There's a new fan community version to play 40K cooperatively called "Horde Mode" that pits players against an "AI" horde. It's a great way to introduce new people without having to be adversarial in their first match. (Definitely not just mentioning it because I'm vaguely associated with their discord.)
Narrative/Crusade play is honestly my favorite, even if it takes a while. My friends and I were able, over the course of 2 months. Fashion a storyline for each of our armies. My Tau "Urban Assault Formation" (as I called them) went from being a bunch of bright eyed rookies from the homeworld to a ragtag band of grizzled and disillusioned veterans who went rogue and broke a blockade in order to join up with the Farsight Enclaves after encountering Daemons for the first time. One of my friends got their Chaos Lord ascended to a Daemon Prince, another had their Aeldari Corsairs become Ynnari followers after some grueling ordeals, etc.
From trying to get my dad into 40K via combat patrol, I don’t think it’s as new player friendly as it sounds. It still has secondaries and stratagems which are what I find to be the biggest hurdles to teaching someone. Personally I’d like to see more fan made formats, like the poorhammer horde mode.
Just ditch the strategems and its fine. I recently got a friend into Warhammer and we played a game of Combat Patrol and i told him that we can either ditch the Strategems all together, just use the core Strategems (mainly Grenades, Overwatch and CP Reroll) or use all Strategems. The latter option is too much for most people. Personally the 2nd option is a good middle ground, since Strategems are a core part of 40k right now.
@@jup331some combat patrol boxes won’t work without stratagems, mostly the space marine one and imperial guard one. Not getting sticky or generally having lower points makes things much tougher
I am working on getting in right now with my sister and we currently aren't using secondaries and barely using strategems. Though tank shock was very effective.
@@jup331Take note that they removed the grenade key word from the Space Marines data sheet for combat patrol, so that strat isn’t available for them. Don’t know about other factions.
At the moment, my favorite way to play is "4+"... no matter what you play with, you get a Success on a 4+. Did I hit? Did I Wound? Did I Save? 4+ is a Success. It was neat to see the old "Missions"... such as "Meat Grinder". =)
My problem with all the moves to legends is that they just pushed all the new Horus Heresy models as compatible with 40K. Then they switched and took them all out. So I bought new plastic models with the expectation they were supported in 40K, just for them to be dropped into Legends not even a year later.
As someone just falling into the 40k rabbit hole, knowing that I don't have to play competitively, and I can potentially play a necromunda style narrative with a whole army makes me more excited to get my models ready
Videos mentioned: Playlist of Index Card errors: th-cam.com/video/GQ4dCQSYvxk/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=40kVtuber%3AChristianVonCarmian Making Homebrew Celestians: th-cam.com/video/tJRtHqRnsEE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=emwsXdS6-l9IZDnB Adepta Sororitas potential detachments: th-cam.com/video/wG9btE9LjFU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=2i1jlQHaRrDsjcgw Fan made 4th edition scenario for 10th edition: th-cam.com/video/aMi0VV9qNHk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=FanKLSAJDsTff00g How to start a Genestealer Cult army with combat patrol: th-cam.com/video/CNb2IrFgrZs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=cPlQcJmn4lXNJlGw GW tournament FAQ: th-cam.com/video/7H9xj4dIbZg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=mhM7uhTymUrkbe3f What 2nd edition 40k was like: th-cam.com/video/Y0hKICkm7sc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=8ob1LgNw3t6RhuXJ
I always enjoyed a KillTeam game whenever i don't want to bring out the 2k+ armies out of the display cabinet. And as a tyranid player that exclusively runs endless swarm, it is A LOT of minis lol.
I finished up a crusade campaign recently, Chaos Knights, my warlord (Knight Desecrator) had Fights First, Lone Op, 2+ Save, and her chain sword ignored invul saves. Was just so mean
Aaaah vampire of my heart! Thank you❤ I have old mini's for my DA army and , except the 32 bases I need to change, I will be using my old dreadnought thank-you very much!
changing the base size is generally considered optional, at least in GW tournaments you use the base that the model came with. So you shouldn't have too much trouble when playing casually
@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber I was told that, but I want to change them for a few reasons. The first one is that with a 32mm base my metal mini doesn't fall on the side as easily 😂, 2: we mostly have new players the local GW and I don't want to confuse anyone. And 3: my metal mini's don't fall on the side as much... 😋
If you wanted more evidence that these terms are still in use - including Open play. The GW team did a Battle Report of Dark Angels Deathwing vs Chaos Space marines using the mission in WD496 and called it an "Open Play" mission.
