🎹Shigeru Kawai SK-3 vs Estonia L190 Grand Piano Review & Comparison - High-End Acoustic Pianos🎹
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Welcome to Merriam Pianos on TH-cam! In today’s video, we’ll be comparing two high-end grand pianos built by what is often thought of as the two absolute best value performance grand piano manufacturer’s today.
The pianos we’re referring to are a 6’2” Estonia L190 and a 6’2” Shigeru Kawai SK3 - both champions of the high-value, handcrafted 6 foot grand piano class.
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Background
When you look at the piano industry as a whole, it can be argued that the category that falls directly between the top factory made pianos and the undisputed best of the best elite pianos at the top, is actually the most interesting single category in the entire industry.
These handcrafted, performance grade grand pianos generally sit within a price range of about $40,000-$90,000 depending on size, and some are often regarded as the highest value hand-craft pianos available.
Estonia and Shigeru both fall into this category, and are actually quite underpriced in the context of the market as a whole given what they deliver musically. Modern innovation and technology has allowed both companies to advance their pianos very quickly in recent years, to the point that their reputations have not caught up with these highly evolved pianos. The result is a set of grand pianos that actually compare very closely to more established instruments that cost sometimes twice as much.
Piano Sound
Despite similar price points, the L190 and SK3 actually sound very different. The SK3 has an incredibly colourful sound with a massive amount of partials making up the tone, but without sacrificing warmth and brassiness in the lower register. The treble is super dynamic, and clean at the same time.
The L190 has a stronger fundamental tone, with a very pronounced initial bloom. The fundamental also persists far longer than most pianos as the sustain rings out.
Estonia updated their soundboard (interestingly untapered) and rib design quite radically several years ago, and this is a big reason why the sound blooms in the way it does. The new design requires a bit more energy for the whole instrument to get resonating, but once that energy is input, you’re left with a highly resonant structure.
The SK3 uses a traditionally tapered soundboard of high grade Alaskan white spruce - essentially the same as what you’d find in a NY Steinway. The result is a more colourful instrument that’s easier to get resonating, but lacks a bit of character in lower dynamic ranges as compared to the L190.
Overall, these two pianos are both delivering a wonderful sonic experience that, while very different, are equally musical.
Action
These two actions definitely have a different sense of weight and speed from one another. The L190 requires a little more umph to execute fast passages, perhaps as a result of a heavier hammer. The black keys are made with genuine ebony, and there’s a nice texture on the white keys.
The SK3 uses Kawai’s Neotex (synthetic ivory) texture on the white keys, and a synthetic ebony for the black keys.
In terms of the SK3’s actio, it’s of course using Kawai’s ground breaking Millennium III Carbon Fiber action. We’ve said much about this action on the channel, but to sum it up, from both a playing and maintenance standpoint, this action is very tough to beat - simply superb.
The L190’s action feels a bit more traditional comparatively, but it’s still very well executed and nice to play.
Summary
Both pianos are available in different finishes, but the SK3 is really only available in different finishes when Kawai released a special edition.
Both lines have several more sizes to choose from, from under 6 feet, to full 9 foot concert grands.
If you have a chance to compare these for yourself in person, you owe it to yourself to do so. Both instruments are simply beautiful, but really deliver different musical experiences.
It’s not fair to say one is better than the other. What is fair to say though is that we can say the reputation for high-level value each of these instruments has is very well deserved.
Thank you for watching!
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Stu alone is a reason why no other channel could ever reproduce this blend of passion and information in a review. Great work, I love your Videos!
I wouldn't know about "no other" but he certainly sets the bar high.
That purity of sound on the Estonia. It is is sublime.
For sure! Very expressive sound!
Stu is a good pianist, I love when he plays the Estonia though, something very pure.
I just played the SK 3 today - among Steinways and Steingraebers of double the price - I left the shop completely inspired, by the Kawai, what a great instrument, Stu is absolutely right.
You can't go wrong with any of these two magnificent pianos. Absolutely fantastic instruments.
We couldn't agree more! They're very different musical flavours of course, but both provide a musical experience of the very highest level. :)
@@MerriamPianos Just bought my second kawai CA_40N grand, amazing instrument, wonder if its as good as a Shigeru because there was no Shigeru back in 1994. Could Stu kindly offer us some insight on this?
I love when Stu is inspired by the piano he's playing :)
I enjoyed listening to both pianos, but that beautiful sustain on the Estonia has me very intrigued.
I would buy Estonia... Beautiful sound and probably will hold better during the time.
An old friend of mine, lifelong music teacher, has n SK-3 purchased a few years ago . When I tried it the first thing I noticed, having been playing digital instruments for some time, was how loud a real piano is. The next thing was exactly what you described in your video - the extraordinary harmonic richness of the Kawai. People often praise the warmth of the Kawai sound: I didn't think the SK-3 I played was over-warm. The sound was clean and beautifully balanced across the keyboard. An absolutely gorgeous piano.
I am very happy to hear that you had a chance to experience the beauty of the SK3 in person! I definitely agree with your synopsis. There is a wonderful balance across the whole register in the Shigeru Kawai grands that make them so rewarding to play! :)
The Kawai has a larger tone in the bass but slightly uneven in the blend. The Estonia bass seems smaller and more blended. The Estonia upper register is absolutely magical and I can hear different qualities of tone. The Kawai does not have as much variety of tonal colors. I pick the Estonia.
