more mellow personality and the Yamaha an edgier personality. But I've found the CX pianos to be more impressive played lyrically than percussively. Percussively, they have what you expect from Yamaha. Lyrically, then they distinguish themselves from previous Cs because they have an almost Bosendorfer like "tinge" to their tone. With Kawai, it's more an expansion with a bit more color than the RX.
Totally agree about the room being an important aspect of the sound.
The Shirgeru Kwai piano blows them all away in this video.
The Shigeru Kawai is competing in a different league compared to these pianos. You’re looking at Japanese mid grade instruments here (Yamaha CX and Kawai GX) vs top performance grade which is what the Shigeru is.
I'm not in the market for a piano, having just bought one (from your Oakville location) , but I find your reviews fascinating and informative so I continue to watch them. It gives me an insight into how an expert evaluates a piano in terms of precise physical and sonic characteristics. I do have a bit of a question though : you frequently use the term "bloom" in reference to the tone and/or attack of the piano ... could you possibly describe the sound that you are referring to ? Perhaps in the next acoustic piano review that you do so you can match the verbal description with what to listen for in the sound ? just not sure what "bloom" is ....
gabithemagyar Likely refers to how the sound evolves and branches out from the fundamental note.
You should look at a piano tone on an oscilloscope. The initial attack is a very disrupted wave form that settles into a more smooth rounded tone. I'm sure the sound board plays into it. The string is going to be excited before the sound board begins to vibrate through the bridge. On a violin, it's called "throw" which is an assessment of how well the tone of the instrument projects in a concert hall. The room itself is part of the voice of a musical instrument. Hard floors or carpet, high or low ceiling all make a difference, along with many other factors. I like Pianoteq Pro because it gives me a lot of personal control over the sound that is a lot harder if not impossible to adjust in an acoustic piano. It looks to me that there is in fact development of the sound in the higher end acoustic market as they now have to actually compete against Pianoteq, and can't be producing acoustic grands that sound worse than professional digitalis which the manufactures themselves are creating and marketing, some in conjunction with Pianoteq. Pianoteq by the way is not a "sampled" piano, but a mathematically modeled piano tone, It has a much smaller digital foot print, and boots much more quickly.. However some sampled pianos sound lovely.
th-cam.com/video/TwmC5XfAoYo/w-d-xo.html
It's quite pronounced on some Yamaha "X" pianos. Basically any of them, like the CX, SX or current CF models (2010 and after). You don't hear it so much with Stu's playing because he's playing in a jazz articulating style. Where you do here it with others. For instance, listen to YAMAHA C6X DEMO - with composer Sally Greenaway. The bloom is quite pronounced. I actually don't hear it as much with Kawai but that's not to say the Kawai's GX, Shigerus are lacking it. It's just a thicker bodied tone.
@@benjaminsmith2287 Thanks. I listened to the Greenaway demo. If I understand correctly "bloom" then refers to the swelling of the tone/note after the initial strike of the hammer to the string and the play of the harmonics during its subsequent decay ?
@@gabithemagyar That's how I understand it, yes.
There's a few things that bug me as a VST user. Among them is why don't we find more Kawai VST plugin ? It seems close to zero and the most known one seems a technical relic. These piano should get more recognition from VST producers, no ? Concerning the sound, I can only refer to my VST but I really prefer the sound of Yamaha over any other piano VST I've got (Bosendorfer, Bechstein, Steinway B/D) except the Fazioli. When I "play" my Yamaha or Fazioli plugin and then switch to an other brand of piano I suddenly feel that the sound is "nebulous". So instead of bright, I would rather qualify the Yamaha/Fazioli sound as detailed or crystalline.
It is interesting that there are not more Kawai VST piano plugins. Perhaps, one reason for that is the quality of the Kawai sample sets that are onboard their digital pianos these days. The fidelity and detail they present are quite remarkable. In any case, I imagine that it is merely a matter of time before we start seeing more of them on the VST market. :)
Hi Stu. I first saw your video on the Kawai GX2 4 years ago which I bought four years ago. Play it everyday for hours. How do you know when it needs voicing?
I am an older lady and read it’s wise to protect my ears, it is sounding loud to me. (I have lid closed, rug underneath and curtains etc) Could just be my ears😄
Thanks for your videos!
The room acoustic has a lot to do with making the piano sounds loud to one's ears. My piano sounded fine in previous home, but too loud for me in the "piano room" of the current home. If you can move the piano into a bigger or the biggest room of the house, it may help. Otherwise, adding acoustic panels in the current room to absorb the sound reflections may help. With the Kawai being a warm piano, you may want acoustic panels about 6" deep to make sure the lower end of the spectrum also absorbed. Rugs and curtains do very little to absorb sounds.
