Anakin once thought he was the greatest duelist in the order, the match of Mace and Yoda. But in this instance he saw he had yet to place a foot on the same hallowed tier of mastery as master Windu and Darth Sidious.
I’ll never understand why some fans have so much trouble accepting there’s a Jedi that can take Sidious 1 on 1. And I’ll never understand why people can give him so much hate and overlook all of what Vader did because he sacrificed himself. The Jedi had been sacrificing themselves since before the war. If Vader’s sins can be forgiven then no one should even be mad at the Jedi Order as its flaws pale ridiculously in comparison.
Because Mace was 'mean' even though he wasn't and had every right to be critical of Anakin and Palpatine. Vader did a lot of terrible shit, and I sometimes think his redemption was undeserved due to how many lives he took under the banner of the Empire. Anakin wasn't misled, he wanted to believe the lies that were espoused by Palpatine. He wanted power and by the time he took Maces life he had already made his decision.
@@buntsbooksI mean GL is a very inconsistent guy was far as canon/continuity goes he originally said Luke has Anakin's potential and Vader was like 8/10 Palpatines strength. The fact he gave TCW special treatment with canon was probably the worst case I can draw from
@@buntsbooks Yeah but Filoni I feel like his logic is more or less what he thinks GL would want (which again prioritizes the rule of cool over a coherent universe)
Mace was willing to sacrifice his morals to save the Republic. He was a real Jedi just as much as Yoda and Qui Gon and Obi Wan. People get too hung up on him being harsh towards Anakin, but Anakin deserved the scrutiny.
Anakin would've been better off if Mace Windew, Yoda or another Jedi Master trained him. No disrespect but Obi-Wan wasn't qualified to train someone like Anakin.
@@The-Endo-SymArmorhe needed somebody to tell him no and I agree he needed somebody more adult and less enabling of his behavior. Mace was the closest to a real teacher and father figure next to Qui Gon imo.
Anakin did nothing to deserve his scrutiny. Yes he was confident in his own power, too much so, but what else do you expect? The Jedi constantly tell him that he's the chosen one, they constantly tell him how important he is to stopping the reign of the sith, and yet they do nothing but second guess him. Hold him back and whenever he tried to either give his own insight (telling Mace that Palpatine was a sith) or wanted to be treated fairly (being granted the rank of master since they deemed it necessary to become part of the council) they only doubted him and told him no even though he was only trying to help. Mace is as much of a failure as Obi-Wan was and worse of all his failure was the most fatal as it was the final straw that broke the camel's back. While I respect his warrior's spirit he was just another example of the council's hypocrisy and another failure of the Jedi's part that lead to their own destruction. Qui-Gon truly is the only real Jedi amongst them and he died when Anakin needed him most. It's tragic but it's all self compounding.
Mace wasn't sacrificing his morals to save the Republic. He was doing what was right! He controls the courts and the senate, he is too dangerous to be left alive. As well, he murdered 3 of Mace Jedi friends right in front of Mace.
@@LokiTheCleverMaybe. But the gap in power is really quite large, and Cognus was very likely defeated in combat by a much weaker Sith lord than Sidious, whom Mace was matching. Plus, Mace has hax of his own, like Shatterpoint.
Honestly, I'm in the camp that believes Mace won this fight fair and square. Vaapad is Sith kryptonite. BUT....Sidious won the war. The Sith had evolved into something that didn't even need to win "battles" anymore.
Palps was like Anakin needs one more push, I'll stop the lightning and pretend to be weak so the Jedi will show their true colors. He did not lose the fight as Lucas said. If that was true, he should've spoken to Stover about the scene structure.
Dude If George said mace won then that is canon. This book and its implications are non canon. Palpatine lost to a superior swordsman but won due to is superior cunning.
Sidious was more powerful then Mace and a superior lightsaber duelist too even if only moderately with the force and slightly with a blade but Mace had the hax that Sids did not see coming with Vaapad and Shatterpoint that not even Yoda had. That and Mace brought three other skilled fighters with him to begin with if Mace came by himself like Yoda did I doubt he would of lasted long yeah.
Oh don’t be ridiculous. Those other three “Jedi” died in seconds. They didn’t hinder the fight whatsoever. Vapaad and Shatterpoint won Mace the duel. Did he win overall? No not really as Sidious didn’t use the force like he did with Yoda. Mace still disarmed him though and that’s what George Lucas means by he won
@@EliasX23Sidious did use the force against mace like he did with yoda, he tried to use his force lightning against mace and mace deflected it back to sidious and injured him, yoda couldn’t do that to sidious
@@GeniusInventor-dj5zc Mace had his lightsaber and he wasn’t going full force. This is evident when Sidious pretended to be weak but then randomly shouted “unlimited power” once Anakin finally turned shooting his lightning again. There is in no circumstance Mace could use the force to stop his lightning like Yoda did.
