I actually don't mind Air's Rock difficulty in Golden Sun 2. After going through the first game, this dungeon offers a nice challenge, it tests your spatial awareness (hi Mark Brown) and it has some nice music. But I agree that it can definitely catch newcomers off guard in terms of difficulty and length.
GS2 was actually the first one I ever played, and while I did get a bit irritated at how long and convoluted the dungeon was, I beat it in one sitting without using an online guide or anything.
@@denniselliott27 i find it odd that anyone would start on 2. according to the devs, it was originally intended to be one game, but it was too big so they had to split it into 2. but i guess not everyone would know that.
@@Jack_80 Listen, some people just never got their hands on the first game. I was a baby when it came out and never heard about it until much later. I only own DvE and still haven't gotten my hands on the OG GS. It's just impossible to find nowadays.
@@Nikita_Akashya i played them on my phone with a gba emulator and a ps4 controller and it was exactly like playing it on a gba. i think pretty much any phone can handle gba games fine.
While this is an otherwise excellent list, most of the things you listed about the Final Fantasy bonus dungeons are completely wrong in one way or another: - FF1's bonus dungeons open up as you defeat each of the Four Fiends, and in fact their bosses provide the closest thing to a challenge that can be found in that game. - Aside from FF1, FF2 and FF4, which have quite simple combat systems anyway, the bosses are hardly bags of HP, and aren't even that long - rather, each has their own special mechanics that you need to understand before you have a chance of success. - FF2's Soul of Rebirth is not so much a bonus dungeon as an epilogue, where you get to know what happened to all the characters that died during the game, and in FF4 Kain's trial is a very interesting and different challenge which explains his character quite well and probably even sets up the plot for The After Years. In short, you probably haven't played them much and made the entry without caring much about that. Aside from that though, it's a pretty solid list!
You forgot FFV's bonus dungeon. That labyrinth was really cool to me, because it culminated with a battle against Enuo, the original evil that got a hold over the Void's power.
Him saying that the bonus dungeons are the only incentive to buy the "lazy ports" is dumb, too. The GBA Final Fantasy games have completely retranslated scripts, and are generally considered the best translations, without all the weird mistranslations and changes of the originals. The scripts of all subsequent ports have been based on them.
Yeah, I came to say exactly this. The bonus dungeons in the GBA ports of the 2D FF games are really good additions. The only negative thing I have to say about them is that sometimes the layout of the map is really bad, like there's a lack of decorative elements, or there's cave walls that are inexplicably perfectly straight or square. I specifically enjoyed the character trials in FFIV Advance's lunar ruins, because, yes, it did progress the characters story or explain details about it. Heck, I even PREFER the bugged GBA version to the DS version just because of the two extra dungeons. (And also because you can swap characters in and out at the end.)
some people like the final fantasy bonus dungeons for the challenge, and technically ff2's isn't a bonus dungeon, it's another side of the story. albeit a grindy 1, and if the bonus dungeons you don't like, than most kingdom hearts super bosses would be on that list, but people still go for them anyway.
It makes me feel strange the fact that everyone hates Golden Sun's Air's Rock and its kinda my favorite part of the game lol Maybe i have TOO MUCH patience.
@@mentosmuncher I remember hating it on my first play-through due to continuously getting lost. Nowadays I really love it. If you do not really know the game just yet, that open world stretch of the game can really put you of.
Anemos Sanctum was even worse than that dungeon, to even get into the dungeon you needed 24 djinn from the first game and 48 more djinn in the second game. Most people never even got to begin the dungeon so guides on the dungeon in the 2000's were few and far between. The puzzles were harder than the rest of the game and the boss was near impossible to beat unless you djinn summon rushed.
@@oromisjosh3910 Yea, i remember that. Cool dungeon tho. It was obscure for two reasons: first, it is an optional dungeon, so it makes sense that it is extra difficult, and second, not everybody had the patience or both games to use the end game password data. And yea, the Dullahan is kinda BS, but once you got its pattern when he uses its insta kill move, its just kinda a patience run, just depleting its huge life bar. Also its a difficult boss cause most players got there with just 3 party members trained, and the other 3 just left forgotten lol W/out all 6 members its impossible.
I had a feeling Air's Rock would be on here! It wouldn't be that bad if it wasn't one of the earliest dungeons in the game. The other three rocks felt way shorter. Another annoying dungeon was the desert from the first Golden Sun just because your party never shuts up about how hot it is. :P
Honestly, when I played TLA as a kid I thought Air's Rock was really cool, because it really makes you feel like you're climbing an actual mountain, fighting for each step forward. But I guess I had a LOT of time as a kid so it's to be expected that length didn't bother me.
To be fair, FFV’s bonus dungeon was at least lore relevant and the Dragon Shrine in VI was a good way to use the Czar/Kaiser Dragon that was dummied out of the original VI
The FF1 Bonus Dungeons open up after you slay their respective fiend, making all four available well before the final boss, considering you can do the fiends in almost any order. The FF2 bonus dungeon is actually exactly what you're asking for, giving plot-relevant character development for characters who died prematurely throughout the plot of the main game, culminating in a dramatic showdown with the big bad from the main game! It's just a shame the dungeon itself is so hard and grindy, but it's FF2 so what else could we expect? The dungeons from IV-VI Advance are pretty much trash though, and I assume they're the ones who inspired the list entry, even though you use gameplay footage from all 5 games.
Even then, the FF1 dungeon, you have to run through the dungeons a total of 9 times!! That for 9 dungeons and fighting every boss and they take forever to run through...
Getting stronger weapons, more monsters to wipe out, and getting the additional espers is worth it for ff6. Ff5 allows to kill the ultimate evil, and ff4 sets up kains story.
The Version of Final Fantasy based on the GBA version expected trips to the Earthgift Shrine and Hellfire Chasm with potential trips to Level 10 Lifespring Grotto and Whisperwind Cove before fighting Chaos as he is harder than anything in there. Playing the Pixel Remaster which doesn't have these but still uses the stats it much larger leap in difficulty than the GBA, PSP, Mobile and 3DS versions alongside Healaga being nerfed by spell slots.