Yamaha is 10/10 esp for us who do recording
The 3 inch (7 cm) length difference between the Yamaha C2X and the Kawai GX2 is the same size difference as between the Kawai GX2 and the GX3. The Kawai GX2 is a larger piano than the C2X so one would expect a richer, fuller tone from the longer bass strings, larger soundboard, and then there's the thicker rim and stretcher bar, and the laminated bridge. There's just more piano in the GX2.
lol
I agree. The reviews on this channel are well articulated and thoughtful. Yet sometimes the reviews are not using the manufacturer's equivalent models. It can make for a misinformed or misunderstood difference. The length and area of the soundboard, and strings for that matter, are critical elements of sound and tone. Those few inches can have a profound influence on everything.
2:24 I think of Yamaha more like "Bright and confident"... Kawai as "Sweet", Steinway D as "Bright and Bright"
Every piano has its own unique character! Each is as different and unique as the person playing them. :)
4:27 oh my .... everything he does onward is so nice, even the chick back there stops for a while .. I wonder what music he's playing.
11:39 lol
both amazing piano ...the only problem with these is that I cant afford ..
They are both unquestionably excellent instruments! Hopefully, you will be able to afford one of these beautiful grands in the near future. :)
at what time approximately did yamaha introduce changes into hammer/felt design?
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Given that we are not a dealer for the Yamaha piano line, I am not entirely sure as to the date/time frame that Yamaha introduced changes into the hammer/felt design. With that said, it is usually when a line is updated or the next generation is released that the most substantial design changes are introduced.
@@MerriamPianos would you say g2 to c2 or rather c2 to c2x? thanx!
@@klanghafen Yes. The thing is the CX brought in changes to the Yamaha based on the CFX. German felts, German strings, and some other changes Yamaha doesn't really publicize. The changes to the CX to me seem the most noticeable than G to C but C's start to mellow out as they get closer to the CX. The next step with the CX is the "Espressivo" but so far that's only on the C3X.
It sucks that Yamaha doesn't use tapered soundboards in the CX series but is offered in their more expensive pianos like the CF. I'm sure the taper in Kawai's GX is machine cut to spec while the more expensive Shigeru SK are hand tapered by a top craftsman.
You should try to do a C3X vs GX3 comparison because those two pianos and closer in size and Yamaha tends to lag in making improvements to their smaller C1X and C2X. For example, Yamaha introduced a new soundboard design where they uses curved ribs to form the crown similar to Bosendorfer and while the C3X, C5X, C6X, and C7X got the upgrade, the C1X and C2X are stuck with Yamaha's older design of using straight ribs and drying the ribs and soundboard to different humidity's to form the crown.
@Konstantin Ridaya Fuerichs are very nice but I think in NA we get the Hailuns. I'm not sure how available Fuerichs are in North America. Paul sounds terrific on his Fuerich and his piano sounds wonderful. As far as the C7X being nasal, I somehow find that a very attractive quality. There's one in a club in NYC, Birdland, and I heard a pianist, Bill Charlap, play it unmiked and solo. It was so delicate at low volumes and dolce that he pretty much didn't take it over mf, occasionally going to forte. To me, that showed the real colors it is capable of. I've heard others play the same piano in a different way at the club and it takes on another character, more punchy but minus the sweetness. Stu does a great job describing the pianos but I think the CX is capable of a lot of lyricism and a sweetness when played a low to medium volumes, a sweetness that has a different character to Kawai's sweetness. Like honeydew vs. watermelon perhaps?
I think Yamaha does use tapered soundboards from the info I can get. The CX is a well-engineered piano series but Yamaha is very vague about exactly what's in them. And, tapered by itself, you can find in fairly inexpensive Pearl River pianos. It's the refinement of the tapering and the rim and how that all goes together synergistically that makes for the greatness of a GX Blak piano series or whatever Yamaha is doing in the CX series. Stu gives great info though Stu is helped by Kawai who provides that info for dealers, techs and piano geeks.
It appears that your stores sell new Kawai and not new Yamaha. That seems topical when offering a comparison.
It's dishonest at best! But that's the way these things goes nowadays. Impartial reviews are almost impossible to come by. Almost everyone posting "reviews" do so because there's an economic incentive to do so.
How would Hailun/Zimmerman compare to Japanese pianos?
Hailun are quite nice but obviously everything is built to a price point. I owned a Feurich also made in Ningbo where Hailuns are made. Supposedly really good quality but also built to a price point. Mine had moving cabinet panels, poor stringing (bad coils and nicked strings by the cutter), glue visible on leg joints etc. Usually have really good parts but if its constructed poorly there isn't any point. I would also say the pianos depend on dealer preparation.
