In all fairness it was a smart move not to put a save spot on the top of Fanatics Tower, imagine if that was your only save spot and you don't have Life 3.
It's funny because when i saw this video in my feed, I was like "I wonder which dungeon out of Phantasy Star II was picked", then watched and saw it get top spot. Totally agree.
Late response, but I just watched the video and it's just a week after I bought the Genesis collection on Steam to play Phantasy Star 2. I've only played 3 and 4 before, but now I know what's coming.
Phantasy Star 2 was my first RPG and I loved it. Still do. Still occasionally play as emulation, but it has become a bit... tedious with extremely limited inventory and such, that I am not quite accustomed to any more these days. Also the need to grind for extra levels to make it through a dungeon is quite high in some places. Another thing is the semi-randomness of stat points (including HP and TP) awarded per level up. So if you are lucky you end up with a character that is average level 6 but with HP, TP and average stats of level 8 or you cound be unlucky and be the equivalent of level 4. Luckily often low HP gain is offset by higher defense gain. Still, for those perfectionists, safe before level up and try again. Unfortunatelly saving can only be done in towns or with a special item that the last character to joim your party can "aquire" from a certain place as soon as she is level 10. That however will not happen after about 1/4 of the game. It is a challenging RPG especially in late game dungeons when they get more elaborate and multi floored the farther you progress in the game. Unlike other Phantasy Star games, Phantasy Star 2 does not have a common potion or item to replenish TP, so every tech you cast has to be carefully weighted. Have Escapipe and Telepipe ready. And if you can wear magic gear to heal and maybe even attack to conserve TP. Magic gear does not break and especially the healing ones are extremely usefull in battles. They do not work outside of battles, however. And yeah, Green Dam is a biatch, even with Kain in your party, because of his low TP. Rolf, Rudo, Kain and Amy are my main team thorough all dams, as Anna, Hugh and Shir are useless as f* against the enemies. Dams are also were you find the first gears that have a permanent tech spell. Final boss of the game should only be approched at highest level with inventory full of Stardust. The end is a bit... underwhelming. Phantasy Star 4 is the most elaborate and the easiest of the original series. Never had any problem there as long as I leveled up correctly and had the right party members.
Fanatic's tower is easy 1. Have Mog in your party, a person with berserk effect (e.g. Umaro), and a person with Life 3 2. Equip Moogle Charm. 3. profit.
Umaro wreaked the tower in the original game, but apparently most re-releases gave all the tower's enemies max defense, so it doesn't really work any more.
Don't even need Life 3. Cast Berserk on boss so he only uses his weak physical attacks, then use Rasp/Osmose on boss. When he runs out of MP he will attempt to cast Ultima, fail because 0MP, then die. Yes, it's longer, but Berserk, Rasp, and Osmose spells don't require you to have gone through Phoenix Cave first
Here’s a really good runner up for number 1. The world of sloth: Shin Megami Tensei IF. It’s a dungeon based off of the deadly sin of sloth and so the gimmick reflects it. In this dungeon high school students are forced to dig tunnels into stone so that you can pass. In order to get through you have to wait for the tunnels to be finished in REAL TIME. In the game there is a moon shape system which affects your ability to run from battles. The shapes change about every 5 battles with it taking around 30 battles to complete a full cycle. In the world of sloth the moon shape system simulates time passing. The problem? THERE’S ABOUT 20 TUNNELS YOU HAVE TO GET THROUGH. Battles take at least 5 minutes each if you aren’t equipped with the highest level demons at the time. The enemy’s are fairly high level in this dungeon meaning battles take even longer. It takes a entire moon cycle for a tunnel to be fully dug. Every tunnel is one after another with no way to have two dug at once. You see the problem? This entire dungeon takes around 4 ENTIRE HOURS ON NORMAL SPEED. ON 2X SPEED IT’S 2 HOURS. HOW DID THIS NOT MAKE THE LIST?
I've gotta disagree with the FFIV one. You said earlier that you like dungeons that challenged you to just not mash fight command, then decry this one for doing just that. Sealed cave was much more annoying than this or tower of zot. FFVI slight disagreement. Not on the dungeon, you nailed that critique. Magi Master can also be neutralized by rasp, a spell you've had access to since the IMF. And in a magic only tower, damaging MP is definitely a realistic tactic for the final boss. Yes, I know he has an absurd amount of MP, but you don't HAVE to use life 3.
You can also use Palidoor at the end as long as he dies before everybody lands. I think his grievance with sealed cave is fair, considering all Cecil and Cid can DO is fight, aside from some terrible white magic. You get to have Yang and Tellah with his staggering 90mp that never increases. It's so bad, it's the only place where I just run from everything.
It's been a while (20 yrs) but I'm pretty sure you can use the Jump ability to survive that boss in FF6. Edit: I forgot you can only use magic, though Jump may still work. It's been a long time. I need to replay that game.
I always felt the lodestone cavern in FFIV was meant to just have you run and survive through until you get to the boss. The real challenge of that dungeon is surviving and beating the boss with crappy gear. Now the trap door cave ... that's the worst imo
Killing him with rasp is incredibly slow, I'm not sure if he has more mp than hp but with how little mp rasp removes it's hard to imagine that's the intended method.
@@Seegtease That's what I always did there. Your party was just so ill-equipped to deal with that mechanic that running from every fight and going through Cure1 potions like water was your best bet. Tellah's MP was never going to last more than a few fights, so why even try there?
I would have added in the Cave of Trial leading to Vane in the original Sega CD version of Lunar: Silver Star. Not only are you forced to play as Alex *alone*, but the vast majority of monsters within the cave are only vulnerable to magic. Personally, I love magic and mages (Red Mages are my personal faves from the FF series, followed by Black, White, and Time Mages, interchangeably) and would have loved something like this normally, but what makes this cavern extremely difficult is that Alex has only JUST learned his first spell (as part of the plot) right before you have to head to Vane. The cave is difficult enough on its own - especially the second half, which sports some enemies not seen in the first - but the semi-surprise boss that hits like a jackhammer (I think it attacks 4 times or something ridiculous for that part of the game) will absolutely destroy you unless Alex has learned his first multi-target, higher-damage spell (Flamer). Also, note that Sword Skills weren't a thing in the original version with the exception of Kyle, so Alex also lacked what would become his most damaging low-cost attacks. Yeah... rough. I remember my first time playing through the game way back being stuck in the cave having to level-grind until I was able to make the trek, but the only saving grace is that they have a character by the entrance who fully heals Alex's HP and MP for free. Of course, having suffered through that, when I made it to the Cave of Trial in the PS1 Silver Star Story Complete version and saw that Luna actually sticks around to help, I was like "Well, this is going to be a cakewalk in comparison!" The fact that Alex's Sword Dance counted as magic in terms of damage potential also made it a bit too easy. Ah well... After that, I think Althena's Tower was the only other dungeon I found somewhat annoying because of how efficiently the enemies there can sap your resources regardless of how strong the party is, but it leads to one of the best scenes (and twists) in the game, so it can be forgiven. Related Note: I remember that Robotrek dungeon. I blocked it out of my memory for a reason. Thanks for reminding me why I haven't revisited that game in two decades. :)
It takes a while, but the best way to beat the boss at the top of the fanatic's tower in FF6 is to cast berserk on him and then use nothing but rasp (and osmose) until he runs out of MP. When his MP gets to 0, he will try to cast ultima, fail, and die.
@@guilhermegmoreir Yeah, supposedly Ultima Weapon on the floating continent will also die if you get its MP to zero, but I've never seen it happen. It's much simpler to just kill it the conventional way...
TBH I didn’t even have Life 3 when I fought the Magi Master. I just berserked him, made my party invisible so he couldn’t hurt me at all, and then proceeded to use Osmose to sap his HP. Then when he reaches the end of his MP, he just self-destructs and couldn’t use Ultima because he ran out of MP…
I actually appreciated the design choice for Infinity in Breath of Fire 2. I remember the game feeling increasingly desperate towards the end and that dungeon really drives home that sense of Despair that was such an embedded part of the Deathevn's plot. It made the end of BoF2 surprisingly immersive for a game from that era.
To be fair, they did put a town below and several save points in the lower part. I agree though, there was something unique and special about going all that distance under the mountain and wow a town. There wasn't a boss fight, so it didn't need a save. It just makes you grind, which you need anyway.
Man oh man. I was wondering when Phantasy Star 2 would come up on the list, and I'm not surprised it made #1. Like, my nostalgia goggles for this game are huge, but I'm not above admitting that these dungeons were fiendish. And practically each one of them has something unique about it that makes it so hellish. Heck, even if the traversal of them wasn't hard enough, some of them are even pretty much impossible to find the entrance to without either a guide or copious exploring in the first place. Like, the first time I played this game I borrowed it off a friend, and I didn't have the guide book to go with it, so to this day I still have no idea how I managed to find the Oputa tower that holds the Dam's four keycards, let alone work out that I was supposed to use an otherwise completely useless technique to avert the keyboard trap. Then there's Uzo Island, which looks completely inconspicuous from the world map and has the red-herring Maruera Tree puzzle, and the Crevice to Esper Mansion, which I got stuck on in my first playthrough, because I didn't even know what to look for, and never noticed where the entrance even was because HOW the hell was I supposed to know there's actually a passageway INTO the giant dark death pit? Then of course there's Roron, where if you don't start out by literally walking out of bounds into a completely different hidden entrance of the dungeon you never get anywhere worthwhile, Skure Spaceport, which you'll be traversing every time you come back from Mota, since there's no way to teleport to any of the Dezo towns directly on arrival... The less said about the four Dams the better, and then... the quest for the Nei Equipment. Hoo boy. Putting Ikuto for top pick, I'm totally feeling you there, man. On my most recent playthrough of PSII, this is probably the place where my heart sank the most. It's... just.... so... aggravatingly SLOW to slog through this dungeon. I mean, honestly, all four of the Dezo dungeons are (Shoutouts to Guaron and all of its 17 floors), but it takes a special kind of evil to build an entire dungeon around the concept of one-way pitfalls.
Phantasy Star 2 was definitely a difficult game, especially without the guide. I played the game not long after it was released by renting it. The place I rented it from had 3 days rentals. All I got with the game was the map insert and that's it. I rented it 2 more times before I finally finished it. I had to create my own maps and explore everything. I had a lot more patience back then :) The pitfalls were definitely troublesome to say the least.
Those of you who actually managed to beat Phantasy Star 2 are brave. I couldn't take it anymore after Neifirst - she was the final boss for me. Even though I have a huge soft spot for the game's soundtrack and I love its in-game world, the endless level grinding and absurd complexity of the dungeons just eats away at your soul after a while. Many dungeons from the first PS game could make it onto one of these lists too imo.
Ugh...Phantasy Star 2...man oh man that was tough. I used the guide that came with the game and I still got lost if I didn't pay attention what connected to what. I want to say you at least will have the green dam/blue dam and Climator. But really almost all of them can be a nightmare. With that said...I still love the game :)
Well I only chose one from each game, and it was the one that gave me the most trouble, though to be honest I could’ve filled the entire list with nothing but Phantasy Star 2 dungeons.
I used the guide to as a kid but didn't understand that the direction that the triangles which represented elevators pointed actually indicated whether they took you up or down in the dungeon. Somehow I still managed to get through Ikuto. I couldn't imagine playing that game without a guide, that would just be cruel and unusual punishment.
@@davidvinc Wow, Ikuto...yeah that deserves a spot. If it wasn't for the guide...and my brother jumping through every pit and marking on the map where it leads you (he played it before me) I would have hated it as well.