I have to correct you on Ff5 advance. When you go in to the void you go in to stop Enuo which the game tells you at the beginning created darkness. It’s the one game that actually continues the story.
in ff4 the bonus dungeons also set up the characters for the after years through their trials in the bonus dungeon, in ff2 the bonus dungeons are more of an epilog that do continue the story of the dead characters in the game, the only dungeons that don't contribute anything plot wise are the ff1 and ff6 bonus dungeons.
um, in the first battle network your hp heals completely after battle, not slowly over time. and future games removed between battle healing entirely. good thing they improved the roll chip so much with how multi hit chips handle power boosts.
As someone on the hunt for their missing Gameboy SP, this hurts me spiritually. I'd cut my losses and buy a new one, except this missing Gameboy had a copy of Super Mario Bros. 3 that I was 3/4ths of the way done with.
I honestly didn't mind the sky pillar at all. It was a reasonable challenge imo. How many other reflex reliant movement puzzles has pokemon had? At least they did something a bit different for once, and the penalty for failure was minimal: just get back up the previous floor or two. To me it's a welcome challenge in a series in which everything can be won by grinding or exploring. I honestly didn't think it was that hard either. The most difficult floors took like 5-10 tries, which isn't long at all if you consider they're ~30 seconds long as long as you brought repels.
Nice video as always, but I'm gonna have to disagree on the FF dungeons as well. There isn't really that much reason to add story stuff to a game that has already concluded its story. Extra dungeons are just that, extra dungeons. Story isn't the only appeal of RPGs. Exploration is part of that, and this is why people enjoy checking out supposedly hidden caves, and looking for superbosses to provide them a challenge. There is a simple and good enough reason for exploration: Curiosity. The fact that they are there lying in wait, and not particularly a necessity to encounter in the main plot adds that air of mystery to them that people have enough incentive to check them out and find out lies inside. The creatures lurking inside, the riches you can obtain, the stories you can get just by hopping into them having memorable tales of frustration and difficulty, and even those at wonder when you find cool stuff and overcame the challenges. It's the same reasons people like all the extra dungeons and legendaries you can obtain in pokemon. You don't NEED to catch the legendaries. You don't NEED them to play a major role in the story. You can get your badges, beat the big bad team, and win the league with the bare minimum. But, people often don't do that.The air of mystery and the thought of these dungeons encountering rare pokemon as they await is enough of a goal to plow through their dungeons and catch them yourself.
give golden sun lost age some credit, I think it was designed to be a direct sequel, both in plot and difficulty, but not the combat seeing you start at level 1. I've even heard the first game in it's entirety called a lengthy tutorial. heck, if it was a console game it would probably combine the 2 games as a disk 1 and disk 2. it's just the way they were made.
I was thinking something around those lines, I experienced the 2 gba golden sun games back to back and the puzzles for lost age do seem to start at what the first game left off in terms of difficulty. plus, a dungeon that's only accessible with all djinn from both games.
@@thencsmaster4343 Let's hope they continue straight from dark dawn as well. That game was too easy, and the plot only picked up at the end. It was meant for newcomers. Still had a blast though!
Bruh, the bonus dungeons in FF are exactly that: a bonus. They're for an extra challenge. How is that any more of a waste than post game content in any other genre? Most of the bonus dungeons and super bosses were fun imo.
I actually really enjoy the bonus dungeons in FFIV Advance. They serve a purpose, because in this version, you get to actually use and change all your previous party members. So you can find them level-appropriate equipment in the cave on Mt Ordeals. Then the Lunar Ruins after Zeromus provides interneting, unique puzzles and trials for each character with amazing rewards as you continue. The Brachioraidus and a more powerful Zeromus lie in wait for you for more challenge on your way to beating the game again. Tons of fun.
i actually likes air rock but i think that's because i play lost age right after the original golden sun so it felt more like playing disc 2 than playing a whole new game all together and as such i expect the dungeons to feel more intricate than the previous game.
The Sea Floor in Mother 3 was hilarious and fun. It was also really nice to explore, they didn't make getting to air machines difficult. Teehee Valley wasn't the worst but the experience gained after all the kidnappings made it less annoying. Some of these dungeons are made to be ridiculously long and difficult on purpose because some players love unfair situations like that. The tower mission in Phantasy Star 0 is a good example. The extra dungeons in the FF ports are terrible, though. I never bothered finishing them in 5 or 6 and only did a few in 4.
Well, in regard to the FF port bonus dungeons, I thought that FF2 (Dawn of Souls)'s bonus dungeon was fairly okay. You had an actual plot of sorts, with a second confrontation against the Emperor. And I liked how it gave you a chance to use all the characters that got killed off during the main game (they were really dropping like flies in that game). And FF1's bonus dungeons tried to do the sprinkling like you suggested, which helped things a little for me; they were still pretty hard, but I was pretty much alternating back and forth between them and the main plot for most of the game. Problem with those dungeons was more of a flaw with the game: the party characters are never fleshed out, so there's not really a chance to build on things in those extra adventures.
I feel vindicated that the Elec Man dungeon made it on here. That place has ended both attempts I've had at playing BN1 so far. (I'll beat it some day.)
Out of all of these 10. The power plant was the only dungeon where I had to use a guide I also Remember the Golden Sun Lost Age one I think was the Air Rock or something, was pretty easy and fun
The sky pillar while optional, is the only way you can go to catch rayquaza which is a strong pokemon at level 70. Also the wild pokemon are of higher level in the area like victory road in emerald (lv40+) and much stronger in ruby or sapphire (lv50+).
I nearly lose myself when I got lost and confused in the bonus dungeons of Final Fantasy 1 dawn of souls. The worst ones for me is when you enter the bonus dungeon that led you to the a large island located near bahamut's domain. I believed it's called Hellfire 17. The other is tiamat's bonus dungeon of 40 levels. The most annoying one is the part where you have to find the right kid. It's quite easy though until you have To go back and find the right house where The exit is.
I remember that sky pillar and dewford cave in the pokemon heonn region on gba. While dewford cave is option stuff in there, the sky pillar is where you go to catch rayquaza and is required in the story for pokemon emerald with all the mach bike problems, but you should be able to get plenty of repels to avoid the random pokemon to make the area easier to go up to rayquaza.
I knew Elec Man would be on here. The sequels had some annoying level gimmicks too, but none as bad as that place. I would rather fight the original Elec Man in Mega Man 1 without the Rolling Cutter than do this level again. Nothing in the DS RPG lineup really jumps out at me the way that did, but if Zelda counts then the entire Ocean King Temple from Phantom Hourglass is a good contender, as is Shroob Castle from Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time.