@@EliasX23 the novelization of ROTS said both sidious and mace were cutting loose and destroying everything in the chancellors office in seconds moving like blurs. Anakin couldn’t even keep up with their combat speed and never thought palpatine and mace were on that level of power. Sidious fought for his life against mace and mace was enveloped in the force letting it take over, his vapaad overpowered sidious and mace found the right shatterpoints against him. Mace could sense sidious was afraid thru the force so sidious was serious. It was even stated mace’s vapaad immediately came back when deflecting sidious lightning, and realized sidious was not afraid anymore because his shatterpoint brcame anakin after he knew he could not beat mace in their duel. It was mace’s expert use in vapaad that stopped sidious lighting attacks, those same attacks that turn the some of the best force users into dust and even managed to finish off vader with a few seconds of being electrocuted by it
HMMM! So the mass of people under the Empire was better after they took over! Your the one was delusional! The planet of Alderan was completely destroyed by the Empire. If the Death Star 1 and 2 wasn't destroyed by Luke and then the Rebels, more plants would have been totally or partially destroyed by the Empire for not bowing down to them! You can call can it Republic control if you choose too!
Anakin once thought he was the greatest duelist in the order, the match of Mace and Yoda. But in this instance he saw he had yet to place a foot on the same hallowed tier of mastery as master Windu and Darth Sidious.
I’ll never understand why some fans have so much trouble accepting there’s a Jedi that can take Sidious 1 on 1. And I’ll never understand why people can give him so much hate and overlook all of what Vader did because he sacrificed himself. The Jedi had been sacrificing themselves since before the war. If Vader’s sins can be forgiven then no one should even be mad at the Jedi Order as its flaws pale ridiculously in comparison.
Because Mace was 'mean' even though he wasn't and had every right to be critical of Anakin and Palpatine. Vader did a lot of terrible shit, and I sometimes think his redemption was undeserved due to how many lives he took under the banner of the Empire. Anakin wasn't misled, he wanted to believe the lies that were espoused by Palpatine. He wanted power and by the time he took Maces life he had already made his decision.
George Lucas himself even confirmed that Mace Windu won fair and square. And YET, fans still refuse to believe it.
@@buntsbooksI mean GL is a very inconsistent guy was far as canon/continuity goes he originally said Luke has Anakin's potential and Vader was like 8/10 Palpatines strength. The fact he gave TCW special treatment with canon was probably the worst case I can draw from
@@LokiTheClever Not only Lucas, but it was also Filoni. Maybe most of it, in fact.
@@buntsbooks Yeah but Filoni I feel like his logic is more or less what he thinks GL would want (which again prioritizes the rule of cool over a coherent universe)
Mace was willing to sacrifice his morals to save the Republic. He was a real Jedi just as much as Yoda and Qui Gon and Obi Wan. People get too hung up on him being harsh towards Anakin, but Anakin deserved the scrutiny.
Anakin would've been better off if Mace Windew, Yoda or another Jedi Master trained him. No disrespect but Obi-Wan wasn't qualified to train someone like Anakin.
@@The-Endo-SymArmorhe needed somebody to tell him no and I agree he needed somebody more adult and less enabling of his behavior. Mace was the closest to a real teacher and father figure next to Qui Gon imo.
No one even wanted Anakin in the order to begin with.@@The-Endo-SymArmor
Anakin did nothing to deserve his scrutiny. Yes he was confident in his own power, too much so, but what else do you expect? The Jedi constantly tell him that he's the chosen one, they constantly tell him how important he is to stopping the reign of the sith, and yet they do nothing but second guess him. Hold him back and whenever he tried to either give his own insight (telling Mace that Palpatine was a sith) or wanted to be treated fairly (being granted the rank of master since they deemed it necessary to become part of the council) they only doubted him and told him no even though he was only trying to help. Mace is as much of a failure as Obi-Wan was and worse of all his failure was the most fatal as it was the final straw that broke the camel's back.
While I respect his warrior's spirit he was just another example of the council's hypocrisy and another failure of the Jedi's part that lead to their own destruction. Qui-Gon truly is the only real Jedi amongst them and he died when Anakin needed him most. It's tragic but it's all self compounding.
Mace wasn't sacrificing his morals to save the Republic. He was doing what was right! He controls the courts and the senate, he is too dangerous to be left alive. As well, he murdered 3 of Mace Jedi friends right in front of Mace.
“Fool… _FOOL!_ do you think the fear you feel is *MINE?!”*
Would have been amazing to hear that quote in the film
@@sdaftermath123 Oh god I’d give anything for them to turn this into a proper audio drama with Ian as Palpatine again.