@@4dventur35 Dealer prep is big part of Steinway, Also regular tuning and maintenance. An acoustic piano is a living creature of sorts.
@@JoeLinux2000 _
Yes of course any steinway or fazioli without dealer prep could sound awful
@@4dventur35 Fazioli come out of the factories extremely well prepped. It's just they are shipped to their destination and that's where they may need some prepping.
@@benjaminsmith2287 yep
For me, the Yamaha wins sonically by a country mile!
Let’s be real, if you play jazz pop and church then pick up the Yamaha, for classical, practicing, building techniques and low maintenance then go for Kawai .As for Recording, 100 percent Yamaha, we do not use Kawai in the studio in the music industry, we use Yamaha or Steinway.
Question about the studio part:
Do you know why?
I'm on board with your point on jazz vs. classical, but also notice that almost always Yamahas or Steinways are used on stage or in recordings even in classical.
Is it just for marketing and "general" acceptance?
I don't really see why the brightness of Yamaha should be good in classical settings
Interesting.
Part of it is marketing for sure - Yamaha was pitched for a long time as the only low-cost alternative to Steinway in the concert range that delivered a similar quality build. And for many decades, the facts supported that reality, and Yamaha spent 10's of millions building the brand through endorsements, free placements etc. The RX Kawai line was the first grand line that really meaningfully competed against the C series in the main-stream, and the Shigeru Kawai EX was the first one that most observers legit thought beat out the Yamaha CF series. This is all in the last 15 years or so, and Yamaha's been at it for 50 - these market reputations take many years to sway and often trail realities sometimes by decades. Hyundai vs Toyota is an excellent example...most people now think of them as being equal in quality and value (maybe Hyundai in some categories even more so), but they spent 20+ years being the "cheap Korean car" that got automatically dismissed next to the Toyota offering well after actual reality had changed. The 2020 lay of the land, as I personally see it, is that I consider the Shigeru Kawai's the best Japanese piano built today, I think the CFX as being wonderful to play (though not quite as colourful or dynamic as the Shigeru); I think of the Yamaha SX, CX, and Kawai GX as equally excellent in terms of quality control and engineering (though you may have a musical preference), and the K series uprights are out-right playing circles around the standard-version U series.
@@MerriamPianos The SX is considerably nicer than the CX. There's a site that does great recordings, Skelp Pasja TV, a Polish site I think, of the CX series and the SX pianos, and they've also recorded a Kawai GX6 (a really lovely sounding piano with a strong bass). It's very apparent listening to those recordings the SX piano has a more refined tone, more depth, more sustain, a more sparkly treble with more presence, it's just a better piano than the CX. There is no Kawai competitor for the SX. The SX is below the Shigeru/CFs but above the GX/CX. It's mostly hand built but uses scaling of the CX and their plates.
As far as concert grands go, after listening to a bunch of Steinways, Yamahas, Bechsteins, old Baldwins, Mason and Hamlins live, I think it boils down to the piano (and technician, of course). I've heard sublime Steinways and mere excellent ones (B and Ds) and some disappointing ones. Sublime CFXs, mere excellent ones, and some just OK ones. Same with Baldwins and Masons. The one Shigeru SK6 I've heard was just lovely. Some pianos just have a magic to them. That actually happens in the conservatory models too. Some RX's just sound more special than others, and that's the case with Yamaha's C's too. That's the wonderful things about pianos, if you have a special one, hang onto it.
Yamaha and Steinway have been investing for decades in marketing, brand placement and artist endorsement more than any other piano builder. As a result, Yamaha and Steinway are currently the dominant brands in classical and pop studio recordings and stages. So, assuming Yamaha or Steinway are somehow superior to other makers, specially to traditional makers, is plain wrong. Just look at what Bösendorfer, a traditional Austrian maker of handcrafted pianos. Bösendorfer, a favourite of many great pianists in the past was mostly wiped out of view by Yamaha and Steinway. But since Yamaha acquired the Austrian brand in 2008, these pianos are now again "allowed" to re-appear in recordings and stages...
Kawai absolutely
Kawai all day, it’s not even close.
The GX2 is a very special piano - that is for sure! :)
wow the yamaha piano sounds like a bosendorfer
In the treble, not so much the bass.
Please provide the serial numbers and age of each piano.
Not going to provide serials for a variety of reasons (least of which the last time I did this, it created such a preference for a specific serial number that a customer refused to buy anything but), but the Date of Manufacture is 2016 on C2X and 2019 on GX2.
@@MerriamPianos Which is comparable. I don't think Yamaha has done anything that significant since 2016 to the CX line and if anything, the Yamaha is played in and the Kawai still has a bit of way to ripen to get to its optimum tone. The Yamaha, perhaps, could use a bit of softening of the mid and upper treble but that's more my voicing preferences than whoever owns the piano may want.
@@benjaminsmith2287 Hi Benjamin, thanks for the comment!
these are "only" like US$50,000
They are in a mid-range price category for grand pianos, but the quality and manufacturing precision of these instruments is impressive to say the least!
If two pianos are at same price, I would definately select YAMAHA C2X. It is a way better than GX2 in every way
These are two very different pianos both sonically and in terms of touch. The preference will always come down to the subjectivity of the specific player. In either case, the important thing is to find an instrument you connect with. :)
Trying to be objective. It’s not going to happen.
Should’ve rehearsed before trying to explain. Plus, that new agey progressive jazz is so typical in a piano store. Play music from different genres. A Beautiful Tight and Bright Clarity within the center. The Lower Notes have been redesigned for better control, creating a much better and noticeable tone with much more accuracy as well as the depth dark side, in a good way. The upper notes are still spectacular. He won’t explain the g2x soundboards etc in layman’s terms. But he’ll explain the how it has a warm feel.
There’s a difference in touch (feel/response) and the best is Steinway.
I feel sorry for him. Why doesn’t the owner do this.
How much is the 2nd grand piano worth and having the recording devices installed as well as the best music MIDI equipment and software? Plus having that installed for easier access and having it delivered?
$17,000.00 ?
I think another zero or two.
Hi there! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks for tuning in and taking the time to share your feedback. We sincerely appreciate it. Stu (the presenter) is in fact the president of the company. We always do our best to be as objective as possible, but, of course, any musician with a beating heart will have their musical preferences between two instruments. With that said, as Stu always acknowledges, it is up to a player decide what the best tone/touch is for them. That is why it is always important to audition the instruments one is exploring in person whenever possible. I will be sure to pass on the feedback regarding showcasing other genres of music to Stu and our production team. Thanks again for writing in and happy playing! :)
@@MerriamPianos awesome. Good people there.
It’s a difficult job. My uncle sold Wurlitzer pianos many many years ago. He had to have multiple jobs.
I very much like my Kawai GX2, which I have had for 4 years. I chose it because I found the tone more interesting and better for classical and romantic music than the Yamahas I tried, which I found very clear and consistent in tone, but a bit plain and ‘vanilla’. I have recordings of my Kawai GX2 on my channel. The only problem I’ve found with it has been that I found the Millennium III action does not respond well to the very damp English climate. At high humidities I found it got a sluggish, and I had to put a lot of work into reducing the humidity in the action to around 50%, which solved it. In any case, it’s not the piano for you if you like a light, easy action. It’s better for the stronger player.
Spot on. It's very strange and ironic that for all the talk about stability in using carbon composite material, they actually end up with a less stable piano in this respect.
I very much like my Kawai GX2, which I have had for 4 years. I chose it because I found the tone more interesting and better for classical and romantic music than the Yamahas I tried, which I found very clear and consistent in tone, but a bit plain and ‘vanilla’. I have recordings of my Kawai GX2 on my channel. The only problem I’ve found with it has been that I found the Millennium III action does not respond well to the very damp English climate. At high humidities I found it got sluggish, and I had to put a lot of work into reducing the humidity in the action to around 50%, which solved it. In any case, it’s not the piano for you if you like a light, easy action. It’s better for the stronger player.
I think I agree with your ideas about Yamaha ... i like it when it sparkles but I just find it a bit bright for my taste especially as a classical player.
Interesting. I played a gx3 and found its action too heavy and sluggish. It was in a very wet area of uk.
I could have bought it saving £10k but resisted. Only a few years old and immaculate and sounded great.
I very much like my Kawai GX2, which I have had for 4 years. I chose it because I found the tone more interesting and better for classical and romantic music than the Yamahas I tried, which I found very clear and consistent in tone, but a bit plain and ‘vanilla’. I have recordings of my Kawai GX2 on my channel. The only problem I’ve found with it has been that I found the Millennium III action does not respond well to the very damp English climate. At high humidities I found it got a sluggish, and I had to put a lot of work into reducing the humidity in the action to around 50%, which solved it. In any case, it’s not the piano for you if you like a light, easy action. It’s better for the stronger player.
I had my brand new kawai k500 after 3 years the millennium3 action not respond, that is huge problem to me other than sound. I upgrade C3X no regret.
I have to agree @@fredericqiu that Yamaha have the best actions in the business.