Like this page and what I do here? Consider supporting me on patreon! www.patreon.com/davidvinc [0:40] - 10) The Ancient Cave - Lufia: The Ruins of Lore [2:05] - 9) The Bonus Dungeons - Final Fantasy 1, 2, 4, 5, and 6 [3:24] - 8) Oriental Blue - Kuroyume Castle [4:26] - 7) The Sky Pillar - Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire [5:27] - 6) The Seafloor - Mother 3 [6:35] - 5) The Azure Sky Tower - Boktai: The Sun is in Your Hands [7:48] - 4) The Forgotten Planet - Sigma Star Saga [8:54] - 3) Teehee Valley - Mario and Luigi Super Star Saga [9:57] - 2) Air's Rock - Golden Sun: The Lost Age [11:31] - 1) The Powerplant - Megaman Battle Network
I must disagree with the final fantasy dungeons, yes they dont add anything to the story of the games, but at that point it was kind of pointless to add anything new to them, especially since most of these games were already more than 10 years old when they got ported, square enix's best move was to just add more challenging enemies and some new equipment into the game, they're optional for a reason, ofc the exception is final fantasy 2 which was actually tied to the story. i think we should be thankful that they didnt add anything to the story, just look at games like FFXV and the news about a sequel for FFX-2, they actively try to ruin the stories of these games, atleast they didnt do shit like this in the gba games, they just added a few more hours of challenge
I don't know which one I hated more the seafloor from mother 3 or sky pillar from Pokemon Sapphire. Nevermind I posted this without seeing the full video my bad. Airs rock from Golden sun lost age can die a slow and painful death. I hated that crap stain of a dungeon.
Oh, God! I had totally forgotten about that Mach Bike BS in Sky Pillar Tower! My PTSD is returning. Air's Rock must have been what Master Hama was really referring to in the first Golden Sun when she said something about Felix having a terrible burden to bear or something that she wouldn't wish on anyone. XD
I stopped playing Mother 3 during the sea floor dungeon. I was REALLY enjoying the game up until then and I must’ve lost steam. Haven’t picked it back up since but I know I should!
Really like your content dude. Have a playlist of your top tens saved that I revisit every few months after playing some of the games you refer to in said top ten lists. Now I guess it’s time to grip Final Fantasy VI Advanced to experience what appears to be a pretty silly extra dungeon tacked onto my favorite RPG of all time. 😑
Hmm, I don't even remember that dungeon in Golden Sun 2. It couldn't have bothered me too much, but I think difficult encounters or obnoxious punishments generally bother me more than tricky puzzles (dungeon length can be an issue, which is a problem with many Tales of final dungeons that go on forever). While I seem to have forgotten much of it, I don't think I disliked the FFVI GBA bonus dungeon that much. I may have even liked it? However, I definitely recall that the Chrono Trigger DS bonus dungeons are atrocious, so I hope you make an exception for those, too. Will you do some lists on the best dungeons? Some positivity can be good to balance out the bad dungeons.
The explanation of the tower in Boktai made my head spin. Of course they snuck in something that required the Gameboy link cable as well! Awesome list!
Golden Sun fan here. If you don't like Airs Rock, what is different with the other 3 elemental rock dungeons that kept them off this list? Airs Rock, Aqua Rock, Gaia Rock, and Magma Rock are all two part dungeons with an interior and an exterior that contain puzzles respective to each element. Also, you can use a Sacred Feather if you're worried about random encounters. I'm surprised you didn't talk about the maze going up to the Serpent in Gaia Rock or Lamakin Desert in Golden Sun
I had to look up a guide for number one. I've only done Sky Pillar in Emerald and ORAS, so the worst for me is Seafloor Cavern. I kept getting lost in that room with the currents.
I was stuck on the Seafloor in M3 for like 2 weeks, only because I thought I had reached a dead end, when really it was just the graphics appearing to obscure an open path with a wall or something.
What is that music playing during the battle network section? I also agree. I hated that part. Such a massive time sink and then ending off with a back to back boss battle. Talk about brutal.
I remember Air Rock dungeon that was painful to go through it almost made me thing after completing it i assume the rest of the dungeons would be like this.
First off I want to say I love your vids sir. I keep watching and waiting for you to include dq8 on this list but I of course realize it won't as the dungeons in that game were so we'll designed. I would still love to see you talk about dq8 in some capacity. Maybe you have and I haven't encountered it yet.
The FF bonus dungeons were variable, some good, some bad. 1, I liked the bonus dungeons though the concept was simple. 2 was weak, the problem with that game is that all the characters are nearly interchangeable, so it adds nothing. 4, some of them had cool puzzles, and one actually developed my favorite character in the game. 5, too much backtracking! And it was more "tricky" than challenging, where you have to know how to manipulate job classes to win. 6 was fun for the gameplay and challenges of the new bosses.
First time commenting so firstly, I love your content! I agree with the FF GBA ports except for FF IV Advance. There are actually story elements in the bonus dungeon. Kain's scenario is a particular standout.
I partway through the interior of air's rock and the game crashed. I loaded my save file and I was outside. After a break I played through again, and while i completed it, it definently hurt my urge to keep playing... One of these days I should replay 1 and finally complete more than like the first quarter of 2
The Mother 3 Seafloor wasn't horrible--if nothing else, it was short. And the "kisses" from the mermen air machines were hilarious. But I can see the air meter being a pain.
Never played the Gameboy Lufia game, but I had to message how much I hate Eldin's movement in battle. It looks like he's riding something hard, but he is all back...
I kind of disagree on the extra content in the GBA Final Fantasy games. I really enjoyed killing all the dragon bosses in FF6 and going through the FF1&2 games for the extra content. FF1 had a double boss battle that was ridiculously hard but was satisfying to take it down. FF4 the extended dungeon really took me some time to figure it out. Those damn Metal face encounters were massively annoying. Mainly because the GBA games might have had the difficulted tuned way down to easy for Western players so wanted to make sure I was getting a challenge.
I think you are missing the point of a bonus dungeon in games. They are meant to test your skills in the game. The gear is a bonus to that. Is there a reason to do the Chrysler Building in Parasite Eve besides for fun?
Again very interesting. About the bonus dungeons. Even though I know they aren't worth I often play them myself. I guess they are only for people how think the main game was too easy or those who can't have enough of the gameplay.
