Mutuality & Self-Sacrifice in Pokémon Mystery Dungeon Explorers of Sky
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 มิ.ย. 2024
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky is one of the best games in the Mystery Dungeon series. Today we explore the game's story to examine the themes of mutuality & altruism, by comparing the game to various pieces of scholarship.
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Sources:
[1] “Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky,” Metacritic. www.metacritic.com/game/ds/po...
[2] Casey DeFreitas, “Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Rescue Team DX Review,” IGN. • Pokemon Mystery Dungeo...
[3] Celine, “Nintendo software and hardware sales data from 1983 to present,” ResetEra. www.resetera.com/threads/nint...
[4] Jim Sterling, “Pokémon’s Business Model Has Always Been Trash.” • Pokémon's Business Mod...
[5] Jessica Lamb-Shapiro, “A Short History of Self-Help, The World’s Bestselling Genre,” Publishing Perspectives. publishingperspectives.com/20...
[6] Jennifer Wilson, “The Radical Origins of Self-Help Literature.” www.thenation.com/article/cul...
[7] Beth Blum, The Self-Help Compulsion: Searching for Advice in Modern Literature.
[8] “What People Are Still Willing To Pay For,” Forbes. www.forbes.com/2009/01/15/sel...
[9] Andrew Heywood, Political Ideologies: An Introduction.
[10] Vicente Navarro, “Neoliberalism as a class ideology; or, the political causes of the growth of inequalities,” Int. J. Health Serv.
[11] William Davies, The Limits of Neoliberalism: Authority, Sovereignty and the Logic of Competition.
[12] Matthew Jones, “11 Billion Reasons The Self Help Industry Doesn’t Want You To Know The Truth About Happiness,” Inc. www.inc.com/matthew-jones/11-...
[13] “Leviticus 19:18.” bible.usccb.org/bible/levitic...
[14] “Matthew 7:12.” bible.usccb.org/bible/matthew/7
[15] Confucius, “The Analects.” www.acmuller.net/con-dao/anale...
[16] Peter Kropotkin, Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution.
[17] Lydia Syson, “The radical aristocrat who put kindness on a scientific footing.” psyche.co/ideas/kropotkin-the...
[18] Lee Alan Dugatkin, “The Prince of Evolution: Peter Kropotkin’s Adventures in Science and Politics.” www.scientificamerican.com/ar...
[19] Stephen Jay Gould, “Kropotkin Was No Crackpot,” Natural History, vol. 97, no. 7. www.marxists.org/subject/scie...
[20] “John 15:13.” bible.usccb.org/bible/john/15
[21] “Final Fantasy VII - A Literary Analysis,” Games As Literature. • Final Fantasy VII - A ...
[22] Felipe De Brigard, “If You like It, Does It Matter If Its Real?,” Philosophical Psychology. doi.org/10.1080/0951508090353...
[23] Olga Khazan, “Is One of the Most Popular Psychology Experiments Worthless?” www.theatlantic.com/health/ar...
[24] Robert Nozick, Anarchy, State, and Utopia.
[25] John Rawls, A Theory of Justice.
[26] David Shaw, “The body as unwarranted life support: a new perspective on euthanasia,” J. Med. Ethics
[27] Judith J. Thomson, “Killing, letting die, and the trolley problem,” Monist
[28] Lindsay Ellis, “Death of the Author 2: Rowling Boogaloo.” • Death of the Author 2:...
[29] Z. Sarah, “Does JK Rowling’s Transphobia Ruin Harry Potter?” • Does JK Rowling's Tran...
[30] ContraPoints, J.K. Rowling, • J.K. Rowling | ContraP...