I think that the pregenerated terrain layouts also make set up faster because you don’t have to mess around fitting terrain on the board and making sure there’s an appropriate amount of cover
the game is for having fun, so do what makes you the happiest. My group usually goes by just trying to get the most awesome narrative, then fit the mission around that, what units you wanna use goes first, your opponent can match the points then! i think thats open play mostly?
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I wish Boarding Actions would get promoted by GW again. They still sell the terrain box and there is the basic rule pdf available on their website but besides that it sadly it's not a competitive format so nobody talks about it. 🙁
Personally I’ve played a few games of 10th edition so far, and considering my army is inspired by the series iron within gw have released on warhammer tv. So the last 10-13 games I’ve so far played where wirh around 70ish % of legacy units
it is possible to do that, it may be hard because of the moving about but it also includes one basic mission. It could be done. Core rulebook is also available for free from GW in the link in the description
@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber I wish I knew about it being available for free before I got tricked into buying one in a GW store (I could have bought some more sisters with that money!). I'll definitely share that link with my friend who's getting into 40k as well though, thanks!
Crusade became my main way to play in 9th edition just because of how TERRIBLE the matched play rules where in that edition. Too much confusion, too many overlapping rules, too many pre-game decisions, just balanced and adjusted down to the smallest detail. The Crusade missions, meanwhile, where much more dynamic and fun, and the leveling up system was incredibly fun. The special relics and upgrades you got also tended to be much more fluffy than the main rules. I always try to push for Crusade whenever I get the chance and do not get the mindset of only playing matched play.
I felt the same for most factions in 9th ed. GSC I was ok with as they didn't have many units to remember but Space marines were a big mess. The fluffy crusade was nicer
I think my only Legends unit is my Space Wolves Sniper Scouts with 9 x Snipers inc Sergeant and a Missle Launcher guy. Shame really. Not sure what I'd replace them with if I wanted to compete. :P
there are only the regular scouts which can have 2/10 with snipers, or the Eliminators (not too competitive right now) that I can think of. But the sniper scouts are still fun!
@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber I liked them better in 9th with their devastating wounds thing? So roll a 6 to wound = no save. They're still a fun unit to play and performed quite well in my last battle. (Report on my channel.) I actually wonder if the first tournement playable army I'll have will be my Sisters. I got a Missionary and 3 Arco Flagellants the other day to make up points to a 1500 base if I add Celestine and 5 Zephyrim. I have a lot of building and painting to do but the 1500 pts will end up, Morven Vahl, 6 x Paragon War Suits, 5 x Celestian Sacresants, 10 x Battle Sisters, 5 x Retributors, Exorcist, Hospitalier, Imagifier, Dialogus, Missionary, 3 x Arco Flagellants, 1 Mortifier and 1 Penitent Engine, then Celestine and 5 Zeph which I have yet to acquire. Couple of enhancements on characters take it to a round 1500. Not sure where I go from there, maybe a Castigator? Maybe Repentia? Maybe a Transport? I need to get a solid 1500 then try then vs my disjointed Space Wolves and Nids armies to see what they need. :)
NGL, the "Legends" fate of some units really can hurt. But it can get even worse. Like, I like playing Tau. Legend fate for Shas’o R’alai hurts. But the fact that unique XV-8 variants are forced to be ran as regular XV-8 commander without the special weapons / wargear? That just sucks hard. These models are *amazing* and you can't run it even in Legends-friendly environment.
@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber Ah, Gotcha! While that does suck, it's not what I was hoping to build, so I personally dodged a bullet, at least. Thank you.
In trying to create a more balanced game that can be tweaked every few months to sell model kits, GW instead just made the game boring. It's all about fishing for 6's now, and while I like the idea of Critical Hits and Critical Wounds the special rules that interact with these are way too easy to spam and have become ubiquitous.
There's a new fan community version to play 40K cooperatively called "Horde Mode" that pits players against an "AI" horde. It's a great way to introduce new people without having to be adversarial in their first match.
(Definitely not just mentioning it because I'm vaguely associated with their discord.)
I’m curious now. Do you have a link to these rules by any chance please?
Now I'm interested in a link. Gonna go search now.
@@TimothyNiederriter Google "Poorhammer horde mode"
Isn’t that the one made by the poorhammer guys?
@@dragonraptor9756 yup
Narrative/Crusade play is honestly my favorite, even if it takes a while. My friends and I were able, over the course of 2 months. Fashion a storyline for each of our armies. My Tau "Urban Assault Formation" (as I called them) went from being a bunch of bright eyed rookies from the homeworld to a ragtag band of grizzled and disillusioned veterans who went rogue and broke a blockade in order to join up with the Farsight Enclaves after encountering Daemons for the first time. One of my friends got their Chaos Lord ascended to a Daemon Prince, another had their Aeldari Corsairs become Ynnari followers after some grueling ordeals, etc.
that sounds really cool!