Huh ? I never found Air's rock to be annoying... Long , yes but not a bad dungeon design . In fact , comparing to the other dungeons , I'd say this is where the game gets serious . But I admit that future dungeons where frustrating due to an extremely high random encounter rate . My choice is either towers or that damn inner sanctum
Well i did'nt have a problem on the air rock part, um.... maybe just a slight difficulties cause that part was very confusing on the golden sun, but i've already finished this game recently and it was a very great game and i love the ending totally worth it😆
I gotta say I would have picked the team aqua base near lilycove for the pokemon dungeon its a teleporter dungeon so you advance mostly by trail and error and it also has exploding mimics that ruin your day especially if you are playing a nuzlocke run
Here's what, in my opinion, is one of the worst designed maps in any game I've ever played. Fire Emblem 7's chapter "Living Legend", mainly the Hector Hard Mode version of it. I love the Fire Emblem games, but damn is it a badly designed map. There's only one real reason I think it's so abysmal. You can just die on turn 1 for no fault of your own. You have to defend Pent, an NPC, but 'cause of his starting position, he can be KOed on turn 1 if the Archer and the two Wyvern Riders hit him on turn 1 (I've had this happen before, so I know it can happen), and he can't move until after the enemies, and he will probably move away from you. At least in Arcadia, the map that everyone likes to hate on in FE 6, which is very similar, Sophia is controlled by the player, and it's completely your fault if she dies as she starts right with the rest of your army, and you can just move her out of the way. Pent can just die on turn 1, and you don't have enough movement to reach him until turn 3 with Florina, Fiora or Heath if they're promoted, (And there's no way that Heath is promoted at this point, 'cause he just joined in a defend map last chapter). Even without this fact, it's still a Fog Of War desert map that's also a rout map with a bunch of annoying enemies that keep coming for quite a while. It's effectively just like "Bash Florina, Heath and Fiora into a bunch of Wyvern Riders" the chapter, and Pent just keeps throwing himself into enemies, and while he easily one-rounds everything but a few Shamans and the bosses, he is frail enough to just die at any point, especially if he fights the bosses. The bosses aren't threatening if you fight them at two range, but if you don't KO them in one turn, you can just die. At least you get Hawkeye in this chapter, who's a pretty good pre-promote, but like all foot units bar mages, has his move halved this chapter.
Air's Rock is the singlemost reason I never finished Golden Sun 2. I love Golden Sun 1 to bits and replay it a lot, but every time I finish Air's Rock in 2 I'm like "Yeah, no thanks. I don't want to do this any more." It gives me an impression that the future dungeons are only going to get worse than that one since it's so early in the game.
#3 - Oof... I honestly didn't hate the Mother 3 one that bad, this is the only on the GBA list at least that I remember hating... a freaking escort mission like this... Everyone hates escort missions man. XD Shit, it makes no sense either compared to the games where she can actually fight... and at least Paper Mario was somewhat fun when you play as her around Bowser's Castle, except maybe the cake making crap. :p
I think Final Fantasy dungeons were funny to play although kinda hard (Final Fantasy 1 isn't that much after 4 fiends defeated) I think the worst one is from FFII
![Top 40 Best PS1 Hidden Gems [You Must Play]](/img/n.gif)
I actually don't mind Air's Rock difficulty in Golden Sun 2. After going through the first game, this dungeon offers a nice challenge, it tests your spatial awareness (hi Mark Brown) and it has some nice music. But I agree that it can definitely catch newcomers off guard in terms of difficulty and length.
GS2 was actually the first one I ever played, and while I did get a bit irritated at how long and convoluted the dungeon was, I beat it in one sitting without using an online guide or anything.
@@denniselliott27 i find it odd that anyone would start on 2. according to the devs, it was originally intended to be one game, but it was too big so they had to split it into 2.
but i guess not everyone would know that.
@@Jack_80 Listen, some people just never got their hands on the first game. I was a baby when it came out and never heard about it until much later. I only own DvE and still haven't gotten my hands on the OG GS. It's just impossible to find nowadays.
@@Nikita_Akashya i played them on my phone with a gba emulator and a ps4 controller and it was exactly like playing it on a gba. i think pretty much any phone can handle gba games fine.
I am a simple RPG gamer. I see a pic of Golden Sun, I click.
While this is an otherwise excellent list, most of the things you listed about the Final Fantasy bonus dungeons are completely wrong in one way or another:
- FF1's bonus dungeons open up as you defeat each of the Four Fiends, and in fact their bosses provide the closest thing to a challenge that can be found in that game.
- Aside from FF1, FF2 and FF4, which have quite simple combat systems anyway, the bosses are hardly bags of HP, and aren't even that long - rather, each has their own special mechanics that you need to understand before you have a chance of success.
- FF2's Soul of Rebirth is not so much a bonus dungeon as an epilogue, where you get to know what happened to all the characters that died during the game, and in FF4 Kain's trial is a very interesting and different challenge which explains his character quite well and probably even sets up the plot for The After Years.
In short, you probably haven't played them much and made the entry without caring much about that.
Aside from that though, it's a pretty solid list!
You forgot FFV's bonus dungeon. That labyrinth was really cool to me, because it culminated with a battle against Enuo, the original evil that got a hold over the Void's power.
Him saying that the bonus dungeons are the only incentive to buy the "lazy ports" is dumb, too. The GBA Final Fantasy games have completely retranslated scripts, and are generally considered the best translations, without all the weird mistranslations and changes of the originals. The scripts of all subsequent ports have been based on them.
I enjoyed FF6’s Dragon Cave. But, I’m biased in favor of FF6. Also, I enjoyed solo-ing the final boss with only Mog.
You guys are nerds
Yeah, I came to say exactly this. The bonus dungeons in the GBA ports of the 2D FF games are really good additions. The only negative thing I have to say about them is that sometimes the layout of the map is really bad, like there's a lack of decorative elements, or there's cave walls that are inexplicably perfectly straight or square. I specifically enjoyed the character trials in FFIV Advance's lunar ruins, because, yes, it did progress the characters story or explain details about it. Heck, I even PREFER the bugged GBA version to the DS version just because of the two extra dungeons. (And also because you can swap characters in and out at the end.)
I.... Really liked the bonus dungeons? I like when ports add something, even if it's pointless. They also do add to the plot in FF2.