Credits:
Outro Template made by Grabster - / grabstertv
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
3:22 Chapter 1: Collaborative Growth
13:33 Chapter 2: Benefits of Helping Others
21:38 Chapter 3: The Ultimate Sacrifice
31:38 Epilogue: Complex Themes in Children's Media
#Pokemon #MysteryDungeon #ExplorersOfSky - เกม
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When I was 12, I got spoiled on this ending through an AMV, and I cried. Years later, when I finally got to learn the context of the ending in the game through my own playthrough, I was both shocked and amazed. A time paradox twist… I want to make writing like this.
what amv
The thematic consistency both across the main story and between all special episodes really implies to me that mutuality and sacrifice were intentional themes in the story rather than an unlikely interpretation. I liked this video; if I could leave a bit of hopefully constructive criticism, I felt that there were a number of times that the discussion became hard to follow and connect back to the game when quickly jumping between differently cited sources. Additionally, many different philosophical ideas were introduced without really expounding in satisfying depth why they were integral to the story of the game. I liked the discussion about Kropotkin and mutual aid though, and contrasting that with the scientist talking about the veracity of it in reference to Darwinian evolution. However, for all the critique that neoliberalism deserves it really felt highly irrelevant to this discussion as it seemed here to serve simply as an unnecessarily political synonym for individualism.
I personally think that the most poignant themes that make this story dear to me are the themes about "staying alive vs really living." Exploring with my partner was fun and rewarding, but what I remember realizing as a child when the twist about my sacrifice hit was "I'm never going to wake up next to my best friend again." It was the sweet, little moments that mattered the most to me. In Special Episode 5 this theme is expounded upon the most: Dusknoir just wants to stay alive at all costs even in a mad and lifeless world, while Grovile is willing to cut his life short knowing that no one in the future is truly living. That everyone is stunned and overwhelmed by the sight of the rising sun is exactly the point: we take little things like that so often for granted, but for the Pokemon of the future that moment mattered more to them than anything.
You sacrifice yourself mostly because you've already come as far as you have. You have to give up staying alive AND really living, and you know how much it's going to hurt your partner as well when you're gone. Dealing with this loss is an inevitable part of life; for all it's merits, I think that it would be a shame to talk about the end of the main story as simply a demonstration of utilitarian calculus. That moment was symbolic of the recognition, struggle with, and acceptance of death, and the expression of mutual gratitude between life partners for having made life worth living.
If you read this far, thank you for discussing this cherished part of my childhood (and for being willing to deal with a random person throwing an essay in your comments, haha).
A PMD Explorers video essay..? I'm currently crying tears of joy omg let's gooooooo
Well there may or not be three more on this channel, although those are more traditional review-style vids.
Surprisingly educational video, I always loved how open the PMD Explorers story is to interpretation. You know it's a good story when people can take away so much from it.
I hope we get a new game before a remake of this game: I love this game (it’s my favorite of all time) but I wanna see the series move forward
Definitely. I would like to see the series to let us play as gen 7 and gen 8 Pokémon, because the remakes won't have that.
@@RetroAndChill I would be so hype to be able to start with the boy Rowlet, and not just that, but I’d love it if they didn’t use the amnesia storyline again, but instead opted to do something completely different with the story.
It is really tired imo. It's a bit if a lazy trope, and isn't necessary to the plot in some cases, notably in Rescue Team and Gates (which I don't even think has that plot element).
@@RetroAndChill in gates it’s a little necessary to prevent your character from knowing munna was evil, and in both so your character didn’t know they would disappear until right before the finale, but those could easily be written around
@@RetroAndChill (I know I am replying to a 10 month old comment, but--)
*Possible Pokémon Mystery Dungeon Gates to Infinity Spoilers ahead*
Gates seemed to be the only PMD (other than the Wiiware titles... from what I seen of it when playing a fan-made English translation of it) that didn't have the player have amnesia. In fact, I believe out of all the games, GTI made it feel like you were "playing as yourself" more than the other titles, while the other games did not really have that. They were mainly games that, if you chose to name the player after yourself, just had you play as a character that was named after you instead of well... yourself. I mean, GTI had fourth wall breaks in the aftergame, which kinda made it feel more like you were... well... "you" instead of a character that was named after you. Plus, the character not having amnesia nor a backstory helped with that as well.
I was not expecting a philosophy lesson but im really interested in it
Really hope we get Explorer's of Sky DX. Peak storytelling in the entire franchise of Pokemon imo.
Great video!! 🤙
I would kill for a chance to play this game with updated mechanics. Going back to this game was hard after how much more streamlined the 3DS and Switch games have made things.
@@RetroAndChill as someone who didn't finish Explorer's until quite recently actually, i think they still hold up great and still look the best.
Yeah some nice QoL changes would be nice. I've put hundereds of dozens of hours into DX, it would be the cherry on top that's for sure.