@@davidvinc I was so excited when I first started playing the game, interesting storyline, awesome music, but then I couldn't even get past the first dungeon!!! So crestfallen after that and gave up haha. Always wondered about that game and what I missed though.
I’ve played my fair share of annoying dungeons in SNES RPGs, but only one has ever made me put a game down entirely. That would be Dragon Mountain from Lufia 2, a game that I had really enjoyed, up until I reached that point. All it took was that one stupid puzzle with the grass and the fire arrows to make me turn the game off, and never look back.
For me, the worst part of the whole Arus Cave dungeon was simply me misunderstanding things. I was ten back when I first played Lufia 1 and had a lot less patience and rational thinking. For so long, I simply did not know there was even another cave entrance outside. I just kept wandering around like an idiot thinking there was something else I needed to do, and then kept going back to the castle again to talk to Piron thinking I misunderstood him with the whole, "We'll get the tools ready" dialogue or that something would change somehow by talking to him again and it just frustrated me to no end. I fought in the cave so long that Lufia even learned Thunder, I think.
So just as a little note, every creature in the Fanatic's Tower will die if it runs out of MP, meaning you can use Rasp and Osmose against the final boss as a method of killing it. Not only does it have far less MP than HP, but as an added bonus, once you do kill it in this way, it won't have the MP available to kill the party with Ultima, making Life3 not a mandatory spell. Hope that helps if you ever want to run the dungeon again :)
Actually, there is a very easy way to beat the Loadstone Cavern AND kill the boss. In the town near the cavern you can purchase wooden weapons, they are only slightly less effective than the weapons you already have; also remember that the magnetic field has no effect Yang's claws. Once you reach the boss and it becomes clear that you have no chance of beating him with wooden swords and such...usually after he transforms--this plays out as dialogue after all but one of your party members dies. Edward, the Bard, struggles from a bed he's recovering in--I believe he was wounded or something in a prior battle--and crawls to his harp...if you have an item called The Twin Harp equipped on one of your characters it begin to echo the music Edward plays back in town on its own, the music negates the magnetic field and you can then re-equip your party with your REAL weapons and open up a can of whoop-ass on that boss.
He did mention that you can use weapons from earlier, but you still need to go back and actually get those weaker weapons if you weren't carrying them already
And if you have someone with an iron item they are just paralyzed. It doesn't kill your whole party in the least. The only way that would be guaranteed is if ALL your party had mettle weapons on. If even one person didn't you could just run and run out of the cave. Also, "the long trek to the black chocobo forest takes about 2 minutes."
@@thedude5295 No the silver weapons count as metalic so you cant use them. The cavern is that bad though as you can just use Tellah's debuffs to cripple the enemies and have Yang and Cid bash them down, basically make Cecil into a white mage and your fine....just make sure you got the twin harp from Edward
Hold on, didn't Lufia 2 have a dungeon that had 100 floors that started you at lvl 1 regardless of your strength upon reaching? No saves, if you left you could only keep certain weapons/armor/items from specific chest found within and if you restarted, you'd be right back at lvl 1. That blew my mind at the time.
@@dougphisig i still love that game...so much replay value...oh the joys of cheating your ass through but still needing to find all dragon eggs 4 times before you can fight the egg dragon....or cheating egg sword and max stats in the ancient cave!!!!
You forgot about all the floors being randomly generated every time you enter. And the Iris treasures... Don't get me started on the Iris Treasures. I collected all of them on the original cartridge I had when I was a kid, but the battery died. I am working on collecting them again on my SNES Mini. Lufia II remains one of my favorite games today entirely because of this dungeon.
Neat video. I was going to comment something snarky like "You could've just made this list all Phantasy Star II dungeons", but then I get to the end of the video and see that you already have it covered. XD
I gotta say I didn't think the Lodestone Cavern was all that bad. In later iterations (after the DS, Complete Collection and such) I worked my way around the constraints with different gear, but when I was younger, like almost 25 years ago I simply said screw it, bulked up except for Yang and then ran from every battle until I reached the boss.
I'm just recently playing it, but Romancing Saga is quite nasty with the dungeons. It gets salvaged though by the fact that you can save everywhere and most dungeons have an easy exit. But good lord, they're infested by tons of enemies, battles scale with you but they have quite a lot of randomness (at least once per dungeon you die in a regular random encounter against a single enemy that just decides to one-shot all your SIX characters). Then dungeons tend to be just floors with rooms spiraling around, also all places are huge. Most treasures are gold, your max gold is 9999 and each battle gives around 100gp. At the end of the first floor you max the gold. Hence 98% chests are useless. I love this game but it sure does have some nasty design.
omg....somebody else remembers Robotrek! god I loved that game as a kid...wish we could get at least a virtual console type port of it.....I don't think it's ever seen a re-release ( come on Square Enix....bring back this obscure classic )
It was only published by Enix (they weren't Square Enix yet), it was created by a company called Quintet. Best known for Actraiser and Soulblazer/Illusion of Gaia/Terranigma. And it's not surprising that it's faded into obscurity; wikipedia says that Robotrek only sold about 65,000 units between USA and Japan. It was a fun little game though.
I loved it when it came out, but I don't think it aged very well. I've tried several times to play it again over the years and I just can't get back into it. Same thing with me for Earthbound too.
I had it on console as a kid too. And wouldn't ya know it, the exact dungeon mentioned in this video is the reason I never beat it. Such an unintuitive slog.
I didn't mind the FF4 Magnetic Cavern. Considering all of your characters really were just attackers except for Tellah, it's nice that the developers found a way to make the dungeon more interesting. At least the shops let you buy items to help you, and Cecil's damage with a bow was pretty good - especially against the flying enemies that were placed in that dungeon on purpose. Yang's and Cid's damage also didn't depend on magnetic items either, so it wasn't really that much of a restriction.
My "worst Dungeon" experience was in Chrono Trigger in Death Peak. Not because it was difficult, I was just too dumb as a kid to figure out how to hide behind the tree from the wind at the beginning...
Most of these issues aren't a problem. I don't like casual baby's first JRPGs where I just spam attack and only resort to winning parts of the game is grinding. I like being handicapped, I like stragety, I actually like trial and error from time to time, that feeling when you've messed up in a long dungeon because of op enemy set ups is crushing but it makes that victory so much more satisfying. Not saying that all jrpgs and all their dungeons should require too much effort or be super hard. But once in a while or quite a common thing it's a good change. But I will admit that games with dead ends with possible no way to fix it and the phantasy star 2 dungeons are a pain in the ass. What do you think about the other Phantasy Star games and Shining in the Darkness?
This is a great list. A couple of notes: 1. In the Mu entry, I think you omitted the worst part. The Vampire at the end is really hard and gave me fits when I was first playing through the game. 2. I haven't played Tales of Phantasia in a long time, but I think the Treant Forest is the one that has basilisks in it. If so, it gets my vote easily, because not only is it long, but if you aren't careful, your entire team turns to stone and it;s an insta game over. 3. Have you ever played Arcana on the SNES? Because my #1 is the Ice Cave. That place is sadistic. It's long, there's no map for parts you haven't explored. It all looks the same, and worst of all there's a choice of 4 different paths you can follow, 3 of the 4 are very long, but only is actually the correct path. That's right, if you go down the wrong path, you will play forever and not know you went the wrong way. Oh and the random encounter rate is nuts. I actually fell asleep twice trying to traverse this hellscape.
When I was a kid I feel like I breezed through stuff like this but I lack the patience at this life juncture haha. I cheat with the internet for help sometimes because I kinda already proved myself in the past.
All difficult dungeons..but phantasy star two was an entire game full of dungeons made to make you cry...goddamned difficult even with a hint book..good luck if you didn't have one..days before internet where you were on your own...also I challenge anyone with the time to re visit shining in the darkness...the last few dungeons are just ridiculous...also this may not qualify here but baya Malaya tower in phantasy star one...OMG...in a game way before Internet or strategy guides...a game where there is no item or spell that could completely heal a character...no in game map..o.p enemies...just insanely hard for its time...but yeah..most final fantasy games were mostly cake with maybe one hard part. Phantasy star two is the champ of difficulty...
Like this page and what I do here? Consider supporting me on patreon! www.patreon.com/davidvinc [0:44] - 10) Cave to Arus - Lufia: And the Fortress of Doom [1:30] - 9) Tower of Fanatics - Final Fantasy 6 [2:28] - 8) Bucca Island Cave - Seiken Densetsu 3 [3:18] - 7) Lodestone Cavern - Final Fantasy 4 [4:16] - 6) Moria Gallery - Tales of Phantasia [5:04] - 5) Infinity - Breath of Fire 2 [5:52] - 4) Mu - Illusion of Gaia [6:37] - 3) Temple of Ys/Solomon - Ys Books 1 & 2 [7:25] - 2) South Island Fortress - Robotrek [8:32] - 1) Ikuto - Phantasy Star 2
Hello, this was a premiere video and I live chatted with everyone when it first came out. If you would like to read that please click on "show chat replay" in the upper right hand corner. I hope you enjoy the video!
A lot of issues for one illusion of Gaia isn’t a jrpg it’s the same category as Zelda action adventure 2. You y’all about robotrek as if you have discovered some secret in gaming widely known game I highly doubt you played around release time I think you have been watching snesdrunk videos and trying to act like you played them when they where relevant.
Yeah totally agree phantasy star 2 is easily one of the hardest games with out the maps. Even with them it can take forever. Up to The biolab isn't to bad but pretty much from the dams on. Even getting the the leaf for the gum..... Not only that the pace they walk around makes it feel like forever and the encounter rate....lol. Imo easily one of the hardest rpgs ever.
I agree that Phantasy Star II could've been all 10 spots on this list. The game is impossible without a map, and if you didn't have the hint book you'd have to make one yourself.
One choice that easily would've been on there was either the waterfall cave or the forest in Secret of Evermore. Both of those places are very confusing and extremely easy to get lost in without a map and are much more challenging than the Fanatics Tower. The Ivor Tower sewer system can be a pain, too.
I have just beaten Ys 1 on the sega master system. In just two days. Although, I played the patch that reverts the names, to match that of the pc versions.
final fantasy 4 that lodestone cavern. Apparantly all staves are considered non-metallic so give Cecil a mithril /silver staff and he can bludgeon things to death. Before I found this out I really came to appreciate Rosa's Aim ability. Using the fight command with a bow was like being blind.
I generally just stripped all gear and ran through the entire dungeon, doing the leveling over by Silveria. You get gear back for the Dark Dragon fight, so there's no real need to buy non-metal gear just for this dungeon.
Phantasy star Two, the whole game As a kid, I got to the first dungeon, wandered around blindly gained a lot of experiance, make no progress, finally end up frustrated and turn it off. I still haven't beaten it, but I have made some progress using maps on the PS2 collection version.
I wouldn't argue with you on the PS2 dungeon, except to say that Uzo Island (where you get the leaf to make the gum) probably takes it for me. Or maybe climatrol: brutally long dungeon with a hard boss at the end you have to fight with only 3 people.
On that note (first time I tackle PS2 by the way) ....should I unequip Nei and sell everything she has since.... Well... Spoiler alert ..? Should I let her die fast so I don't waste my time with her?
@@kinorai yeah, but you can wait right before the fight to do it. she's still useful in the dungeon. the boss fight doesn't start until you talk to her, so just give all nei's expensive stuff to someone else first.
I actually really liked the Temple of Solomon at the end of Ys book II. The vast size made it feel epic. I admit though that it would have been nice to at least get something at the end of those deadends.
I loved the Bucca Island Cave! Especially the background music. It's a great place to grind, if you do it by the gold statue located just before where you reach all the branching paths. I can usually get my characters up to level 16/17 here without much trouble, making them able to the class change in the ice fields..