From trying to get my dad into 40K via combat patrol, I don’t think it’s as new player friendly as it sounds. It still has secondaries and stratagems which are what I find to be the biggest hurdles to teaching someone.
Personally I’d like to see more fan made formats, like the poorhammer horde mode.
Just ditch the strategems and its fine.
I recently got a friend into Warhammer and we played a game of Combat Patrol and i told him that we can either ditch the Strategems all together, just use the core Strategems (mainly Grenades, Overwatch and CP Reroll) or use all Strategems. The latter option is too much for most people. Personally the 2nd option is a good middle ground, since Strategems are a core part of 40k right now.
@@jup331some combat patrol boxes won’t work without stratagems, mostly the space marine one and imperial guard one. Not getting sticky or generally having lower points makes things much tougher
I am working on getting in right now with my sister and we currently aren't using secondaries and barely using strategems. Though tank shock was very effective.
@@jup331Take note that they removed the grenade key word from the Space Marines data sheet for combat patrol, so that strat isn’t available for them. Don’t know about other factions.
There are some community projects like Poorhammer's Horde Mode. It's pretty fun.
At the moment, my favorite way to play is "4+"... no matter what you play with, you get a Success on a 4+. Did I hit? Did I Wound? Did I Save? 4+ is a Success. It was neat to see the old "Missions"... such as "Meat Grinder". =)
That's basically how the game is now except its 6+ (5+ if you have a rule that lowers the Critical Hit threshold) lmao
My problem with all the moves to legends is that they just pushed all the new Horus Heresy models as compatible with 40K. Then they switched and took them all out. So I bought new plastic models with the expectation they were supported in 40K, just for them to be dropped into Legends not even a year later.
The literal straw man and the reference to object permenance- Christian is my spirit animal
As someone just falling into the 40k rabbit hole, knowing that I don't have to play competitively, and I can potentially play a necromunda style narrative with a whole army makes me more excited to get my models ready
Videos mentioned:
Playlist of Index Card errors: th-cam.com/video/GQ4dCQSYvxk/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=40kVtuber%3AChristianVonCarmian
Making Homebrew Celestians: th-cam.com/video/tJRtHqRnsEE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=emwsXdS6-l9IZDnB
Adepta Sororitas potential detachments: th-cam.com/video/wG9btE9LjFU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=2i1jlQHaRrDsjcgw
Fan made 4th edition scenario for 10th edition: th-cam.com/video/aMi0VV9qNHk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=FanKLSAJDsTff00g
How to start a Genestealer Cult army with combat patrol: th-cam.com/video/CNb2IrFgrZs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=cPlQcJmn4lXNJlGw
GW tournament FAQ: th-cam.com/video/7H9xj4dIbZg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=mhM7uhTymUrkbe3f
What 2nd edition 40k was like: th-cam.com/video/Y0hKICkm7sc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=8ob1LgNw3t6RhuXJ
Thanks we need more narrative play.
I always enjoyed a KillTeam game whenever i don't want to bring out the 2k+ armies out of the display cabinet. And as a tyranid player that exclusively runs endless swarm, it is A LOT of minis lol.
I just play single player. In 20 years ... ive had 2 human opponents. I live in the swamp. Nobody out here plays. So i had to get a little creative.
I finished up a crusade campaign recently, Chaos Knights, my warlord (Knight Desecrator) had Fights First, Lone Op, 2+ Save, and her chain sword ignored invul saves. Was just so mean
Aaaah vampire of my heart! Thank you❤ I have old mini's for my DA army and , except the 32 bases I need to change, I will be using my old dreadnought thank-you very much!
changing the base size is generally considered optional, at least in GW tournaments you use the base that the model came with. So you shouldn't have too much trouble when playing casually
@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber I was told that, but I want to change them for a few reasons. The first one is that with a 32mm base my metal mini doesn't fall on the side as easily 😂, 2: we mostly have new players the local GW and I don't want to confuse anyone. And 3: my metal mini's don't fall on the side as much... 😋
If you wanted more evidence that these terms are still in use - including Open play. The GW team did a Battle Report of Dark Angels Deathwing vs Chaos Space marines using the mission in WD496 and called it an "Open Play" mission.
I would be devastated if 11th did away with weapon options completely, as I am still annoyed with no points per model or points for wargear.