More like explores dx
I don't. I hated _Rescue Team DX_ with a passion, and I'm afraid that a _Sky DX_ would be another absolute butchery.
You can also call it Explorers DX.
This touches on some very interesting subjects from an already deep game, I like it.
So glad I stumbled upon this video while searching for mystery dungeon content. It was nice to see a deeper dive into the explanation of the storytelling of this series and how it relates to us as humans and our world. You’re highly intelligent and seem to know your stuff very well
Holy shit, criminally underrated channel!! Keep up the quality! Also this game is GOAT 😤
I'm currently working on a fan comic based on the Mystery Dungeon games and the comic based off Explorers will be exploring everything you just talked about in this video and more. Other things I will be including is trauma, redemption, recovery, emotional bonds, and other things like that. I wanted to explore the more emotional side of the story and show the consequences of the lives the characters lived before and how they recover from them together. After all, even with amnesia, I can't exactly imagine the hero being all bubbly and sweet. Surely there would be deep emotional scars that remain with them even after being granted a new life when they meet the partner.
...I have no idea what you were talking about...but I am listening very carefully.
The copies of Explorers of Time and Darkness probably drastically dropped in sales after 2009, aka Explorers of Sky replaced their importance.
I'm not sure how I haven't found this video earlier, PMD content very rarely gets pushed by the algorithm, but this is by far the best little video essay I've seen talking about Explorers of Sky. EoS has been the single game that I've played through more than twice, let alone that I still replay even today, and it's hard to understate the impact that this game had on me when I was a kid. The themes of sacrifice primarily were beyond touching, and to watch this video give a succinct and excellent description of these themes really drives home how special the story is, and how good of a job it does conveying these themes to the player. Whether it was on my first playthrough, not necessarily understanding the deeper themes of the game, and only crying because it was emotional having the weight of that sacrifice you had to make for Grovyle, yourself, and most of all, your partner; to me as an adult now truly appreciating the nuances of the game (whether they're conclusions drawn out by the player, or truly intended in the design of the story. It never fails to bring me to tears seeing the relationship you and your partner built up throughout the course of your adventure, only to have that world taken away from them as they stumble over to the rainbow stoneship, leaving you behind. Even knowing that you're allowed to exist in the world and continue your adventure, the sadness still feels very strong and real in that farewell.
It's definitely nice seeing a love letter of this caliber being put out for the game and its story, and it truly was a nice watch, cementing in how important this game is to me, and a lot of people.
Well well. What are the odds that I just started PMD Explorers of Sky 3 days ago 👀
Great video man, you went into some concepts relating to this game I’ve been thinking about a lot myself recently and also some stuff I hadn’t previously considered. Really interesting stuff!
This is my first time seeing your channel. You deserve more subscribers. You did an excellent job on this video. And I've never even played Explorers of Sky lol.
I'm so glad youtube recommend this video to me. This was great!
Your Videos and Passion is great to watch. Subbed !
Explorers of Sky was not only one of the best Pokemon games, but also one of the best Video Games. I'd put it right up there with Breath of the Wild as some of the greatest games ever made. And I'm saying this as someone who's favorite game isn't Explorers of Sky, that's my 5th favorite. But though it isn't in my top three, I know that it's objectively better than my top 3, and should be recognized as such. Truly a phenomenal game.
Great video by the way. I love the constant tangents!
Dang it!
I really hope we get something new from the mystery dungeon franchise! Criminally underrated and there is so much untapped potential!
Edit: holy crap, chill just liked my post thirty minutes after writing this and this is a two year old video, I’m surprised and flattered
Great video, and great game!
When the guild members shared their food with you I got chills, I could feel the spirit of Karl Marx in that moment
I'm really glad you brought up distancing yourself with the creator's content and the creator itself. I'm sad to hear about all the scandal surrounding Kevin Spacey and racism of Mel Gibson. But gosh darned if I don't love a lot of movies they're in. Movies starring either of them are some of my favorite and I still plan to watch and love those movies regardless of what happened with the actors' personal lives. I separate the actors from the characters they portray.
If you think about it, Bidoof's wish ended up causing the apocalypse.
First time seeing your face...You look exactly like your Avatar!!!🤣Love that❤ Pokemon Explorers of Sky is my favorite mystery dungeon ever.
i am so glad people are doing philsophy on this game, very much looking forward to finding the time to listen through this
I would love to see you make a video about Super Mystery Dungeon. It's my favorite Mystery Dungeon of the bunch for many reasons.
It's on the todo list for sure. It might be a while as I've got some other ideas already in the cooker, and we've got Bravely Default II on the horizon ready to suck up a ton of my time.
@@RetroAndChill Ouch. Well, hopefully it'll be done soon enough, like within a few months or so.
Thank you for not talking about the end of Special Episode 5. It's the only part of the game I reject.
Underrated channel.
Speaking of the expédition, even tho everyone gets picked in the end, they all believed only à select few would go. So that they all helped each other even tho one pokemon struggling meant less competition is beautiful
hi I#m late but i'm here to give my two cents :)
i do think that the hero's actions are very much justifiable; mostly because of what the future was strongly implied ot be. There were not many pokemon that are still properly conscious; the only ones being Dusknoir, Grovyle, the Sableye, and some others that have still succumbed to immorality in terms of hurting/killing others. This IS however also mentioend to be due to fear; fear which can't be eradicated since it was prompted by the darkness, implying that this would be the case for many more generations to come, which, if Celebi dies at Dialga's hands, would be forever, most likely. While I would still see the action of saving the past as an act of "letting them die", and in no way do I want to imply that unhappy people don't deserve to live, i do think this DOES save individuals. I don't think a life in constant fear is very livable at all, and people very much deserve bette than that. + we don't know how many pokemon are actually still conscious, or if it's only the few ones we r confronted with, so the future trio, Spiritomb, the snorunt, and the porygon. which are... so very few in comparison, all of which are absolutely and completely willing to sacrifice themselves also as seen throughout the main game and bonus episode. i do think assisted death (i hate the term euthanasia because of it's nazi coining since I'm german) is, in many cases, a very viable option. And i do think that the hero changing the past, making the lives better for everyone in the past, and essentially assisting the death of people that are both unhappy and have expressed to willingly sacrifice themselves for the greater good is definitely on the morally whiter side than the morally black one.
i can however aboslutely see different viewpoints, this is only my own, really, and u did a super great job with the video :)
Hard agree on that. What kind of life could one live in a world submerged in complete darkness, where water doesn't run and food doesn't grow? It's a miracle that life can still be sustained like that, at all. The lord of time has gone completely insane and will make sure that things remain the way they are for better or for worse, and the whole thing started because of a natural disaster plotted by someone who wanted to rule the world from the shadows and bring misery and despair.
Philosophically, I think this video is good and you have put effort into it. Even if I don't agree with it politically in the slightest. It's true that mutual aid is an evolutionary advantage, but competition and cooperation are not one without the other as you are always cooperating for being competitively stronger in one way or another.
Conflict can be a question of perspective rather than principles or morality. Is the wolf evil for devouring the lamb? Or is the lamb evil for letting the wolf starve?
There is always a villain, and why take him alone when we can beat him together.
As there will always be conflict and disagreement because every being is different thus having a different mind and ideas of their own, also because of this same rule there will always be friendship and bonding over mutual interests and similar goals.
PMD: EoS really is one of the GOAT Pokemon games with great writing, music, and expanded and improved content. Even today, I'm still getting surprised with little things I never saw during my initial few playthroughs.
Game Freak, we're waiting for that remaster. If you can remaster Rescue Team, you can for sure remaster the Explorers series.
Didn't expect to get this video recommended after over two years. Nonetheless, here's my opinion:
While the philosophical messages talked about may or may not have been the intention of the author(s), considering the su*c*de prevention message in the last story arc of this game, I would say that the likelyhood of the philosophical messages being intended is very high.
bro made a whole ass video essay. still watching and enjoying but damn. whole ass essay.
banger video my guy
I'm glad you're adding scholarly sources to your essay and I know the explorers games touch on serious topics. But hearing social Darwinism, the Bible and celebi mentioned back to back feels a little silly.
Honestly I look back on this video and think the premise was a tiny big contrived lol
When you discussed whether the author intended some of these themes or not and whether it matters or not, I would like to point out that many themes like neoliberalism can affect someone unconsciously or indirectly. We do not always know the reasoning that makes us form an opinion or like something. Great video, and very well done using the popular examples of the trolley problem and whether or not to kill baby Hitler, and referencing the points brought up.