Thing about Fanatic's tower, as dull as the loop seems it's like that on purpose. It's designed to make you feel like you're not getting anywhere so you have no idea where you are or how much further you need to go - it's a hopeless feeling that may make you want to quit and not get the treasures the tower holds. Gau can use his Rage's in the tower and Rhinox casts Life 3 so, that. Casting Berserk or equipping Berserk Ring on an ally will allow them to attack physically - great with Fixed Dice, Ultima Weapon or Illumina and slaughtering the enemies. In the original version you if you cast Vanish on an enemy Doom & X-Zone cannot miss (even against Instant Death immune bosses) Also Life 3 is not hard to get. With Phoenix esper just kill Cactaurs & Land Worms in the desert at 5 & 10 M-EXP per fight. No more than 20 quick fights and no less than 10. Do this with Cursed Shield on to multitask breaking it into Paladin Shield.
Interesting choices. I have some small additons I hated the dragon mountain in Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals. It is mostly not the dungeon itself, it is the grass puzzle. Back in the day i wasn't able to beat it, despite having the strategy guide. The strategy guide was utterly useless, similar to Final Fantasy IX. Then there is the dark forest in Secret of Evermore. It was mostly trial and error to get to the end. I guess it is not that bad in retrospect. Lastly the Hell Gate in Tactics Ogre. 100 floors and you have to beat them at least twice in the PSP version. The place is full of undead enemies, which resurrect after 3 turns.
Chris Inger The forest in Secret of Evermore is fucking ridiculous. Also don't know if it really counts, but the desert you have to cross that goes on forever is so painful all while being chased by endless amounts of killer tumbleweed
I mistakenly posted this on the Playstation video: How about that one dungeon in the first Breath of Fire? I can't remember if it's the very last or like 2nd or 3rd last. But basically it's a maze where everything looks the same. To make matters worse, the whole screen rotates every several steps, combined with the random encounters, you're going to get lost/discombobulated/forget where you have already walked. I spent literal hours as a kid trying to finish it!
The dungeons in Phantasy Star 2 were pretty bad after the 4 Dams you had to open. The dev's knew this and included a full strategy guide with the game that had detailed maps of every dungeon.
That game wasn't 'too' bad so long as you had the guide. I'm not sure I could make it through it now without it. At least Sword of Vermilion isn't that hard without the guide.
How about: Basically every single dungeon in Sword of Vermillion. They all look EXACTLY the same, your minuscule inventory is extremely frustrating especially before you can buy Lanterns and have to rely on short-lasting candles to light up the cave at all, and honestly, the game itself kinda sucks so it just becomes an exercise in frustration. :(
I was always a Phantasy Star kid growing up, but I agree with Ikuto. Luckily, the game comes with a "hint book" with maps, but even then. The slow pace + hard enemies + annoying traps (not to mention the walk to actually get there) is terrible!
would disagree with honorable mention Karnak in FF5, it's a dungeon that goes by in a very quick pace, messes with your expectations and features actual choice between getting many elixirs and awesome gear rather than just being a standard dungeon. Ghido's cave is worse in that game.
Karnak also varies depending on whether you're trying to get the brave blade or the chicken knife. If you are after the chicken knife, then it is a good place to build up runs from battle while collecting great even endgame treasure. If you're after the brave blade then it's somehow a slog that you have to do quickly in order to get the important treasure.
Lufia's Arus Cave: Hey. They have MIMICS in that cave. I like the extra trips through that cave, because a few mimic kills gives you a TON of XP which makes the game smoother. FF6's Fanatics Tower: Or, you could simply put Mog in the group and wear the Moogle Charm and be done with the place in 5 minutes. The stairs are boring, I will give you that. FF4's Magnetic Cavern: Just unequip the characters, leave them naked and hold L+R on every battle. The only annoying thing about this cave are the freaking bats and their bloodsuck animation takes FOREVER in the original versions of the game. Same beef I have against the Sealed Cave which features the same annoying ass enemies but in larger groups of them so you wait even longer. As for the end boss, I always did some grinding in the forest near Troia enough to buy the armor from that island that sells all the mythril gear. By the time you get enough gold to buy that, your group should have 900-1100HP on your party members except Tellah and the boss's piddly 250s can barely scratch you. BoF2: Yeah, but I love the awesome weapons laying around everywhere, though. It's difficult, annoying, but rewarding. IoG: Yeah, I HATE Mu with a purple passion. Robotrek: The dungeon is mildly annoying, BUT, one of THE best items in the game is found here as a rare drop, the Empty Pack (from the lion enemies). You can make a Solar Pack out of that, and that item is ludicrously awesome. It gives your robots regen. So, because of that absurdly good item, I look forward to arriving here and killing those lions until I get 1-2 empty packs. If anything, I hate that stupid base where you have to use the item to go inside the computer, worse. That place is more confusing, the enemies are way harder than anything else you've fought, but they give you such small amounts of data that it feels unrewarding to actually kill them and they are nearly impossible to avoid because of tiny hallways.
Thank goodness at least Phantasy Star IV was fantastic. Too bad they all couldn't be classics together. What the hell were they thinking with PSII, what dreadful design. I doubt they even played it themselves, pitifully kill my self slow walking speed, horrible encounter rate plus high difficulty. I'm convinced they didn't play the game.
Yeah. PhSII is MASSIVELY overrated for me. The dungeons have absolutely horrible level design. Combine that with slow speed and it's easy to get lost for stupid reasons. They even had to release a guide to be packaged for the game.
#9) If the fights here are giving you so much trouble, come back here after you get Mog and the Moogle Charm, and then loot the place- as long as you don't go all the way up, you won't invoke the Magic Master fight, so you can grab everything short of that and come back after you've ground out Life 3 on a few characters. It's not that hard. #7) I actually used to think this was a terrible place, but now I recognize it for what it is- a primo forced-levelling spot! That's the whole thing- yes, the enemies are hitting harder because you're in worse gear- but now, well, you go in, you grind up, and then suddenly you're of level to continue the story. #5) It's this convoluted because it's the final area of the game. Once you enter it, you're not supposed to come back up out of it, but stay in Dologany and use it as a base to explore and grind from for the final battle against Barubary and Deathevan. You can, if you want or need to go and resupply from hunting, but the trek from and back to there isn't much worth it. If you're getting your butt kicked in the top part, stay and resupply in Gate and the overworld until you can push to Dologany. It's not hard to see, you know... #4) Mu is another genius dungeon. Yes, it is by all admission a pain in the ass, but if you know how to deal with it, then you can take it section by section. Find the first statue, return it to the shrine, drain the water. Locate the Psycho Slider. Locate the second statue in the areas you can explore now that the second level is open. Locate the two Rama statues, and proceed to the boss fight as Freedan. Learn the paths and how the maps link up and you will clear this place in no time flat. There's nothing wrong with retreating to a Dark Space if things go south for you. #2) It's called a storyline. You go to the island because the people from Rococo keep vanishing after winning vacations there. Granted, they could have made it a little shorter, but considering this is the third big dungeon complex in the game out of seven (River Cave, Haunted Mansion, Volcano Base, Rococo Sewers/City Hall, Hacker HQ, Past River Cave, Hacker Space Fortress), well... what did you expect? The original first run is to get you used to the mechanics- that's why you only get bounced to the start if you're caught. The other times, it shows if you get caught, you get whacked pretty hard.
Those are mostly pretty good picks, but one area comes to mind for me more than any other, and that's the maze forest in secret of evermore. I'm not sure if it would be as difficult now, but as a child I remember being stuck there for literal days. It was hell.
I eventually just sat down and drew a map, screen by screen. This is a great game. I added it to the SNES Mini and played through it not too long ago. It's still fun :-)
If I remember correctly, everytime there is a branching path, you have to go where there is a bird on a branch. These were actually waypointers. Of course, I didn't know this as a kid and ended up drawing a map too.
The Cultist Tower in FFVI can be cheesed by using Mog's Molulu Charm to prevent ALL encounters. So all you need to do is walk up the endless staircase and get all the loot and fight the dragon on the way up. The only fights are the Holy Dungeon and MagiMaster. And what's your reward, a relic that lets you double cast spells... yay
wow, the classic bridge building arc in Lufia. I honestly forgot about that. I was going to say the 3 colored towers, but no you are right. the cave to arus was way more tedious.
I liked that dungeon in FF4. I like that the game challenged you use weaker equipment, and I never found it overwhelming. If I could add a dungeon it would be the one one late in BOF where you couldn't see where you you were walking. I forget what it was called, but twenty years later I can still remember how frustrating it was. Great list though, every time I watch one of these vids I get a irresistible urge to replay one of those great games!
In Breath of Fire 2 I always thought the worse dungeon was killing all the fatty demons. My first time through I did not realize there was no actually end and you had to simply clear out “random” fights until it ended. I walked in circles for hours, becoming so frustrated with it. Even now when I know how to effectively complete this dungeon it still makes me cringe (and I love bof2 so still play it despite this annoying dungeon)
2:28 i actually grinded up (in Spear girl's castle) to Level 18 and Class Change me party, before coming to this cave. Funny thing is , that if class changed , then reached to the Ghost Ship, if a class changed member is cursed. Their 2nd class model changes back to thier Beginning Class, until Ghost Ship is cleared. nothing much but kinda funny.
I've been playing the Phantasy Star 2 port for GBA and I agree with the dungeons being confusing (especially without a guide). Even the first one kicked my butt a few times because of those blasters. Ikuto actually wasn't that bad for me though. Whenever I fell to the bottom I used hinas to teleport back to the entrance and try again.
You forgot the worst part about breath of fire 2's final dungeon: at the very end of the dungeon, there is a cutscene. If you had A character morph into another form, he gets unmorphed here. So I had to traverse this nightmare 3 times. first to get to the cutscene, then back up, to remorph my chars, then back down. And even with all this grinding the final boss was tough as bloody nails.
I going to have to agree with Mu in illusion of gaia considering not just that but also finding the statue of hope is a puzzle itself. It's not that bad for the first one if you paid close attention to the hint. but for the second one yeah most players can have trouble with that without a walkthrough for it. Most hateful dungeon for me is tie between Final Fantasy Mystic Quest Ice Pyramid or the Lava Dome dungeon. So long for both, and the former has invisible enemies till you find the magic mirror in that same dungeon.
no 7th saga or Paladin quest dungeon? all of them sucks ahahahaha. I passed the breath of fire 2 final dungeon w/ Nina "banish" skill that can make enemy runs which make it very easy to pass
Did not like Lodestone Cavern in FFIV. That is, until Edward's music undoes the magnetic field. Then quickly reequip your party with the best gear, keep the Mythgraven Blade on Cecil as the boss is weak to Holy elemental. The problem is getting to the boss, rather than beating the boss.
Tales of Phantasia had WAY worse dungeons than the Moria Mines! The jungle dungeon was annoying as all hell with the monsters that could turn you to stone. The optional Thor re-entry (Thor is itself a terribly designed dungeon) was also annoying too. The optional final dungeon was also a slog with you just running across a dozen bridges as monsters far stronger than anything else in the game ripped you to shreds.
The only thing that bothered me in BoF2 was that Sven lost his ability to reach across gaps in his evolved form(even though its arms were just as long, if not longer). It was possible to have a full party of evolved characters, but not if you wanted to be able to cross gaps. I seem to recall a non-optional gap you had to cross to even reach the town before this dungeon, too, so you couldn't even get *to* the dungeon with an evolved Sven. Seems like bad design to me, in an otherwise pretty great game. Gonna have to disagree with FF4 and Robotrek, though. I never found Lodestone Cave particularly difficult, and I've played the original and like 3 different re-releases. They even give you back your good equipment when the boss fight gets to the difficult part. And all that stuff you mentioned was what made me *love* that part of Robotrek! The absurd way the guards treat you. The mouse transformation. It was so insane and I loved it.