You notice Stu is more melodic eg linear improvisation is encouraged by the Shiguru. Anyway; The definition of richness is the abundance of ancillary harmonics accompanying the fundimental like Fazioli, Steinway, C Bechstein, Mason & Hamilin. For some reason Mr Harrison seems less encouraged to employ alot of chromatically altered sounds on the Estonia.
What else would anyone want from life other than a piano of such quality. The ability to play and a place to play. Perfection.
I certainly agree with that notion! There is nothing more rewarding than playing a beautiful piano in a beautiful sounding room. :)
I like a thing that has its own voice. And that's why I like the Shigeru and I like Yamahas and such. The Estonia is a fine-sounding piano with a variation of the European sound and it is fabulous. But the Shigeru has its own sparkle, its own depth, it's own sense of a round tone and that's a certain personality that is just worth so much. It's as fine as anything out there, in my opinion, and it's not about how much it cost or about its size. It's about its signature tone and feel which makes it its own vibe. For that reason, it stands out a bit more to me than does the very elegant Estonia.
@Konstantin Ridaya I didn't say the Estonia was "ordinary." I said it had a variation of the European sound. I also said it was fabulous and elegant.
Well said! It was something about what he played and how the kawai produced the sound. In the easiest terms to put it “it was so satisfying”
I think I slightly prefer the Kawai, but the Estonia is also a magical experience.
Stu, I think you should play the same music on both pianos. That way the viewers can evaluate the pianos for themselves.
0:00 Intro
1:03 Estonia
1:40 Shigeru
2:37 Description
6:20 Estonia
9:22 Shigeru
12:05 Impressions
13:21 Shigeru
15:35 Estonia
16:53 Shigeru
17:29 Estonia
18:47 Shigeru
20:07 Differences
24:19 Estonia
25:24 Shigeru
27:34 Estonia
28:30 Shigeru
29:18 Action
30:44 Shigeru
31:41 Estonia
32:17 Final words
33:26 Don't forget to like comment and share
Lovely :)
Maybe experiment once with longer material, give each instrument 30 minutes of playing, describe them through music that fits them best.
Stu please make available a "podcast" version in FLAC format :)
Your wish for a podcast came true :) Not sure if it's in Flac since I only heard the news & didn't get a chance to check it out yet
It's so important to test out as many pianos as possible because you might lose out on an instrument you truly adore and either spend more money or save some. I stared wanting a Steinway and was ready to buy one. But decided to go to tons of stores and play as many pianos as possible. I played everything in and out of my range, blind folded. Only my wife and friend knew the model of the pianos. I ended liking the Kawai GL40 best and by a large margin, even over the Shigeru or the Steinway. The GL40 is dark, melancholic, but clear sounding. I wish I could have tried the gl50 but no one had it. The GL40 is considered an entry level piano, but to me it was the best sounding piano. My experiment saved me 10s of thousands of dollars and got me an instrument I really like.
I certainly agree! Our ears don't lie. It is easy to get wrapped up in price points, specs and rating, but, at the end of the day, the most important thing to satisfy is our ears and hearts. Playing piano is a very emotional experience, so finding an instrument you truly connect with is paramount. Congrats on your GL40! They're wonderfully instruments and I know it will serve you well for many years to come! :)
I think acoustic pianos are similar to acoustic guitars, in that sometimes a lower priced instrument could surprise you and sound even better than some of the higher price instruments depending on your taste and what kind of sound you like.
The only thing a higher price brings you in my opinion is much greater consistency and quality control. Which usually results in a better sound... But not always.
I've heard people say they've played NY Steinway that were not great, just okay. So yeah definitely always play before you buy. Even if you have to drive 2 hours.
Very good review, thank you
This review is so good I enjoy watch it and hit like twice.
Playing the exact same snippets and having them perfectly tuned should make the comparison better. I've played a Shigeru and thought it was at par with a Steinway of the same size.
Fantastic job for realy enjoying and underdtanding the differences, bravo and thank you
Estonia for me!
Stu, thank you so so so much! I learned a lot from your videos. And, you are the best reviewer and a great pianist! I am really impressed by you! Thank you!
You make such great videos Stu, so informative and passionate, we are very lucky. Wish I lived in the US to check out the store.
I enjoy learning about pianos. In the last year, I bought one of the older Baldwin L grand pianos
I am a blind viewer and it is impossible for me to know when you are switching pianos when you play back to back as you did in this video. Is it possible for you to say when you start playing the next instrument the name of the instrument please? This would help me greatly in understanding which instrument I am listening to thank you and I am truly enjoying your reviews. The issue of knowing which instrument you’re playing it’s most difficult in when you switch without stating so.
Agreed🎹🎶
I think this was brought up before, and it should be done. Stu could say something like, "Moving over to the the Kawai now." "Now let's hear how the Estonia sounds" and so on. It could be natural conversation, not stiff or forced.