Pokémon mystery Dungeon ❤ let it make a comeback!
Why is this man’s look so menacing for no reason?
Shinx, my partner, is probably my favorite Pokémon charger period. My Fennekin partner in PSMD was pretty amazing, too.
Have you played the Special Episodes in Explorers of Sky? Bidoof, WIgglytuff and Grovyles are my favorites but they're all really fun!
On the idea of the sacreficeing the future you came from to make a new future that was and still IS grovile and celebi’s mission and their wish and in special episode 5, dusknoir has over time accepted the mission and by the end of the day dialga was mad so i believe ir is better to grant the wish of your old friends over keeping it the same
i love love LOVE pmddx but i wish we had regular attacks
Stumbled on this series…and enjoying your analyses, but man do I miss explorers. I never had Sky, but I at least had Time but can no longer find it. Even if not a remake, I hope they find some form to make these games accessible again.
The gameplay can be iffy at times, but man do the stories and music still hit.
While I would love a remake, and especially a new entry..this far out my hope is sadly fading given sales numbers of the series over time. Who knows though?
So sky is the more improved version of time and darkness? Meaning I can skip those 2 in my playthrough of the series?
yes, it's the same story with more in the post game and the wonderful special episodes, I highly recommend playing the sky version :)
Yep, same as Diamond/Pearl to Platinum
this video is wonderful but i cannot even begin to put into words how distracted i am by half of you being green, and the subtle changes in that green lighting as you speak
Lucario looking thicc af at 8:27.
Correct me if i'm wrong but i think maybe the 2008 recession in america might have been a factor in the sales of explorers of sky. Time and Darkness released a year before and sky released a year after
That’s a possibility that it might have exacerbated the situation but also 3rd versions historically don’t do as well as their initial pair.
@@RetroAndChill i didn't realize till after i posted that this video is two years old so i appreciate the reply regardless ;D
1:46 if i had to guess the 3rd version while a scummy practice basically allowed for post launch updates before they were able to be easily done online which let games like platinum fix problems of the originals such as the slow speed if the first gen 4 games being sped up while also adding additional content to make the purchase of a game you already own seem more worth it
10:28 is my favorite part where he’s like some people make trash content but still get famous lol and he shows Jake Paul
Oof, I could have lived without knowing how bad ign's review is.
It's shocking seeing how disconnected the "critics" are from the players lol.
And IGN gave a 9.3 to Sword/Shield 😂
My understanding is that games journalism is kinda the bottom of the totem pole in the journalism world. All the good journalism students end up going to work for publications the New York Times and the Washington Post, leaving the weaker students to review games.
@@RetroAndChill You'd be completely correct. There is a disgusting lack of work ethic and criteria in that subset, where personal bias and interest trumps over objective facts.
Has anyone told you you look like Dr. Takuto Maruki?
From persona 5 royal
Imo this was the last great Pokemon game, if i dont count the DX remake.
hi
SORRY BUT I WAS NOT EXPECTING TO SUDDENLY HEAR YUGI GROVYLE IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS VIDEO
I love all of your pmd videos! So so underrated :] the effort you put into them is so clear and you do an amazing job giving very thoughtful and well organized commentary
Wait!? Is that actually Dan Green doing the voice!?
Holy shit! It is!
@@RetroAndChill yes!!
11:24 is the part I needed to start at
10:19 **Laughs in composer who spends time on original music that gets less than 1,000 views while some black haired doxxer (who will remain nameless) gets millions by barely reacting to other people's content**
Every time I see ‘Explorers of Sky’ on its own when referring to 2 as a whole, I break just a bit more. So what if Sky has more dungeons and Bidoof lore, it’s not the only one, Darkness was the game I fell in love with, and the only acceptable name to me now for the remake is Grand Tale of Time and Darkness, just as they say in the proper opening
Sky is the better version between the three, just like Platinum is the better version between Diamond and Pearl and the best way to enjoy gen 4.
Personally, I wouldn't wanna see a remake of _Explorers of Sky_
They'd probably end up butchering a _Sky DX_ like they did with _Rescue Team DX_