I just played the entire lodestone Cavern section in Final Fantasy IV/II today, and honestly it wasn't that bad. Of course, that was mainly because it had gotten hyped up so much that I was able to prepare myself for it and collect all the equipment needed for it as I went through the previous sections of the game. The main thing though was that I got Cecil and Yang to level 33 and Cid to 28 or 29 so I went beyond the levels seen in a Let's Play I've been using as a guide. Even the boss while not easy I had no serious problems because I was able to use Tellah to keep everybody alive so in my opinion it was the easiest boss so far. I came closer to game overs fighting the first 2 elemental emperors/fiends than I did there. I didn't mind the Tower of Fanatics though, I had a strategy guide that warned me against that cheap TPKO trick so I came in prepared for it.
I remember playing (and hating) the Tower of Fanatics years ago. I had no idea about using the Life3 spell, and I didn’t have it. But I found a different, but extremely slow, way of beating the MagiMaster: have your party cast Osmose on him continuously. After about 30-45 minutes, he’ll run out of MP and POP! He’ll disappear without casting Ultima and destroying your party!
Maybe it was because I was just a kid, but Breath of Fire 1 had a dungeon I hated. You climb up a tower to get one of the goddess keys that controls the weather. No problem. Bad guy is at the end of it and you are in the nightmare world. Random encounters, low visibility, tiles that you are forced to walk on and the screen starts spinning. I reach what I think is the end to only be faced with the entrance and an urge to break something.
You forgot Mother 2: EVERY SINGLE SANCTUARY. The worst offenders are the Lost Underworld, Fire Spring and Mother 2's version of Magicant-which is shit compared to that of Mother 1-afterward. All have hard to kill enemies, you need to make sure Ness has all the best items for Magicant beforehand, and the bosses are cheating mother(2)fuckers. Then you get to the Cave of the Past which is even worse. And then there's Porky and Gyiyg, the latter of whom is unpredictable and hits you like an W'rkncacnter closing a car door _gently._ At this point I just abuse quicksaving until I beat Gyiyg.
The Ice Cavern in Arcana. ARRRRGGHH!! A big, mazey multi-level monstrosity. Then, near the end, I fight a tough fire-based boss. Right after beating it, Axs says "You're ready for this." and gives me the Marid Card. Seriously?? I REALLY could have used that just a moment ago. Screw you, Axs. Did I mention that there's ANOTHER boss right after that?
Yeah, but the Moria Cavern in Tails of Phantasia is optional for the most part. As I recall you only ever have to do the first couple of floors to move on with the story. Personally I think that one volcano dungeon should get a special mention since your HP constantly drops both in and out of battle even if you just stand there, and your HP can drop to zero.
The Tower Of Magi was fun because of the monsters and gimmick, it wasn't annoying at all. The trip to the Dark Elf Cave in FF4 was short, and if you give Cid the Wood Hammer you're fine. Yang's claws aren't affected and you can kill the boss with 2 attacks. How was that hard? Infinity was a lot of fun, especially in the second half. Once you've gained a few levels it's easy enough. Illusion Of Gaia was a really easy game overall. Mu was unique for a last dungeon and had a heal spot. I'm not sure how that was hard even if it took a little time to sort through it. Most of Phantasy Star 2's dungeons are like rat mazes, especially the yellow dam. They're not impossible to map on your own though.
Final Fantasy IV Lunar Core was a nightmare with the game expecting you to figure out which walls are hidden paths you have to walk through to get through the dungeon (and there were WAY too many of these in the dungeon that was made super-confusing by the stairway transitions).
All these comments on Phantasy Star 2 about grinding. Once you get the Snow Crown (Deban), Storm Gear (Gizan), and Color Scarf (Saner) have Amy use Crown to cast Deban every battle, and 4th party member to use Gear to cast Gizan. Last 2 bosses to add Saner to speed up your party and you can beat the game at Level 25. Also use Crescegear to use Gires to heal party during battles when needed
If Illusion of Gaia counts as an RPG, then I'd nominate the underwater segment of Young Merlin. A large maze with reduced movement speed and a demanding timer that relies entirely on trial and error since there is no other way to tell which of the grottoes hold the oxygen-giving mermaids and which hold the piranha that will chase you forever or until the lack of oxygen finishes you first. More common would be Peaceful Rest Valley from Earthbound. Evil mushrooms, exploding trees and more combine to make the end of Ness' solo adventuring a wretched misery.
Ohhh, Phantasy Star 2; only my second JRPG ever. Not to sound like the "old guy wagging his cane" and shouting about how much harder things were back in the day, but the Green Dam & Ikuto (and a whole lot more) for 8 year old me, with no guides or maps, and that crazy encounter rate, was absolutely INSANE.
Looooooool, I was in about the same time age as you when I went through Mu, was definitely the first time in the game that was a big difficulty difference.
Currently playing phantasy star 2 for the millionth first time (never finished it...) And whew boy! Thanks for the moral boost.... I thought I had I hard and I'm still in climatrol. Still, I swore I would do the entire quadrilogy one day (and not just the fourth one... Witch is AWESOME!)
I know, right? The fourth one ironed out all the bad bits of 2, kept the charm of it, and really knocked it out of the park. You should just forget III exists though lol.
@@allenharper2928 still gonna do 3! 😋 It's been more than 20 years since I should have done the first 3 (instead I just did PS4.... 200 times) Gosh phantasy star 4 is good! The music is SOOOOOOOOOO good!!!
Honestly, I think 3 was the only one I never finished. 4 was my fave, then 2, and 1 was a close third. Topping all that though, is Phantasy Star Online. My. God. I played the HELL out of that game on Dreamcast. Any time these days I hear people complaining about lack of content in a game, all I can think is, 'You youngster, back in my day we played an MMO with 4 levels, and we LOVED IT!' :p
@@allenharper2928 so true!!! The amount of time spent in the mine sections in PSO... Some could say it was time wasted, but having to do an extra semester in college because of the Time I spent NOT studying... Worth it.
The Lodestone Cavern isn't too bad, though the presented clip had the party at a lower apparent level than I usually have tackling that particular dungeon. Regarding the equipment issue, Toroia Castle Town has everything you should need.
Honestly, I was stuck at Angel Village in Illusion of Gaia for months ,as I had no idea how to open the passage near the waterfalls. And even then, the worst dungeon I think is the Mountain Temple to get that damn teapot.
So far as the fan translation of Shin Megami Tensei If was released yesterday I'm putting some of those first person dungeons on there. I guess I'm used to first person dungeons on the DS. I'm so spoiled.
@@BlinJe No map at all. Imagine playing Strange Journey or Soul Hackers without the bottom screen. Or imagine a Metroidvania game that required you to memorize the entire game. You have to get the pen and paper.
Dude, I did that last Phantasy Star 2 Ikuto dungeon just recently because I had always loved Phantasy Star 1 and thought finishing 2 in my adulthood should be a goal. The pitfalls destroyed me there but it lead up to a decent ending with earthfolk having been the alien travellers to Algol to set up shop in the system. What a great social commentary, but the Dezoris dungeons and the fact that I never had any idea what magic ever did because it was was in Japanese really boggled my efforts; I found myself cross-referencing each hole with what it drops to (process of elimination mostly). Then I realized to move ahead I needed something different from an entirely different dungeon anyway. Ikuto is a loot dungeon really, right? How imploringly dreadful. Would you be willing to do a video on the secrets of Phantasy Star 1 dungeonfare?
Illusion of Gaia's Mu gave me months of rage (since I didn't have the game, and had to rent it over and over, and a lot of times people just deleted the save), and I had no clue I could slide through small holes...months and months of trial and error for something so simple to be the solution...
Lufia 2 had many dungeons like this,but is more because of the puzzles than anything,there were some hardcore puzzles in that game.Aaaaaand Breath of Fire 1.Just Breath of Fire 1.Almost every dungeon .If i have to give names probably the entire World of Dreams and Mare Tower.Or Tock Tower,man,i hate that place
Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei had one where EVERY OTHER FLOOR TILE was a trap space that would send you down one floor. To make matters worse, you have to deal with the (high) random encounter rate. I know it's a remake of a Famicom game but the fact that they left that dungeon in shows that they saw nothing wrong with it.
Ikuto is the worst. You can spend hours in there trying to get a weapon for a character who's not even in your party, because it's required to HAVE all the Nei equipment whether you can use it or not. (In fact, there's no possible party that can use every piece.)
There are several ways to get around Magimaster. Rasp and Osmose will actually kill him and a lack of mp will keep him from casting Ultima (But it takes like 45 minutes). Also the palidor esper when he's near death. In addition to life 3. Can gau rage? He has a really low level rage that casts life 3. D. Dragon after transformation is weak to Tellah's tornado or weak spell.
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Is Infinity on here?
I really love your content. Your fresh takes on classic JRPGs have helped renew my passion for gaming.
In all fairness it was a smart move not to put a save spot on the top of Fanatics Tower, imagine if that was your only save spot and you don't have Life 3.
Makes me glad whenever dungeons put a shortcut between the entrance and final battle once you make your way through the dungeon.
Luckily ,the moogle charm exists
It's funny because when i saw this video in my feed, I was like "I wonder which dungeon out of Phantasy Star II was picked", then watched and saw it get top spot. Totally agree.
Just had flashbacks of me as an 8 year old trying to navigate the Green Dam....as much as I loved that game, pure brutality.
Late response, but I just watched the video and it's just a week after I bought the Genesis collection on Steam to play Phantasy Star 2. I've only played 3 and 4 before, but now I know what's coming.
@@freedantheeternal Complete Generation 1 *before* going into Phantasy Star Generation 2 and use that "game clear" data. Enjoy
Never beat PS2. I want to go back to it
Phantasy Star 2 was my first RPG and I loved it. Still do. Still occasionally play as emulation, but it has become a bit... tedious with extremely limited inventory and such, that I am not quite accustomed to any more these days. Also the need to grind for extra levels to make it through a dungeon is quite high in some places. Another thing is the semi-randomness of stat points (including HP and TP) awarded per level up. So if you are lucky you end up with a character that is average level 6 but with HP, TP and average stats of level 8 or you cound be unlucky and be the equivalent of level 4. Luckily often low HP gain is offset by higher defense gain. Still, for those perfectionists, safe before level up and try again. Unfortunatelly saving can only be done in towns or with a special item that the last character to joim your party can "aquire" from a certain place as soon as she is level 10. That however will not happen after about 1/4 of the game. It is a challenging RPG especially in late game dungeons when they get more elaborate and multi floored the farther you progress in the game. Unlike other Phantasy Star games, Phantasy Star 2 does not have a common potion or item to replenish TP, so every tech you cast has to be carefully weighted. Have Escapipe and Telepipe ready. And if you can wear magic gear to heal and maybe even attack to conserve TP. Magic gear does not break and especially the healing ones are extremely usefull in battles. They do not work outside of battles, however.
And yeah, Green Dam is a biatch, even with Kain in your party, because of his low TP. Rolf, Rudo, Kain and Amy are my main team thorough all dams, as Anna, Hugh and Shir are useless as f* against the enemies. Dams are also were you find the first gears that have a permanent tech spell.
Final boss of the game should only be approched at highest level with inventory full of Stardust.
The end is a bit... underwhelming.
Phantasy Star 4 is the most elaborate and the easiest of the original series. Never had any problem there as long as I leveled up correctly and had the right party members.
Fanatic's tower is easy
1. Have Mog in your party, a person with berserk effect (e.g. Umaro), and a person with Life 3
2. Equip Moogle Charm.
3. profit.