@@JoeLinux2000 it was. In the Kawai VS Boston video🎹🎶
"blind viewer"
Reinhard: In case nobody has said it yet, the video starts with an intro on the Kawai SK3. Soon after we hear the Estonia, and then the SK3 more fully than before. I suppose it continues like this alternating, but, I'm in the middle of rewatching the video, and I don't remember the whole video. I hope your system will enable you to hear what I'm writing. Happy listening!
Ah, according to Ed Pin. It does alternate for two cycles, but then after some chat there is a swap around, Shigeru, Estonia, Sigeru, Estonia, Shigeru. I hope you can hear Ed's list, or my summary.
Great video, and i love the different pieces of music you play, is it possible to have more information about that? thanks :)
The best videos I've ever seen, my two favorite pianos side to side, played by a wonderful pianist and person.
Thank you so much for your incredibly kind words! These are two truly amazing instruments! Any pianist would have a very difficult time choosing one given their incredible musical and expressive potential. :)
Planning to buy an Estonia 168 that I'd keep a few decades ;-). I'm still a beginner but being Belgian I'd like an European piano, and the Estonia seems great. Gotta test it though.
In Belgium too (Liege) and owning a beautifull L190 :) but maybe I will not be able to keep it in long term because I'm in appartement and the piano is in m y music class. Not sure about this, I'll probably keep it. But if you want we can speak about that you can find me on Facebook :)
@@gregorylacomble7091 Ah un Liégeois! Finalement quand j'ai demandé justement à l'Artisan du Piano un renseignement, ils ont augmenté le prix de 26.000€ à 33.000€ (un jour après!). Du coup, tant pis, je suis allé chez Pianos Sibret sur Namur, j'ai testé et choisi un Schimmel C121 (noir mat), qui doit arriver en avril. Plus raisonnable également (14.000€), et j'ai adoré le toucher et la sonorité...
Both are great pianos- could go with either one!
Thank you for making your videos! I enjoy playing piano, but am also fascinated by the "why" one piano sounds differently than another piano.
Stu, from over here in Aus we have greatly appreciated your insightful videos (and charming improvising) - the best resource online for helping my wife decide on a new grand / upright / hybrid. Pity you don't do mail order to Queensland... Many thanks.
Thank you. I enjoyed your playing as well as the technical talk insights.
You're very welcome! Glad you enjoyed it! :)
Have listened to this review at least 20 times and really appreciate your insights as to the different qualities these amazing instruments have.
We are very happy to hear that you enjoyed the video and Stu's deep dive into these two wonderful grand pianos! :)
I wonder if Stu would record his playing because it is just absolutely beautiful!!!
So interesting Stu. I have loved the Shigeru Kawai for a while but I am pleasantly surprised by the Estonia which I always felt was a lower quality piano. But here the Estonia really has a full rich sound and the ring time for me is amazingly good. When you have this almost endless ring time you know you have a piano of real quality. If I had to pick, I would be hard pressed to make a decision, better bass on the Shigeru but more generous ring time on the Estonia. So the jury is still out on this for me! Thanks for such an interesting and informative video Stu!
Really nice video! As you mentioned, I am one of those who only watch this for entertainment and education about pianos without any chance of buying a piano. In this regard you really nailed it. This content also motivates me to keep practicing :)
I have a down-market Kawai, the GL-40. I am a student, 6 years in, and am very pleased with it. A higher end piano would be nice, but my skill level doesn't justify it.
Incrível, que alegria em encontrar seu canal, obrigado por tanto. Márcio do Brasil.
You're very welcome! Thank you for taking the time to check it out! We appreciate it. :)
I just want to say how impressed I am with your playing. Beautiful! Because of you I purchased the Kawai CA 90.
The CA 90 is a good choice.
@@JoeLinux2000 Hey Joe did I understood correctly, you bought a kawai CA 90 grand? I own a CA 40N, yours must be concert size though! how are you liking it?
Stu, I truly enjoy watching the Merriam Piano videos from the showcases to the comparisons! Your musical intelligence is evident as well as your passion for all things piano (which I share). Regarding this particular comparison, I tend to also feel that the Estonia offers a better singing tone and captures the better frequency/tonal colour evenly throughout the range. I'm no expert in judging pianos but recently traded up from a Yamaha grand to a Brodmann PE-187 grand for the simple reason that I could "greatly" appreciate the quality in every aspect that the new instrument had to offer.
Hi there! I will be sure to pass on your kind words and compliments to Stu on your behalf! The Estonia grands are certainly one of the closest things you will find to a singing voice in a piano; beautiful, intimate, and expressive. Congratulations on your PE187! I hope the instrument serves you well for many years to come! :)
You are so right!! Connecting with the instrument by using your ear and and touch control is SUPER COOL!!!
This is one of the most interesting videos!!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for tuning in!
If possible, do a Yamaha u1/Kawai K300 vs W Hoffmann V112. That'll be really cool. Keep up the good work!
Big fan of Kawai but I like the Estonia better because of how it prolongs its fundamental tone that long and its upper register is kind of richer than the bell like sounds of the upper register of Kawai.
Great video. I think all else being equal I’d have to play both and winner would go to action preference. Lighter and faster action probably found on Shigeru would win me over, might have to be the winner but it’s also always possible to adjust to an action…both have beautiful sound, so it might go to price winner? Fwiw I’m at price point where I can afford new Estonia and used Shigeru…I was planning to try just used pianos of many brands, but Estonia new is now on my list. Hadn’t considered it before. What you said about new car used and getting what you pay for in the other video was also really nice info to have. I’ve seen Bosendorfer used for Estonia new price point so I think the ultimate test is then to sit down and play both. You can find some good deals on used out there. Thanks for the video!
Excellent video! I would like to know how much the harmonic coloration difference is affected by voicing decisions such as felt hardness. As you describe, the SK3 is more energetic above the fundamental whereas the L190 is more rounded to the fundamental, but can this be modified if you toughened the felt on the L190 and softened it on the SK3? Could they meet in the middle? The soundboard is the soundboard, of course, but to what extent can the tone be changed by voicing is a really interesting question. In any case, both pianos sound truly stellar. I'm more the L190 fan myself, though.
LOVE your reviews, Stu! How about a new review, similar to this one that deals with the 7 footers that concert pianists gravitate more towards - Say, the SK6 and the Estonia 210?
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thanks so much for tuning in! We're glad you enjoyed Stu's awesome reviews and comparisons. Thanks for the suggestion! We will do our best to tackle that comparison video for you once we have both an SK6 and L210 in stock. :)
Yup love to see other pianos and such. Don’t have the funds or the skills but love to be informed. Thanks Stu
Hello Stu. I have been searching for the ‘perfect grand piano at the perfect price’ for nearly two years now and I am currently awaiting delivery of my SK3 imminently. Your videos are exceptional and can carry one away for hours of piano fun and ‘geeking’. Thank you for guiding me and giving such honest feedback in all your videos.
I have one burning question though. I know you use an AKG 414 to record the grand pianos but where exactly do you place it?
Keep the videos coming - you’re an inspiration and an incredible pianist!
How are you liking your SK3? I took delivery of one but the movers damaged the lid so I sent it back and now in its place is an SK6. I love the response the Millennium III action allows. It’s an amazing piano.
For whatever it's worth, I just sold my upper-end Asian piano yesterday. I'm glad to be done with it. I'd spent thousands of dollars on the voicing having four or five of the best techs in my area work on it--paying them to travel a distance. They all thought I was crazy because it sounded amazing to them. Bothered me the second I got the piano, but after having the piano in my home awhile, I realized what the problem was. I always told them I heard too much attack and too many partials and that it was painful to listen to--in some ranges of the piano in particular. I was always telling them I wanted more fundamental and fewer overtones. Hammer voicing can only do so much, I learned.
I'm thinking I should think about Estonia as a possible next piano. The piano I sold was just too much intense sound to have coming at me all the time practicing in a moderate size living room with hardwood floors, average ceilings, and plaster walls. I believe I might like one piano if I was listening to it at the back of the hall (the Shigeru), but if I'm sitting at the keyboard, I would want a less complicated, exhausting, piercing sound. Overall, I think I'd probably prefer the Estonia, but honestly, I would probably want to play six of each model of each maker and one might stand out as being preferable to the others. Estonia may have my preference figured out. Maybe more ping up top works while less piercing in the mid section. I don't know. Strange thing, this piano sound business. Probably both great pianos. One of each?
What piano did you have? Just curious.
There a lot of variables to this problem. Yamaha sounds very good in showroom, but after couple of years it tends to brighten a lot. On the other hand , hardwood floor , plaster walls are not helping. There could be a lot of bouncing echoes in the room , frequencies coming at each other. So, you should treat your room acoustically first. You can used area rugs, curtains, etc. Then you can try changing hammers to cold pressed vs hot pressed. That can change a lot in sound. I am surprised that your technicians didn’t offer you this. You could have couple sets of hammers for your piano as well. Change them in accordance to the style of your music .
If I had the money and space, I will take both! Thank you for a great break-down!!
I 100% agree with that sentiment! Why choose just one? ;)
Thanks so much for tuning in!
Both are wonderful. But I definitely prefer the Estonia.
I agree that they are both exceptional instruments! The SK3 is quite the powerhouse, while the L190 has a wonderful intimacy to the tone. :)
Your videos are great. One suggestion would be to add some visual editing, I am sure that would significantly increase visits and monetization
Another great review. Owing to Stu’s earlier review of Shigerus and delving into months of research looking at Yamaha SX/CF, Estonia, Steinway O and A, C Bechstein Academy, Hoffman, Bosendorfer, Bluthner, Sauter, Fazioli, I went for the SK3L. Of course some of those pianos are in a completely different price range but my objective was to play all the “top” pianos to hear and feel the differences. I admit to being partial to the Hamburg Steinway tone. My conclusion was that the Shigeru is absolutely awesome and totally satisfying despite not being priced in the region of the finest pianos. It is a struggle to pull myself away from it everyday even after 4-5 hours. The big standout for me is the fact that it’s rounded warm tone, sustain and resonance is great for almost all repertoire (classical) and its action is so silky smooth and even. It was also so well prepped and regulated that after it settled and was tuned, it’s just a dream and pleasure to play. The tone is colourful but warm and “clean”(beautiful harmonics). No regrets whatsoever and I look forward to playing every day. Personally, with some of the top pianos, I found that they suited some repertoire much better than others even though they all had a beautiful standout character. The Shigeru for me is just so full of character and does whatever I ask of it. It’s like a wonderful dance partner.
Nice description. Japanese are known for detail. They like to do things right. If these pianos are still made in Japan with Japanese workers the quality will be very consistent. Japanese digitals still have a way to go. For one thing I don't think they are necessarily produced by Japanese, and they may have other short comings such as with the Yamaha DGX, the sustain pedal does not sustain the orchestral string voices. Albeit, when Pianoteq Pro is combined with the DGX internal piano voices the end result is extremely satisfying.
Example of Japanese hand work:
th-cam.com/video/-kqSl6Fynj4/w-d-xo.html
absolutely. i tried an sk7 the other day, i found such a partiality to it and i loved it, as much or maybe more than the steinways and faziolis ive tried. i ended up ordering an sk3, itll be arriving in a couple months
These videos are SO informative and engaging! Thank you so much Stu and your crew for producing these. I am in the market for an upgrade and would love to give Merriam my business but alas I am in Vancouver. Any Estonia dealers here? Can't seem to find one in my cursory Google search.
Hi! Brent from Merriam Music here! Thank you so much for the kind words and for taking the time to tune in and support our channel! We sincerely appreciate it. I am not sure if any of the dealers in the Vancouver area are carrying the Estonia line at this time. They are one of our favourite lines that we represent and present one of the very best cost-to-value ratios you will find when it comes to handmade concert-level instruments. If you are not able to find an Estonia piano locally, we do ship/deliver pianos all across the country. Thanks so much once again for tuning in and happy playing! :)
@@MerriamPianos thanks for your speedy reply! If I have an opportunity to be in Toronto I will definitely come in. Good to know it could be shipped here…
Hey Stu,
Would you say that the super high-end pianos such as the C Bechstein 192 or the VC185 are, in fact, better overall than these two and, if so, why/how?
Piano design is always a compromise between gains in one area at the expense of another so is the C Bechstein actually better or simply different and it depends on your needs and your personal subjective opinion?
You are so experienced and knowledgable so I’d be interested in hearing your view.
Thanks for featuring these two fine instruments which offer great value to the entry level piano buyer. If I may offer a suggestion:
Kindly choose one demonstration piece for both pianos, popular and recognizable to that audience, to allow fair and even comparisons between these and other models.
I would recommend placement of 2 omni mics in each piano: Left channel about 1.5 octave up from the longest string, about 18" above center of string; Right channel similarly situated about 2 octaves from high end.
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Thanks, Stu! What a wonderful video! To me the Estonia has the tonal quality reminiscent of that of the C Bechstein you introduced before. The sustain in the upper register is amazing, all the way to the very top end. Clear but not harsh (at least as played on my little laptop speaker). I personally love the tone you brought out on the Estonia (and the C Bechstein, of course). It seems that the tone is very different than that of a Fazioli. From what I heard online, Fazioli seems to have a much shorter sustain, especially on the fundamental tones. This however, is very different from my limited experience with playing it in a store in Vancouver a few years back. I wonder if you can comment on the Fazioli tone in comparison with the Estonia (and the C Bechstein, of course)... I am also interested to know if it is possible to voice down the Fazioli to make it sound more like Estonia / C Bechstein, or even Steinway, which has a deep, rounded tone. Most Faziolis I tried were way too bright and metalic for my personal taste, like supercharged / hardened-hammered Yamaha's. If you have experience with how you would prepare or select for Faziolis, I'd love to hear your experience and advice. I've heard that some dealers would specifically pick the mellow ones or ask Fazioli to make them mellow on order. Thank you for sharing your videos. I've always enjoyed your playing and comments, and I look forward to your comments! Thanks!
Hammer voicing is critical. It's easier to voice up than down in my opinion. You voice them down by needling them. There seems to be a lot of controversy on exacly what is the proper technique for voicing down. Some say never needle the strike point, claiming it ruins the hammers, but I've had reasonably good success if not over done. Just sanding the face with coarse sand paper can soften the tone. I think it's a lot easier to play musically with hammers that are not overly bright. You don't want a mushy tone, but I find a hard brittle tone to be very objectionable in most circumstances. But it depends on the range. As you move into the treble the hammers have to be increasing harder to get the short treble strings to sing. People are probably very tired of hearing about it, but honestly the Pianoteq Hamburg Steinway combined with the Yamaha DGX CFX voice is an extremely rich sounding instrument. You don't have the hassle of ever changing felt hammers which all grow more stiff over time, creating a harder less controllable tone. Grand pianos are lively but have to be properly maintained, and not many are willing to do that.
played estonia l274 which my friend bought 20 years untouched for 12000 $ fully restourd. love shigeru more and i played it as well.
As an organist, your parallel to registration is excellent.
Thank you kindly! :)
Are these improvisations? Some amazing runs and progressions... Shiver shiver
Yup! Stu is improvising for the musical demonstrations of many of these video reviews/comparisons. :)
Fascinating comparison. Hearing about the soundboard design on the L190 in particular was interesting. A thicker soundboard will of course have more mass, hence more sustain, but more likely to perhaps to dampen the harmonics. The top treble though had more harmonics, maybe because the hammer strike point is not as well setup, though this seems unlikely on such a higher end piano. Pianos are compromises in design though and it is hard to get everything just right. I would imagine the SK3 has lighter hammers hitting more quickly giving that faster attack and the L190 slower heavier ones that, because they maybe don't bounce of the strings so quickly also help dampen harmonics. Unfortunately there are no Estonia dealers in the UK but it would be great to try one. Thanks once again for a really informative video.
You're welcome! Thank you so much for tuning in and sharing your insights! It is certainly an interesting process comparing amazing instruments of the quality level. Every manufacturer's instruments are distinct and unique. They are all beautiful and captivating in their own way, so, at the end of the day, it comes down to the musical preferences of the player as to which one they truly resonate with emotionally. :)
Lordy! Jazz sounds GREAT on the Kawai!!!
:)
It sounds like the pianos are tuned differently. I would be really interested to see a video taking a pair of identical instruments with different tunings and doing this kind of side-by-side.
I'm such a SK fan but that Estonia has a magic sparkle to my ears; maybe it's the sustain. Wouldn't we like to have this dilemma of choice on our hands! lol
I totally agree! The SK3 and L190 are two of my favourite pianos. They are offer very different musical and emotional experiences, but both are beautiful in their own way. There is something tranquil and songlike about the L190 that gives it a really engaging and intimate sound. The SK3 on the other hand offers so much colour and power. Its tonal and dynamic potential is impressive to say the least. :)
@@MerriamPianos I wish you were in the UK. Because when I buy my next piano I need the benefit of your judgment 😊
Stu, you are a very awesome pianist. I like your sound on the Kawai as it comes through my tiny computer speakers. Does the Shigeru have an offset balance rail? The only one I ever saw which was many years ago did. I wonder if all Shigeru's do? Aren't the Shigeru's the very top of the Kawai line? I'm pretty sure Joe Onofrio in Denver sold the Estonia years ago. It was considered a bargain at the time.
Onofrio, a name synonymous with pianos in Denver for 116 years, [faded] into history effective Monday January 2015.
The store at 1332 S. Broadway will change its name to Classic Pianos as it becomes the Denver outlet of Portland, Ore.-based Classic.
Classic Pianos purchased the family-owned Onofrio business in 2012 but until now has continued to operate as Onofrio.
“We left the name. It made sense because it has been around for so many years,” said general manager Don West. “But now we’ve got big plans going forward as Classic Pianos.”
In coming weeks, Classic intends to refurbish part of the building into a recital hall capable of showcasing traditional acoustic pianos as well as new lines of digital and hybrid-technology pianos.
When the lease on a ground-floor mattress store expires in two years, a bigger and more elaborate recital hall will be built.
A so-called liquidation sale taking place at the store through Sunday is intended to raise money for the renovations, West said.
The national piano market has been on a downward slide for more than a century, with plunging sales and a sharp drop in the number of retailers.
But West said his Denver store has managed to reverse the downturn that accelerated with the economic recession and a movement toward electronic keyboards.
“It’s definitely a shrinking industry, no question about it,” he said. “But there is still a market for very high-end pianos. People who have the means are still buying.”
At the top end of Onofrio’s inventory is a $110,000 Bösendorfer and a Yamaha listed at $101,000. Another Yamaha, the 9-foot CFX concert grand, would be priced at about $180,000 but is reserved for use by top musicians visiting Denver. Spinets, uprights and smaller grands sell for considerably less.
Nationally, the average cost of a new grand piano last year was just over $16,000.
New technology is finding its way into piano showrooms, such as that found in the Yamaha Disklavier enabling it to be played like a traditional acoustic piano, play prerecorded music as a “player” piano and reproduce songs that the piano’s owner previously played. The Disklavier starts at a list price of $20,000.
Onofrio’s origins date to 1898, when Angelo Fillippo Onofrio, an Italian immigrant, opened his Denver piano store. Unaffordable to typical wage-earning citizens of the day, the pianos’ chief buyers were saloons, bordellos and the occasional miner who had hit a mother lode.
The business passed down to Onofrio’s son Joseph, then Joe Jr., then Joe III. In 1974, the family built a store at the current South Broadway location.
Joe Onofrio III declined to be interviewed for this article.
Stores dedicated to selling pianos are dwindling across the country as fewer people take up the instrument and those who do often opt for a less expensive electronic keyboard or a used piano.
Some blame computers, while others note the high cost of new pianos. But what’s clear is that a long-term decline in sales has accelerated.
The best year for new-piano sales in the U.S. was 1909, when more than 364,500 were sold. But after gently falling over the years, piano sales have plunged more recently to between 30,000 and 40,000 annually.
For myself, I'm totally enamored with the Yamaha DGX / Pianoteq Pro hybrid I'm playing now. Honestly it's hard to find any piano acoustic, or electronic that has a better tone. It's very satisfying to play.
Internet Privacy Advocate: Thanks for that. I skimmed through the text you copied, remembering that it was their blurb and not necessarily your exact opinion.
While most of it is very agreeable to read, the reasons for declines in sales are slightly simplified IMO. They skipped over the explosion of the electric guitar, the advent of televisions occupying prime space in family homes, the mobility of modern families, and digital pianos which have blown the cheaper uprights out of the water. These are much more than mere electronic keyboards. They are the new de facto piano for the average pianist, and they represent a huge hope for the renewed interest in piano music. I send my congratulations to anyone who can afford a high end upright or a grand piano, but like you, I'm still happy enough with a digital solution.
Imagining playing the piano myself at home it’s definitely the Estonia for me (being born and raised in Europe) loving the traditional beautiful sound immediately connecting with me and my inner voice.
Chosing an instrument for public concert performances guess I would prefer the “powerhouse” 😉
I totally understand where you're coming from! Sometimes, it comes down to different tools for different musical applications. :)
The Estonia tone is silk, the SK is satin. More shine on the SK, but more mature depth in the Estonia. ... all to my ear of course.
There is no better piano focussed TH-cam channel and better reviewer than Stu!
Stu, the Shigeru sounds like it starts and stops quicker especially during staccato passages.....every note is isolated from its predecessor and successor.
The Estonia notes ring one into the other without pedals or fingers pressure. It starts quickly but doesn't stop quickly.....so rhythmically the Shigeru seems
to have more range of control over the dynamics......up to the player to create the contrast between dry and wet.....in sound engineering we use those
descriptors when using reverb so in a way the Estonia stays wet and never really gets dry. The Shigeru can be dry as a bone or wet as needed by the player.
Thank you so much for your brilliant offerings to us and your jazz tendencies......I am a percussionist and violin player and a piano faker so I get how
skilled you are and what a blessing your short improvs are to us......
Thanks for tuning in and sharing your thoughts! Those are some very excellent insights in regard to the tone, attack, sustain, and decay profiles of these two incredible instruments. They both have a different flavour, but are wonderfully expressive instruments with a lot to offer even the most advanced and discerning players. :)
Other sound great. I just bought a used sk5 and love it. I teresting comment about the partials. I too practice in a roo. With wood floors etc. Now I am thinking about voicing....
Congratulations on your SK5! The Shigeru Kawai pianos are absolutely incredible instruments with one of the most colourful and expressive voices that you will find. Enjoy your new piano! :)
Wow! Very good playing! I bought an SK3 in 2018. My pick was the Shigeru for the carbon action precision and color in the top registers; smoothness between bottom and mid registers. I also think the Shigerus are definitely better than Steinways in the lower registers that can sound either thin (Yamaha) or clangy like a Baldwin/Steinway or other more aggressive sounding pianos. I feel like this sound is easier to get a nice easy pp as well. Only the C Bechstien pleased me as much. But ouch! Not worth the 40% more price tag even if I could buy it. I Iove the Shigeru! SK3PPM ❤
The Shigeru Kawai SK3 is a remarkable piano in every regard! I certainly agree with your sentiments regarding its ultra-precise carbon fibre action and rich, rewarding tonal profile. It is truly a piano that can compete with instrument in its size category. Thanks for tuning in and sharing! :)
My 1975 Kawai KG3 is still exceptional. Sometimes you get a gem for much less than most gems cost!
But yeah, ... I so want (need? I guess not since I'm still playing the Kawai and can't afford) a Schimmel K230.
The KG3 is a fantastic model and there are some excellent specimens out there. Best of luck in your quest for an incredible K230! :)
This is some of Stu’s best playing 🙌🏻
The way he played that kawai 😭 so beautiful
Both are stunning instruments. I'd have to sit and try each out to know what I want. When things calm down and the border reopens, I want to visit Canada again. Maybe I will drop in at Merriam's and torture Stu with my playing.
I am quite interested in Estonia pianos after watching this video.
They are gorgeous instruments with one of the most unique, singing voices you will ever hear from a piano! :)
Two great pianos! At first I preferred the Estonia, but the SK3 might suit this music better. Or did Stu just feel more inspired by the SK3? 🤔 Anyway, I'm trying to be fair and not prejudiced against Kawais - this time (second listening) I confess that I prefer the SK3.
When Stu first started talking about things that Estonia does differently from other piano manufacturers, I thought he was going to mention Estonia's claim that they build the keybed directly into the rim of the piano, rather than attaching it below the rim; they claim that this is part of the "old tradition of European piano making". I have no idea what effect this would have on the sound, but since they go out of their way to mention it on their website... anyone have any thoughts on the subject?
SK-3 by far and away has more color, more warmth. The tonal blends are fabulous.
I think that when you get to this level of piano it becomes a question of personal taste and what music you’re playing on the instrument.
I’m biased as I own an SK3L so I can’t say anything other than they are both wonderful
What’s the first piece on the Kawai at around min 11, that we got a glimpse of at min 2 too?
The Estonia sounds amazing,.
Yes!!! Stu!!!! You went to Chopin on the Shigeru Kawai!!! It seems to love that!
Yes. The Estonia is special in many ways.
This is a coin flip for pianists.
Both instruments are exceptionally gratifying.
BUT, I still want a Schimmel K230.
All three of those models are exceptional instruments that even the most discerning of players will enjoy!
What I'm getting from this is I just have to buy both pianos. :-)
Definitely buy both... and tell the wife later.
Completely agree with your take on the difference. The Shigeru is gorgeous, but sometimes has more shimmer than I want. The Estonia is gorgeous, but occasionally lacks shimmer I might want. I lean toward to the incredible sustain and gorgeous fundamental of the Estonia, but can I have both?
Haha I definitely agree with the sentiment! Why settle for just one of these gorgeous instruments? They serve as different musical tools for different musical jobs after all. ;)
So hard to choose: The Shigeru has such colourful sparkling treble and overall warmer more intimate sound, but the Estonia has great long sustain with clarity - it sounds larger & more open. I would probably pick the Estonia with its resonance and try to round out the treble through adjustments.
My preference was the Estonia L190. It’s clear crisp sound reminded me of the C. Bechstein sound.
I am hearing more richness and color from the Kawai. Who knows? It could be that the mics like it better. It's always a good question: Live vs. recorded.
The Estonia has a dryer clarity and purity - hard to describe, but I like it! I think Bach's music might sound better on the Estonia. Who knows? It could be that the piano technician could voice it differently and get an entirely different effect. It's always a good question: Voiced one way, or another.
There are certainly a number of factors that will influence the overall voice of an instrument. With that said, both the SK3 and L190 are marvellous pianos.
your Estonia videos which I discovered a couple of days ago made me turn TH-cam upside down in search of other Estonia demos. now I'm back for a very interesting "battle". my thoughts on Kawai , if I'm not mistaken they make their plate not wet sand cast but alloy type, resulting in Yamaha like ringing in the treble (far from bell like, pardon me). I do hope Shigeru line might be different, I'm not that deep in the topic. I'm almost certain, my future piano will be Estonia. it just embodies everything I aspire from an acoustic piano, a perfect blend in a way. put Steinway, Bluthner and Schimmel together and mix it in a blender and you get Estonia it seems.
well, I was pleasantly surprised. no nasty ringing, Shigeru is really something different. here it offers a tiny notch more than Estonia, whereas L190 is mellower, rounder.
The Shigeru Kawai and Estonia grands are both remarkable instruments! In my opinion, you can't really go wrong in either case. They are simply very different musical offerings with distinct characters. It ultimately comes down to personal preference of tone and touch.
@@MerriamPianos have you ever come across Kawai CA grand series? they were built just before the Shigeru was rolled out, outstanding instruments, you should definitely do a video on that. I actually own two CA-40N and they are both outstanding instruments.
The shigeru kawai has a more romantic sound.
Stu I am not sure you can arrange this , but I would love to hear your assessment of the Estonia 190 against the the Fazioli 183…
Hi Rob! We try to tackle as many review/comparison suggestions as possible and will certainly add that to the list. When it comes to certain comparisons with piano lines that we do not carry, we sometimes have to wait until a worthy specimen for review of a particular model comes into our showrooms used. Thanks for tuning in and all the best! :)
For Heaven's Sake hint at 31:57 ? Beautiful song ...
Nothing better than acoustic pianos....I felt that Estonia sounds like a million dollar instrument... Lovely play.. I think you should be more famous than Yanni
Interesting comparison. Yanni can't read music. I'm pretty sure Stu can.
My speakers are in no way capable of rendering a full piano sound, nevertheless piano, in concert quality tuning, sounds so beautiful. I have played on a Shigery Kawai grand and it had a warm beautiful sound and perfect action.
I would love to try an Estonia. It sounds so good in these samples.
That is a very good point! While our production team does an awesome job at capturing the voice of these beautiful pianos, hearing them in person with your own ears is a very special experience!
This video is relatable. I‘ve bought my E190 7 years ago, but these unique tonal qualities were the selling point and I have never heard it been better described then here. Estonia Piano are actually pretty rare in Western Europe. The Shigure Kawai is also really special but it is loud tonal beast, you have to pedal very differently when playing one. One thing to know before committing to an Estonia: It has to be prepared and tuned to the point to delivered the magic demonstrated in this video. Two days after tuning it will still sound very nice, but the fairy dust will be gone.
Hi Martin! Thanks so much for tuning in and sharing your excellent insights regarding the Estonia L190! They are remarkably crafted instruments with some of the greatest expressive potential that you will find. There is a beauty and delicacy to its songlike voice. Thanks again and happy playing! :)
The Estonia 190 is just louder in the middle section which appears to give a longer sustain sound. In a compact room the Shigeru could have the same effect.
My farts have the same effect in smaller rooms.
Well, for me it's just like Romanesque style temple with chorals vs African American Methodist church spirituals. So different! Personally I love the temperance of the first more.
Shigeru also as you know has carbon fiber action which makes it lighter than other actions, so that might also be why there's a bigger difference in key weight
The overall design of the Millennium III action does give it a different feel - that is for sure. With that said, it is remarkably responsive with very fast repetition speed. :)
Beautiful musicianship!! They're both very nice but, if I had to choose one, I'd go with the Estonia, because I enjoy a more brilliant tone. I also dislike the font used for the name on the SK 🤷🏻♂️
That is totally fair! You can't go wrong with either of these stunning grands. With that said, the L190 is immensely expressive. :)
Can anyone ID the name of the first song Stu played on the Estonia? Thanks!
Hi! Brent here! I would have to ask Stu as to the piece he is playing at that moment. With that said, perhaps, one of our helpful community members here will know the answer. :)
I want a grand piano
Is it possible to do a comparison video between Estonia 168 vs 190, please?
I will be happy to pass along the suggestion to our production team for you!
@@MerriamPianos much appreciated.
how do you do that?