Plus 4 of the bonus dungeons in FF1 unlock as you beat the fiends.
some people like the final fantasy bonus dungeons for the challenge, and technically ff2's isn't a bonus dungeon, it's another side of the story. albeit a grindy 1, and if the bonus dungeons you don't like, than most kingdom hearts super bosses would be on that list, but people still go for them anyway.
To be fair that part in FF2 where the dead party members go to fight the other emperor wasn't in the original version to begin with.
@@vintagegamer695 it isn't a bonus dungeon, though, considering it's a whole new chapter that's about a quarter of the length of the main game.
@@Slappaccino Which was not in the original Famicom release.
@@vintagegamer695 I know, but it's not a bonus dungeon. It's a full story expansion and ending.
It makes me feel strange the fact that everyone hates Golden Sun's Air's Rock and its kinda my favorite part of the game lol Maybe i have TOO MUCH patience.
same tbh i just really like puzzles
I breezed through it even considering all the trial and error I had
@@mentosmuncher I remember hating it on my first play-through due to continuously getting lost. Nowadays I really love it. If you do not really know the game just yet, that open world stretch of the game can really put you of.
Anemos Sanctum was even worse than that dungeon, to even get into the dungeon you needed 24 djinn from the first game and 48 more djinn in the second game. Most people never even got to begin the dungeon so guides on the dungeon in the 2000's were few and far between. The puzzles were harder than the rest of the game and the boss was near impossible to beat unless you djinn summon rushed.
@@oromisjosh3910 Yea, i remember that. Cool dungeon tho. It was obscure for two reasons: first, it is an optional dungeon, so it makes sense that it is extra difficult, and second, not everybody had the patience or both games to use the end game password data. And yea, the Dullahan is kinda BS, but once you got its pattern when he uses its insta kill move, its just kinda a patience run, just depleting its huge life bar. Also its a difficult boss cause most players got there with just 3 party members trained, and the other 3 just left forgotten lol W/out all 6 members its impossible.
I had a feeling Air's Rock would be on here! It wouldn't be that bad if it wasn't one of the earliest dungeons in the game. The other three rocks felt way shorter.
Another annoying dungeon was the desert from the first Golden Sun just because your party never shuts up about how hot it is. :P
Honestly, when I played TLA as a kid I thought Air's Rock was really cool, because it really makes you feel like you're climbing an actual mountain, fighting for each step forward. But I guess I had a LOT of time as a kid so it's to be expected that length didn't bother me.
zkitty8 Oh god the desert! That area was such a pain for so many reasons...
Lamakin Desert was pretty annoying tbh. I would have preferred that in this list over Airs Rock.
To be fair, FFV’s bonus dungeon was at least lore relevant and the Dragon Shrine in VI was a good way to use the Czar/Kaiser Dragon that was dummied out of the original VI
The FF1 Bonus Dungeons open up after you slay their respective fiend, making all four available well before the final boss, considering you can do the fiends in almost any order. The FF2 bonus dungeon is actually exactly what you're asking for, giving plot-relevant character development for characters who died prematurely throughout the plot of the main game, culminating in a dramatic showdown with the big bad from the main game! It's just a shame the dungeon itself is so hard and grindy, but it's FF2 so what else could we expect? The dungeons from IV-VI Advance are pretty much trash though, and I assume they're the ones who inspired the list entry, even though you use gameplay footage from all 5 games.
Even then, the FF1 dungeon, you have to run through the dungeons a total of 9 times!! That for 9 dungeons and fighting every boss and they take forever to run through...
Getting stronger weapons, more monsters to wipe out, and getting the additional espers is worth it for ff6. Ff5 allows to kill the ultimate evil, and ff4 sets up kains story.
The Version of Final Fantasy based on the GBA version expected trips to the Earthgift Shrine and Hellfire Chasm with potential trips to Level 10 Lifespring Grotto and Whisperwind Cove before fighting Chaos as he is harder than anything in there. Playing the Pixel Remaster which doesn't have these but still uses the stats it much larger leap in difficulty than the GBA, PSP, Mobile and 3DS versions alongside Healaga being nerfed by spell slots.
I want Final Fantasy VI on the Nintendo 3DS as a 3D remake akin to those Final Fantasy 3D remakes on the Nintendo DS.
I have to correct you on Ff5 advance. When you go in to the void you go in to stop Enuo which the game tells you at the beginning created darkness. It’s the one game that actually continues the story.
in ff4 the bonus dungeons also set up the characters for the after years through their trials in the bonus dungeon, in ff2 the bonus dungeons are more of an epilog that do continue the story of the dead characters in the game, the only dungeons that don't contribute anything plot wise are the ff1 and ff6 bonus dungeons.
Yeah I get the feeling this guy isn't a big FF fan. He has peddled misinformation in other videos, too.
that, and ff1 bonus dungeon is sprinkled throughout the game, hell, the first one is open as soon as you kill the lich
um, in the first battle network your hp heals completely after battle, not slowly over time. and future games removed between battle healing entirely. good thing they improved the roll chip so much with how multi hit chips handle power boosts.
As someone on the hunt for their missing Gameboy SP, this hurts me spiritually. I'd cut my losses and buy a new one, except this missing Gameboy had a copy of Super Mario Bros. 3 that I was 3/4ths of the way done with.
I honestly didn't mind the sky pillar at all. It was a reasonable challenge imo. How many other reflex reliant movement puzzles has pokemon had? At least they did something a bit different for once, and the penalty for failure was minimal: just get back up the previous floor or two. To me it's a welcome challenge in a series in which everything can be won by grinding or exploring.
I honestly didn't think it was that hard either. The most difficult floors took like 5-10 tries, which isn't long at all if you consider they're ~30 seconds long as long as you brought repels.
I loooved the Dawn of Souls bonus dungeons, they're just there for an extra challenge and as a love letter to the other games.
Nice video as always, but I'm gonna have to disagree on the FF dungeons as well. There isn't really that much reason to add story stuff to a game that has already concluded its story. Extra dungeons are just that, extra dungeons. Story isn't the only appeal of RPGs. Exploration is part of that, and this is why people enjoy checking out supposedly hidden caves, and looking for superbosses to provide them a challenge.
There is a simple and good enough reason for exploration: Curiosity. The fact that they are there lying in wait, and not particularly a necessity to encounter in the main plot adds that air of mystery to them that people have enough incentive to check them out and find out lies inside. The creatures lurking inside, the riches you can obtain, the stories you can get just by hopping into them having memorable tales of frustration and difficulty, and even those at wonder when you find cool stuff and overcame the challenges.
It's the same reasons people like all the extra dungeons and legendaries you can obtain in pokemon. You don't NEED to catch the legendaries. You don't NEED them to play a major role in the story. You can get your badges, beat the big bad team, and win the league with the bare minimum. But, people often don't do that.The air of mystery and the thought of these dungeons encountering rare pokemon as they await is enough of a goal to plow through their dungeons and catch them yourself.
give golden sun lost age some credit, I think it was designed to be a direct sequel, both in plot and difficulty, but not the combat seeing you start at level 1. I've even heard the first game in it's entirety called a lengthy tutorial. heck, if it was a console game it would probably combine the 2 games as a disk 1 and disk 2. it's just the way they were made.
It was once designed to be just one game. But it was so huge they decided to split it!
I was thinking something around those lines, I experienced the 2 gba golden sun games back to back and the puzzles for lost age do seem to start at what the first game left off in terms of difficulty. plus, a dungeon that's only accessible with all djinn from both games.
fenni ken We seriously need a 4th game
@@thencsmaster4343
Let's hope they continue straight from dark dawn as well.
That game was too easy, and the plot only picked up at the end. It was meant for newcomers.
Still had a blast though!
garfreeek i want a prequil where you play as Alex
Bruh, the bonus dungeons in FF are exactly that: a bonus. They're for an extra challenge. How is that any more of a waste than post game content in any other genre? Most of the bonus dungeons and super bosses were fun imo.
I actually really enjoy the bonus dungeons in FFIV Advance. They serve a purpose, because in this version, you get to actually use and change all your previous party members. So you can find them level-appropriate equipment in the cave on Mt Ordeals. Then the Lunar Ruins after Zeromus provides interneting, unique puzzles and trials for each character with amazing rewards as you continue. The Brachioraidus and a more powerful Zeromus lie in wait for you for more challenge on your way to beating the game again. Tons of fun.
i actually likes air rock but i think that's because i play lost age right after the original golden sun so it felt more like playing disc 2 than playing a whole new game all together and as such i expect the dungeons to feel more intricate than the previous game.
The Sea Floor in Mother 3 was hilarious and fun. It was also really nice to explore, they didn't make getting to air machines difficult.
Teehee Valley wasn't the worst but the experience gained after all the kidnappings made it less annoying.
Some of these dungeons are made to be ridiculously long and difficult on purpose because some players love unfair situations like that. The tower mission in Phantasy Star 0 is a good example.
The extra dungeons in the FF ports are terrible, though. I never bothered finishing them in 5 or 6 and only did a few in 4.
Well, in regard to the FF port bonus dungeons, I thought that FF2 (Dawn of Souls)'s bonus dungeon was fairly okay. You had an actual plot of sorts, with a second confrontation against the Emperor. And I liked how it gave you a chance to use all the characters that got killed off during the main game (they were really dropping like flies in that game).
And FF1's bonus dungeons tried to do the sprinkling like you suggested, which helped things a little for me; they were still pretty hard, but I was pretty much alternating back and forth between them and the main plot for most of the game. Problem with those dungeons was more of a flaw with the game: the party characters are never fleshed out, so there's not really a chance to build on things in those extra adventures.
I feel vindicated that the Elec Man dungeon made it on here. That place has ended both attempts I've had at playing BN1 so far. (I'll beat it some day.)
Out of all of these 10. The power plant was the only dungeon where I had to use a guide
I also Remember the Golden Sun Lost Age one I think was the Air Rock or something, was pretty easy and fun
The sky pillar while optional, is the only way you can go to catch rayquaza which is a strong pokemon at level 70. Also the wild pokemon are of higher level in the area like victory road in emerald (lv40+) and much stronger in ruby or sapphire (lv50+).
I nearly lose myself when I got lost and confused in the bonus dungeons of Final Fantasy 1 dawn of souls. The worst ones for me is when you enter the bonus dungeon that led you to the a large island located near bahamut's domain. I believed it's called Hellfire 17. The other is tiamat's bonus dungeon of 40 levels. The most annoying one is the part where you have to find the right kid. It's quite easy though until you have To go back and find the right house where The exit is.
Testing your spatial awareness? What does that mean.
Air's Rock is Legendary, I wish they made games as difficult as they used to :(
I remember that sky pillar and dewford cave in the pokemon heonn region on gba. While dewford cave is option stuff in there, the sky pillar is where you go to catch rayquaza and is required in the story for pokemon emerald with all the mach bike problems, but you should be able to get plenty of repels to avoid the random pokemon to make the area easier to go up to rayquaza.
I knew Elec Man would be on here. The sequels had some annoying level gimmicks too, but none as bad as that place. I would rather fight the original Elec Man in Mega Man 1 without the Rolling Cutter than do this level again.
Nothing in the DS RPG lineup really jumps out at me the way that did, but if Zelda counts then the entire Ocean King Temple from Phantom Hourglass is a good contender, as is Shroob Castle from Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time.
I'm loving your #1 pick becuase I literally put my playthrough on pause because of this stupid dungeon
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[0:40] - 10) The Ancient Cave - Lufia: The Ruins of Lore
[2:05] - 9) The Bonus Dungeons - Final Fantasy 1, 2, 4, 5, and 6
[3:24] - 8) Oriental Blue - Kuroyume Castle
[4:26] - 7) The Sky Pillar - Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire
[5:27] - 6) The Seafloor - Mother 3
[6:35] - 5) The Azure Sky Tower - Boktai: The Sun is in Your Hands
[7:48] - 4) The Forgotten Planet - Sigma Star Saga
[8:54] - 3) Teehee Valley - Mario and Luigi Super Star Saga
[9:57] - 2) Air's Rock - Golden Sun: The Lost Age
[11:31] - 1) The Powerplant - Megaman Battle Network
I must disagree with the final fantasy dungeons, yes they dont add anything to the story of the games, but at that point it was kind of pointless to add anything new to them, especially since most of these games were already more than 10 years old when they got ported, square enix's best move was to just add more challenging enemies and some new equipment into the game, they're optional for a reason, ofc the exception is final fantasy 2 which was actually tied to the story. i think we should be thankful that they didnt add anything to the story, just look at games like FFXV and the news about a sequel for FFX-2, they actively try to ruin the stories of these games, atleast they didnt do shit like this in the gba games, they just added a few more hours of challenge
Good video! Just wondering, are you still going to do the part 2 video of the strangest RPGs?