Have mog use the amulet that negate the random encounters STONKS
Umaro wreaked the tower in the original game, but apparently most re-releases gave all the tower's enemies max defense, so it doesn't really work any more.
Don't even need Life 3. Cast Berserk on boss so he only uses his weak physical attacks, then use Rasp/Osmose on boss. When he runs out of MP he will attempt to cast Ultima, fail because 0MP, then die.
Yes, it's longer, but Berserk, Rasp, and Osmose spells don't require you to have gone through Phoenix Cave first
@Alex Kalinin There's also that. Quetzali IS available right when you get the Falcon in WoR
Yeah,but that doesn't make the dungeon any better.
Square themselves kind of parodied the Fanatics' Tower climb with the Shrinra staircase sequence in FFVII.
tdark987 I’ve never looked at it that way!
kojima did something similar with metal gear 3 with the damn ladder climb.
@@zac0918 Or com tower from MGS1
Quoting Kaiba from the Abridged version, "Oh my God, so many stairs!"
Barret: "... I never want to see stairs again for the rest of my life..." XD
Here’s a really good runner up for number 1. The world of sloth: Shin Megami Tensei IF. It’s a dungeon based off of the deadly sin of sloth and so the gimmick reflects it. In this dungeon high school students are forced to dig tunnels into stone so that you can pass. In order to get through you have to wait for the tunnels to be finished in REAL TIME. In the game there is a moon shape system which affects your ability to run from battles. The shapes change about every 5 battles with it taking around 30 battles to complete a full cycle. In the world of sloth the moon shape system simulates time passing. The problem? THERE’S ABOUT 20 TUNNELS YOU HAVE TO GET THROUGH. Battles take at least 5 minutes each if you aren’t equipped with the highest level demons at the time. The enemy’s are fairly high level in this dungeon meaning battles take even longer. It takes a entire moon cycle for a tunnel to be fully dug. Every tunnel is one after another with no way to have two dug at once. You see the problem? This entire dungeon takes around 4 ENTIRE HOURS ON NORMAL SPEED. ON 2X SPEED IT’S 2 HOURS. HOW DID THIS NOT MAKE THE LIST?
I've gotta disagree with the FFIV one. You said earlier that you like dungeons that challenged you to just not mash fight command, then decry this one for doing just that. Sealed cave was much more annoying than this or tower of zot.
FFVI slight disagreement. Not on the dungeon, you nailed that critique. Magi Master can also be neutralized by rasp, a spell you've had access to since the IMF. And in a magic only tower, damaging MP is definitely a realistic tactic for the final boss. Yes, I know he has an absurd amount of MP, but you don't HAVE to use life 3.
You can also use Palidoor at the end as long as he dies before everybody lands.
I think his grievance with sealed cave is fair, considering all Cecil and Cid can DO is fight, aside from some terrible white magic. You get to have Yang and Tellah with his staggering 90mp that never increases. It's so bad, it's the only place where I just run from everything.
It's been a while (20 yrs) but I'm pretty sure you can use the Jump ability to survive that boss in FF6. Edit: I forgot you can only use magic, though Jump may still work. It's been a long time. I need to replay that game.
I always felt the lodestone cavern in FFIV was meant to just have you run and survive through until you get to the boss. The real challenge of that dungeon is surviving and beating the boss with crappy gear. Now the trap door cave ... that's the worst imo
Killing him with rasp is incredibly slow, I'm not sure if he has more mp than hp but with how little mp rasp removes it's hard to imagine that's the intended method.
@@Seegtease That's what I always did there. Your party was just so ill-equipped to deal with that mechanic that running from every fight and going through Cure1 potions like water was your best bet. Tellah's MP was never going to last more than a few fights, so why even try there?
I would have added in the Cave of Trial leading to Vane in the original Sega CD version of Lunar: Silver Star. Not only are you forced to play as Alex *alone*, but the vast majority of monsters within the cave are only vulnerable to magic. Personally, I love magic and mages (Red Mages are my personal faves from the FF series, followed by Black, White, and Time Mages, interchangeably) and would have loved something like this normally, but what makes this cavern extremely difficult is that Alex has only JUST learned his first spell (as part of the plot) right before you have to head to Vane. The cave is difficult enough on its own - especially the second half, which sports some enemies not seen in the first - but the semi-surprise boss that hits like a jackhammer (I think it attacks 4 times or something ridiculous for that part of the game) will absolutely destroy you unless Alex has learned his first multi-target, higher-damage spell (Flamer). Also, note that Sword Skills weren't a thing in the original version with the exception of Kyle, so Alex also lacked what would become his most damaging low-cost attacks. Yeah... rough.
I remember my first time playing through the game way back being stuck in the cave having to level-grind until I was able to make the trek, but the only saving grace is that they have a character by the entrance who fully heals Alex's HP and MP for free. Of course, having suffered through that, when I made it to the Cave of Trial in the PS1 Silver Star Story Complete version and saw that Luna actually sticks around to help, I was like "Well, this is going to be a cakewalk in comparison!" The fact that Alex's Sword Dance counted as magic in terms of damage potential also made it a bit too easy. Ah well...
After that, I think Althena's Tower was the only other dungeon I found somewhat annoying because of how efficiently the enemies there can sap your resources regardless of how strong the party is, but it leads to one of the best scenes (and twists) in the game, so it can be forgiven.
Related Note: I remember that Robotrek dungeon. I blocked it out of my memory for a reason. Thanks for reminding me why I haven't revisited that game in two decades. :)
It takes a while, but the best way to beat the boss at the top of the fanatic's tower in FF6 is to cast berserk on him and then use nothing but rasp (and osmose) until he runs out of MP. When his MP gets to 0, he will try to cast ultima, fail, and die.
Have fun whittling 50000 MP with each Rasp taking 500 or so of his MP, lol...
@@guilhermegmoreir Yeah, supposedly Ultima Weapon on the floating continent will also die if you get its MP to zero, but I've never seen it happen. It's much simpler to just kill it the conventional way...
TBH I didn’t even have Life 3 when I fought the Magi Master. I just berserked him, made my party invisible so he couldn’t hurt me at all, and then proceeded to use Osmose to sap his HP. Then when he reaches the end of his MP, he just self-destructs and couldn’t use Ultima because he ran out of MP…
I actually appreciated the design choice for Infinity in Breath of Fire 2. I remember the game feeling increasingly desperate towards the end and that dungeon really drives home that sense of Despair that was such an embedded part of the Deathevn's plot. It made the end of BoF2 surprisingly immersive for a game from that era.
To be fair, they did put a town below and several save points in the lower part.
I agree though, there was something unique and special about going all that distance under the mountain and wow a town.
There wasn't a boss fight, so it didn't need a save. It just makes you grind, which you need anyway.
Man oh man. I was wondering when Phantasy Star 2 would come up on the list, and I'm not surprised it made #1. Like, my nostalgia goggles for this game are huge, but I'm not above admitting that these dungeons were fiendish. And practically each one of them has something unique about it that makes it so hellish. Heck, even if the traversal of them wasn't hard enough, some of them are even pretty much impossible to find the entrance to without either a guide or copious exploring in the first place. Like, the first time I played this game I borrowed it off a friend, and I didn't have the guide book to go with it, so to this day I still have no idea how I managed to find the Oputa tower that holds the Dam's four keycards, let alone work out that I was supposed to use an otherwise completely useless technique to avert the keyboard trap. Then there's Uzo Island, which looks completely inconspicuous from the world map and has the red-herring Maruera Tree puzzle, and the Crevice to Esper Mansion, which I got stuck on in my first playthrough, because I didn't even know what to look for, and never noticed where the entrance even was because HOW the hell was I supposed to know there's actually a passageway INTO the giant dark death pit? Then of course there's Roron, where if you don't start out by literally walking out of bounds into a completely different hidden entrance of the dungeon you never get anywhere worthwhile, Skure Spaceport, which you'll be traversing every time you come back from Mota, since there's no way to teleport to any of the Dezo towns directly on arrival... The less said about the four Dams the better, and then... the quest for the Nei Equipment. Hoo boy. Putting Ikuto for top pick, I'm totally feeling you there, man. On my most recent playthrough of PSII, this is probably the place where my heart sank the most. It's... just.... so... aggravatingly SLOW to slog through this dungeon. I mean, honestly, all four of the Dezo dungeons are (Shoutouts to Guaron and all of its 17 floors), but it takes a special kind of evil to build an entire dungeon around the concept of one-way pitfalls.
Yep. you pretty much nailed it.
He means Dam as in a wall that hold back water, not Damn as is damnation.
Phantasy Star 2 was definitely a difficult game, especially without the guide. I played the game not long after it was released by renting it. The place I rented it from had 3 days rentals. All I got with the game was the map insert and that's it. I rented it 2 more times before I finally finished it. I had to create my own maps and explore everything. I had a lot more patience back then :) The pitfalls were definitely troublesome to say the least.
Naval on dezo was probably the hardest dungeon in the game..
Those of you who actually managed to beat Phantasy Star 2 are brave. I couldn't take it anymore after Neifirst - she was the final boss for me. Even though I have a huge soft spot for the game's soundtrack and I love its in-game world, the endless level grinding and absurd complexity of the dungeons just eats away at your soul after a while. Many dungeons from the first PS game could make it onto one of these lists too imo.
Robotrek was a great game. It definitely had some drudgery areas though.
I like robotrek, but that game was seriously effed up.
Ugh...Phantasy Star 2...man oh man that was tough. I used the guide that came with the game and I still got lost if I didn't pay attention what connected to what. I want to say you at least will have the green dam/blue dam and Climator. But really almost all of them can be a nightmare. With that said...I still love the game :)
Well I only chose one from each game, and it was the one that gave me the most trouble, though to be honest I could’ve filled the entire list with nothing but Phantasy Star 2 dungeons.
@@davidvinc I looked forward to seeing which one gave you the most trouble.
I used the guide to as a kid but didn't understand that the direction that the triangles which represented elevators pointed actually indicated whether they took you up or down in the dungeon. Somehow I still managed to get through Ikuto. I couldn't imagine playing that game without a guide, that would just be cruel and unusual punishment.
@@davidvinc Wow, Ikuto...yeah that deserves a spot. If it wasn't for the guide...and my brother jumping through every pit and marking on the map where it leads you (he played it before me) I would have hated it as well.
@@davidvinc I was so excited when I first started playing the game, interesting storyline, awesome music, but then I couldn't even get past the first dungeon!!! So crestfallen after that and gave up haha. Always wondered about that game and what I missed though.
I’ve played my fair share of annoying dungeons in SNES RPGs, but only one has ever made me put a game down entirely. That would be Dragon Mountain from Lufia 2, a game that I had really enjoyed, up until I reached that point. All it took was that one stupid puzzle with the grass and the fire arrows to make me turn the game off, and never look back.
For me, the worst part of the whole Arus Cave dungeon was simply me misunderstanding things. I was ten back when I first played Lufia 1 and had a lot less patience and rational thinking. For so long, I simply did not know there was even another cave entrance outside. I just kept wandering around like an idiot thinking there was something else I needed to do, and then kept going back to the castle again to talk to Piron thinking I misunderstood him with the whole, "We'll get the tools ready" dialogue or that something would change somehow by talking to him again and it just frustrated me to no end. I fought in the cave so long that Lufia even learned Thunder, I think.
So just as a little note, every creature in the Fanatic's Tower will die if it runs out of MP, meaning you can use Rasp and Osmose against the final boss as a method of killing it. Not only does it have far less MP than HP, but as an added bonus, once you do kill it in this way, it won't have the MP available to kill the party with Ultima, making Life3 not a mandatory spell. Hope that helps if you ever want to run the dungeon again :)
Actually, there is a very easy way to beat the Loadstone Cavern AND kill the boss. In the town near the cavern you can purchase wooden weapons, they are only slightly less effective than the weapons you already have; also remember that the magnetic field has no effect Yang's claws. Once you reach the boss and it becomes clear that you have no chance of beating him with wooden swords and such...usually after he transforms--this plays out as dialogue after all but one of your party members dies. Edward, the Bard, struggles from a bed he's recovering in--I believe he was wounded or something in a prior battle--and crawls to his harp...if you have an item called The Twin Harp equipped on one of your characters it begin to echo the music Edward plays back in town on its own, the music negates the magnetic field and you can then re-equip your party with your REAL weapons and open up a can of whoop-ass on that boss.
He did mention that you can use weapons from earlier, but you still need to go back and actually get those weaker weapons if you weren't carrying them already
And if you have someone with an iron item they are just paralyzed. It doesn't kill your whole party in the least. The only way that would be guaranteed is if ALL your party had mettle weapons on. If even one person didn't you could just run and run out of the cave. Also, "the long trek to the black chocobo forest takes about 2 minutes."
You can also use silver weapons. Silver is a non ferrous metal,I.e it's not magnetic.
@@Piedfighter That's true IRL, but is that true in the game. It's been ages since I played it, and I don't ever remember trying that.
@@thedude5295 No the silver weapons count as metalic so you cant use them. The cavern is that bad though as you can just use Tellah's debuffs to cripple the enemies and have Yang and Cid bash them down, basically make Cecil into a white mage and your fine....just make sure you got the twin harp from Edward
Oh, the things we did for fun, back in the day!! Lol
Phantasy Star 2 is the JRPG I Literally grew up wit, it's My Fave 16 bit JRPG of All Time...
It was a great game, but the dungeons keep me from replaying it.
It was. I didn't finish it. Might have to go back and finish the game.
Hold on, didn't Lufia 2 have a dungeon that had 100 floors that started you at lvl 1 regardless of your strength upon reaching? No saves, if you left you could only keep certain weapons/armor/items from specific chest found within and if you restarted, you'd be right back at lvl 1.
That blew my mind at the time.
Yes one of the reasons why I love Lufia 2 so much.
@@dougphisig i still love that game...so much replay value...oh the joys of cheating your ass through but still needing to find all dragon eggs 4 times before you can fight the egg dragon....or cheating egg sword and max stats in the ancient cave!!!!
What was a bonus dungeon/minigame though
@@Ghalion666 True, but damn, that was fun.
You forgot about all the floors being randomly generated every time you enter. And the Iris treasures... Don't get me started on the Iris Treasures.
I collected all of them on the original cartridge I had when I was a kid, but the battery died. I am working on collecting them again on my SNES Mini. Lufia II remains one of my favorite games today entirely because of this dungeon.
Neat video. I was going to comment something snarky like "You could've just made this list all Phantasy Star II dungeons", but then I get to the end of the video and see that you already have it covered. XD
I gotta say I didn't think the Lodestone Cavern was all that bad.
In later iterations (after the DS, Complete Collection and such) I worked my way around the constraints with different gear, but when I was younger, like almost 25 years ago I simply said screw it, bulked up except for Yang and then ran from every battle until I reached the boss.
I'm just recently playing it, but Romancing Saga is quite nasty with the dungeons. It gets salvaged though by the fact that you can save everywhere and most dungeons have an easy exit. But good lord, they're infested by tons of enemies, battles scale with you but they have quite a lot of randomness (at least once per dungeon you die in a regular random encounter against a single enemy that just decides to one-shot all your SIX characters). Then dungeons tend to be just floors with rooms spiraling around, also all places are huge. Most treasures are gold, your max gold is 9999 and each battle gives around 100gp. At the end of the first floor you max the gold. Hence 98% chests are useless. I love this game but it sure does have some nasty design.
yeah I really liked that game but the amount of enemies in some areas was just too ridiculous, even fast forwarding through battles wasnt enough
The game is just crap
omg....somebody else remembers Robotrek! god I loved that game as a kid...wish we could get at least a virtual console type port of it.....I don't think it's ever seen a re-release ( come on Square Enix....bring back this obscure classic )
It was only published by Enix (they weren't Square Enix yet), it was created by a company called Quintet. Best known for Actraiser and Soulblazer/Illusion of Gaia/Terranigma. And it's not surprising that it's faded into obscurity; wikipedia says that Robotrek only sold about 65,000 units between USA and Japan. It was a fun little game though.
It's a shame that so few Enix-published games have appeared on the Virtual Console and its successors.
I loved it when it came out, but I don't think it aged very well. I've tried several times to play it again over the years and I just can't get back into it. Same thing with me for Earthbound too.
I was so happy when I came across a used copy at my local used game store. I still haven't beaten it, but I'm getting there.
The dungeons in the secret of evermore where you need to retrieve the diamond eyes brought my game progression to a screeching halt.
I started a new game on this recently. Underrated game, or maybe I just grew up with it.
I loved the Hall of Collosia. Great music. There pyramid on the other hand is less appealing
Nice inclusion of Robotrek, I feel it's an underrated classic title. I've actually got the game complete in box lol.
I don't think it's underrated, simply because that's how obscure the game actually is. Wikipedia says that the game only moved about 65,000 units.
Unfortunately I'm missing the sheet that has the invention combinations.
I had it on console as a kid too. And wouldn't ya know it, the exact dungeon mentioned in this video is the reason I never beat it. Such an unintuitive slog.
I didn't mind the FF4 Magnetic Cavern. Considering all of your characters really were just attackers except for Tellah, it's nice that the developers found a way to make the dungeon more interesting. At least the shops let you buy items to help you, and Cecil's damage with a bow was pretty good - especially against the flying enemies that were placed in that dungeon on purpose. Yang's and Cid's damage also didn't depend on magnetic items either, so it wasn't really that much of a restriction.
Right on. Fuck Phantasy Star II's dungeons. I've always had a bone to pick with that game and you pretty much summed it up in two sentences.
My "worst Dungeon" experience was in Chrono Trigger in Death Peak. Not because it was difficult, I was just too dumb as a kid to figure out how to hide behind the tree from the wind at the beginning...
It was also tricky to do.
Most of these issues aren't a problem.
I don't like casual baby's first JRPGs where I just spam attack and only resort to winning parts of the game is grinding. I like being handicapped, I like stragety, I actually like trial and error from time to time, that feeling when you've messed up in a long dungeon because of op enemy set ups is crushing but it makes that victory so much more satisfying. Not saying that all jrpgs and all their dungeons should require too much effort or be super hard. But once in a while or quite a common thing it's a good change.
But I will admit that games with dead ends with possible no way to fix it and the phantasy star 2 dungeons are a pain in the ass.
What do you think about the other Phantasy Star games and Shining in the Darkness?
This is a great list. A couple of notes:
1. In the Mu entry, I think you omitted the worst part. The Vampire at the end is really hard and gave me fits when I was first playing through the game.
2. I haven't played Tales of Phantasia in a long time, but I think the Treant Forest is the one that has basilisks in it. If so, it gets my vote easily, because not only is it long, but if you aren't careful, your entire team turns to stone and it;s an insta game over.
3. Have you ever played Arcana on the SNES? Because my #1 is the Ice Cave.
That place is sadistic. It's long, there's no map for parts you haven't explored. It all looks the same, and worst of all there's a choice of 4 different paths you can follow, 3 of the 4 are very long, but only is actually the correct path.
That's right, if you go down the wrong path, you will play forever and not know you went the wrong way. Oh and the random encounter rate is nuts.
I actually fell asleep twice trying to traverse this hellscape.
When I was a kid I feel like I breezed through stuff like this but I lack the patience at this life juncture haha. I cheat with the internet for help sometimes because I kinda already proved myself in the past.
All difficult dungeons..but phantasy star two was an entire game full of dungeons made to make you cry...goddamned difficult even with a hint book..good luck if you didn't have one..days before internet where you were on your own...also I challenge anyone with the time to re visit shining in the darkness...the last few dungeons are just ridiculous...also this may not qualify here but baya Malaya tower in phantasy star one...OMG...in a game way before Internet or strategy guides...a game where there is no item or spell that could completely heal a character...no in game map..o.p enemies...just insanely hard for its time...but yeah..most final fantasy games were mostly cake with maybe one hard part. Phantasy star two is the champ of difficulty...
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[0:44] - 10) Cave to Arus - Lufia: And the Fortress of Doom
[1:30] - 9) Tower of Fanatics - Final Fantasy 6
[2:28] - 8) Bucca Island Cave - Seiken Densetsu 3
[3:18] - 7) Lodestone Cavern - Final Fantasy 4
[4:16] - 6) Moria Gallery - Tales of Phantasia
[5:04] - 5) Infinity - Breath of Fire 2
[5:52] - 4) Mu - Illusion of Gaia
[6:37] - 3) Temple of Ys/Solomon - Ys Books 1 & 2
[7:25] - 2) South Island Fortress - Robotrek
[8:32] - 1) Ikuto - Phantasy Star 2
Hello, this was a premiere video and I live chatted with everyone when it first came out. If you would like to read that please click on "show chat replay" in the upper right hand corner. I hope you enjoy the video!
A lot of issues for one illusion of Gaia isn’t a jrpg it’s the same category as Zelda action adventure 2. You y’all about robotrek as if you have discovered some secret in gaming widely known game I highly doubt you played around release time I think you have been watching snesdrunk videos and trying to act like you played them when they where relevant.
Moogle Charm has its advantages with the Fanatics Tower.
I'm surprise you didn't pick the the moon's core. That in fact is the hardest cave period IMO.
Yeah totally agree phantasy star 2 is easily one of the hardest games with out the maps. Even with them it can take forever. Up to The biolab isn't to bad but pretty much from the dams on. Even getting the the leaf for the gum..... Not only that the pace they walk around makes it feel like forever and the encounter rate....lol. Imo easily one of the hardest rpgs ever.
When I saw the title of this video I immediately thought of the "holes of doom" dungeon of Phantasy Star II !
I agree that Phantasy Star II could've been all 10 spots on this list. The game is impossible without a map, and if you didn't have the hint book you'd have to make one yourself.
One choice that easily would've been on there was either the waterfall cave or the forest in Secret of Evermore. Both of those places are very confusing and extremely easy to get lost in without a map and are much more challenging than the Fanatics Tower. The Ivor Tower sewer system can be a pain, too.
I have just beaten Ys 1 on the sega master system. In just two days. Although, I played the patch that reverts the names, to match that of the pc versions.
final fantasy 4 that lodestone cavern. Apparantly all staves are considered non-metallic so give Cecil a mithril /silver staff and he can bludgeon things to death. Before I found this out I really came to appreciate Rosa's Aim ability. Using the fight command with a bow was like being blind.
I generally just stripped all gear and ran through the entire dungeon, doing the leveling over by Silveria. You get gear back for the Dark Dragon fight, so there's no real need to buy non-metal gear just for this dungeon.
@@gregpeloquin6345 I just run from all the battles as well. I also power Level Cecil after becoming a Paladin on Mt. Ordeals.
Phantasy star Two, the whole game
As a kid, I got to the first dungeon, wandered around blindly gained a lot of experiance, make no progress, finally end up frustrated and turn it off.
I still haven't beaten it, but I have made some progress using maps on the PS2 collection version.
I wouldn't argue with you on the PS2 dungeon, except to say that Uzo Island (where you get the leaf to make the gum) probably takes it for me. Or maybe climatrol: brutally long dungeon with a hard boss at the end you have to fight with only 3 people.