I need to hear it in a film with real actors !!!! Disney why
Not tap into um what ALL the fans want?? To spite them?? Wild
Nice! Hearing the lightsabers move so fast as it clash is insane.
Thanks for this. Mace was matching the most powerful Sith Lord in history. I have no doubt that Mace could beat Bane or any Banite Sith.
I mean Darth Cognus had hax that could disrupt Windus connection and thus ability to rely on Vaapad
@@LokiTheCleverMaybe. But the gap in power is really quite large, and Cognus was very likely defeated in combat by a much weaker Sith lord than Sidious, whom Mace was matching. Plus, Mace has hax of his own, like Shatterpoint.
@Senate917 In comparison to Mace and Sidious? Yes. Like Mace wouldn't even need to try.
Man, Mace Windu is just the GOAT. What a badass.
Indeed. Samuel L. Jackson even said it himself. "I'm like the second baddest Jedi in the universe next to Yoda."
Honestly, I'm in the camp that believes Mace won this fight fair and square. Vaapad is Sith kryptonite. BUT....Sidious won the war. The Sith had evolved into something that didn't even need to win "battles" anymore.
@@shanechesnut I believe George Lucas once said that Mace Windu beat Palpatine fair and square.
@@buntsbooksyep
Oh god this scene is so much more pf mace. My love fought everyone, the dark side, himself and palpatine
Shatterpoint which Matthew Stover also penned helps you understand this so much better
I don't care about the movies, only legends.
I care about George's 6 films and Legends.
Palps was like Anakin needs one more push, I'll stop the lightning and pretend to be weak so the Jedi will show their true colors. He did not lose the fight as Lucas said. If that was true, he should've spoken to Stover about the scene structure.
Dude If George said mace won then that is canon. This book and its implications are non canon. Palpatine lost to a superior swordsman but won due to is superior cunning.
@@lcjones0710EXACTLY but allow them to continue to deny that. They just don't want to give Mace his respect.
@@lcjones0710 Bro, by this point. The whole "Canon and not canon" doesn't mean A thing.
Hurts you a black Jedi was superior 😂
@@illapuproductions meds, shill
10:10
3:16
Sidious was more powerful then Mace and a superior lightsaber duelist too even if only moderately with the force and slightly with a blade but Mace had the hax that Sids did not see coming with Vaapad and Shatterpoint that not even Yoda had. That and Mace brought three other skilled fighters with him to begin with if Mace came by himself like Yoda did I doubt he would of lasted long yeah.
Keep being a hater , Lucas said mace won fair and square
Oh don’t be ridiculous. Those other three “Jedi” died in seconds. They didn’t hinder the fight whatsoever. Vapaad and Shatterpoint won Mace the duel. Did he win overall? No not really as Sidious didn’t use the force like he did with Yoda. Mace still disarmed him though and that’s what George Lucas means by he won
@@EliasX23Sidious did use the force against mace like he did with yoda, he tried to use his force lightning against mace and mace deflected it back to sidious and injured him, yoda couldn’t do that to sidious
@@GeniusInventor-dj5zc Mace had his lightsaber and he wasn’t going full force. This is evident when Sidious pretended to be weak but then randomly shouted “unlimited power” once Anakin finally turned shooting his lightning again. There is in no circumstance Mace could use the force to stop his lightning like Yoda did.
@@EliasX23 the novelization of ROTS said both sidious and mace were cutting loose and destroying everything in the chancellors office in seconds moving like blurs. Anakin couldn’t even keep up with their combat speed and never thought palpatine and mace were on that level of power. Sidious fought for his life against mace and mace was enveloped in the force letting it take over, his vapaad overpowered sidious and mace found the right shatterpoints against him. Mace could sense sidious was afraid thru the force so sidious was serious. It was even stated mace’s vapaad immediately came back when deflecting sidious lightning, and realized sidious was not afraid anymore because his shatterpoint brcame anakin after he knew he could not beat mace in their duel. It was mace’s expert use in vapaad that stopped sidious lighting attacks, those same attacks that turn the some of the best force users into dust and even managed to finish off vader with a few seconds of being electrocuted by it
Windu really was delusional. He was fighting for the rights of people to live as they wanted? No, he was fighting for Republic control.
HMMM! So the mass of people under the Empire was better after they took over! Your the one was delusional! The planet of Alderan was completely destroyed by the Empire. If the Death Star 1 and 2 wasn't destroyed by Luke and then the Rebels, more plants would have been totally or partially destroyed by the Empire for not bowing down to them! You can call can it Republic control if you choose too!
From my point of view Republic control is evil.
shut up Sidious
@@kubapiwowarczyk599 Mace an the rest of the Jedi refused to admit, that their bloved Republic became a tyranny.
Democracy's a heck of a drug.