Yes, probably after the DS video. At the moment I’m about halfway through with the next strangest RPGs script.
I don't know which one I hated more the seafloor from mother 3 or sky pillar from Pokemon Sapphire. Nevermind I posted this without seeing the full video my bad. Airs rock from Golden sun lost age can die a slow and painful death. I hated that crap stain of a dungeon.
Oh, God! I had totally forgotten about that Mach Bike BS in Sky Pillar Tower! My PTSD is returning.
Air's Rock must have been what Master Hama was really referring to in the first Golden Sun when she said something about Felix having a terrible burden to bear or something that she wouldn't wish on anyone. XD
I stopped playing Mother 3 during the sea floor dungeon. I was REALLY enjoying the game up until then and I must’ve lost steam. Haven’t picked it back up since but I know I should!
It gets easier after you memorize it.
Counselor: It's okay. Air's Rock isn't real. It can't hurt you.
Air's Rock Music: *Plays 32 bit chanting*
Water Temple ;---------------------;. I know, I know! It is not a bad dungeon, but its a difficult one.
Really like your content dude. Have a playlist of your top tens saved that I revisit every few months after playing some of the games you refer to in said top ten lists. Now I guess it’s time to grip Final Fantasy VI Advanced to experience what appears to be a pretty silly extra dungeon tacked onto my favorite RPG of all time. 😑
Hmm, I don't even remember that dungeon in Golden Sun 2. It couldn't have bothered me too much, but I think difficult encounters or obnoxious punishments generally bother me more than tricky puzzles (dungeon length can be an issue, which is a problem with many Tales of final dungeons that go on forever). While I seem to have forgotten much of it, I don't think I disliked the FFVI GBA bonus dungeon that much. I may have even liked it? However, I definitely recall that the Chrono Trigger DS bonus dungeons are atrocious, so I hope you make an exception for those, too.
Will you do some lists on the best dungeons? Some positivity can be good to balance out the bad dungeons.
Air's Rock is fine. Gaia Rock is a lot worse especially with its uninspired "use Growth a bunch of times" puzzle.
The explanation of the tower in Boktai made my head spin. Of course they snuck in something that required the Gameboy link cable as well! Awesome list!
Love your videos, keep ‘em coming!!!
Golden Sun fan here. If you don't like Airs Rock, what is different with the other 3 elemental rock dungeons that kept them off this list? Airs Rock, Aqua Rock, Gaia Rock, and Magma Rock are all two part dungeons with an interior and an exterior that contain puzzles respective to each element. Also, you can use a Sacred Feather if you're worried about random encounters. I'm surprised you didn't talk about the maze going up to the Serpent in Gaia Rock or Lamakin Desert in Golden Sun
I spent an entire summer doing all the playthroughs and trades to get all the emblems in Boktai a few years ago. One day I'll conquer that tower.
Another great video. The FF bonus dungeons were awesome, though...
That megaman battle network level brought back some horrible memories. That dungeon alone stopped me from completing the game to this day
I had to look up a guide for number one. I've only done Sky Pillar in Emerald and ORAS, so the worst for me is Seafloor Cavern. I kept getting lost in that room with the currents.
Air's rock was a fantastic dungeon, I loved every second of it. Golden Sun, especially Lost Age, had particularly great dungeons.
Indeed, The Lost Age was awesome, and I enjoyed Air's Rock even though it was tough as nails.
The Lost Age is one of my favorite GBA games. How could you go wrong with great music and cool summons
I was stuck on the Seafloor in M3 for like 2 weeks, only because I thought I had reached a dead end, when really it was just the graphics appearing to obscure an open path with a wall or something.
W..what? an RPG / scrolling shooter crossover!?
EEEEEEE!!!!
my mind is telling me it's a bad idea but.. I have to look into this.
Oh Air's rock, that mp draining location still has me stuck.
What is that music playing during the battle network section?
I also agree. I hated that part. Such a massive time sink and then ending off with a back to back boss battle. Talk about brutal.
I remember Air Rock dungeon that was painful to go through it almost made me thing after completing it i assume the rest of the dungeons would be like this.
I absolutely love your voice David. You sound like a nerdy, gay, Jew, but you know such an impressive amount about RPGs.
Well you got two out of three right, lol!
First off I want to say I love your vids sir. I keep watching and waiting for you to include dq8 on this list but I of course realize it won't as the dungeons in that game were so we'll designed. I would still love to see you talk about dq8 in some capacity. Maybe you have and I haven't encountered it yet.
The FF bonus dungeons were variable, some good, some bad.
1, I liked the bonus dungeons though the concept was simple. 2 was weak, the problem with that game is that all the characters are nearly interchangeable, so it adds nothing. 4, some of them had cool puzzles, and one actually developed my favorite character in the game. 5, too much backtracking! And it was more "tricky" than challenging, where you have to know how to manipulate job classes to win. 6 was fun for the gameplay and challenges of the new bosses.
First time commenting so firstly, I love your content! I agree with the FF GBA ports except for FF IV Advance. There are actually story elements in the bonus dungeon. Kain's scenario is a particular standout.
I partway through the interior of air's rock and the game crashed. I loaded my save file and I was outside.
After a break I played through again, and while i completed it, it definently hurt my urge to keep playing...
One of these days I should replay 1 and finally complete more than like the first quarter of 2
The Mother 3 Seafloor wasn't horrible--if nothing else, it was short. And the "kisses" from the mermen air machines were hilarious. But I can see the air meter being a pain.
Whew lad, I did a search for if you made a video like this like half an hour ago and here it is haha
MM battle network used to do horribly annoying shit like “Go talk to everyone in the town”.
Never played the Gameboy Lufia game, but I had to message how much I hate Eldin's movement in battle. It looks like he's riding something hard, but he is all back...
The attic from MOTHER 3 better be here :()
Of yeah the sea floor also sucks
The bonus dungeons in FF1 port to psp are actually amazing with the rearranged boss battle songs
Airs rock? It may feel that way the first time around. Now I speed though that dungeon in a mere 10-15 min.