On that note (first time I tackle PS2 by the way)
....should I unequip Nei and sell everything she has since.... Well... Spoiler alert ..?
Should I let her die fast so I don't waste my time with her?
@@kinorai yeah, but you can wait right before the fight to do it. she's still useful in the dungeon. the boss fight doesn't start until you talk to her, so just give all nei's expensive stuff to someone else first.
@@cyanveo1850 done.
God damn Nei first was hard. I was about level 15-17 (Rolf, Amy and Anna)... Not the best team...
I actually really liked the Temple of Solomon at the end of Ys book II. The vast size made it feel epic. I admit though that it would have been nice to at least get something at the end of those deadends.
Lufia II and the "secret" 99 level dongeon was a pain in the ass too. You should try this one, it is a good challenge.
I loved the Bucca Island Cave! Especially the background music. It's a great place to grind, if you do it by the gold statue located just before where you reach all the branching paths. I can usually get my characters up to level 16/17 here without much trouble, making them able to the class change in the ice fields..
Thing about Fanatic's tower, as dull as the loop seems it's like that on purpose. It's designed to make you feel like you're not getting anywhere so you have no idea where you are or how much further you need to go - it's a hopeless feeling that may make you want to quit and not get the treasures the tower holds.
Gau can use his Rage's in the tower and Rhinox casts Life 3 so, that. Casting Berserk or equipping Berserk Ring on an ally will allow them to attack physically - great with Fixed Dice, Ultima Weapon or Illumina and slaughtering the enemies. In the original version you if you cast Vanish on an enemy Doom & X-Zone cannot miss (even against Instant Death immune bosses)
Also Life 3 is not hard to get. With Phoenix esper just kill Cactaurs & Land Worms in the desert at 5 & 10 M-EXP per fight. No more than 20 quick fights and no less than 10. Do this with Cursed Shield on to multitask breaking it into Paladin Shield.
Interesting choices. I have some small additons
I hated the dragon mountain in Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals. It is mostly not the dungeon itself, it is the grass puzzle. Back in the day i wasn't able to beat it, despite having the strategy guide. The strategy guide was utterly useless, similar to Final Fantasy IX.
Then there is the dark forest in Secret of Evermore. It was mostly trial and error to get to the end. I guess it is not that bad in retrospect.
Lastly the Hell Gate in Tactics Ogre. 100 floors and you have to beat them at least twice in the PSP version. The place is full of undead enemies, which resurrect after 3 turns.
Chris Inger The forest in Secret of Evermore is fucking ridiculous. Also don't know if it really counts, but the desert you have to cross that goes on forever is so painful all while being chased by endless amounts of killer tumbleweed
I mistakenly posted this on the Playstation video:
How about that one dungeon in the first Breath of Fire? I can't remember if it's the very last or like 2nd or 3rd last. But basically it's a maze where everything looks the same. To make matters worse, the whole screen rotates every several steps, combined with the random encounters, you're going to get lost/discombobulated/forget where you have already walked. I spent literal hours as a kid trying to finish it!
The dungeons in Phantasy Star 2 were pretty bad after the 4 Dams you had to open. The dev's knew this and included a full strategy guide with the game that had detailed maps of every dungeon.
That game wasn't 'too' bad so long as you had the guide. I'm not sure I could make it through it now without it. At least Sword of Vermilion isn't that hard without the guide.
How about: Basically every single dungeon in Sword of Vermillion.
They all look EXACTLY the same, your minuscule inventory is extremely frustrating especially before you can buy Lanterns and have to rely on short-lasting candles to light up the cave at all, and honestly, the game itself kinda sucks so it just becomes an exercise in frustration. :(
I was always a Phantasy Star kid growing up, but I agree with Ikuto. Luckily, the game comes with a "hint book" with maps, but even then. The slow pace + hard enemies + annoying traps (not to mention the walk to actually get there) is terrible!
would disagree with honorable mention Karnak in FF5, it's a dungeon that goes by in a very quick pace, messes with your expectations and features actual choice between getting many elixirs and awesome gear rather than just being a standard dungeon. Ghido's cave is worse in that game.
Karnak also varies depending on whether you're trying to get the brave blade or the chicken knife. If you are after the chicken knife, then it is a good place to build up runs from battle while collecting great even endgame treasure. If you're after the brave blade then it's somehow a slog that you have to do quickly in order to get the important treasure.
Lufia's Arus Cave: Hey. They have MIMICS in that cave. I like the extra trips through that cave, because a few mimic kills gives you a TON of XP which makes the game smoother.
FF6's Fanatics Tower: Or, you could simply put Mog in the group and wear the Moogle Charm and be done with the place in 5 minutes. The stairs are boring, I will give you that.
FF4's Magnetic Cavern: Just unequip the characters, leave them naked and hold L+R on every battle. The only annoying thing about this cave are the freaking bats and their bloodsuck animation takes FOREVER in the original versions of the game. Same beef I have against the Sealed Cave which features the same annoying ass enemies but in larger groups of them so you wait even longer. As for the end boss, I always did some grinding in the forest near Troia enough to buy the armor from that island that sells all the mythril gear. By the time you get enough gold to buy that, your group should have 900-1100HP on your party members except Tellah and the boss's piddly 250s can barely scratch you.
BoF2: Yeah, but I love the awesome weapons laying around everywhere, though. It's difficult, annoying, but rewarding.
IoG: Yeah, I HATE Mu with a purple passion.
Robotrek: The dungeon is mildly annoying, BUT, one of THE best items in the game is found here as a rare drop, the Empty Pack (from the lion enemies). You can make a Solar Pack out of that, and that item is ludicrously awesome. It gives your robots regen. So, because of that absurdly good item, I look forward to arriving here and killing those lions until I get 1-2 empty packs. If anything, I hate that stupid base where you have to use the item to go inside the computer, worse. That place is more confusing, the enemies are way harder than anything else you've fought, but they give you such small amounts of data that it feels unrewarding to actually kill them and they are nearly impossible to avoid because of tiny hallways.
Thank goodness at least Phantasy Star IV was fantastic. Too bad they all couldn't be classics together. What the hell were they thinking with PSII, what dreadful design. I doubt they even played it themselves, pitifully kill my self slow walking speed, horrible encounter rate plus high difficulty. I'm convinced they didn't play the game.
Yeah. PhSII is MASSIVELY overrated for me. The dungeons have absolutely horrible level design. Combine that with slow speed and it's easy to get lost for stupid reasons. They even had to release a guide to be packaged for the game.
#9) If the fights here are giving you so much trouble, come back here after you get Mog and the Moogle Charm, and then loot the place- as long as you don't go all the way up, you won't invoke the Magic Master fight, so you can grab everything short of that and come back after you've ground out Life 3 on a few characters. It's not that hard.
#7) I actually used to think this was a terrible place, but now I recognize it for what it is- a primo forced-levelling spot! That's the whole thing- yes, the enemies are hitting harder because you're in worse gear- but now, well, you go in, you grind up, and then suddenly you're of level to continue the story.
#5) It's this convoluted because it's the final area of the game. Once you enter it, you're not supposed to come back up out of it, but stay in Dologany and use it as a base to explore and grind from for the final battle against Barubary and Deathevan. You can, if you want or need to go and resupply from hunting, but the trek from and back to there isn't much worth it. If you're getting your butt kicked in the top part, stay and resupply in Gate and the overworld until you can push to Dologany. It's not hard to see, you know...
#4) Mu is another genius dungeon. Yes, it is by all admission a pain in the ass, but if you know how to deal with it, then you can take it section by section. Find the first statue, return it to the shrine, drain the water. Locate the Psycho Slider. Locate the second statue in the areas you can explore now that the second level is open. Locate the two Rama statues, and proceed to the boss fight as Freedan. Learn the paths and how the maps link up and you will clear this place in no time flat. There's nothing wrong with retreating to a Dark Space if things go south for you.
#2) It's called a storyline. You go to the island because the people from Rococo keep vanishing after winning vacations there. Granted, they could have made it a little shorter, but considering this is the third big dungeon complex in the game out of seven (River Cave, Haunted Mansion, Volcano Base, Rococo Sewers/City Hall, Hacker HQ, Past River Cave, Hacker Space Fortress), well... what did you expect? The original first run is to get you used to the mechanics- that's why you only get bounced to the start if you're caught. The other times, it shows if you get caught, you get whacked pretty hard.
I'm so glad you called out the Moria Gallery XD almost made me quit the game and had absolutely been loving it up until then.
Those are mostly pretty good picks, but one area comes to mind for me more than any other, and that's the maze forest in secret of evermore. I'm not sure if it would be as difficult now, but as a child I remember being stuck there for literal days. It was hell.
I eventually just sat down and drew a map, screen by screen. This is a great game. I added it to the SNES Mini and played through it not too long ago. It's still fun :-)
If I remember correctly, everytime there is a branching path, you have to go where there is a bird on a branch. These were actually waypointers. Of course, I didn't know this as a kid and ended up drawing a map too.
The Cultist Tower in FFVI can be cheesed by using Mog's Molulu Charm to prevent ALL encounters. So all you need to do is walk up the endless staircase and get all the loot and fight the dragon on the way up. The only fights are the Holy Dungeon and MagiMaster. And what's your reward, a relic that lets you double cast spells... yay
wow, the classic bridge building arc in Lufia. I honestly forgot about that. I was going to say the 3 colored towers, but no you are right. the cave to arus was way more tedious.
I liked that dungeon in FF4. I like that the game challenged you use weaker equipment, and I never found it overwhelming. If I could add a dungeon it would be the one one late in BOF where you couldn't see where you you were walking. I forget what it was called, but twenty years later I can still remember how frustrating it was. Great list though, every time I watch one of these vids I get a irresistible urge to replay one of those great games!
Final Fantasy IX was similar with Ipsen’s castle the except it just made your weaker equipment their strongest
In Breath of Fire 2 I always thought the worse dungeon was killing all the fatty demons. My first time through I did not realize there was no actually end and you had to simply clear out “random” fights until it ended. I walked in circles for hours, becoming so frustrated with it. Even now when I know how to effectively complete this dungeon it still makes me cringe (and I love bof2 so still play it despite this annoying dungeon)
The boss at the end of the Lodestone Cavern in FFIV is easily beaten in his second form by using the tornado magic to reduce him to 1hp
2:28 i actually grinded up (in Spear girl's castle) to Level 18 and Class Change me party, before coming to this cave.
Funny thing is , that if class changed , then reached to the Ghost Ship, if a class changed member is cursed.
Their 2nd class model changes back to thier Beginning Class, until Ghost Ship is cleared.
nothing much but kinda funny.
When I was a kid i would grind to 18 as soon as soon as you get to the first mana stone.
I've been playing the Phantasy Star 2 port for GBA and I agree with the dungeons being confusing (especially without a guide). Even the first one kicked my butt a few times because of those blasters. Ikuto actually wasn't that bad for me though. Whenever I fell to the bottom I used hinas to teleport back to the entrance and try again.
You forgot the worst part about breath of fire 2's final dungeon: at the very end of the dungeon, there is a cutscene.
If you had A character morph into another form, he gets unmorphed here. So I had to traverse this nightmare 3 times. first to get to the cutscene, then back up, to remorph my chars, then back down.
And even with all this grinding the final boss was tough as bloody nails.
