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Those kids 😱🥺 they may be physically recovered, but mentally recovering from such trauma is rough. I hope they have a great support network of loving people around them. 💔🫂
Simon's wildly inconsistent yet very similar pronunciations of Zaed and Saad made me use so much of my brain power for the first half of the episode. Never change Simon, never change.
Can we take a minute to appreciate how badass these parents were? They managed to successfully protect both their girls so that both survived. Quick thinking in the crisis and courageous. Rest easy knowing your girls are alive and well.
Katie. Hats off for presenting this in a way the audience can speculate throughout the unfolding. It’s been amazing to piece theories as this presented!
I want to give some props to the editor. I never noticed it before because I rarely listen to this with my good headphones on, but the subtle little music cues between sections are always there and they work very well.
Simon could make so much money on merchandise of his quotes. “Don’t sell your murder helmet” would look great on a shirt, magnetic, sticker, etc. especially a sticker on a motorcycle helmet!
I wonder if some part of the "suicide pact" theory had some weight? Not that Iqbal had planned anything, but maybe the ex always hoped she'd come back and once he heard that she was dead, he took his own life. Idk it absolutely could be a coincidence, but without an autopsy there's always the possibility
As a homicide detective, I have to agree with the random shooter situation. The most compelling reason I see is that both sets of victims came to the spot randomly. The biker stated he saw the bike and car with no followers. The victims were in the same spot at the same time. The script said there were 22 casings. That fits with a full magazine plus one round and two additional full magazines. The beating of the daughter was because all of the ammunition was used. The scene, as presented, seems impulsive and disorganized. Leaving a portion of the pistol grip and the amount of shooting, coupled with the beating of the daughter, feels more like a panicked response. This is an interesting case I will be reading more of. Great episode.
Or, heck, it WAS a planned killing… of someone else entirely. If both sets of victims along with at least one witness were lost, why not the killer as well? He goes up a mountain to kill someone entirely different and by the time he realized his mistake, there’s a lot more victims than intended.
i was thinking that if the family was the target the the fact that the cyclist was there might have used more bullets than the killer thought. although this means that he was still short enough for one person, probably the 4 year old who may not have been known about or whom may have been deemed young enough to leave alive (unable to provide proper testimony etc).
Non US citizens seem to have a difficult time comprehending the possibility of a person killing people they don't know for no reason especially when kids are involved. We are the odd ones that hear these things and don't think random people killing strangers isn't strange at all.
You did fantastic on everything else. I think the people bothered by it can let it slide. Unless you're one of the people bothered by it. At that point, it's kind of a personal issue.
@@RomeoEchoDelta the biggest issue I had was the pronunciation of the two brothers names were so inconsistent and sometimes so similar that I had a hard time telling who was who during the family dispute section of the episode
Using a firearm that old makes perfect sense. If it's that old then there's a good chance that it's not on any registries as being owned by any particular individual - at least not one that's alive. For all intents and purposes it doesn't officially exist and can't be linked to any specific individual outside of any fingerprints left on it, but even then if they aren't on any official record the police wouldn't know where to begin looking for them.
@Noah_E technically you could have a brand new and legal firearm without a serial number if you make it from scratch. The idea of serial numbers for anything other than warrantee purposes is silly anyway. They certainly don't have any affect on public safety.
@SEAZNDragon don't let your shit get stolen. 🤷🏻♂️ Also, since it's exceedingly rare for people to manufacture personal firearms, the lack of serial number is almost as good as having one.
I have never heard this story. As an American, I am looking for anything to help With the anxiety and distract me for the next 6 days . Nothing like a good true crime story to make me feel relaxed and calmed during these days ….
Don’t record your crimes, but Simon claims to have the writers chained up in the basement. This means one of three things! 1) Simon is so bad at crime, he can’t even follow his own rules. 2) Simon is a criminal genius using reverse psychology on us, knowing that we’d have to believe he was an idiot to believe the writers are actually chained up in the basement, keeping his crime undiscovered indefinitely. 3) Simon is following the rules, because the writers aren’t in fact chained up in the basement, but somewhere else, like the attic or something. But which is it?! The world may never know…
Option 4. They are chained up in the basement but its some weird (non sexual) BDSM thing the authors are into. And there for sense its consensual its not a crime.
To back up Whistle Boy on the Vessi shoes. I just walked through a freezing mountain stream while hiking and only the sock above my shoes got wet! My pair is over five years old and they have held up and are fantastic! They are literal torture to break in but after that they are amazing!! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Can confirm they're amazing. Mine were nice from the start and are still my favorite shoes 1.5 years later. The only (!!) sneaker-like shoes that consistently keep my feet dry (unless it's raining so hard the water is running down my legs). My next pair will be high enough to cover my ankles as I'm living in an area with considerable snowfall.
@@JordyValentine I did not know that (I'm not an influencer so I wouldn't know) and I agree that seems a bit weird. But they're actually pretty good shoes and if it wasn't such a pain to order them (they don't ship to the EU) I'd probably have more pairs already.
@@rage9715 start wherever....but if you see newer episodes first, you wont see the slow progress where Simon loses his crap a little more each episode 😂😂😂
As for Menegaldo and his note (thanks yt for making me skirt around the word...), as someone who has dealt with that type of mental health issues before it absolutely makes sense to me that he could have convinced himself that he was a suspect, even though that was obviously not the case.
That was my thought. The Legion is not a nice place and people tend to come out of it "different". I can easily see an ex-soldier with severe PTSD being called in and interrogated by the police becoming paranoid. And with the media circus that was going on at the time, he would likely be reminded of it several times a day. When they're already in a spiral, that kind of thing could lead to it getting worse.
Sometime, people just snap. A few years ago a young man walked into a local tire shop, shot several people, killing a women that was a customer, and them killed himself. He had no connection to the business, any of the victims and there was no history of mental illness, or signs on social media to indicate his evil intent. The possibility that this was just a random/serial killing has to be acknowledged.
I agree. It was probably an ex cop that had a power trip or an argument with one of the parties (the family and the cyclist) and ended up killing all witnessess. Given that the cyclist was shot the most, i have the feeling he was the first kill. The family car probably saw the cyclist dead on the floor and pulled over. The killer (being an ex cop) knows very well that any witness would doom him so he ends the job and takes the whole family out. It probably took a little bit too... THe mother probably hid the little girl under the skirt herself. HOWEVER... I find it strange that he had that much ammo on him... If he just snapped and went out to kill people for the heck of it I would imagine that he would target a more populated area. Very mysterious indeed
From the start I thought it just sounded like a random killing. There might have been a racial component, however they looked pretty Western so yeah. Someone might have just snapped.
I was almost certain I had heard this story before on Casual Criminalist, way back near the beginning, but I guess not. The version I heard didn't include the wife's trip to America and the old flame dying on the exact same day, though. That makes an already unusual story even more intriguing.
😂Hello there!😂 Don’t usually comment but today your hello to TH-cam folks made me laugh…now to finish watching….you are talking shoes right now…lol…Thank you for making me smile. Be safe.
Hey! I’m in California for the week with a friend while she does a class. I’m walking around the streets of Anaheim listening to Fact Boy and it is awesome ❤
I'm not even really paying attention. I'm just here silencing the voices of reason who got me all excited about our elections over the past few months. Thankful for Simon's soothing voice.
We complained like an angry town mob when once there was a new long upload but it was ruined because there was some dreadful hick music on a loop playing very loudly the entire video and ever since then, it's been nearly no background music. The editor is certainly struggling it does seem 😂 o well
@@rebeccasebastian8407 personally I don't want to hear background music. It's distracting and I unsubbed from several of his channels because I couldn't take the incessant dings and swooshes.
23:44 My ex worked with Iraqi expats and they very often went back to Iraq to try and get their old houses back. Most of them only left after the 2002 invasion and they still had very angry squatters and tons of legal work.
I have never stopped thinking about this story since it happened. The random shooter/serial killer theory makes sense to me. This story also shows how messy and filled with coincidences and unexplained decisions normal lives are.
Thinking it was a professional human just because of the double tap is a logical fallacy as this has been shown in a lot of entertainment media so any murderer who does not panic might just have done this to obscure the motive for the crime, to make absolutely sure the victims are dead or hell, just because they think are cool like some professional assassin in a movie for doing it.
Theory that nobody brought up which surprised me, since it was the first thing that popped into my head, is that the ex husband died of stress after finding out his ex wife is dead. Perhaps hiring an assassin and then finding out he carried out a hit is waaaaaay more stressful than he anticipated. He could have had regrets, or tried to cancel a hit but it was too late. Perhaps he was scared of the repercussions. Perhaps only after he realised she’s truly dead the reality of what he has done hit him. Not saying this happened! I’m just saying that as a very anxious person, who often agrees to do something and then very much regrets doing so, this was the first thing I thought about.
I have been watching @The Casual Crimi alist for years. I have to say this one was the most gripping and fascinating one I have seen to date. All the twists and turns and possible outcomes were so plausible and yet so outlandish at the same time. One minute you are thinking it is this person but then your are thinking it is this country but what there more about one of the murder victims that throws everything on its head! Bravo Katie! Your should get a raise AND your own rat free room with a window in the basement!
27:00 I’m not sure we can act like he didn’t have any access to sensitive information. As for his job; Surrey Satellite Technology Limited (SSTL) specialise in the design, build, and operation of small satellites. SSTL is known for pioneering low-cost space missions and advancing satellite technology for a range of applications, including Earth observation, navigation, science, and telecommunications. As for him ‘only’ designing a bracket for a coffee machine to be used on the Airbus; SSTL are a subsidiary of Airbus and so however you slice it he was clearly part of the design and/or engineering team at the company. Also Simon is absolutely correct; if you’re going to place someone in a position which gives them access to information you keep them low profile but high enough to access designs for example…sounds like he’d have had decent access. People often don’t realise how important the information they have action is, in the right, or wrong hands.
Apologies if this has been said already but though rare that manner of serial killing is absolutely possible, Israel Keyes for example. Hide out in a remote area, pick random people...ultimately the motive could have been just to murder.
As soon as Simon said, "The family and the cyclist," I had a massive OH SHIT moment. This case is one of my "favourites," for lack of a less morbid term, for how mysterious it is.
Wonderful script, and great presentation as always. I did want to point out, however, that it seemed like Simon was railroading the story in his mind around it being a professional job.
How many people watch/listen using headphones, and mistake the occasional thump on Simon's table that's picked up by the microphone (not a criticism just a humorous observation!) to a sound in the house! 🤣🤣
I don't have any theories, but I would add five observations: 1) we now know that state actors (Russia, Iran) are hiring biker gangs to kill enemies (see WaPo, WSJ Sept. 2024 reporting) 2) we also know that "professional hits" are sometimes more like "Airquotes" "professional" 3) Saad didn't have to actually be involved in anything suspicious (or not directly) for people in his life (or on the perihery of his life) to think that his politics and job made him dangerous 4) regarding Mollier's not-quite in-laws (I am not accusing them, at all, there's no evidence linking them, but I would have looked at this hard, and perhaps the police did) -- if they disliked him enough, and were upset that will the new baby they were never getting rid of him, that is a motive, actually money at the time aside. I felt that was dismissed a little quickly, even before the additional information about the legionnaire who got twitchy about being interviewed by police. 5) the fact that the car and the cyclist both took wrong turns doesn't change the fact that either could have been tracked. The idea that this is a purely random crime is fascinating. If it were, I can only imagine the glee the killer must have gotten from the investigation; it makes it unlikely that the killer would not have tried to recreate the experience.
My absolute favorite part of these is when Simon inevitability wonders incredulously, "Who the hell is..." about one of the people involved in the story. It's one of his most consistent asides.
One of Simon's writers needs to make a story from a serial killer's victim with all possible reasons and angles covered, all the weird coincidences etc. Then in end reveal to Simon that the person was actually just in a wrong place at wrong time and got killed for no reason, because that definitely happens with serial killers.
I don’t follow the news but I hear there’s something gnarly going on with this fella goes by the name of Sean Combs. The only way I’m going to look into it is if you cover the story. Just sayin’.
That's gonna take a loooooot of research. Stephanie on Rotten Mango is currently coving it. She's up to part 3 of 4, eps are about 2hrs long, and more stuff is still coming to light.
He never does current events on CasCrim. This video about something 12 years ago is about as close as he gets, so that he doesn't have to say "allegedly" so much. I don't expect him to cover Diddy for another 20 or 30 years. It'll be a big hit because all the GenX'rs like me who remember Diddy's whole career will have lots of time to watch it over and over again on our antique iPads in the nursing home. It'll be Simon's last big score before he retires lol.
You do have to wonder what else was overlooked in this case. Did the police check for similar crimes in general? Campers / hikers being ambushed by someone. Did they search Iqbal's emails to her ex-husband (to see if she might've mentioned anything about Saad)?
Something about this episode felt very rushed, like it's sped up or something. Slowing it down to 95% makes it feel more normal... Maybe my brain is broken. XD Other than that, glad to have another Cas Crim. I enjoy the unsolved ones because I always feel like, maybe the video existing will one day help will solving this kind of thing! Simon should do videos on the top ten most wanted or something. Raises awareness of them! Thanks to the writer, editor and of course... The audience. And maybe that guy reading this. =D
The police are coming for Simon for that taser his wife has...only to get there and discover 6 writters and 2 editors in the basement...run fact boy....run😂😂😂😂
As a young child in primary school we went on holidays just outside the regular school holidays because it was much cheaper for flights snd accomodation.
The random murderer theory doesn't make sense. If someone wanted to just murder person/people, how long was he prepared to wait. If it was in a back alley somewhere, maybe but on an isolated road in the mountains??? Great episode. Thanks CasCrim team.😊
First, there is no such thing as unskilled work. Second, the longer a case like this goes unsolved, the more likely it is to have been random. Random attacks are the most difficult to solve because there just is no motive or anything else to connect the victims to the perpetrator.
Simon insisting it seemed like a professional hit because the victims were double tapped, while also suggesting he knows this because that's how it's done in Hollywood is absolutely wild. Bro, you have other channels coving subjects Hollywood always gets wrong and that's in well known professions. TV is not teaching anyone how to be a hitman. Anyway, interesting episode! Really liked the script, Katie. Tragic as always, but glad the kids are safe with family.
Love how Simon is so focused on the "two bullets to the head". If the person was a professional assassin, there would have been more than 2 bullets to the head. Putting multiple bullets, fired in succession, within the width of a hand span, is not difficult at all, even for someone who has never fired a pistol in their life. Maybe it's just living in America, MURICA!!, but I don't see that as pointing in any direction other than the person was familiar with firing that handgun.
44 minutes in so maybe this gets brought up but if the family was the target, wouldn’t the killer know in advance how many people were in the car (since he would have been following them or close by obviously) and/or confirm how many people he needed to “eliminate”? The fact that the other daughter wasn’t shot and hid under her mom makes me think the killer wasn’t after them. Why brutally attack the other daughter and leave the other untouched unless you truly didn’t know there was another person in there in which case that seems like a wild loose end when murdering a family and a random bystander.
I remember the news reports from when this happened! Those poor girls! To think the case hasn't been solved in all these years! Well done writing Katy and excellent as always Simon! For anyone who knows somebody who knows somebody, if there's anything left that might in the remotest contain the slightest amount of DNA evidence, Othram outside of Houton, Texas, might be able to help. They specialize in forensic DNA testing technology and their work is nothing short of miraculous.
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tell them to bring their stuff to europe, im fed up seeing all these influencers tell me how amazing it is just for me to never be able to even buy it
Given your immense power and influence, Simon, can you ask them to make Size 15s? I would love to try them, but they don't make them in my size :(
Kudos to the staff at the caravan park. Calling the police to tell them they were one child short was important!
Very well said ❤️
Those kids 😱🥺 they may be physically recovered, but mentally recovering from such trauma is rough. I hope they have a great support network of loving people around them. 💔🫂
Simon's wildly inconsistent yet very similar pronunciations of Zaed and Saad made me use so much of my brain power for the first half of the episode. Never change Simon, never change.
He changes his pronunciations so indiscriminantly
Was your brain blazing?
The brain was indeed blazing
Oh definitely. I had to work so much harder than I expected to!
Can we take a minute to appreciate how badass these parents were? They managed to successfully protect both their girls so that both survived. Quick thinking in the crisis and courageous. Rest easy knowing your girls are alive and well.
The image of a little girl hiding in the long skirts of her dead mother is heartbreaking
Katie. Hats off for presenting this in a way the audience can speculate throughout the unfolding. It’s been amazing to piece theories as this presented!
Oh, thanks!
@@katywatson4940Simon will beat you if he catches you out of your cage
@@katywatson4940 no thank you!
I was totally engrossed in this story!
What a mental mystery. Wow ...random ?
I would buy an "In my opinion. Allegedly." tshirt
I'd love one saying, "Don't sell your murder helmet," among other random, hilarious, out of context quotes from Simon
I want to give some props to the editor. I never noticed it before because I rarely listen to this with my good headphones on, but the subtle little music cues between sections are always there and they work very well.
I really like the way Katy presented this! Very linear and easy to follow without sacrificing detail and the overall storytelling flow.
Simon could make so much money on merchandise of his quotes.
“Don’t sell your murder helmet” would look great on a shirt, magnetic, sticker, etc. especially a sticker on a motorcycle helmet!
The amount of weird coincidences in this one is wild. Especially the one with the ex husband dying the same day
I wonder if some part of the "suicide pact" theory had some weight? Not that Iqbal had planned anything, but maybe the ex always hoped she'd come back and once he heard that she was dead, he took his own life.
Idk it absolutely could be a coincidence, but without an autopsy there's always the possibility
As a homicide detective, I have to agree with the random shooter situation. The most compelling reason I see is that both sets of victims came to the spot randomly. The biker stated he saw the bike and car with no followers. The victims were in the same spot at the same time. The script said there were 22 casings. That fits with a full magazine plus one round and two additional full magazines. The beating of the daughter was because all of the ammunition was used. The scene, as presented, seems impulsive and disorganized. Leaving a portion of the pistol grip and the amount of shooting, coupled with the beating of the daughter, feels more like a panicked response. This is an interesting case I will be reading more of. Great episode.
Or, heck, it WAS a planned killing… of someone else entirely. If both sets of victims along with at least one witness were lost, why not the killer as well? He goes up a mountain to kill someone entirely different and by the time he realized his mistake, there’s a lot more victims than intended.
i was thinking that if the family was the target the the fact that the cyclist was there might have used more bullets than the killer thought. although this means that he was still short enough for one person, probably the 4 year old who may not have been known about or whom may have been deemed young enough to leave alive (unable to provide proper testimony etc).
I thought of the Texarkana Moonlight Murders.
That's what I was thinking. Sounds like a would-be serial killer getting his feet wet and panicked.
Non US citizens seem to have a difficult time comprehending the possibility of a person killing people they don't know for no reason especially when kids are involved. We are the odd ones that hear these things and don't think random people killing strangers isn't strange at all.
@18:37 Simon: “I sound British because I am British” 😂
Guess I should have given Whistle Boy a pronunciation guide - “Saad” = “Sard”.
Also, the large majority of the French names were completely butchered! 😂🤪🤦🏻♀️
@ at least those remained more or less consistent though 😆
@@katywatson4940 True! 🤪😂
You did fantastic on everything else. I think the people bothered by it can let it slide. Unless you're one of the people bothered by it. At that point, it's kind of a personal issue.
@@RomeoEchoDelta the biggest issue I had was the pronunciation of the two brothers names were so inconsistent and sometimes so similar that I had a hard time telling who was who during the family dispute section of the episode
18:30 I love this moment! 😂
“It’s scary”
“I sound British because I am British but…”
He's just an American actor. He does to even need glasses he wears them to look smart.
@@michaelmayhem350 oh 100%!!
I used to live near Claygate, now I live near Annecy. It was a crazy story all round!
Just watching the full video now, but there were alot of rumours that the brother had something to do with it 🤷♂️
Just watched the full video, it was definitely his brother 😳
That's exactly the sort of thing the real killer would say... :P
"Get to the crime already!" *immediately launches into sponsor block*
Thanks, Katy. A case I've not heard of. I'm glad the girls are with their family.
Using a firearm that old makes perfect sense. If it's that old then there's a good chance that it's not on any registries as being owned by any particular individual - at least not one that's alive. For all intents and purposes it doesn't officially exist and can't be linked to any specific individual outside of any fingerprints left on it, but even then if they aren't on any official record the police wouldn't know where to begin looking for them.
I've got several boom sticks that are old enough to pre-date serial numbers. Like you stated, they don't exist anywhere on paper.
@Noah_E technically you could have a brand new and legal firearm without a serial number if you make it from scratch. The idea of serial numbers for anything other than warrantee purposes is silly anyway. They certainly don't have any affect on public safety.
Absolutely 💯 ✌️
@@SlickWillyTFCFgood way to prove something is yours if it goes missing or gets stolen.
@SEAZNDragon don't let your shit get stolen. 🤷🏻♂️ Also, since it's exceedingly rare for people to manufacture personal firearms, the lack of serial number is almost as good as having one.
Shout out to Decoding the unknown, absolute quality!!!!
I have never heard this story. As an American, I am looking for anything to help
With the anxiety and distract me for the next 6 days . Nothing like a good true crime story to make me feel relaxed and calmed during these days ….
Don’t record your crimes, but Simon claims to have the writers chained up in the basement. This means one of three things!
1) Simon is so bad at crime, he can’t even follow his own rules.
2) Simon is a criminal genius using reverse psychology on us, knowing that we’d have to believe he was an idiot to believe the writers are actually chained up in the basement, keeping his crime undiscovered indefinitely.
3) Simon is following the rules, because the writers aren’t in fact chained up in the basement, but somewhere else, like the attic or something.
But which is it?! The world may never know…
i think it is the first one remember often on this channel the criminals who think they are the smart criminals tend to be pretty stupid
I think the attic is full of editors.
maybe the real attic was the writers we made along the way… 😌
Option 4. They are chained up in the basement but its some weird (non sexual) BDSM thing the authors are into. And there for sense its consensual its not a crime.
They're in a warehouse and on high tensile wire rope leads, no chains.
To back up Whistle Boy on the Vessi shoes. I just walked through a freezing mountain stream while hiking and only the sock above my shoes got wet! My pair is over five years old and they have held up and are fantastic! They are literal torture to break in but after that they are amazing!! ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Can confirm they're amazing. Mine were nice from the start and are still my favorite shoes 1.5 years later. The only (!!) sneaker-like shoes that consistently keep my feet dry (unless it's raining so hard the water is running down my legs).
My next pair will be high enough to cover my ankles as I'm living in an area with considerable snowfall.
Only buy if great on day 1
Good to hear, I've always been sceptical about Vessi as they have one of the largest compensations for advertisers/affiliates.
@@JordyValentine I did not know that (I'm not an influencer so I wouldn't know) and I agree that seems a bit weird. But they're actually pretty good shoes and if it wasn't such a pain to order them (they don't ship to the EU) I'd probably have more pairs already.
I consume this show daily. I hear Simon’s voice at all times. He tells me so many things.
Been digging through your casual criminalist and DTU channels. Thanks for the content (and thanks to ALL the writers)
This is Katies first Casual Criminalist. She normally does DTU so a change of pace for her I enjoy seeing a new David script for CC.
Or for me, a Danny script on Brain Blaze 😅😅😅
@@gennystout8952 I need to dig into that where should I start or go all in binge?
@@rage9715 start wherever....but if you see newer episodes first, you wont see the slow progress where Simon loses his crap a little more each episode 😂😂😂
@@gennystout8952 I found out Kevin writes alot for BB I have something to binge for a while.
As for Menegaldo and his note (thanks yt for making me skirt around the word...), as someone who has dealt with that type of mental health issues before it absolutely makes sense to me that he could have convinced himself that he was a suspect, even though that was obviously not the case.
That was my thought. The Legion is not a nice place and people tend to come out of it "different". I can easily see an ex-soldier with severe PTSD being called in and interrogated by the police becoming paranoid. And with the media circus that was going on at the time, he would likely be reminded of it several times a day. When they're already in a spiral, that kind of thing could lead to it getting worse.
WHISTLE BOY WEDNESDAY
Surely, Whistler Wednesday?
@GIBBO4182 now we're talking
Have some decency you animal! This is a crime channel.We are here to respect the victims,not the reader.
I spy Runescape!
@@LaylaSpellwind ❤️
Sometime, people just snap. A few years ago a young man walked into a local tire shop, shot several people, killing a women that was a customer, and them killed himself. He had no connection to the business, any of the victims and there was no history of mental illness, or signs on social media to indicate his evil intent.
The possibility that this was just a random/serial killing has to be acknowledged.
I agree. It was probably an ex cop that had a power trip or an argument with one of the parties (the family and the cyclist) and ended up killing all witnessess. Given that the cyclist was shot the most, i have the feeling he was the first kill. The family car probably saw the cyclist dead on the floor and pulled over. The killer (being an ex cop) knows very well that any witness would doom him so he ends the job and takes the whole family out. It probably took a little bit too... THe mother probably hid the little girl under the skirt herself. HOWEVER... I find it strange that he had that much ammo on him... If he just snapped and went out to kill people for the heck of it I would imagine that he would target a more populated area. Very mysterious indeed
From the start I thought it just sounded like a random killing. There might have been a racial component, however they looked pretty Western so yeah. Someone might have just snapped.
Yes they had treated him disrespectfully 2 weeks before
Thw mental image of lycra Simon heedlessy filtering through urban traffic with pearl jam sequestered under his cycling helmet has me dying laughing
A dentist? In England? I didn’t know such a thing existed!
Harsh!
Great job Katie 👏 👏 loved this!!!
I was almost certain I had heard this story before on Casual Criminalist, way back near the beginning, but I guess not. The version I heard didn't include the wife's trip to America and the old flame dying on the exact same day, though. That makes an already unusual story even more intriguing.
You're not alone, I swear Simon did a brief segment about this on another channel years ago
😂Hello there!😂 Don’t usually comment but today your hello to TH-cam folks made me laugh…now to finish watching….you are talking shoes right now…lol…Thank you for making me smile. Be safe.
39:13 This is the best cut in this show's history. It's "good"
Finally. Thank you, I’ve been jonesin’.
Hey! I’m in California for the week with a friend while she does a class. I’m walking around the streets of Anaheim listening to Fact Boy and it is awesome ❤
Woooooo I’ve been going through withdrawal !!!
Sooo happy to see a new video! Figured out how I'm gonna spend my evening..with Fact Boi!
I'm not even really paying attention. I'm just here silencing the voices of reason who got me all excited about our elections over the past few months. Thankful for Simon's soothing voice.
The music and credits are a bit quiet, but I actually like it.
We complained like an angry town mob when once there was a new long upload but it was ruined because there was some dreadful hick music on a loop playing very loudly the entire video and ever since then, it's been nearly no background music. The editor is certainly struggling it does seem 😂 o well
@@rebeccasebastian8407 personally I don't want to hear background music. It's distracting and I unsubbed from several of his channels because I couldn't take the incessant dings and swooshes.
23:44 My ex worked with Iraqi expats and they very often went back to Iraq to try and get their old houses back. Most of them only left after the 2002 invasion and they still had very angry squatters and tons of legal work.
0:53 We call that tinnitus, Simon.
I see new CC, I drop what I'm doing
(There's also now a hole in my kitchen floor, but that's not relevant...)
😂😂😂
😂😂😂 I drop everything unless it’s a super long episode, which I will listen to when I should be sleeping. Today I’m listening while I cook dinner
Miss you Simon, thank you Katy and Martyn. Miss you so much Jen. Don't end this era yet.
All his writers are excellent.
Ahh, the old "we might have solved this, if it weren't for you bungling cops"
Blink twice if you need help out the basement, Simon!!
I love your voice. Idk what it is about it, its very listen-to-able. Love your guys' stuff!
I have never stopped thinking about this story since it happened. The random shooter/serial killer theory makes sense to me. This story also shows how messy and filled with coincidences and unexplained decisions normal lives are.
That was a perfect edit. You know what I mean, editor person. Uh-huh.. Take care team. Keep safe.
I like the ones I know nothing about! Great listen so far
Thinking it was a professional human just because of the double tap is a logical fallacy as this has been shown in a lot of entertainment media so any murderer who does not panic might just have done this to obscure the motive for the crime, to make absolutely sure the victims are dead or hell, just because they think are cool like some professional assassin in a movie for doing it.
Also in many shooting sports like IPA double tabs on target are standards for engaging a target. So could just be a trained sports shooter.
Omg I've been dying waiting for the next episode ...... it's like crack for me haha
Theory that nobody brought up which surprised me, since it was the first thing that popped into my head, is that the ex husband died of stress after finding out his ex wife is dead. Perhaps hiring an assassin and then finding out he carried out a hit is waaaaaay more stressful than he anticipated. He could have had regrets, or tried to cancel a hit but it was too late. Perhaps he was scared of the repercussions. Perhaps only after he realised she’s truly dead the reality of what he has done hit him.
Not saying this happened! I’m just saying that as a very anxious person, who often agrees to do something and then very much regrets doing so, this was the first thing I thought about.
The FBI would've dug in to his finances if the authorities in Europe thought that was the case. They could've solved it really quick.
Is CC only every 2 weeks now? Looking forward to this I need my CC fix
I have been watching @The Casual Crimi alist for years. I have to say this one was the most gripping and fascinating one I have seen to date. All the twists and turns and possible outcomes were so plausible and yet so outlandish at the same time. One minute you are thinking it is this person but then your are thinking it is this country but what there more about one of the murder victims that throws everything on its head! Bravo Katie! Your should get a raise AND your own rat free room with a window in the basement!
I used to live in the Alps at that time! it was a HUGE thing! All schools had to get "vigipirate" pamphlets because of that.
1:30 - Chapter 1 - The scene of the crime
2:10 - Mid roll ads
3:15 - Back to the video
8:40 - Chapter 2 - The main characters
9:15 - Chapter 2.1 - Saad al hilli
10:50 - Chapter 2.2 - Iqbal al hilli
11:10 - Chapter 2.3 - Suhaila al allaf
11:30 - Chapter 2.4 - Sylvain mollier
12:10 - Chapter 2.5 - Brett martin
13:05 - Chapter 3 - The investigation starts
20:25 - Chapter 4 - Motives, who was the target and why ?
21:00 - Chapter 4.1 - The al hilli's links with iraq
24:55 - Chapter 4.2 - Saad was a spy
30:10 - Chapter 4.3 - Saad's family dispute
42:40 - Chapter 4.4 - Sylvain mollier's situation
51:30 - Chapter 4.5 - Iqbal secret life
57:55 - Chapter 4.6 - Suhaila's family troubles
1:01:00 - Chapter 5 - The suspects
1:04:20 - Chapter 5.1 - Eric devouassoux
1:05:50 - Chapter 5.2 - Patrice Menegaldo
1:08:30 - Chapter 5.3 - Nordahl lelandais
1:09:45 - Chapter 5.4 - A professional hit squad
1:10:55 - Chapter 5.5 - The mysterious motorcyclist
1:12:30 - Chapter 6 - Did the police bungle this ?
1:18:15 - Chapter 7 - The investigation today
27:00 I’m not sure we can act like he didn’t have any access to sensitive information. As for his job; Surrey Satellite Technology Limited (SSTL) specialise in the design, build, and operation of small satellites. SSTL is known for pioneering low-cost space missions and advancing satellite technology for a range of applications, including Earth observation, navigation, science, and telecommunications. As for him ‘only’ designing a bracket for a coffee machine to be used on the Airbus; SSTL are a subsidiary of Airbus and so however you slice it he was clearly part of the design and/or engineering team at the company. Also Simon is absolutely correct; if you’re going to place someone in a position which gives them access to information you keep them low profile but high enough to access designs for example…sounds like he’d have had decent access. People often don’t realise how important the information they have action is, in the right, or wrong hands.
I gasped multiple times listening to this. This was bloody dark. Need to watch something light and funny before I go to bed 😅
That wave though!!! 😂😂😂😂
Apologies if this has been said already but though rare that manner of serial killing is absolutely possible, Israel Keyes for example. Hide out in a remote area, pick random people...ultimately the motive could have been just to murder.
As soon as Simon said, "The family and the cyclist," I had a massive OH SHIT moment. This case is one of my "favourites," for lack of a less morbid term, for how mysterious it is.
Wonderful script, and great presentation as always. I did want to point out, however, that it seemed like Simon was railroading the story in his mind around it being a professional job.
Thanks Simon. You are the bomb!!❤ from Australia 👋🏻🇦🇺🦘👌
Made my Wednesday!! Never heard of this one.
Oh, I've been waiting for this one...
How many people watch/listen using headphones, and mistake the occasional thump on Simon's table that's picked up by the microphone (not a criticism just a humorous observation!) to a sound in the house! 🤣🤣
I don't have any theories, but I would add five observations:
1) we now know that state actors (Russia, Iran) are hiring biker gangs to kill enemies (see WaPo, WSJ Sept. 2024 reporting)
2) we also know that "professional hits" are sometimes more like "Airquotes" "professional"
3) Saad didn't have to actually be involved in anything suspicious (or not directly) for people in his life (or on the perihery of his life) to think that his politics and job made him dangerous
4) regarding Mollier's not-quite in-laws (I am not accusing them, at all, there's no evidence linking them, but I would have looked at this hard, and perhaps the police did) -- if they disliked him enough, and were upset that will the new baby they were never getting rid of him, that is a motive, actually money at the time aside. I felt that was dismissed a little quickly, even before the additional information about the legionnaire who got twitchy about being interviewed by police.
5) the fact that the car and the cyclist both took wrong turns doesn't change the fact that either could have been tracked.
The idea that this is a purely random crime is fascinating. If it were, I can only imagine the glee the killer must have gotten from the investigation; it makes it unlikely that the killer would not have tried to recreate the experience.
So nice to have the ending music back.
My absolute favorite part of these is when Simon inevitability wonders incredulously, "Who the hell is..." about one of the people involved in the story. It's one of his most consistent asides.
One of Simon's writers needs to make a story from a serial killer's victim with all possible reasons and angles covered, all the weird coincidences etc. Then in end reveal to Simon that the person was actually just in a wrong place at wrong time and got killed for no reason, because that definitely happens with serial killers.
I don't think I've ever heard of this case before! Excellent presentation. I hope it's solved swiftly.
I keep giggling every time Simon mentions the motorcyclist, since I know he's been cleared, lol.
Simon will be Fact boy for Halloween
I don’t follow the news but I hear there’s something gnarly going on with this fella goes by the name of Sean Combs. The only way I’m going to look into it is if you cover the story. Just sayin’.
Simon going to be forever scarred by Diddy
That's gonna take a loooooot of research. Stephanie on Rotten Mango is currently coving it. She's up to part 3 of 4, eps are about 2hrs long, and more stuff is still coming to light.
He never does current events on CasCrim. This video about something 12 years ago is about as close as he gets, so that he doesn't have to say "allegedly" so much. I don't expect him to cover Diddy for another 20 or 30 years. It'll be a big hit because all the GenX'rs like me who remember Diddy's whole career will have lots of time to watch it over and over again on our antique iPads in the nursing home. It'll be Simon's last big score before he retires lol.
@@mule-do6tc He did Epstein as it happened after Eppstein "killed himself".
@mule-do6tc I was genuinely surprised when that Snapchat episode came out because that one was REALLY recent iirc!
I ain't never heard of this one before. A bit it's a mint one 😊
You do have to wonder what else was overlooked in this case. Did the police check for similar crimes in general? Campers / hikers being ambushed by someone. Did they search Iqbal's emails to her ex-husband (to see if she might've mentioned anything about Saad)?
Something about this episode felt very rushed, like it's sped up or something. Slowing it down to 95% makes it feel more normal... Maybe my brain is broken. XD
Other than that, glad to have another Cas Crim. I enjoy the unsolved ones because I always feel like, maybe the video existing will one day help will solving this kind of thing!
Simon should do videos on the top ten most wanted or something. Raises awareness of them!
Thanks to the writer, editor and of course... The audience.
And maybe that guy reading this. =D
The police are coming for Simon for that taser his wife has...only to get there and discover 6 writters and 2 editors in the basement...run fact boy....run😂😂😂😂
As a young child in primary school we went on holidays just outside the regular school holidays because it was much cheaper for flights snd accomodation.
Me talking to the British police: "stand down boys, he said please"
The random murderer theory doesn't make sense. If someone wanted to just murder person/people, how long was he prepared to wait.
If it was in a back alley somewhere, maybe but on an isolated road in the mountains???
Great episode. Thanks CasCrim team.😊
I would love to see the stats on how long after a story is written before FB records it, and then how long it is before its posted.
I was exactly the same way, like nope never heard of that one, then STOP! I do remember that one. It all came flooding back.
A very well-written murder mystery, embellished w Simon's
sarcasm... no need to read Fiction when this is Reality.
As a computer draftsman wanted to add my two cents on his job position. We work with make blueprints for all types of things on the computer
Been waiting on this one happy Halloween ❤
Got this on Halloween! Congrats Simon
First, there is no such thing as unskilled work. Second, the longer a case like this goes unsolved, the more likely it is to have been random. Random attacks are the most difficult to solve because there just is no motive or anything else to connect the victims to the perpetrator.
I can never bring myself to put two earpieces in. It's always just one so I can hear the environment around me
54:12 a missed opportunity for another plug of another one of Simon's channels.
Simon insisting it seemed like a professional hit because the victims were double tapped, while also suggesting he knows this because that's how it's done in Hollywood is absolutely wild. Bro, you have other channels coving subjects Hollywood always gets wrong and that's in well known professions. TV is not teaching anyone how to be a hitman.
Anyway, interesting episode! Really liked the script, Katie. Tragic as always, but glad the kids are safe with family.
The story about the hit squad being busted is a crazy story in itself. Surprised more script time was given explaining it
I think I was running out of the will to live by then. This was a very long script for me!
Love how Simon is so focused on the "two bullets to the head". If the person was a professional assassin, there would have been more than 2 bullets to the head. Putting multiple bullets, fired in succession, within the width of a hand span, is not difficult at all, even for someone who has never fired a pistol in their life. Maybe it's just living in America, MURICA!!, but I don't see that as pointing in any direction other than the person was familiar with firing that handgun.
17:33 Had the same bike, it was not in production 2012 :P keep up the good work Simon
“It’s pretty rare for someone to be all like ‘Oh, nah, I just wanted to murder’.”
Seems pretty normal in the USA.
44 minutes in so maybe this gets brought up but if the family was the target, wouldn’t the killer know in advance how many people were in the car (since he would have been following them or close by obviously) and/or confirm how many people he needed to “eliminate”? The fact that the other daughter wasn’t shot and hid under her mom makes me think the killer wasn’t after them. Why brutally attack the other daughter and leave the other untouched unless you truly didn’t know there was another person in there in which case that seems like a wild loose end when murdering a family and a random bystander.
Simon: I don’t believe it was random.
Also Siomon: [has entire channel full of victims of random chance]
Thanks..
Still hoping for a jack unterweger Episode tho 😊
I remember the news reports from when this happened! Those poor girls! To think the case hasn't been solved in all these years! Well done writing Katy and excellent as always Simon! For anyone who knows somebody who knows somebody, if there's anything left that might in the remotest contain the slightest amount of DNA evidence, Othram outside of Houton, Texas, might be able to help. They specialize in forensic DNA testing technology and their work is nothing short of miraculous.
51:24 It's shite when ye forget the cairds! - Begbie