I kind of disagree on the extra content in the GBA Final Fantasy games. I really enjoyed killing all the dragon bosses in FF6 and going through the FF1&2 games for the extra content. FF1 had a double boss battle that was ridiculously hard but was satisfying to take it down. FF4 the extended dungeon really took me some time to figure it out. Those damn Metal face encounters were massively annoying. Mainly because the GBA games might have had the difficulted tuned way down to easy for Western players so wanted to make sure I was getting a challenge.
I think you are missing the point of a bonus dungeon in games. They are meant to test your skills in the game. The gear is a bonus to that. Is there a reason to do the Chrysler Building in Parasite Eve besides for fun?
I agree with megaman battle network but I find the dungeon more tedious is that of tenguman in battle network 6
I kinda liked the bonus dungeons in FF1 port. I was so overleveled when I reached final boss, post game dungeons were nice challenge
how long does it usually take you to create such a video, and where do you get the footage from?
Again very interesting.
About the bonus dungeons. Even though I know they aren't worth I often play them myself. I guess they are only for people how think the main game was too easy or those who can't have enough of the gameplay.
Huh ? I never found Air's rock to be annoying... Long , yes but not a bad dungeon design . In fact , comparing to the other dungeons , I'd say this is where the game gets serious .
But I admit that future dungeons where frustrating due to an extremely high random encounter rate . My choice is either towers or that damn inner sanctum
I actually usually have a much more annoying experience in Kibombo or whatever the area with the giant statue is in GS.
Seeing air rock go past on this list made my rpg PTSD act up... then megaman powerplant showed up then it made it double
*sees mother 3 in the thumbnail*
*TRIGGERED*
Is this my birthday gift????
Happy birthday!
Happy 1 day closer to dying
Well i did'nt have a problem on the air rock part, um.... maybe just a slight difficulties cause that part was very confusing on the golden sun, but i've already finished this game recently and it was a very great game and i love the ending totally worth it😆
I know the pain of the FF bonus dungeons. I feel your pain.
I gotta say I would have picked the team aqua base near lilycove for the pokemon dungeon
its a teleporter dungeon so you advance mostly by trail and error and it also has exploding mimics that ruin your day especially if you are playing a nuzlocke run
Here's what, in my opinion, is one of the worst designed maps in any game I've ever played. Fire Emblem 7's chapter "Living Legend", mainly the Hector Hard Mode version of it. I love the Fire Emblem games, but damn is it a badly designed map.
There's only one real reason I think it's so abysmal. You can just die on turn 1 for no fault of your own. You have to defend Pent, an NPC, but 'cause of his starting position, he can be KOed on turn 1 if the Archer and the two Wyvern Riders hit him on turn 1 (I've had this happen before, so I know it can happen), and he can't move until after the enemies, and he will probably move away from you. At least in Arcadia, the map that everyone likes to hate on in FE 6, which is very similar, Sophia is controlled by the player, and it's completely your fault if she dies as she starts right with the rest of your army, and you can just move her out of the way. Pent can just die on turn 1, and you don't have enough movement to reach him until turn 3 with Florina, Fiora or Heath if they're promoted, (And there's no way that Heath is promoted at this point, 'cause he just joined in a defend map last chapter).
Even without this fact, it's still a Fog Of War desert map that's also a rout map with a bunch of annoying enemies that keep coming for quite a while. It's effectively just like "Bash Florina, Heath and Fiora into a bunch of Wyvern Riders" the chapter, and Pent just keeps throwing himself into enemies, and while he easily one-rounds everything but a few Shamans and the bosses, he is frail enough to just die at any point, especially if he fights the bosses. The bosses aren't threatening if you fight them at two range, but if you don't KO them in one turn, you can just die. At least you get Hawkeye in this chapter, who's a pretty good pre-promote, but like all foot units bar mages, has his move halved this chapter.
Airs rock is a lot better once you realize that it's actually very easy to break
#10, that game does have it's fans, it made a top 10 obscure gba rpgs list.
How to make a top 10 worst RPG Dungeons video:
1. Choose 10 normal random dungeons.
2. Complain.
Sky Pillar was probably changed in Emerald because there it's mandatroy for completing the story. Also, shouldn't it count as a bonus dungeon?
in Emerald it isn't cracked the first time you visit
I know, that's what I said. as I mentioned, the change was probably made because the first visit is mandatory.
Air's Rock is the singlemost reason I never finished Golden Sun 2. I love Golden Sun 1 to bits and replay it a lot, but every time I finish Air's Rock in 2 I'm like "Yeah, no thanks. I don't want to do this any more." It gives me an impression that the future dungeons are only going to get worse than that one since it's so early in the game.
Most of the other ones aren't as bad as Air's Rock, however, Ankohl Ruins does give it a run for its money.
You are missing out.
GBA port of Tales of Phantasia, Morlia mineshaft is nothing but suffering.
#3 - Oof... I honestly didn't hate the Mother 3 one that bad, this is the only on the GBA list at least that I remember hating... a freaking escort mission like this... Everyone hates escort missions man. XD Shit, it makes no sense either compared to the games where she can actually fight... and at least Paper Mario was somewhat fun when you play as her around Bowser's Castle, except maybe the cake making crap. :p
I hate trying to get Rayqaza then having to fight him keep resting!
What if Final Fantasy 3 Advance happened if Wonderswan didn't cancelled the project? :3
#5 - Damn, this one if not #10 The Ancient Cave sounds pretty bad...
Wouldn't be a geek vid without them saying they digress when they didn't.
I think Kuroyume Castle isn't that bad if you recruited Shadow Ukon instead ofJubei, or atleast I didn't have those fixed encounters
The Sea Floor was the worst part of Mother 3, easily. I like the Salsa chapter though.
For me it was about half of the dungeons from Black Sigil.
A 99 floor randomly generated dungeon that won't let you leave until you clear it? Who posted Angband to the GBA and put it in another RPG? 😛
The biggest F U about that last dungeon it that it isn't in a real Mega Man game.
I liked this video cause it had Boktai in it! Boktai was my first and then Ruby.
What is name of the game around 0:37 - 0:40?
Magical vacation
@@davidvinc thank you!
I think Final Fantasy dungeons were funny to play although kinda hard (Final Fantasy 1 isn't that much after 4 fiends defeated) I think the worst one is from FFII