I going to have to agree with Mu in illusion of gaia considering not just that but also finding the statue of hope is a puzzle itself. It's not that bad for the first one if you paid close attention to the hint. but for the second one yeah most players can have trouble with that without a walkthrough for it. Most hateful dungeon for me is tie between Final Fantasy Mystic Quest Ice Pyramid or the Lava Dome dungeon. So long for both, and the former has invisible enemies till you find the magic mirror in that same dungeon.
no 7th saga or Paladin quest dungeon? all of them sucks ahahahaha. I passed the breath of fire 2 final dungeon w/ Nina "banish" skill that can make enemy runs which make it very easy to pass
Did not like Lodestone Cavern in FFIV. That is, until Edward's music undoes the magnetic field. Then quickly reequip your party with the best gear, keep the Mythgraven Blade on Cecil as the boss is weak to Holy elemental. The problem is getting to the boss, rather than beating the boss.
Tales of Phantasia had WAY worse dungeons than the Moria Mines! The jungle dungeon was annoying as all hell with the monsters that could turn you to stone. The optional Thor re-entry (Thor is itself a terribly designed dungeon) was also annoying too. The optional final dungeon was also a slog with you just running across a dozen bridges as monsters far stronger than anything else in the game ripped you to shreds.
The only thing that bothered me in BoF2 was that Sven lost his ability to reach across gaps in his evolved form(even though its arms were just as long, if not longer). It was possible to have a full party of evolved characters, but not if you wanted to be able to cross gaps. I seem to recall a non-optional gap you had to cross to even reach the town before this dungeon, too, so you couldn't even get *to* the dungeon with an evolved Sven. Seems like bad design to me, in an otherwise pretty great game.
Gonna have to disagree with FF4 and Robotrek, though. I never found Lodestone Cave particularly difficult, and I've played the original and like 3 different re-releases. They even give you back your good equipment when the boss fight gets to the difficult part. And all that stuff you mentioned was what made me *love* that part of Robotrek! The absurd way the guards treat you. The mouse transformation. It was so insane and I loved it.
I just played the entire lodestone Cavern section in Final Fantasy IV/II today, and honestly it wasn't that bad. Of course, that was mainly because it had gotten hyped up so much that I was able to prepare myself for it and collect all the equipment needed for it as I went through the previous sections of the game. The main thing though was that I got Cecil and Yang to level 33 and Cid to 28 or 29 so I went beyond the levels seen in a Let's Play I've been using as a guide. Even the boss while not easy I had no serious problems because I was able to use Tellah to keep everybody alive so in my opinion it was the easiest boss so far. I came closer to game overs fighting the first 2 elemental emperors/fiends than I did there.
I didn't mind the Tower of Fanatics though, I had a strategy guide that warned me against that cheap TPKO trick so I came in prepared for it.
I remember playing (and hating) the Tower of Fanatics years ago. I had no idea about using the Life3 spell, and I didn’t have it. But I found a different, but extremely slow, way of beating the MagiMaster: have your party cast Osmose on him continuously. After about 30-45 minutes, he’ll run out of MP and POP! He’ll disappear without casting Ultima and destroying your party!
Honestly Climatrol and Uzo Island are way worse than Ikuto. At least you can always just teleport out of any dungeon wherever you feel like it.
I loved robotrek. Oh my teenage years... 😑😍
FF4 is my all time favorite game. Wonderful story and character development!
Maybe it was because I was just a kid, but Breath of Fire 1 had a dungeon I hated. You climb up a tower to get one of the goddess keys that controls the weather. No problem. Bad guy is at the end of it and you are in the nightmare world. Random encounters, low visibility, tiles that you are forced to walk on and the screen starts spinning. I reach what I think is the end to only be faced with the entrance and an urge to break something.
You forgot Mother 2: EVERY SINGLE SANCTUARY. The worst offenders are the Lost Underworld, Fire Spring and Mother 2's version of Magicant-which is shit compared to that of Mother 1-afterward. All have hard to kill enemies, you need to make sure Ness has all the best items for Magicant beforehand, and the bosses are cheating mother(2)fuckers. Then you get to the Cave of the Past which is even worse. And then there's Porky and Gyiyg, the latter of whom is unpredictable and hits you like an W'rkncacnter closing a car door _gently._ At this point I just abuse quicksaving until I beat Gyiyg.
Yeah, the dungeons in Phantasy Star 2 were long and confusing. It would be nice if Sega made a new single player Phantasy Star though.
The Ice Cavern in Arcana. ARRRRGGHH!! A big, mazey multi-level monstrosity. Then, near the end, I fight a tough fire-based boss. Right after beating it, Axs says "You're ready for this." and gives me the Marid Card. Seriously?? I REALLY could have used that just a moment ago.
Screw you, Axs.
Did I mention that there's ANOTHER boss right after that?
last dungeon in Xenogears pretty annoying. Disagree with the magic cult tower
Agreed. But Xenogears doesn't fit the 16-bit era
from Xenogears I would choose the tower of Babel. Jumps. Enemies. Billy (later)
Yeah, but the Moria Cavern in Tails of Phantasia is optional for the most part. As I recall you only ever have to do the first couple of floors to move on with the story. Personally I think that one volcano dungeon should get a special mention since your HP constantly drops both in and out of battle even if you just stand there, and your HP can drop to zero.
The Tower Of Magi was fun because of the monsters and gimmick, it wasn't annoying at all.
The trip to the Dark Elf Cave in FF4 was short, and if you give Cid the Wood Hammer you're fine. Yang's claws aren't affected and you can kill the boss with 2 attacks. How was that hard?
Infinity was a lot of fun, especially in the second half. Once you've gained a few levels it's easy enough.
Illusion Of Gaia was a really easy game overall.
Mu was unique for a last dungeon and had a heal spot. I'm not sure how that was hard even if it took a little time to sort through it.
Most of Phantasy Star 2's dungeons are like rat mazes, especially the yellow dam. They're not impossible to map on your own though.
Final Fantasy IV Lunar Core was a nightmare with the game expecting you to figure out which walls are hidden paths you have to walk through to get through the dungeon (and there were WAY too many of these in the dungeon that was made super-confusing by the stairway transitions).
All these comments on Phantasy Star 2 about grinding. Once you get the Snow Crown (Deban), Storm Gear (Gizan), and Color Scarf (Saner) have Amy use Crown to cast Deban every battle, and 4th party member to use Gear to cast Gizan. Last 2 bosses to add Saner to speed up your party and you can beat the game at Level 25. Also use Crescegear to use Gires to heal party during battles when needed
If Illusion of Gaia counts as an RPG, then I'd nominate the underwater segment of Young Merlin. A large maze with reduced movement speed and a demanding timer that relies entirely on trial and error since there is no other way to tell which of the grottoes hold the oxygen-giving mermaids and which hold the piranha that will chase you forever or until the lack of oxygen finishes you first.
More common would be Peaceful Rest Valley from Earthbound. Evil mushrooms, exploding trees and more combine to make the end of Ness' solo adventuring a wretched misery.
peaceful rest valley is definitely a big difficulty spike but i never found it unmanageable with a few extra healing items
Ohhh, Phantasy Star 2; only my second JRPG ever. Not to sound like the "old guy wagging his cane" and shouting about how much harder things were back in the day, but the Green Dam & Ikuto (and a whole lot more) for 8 year old me, with no guides or maps, and that crazy encounter rate, was absolutely INSANE.
Looooooool, I was in about the same time age as you when I went through Mu, was definitely the first time in the game that was a big difficulty difference.
Currently playing phantasy star 2 for the millionth first time (never finished it...) And whew boy! Thanks for the moral boost.... I thought I had I hard and I'm still in climatrol.
Still, I swore I would do the entire quadrilogy one day (and not just the fourth one... Witch is AWESOME!)
I know, right? The fourth one ironed out all the bad bits of 2, kept the charm of it, and really knocked it out of the park. You should just forget III exists though lol.
@@allenharper2928 still gonna do 3! 😋 It's been more than 20 years since I should have done the first 3 (instead I just did PS4.... 200 times)
Gosh phantasy star 4 is good! The music is SOOOOOOOOOO good!!!
Honestly, I think 3 was the only one I never finished. 4 was my fave, then 2, and 1 was a close third. Topping all that though, is Phantasy Star Online. My. God. I played the HELL out of that game on Dreamcast. Any time these days I hear people complaining about lack of content in a game, all I can think is, 'You youngster, back in my day we played an MMO with 4 levels, and we LOVED IT!' :p
@@allenharper2928 so true!!! The amount of time spent in the mine sections in PSO... Some could say it was time wasted, but having to do an extra semester in college because of the Time I spent NOT studying... Worth it.
@@allenharper2928 oh and you gotta finish your comment with
"GET OFF MY LAWN!"
The Lodestone Cavern isn't too bad, though the presented clip had the party at a lower apparent level than I usually have tackling that particular dungeon. Regarding the equipment issue, Toroia Castle Town has everything you should need.
Oh? You didn't know the dark elf's SNES instawin? Just cast weak on him, always hits and the next character kills him
Whaaaaaaat?! XD That's hilarious. Does that still work in the DS version? If so, I wanna try that.
@@AegixDrakan unfortunately no, the ds removed a lot of the SNES boss fight tricks. Certain moves either don't work anymore or simply get countered
I couldn't agree more with Infinity on BoF2, that place is just aggravating.
Honestly, I was stuck at Angel Village in Illusion of Gaia for months ,as I had no idea how to open the passage near the waterfalls.
And even then, the worst dungeon I think is the Mountain Temple to get that damn teapot.
So far as the fan translation of Shin Megami Tensei If was released yesterday I'm putting some of those first person dungeons on there. I guess I'm used to first person dungeons on the DS. I'm so spoiled.
does SMT IF map itself for you at least?
@@BlinJe No map at all. Imagine playing Strange Journey or Soul Hackers without the bottom screen. Or imagine a Metroidvania game that required you to memorize the entire game. You have to get the pen and paper.
@@Chelaxim Yeah. Metroid 1 and 2..
well... sheyyit.
Dude, I did that last Phantasy Star 2 Ikuto dungeon just recently because I had always loved Phantasy Star 1 and thought finishing 2 in my adulthood should be a goal. The pitfalls destroyed me there but it lead up to a decent ending with earthfolk having been the alien travellers to Algol to set up shop in the system. What a great social commentary, but the Dezoris dungeons and the fact that I never had any idea what magic ever did because it was was in Japanese really boggled my efforts; I found myself cross-referencing each hole with what it drops to (process of elimination mostly). Then I realized to move ahead I needed something different from an entirely different dungeon anyway. Ikuto is a loot dungeon really, right? How imploringly dreadful. Would you be willing to do a video on the secrets of Phantasy Star 1 dungeonfare?
Illusion of Gaia's Mu gave me months of rage (since I didn't have the game, and had to rent it over and over, and a lot of times people just deleted the save), and I had no clue I could slide through small holes...months and months of trial and error for something so simple to be the solution...
Lufia 2 had many dungeons like this,but is more because of the puzzles than anything,there were some hardcore puzzles in that game.Aaaaaand Breath of Fire 1.Just Breath of Fire 1.Almost every dungeon .If i have to give names probably the entire World of Dreams and Mare Tower.Or Tock Tower,man,i hate that place
Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei had one where EVERY OTHER FLOOR TILE was a trap space that would send you down one floor. To make matters worse, you have to deal with the (high) random encounter rate. I know it's a remake of a Famicom game but the fact that they left that dungeon in shows that they saw nothing wrong with it.
Ikuto is the worst. You can spend hours in there trying to get a weapon for a character who's not even in your party, because it's required to HAVE all the Nei equipment whether you can use it or not. (In fact, there's no possible party that can use every piece.)
There are several ways to get around Magimaster. Rasp and Osmose will actually kill him and a lack of mp will keep him from casting Ultima (But it takes like 45 minutes). Also the palidor esper when he's near death. In addition to life 3. Can gau rage? He has a really low level rage that casts life 3.
D. Dragon after transformation is weak to Tellah's tornado or weak spell.