I think that the pregenerated terrain layouts also make set up faster because you don’t have to mess around fitting terrain on the board and making sure there’s an appropriate amount of cover
Tfw GW still sells Krieg Engineers, but they have neither index nor legends rules.
Did you talk about boarding actions? You can still play this in 10th edition. We plan on playing this at our next big group event.
the game is for having fun, so do what makes you the happiest. My group usually goes by just trying to get the most awesome narrative, then fit the mission around that, what units you wanna use goes first, your opponent can match the points then!
i think thats open play mostly?
I wish Boarding Actions would get promoted by GW again. They still sell the terrain box and there is the basic rule pdf available on their website but besides that it sadly it's not a competitive format so nobody talks about it. 🙁
Personally I’ve played a few games of 10th edition so far, and considering my army is inspired by the series iron within gw have released on warhammer tv.
So the last 10-13 games I’ve so far played where wirh around 70ish % of legacy units
Chipping Norton!? That's very specific and not far from where I live 🤣
How extensive is the core rules section of the 40k app? Could you play a game with just what's in there or would you have to read the rule book.
it is possible to do that, it may be hard because of the moving about but it also includes one basic mission. It could be done.
Core rulebook is also available for free from GW in the link in the description
@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber I wish I knew about it being available for free before I got tricked into buying one in a GW store (I could have bought some more sisters with that money!). I'll definitely share that link with my friend who's getting into 40k as well though, thanks!
Crusade became my main way to play in 9th edition just because of how TERRIBLE the matched play rules where in that edition. Too much confusion, too many overlapping rules, too many pre-game decisions, just balanced and adjusted down to the smallest detail. The Crusade missions, meanwhile, where much more dynamic and fun, and the leveling up system was incredibly fun. The special relics and upgrades you got also tended to be much more fluffy than the main rules. I always try to push for Crusade whenever I get the chance and do not get the mindset of only playing matched play.
I felt the same for most factions in 9th ed. GSC I was ok with as they didn't have many units to remember but Space marines were a big mess. The fluffy crusade was nicer
I think my only Legends unit is my Space Wolves Sniper Scouts with 9 x Snipers inc Sergeant and a Missle Launcher guy. Shame really. Not sure what I'd replace them with if I wanted to compete. :P
there are only the regular scouts which can have 2/10 with snipers, or the Eliminators (not too competitive right now) that I can think of.
But the sniper scouts are still fun!
@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber I liked them better in 9th with their devastating wounds thing? So roll a 6 to wound = no save. They're still a fun unit to play and performed quite well in my last battle. (Report on my channel.) I actually wonder if the first tournement playable army I'll have will be my Sisters. I got a Missionary and 3 Arco Flagellants the other day to make up points to a 1500 base if I add Celestine and 5 Zephyrim. I have a lot of building and painting to do but the 1500 pts will end up, Morven Vahl, 6 x Paragon War Suits, 5 x Celestian Sacresants, 10 x Battle Sisters, 5 x Retributors, Exorcist, Hospitalier, Imagifier, Dialogus, Missionary, 3 x Arco Flagellants, 1 Mortifier and 1 Penitent Engine, then Celestine and 5 Zeph which I have yet to acquire. Couple of enhancements on characters take it to a round 1500. Not sure where I go from there, maybe a Castigator? Maybe Repentia? Maybe a Transport? I need to get a solid 1500 then try then vs my disjointed Space Wolves and Nids armies to see what they need. :)
NGL, the "Legends" fate of some units really can hurt. But it can get even worse.
Like, I like playing Tau. Legend fate for Shas’o R’alai hurts.
But the fact that unique XV-8 variants are forced to be ran as regular XV-8 commander without the special weapons / wargear? That just sucks hard. These models are *amazing* and you can't run it even in Legends-friendly environment.
Wait... how is the sisters box a lie? I just ordered one before watching this video. Can you not build 10 sisters?
you can't build 5 celestians as it claims. The unit has no rules in 10th ed
@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber Ah, Gotcha! While that does suck, it's not what I was hoping to build, so I personally dodged a bullet, at least. Thank you.
Lots of casuals use tournament rules? Easier to organise? I could use legends, but the app doesn't have them on it. GW doing this for ease? Realty?
In trying to create a more balanced game that can be tweaked every few months to sell model kits, GW instead just made the game boring. It's all about fishing for 6's now, and while I like the idea of Critical Hits and Critical Wounds the special rules that interact with these are way too easy to spam and have become ubiquitous.
You're both cute and informative. Lovely combo.
dang whis you could have gone over horde mode by poorhammer
Horde Mode
Wtf is Legends and Forgeworld and Index and Codex? This video doesn't seem as intended for beginners as the title suggests.
Tau hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh